Do Tube Amps Still Matter?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Dipped In Tone has touched on the Great Amplification Wars before, but this episode is dedicated to the conflict, and to one nagging question: Do tube amps still matter?
Rhett and Zach have plenty of experience with modelers and profilers, from DI floor units to head-and-cab rigs to combos. They both readily admit that they sound killer in many contexts, and their convenience and dependability are hard to argue. So why do they think vintage valve amps still come out on top?
To answer that question, our hosts look at a range of factors, including dynamics, reactivity, and sonic fidelity. But the most important pieces are the physical feel and atmosphere that a cranked tube amp produces-it’s a nearly indescribable experience for Rhett, but watching him try is pretty entertaining. And while modelers can streamline inefficiencies, they can also create new ones, as Rhett learned during a busy day of gigging in Nashville with a pedalboard amp.
Even so, why should young players raised on digital amplification and the ease of direct-to-laptop home recording care about tube amps? Rhett and Zach make an impassioned, considered case for their favorite and most flexible tube boom boxes, modeling be damned. And stick around for news about a brand-new Mythos pedal.
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Please do this episode again but with someone who is totally on the side of modelers. This is just two people agreeing with each other because they share the same opinion for an hour. I personally would like to hear the other side of the argument from someone who has a different opinion. I say this as a tube amp guy who seriously considers moving to modeling at least twice a year.
yeah this is a pretty boring conversation. At the end of the day, if you can't tell the difference, there's more options on a modeller. If you can't get a decent sound out of one of the top notch modellers today there's something wrong with you. Also, to even get in the ball park of the top notch amps, it costs a fortune for one sound and then you have the cab which all takes space. I would even say there's better options with more compact tube rigs, like Synergy.
Used tube amps for 30 years and I switched to a Helix 4 years ago. I play live almost every weekend. My sound has never been better. I get way more compliments on my tone than I ever did and it sounds great every night. Never had that with a tube amp ever. I go straight to FOH and use iems. Can't go back. I've tried. It's not for everyone and I've tried everything over the years and this just works for me. I bet neither one of these guys could tell the difference in a blind test of a modeller or an amp in a mix.
As a father to two young children, I can tell you that modelers saved my sanity (and the sanity of my family). However, now that my kids aren't babies anymore, I have sold off the modelers and gone back to two vintage tube amps (Deluxe Reverb and Marshall Studio 15). Modelers served their purpose, but I definitely prefer tube amps.
Totally agree. I have 2 young kids. I have a Marshall dsl, and cheap zoom multi fx pedal. 90% of my playing is through the zoom with headphones. It's a compromise that's best for the family. But it will be retired as soon as possible.
YOU CANT MAKE A TUBE ANP SOUND GOOD. YOU NEED LENSE CRAFTERS. AND THOSE SCRATCH PATCH FACI BEARDS MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A MARK . Only cowards hide in apple
I believe the main problem with modeling is that it makes it much more difficult to find your own sound. The options are infinite. You can sound just like Jimi by pushing a few buttons. People like Billy Gibbons ,Carlos Santana and Jeff Beck are easily identifiable after a few notes. I don't think many modern players that choose modelers have a tone that speaks to people in this way.
I'm 16 and happily play loud with a tube amp. Rock has never been about convenience.
@@shanelofton5857 with you, there is hope for the future for analog sound.
As a gigging musician since the late 70's, a lot of the venues now don't want the volume that we used to play at in the 80's and 90's. Many places that have a house PA now prefer going direct. That way they can control the volume and not have to compete with loud amps on stage. It did take some getting used to, but it is very doable. And your sound is constant from venue to venue. IEM's really make it easy. Watch any major act and you'll see them with IEM's, and amps on stage for looks, because the crowd wants to see big amps.
Let’s see how loud you get to play when you get your first apartment.
"RoCk hAs nEvEr b33n aBoUt cOnVeNieNcE" Says the 16 year old who drank the marketing kool-aid side of it all. You're romanticizing a music genre and turning it into a personality and life philosophy.
@@y.__.y-- and ur the one mocking a 16 year old in RUclips comments
I’m 38 and I’ve been playing since I was 14. I toured and recorded with Marshall, Vox, Mesa, and Fender tube amps for 15 years. When I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do next with tube amps, I bought an Axe-FX, and that helped me figure out what I’m looking for next. I know that the Axe-FX gives me a solid representation of hundreds of amps, and after trying nearly all of them, I know what I’m in the market for. The ease of trial can’t be beat!
Phillip McKnight at Know Your Gear made a similar recommendation for the Line 6 M5 (and somewhat for its newer brethren) and the rest of the family. Many recording artists still use them because of the ease of use. And for their costs they’re cheaper so you can try out various sounds without having to buy the pedal outright.
I have a vintage 1965 Fender Super Reverb Amp that I’ve owned since 1972. I can no longer lift it. I bought a Line 6 Helix LT in 2016 and never looked back. I recently bought a Fender Champion 20 for the studio, and I love it. I can easily carry it around, and it has all the tone I need.
One thing I've noticed with my students under 15 yrs old, they don't use modelers. So far, at least in Brooklyn, they seem to prefer amps now.
@@gffg387 do you have a different take with the students that you teach in Brooklyn? Inquiring minds want to know..
Same here in western Canada. Younger kids are idolizing classic bands just like we did. Here alternative and indie music both heavily blues inspired are big with younger bands. They use amps more often, I think the modeling thing is for those of us over 30 who want more options for less money and less volume it's really about convenience
What amps do they use?
Probably not big tube amps, but maybe blues jrs and all.@@BobbyCulpepper.srv3fender
I bought 67’ pro reverb when I was 14, that was three years ago. it’s my only amp atm.
My dad's buddy had a Les Paul deluxe and a Fender Twin, and I still remember hitting a chord through that rig and my eyes went wider than saucers.
This conversation has so many similarities to the digital photography conversation of the early 90s. I was 100% in the film camp and constantly defended it. I havent used film in 20 years
Very different things my friend. Holding a photo in your hands can’t compare to playing guitar with a tube amp and the cab moving air into your body. The level of sensorial interaction is way more complex and rich.
The immediacy of the response is different, I'll agree to that. However there was a huge difference in digital vs fil back then too. I'm just saying that gap closed and I assume this gap will too.
@@kalkidasofficial Actually his analogy is closer than you are given him credit for. It isn't about holding a photo. It was two different technologies to capture an image. Like modelers and digital photography both started out as a pale comparison of the original it was trying to emulate (Film or Tubes). Digital photography is now 100% professional and even preferable to the vast majority of photographers as the quality and convenience is wonderful and film has become uber niche and a chore. Current profiling is absolutely showing that Tubes are headed in the same direction. As profilers get slightly better and if manufactures start focusing on quality power amps and speakers instead of limiting those things to budget bottom of the barrel products, I think the shift will be even stronger. There will be a place for Tube amps, but we will reach a tipping point.
@@kalkidasofficial no, it isn't. It's all in your imagination.
As a 33 year old that likes all of the same music as y’all do, who has never had the funds, or the living situation that supports a pushed tube amp, modelers are a godsend.
I can now get the sound of my heroes that inspired me to play. I can play along my favorite songs and live shows to RUclips. Best of all, rather than menu diving and stuff and sorting between all the options, I found “my” sound which has driven my gear purchases since. Helix jumpered Marshall with an MXR Micro Amp, plus a Way Huge Red Llama, followed by a tape delay and a plate reverb.
Be all end all, it’s just a great time to be a player. I hope one day to play through a 100W Marshall.
So there is an Oscar Wilde Quote that I think applies here, " Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." The reason this applies is that an awful lot of players are not looking for their own tone. They can just punch in their favorite artists tone or pull up one for whatever cover they are doing. I remember when the first Line 6 amp (at least I think it was the first) came out and it had presets for popular artist tones. Personally I love both options. Also I don't have a "professional" ear so I can't listen to a tone and say it needs more or less compression or midrange, etc. That of course makes it harder to build your own tone. Also the "Tesla" response I think comes from a place of having what they like pissed on by purists, so definitely a 2 way street.
I have a Vox VT20+ that has similar presets. Think Line 6 had Variax guitars where you could preprogram and change the tuning with the rotation of a knob. May not sound like a big deal. But John Rzeznik (Goo Goo Dolls) endorsed it and he has a different tuning for just about every song he’s written.
I think if you guys simply consider zooming out a bit - where are these young people playing? In their room, mostly. What’s too loud for the bedroom? Tubes. Not saying I agree with it because the UA OX is my most prized gear that makes it possible for me to play tubes at home, but still. I’m thinking these younger artists are already recording AND learning on their computers. Why not plug their guitar into it too?
You say that as if the ox doesn't cost more than some tube amps. I would never have been able to get one as a teenager.
Stupidly expensive, i play festivals on a regular and guys that pull up with giant tube 4x12s get side eyed by everyone. I have a Fender Tonemaster Pro, sounds great, plug and play live. Game over..
Yeah, I have owned Marshalls, a classic Deluxe Reverb, and still have an AC30. I don't think modelers sound "better" than tube amps, but I have neighbors and a partner I live with, and I only get extended time to play is late at night. Not only does my modeler let me play more than I would otherwise, but I do think it sounds 95% as good while also giving me access to try more gear than I ever would have. When I do have the ability to play loud and "move air," I'll frequently run my modeler straight into the effects loop of my AC30 to bypass the preamp completely and use preamp models that let me make my AC30 sound more like a bunch of different amps that become cool hybrid tones when using the AC30 as a power amp and cab.
Hey Rhett. Excellent discussion. As the owner of a 100W Two-Rock, I also agree there is nothing quite like an actual tube amp. They are magical. But......I also own a Fractal Audio unit and am equally amazed as to how tonally great it sounds. I was thinking that perhaps why many feel this way about modelers is they are maybe not giving enough consideration as to what their modelers are paired with. For instance, my pair of Red Sound MF.10's paired in stereo with the Fractal is mind-blowing and these speakers push a massive amount of air. I think the majority of folks using modelers are either sending them through either FOH or at home using headphones or studio monitors so it makes sense they're not really feeling that 'thump' we associate with actual amps. Without a doubt, the physics of tube amps may be something that can never be fully replicated by modelers, but I think they can be much harder to distinguish from the real thing if they are given an 'equal' speaker solution. My two cents. 😎
Yeah I agree with this 100%. I don't fully understand the comparison of tube amp's "moving air" vs. modelers. It's like, modelers can be run through power amps and cabs and "move air," too. I frequently run my Helix into the FX loop return of my AC30 so that I skip the preamp section. Then in my Helix I just select which preamp model to use and I can make my AC30 "move air" like it normally would, while blending tones and making my AC30 sound more like a Marshall or more like a Mesa Boogie. I don't think modelers sound *better* than tube amps, but I don't think they sound much worse either. At the end of the day, they are just tools like everything else, and it comes down to how you use them.
100% agree.
The thing is, the IRs are getting so good, I don't mind using them. If I can play and forget about that stuff and just enjoy jamming ......that's where it's at!
As an old guy who’s been playing for nearly 40 years, I’m in the “amps are now pointless” camp, so it’s not solely a generational thing. Going direct, solves 99.9% of the problems with amps, PARTICULARLY tube amps. More reliable, lighter, better control and switching options, cheaper, better FOH sound, WAY more reliable. Yes, there’s a magic to having the right amp, dialed just right, in a room that’s just right, sitting at exactly the right angle, etc., (been there and done that) but how often in the real world (home or gigging) can you actually achieve that. Almost never. Instead, you end up herniating your back hauling in a amp that cost as much as a old car, to have the sound guy have you turn down, not really get that home-tone you dialed in, and beam the first row with in-axis sound, ruining your performance for them. A modeler (even if played through a real cab on stage) is still a superior choice, nearly all the time. Technology did what it always does, it takes what works and makes it better. Tube amps sound cool, and now we can have 99.9999% of that tone (and get it consistently) in a backpack (along with a dozen fx, switchers, DI box, etc.). Real tube amps are currently pointless pieces of working gear, for all but a hipster devotion to obsolescent things and an overactive sense of nostalgia. Sold them all. Heavy, expensive dust collectors.
Dude, i couldn't say it better, perfectly summed up 🙏
The industry continues to teach us that old is the only good, which is really limiting. It should come as no surprise that so many players are falling into the trap of believing that antique technology is better. It’s what we’re all taught to covet. There are amazing tones yet to be discovered through the endless digital configuration options now available; things you simply cannot accomplish with physical amps. Instead, the industry is stuck looking backwards obsessing over “tube tone” (which digital has accomplished anyway). I would confidently say that my modeler delivers good tone, 4-5x as consistently than any physical amp I’ve ever owned. Bar none. All that said, I understand confirmation bias, and see it all the time. If one spends $3k on a combo, they’re going to believe it’s delivering something that justifies that price. I play a lot of multi band shows where all manner of gear sits on stage, and I consistently get compliments on my tone, and it’s funny when they learn that it wasn’t the Dr Z sitting there, rather a GT-1000.
Well said!
I'm another old guy who played tubes forever and currently plays modelers, and I agree with most all of what you're saying but I don't think the tone is quite that close in this regard -- to my ear as the guitarist, I can definitely hear a meaningful difference, let alone feel one. Now, when it gets piped out to the board, the sound guy hacks off half the frequencies, and sends it to the crowd? At that point it's indistinguishable and like you said, many times even superior because it's not being mic'd well in the first place compared to an IR capture with vintage mics on a vintage cab in a perfect room. And as I've gotten older, the value of not having to carry that vintage cab has only increased.
, fair enough. In my experience, it took a long time for me to learn how to make a model sound and feel real, but I eventually got there. It was entirely my fault, not the gear. I suppose my greater point is that those instances where a real tune amp is meaningfully better, without the drawbacks outweighing the tiny difference in player experience, are very few and far between. I can’t remember a time when I said “I wish I had a real amp”. Doesn’t happen. I’m not saying amps should go away, just that they are sort of pointless as a “tool”. Just like film cameras.
I have tube, solid state, hybrid, and an early modeller (GDec Jr) and I like them all.
None are top of the line amps, but I can make them all work.
They all have pros and cons, not just my amps, but the types of amps.
Amps I have tried-same thing, cheap or expensive.
So experiment, and have fun.
In my 40s play modelers and boomer bends. I had tube amps felt the thump and all that stuff that rhett mentioned. Got tinnitus. Now play modelers and don’t really hear the difference cause I’m deaf
I'm sorry to hear. :(
I think a huge part of it is how many people can't afford the tube amps they are trying to emulate paired with a lot of people aren't living in places where they can turn something up loud and spend a lot of time playing through headphones.I think they are trying to reframe their situation by saying "modelers are better." I don't know how many guitar players would refuse a gift of an awesome tube amp if given the opportunity.
I love tube amps so much and teach guitar. All my students who use modelers get giddy when they can come in and we can crank a Fender Deluxe or Marshall for part of a lesson.
The one point I think is missing from this particular view (one I share myself) is portability.
If you have mobility issues, or if have like a worship gig (aka usually unpaid, limited rehearsal time, and your only playing like 4 songs) it can be hard to justify lugging in largest amps as part of a rig.
23 year old here (just for context)
I’ve recently got a PRS HDRX 20 amp head, and I’m playing it into my Koch load box. The line out from the loadbox goes into the input of my Focusrite 18i20 interface, and then into Amplitube 5. I have only got the speaker cabs enabled. So, actual amplifier with a virtual speaker.
I have to say, this is the best setup for me as a bedroom guitarist. The modellers are great, but the simplicity of finding a great sound in the PRS and just playing cannot be matched.
The modellers give me endless tonal possibilities, but the PRS has the better sound hands down.
With the modellers, I don’t get the urge to play electric guitar (in fact I had been playing mainly acoustic).
But with my amp setup now, I can’t stop playing!
Zach being on the TPS group is among the many reasons to be on there. Stellar stellar!
Boomer here. Not only are vintage tube amps my gold standard as a player, they’re my bread and butter as an amp tech. That said, you need at least 3 or 4 tube rigs of different sizes to gig out in all situations. Or maybe a couple plus an Ox box. Lots of players of all ages don’t have the space or $$$ to support a collection like Rhett’s. Most are lucky to have even ONE nice amp as a reference. That’s the reason for the popularity of modellers- even if you’re into old-school tones.
I play about 100 gigs in a year in bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters etc…my tube amps serve me well in all of those contexts and micing then up is simple and sounds great . Tube amps sound great, are easy to use, and are reliable. I don’t understand the obsession in our industry with over complicating everything. Find a good sound and then focus on your technique and serve the music you’re playing! Like you said Rhett, modelers are a tool in the toolbox, but let’s not convince ourselves that the more convenient choice is the most musical one.
*Fully agree with not swearing off things you haven’t tried.
*But, Fully in favor of the tech for a project evolving in a way that makes the most since for a particular group of musicians, there comfort, their resources, and the consistency or spontaneity of their show
*Fully disagree that a sound has to be based on something that exists in the real world to be artistically valid. (this may be a songwriter vs guitarist thing, I can play the guitar pretty well as a result of learning the parts I first heard in my head. The result is some skill, but the origin is the work)
-Once a sound leaves the mains, everything that happens is equally real and analog. And not everyone is chasing the same things, people, or sometimes, anything at all other than a sound they found that they like.
*If you have ever been packed in the front corner of a venue whose mains are not wide enough or are too high to support that corner, (as a frequent attendee of Vibes in San Antonio) I can promise you that your audience experience is suffering because you don't have amps/power cabs on stage, I love drums MORE than the next human, and they still won’t carry a show alone.
Rhett, I really appreciate how considerate you are of peoples differing experiences, and Zach, I really appreciate the life you have put in to knowing and experiencing how the sounds of your heroes have made and in awe of your ability to dig into those things and really figure out how they work on an engineering level, I really wish I had that.
There are two personality traits in the realm of “the rush” that everyone is seeking here. I mention them because as much as technology has changed and affected younger players, I think age is less of a factor than everyone is making of it.
Type A (intentional LOL)
Free soloing a long dangerous route was described by Honnold as the ultimate expression of perfection.
There is wind and weather and all kinds of things but the rock is the rock. And a piece practiced and performed is not so different. The more mastery you have the more you can express with each note, but people chasing perfection need to mitigate the environment and modelers are a way to do that. Some of these songs out there are as much athletic pursuits as art. And their fans are looking for athleticism as much as art. (I’m sure Lebron would love his shoes changing size because he stepped on the floor harder LOL) Even some improvisers would go that route because they need the guitar to behave the same way as it does in the room that they practice in.
Type B
For Shaun Tomson, surfing is about uncertainty and risk, paddling into the unseen and taking a leap of faith. This is a very different personality type. An amp turned up and a guitar next to it introduces enough interplay to make it a different instrument altogether. You take what you know, the rhythm you have, the melodies you love, and the song your playing, and allow feedback (from musicians, audiences, and, -at times most of all, the amp) to come in to it. Then you ride it.
When I put all the weird gigs I have together to make my way from one month’s bills to the next I find myself doing both (not so athletically LOL). On my anxious days, I take comfort in the control, and the other 87% of the time, I’m riding the wave or wishing I was. So I see merit in both points of view.
And I say points of view because this is not an argument, it is a collection of points of view shaped by resources, personality types, genre choice, playing style, and opinions of bandmates. The only thing wrong is when people say don’t or won’t, you learn by doing (or wooing??LOL). I have never played a deluxe, an ac30, a jtm, a soldano, or a dumble. So I don’t have an opinion on them. I have gigged a MIG50, a HRDeluxe, Bad Cat Cougar 15 (made in china), an Epiphone Valve Sr, a Supro1600 supreme, a Foxgear kolt 45, a Boss IR 200, and metric f-ton of shitty and great backlines. I would happily take the mig50, supro 1600, cougar 15, or the HRD because I know how to get my sounds out of them. I would also take a boss ir 200 as long as you gave me a powered speaker of some kind for the same reason. I would play differently on the boss, but it wouldn’t be bad, just different, because the wave would be different :)
I think the collector thing comes into play as well. I don’t have that yet. When it is time to buy an amp, I have not ever, and do not play through amps I cannot afford. I don’t want to want something I can’t afford, I want the thing I can afford and make work for what I do. As neuro-divergent as I am, that is a neurotypical trait, and therefore probably has some sway over this “argument” as well. It doesn’t mean I will never try anything, it just means that I jealously guard against retail therapy LOL, and in this day and age, i KNOW I am not the only one. When I can afford to have my pick of the litter of 50 watt tube amps, I will pick through the litter and get 2. For practicality’s sake, I will most likely own a QC before I get to that point, but it does not mean that point will not be reached! LOL What it does mean, is that, as always, I will have an amp, a duplicate, and a silent option, because I am not a collector, and don't have the space or the money to be one :) I love that you guys are, because it makes you a better follow because there is more to learn from you :)
Sorry for the novel! Thanks for all you guys do, I know it's time consuming work, and it is much appreciated!
They’re all tools, if you can get the sound you want, there’s no right or wrong. I’ve found myself going more hybrid most of the past 10 years. Either an analog drive section then through digital for the power amp/speaker sim when I need to be “silent,” or digital front end and amplified through a real amp when I can be loud. I now have my board set up where I can split and have a tonex capture going to FOH and an analog signal to go to an amp on stage.
Arguing over whether someone should play digital or tubes is what i imagine guitar players went through when switching from hollow body guitars to solid body guitars. When you understand the comparison, i think you'll get why digital isnt going anywhere
This is easy: it all matters what you’re after. If you want a studio sound nothing wrong with a modeler. If you want the feel of an amp you need the tubes, at least today. I prefer an amp but I also have modelers but use them with a stereo power amp and that’s pretty great.
“Old man yells at ☁️ “
Hilarious.
Well, while I long for the convenience of modelers.
I’m not left wanting with my tube amps.
Back pain it is.
It's sad that these modelling fan boys that denounce tube amps have never experienced a proper great tube amp cranked and pushing air. A modeller will never be able to simulate the feeling of this
Love these discussions. I think the thing that sticks out to me is that most come from a place of "I have to choose" v "I have a preference". Take a modeler, with an AC30 Model, plugin your favorite pedals in the signal chain, put a couple of Headrush 1000w 12" FRFR monitors on either side of a vocal/band wedge monitor, and I guarantee you're going to feel the sound, you're going to get natural feedback, plenty of low end boom, and all that has the potential of inspiration. In the meantime, FOH is mixing the sound for the audience and the venue.
I think it's not about what's better - its what works for the player. Rhett, taking your statement of "it's a tool" to be used as the player deems works for them, really is where a "argument" really ends. Then seeing player like Rabea, who uses modern tones, and then melds modeling with real amps and now there's a potential of infinite sounds. I know Mick and Dan talk "option paralysis" a lot - and true. I would argue that we all have had that same problem in the analogue world - however - the time to results what much much slower. Ok - get the Princeton, ok, now a Soldano, then and AC15, maybe AC30, a Two Rock, etc then a strat, then a LP, then a Jazzmaster.... We've had the same option paralysis in a way - it just took us in the analogue world years and decades to perfect our sound.
Then bring in studio options - sm57, royer, ribbons, condensers, preamps, eqs - all that also exists within most modelers. It's an interesting argument. I play in a rock band, blues band, and Mellencamp tribute band - use my QC for it all...and sometimes, I do miss the type of adjustments I can make with my AC15 or Mesa F50, or my Bassbreaker.
I like Zach's final thoughts - just try stuff.... we are in a time where we have the options....why not just figure out what works for us/you as a player....
Bass player here. Yes, we have tone and love tone.
I used an SVT from the early 80s to the mid 2000s. Moved to an Ampeg tube pre, also an SVT 4 Pro.
I would rather play a modeller now. Plug straight into the PA. Play with headphones/in ears.
Less weight.
Less space.
Easier volume control.
Is it different from playing with my Ampeg behind me? Of course. I miss it.
To the audience, it doesn't fucking matter.
Totally agree about silent stages, regardless of “aesthetics”. Looks aside, even if the drummer’s on e-drums, in smaller spaces you need at least a small amp on stage to drown out the sound of beaten Tupperware!
During the shutdowns, as an "intro to tube amps" I found a used Blackstar HT-5R locally for $200. I figured if it didn't work I wouldn't lose too much. It would burp and fart and hum weird. I asked the amp tech at the shop where I bought it for an appointment for him to look at it and he suggested I replace the tubes first. I pulled the tubes out to double check the numbers and put them back in. Bingo! It sounded great. I live in a duplex so I don't crank it up unless the neighbors are gone, but I like playing it more than my Katana 50. And I really like playing the two amps together. I like the Blackstar clean and the Katana with effects. For me, it's perfect.
Profiles can be played just as loud as a Tube amp and in fact you can run a digital unit into a tube power amp into a cab (or Full Range system). Tube amps are great, but they also have massive limitations - playing in the sweet spot for response isn't always the right volume for the venue you are playing in. Pushing 120db+ because you run an non-MV amp into a 4x12 has its own challenges depending on the band and room. What we need are some better playback systems to get a similar sound/feel to the Tube amps now that ToneX can legitimately sound and feel good.
Nothing beats the 10 inch and 12 inch guitar speakers pushing the air with that 3D harmonic thing it does.
I'm thinking about buying a tube amp, my first… impeccable timing for this podcast topic. Thx, guys. Keep on keeping on 🎸🎸
I’m 62 and been playing guitar for many years and never owned or played a real tube amp except for in GC. I play a Helix live and like some of the sounds I’m getting but I don’t love them. Problem is, we have a silent stage so I’ve never even thought about having a tube amp on stage. However last night I pulled the trigger on the new EMGL Steve Morris lunchbox amp. From the demos I’ve heard, it sounds great and it has the ability to play at a lower volume and keep the tone. So I’m looking forward to getting my first tube amp and if I don’t like it, I’ll sell it.
I built an 18 watt TMB Marshall clone about 11 or 12 years ago. It’s only really in the last couple of years that I’ve been able to play this amp out loud on festival stages with The Mighty Flux. There’s nothing like the feeling and the tactile feedback through your hands/ears/body. That’s something I’ve never experienced with digital modellers.
I use a modeller in another band and it gets mixed in to a performance with keys/another guitar/ 2 or 3 vocalists/bass and drums. That’s for weddings and it really works in that setting. It’s a great band and we sound really polished. I don’t ever get the feeling that my amplified sound is reacting to what I play or where I stand.
Tube (valve) amps however, are a visceral experience which I absolutely love.
Ive had the same tube amp for 25 years. Love it. Havent been able to play it for years because i live in an apartment. As home ownership becomes less and less accessible in the US- just by virtue of the situation, less people even have the option to play tube amps.
I love my Fender tube amps but the load in and out prompted me to move to UA Ruby and Dream, FRFR and playing through PA - the evenness of sound, amp selection (AC30 and Fender Deluxe) and portability is great.
I play live, often, loud and heavy - modelers are a blessing. Until you start playing live and it becomes routine, you can’t have a pragmatic opinion. And I absolutely love big, loud amps.
No one ever talks about the blackface Pro Reverb cranked . They're the best mid way amp between a Princeton and twin/super.
Same with vinyl and digital. Depends on quality of the vinyl, the player, needle , amp and speakers. It matters and there are differences. But, when it matters is maybe the issue.
I had a Fender Deluxe Reverb Blonde Tonemaster for 2 years. It was ok with the attenuator on 0,1- 0,5W or whatever the lowest settings was, with a pedalboard connected to it, but then I took it to a band rehearsel, full power(100 digital class D Watts to simulate the 22W tube amp) and it sounded harsh, synthetic, cold, flat, terrible highs. Ended up with the treble at zero … Luckily I was able to sell it. Maybe if I gave it some more time with loud playing at full power, it would make the speaker to wear in, but I don't have the patience with sounds I don't like. It's not fun to play with the wrong feel, and the sound is working against you and you struggle with a guitar that you usually love to play.
The dudes who seem to be on the modeler trip around here are the older gigging dudes. They love their tubes, but like non sore backs more. 😂
Deadlifts are your friend. I’m 50 and tube heads and 4x12 cabs feel like toys when I load them.
@@louderthangod I’m not the older gigging dudes I was referring to 🤣
@@nathanwright408 Good, your profile picture didn’t seem like you were. I’m tired of seeing so many guitarists complain about their Les Paul being so heavy they can’t even hold it and blaming their age. Unless they’re pushing triple digits in age, that’s not it, they’ve just given up on themselves physically and think that’s the way it has to be.
I have many tube amps and I enjoy them all. Back in the end of the eighties I had a guitar hero named Adrian Belew and I wanted to try and capture some of his sound. So I purchased the Amp he was currently using, a Johnson Millenium 150. It's got a tube preamp, original British made V-30's. I also picked up the matching 2x12 with V-30's cab sitting under it. 35 years later I still have not had a single issue with it. I think that this was one of the very first modelers in production?
I'm 47 and have no interest in tube amps. I had the noisy house on the street in my teens with a Music Man 212 75 which I still have a soft spot for. However, I've never cared about sounding like anyone else. I'd much rather have the convenience of software. (Amps > wedges though. I want the option to stretch my legs. Granted, I'd prefer in-ear tech.)
Honestly, Rhett's definition of poser seems backwards. Amps for aesthetics? Do we need to go back to the days of low confidence musicians buying the hair products of popular bands? I'd respect a projector screen of amps more. At least it's a versatile display.
The problem with modelers is that you get a new one pop up every couple of months. And at the end of the day all they are is decent copies of the real thing. As far as I’m concerned, why would I want an emulation which may hit the mark,or not….when I can actually have the real thing. And it will never go out of style. I have quite a few pedals that emulate amps. But, I always go to the amps for the real juice. Modelers are for jamming around with buddies and the occasional gig. But if you want a real performance, that is actually great on recordings, you go with a real micd up amp.
I just saw Stone Temple Pilots with Live and Soul Asylum and all three had amps and cabs on stage! It sounded great in the 5th row!
I love my Marshall DSL40cr.
I started on loud Marshall stacks, moved to smaller heads and combos, and now I'm happy to lug a Kemper Stage, wear IEM's, and be completely noiseless on stage, and I'm only a couple years younger than Beato. I don't care to move backward, and it would seem that the "tube amp or die" people are more of the cork sniffing gate-keepers. I couldn't care less what works for someone else, I'm happy to stay with the tech when it comes to live shows.
I love tube amps, but having to lug my own gear down the street to the venue and my age of 55 - I need light weight gear. It's a long night of play! I really enjoy my HX Stomp and Fender FR10. The venues we play don't want loud sounds due to older patrons not being able to order their food/drinks.
This man said he uses Threads. Twitter has gotten too bad for him to enjoy. 😂
Ask a young person if they want to be able to have the sound of 1 amp at 100% feel or 20 amps at 95% feel.
Put your modeler through a fairly neutral, clean tube amp to add that touch of real glass. You're welcome.
There's no way any modelers will touch the feel of a real tube amps, there's an insane amount of underlying harmonics that can't be touched by modelers. I played most of my early years with crappy solid state amps which actually held me back from playing because it was very tough to get a good sound. Once I got my first real tube amp (Vox AC15 C1) the world opened up. I couldn't get a bad sound.. Tube amps are NOT going away. IYKYK
I'm 21 and I've gone full circle. Had amps and pedals then discovered modelers in the pandemic, sold everything and bought a helix. then when I got back to gigging again i used the helix for a while but i was really missing something on stage. went back to tube amps and will always use them whenever i can
Great show you guys. 1973 Pro reverb. deluxe reverb reissue and a Marshall 1987 4x12 with old greenbacks…….and a few different modelers. What do I use for daily when at home noodling? A boss katana 100😂
There are so many low priced used tube and solid state amps. I think some of the people don’t realize their artist might record with real amps but tour with modelers. Many youth I see in the store are buying amps
I have tried plug-ins and some modelers. Modelers are OK, but I just can't get any joy from plugins - I can get decent sounds from plug-ins- but I don't get any joy. I must be doing something wrong with them. But I love, love, love my Headstrong Lil King - plug in, turn on and play. Every time, whatever guitar, sounds awesome each and every time into the Headstrong. Nothing will ever beat that for me. Full disclosure - I am 53. I get that the Headstrong is an expensive amp - but I got a not too dis-similar feeling when I played through a Princeton reissue. The Headstrong is quieter (it is dead quiet) and sounds way better than the re-issue, but a player can get in the ballpark with the re-issue and aim to upgrade later. People gig with the Headstrong too.
Tube amps are tough, and repairable. The amps have a great headroom that comes through live. Usually missing with dsp devices (amps or direct). Trust your sound people, they are your amp.. If your dsp device breaks or dumps it's memory, it's back to the factory. However, in a studio or at the house? So much easier to work with direct devices.. And you don't have to be a power-lifter... Whatever floats one's boat! Both will be around for a long, long time..
I'm going the way Metallica does, find the tones with tube amps, set up modeler to accurately reproduce those tones while on tour.
Screw silent stages! The question is when will we run out of experienced FOH engineers being able to deal with stage volume? That being said, I can't play that loud anymore (distortion in the left ear at certain volumes/notes), but I plugged my newly acquired 2008 VOS LP into my amp and ran it through a cause at a pretty low volume, so it won't cause my hearing any issues. Even at that low volume, it is a whole different experience than playing via a modeler or the OX box through headphones. It entices to sculpt every note, to play expressive, use the room acoustics and whatever feedback there is on your guitar.
I began my guitar journey with modelers. Zoom. Digitech. And now boss. I own 8 amps 6 are all tube. I'm dying to get my amps out to gig with but 1) none of the gigging situations I'm in warrant even the 5w and 2) my modeler does such an amazing job and it's such a quick set up I haven't had the motivation to bother with the amps for years.
I can never relate to this argument when I see it, because to me it’s obvious. Modelers are cheap and convenient, in a variety of ways. Tube amps, which are the things they’re modeling, are better when you can use them. By definition. There are a lot of reasons someone could prefer a modeler, but none of them have to do with how it sounds and feels to play one. So use modelers when you need to, and use the real thing when you can.
But I also recognize, due to all of the reasons modelers are more convenient, that it could get to the point where the market for amps becomes small enough that it isn’t viable anymore. That’s the big question to me. Technology has disrupted music in a million ways, more than any other area, and things are still scattered. It’s not clear where a lot of things will settle down.
When I first started playing guitar I had a digitech GNX3. This was at the beginning of Modulars when they weren’t too great. But then at 17 I bought a fender hotrod deluxe 2-12 and have been obsessed with tube amps ever since. Now at 34, I prefer the tones of a cranked tube amp, but I also see where Modular’s are better. It’s all about the venue and the gig and what is acceptable.
Fractal tip the scales. Love my hand-wired tubies, love the new Fractal stuff.
One thing that I think gets lost in the conversation is that a modeler can get 80-90% of the tone of a real amp…under perfect conditions. Most people can’t get tubes amps loud enough to get the tones they are looking for at home - which is where most people are regularly playing. If you are living in an apartment, have roommates, are a parent, etc. a modeler will do a better job getting those classic tones than tube amps in those use cases.
All this irony coming from two cork sniffers who are call others gate-keepers gives me a chuckle. Yes, there are people, even pros who play night after night through a Helix or Quad Cortex, etc. Ozzy started the "remove amps from the stage" era when Randy was still around. Rush famously had chicken frying and washing machines, several bands had walls of fake Marshalls to give themselves cred. My tube amps are collecting dust, but I can't find it in my heart to sell them. Still, I can't remember a gig where I needed them in the last couple of years. While you're feeding your amps through an OX box or through mic'd cabs in another room, don't call out the poor blokes who are stuck in an apartment or tight neighborhood where playing loud is just not an option. Most of these folk are stuck on stages where space is a dying commodity and wait staff and patrons are tired of yelling over your inflated egos. My son (in his 20's) would rather go somewhere that someone can hear him talk, and while we jam at home as loud as we want, that's just not what people want anymore (unless you're a DJ with a bloated ego).
Some of these people not only don't have one of these amps, they couldn't access one without making a trek to another city just to give it a try. Both of you are in the industry and have access to things many people couldn't even hope to see much less play! Oh, just find a mid-60's blah blah blah... Sure, let me just go ask my friends at Guitar Center or local mom-and-pop that have nothing more 'vintage' than a 90's TSL. Come on. Be real. You're living in your little bubble, get out once in a while. Jeesh.
I was lucky enough to grow up with that stuff, and unlucky enough to have to lug it in a van from venue to venue. No thanks. Give me my Kemper Stage, throw an XLR to the sound system and I know that there's a consistent sound. And if you cared enough to hear yourself, you'd invest in an IEM system (much cheaper than any vintage amp) so you can hear anywhere on or off stage.
For gigging, the simplicity and consistency of a modeler on your pedalboard is the way to go.
BUT let me tell ya…. there is nothing like cranking a tube amp to 11 and ringing out a big ole E chord.
I use a modeler for business, an amp for pleasure, and an acoustic to keep my wife’s spark for me burning.
Tube amps become obsolete and it's a good thing. I love tube amps myself but they're heavy, unaffordable, impractical live and too loud. Why should i pay 2k for one amp when i can pay 1k for every amp. It just doesn't make sense.
Sold my tube amp, ain't looking back. And if you know what you're doing, you can make modelers sound at least as good as tubes, if not better.
The reality of touring economics today we're completely ignored in this discussion. My nephew plays in a touring metal band, and nobody drags heavy, unreliable amps on the road anymore. And nobody in the audience knows the difference anyway.
One problem with digital is that it's an ecosystem, a walled garden; you're a renter. You don't own software. In a way, you don't own the hardware either, because what are you going to do with it without software? From streaming services to phones to modellers to plug-ins, the younger generation does not own but rent. My guitars and amps are for life. Slowly approaching middle age, I find it hard to be excited about software-based products and hardware that's out of date the moment you buy it. I'm not sure I'm just an old--time romantic or if younger people are really growing up with something real missing with all the digital and online experiences, and lacking tangible connection with people, records, amps, the limitation but realness and personality of physical stuff versus the eternal pie in the sky search of digital life. It just feels it fits in with the gradual neutering of real-life experiences in today's world. Would you have a robot as a more convenient partner?
I never understand the comparisons between modelers and amps. "It doesn't sound like the real amp it's modeling!" I think we'd all be better off if the manufacturers didn't even reference the amps they modeled. I have always viewed modelers as a totally different path to guitar tone than a tube amp (or solid-state amp). There are several amps I own and love that have never been successfully modeled - like the Peavey Delta Blues or the Marshall 600 series combos. So if I need those tones, I'll use those amps.
But my main live tones are now Helix presets I built while composing the songs we perform. I couldn't reproduce these sounds with a dozen amps and 20 pedals - because I don't have access to altering the sag characteristics, or the amp bias, or the negative feedback circuits of an amp in real-time during a gig. I literally CAN'T put a compressor between my amp head and my cabinet, like I do on several presets. I go for the tone the song calls for, and I can find the right tone much faster on a good modeling platform. I will always love the sound of a great guitar amp, and the sound of a great modeler preset. That doesn't put me in one "camp" or the other. They're two totally different things.
I mostly only use tube amps. Proper microphone, eq and compression and you’re good to go. I do have a Boss Katana though, which is excellent.
When I go to sleep my tube Amp is by my side and still warm, of course they matter !!
With a Helix, I simply don't need an amp.
I bought the Helix Floor and HX XL, didn’t work for me expecting to “have it all that I need”. I ended up selling those and buy vintage tube amps, never gonna sell my tube amps.
@@kalkidasofficial In what way did the Helix not work for you?
Anyone else like using the Fender Champion 2x12s with all those different amp voice options with that knob it has in the 100w version? Even though it's solid state, it covers so much quality amp ground from my experience. Good real tweed sounds and high gain or Marshall sounds
My theory on why the younger generation (kids these days) prefer modelers is because a tube amp is limited... These players are the spotify generation, why would they pick an amp when they can get a modeler that has 50 amps, plus effects plus cabs, etc
I think there is a culture of pushback against the people who were the most vocal about tube amps being the only good sound while solid state and modelers were all trash in the 2010s. (The timeframe that was actively changing)
The people who could only afford solid state or modeling amps at that time were able to get pretty good sounds and were constantly being told that their sounds were bad. They are now experiencing the same bias against the tube amps that they felt directed towards the solid state or modeling amps that they were playing at the time.
I don't think any of it is actually better or worse than any of the rest of it, but I think that's the core of the anti-tube sentiment from what I can see. Tube amp snobs ruined it for the up-and-comers
I would like to know what Rhett and Zack think about Kirk Hammett and The Edge switching to modelers as of late. Kirk and The Edge have been using tube amps for decades and have only switched within the last few years.
If I had everything I wanted, I'd play amps. I used to play a half stack for decades, and I can count the number of times I was allowed to turn it up to an ideal level on one hand. And half of those times, it was because there was an isolation room for the amp so it was off stage and piped through a wedge. So I scaled down from a 100w stack to a ~40w combo, and then when that was still too loud I started using a passive loadbox to bring down the volume without killing the tone. Then when it became evident that I was going to have to spend twice as much on reactive loadboxes as I did on my amp, I downsized further to a pair of smaller combos that power scaled to a fraction of a watt. And when I was playing through those combos at 1/4w, I still got asked to turn down. I could burr up and argue with the sound guy about how I need to be louder and use all the guitarist words like warmth and responsiveness and feedback and organic... but I'm also a sound guy, so I know how dumb I'll sound and how much I'll seem like an asshole. Plus I'll probably just get muted.
And that's all aside from using it at home, where I spent a lot of time just baaaaarely touching the volume knob trying to squeeze a little bit of sound out without actually engaging 99% of the amp, because if I carelessly set the amp at something audacious like 1 and a half, my neighbors' neighbor could hear me in their dining room. That's not an exaggeration, they let me know. And I'm not in an apartment, that's going most of the way down the block through a couple of houses. It's not as terrible if I'm doing some washy ambient clean chorus stuff, but if I'm working on some rock riff and I have to play it a hundred times at half speed, my wife wants to murder me. I can't blame her -- there's a guy 3 houses down the street who plays his amp nice and loud and I can hear him in my office while I'm trying to work. I'm a guitarist that loves to stand in front of a marshall half stack and feel the air move my pants leg, I'm partially deaf from guitar amps and my drummer's Z crash that hung about a yard from my ear, and even in that demographic I'm angry at him for being so loud. I care too much about my relationships with other people to think it's worth playing at that volume.
When I switched to a modeler and a pair of studio monitors, now I can get the tone I crave at volumes that let me jam when I'm up at night feeding the new baby. I can watch him falling asleep in the bassinet while I work on Cowboys From Hell. I can pack it up and bring it to any venue and get the same tone. I think about the hip, underground venues I played, hauling the halfstack up three flights of stairs in an old grain elevator, and now I could put it in my pocket with room for my phone. And instead of watching some stage weasel hang a radioshack-brand SM58 knockoff flat on the front of the cab, I'm sending a signal to FoH that actually sounds like it's mic'd up well (and I can record at home SO easy now!).
Is it as fun as playing a loud amp? No, not even close. Did I ever /really/ get to play a loud amp? Also no.
I would say that the homogeneity that Zach mentioned in modern music, especially more progressive styles, likely comes from modelling and the ease of presets.
Even though I really like modern and progressive genres of rock and metal, I agree they sound quite similar. I'd chalk it up how easy it is to find out what your guitar heroes are using because they often have made a preset for a modeller or plugin. There isn't as much need for exploration or just using what equipment you have available to you to find your sound.
Not that you can't experiment with modellers or plugins and get some crazy sounds, it's just that for most people there is no need. You just choose a preset that is already mix ready and go.
Is it really a Dipped in Tone episode if Rhett and Zach agree the whole time?
I have a 1999 Marshall JCM 2000 TSL. Those did not get good reviews but it sounds great. I also have a fifties era Fender tweed deluxe. Very different sound spectrum but both are a joy to play.
As someone who plays guitar for a living and only uses modelers... I think they suck.... They could be better, but the companies think theyve already cracked the code and therefore don't push to be better. I will say i prefer modelling over capture/profiling, profiles just feel so hollow to me and tweaking them actually makes it worse. The only company that really has the feel and tonality down or atleast is moving in the right direction is fractal, but i cant use fractal, i hate the form factor and its too difficult to use or adjust on the fly. I use a quad cortex most of the time, which feel and tone wise i hate, but the form factor is the best. But it could be better, to bad its designed and developed by a bass player who doesn't take input from working musicians
I’m definitely on the tube amp train. For the last three years now I’ve been using the BluGuitar Amp1 Mercury and I think you guys know of it and would love for you to review one if you haven’t already done so. It is a glorious 100w pedal board amp with tube in the power amp section. I run it straight into a Marshall 4x12 and it has all the tone and guts of many of the older tube amps I’ve owned and played over the years and comes in at 1.2kg. It can also run straight to FOH and DAW ✌️❤️🤘
when speaking of modelers, I have to admit that I rejected that idea for a really long time, and I still believe in the real amp selected by taste and style..however, as Rhett mentioned that during recording of his EP he sometimes went just straight in the preamp or in the board - this is direction that I'm also researching and in fact, I was considering using modeling just to capture exactly those obscure and hermetic sounds that you can't make with an actual amp, instead of trying to emulate classical amp setting
Just mixed a track that I played guitars on as well. Tracked guitars at the Church Studio in Tulsa (super cool place) on a vintage AC30 (not sure what year), with some great mics, Neve pres, the whole nine. Client ran out of money and I ended up having to track the solo at home and do it quickly. So I used the neural dsp Morgan plugin and the solo sounds great in the mix, but I had to “cover” it up with double tracking and some modulation because it had this plastic quality to it that couldn’t touch the real thing.
I use an Axe fx 3 live because I’m on a silent stage, and I got tired of running two kempers for stereo amps and didn’t want to shell out the money for a looper/switcher and the cost of redoing my board with midi cables, etc.. it sounds 90% as good as the kemper and pedalboard, which was 90% as good as when I was running a ac20 deluxe and a 65 deluxe reverb RI.
About to order a quad cortex for some fly dates. We’ll see how that goes.
Amps are better. 🤷🏻♂️ even if you can’t have them on stage and you have to use an iso cab or speaker emulation.
Oh, the Tesla folks... Let's not forget there was a whole South Park episode dedicated to the Prius (aka Pius) owners, so let's just say there's always a clique. No, I don't own a Tesla, never would. But there are plenty of hybrid and EV options out there from which to choose. I'm still waiting for the VW micro-bus EV.
I’ll absolutely do gigs, especially small, with the cheapest pos modeler because people just wanna hear “clean guitar” or “crunchy guitar” or “distorted guitar.” But at home, in practice, or at large gigs, I wanna bust out the tube amp and I’m giddy about it
Modelers are to loud tube amps as worship music is to rock - it’s a simulacrum that some people like, but it’s not at all the same thing.
The whole point is the volume (+110dB). Just as a car is measured by top speed, amps should be measured for highest dB achievable. That's what scares the grown-ups. If you can't be heard over a lawnmower or chainsaw, your band can be easily dismissed. Just keep it within lawn mowing hours.
An angle I didn’t see brought to light in the comments: Listen to yourselves. You keep saying, play a “good” tube this and that. As a 53 year old who isn’t in a “scene” where my buddies can bring a good one over, or tip me off to a “good” one going on the market, it’s incredibly frustrating. I get the appeal of a good amp but paying a premium for a new tube amp that the “tube experts” say isn’t good, withers my excitement. For example, @Zack has expressed many times that any new AC amp isn’t worth having.
If suddenly, you have to only play vintage, and “good” versions at that, I can see how the pool of fans diminish and will continue to do so as achievable vintage options dwindle.
one of the problems on live gigs is rental backline amps like the hotrod or the twin reverb with a few simple upgrades like swapping speakers and tubes these amps can sound great. if anyone is starting a vintage tube quest my tip: start with the best mullard i61 or i63 at v1 will work for most people i also like ge12ax7wa, enjoy!
Rhet, why don't you try and capture your DI-sound with the Tonex. Then take the output to a FIFR speaker for moving air on stage, and to front of house as well, of course.
Speaking as a FOH engineer, amps on stage are amazing, as long as the volume is appropriate for the venue :) Little tricks like side washing, or firing backwards, plexi shields, can help drastically as well with letting the FOH guy actually have some control out front. A lot of the time, the issue is a relatively beamy amp ends up getting pointed directly at FOH, and your guitar will therefore not go in the mix :P
Also, Rhett, you might wanna consider taking your vintage stuff, particularly that AC30, to Lyle Caldwell in Memphis. He can make that amp dead quiet, and every bit as reliable as any of your modern amps. As a side bonus, I bet you 2 could make some great youtube content out of it as well
This is about laziness. Once you stand in front of a 4x12 cabinet with a good tube head, you can’t seriously enjoy playing through a modeling pedal and not hearing yourself in front of the amp. Also, how do you practice? You have a P.A. at home?
For recording, modellers because I cannot even tell the difference in the mix. For live use though, I'd rather gig a Katana than a Quad Cortex with IEMs
I think a big thing about experiencing a tube amp is finding the right one. I grew up on solid states and everyone told how much better tubes were and i bought a 5W bugera and it was garbage compared to my Vox Valvetronix. But I went to a guitar store one day and tried the small fender super champ xd...and all of a sudden i got it...its the sound but also the response/feel.
I watched the Rick Beato episode where he talked to Petrucci, Tosin, and Devon Townsend, and Tosin got into amps because of playing Petrucci's rig during their tour and experiencing the experience of pushing air and playing with knobs.
Every guitar player needs to experience playing through an amp and feeling their pant-legs flapping in the breeze!
Empty stages look like the band is playing to a track. There's a reason why all those rock acts back in the day (KISS, AC/DC, VH, ZZ Top) had walls of amps and cabs.
Mostly fake cab fronts, but still…
Marshall DSLs are fine. They’re not the holy grail of Marshall tone buy they’re an actual affordable tube amp for regular working people who play music in their spare time.