A video talking about drivability, torque curves, boost RPM, etc would be great and useful for street ability discussions, instead of just focusing max power, which is useful for straight line drag racing.
Doing the lord's work out here by making this video. Thank you Kern. I was considering a top mount turbo, but I think the DAW R 6 port turbo seems like a good one without having to bump up to a top mount.
@@cameronrussell9362 remember you can use an OTS map in case you aren’t able to custom tune it right away. I ran an MHD stage 2+ OTS map on it for at least 2/3 months before finally getting my custom tune
@@b16dans not at first, with the first couple of revisions. After that yes!, I need some better tires now since I spin up to 4th gear. I'm waiting on some r888's to see if that helps.
@@M240_ perfect bro. i plan to get the flow max v2.5 and i plan to run the bm3 stage 2+ ots map before i get my base map, which wont take long. how were your logs? what fueling?
One point is that Pure doesn't release any info and keeps it close to the chest, and even pays out failures to keep the owners quiet. DAW had a bad rep a few years ago being rebranded chinesium but has proven itself on this platform and has about the same durability compared to Pure. One big point to DAW is that they use a Mar-M turbine wheel. That's a HUGE plus especially with burble tunes as the upper temp limit is higher compared to Inconel.
Can you go into each turbos resistance to antilag? As in, do any of them have superior thermal protection, or other things that would make it more durable when using antilag?
Its more how much you use it, and at what boost. Higher hp is higher stress on stuff when you take off. But I mean thats not scaring anyone off that wasn't already scared off. If you launch the car thats more stress on drivetrain than launching it while moving so I mean. Id say pull it out at meets or important races and call it a day
Hi Kern amazing video btw much help. I have a Bmw 440 running today Steg 2+ with e50, I run that Setup the entire summer it’s fine but I want more. Looking forward next summer to go for a turbo upgrade goals are around 600+whp which turbo do u suggest? I’m thinking either turbo system steg 2 or DAW 2,5?
Can you make a video on how to get a RWD car to have better traction? All the X drive guys can click off crazy numbers from a dig but we need info on how to get the RWD cars to take off.
my traction has improved by moving to a bigger tyre and i have an lsd but i still cant get better than 3.8 0-60 on draggy, what is the best driving mode for 0-60s? (m240i)
I'm more of a time attack guy. So I'll just use 93octane to drive the car, no e85, meth or anything. So with the normal 93 octane, which turbo that it can make the most hp and better response？ Thank you very much
Great video. I’m wondering if I can pick your brain a bit, my wgdc is 99% and I already have gotten a smoke test and there were no leaks found, I also ran on a very low boost map and it still read 99%. What could it be? I’d figure if something was wrong with the wastegate it would throw a cel if it didn’t calibrate correctly
At what point do you think we’d need a built motor, and would you say the Vargas gc if not planing on a built motor? I feel like 650-700’s is pushing stock block.
Would it be “safer” to have parts capable of big power and only tune for my goal of about 600 whp? So going ds2, flowmax, and port meth would have a lot of potential, but I wouldn’t need it to hit the goal. Could it be a safety percussion for daily drivability?
Headroom doesn't really do much unless you're worried your tune is going to be unstable. Any competent tuner can tune within the safe limits of a given setup. Imo it's better to get a tuner than throw parts at your build to cover up potential issues
@@kern417 appreciate the feedback, saves me $. Guess I should research the capabilities and flaws of all my setup options. Is there any insightful threads on the forums you know of off hand?
What would happen if you just pulled the stock turbo and put in one of these others without putting a bigger hpfp or adjusting the tune? Would it make more power? Would it be running lean?
In terms of the different Turbos ability to support higher HPs like Vargas vs P800, does which turbo matter if it’s just on pump gas? They all have a limitation on pump, so if I’m planning on staying on pump, should I get the cheaper GC? Because I’ll never be able to maximise p800’s capabilities. Please advise Broski
does the car get all torque steerish with all of these or does that depend more on the tune? I'd like to replace my turbo soon since I'm past the 100k and I'd rather put in the DAW but, I don't want to have the car trying to hit parked cars or oncoming traffic when I get on it.
Just like anything else it depends on the setup. If you floor it in 1st with dsc off and all season tires it'll fish tail. If you set up you car properly with sticky tires then it'll drive fine. Just need to gauge your expectations and understand more power requires some responsibility with the pedal.
@kern417 Question, Does the vargas GC have the same spooling time as the original turbo? I want an improvement but I dont want to lose the low rpm power of oem b58. thank u
I’m trying to run a safe high 500hp-600hp what turbo would you suggest without pushing any component to its limit and what type of fuel pump could I use?
Hey there - it's 1 year later since you posted this - is there any updated recommendations on hybrid turbos? Any new options? What is currently the best hybrid turbo option?
Thank you for the video. I came from germany. What moods i need for 550hp? Catless downpipe, hpfp tu and one of these turbos. I want run 98 octane (europe).
Hello I just installed a pure 800 and a stage two Dortch fuel pump and I’m running MHD tuning and a catless downpipe, I’m wanting to know if I need anything else to make my turbo it’s peak only in pump gas , I only have 91 octane in my area and want to keep it in pump gas . Also, when I tuned it, I didn’t see the option on where you input on the MHD tune to let the ecu know it has hybrid turbo now
@kern417 This guy was around long before B58s were a thing and there's plenty of info out there talking about his reliability issues and customer support. And yes, I'm on the forums where he's a part of the dialog and he'll post dyno figures that show him outperforming pure800’s. The guy is shady, at best.
I've just ordered a dynamic autowerx ultra flow-R gen 2. But now I'm concerned with daws reliability. Since it's a new turbo anything to be worried about with daws?
@@kern417 thanks kerns. Going to be installing it on my mkvTU supra. Plans for a conservative 600whp jeff payne tune. Femto bm3 unlock, intake+charge pipe, 4.5"less dp, flex fuel kit, lpfp, port injection spacers. But with stock exhaust to save some cash. Anything you would change or add to support a turbo like this. It was a stupid impulse buy with the ultraflowR but wanted a turbo that could carry me to 800.
@@kern417 how about on pump gas? Ive heard that the 800 sometimes cant go above 500hp with pump gas and it concernes me. Because I also want at least 525-575 hp/tq. I was gonna get the gc+ based on last years video but it seems thats not the way to go?
@@kern417 Thats perfect for me. A nice safety ceiling for dd. Do you think a flowmax system could hit around there with a hpfp and downpipe? Its the first ive heard of that turbo but it looks good. Thanks for all the help you bring to this community btw. its much appreciated by many people :)
Cool, what should I ask for to just "wake it up"? Runs great but if a tune can make it run better I'm all in. Thank you so much for sharing your advice. I figured you'd DEFINITELY give some sound advice. 👍 I'm a new subscriber to your channel and totally shocked about your level of knowledge in these B58 motors.
@@kern417 bet, I’m planning on building a sleeper DAW Flowmax 2.5+ with a TU pump and shooting for 600hp and 580ftlb on 93. Any advice? I love your videos super informative, I think I only need to upgrade my clutch and heat exchanger to support it
@@kern417 Hopefully I can provide some more logs on the forums to help more people decide for or against GC+. I originally reached out to Odin but he did not want to tune it.
Maybe this B58 Hybrid Turbo from MPS-Engineering (Germany) is interesting! This MPS GR700 seems to have faster spool and more flow. ruclips.net/video/wxmdoVVhOL8/видео.html
What would be the difference between a Hybrid vs Full Frame turbo kits for 93 pump gas only? Since peak hp would mostly likely be similar, would a full frame turbo kit still be faster? Like 100-200 time and 1/4 mile? Thanks!
@@kern417 Would you be able to make a video on how to get the most performance out of the b58 with only 93 octane for those who don't have access to meth or e85? Like selecting turbo sizes and kits.
As always another great video by kern. I’m happy you made this for people who cannot stop comparing pure800s to daw when they are both great options.
Exactly. Thanks for the support
Super informative video, as always. Thanks Kevin! I was eating Chipotle for lunch while watching this, must have been fate.
A video talking about drivability, torque curves, boost RPM, etc would be great and useful for street ability discussions, instead of just focusing max power, which is useful for straight line drag racing.
They're all similar
Doing the lord's work out here by making this video. Thank you Kern. I was considering a top mount turbo, but I think the DAW R 6 port turbo seems like a good one without having to bump up to a top mount.
Glad to help
@@kern417 Do you think the DAW Flowmax would be more reliable than a Pure 850 which keeps the oem turbo housing?
they should have comparable reliability
What are the chances that I’m in this exact predicament and was watching your old vids trying to decide.
I have the Pure800 and it’s awesome!
My Pure800 goes in next week!❤
@@cameronrussell9362 remember you can use an OTS map in case you aren’t able to custom tune it right away. I ran an MHD stage 2+ OTS map on it for at least 2/3 months before finally getting my custom tune
@@M240_ did you notice a big step up with the custom tune?
@@b16dans not at first, with the first couple of revisions. After that yes!, I need some better tires now since I spin up to 4th gear. I'm waiting on some r888's to see if that helps.
@@M240_ perfect bro. i plan to get the flow max v2.5 and i plan to run the bm3 stage 2+ ots map before i get my base map, which wont take long. how were your logs? what fueling?
This is super informative, thank you!
Oh yeah waiting on that one👍
One point is that Pure doesn't release any info and keeps it close to the chest, and even pays out failures to keep the owners quiet. DAW had a bad rep a few years ago being rebranded chinesium but has proven itself on this platform and has about the same durability compared to Pure. One big point to DAW is that they use a Mar-M turbine wheel. That's a HUGE plus especially with burble tunes as the upper temp limit is higher compared to Inconel.
Gc vargas the best for price💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🚀
You videos are so good stuff man... where's your location???
Ohio
Can you go into each turbos resistance to antilag? As in, do any of them have superior thermal protection, or other things that would make it more durable when using antilag?
I don't see anything that would be much different in that department
Its more how much you use it, and at what boost. Higher hp is higher stress on stuff when you take off. But I mean thats not scaring anyone off that wasn't already scared off. If you launch the car thats more stress on drivetrain than launching it while moving so I mean. Id say pull it out at meets or important races and call it a day
Hi Kern amazing video btw much help. I have a Bmw 440 running today Steg 2+ with e50, I run that Setup the entire summer it’s fine but I want more. Looking forward next summer to go for a turbo upgrade goals are around 600+whp which turbo do u suggest? I’m thinking either turbo system steg 2 or DAW 2,5?
either of those should work great. just depends on your budget.
Can you make a video on how to get a RWD car to have better traction? All the X drive guys can click off crazy numbers from a dig but we need info on how to get the RWD cars to take off.
Yes coming soon
my traction has improved by moving to a bigger tyre and i have an lsd but i still cant get better than 3.8 0-60 on draggy, what is the best driving mode for 0-60s? (m240i)
ruclips.net/video/ycrkg6QvYdQ/видео.html
Core charge? So basically you send them your turbo and they send you another turbo or do they upgrade the tuebo you send them?
Random question I can’t seem to find the answer but could you tell me if there is such thing as a hybrid turbo with a T51R mod ?
not that i've seen but there should be soon
Do you also recommend the TurboSystems Stage 1 hybrid turbo?
I'm looking for a small turbo for like 550hp and oem-like responsivness.
It's probably ok but i haven't seen any info on it
@@kern417
Ok, thanks anyway 👍🏻
I'm more of a time attack guy. So I'll just use 93octane to drive the car, no e85, meth or anything. So with the normal 93 octane, which turbo that it can make the most hp and better response？ Thank you very much
Most hp won't have the best response. It's a tradeoff. But none of the hybrids spool poorly
🔥
Great video. I’m wondering if I can pick your brain a bit, my wgdc is 99% and I already have gotten a smoke test and there were no leaks found, I also ran on a very low boost map and it still read 99%. What could it be? I’d figure if something was wrong with the wastegate it would throw a cel if it didn’t calibrate correctly
check for exhaust leaks
So the wastegate stays at 99% when not in boost right?
@@davenguyen564 yea, now that I’m looking at the log again it’s only 99% when not in boost, may be an exhaust leak as kern said
At what point do you think we’d need a built motor, and would you say the Vargas gc if not planing on a built motor? I feel like 650-700’s is pushing stock block.
ruclips.net/video/b9DJEtAiDK0/видео.html
@@kern417 ok, I see you. Ig 650 is my target goal then. Flow max or vargas gc? Don’t need an overkill turbo.
Flowmax
@@kern417 the v2.5 correct?
Yeah
Would it be “safer” to have parts capable of big power and only tune for my goal of about 600 whp? So going ds2, flowmax, and port meth would have a lot of potential, but I wouldn’t need it to hit the goal. Could it be a safety percussion for daily drivability?
Headroom doesn't really do much unless you're worried your tune is going to be unstable. Any competent tuner can tune within the safe limits of a given setup. Imo it's better to get a tuner than throw parts at your build to cover up potential issues
@@kern417 appreciate the feedback, saves me $. Guess I should research the capabilities and flaws of all my setup options. Is there any insightful threads on the forums you know of off hand?
@@PoorlyUtilized what are you focused on? Just fueling?
@@kern417 yep, no E85 close by and still waiting for flex fuel support
A dorch stage 2 will be all you need
What would happen if you just pulled the stock turbo and put in one of these others without putting a bigger hpfp or adjusting the tune? Would it make more power? Would it be running lean?
It wont make more Power
In terms of the different Turbos ability to support higher HPs like Vargas vs P800, does which turbo matter if it’s just on pump gas? They all have a limitation on pump, so if I’m planning on staying on pump, should I get the cheaper GC? Because I’ll never be able to maximise p800’s capabilities. Please advise Broski
full hybrids will make more on pump than only cold-side replacements like the GC.
does the car get all torque steerish with all of these or does that depend more on the tune? I'd like to replace my turbo soon since I'm past the 100k and I'd rather put in the DAW but, I don't want to have the car trying to hit parked cars or oncoming traffic when I get on it.
Just like anything else it depends on the setup. If you floor it in 1st with dsc off and all season tires it'll fish tail. If you set up you car properly with sticky tires then it'll drive fine. Just need to gauge your expectations and understand more power requires some responsibility with the pedal.
@kern417 Question, Does the vargas GC have the same spooling time as the original turbo? I want an improvement but I dont want to lose the low rpm power of oem b58. thank u
It'll be the closest of the hybrid turbos
Is the DAW “ultra flow” considered a stage 2 turbo or is the DAW “flow max” a stage 2?
I see more people recommending the ultra flow vs the flow max
Stage 2 turbo isn't really a thing anymore. But ultra flow is larger and supports more power than flowmax.
I’m trying to run a safe high 500hp-600hp what turbo would you suggest without pushing any component to its limit and what type of fuel pump could I use?
Any upgraded turbo can hit that on an ethanol mix. Gc would be the cheapest
Can you run say a upgraded hpfp with one of these turbos and just use a OTS map?
ruclips.net/video/fnTIyh5zMbU/видео.html
Hey there - it's 1 year later since you posted this - is there any updated recommendations on hybrid turbos? Any new options? What is currently the best hybrid turbo option?
honestly still mostly the same recommendations. there are a few new options out there that need some long term reviews
DAW is the best bang for your buck, still to many people that have problems with the Pure turbo.
Thank you for the video. I came from germany. What moods i need for 550hp?
Catless downpipe, hpfp tu and one of these turbos.
I want run 98 octane (europe).
A full frame turbo kit
Hello I just installed a pure 800 and a stage two Dortch fuel pump and I’m running MHD tuning and a catless downpipe, I’m wanting to know if I need anything else to make my turbo it’s peak only in pump gas , I only have 91 octane in my area and want to keep it in pump gas . Also, when I tuned it, I didn’t see the option on where you input on the MHD tune to let the ecu know it has hybrid turbo now
do not run any upgraded turbo on any ots map. You need a custom tune
What are the supporting mods that are needed for a DAW to push 28-30 psi??
hpfp upgrade and ethanol
May you please make an update to this video 👌🙏🏽🫡
Would TU pump work with the FLOmax 2.5 or do you need DS2
It just depends on your goals
ruclips.net/video/5XXZ-Anokmg/видео.html
What’s the best for when I hit the gas I get stuck to the seat :))
Good slap for asking silly questions would be good start
Vargas is reliable? Not according to the forums lol. You want a hybrid,I recommend going anywhere but there.
You're obviously not watching the B58 forums like everyone else
@kern417 This guy was around long before B58s were a thing and there's plenty of info out there talking about his reliability issues and customer support. And yes, I'm on the forums where he's a part of the dialog and he'll post dyno figures that show him outperforming pure800’s. The guy is shady, at best.
@@BFlood4471 like I said in the video, none of that matters in relation to the B58 turbos. Find me evidence of blown GCs and then we can talk.
@kern417 sure thing buddy.. just hope you're viewers have enough wherewithal to do their own research and not take your word as gospel.
@@BFlood4471 too late
I've just ordered a dynamic autowerx ultra flow-R gen 2. But now I'm concerned with daws reliability. Since it's a new turbo anything to be worried about with daws?
They are generally solid turbos. I wouldn't worry
@@kern417 thanks kerns. Going to be installing it on my mkvTU supra. Plans for a conservative 600whp jeff payne tune. Femto bm3 unlock, intake+charge pipe, 4.5"less dp, flex fuel kit, lpfp, port injection spacers. But with stock exhaust to save some cash. Anything you would change or add to support a turbo like this. It was a stupid impulse buy with the ultraflowR but wanted a turbo that could carry me to 800.
You probably won't need the lpfp but it won't hurt.
I also recommend an xhp transmission tune
Seriously asking. What is hybrid turbo means tho? are those still running twin-scroll in it or what?
it is a modified stock turbo to fit a higher flowing wheel. many modern hybrids replicate the same design but they're built with brand new cast units.
@@kern417 are those hybird turbos still had twin-scroll in it(just like stock)? thanks for replying btw man, Ive been binging yours video. Great stuff
Yes
I have gen1 would I be able to get a gc and upgrade to a tu pump ?
Sure
Which turbo would you recommend for 550whp? I need more top end power
All of them can reach that
@@kern417 how about on pump gas? Ive heard that the 800 sometimes cant go above 500hp with pump gas and it concernes me. Because I also want at least 525-575 hp/tq. I was gonna get the gc+ based on last years video but it seems thats not the way to go?
@@captainminecraftist hybrids are limited to around 550 on pump gas. some people have gotten more but it's not typical.
@@kern417 Thats perfect for me. A nice safety ceiling for dd. Do you think a flowmax system could hit around there with a hpfp and downpipe? Its the first ive heard of that turbo but it looks good. Thanks for all the help you bring to this community btw. its much appreciated by many people :)
Yes
Can I just get a tune on my "stocker" and benefit from it? Thanks
Sure
Cool, what should I ask for to just "wake it up"? Runs great but if a tune can make it run better I'm all in. Thank you so much for sharing your advice. I figured you'd DEFINITELY give some sound advice. 👍
I'm a new subscriber to your channel and totally shocked about your level of knowledge in these B58 motors.
Basically any stage 1 tune is designed for completely stock hardware. So just pick your preferred tuning platform and flash away
@@kern417 much appreciated thanks
Am I right in saying purchasing a Pure800 would be a waste of money if I were to only run on pump fuel (99 RON) since it's not being fully utilised?
ruclips.net/video/DBGZ_MZA5Rc/видео.html
Are all of these still twinscroll turbos?
Yes
@@kern417 bet, I’m planning on building a sleeper DAW Flowmax 2.5+ with a TU pump and shooting for 600hp and 580ftlb on 93. Any advice? I love your videos super informative, I think I only need to upgrade my clutch and heat exchanger to support it
You probably won't get 600 on a DAW without ethanol.
You were correct lol@@kern417
Can I use 850 on gen1 b58?
Yes
well too late, I bought a GC+ and will get it tuned by Paul Johnson on Pump gas. So lets see how we do.
No worries
@@kern417 Hopefully I can provide some more logs on the forums to help more people decide for or against GC+. I originally reached out to Odin but he did not want to tune it.
What power did you make
@@Addselwyn Sold the GC+ (never installed it) and am receiving a pure850 in a couple of weeks.
@@DamnDudeGetaLife hello mate, can I ask why you chose to sell the GC+ without installing it first?
Cheers,
Ant.
you not including VTT in this?
Did you watch the video?
Maybe this B58 Hybrid Turbo from MPS-Engineering (Germany) is interesting!
This MPS GR700 seems to have faster spool and more flow.
ruclips.net/video/wxmdoVVhOL8/видео.html
What would be the difference between a Hybrid vs Full Frame turbo kits for 93 pump gas only? Since peak hp would mostly likely be similar, would a full frame turbo kit still be faster? Like 100-200 time and 1/4 mile? Thanks!
Many Full frame turbos can make more power on the same fuel
@@kern417 Would you be able to make a video on how to get the most performance out of the b58 with only 93 octane for those who don't have access to meth or e85? Like selecting turbo sizes and kits.
Yes
@@kern417 Awesome thank you!
@@kern417 have I missed the video you mentioned making in this comment?