Regarding the June 1943 comments from Mark at 13:00 This is the time of complete turmoil within the 8th Air Force, British Bomber Command, and the "training" of the crews in actual combat. British bomber command was insistent the Americans move to "night bombing" Remember - the crews, the American and British public, were all told that these machines were "Flying Fortresses". Yet the reality was that survival from mission to mission was 40% in the summer of 1943. Doctrines, even the "combat box" was changed multiple times based on the "SMALL" percentage of missions due to the losses sustained. In a "secret" memorandum (publicly posted after the war) over 45% of the damage done in every early missions was due to ammunition waste (spent shell castings) being dropped out of planes - damaging the planes behind and lower than them.
Great review. I to wished they had started with crews being trained. Would have allowed for the secondary characters to be developed but maybe that’s because not that many secondary characters survive
14:03 To be fair that is more a trope of Avation fiction then a bad choice in the story telling... Why? Because when depicting an airwar especly as iconic as this it honestly does not matter like did Tom Gun 1 ever actually explain the siutain in the world at that time?
11:18 Their are a few ways.... one way is to have characters who are out of danger like a commander, a fighter pilot, a family members and tell have them narrative the whole show or something I would have preferred ... Make it about a frame or a squadron not the people and have no single person last though the shows run but the bomber lasts till the modern day.
Thanks! If ya'll decide to re-fight a B-17 mission over Germany, may I suggest Wings of Glory WW2. Nicely pre-painted minis and really playable and realistic rules.
Getting ready to sit down to Episode 4. Gotta say, Episode 3 had to be the most heartbreaking thing I've ever witnessed on TV. This show is turning into a two-drink-minimum per episode affair for me.
Regarding training for aircrews often it was MANY training locations one for basic, one for mechanical and one for gunnery was very usual for pilots even more. I can imagine this was a decider in showing the training or not.
Thanks for the video. So far I like the series even though I don't generally play or read about just the air war. I agree that more of where in the war the bombing campaign was would have been helpful, though I wonder how much the the actual bomber crews knew beyond what was released in the news. Probably the Wing Commanders knew the big picture, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the squadrons knew nothing of their missions until the briefing right before they flew for operational security issues. Loose lips lose B-17s.
Not accurate. The entire US Army air corps (all theaters) loss less than Army, Navy and Marine Corp in ground combat operations in the Pacific theatre. Not to take away from the army air corp but your statement is not accurate.
Same, I've never seen a wargame solely about being strategic Bomber crew during WW2... I have seen plenty of video games on the topic however so it would be nice to see their take on it!
I agree with you all about the portrayal of the combat footage, and technical details, very good. However ! the acting was disappointing, very 'Super Hero' in other words 'superficial' and even a bit cheesy ! and sorry guys, the portrayal of the RAF was pathetic and insulting to a Brit and the RAF, a bit like the portrayal of Napoleon by Ridley Scott. IMO
As a Brit, I don’t believe anyone from the RAF would call out USAAF personnel in a pub for day bombing 🫤 That scene was just anti Brit caricature. Overall, the actors here seem to be actors, not immersed like BoB.
Indeed. The RAF v USAAF difference could easily have been portrayed without the cliché stereotyping and portraying of the RAF men being snooty, condescending arseholes making out they randomly bombed Germany without any thoughts or plans and didnt care what they hit. Then the Braveheart like dialogue in Scotland. Sigh. I thought the Germans were supposed to be the enemy.
Yeah, that was kinda dirty. I think they were trying to allude the doctrinal differences of the top brass that was going on at the time. I think a narrator would have been a better media for this than a barfight.
As a Canadian with family who served in the British military during the war, and as somebody with an extensive knowledge and love of ww2 history, it was very common for fighting men from different nations and even different units within the same militaries to say dumb shit to get a rise out of each other. Hell, it was common for men of the 82nd airborne to ask soldiers from the 101st airborne “What’s that eagle screaming for? Help, help!” to start pub brawls. It happens.
@@matthewgill8332yes, I get that, but this portrayal was a ham fisted caricature and the RAF officer who wanted a fight looked like the last person who should ask for one. Anyway, big respect to 🇨🇦 , I was reading about the battle of the Schelt the other day. Often overlooked.
@@matthewgill8332 It was far more common for them to act like allies and be friendly and respectful to each other otherwise the war would never have been won if the allies did nothing but bitch and fight against each other. Shame the series chose not to show what was more likely and instead went down the silly route, complete with stereotypical portrayals.
Hate to rain on the parade but while I agree the depictions of the combat, the ground crews, the work of the air crews is fantastic, it feels flat as a drama and is nowhere near the quality of Band of Brothers or The Pacific. It's a bronze to those two gold medals. Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and look forward to seeing the wargame.
Regarding the June 1943 comments from Mark at 13:00
This is the time of complete turmoil within the 8th Air Force, British Bomber Command, and the "training" of the crews in actual combat. British bomber command was insistent the Americans move to "night bombing"
Remember - the crews, the American and British public, were all told that these machines were "Flying Fortresses". Yet the reality was that survival from mission to mission was
40% in the summer of 1943. Doctrines, even the "combat box" was changed multiple times based on the "SMALL" percentage of missions due to the losses sustained.
In a "secret" memorandum (publicly posted after the war) over 45% of the damage done in every early missions was due to ammunition waste (spent shell castings) being dropped out of planes - damaging the planes behind and lower than them.
When Bucky mentioned that Gale (Buck) didn’t drink, smoke or gamble…
Who else was reminded of Capt. Dick Winters in B.O.B?
Great review. I to wished they had started with crews being trained. Would have allowed for the secondary characters to be developed but maybe that’s because not that many secondary characters survive
Yea 75% of men in the B-17 planes did not survive the casualty rate was insanely high for allied forces planes.
Great stuff guys. So far, so good on the series. I think BoB had a slow reaction after the first “just training episode.”
Apple TV+ has a new number one drama
14:03 To be fair that is more a trope of Avation fiction then a bad choice in the story telling... Why? Because when depicting an airwar especly as iconic as this it honestly does not matter like did Tom Gun 1 ever actually explain the siutain in the world at that time?
11:18 Their are a few ways.... one way is to have characters who are out of danger like a commander, a fighter pilot, a family members and tell have them narrative the whole show or something I would have preferred ... Make it about a frame or a squadron not the people and have no single person last though the shows run but the bomber lasts till the modern day.
Thanks! If ya'll decide to re-fight a B-17 mission over Germany, may I suggest Wings of Glory WW2. Nicely pre-painted minis and really playable and realistic rules.
Great reactions‼️ But, if you watch part 1&2 again I think some of the questions you had would be answered .
Getting ready to sit down to Episode 4. Gotta say, Episode 3 had to be the most heartbreaking thing I've ever witnessed on TV. This show is turning into a two-drink-minimum per episode affair for me.
Regarding training for aircrews often it was MANY training locations one for basic, one for mechanical and one for gunnery was very usual for pilots even more. I can imagine this was a decider in showing the training or not.
"Masters of the Air" most beloved TV series in Great Britain since "Band of Brothers"! 😂😂😂
Thanks for the video. So far I like the series even though I don't generally play or read about just the air war. I agree that more of where in the war the bombing campaign was would have been helpful, though I wonder how much the the actual bomber crews knew beyond what was released in the news. Probably the Wing Commanders knew the big picture, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the squadrons knew nothing of their missions until the briefing right before they flew for operational security issues. Loose lips lose B-17s.
Maybe instead of Veterans, they could of used a surviving family member
Great videwo which it sounds like a great air war series!
Are you guys located in Washington dc area?
Remember that we lost more people in the air war over Germany, than we lost in all the battles in the Pacific (U.S)
Not accurate. The entire US Army air corps (all theaters) loss less than Army, Navy and Marine Corp in ground combat operations in the Pacific theatre. Not to take away from the army air corp but your statement is not accurate.
✌
Please wargame this!!!!
Same, I've never seen a wargame solely about being strategic Bomber crew during WW2... I have seen plenty of video games on the topic however so it would be nice to see their take on it!
Will do!
2:47 That 100% did happen and was a con of the that type of strategic bombing mission.
Thanks!
the missing interviews is what ive been saying since episode one.
Well alot of the men that were featured are no longer with us. So kinda hard to get interviews of those who witnessed the events.
@@amandapreston2125 wow you're so smart!
I agree with you all about the portrayal of the combat footage, and technical details, very good. However ! the acting was disappointing, very 'Super Hero' in other words 'superficial' and even a bit cheesy ! and sorry guys, the portrayal of the RAF was pathetic and insulting to a Brit and the RAF, a bit like the portrayal of Napoleon by Ridley Scott. IMO
Austin and callus put effort into their roles wtf u talking about I didn't see know one acting like superheros
As a Brit, I don’t believe anyone from the RAF would call out USAAF personnel in a pub for day bombing 🫤 That scene was just anti Brit caricature. Overall, the actors here seem to be actors, not immersed like BoB.
Indeed. The RAF v USAAF difference could easily have been portrayed without the cliché stereotyping and portraying of the RAF men being snooty, condescending arseholes making out they randomly bombed Germany without any thoughts or plans and didnt care what they hit.
Then the Braveheart like dialogue in Scotland. Sigh.
I thought the Germans were supposed to be the enemy.
Yeah, that was kinda dirty. I think they were trying to allude the doctrinal differences of the top brass that was going on at the time. I think a narrator would have been a better media for this than a barfight.
As a Canadian with family who served in the British military during the war, and as somebody with an extensive knowledge and love of ww2 history, it was very common for fighting men from different nations and even different units within the same militaries to say dumb shit to get a rise out of each other. Hell, it was common for men of the 82nd airborne to ask soldiers from the 101st airborne “What’s that eagle screaming for? Help, help!” to start pub brawls. It happens.
@@matthewgill8332yes, I get that, but this portrayal was a ham fisted caricature and the RAF officer who wanted a fight looked like the last person who should ask for one. Anyway, big respect to 🇨🇦 , I was reading about the battle of the Schelt the other day. Often overlooked.
@@matthewgill8332
It was far more common for them to act like allies and be friendly and respectful to each other otherwise the war would never have been won if the allies did nothing but bitch and fight against each other. Shame the series chose not to show what was more likely and instead went down the silly route, complete with stereotypical portrayals.
Shame on you HBO. It could have been the trifecta.
Hate to rain on the parade but while I agree the depictions of the combat, the ground crews, the work of the air crews is fantastic, it feels flat as a drama and is nowhere near the quality of Band of Brothers or The Pacific. It's a bronze to those two gold medals. Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and look forward to seeing the wargame.
I think that you are right, but in comparison the more recent historical war movies, Its a bright spot! For example, the newer Midway.