The Beginner's Guide Stream
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- Опубликовано: 21 янв 2018
- My first time playing The Beginner's Guide. Blind with chat minimized on stream.
Twitch is here - / andersonjph
Main channel is here -
/ @josephandersonchannel
Twitter - / jph_anderson 
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I think that the final game [ingame] coda sent to [ingame] davey was a test. Will this person violate me even more by making a game playable by altering it, or will they contact me telling me they can't get beyond the maze. [ingame] davey utterly failed that test. He altered the code for every obstacle and ended up reading the message he wasn't supposed to even get to. If he had been a better person he wouldn't have found the message.
I think it's just a foolproof way to get him to see the message. He would have distributed the game and to make it playable he would've had to change the code to get past it, ensuring that he would see the message.
I played this game a few years back, and I don't think I put much thought into it at the time. That said, I remember ending with "Man, thats rough. Davey was trying to help, wasn't he?" However after re-experiencing the game through this video, Joe's comment at 1:30:28 is right on the mark in my opinion. Real or not, Coda has every right to be upset with Davey. Davey crossed so many lines. Breaking and changing Coda's games so they'd be playable, bringing them (the altered versions?) to others for unsolicited opinions, trying to find meaning in every single creation.
I can see how that'd be draining for someone who just wants to do their own thing, for their own sake.
Also, I think the game as a whole is a really interesting concept. It at first looks like a person's honest attempt at sharing something for a good cause, analyzing its meaning to understand a troubled friend... when in reality its more a character piece about the narrator themselves. Its like visiting a museum, and witnessing the guide having a break down attempting to derive meaning in the art when there is none.
Totally agreed although I think Coda’s response (obviously he’s not real) was silly, saying it was all part of the process and that it was so clear and obvious that nothing was wrong with him, it’s just ridiculous. The creator of this game was clearly trying to create something that would imply someone was troubled only for that to be flipped on
its head and people to be like “her I guess this makes sense it’s like Dave over analyzing everything” but really I don’t think any reasonable human being would’ve interpreted anything other than coda was troubled.
@@PurgPurgIs Coda real in the games universe? I dont think thats clear
@@PurgPurgThe point is that we shouldn't look at art and say "clearly the creator is troubled." Art can simply be art. It doesn't have to say anything about the mind of its creator.
There are a bunch of writers, poets and artists that received their fame post-mortem when someone found all their works and published those, then others analyzed and scrutinized those works that were never supposed to be read or seen. On one hand it's a selfish move to just go ahead and publish something you found for your own profit and against the authors' will, but on the other hand a lot of people would argue that the world would be deprived of a lot if those works were never published.
I'm not sure where exactly I'm going with it, I suppose one takeaway would be Davey should've waited until Coda dies? 😅
@@shifty_dragon3679 while its true that art can be simply art, it doesnt mean the mental state of the author doesnt effect their work. it just happened to not be the case for this game. thats all. artists sometimes even intentionally give meaning from their own life to their work. coda just wasnt that kind of person. and its not at all that easy to identify. the mistake davey made, was lack of communication. otherwise he wouldn't have made so many assumptions without proper basis.
I love how the entire presime of the game is openly admitted to in the very first piece of narration, and it's only when you get to the end that you realise the implications of what "Davey" is doing.
If you watch the trailer, there's a lot more games than the ones showcased in Beginner's Guide. So Wreden (or the character Wreden in this game) is also being manipulative by cherry-picking which games to show us in the first place.
That's an incredibly good point, one which I glossed over when I played this.
In hindsight, it's incredible how much he over-analyses things. Like "oooooooh, floating boxes, so deep and artsy!" when it's probably just Coda messing around with the editor like we all tend to do when we try out an editor for the first time.
@@Klar It seems hard for Coda to make these games by just fucking around. I think the misunderstanding was Davey tried finding his own purpose by imposing his own story on someone else.
it wasn't the first game by coda that the narrator played
all of that it just retrospective
@@11equalsfish its also uncomfortable because its apparent from the start that this is crossing over from the realm of art into mental health...and some of the "analysis" of the games is more like armchair psychology which is a lil sussy
I think its a lot about perceiving others as "perfect" because you only see a part of them, you dont see their struggles, their flaws on a surface level.
davey perceived R as a "whole" person as he said himself, he thought R was perfect, unlike him.
And through taking these games and showing them to others, Davey felt like he was R, like he was perfect and people loved him for it.
The way Joe said, "For him to get to see this message, he would have had to break the game, right? huh..." at 1:30:20 it kinda broke my heart a little and I teared up, wow
"Maybe he just likes making prisons" became my default response to any argument for Authorial Intent on any work; it's a fallacy to assume you can learn about an author's psyche through their art alone.
Go tell that to every english teacher ever
@@yuanwang9324 I'm not really sure what the point of writing essays like that is.
It would make more sense if they taught you how to guide your analysis toward something more likely, rather than just going "yeah pick a sentence and say some random nonsense about what it could mean IDK lol"
i think youre missing the point, you can try to find the authors intent, just not what that means about the author. "maybe he just likes making prisons" doesnt mean maybe those prisons serve no meaning, he just enjoys making them, it means, maybe i shouldntve assumed those prisons were meant to show his life
@@smoceany9478 Fair; My initial comment was largely in reference to the idea of being able to deduce *anything* about an author's psyche through their work alone, since it's really impossible to be confident in any conclusions drawn outside of "they sure did make that artwork". I.e. someone who writes about murder alot doesn't mean they like or dislike murder or mysteries, it just means they have written a lot of stories about murder for whatever reason. (Maybe they're in a contract to write murder stories, or maybe they're trying to appease a particular audience, or maybe they really do just like writing murder stories - it's impossible to know from their work alone, you need to look outside their work.)
However I do get your point - the concept of Authorial Intent being a lens through which we can attempt to work out what is the most probable explanation for what an author was going for isn't an unreasonable approach (even if I, for above reasons, disagree with its principles)... and through that lens, yes, "Maybe he just likes making prisons" would definitely be instead saying "just because he writes about murder doesn't mean he's mentally unwell" or whatnot - the dangers of diagnosing the artist's psyche through their art, as Beginners Guide so deftly shows.
I just personally don't like Authorial Intent at its core principles, since I know how easy it is for an audience to be confidently incorrect about an artist's intent in their work, and how the whole exercise feels like a point in futility without resorting to just asking the artist directly.
@@smoceany9478 Fair, I suppose my initial commemt was talking about the Intentional Fallacy more than Authorial Intent even if in my mind the two concepts are heavily intertwined.
I think trying to accurately deduce any artist's intent just by looking at their work alone is a point in futility, as there's infinite reasons an artist would do a thing. "He must really like murder stories if he wrote so many" fails to consider that perhaps he was under contract, or was unable to publish any other type of story, or was sticking to that theme to impress a girl, or any other reason. Same logic goes for "He used this word here which clearly means he meant this!" and anysuch nonesense - The only way to know for sure is by asking the artist directly, and outside of that, it's impossible and ridiculous to even try. (Not to mention that often it detracts from the work by limiting its possible interpretations to be as narrow as possible which defeats the point of art).
But yes, your point is correct, Beginners Guide is more overtly about the Intentional Fallacy than Authorial Intent, since thd Intentional Fallacy is quite literally "Diagnose the artist's psyche from looking at their art alone." But I think an argument could be made it's about both.
It's art. "Maybe he just likes making prisons" can mean a lot of things. And if you think Davey meant it solely to critique Intentional Fallacies, you're free to think that. Meanwhile, I do not care what Davey intended it to mean, I just care what I interpret it to mean.
(Also sorry if I wind up replying twice, RUclips's glitching on me.)
_"Where's my moon for getting across?"_
10/10
Wait, I watched this already?
I feel like I found out about this channel a month ago...
@@joko49perez you ever get that feeling of deja vu
@@hadix7x Yes.
@@joko49perez is this a JoJo reference
@@hadix7x I don't watch Anime.
You earned my thumbs up with that "if this was mario odyssey these would be moons" comment regarding those notes. Good work.
It blindsided me, some much needed levity
Never played this. Very impressed by how they tied the prison-escape sequence in with the CLEAN sequence.
Where originally Codas way out of the prison is found by visiting the other prison and pressing the rug / shelves / table / pillows in the right order. In CLEAN he performs the same actions, but over and over.
Realizing escape isn't an action to be performed once, but has to be a habit.
I hate getting into, "this represents..." talks, but it seems intentional and super well done here.
Sweet game!
EDIT: Fuck and that part about breaking the thought-cubes with the positive thoughts. This game really is pretty sharp.
WOW. I would never have thought of that.
Okay, but that 'you can only walk backwards ' game? Bloody briliant idea
That was one of the most ingenious game concepts and executions I've seen in 2015 and it was a 2 minute part of another 2 hour indie game.
That's just what I call an Ocarina of Time speedrun, personally.
Shent is it really so brilliant? Lol I don’t think something quirky is equivalent to something ‘bloody brilliant’
@@bensosnowski1128 The idea is an idea, the way it is explored, the themes that tie it to the rst of the story, the way it playsa on your emotions, that is what I found briliant
@@shent1059 for example you could try doing "an advanced superhot" where moving forward moves time forward, but moving backwards reverses it... Or make it a boss encounter like Medusa, where you cannot face it xD
I've watched people play this game many times now.
Davey is supposed to be an Unreliable Narrator. In this video game, they're a shitty person. I'd like to note this is very likely realistic fiction as opposed to nonfiction.
"Coda" really cared about Davey and wanted them to get help. Upon replay, the last couple games in the compilation are geared towards showing Davey what he does to Coda. Of course, Davey feels smart in telling the audience it's about self-destruction. You can see dialogue options where it feels geared towards telling Davey that they're hurting Coda's feelings.
Coda wasn't broken, or needing to be fixed. Davey treated and presented them that way, though. I think this is more about mental illness than anything else. The insecurities.
I've been both Coda and Davey, and I think most of you have as well.
The least reliable narrator since Verbal Kint
"Who's that woman crying?" Apparently it's me
Motivation to create is a very complicated thing.
Most people will continue creating because of external sources, such as social validation, monetary incentives, or simple competition. This is not a bad thing. Knowing that other people enjoy your work can be a fantastic driving force.
Then, there are some people who are internally motivated. Introverts who sit at the back of the classroom writing in their notebooks, doodling on scrap paper, or simply daydreaming. It's difficult to understand why reclusive individuals create so feverishly, but never show their work to others. Boredom? Escapism? Practice? They just want to?
Internally driven creators are incredibly passionate and protective of their work. Attempting to even glance at their creations, complete or not, will make them instantly resentful of you.
I saw a lot of myself in who Davey described as 'Coda'. Years ago, I had a story idea in my mind. Yes, it was literally just fanfiction, but I didn't know what that was at the time.
I worked on this story for literally years, knowing full well that no one else was going to see it. One and a half notebooks later, I completed it. I was proud and genuinely happy with what I created.
And no one will see a single word.
The relationship between Davey and 'Coda' feels like what happens when an externally motivated creator receives the greatest honor of seeing an internally motivated creator's personal art store. Believing that sharing their work will be beneficial to their self esteem and productivity, Davey inadvertently violates 'Coda's' trust, and fails to see the damage it caused before it was too late.
Their relationship became irreparable as a result. 'Coda' seemed to believe that he became true friends with someone who was trustworthy and respectful, but Davey only cared for the games he made instead.
I would absolutely love to have met 'Coda'. He sounds like the Monty Oum of developing games.
Oh interesting perspective!!!
What if you had a Davey? What if you had someone you trusted but they show your story against your will?
I was looking for this comment, and now I don't have to write it myself (which would've been less eloquent anyway). Thanks!
Obviously this is very late, but the longer I keep creating things, the more I understand this game from Coda's side, creating just for the joy of creating and how difficult that is to keep up when everyone around you tells you to create for other reasons. And it hasn't even just been about creating- my relationships with other people have sometimes lead to the exact conclusion that The Tower gave. You want something from me that I can't give. Thank you for caring about me. I have to ask you not to talk to me anymore.
So you're just playing all of my favorite games all in a row? Sweet.
Louie Salmon 😈👻👻😈
This game made me feel empty inside
@Linda Niemkiewicz that came out of nowhere. I hope you become a better person.
That escalated pretty quickly holy shit
@Linda Niemkiewicz ahh teens trying so hard to be edgy, never change
@@_modernmage Damn, pretty bad comment. Implying feeling empty inside makes them a worse person.
Unless you just meant you hope they get better and worded it weird.
@@CrazyFiredemon oh, you might've misunderstood me. I was @ing someone who deleted their comment. They weren't exactly being polite. You can see the person I was @ing is different than OP.
So, I think if you can find it, it's very important to read Wredens letter about how he felt after the success of The Stanley Parable. I know someone mentioned it, and now that I think back on it, I'm honestly unsure if it was a real letter about how he felt, or some kind of "promo" leading up to this game, because they were more than just the letter.
If it was just a promo, than this man deserves an Oscar and all the other awards for everything, with proving just how well he understands human psychology. Even during the game, I kept thinking about the letter and how shitty he felt after Parables reception, knowing that he would be forcing his thoughts and emotions on Coda as a result. At the end of the game I actually questioned (and to an extent, still do question) whether or not Davey IS Coda, at least in some way.
I'll admit that the second time through it wasn't AS impactful, but the entire concept and conversations held within, even Davey's projections on what Coda's games may mean are something I can relate with in a way that I think few people really can. Not many people really understand depression, or how thoughts and emotions can lead people to doing certain things for their own selfish needs. Davey trying so hard to "cheer" someone up as a way of validating his own life, even to the extent of projecting on to people, and the resulting fractures that creates is something I've gone through time and time again. It truly makes you feel like shit, and a complete failure, and it's hard as hell to break out of, if you ever can.
All I can really say is that if Davey TRULY doesn't have depression, then he's pretty much the only person I've ever seen that actually understands it completely.
Thanks for drawing my attention to this, it really helps me see the game in a new light. After all this time too...
I think Davey both is and isn't Coda in the narrative. The story seems to intentionally lend itself to the obvious, two-person narrative and the Davey-only narrative, in which Coda is just the personification of Davey's creativity and passion for development. The only contradiction to this would be that Davey does seem unaware of certain things that he would be aware of if he had made all the games.
@@tsartarry3995 What a blast from the past. Haven't thought of this in a while. I sure don't remember enough to discuss.
Fun fact: in the number guessing section, there are 10^6 = 1.000.000 possibilites. No way he could have guessed. He probably decompiled the code or something
He is Coda.
or he knew the code from the very beginnig because the story is made up and he literally made the code part
He obviously decompiled it, how are you going to make changes to the source code without actually having it? Not that it would be hard to brute force it if was encrypted -decrypted- or otherwise obfuscated. 6 digit number can be done in like 0.005 seconds.
@@3ngin33r7 I disagree with your time estimate, it could be done in microseconds or in many years, it depends on the actual procedure for validation (which could be super optimized, or an AutoHotKey script that moves and clicks the mouse to check them all out, get it?)
@@Dorumin I meant to say encrypted, not decrypted. You never need to actually change the values in-game, you can do what cheat engine does and find the memory address where the number is stored and change it. Also need to find how to commit it each time, I'd guess just a single bit to flip. Unless there are intentional anti-brute force measures, it shouldn't be much more complicated. At the slowest, you could try one combination per frame, so a bit over four and a half hours(if the correct combination is 999999 and you start at 000000) to brute force assuming the logic runs at 60 ticks/s, same as fps. But my point was that that's only necessary in the first place if it's obfuscated or encrypted. Otherwise, it's easier to just find the variable where the game stores the correct combination.
The 0.005s number came from me just writing a quick python script to see how long it takes to brute force 151617. That's on a single cpu thread with probably inefficient code using a really inefficient language so ofc it could be faster.
it's interesting how a game about not reading too deep into everything can be seen from many different perspectives
It's more a game about not drawing conclusions about the artist from the art. Don't use the book to read the author.
So powerful. What a great way to show how trying to fix people as a broken person can destroy both people. Blown away. Video games have transcended art. Viewing that through any other medium would have lost the message.
Thanks for playing so I don’t have to Joe 😁
BreadlyToastington Not sure if you're being sarcastic. It would have lost a lot if this wasn't a game.
"Viewing that through any other medium would have lost the message"
And then you say how happy you are that you watched it through another medium?
@@NorwegianForestCatboy Because he literally viewed it through another medium, lol. RUclips. Not the game itself.
@@derekg5674 That's awfully pedantic. You know what he meant.
Should have known Joseph Anderson would explore that whole stairs level.
I like how fast he figured out that Coda wasn't a real person. Joseph is smart. I love his channels
Zanx
It doesn't matter whether or not he's real, for all intents and purposes, what matters is that he is for the story
Rehtael of course it does
@@Rehteal o to gt ok oigtg to
Fuck Davey! We stan Coda! #JusticeForCoda
19:15 that sneeze timed with the dragon animation is so perfect lmao.
I'd have to go back and check but, I think the first time Davey mentions the months between games is at 4 months. So, for the code combination at the end it's the months between each new game followed by the additional month excluding the first (4) and the second to last (8). This game is incredible at setting up patterns like that. I'm blown away that it weaves it into the narrative and shows you who davey is by turning you into him.
37:02 that "Kripparian here" was priceless :D
Such a simple "Lets play" video, yet has so much power in it. When it popped into my subscription's list, I thought to myself "Uh it's only a 2 hours-ish video, I'll just skim through it and see what Joseph has to say about the game" (a game which I've never heard of until now). I ended up watching the entire video from start to end.
I still don't know what to think about it, though I do feel impressed.
Joseph, could you please add the date in which you played the game on (and also in future videos)? It'll be nice just for the timeline reference...
Not a long term solution, and what you're saying is definitely great advice, but for the time being you can go to his twitch videos page and it'll show up there with dates attached.
Well I don't use twitch, so I guess this is why I missed that...
Wait... Coda is the name of the artist that wrote the second Jojo's Bizarre Adventure theme.
So this whole game is basically a Jojo's reference.
Even more so now, as season 5's opening is by Coda, too
Coda is also the name of a coder's character in The Magic Circle.
Got me kinda confused honestly.
“Coda would put bizarre titles”
JOJO REFERENCE CONFIRMED
a
This game ended up being a great exploration of the pitfalls of Parasocial relationships between Content Creators and their audiences...and it's made all the sadder by the fact that "Davey" *creates* this parasocial interaction, when he could have had a healthy mutual relationship with "Coda". He creates that barrier on his own, and doesn't seem to realize what he's done. He doesn't seem to realize that he created his own personal "Coda" in his head, and treated it as the real person.
You can certainly *interperet* things about a creator from their work. But unless you are hearing straight it from the horse's mouth, it's only an assumption.
I've watched several LPs of this game and this is the first time I really thought about how little Davey tells us about any non-game interactions he's had with Coda. Almost all of his "understanding" of Coda's thoughts is through the games. It really speaks to what you said about Davey creating his own barrier in this relationship. He set up his own artificial rules for how to handle getting to know Coda as a person instead of being sincere. Davey was his own prison, and Coda tried to tell him that.
this game is beautiful
It's basically about pretentiousness, isn't it? 'Coda' just wants to make weird shit and the narrator wants to read all this stuff in to it.
TOASTEngineer
That's one of the many layers of it, yes
I think that Coda did have some vision for his games, they're not just 'weird for weirdness sake' as Davey puts it, but I think they were much more personal to him. I think he never wanted to show his games to anyone, especially cause Davey mentions that the house cleaning game was the only one Coda showed him without Davey bugging him. I think Coda's games were his way of dealing with personal stuff, little projects just for him that he used for some purpose we don't really get to see. and that's fine, it's why none of them any thematic conclusion or true link between them for the most part. It isn't needed cause Coda knew about it, and he was the only one he wanted to play his games, not Davey or anyone Davey showed Coda's games to
One thing that I noticed myself after seeing this game played by many different people was that Davey' motive for this is not only because he just feels bad about himself and wants to be told that he's a good person. I'd say there's a deeper motive behind it, an implicit one.
Davey in this story personifies the idea of a person who doesn't make anything himself, who never creates, who can't do anything on his own or focus on his own life and efforts. Like he himself says, he can't understand what it'd be like to not look for outside acceptance. And when he says that he feels like he has something he needs to do he is begrudgingly letting that mentality go and taking control.
You can actually find the five stages of grief in this story too, with Davey being in denial about why Coda has stopped making games until the very last stage, the Tower. But I will stop analyzing this game too much now because otherwise the paradoxical irony of this game's themes would make me a Davey myself.
The end was like a salvador dali painting, felt like a dream
You NEED to play the great TO THE MOON.
51:10 Context is that you downloaded from Steam a all-in-one package of Coda`s games made by Davey Wreden. He says it in the beggining. So this is a game of games.
First thing that comes to mind, to me at least, is that Davey and Coda are literally the same person (as in, Davey). It seems kinda obvious that he is trying to recatch what made him build The Stanley Parable by reviewing his work (not literally, but recreations of it?), a work he finds almost alien at this point, as if made by someone else he can't reach anymore.
So its like meeting your past self but he might as well be a stranger with the same name?
I really like this interpretation
I can't express how much I loved this game, it's an interactive experience that I can only recommend.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
What did you like about it?
@@bensosnowski1128 For some reason it really touched me, I´m not sure if I'd feel the same about 3 years later but back then I connected with it emotionally, not sure if it´s objectively a masterpiece but for some reason I loved it.
ichigogeek thanks for responding!
1:27:40 you're cut off from finishing the game because the switch is on the other side of the door. Intentionally putting yourself on the wrong side of the door was the solution to "the puzzle." The same actions that Davey was taking are the exact reason he can't progress through the tower.
That purple cave area you said was familiar looks a bit like the Darkeater Midir boss arena/Dark Souls 1 intro cinematic cave. That's all I've got to offer... trying to analyse this game tends to devolve into a meta-spiral that ends in severe existential dread.
Yo crazy one of my fav creators watch one of my fav creators
what are the fucking chances of this shit I think I actually live inside a simulation.
literally anything: *happens*
Joseph: "...wuh?"
19:16 perfect timing
One of my favorite streams of yours. Fantastic game.
Oh, didn't know you already played this game. That's very cool, glad you went through it. Definitely one of my favorite experiences.
This game is such a great example of why you should not judge an artist (or anyone for that matter) by their work
I don't really agree with this. You shouldn't force your narrative on them, but I still think you can always see at least some part of a person in their work. For example, I don't think people who have never had depression could make a good game about it.
@@CrazyFiredemonI disagree. I think someone who's never had depression could consult with those who have. Maybe they'd be less likely to make a good story about it, but to say that they couldn't is ridiculous.
i keep coming back to this video because i love this game and i love this playthrough. i remember watching another guy's playthrough and when in the end davey mentions the 3 dots the guy went "what dots?", meanwhile joseph noticed them from the beginning. its the little things shaping the experience
This game is even more interesting going back and watching it knowing the full context of everything that happens
You made the right choice! 2:01:00
You're fast becoming one of my favorite youtubers!
19:10 I like how the dragon breathes fire as he sneezes.
Some messages and commentary was really powerful and resonated a lot with me.
Especially the stuff about the work of coda and that the commentator changed the games of him to make himself feel better when people complemented him
Holy fuck, this hit me hard. I can really relate to the narrator when he talks about external validation. That shit can dangerous when you're trying to create something.
its not a deep insight or anything but the housecleaning game is my favorite thing ever. i wish it was real its so soothing and comforting
it is real
find the song and listen on repeat, it's called "va"
"Hey guys how it's going Kripparian here" was a really unexpected joke
This game made me re-evaluate my life back when I played it 5 years ago. Definitely a great experience that anyone that creates anything should try. Glad you gave it a chance Joseph.
This medium lends itself to art unlike any other
This is the exact opposite way to say I'm sorry. He wanted you to move on.
I think i recommended this game to you and Im really glad you liked it, its the most powerful game i ever played.
In the context of the game that actually says a lot about your need for external validation Davey.
I think that this is just the epitome of that hideaki anno quote "the best way to explain my thoughts is through what I make and I can't put it into words"
I wonder if this is how Ueda feels about all the Shadow of the colossus secret seeking madness lol
I wanted to buy it but it is bit expensive to me for like 2hours of gameplay sooo
I am glad you played it
I bought it finished it and refunded.
You two are terrible
Celestine Buendia I bought it on a sale too. For 3$! I feel kinda bad about it now.
If Coda is a real person i would argue that it's morally questionable to support Davey doing this to Coda. Steals his work and sells it for $10 despite specifically being asked to stop sharing his work. The menu screen has a lamppost in it, which Coda specifically asks Davey to stop putting in his games (were any of the lampposts Coda's?). He basically portrays his friend as a depressed, autistic introvert, which again, Coda specifically asks him to stop doing.
If Coda isn't real then the whole thing is even weirder.
David Kirby Coda is not real. It's a character used to prove a point.
I love how Davey is basically acting like one of the students in the classroom/lecture hall game - but he doesn't connect what he likes about that game to what is happening between him and Coda.
Oh man, I missed this stream which I was looking forward to ever since I found out that Joseph hadn't played this yet. One of my favourite games ever!
Jannis Tenbrink how much time after streaming does he post to yt?
Karolis Dervinis it depends, sometimes a week sometimes a month
It’s kinda fascinating how much this kinda mirrors those old Valve developer comments modes in stuff like Portal, only for literary analysis
I would love to see a full review of this game
"I might sneeze" fucking lost it
I can't wait for the video about this. This has remained my favorite game to talk to people about. Everyone just takes something so meaningful from it every time. It speaks to people in this indescribable way, and everyone sees themselves in Coda or the narrator (or even the play aka. themselves), but always in very different ways.
Nevermind, just finished the video, don't think there's going to be a video. Well, what can you do.
SpirusOfH and all the while, seeing yourself in the game is antithetical to the message it portrays. That’s the beauty of it; I couldn’t help but see a reflection of myself despite the entire game telling me that I shouldn’t.
This made me realize that I've never heard someone in real life pronounse 'w' as "double u" instead of like "dubayu"
UU
UwU
DoggyPoo that depends on your location.
Davey said Coda was a fictional character, didn't he? And I think that's actually the thing that makes this game genius. I mean he literally used his own name and status, created multiple maps he injected meaning into both in-game and irl, established a fictional connection to a fictional character with his in-game version getting multiple messages across and creating a parallel between Coda and him in real life. This game is amazing.
Yes the game is fictional
fictional connection with a fictional character? sounds like you're just describing normal fiction, which normally contains fictional characters forming fictional connections
@@godlyvex5543You can have a fictional connection with a real person, so I think the distinction is justified.
Davey himself (in game) is similarly fictional
Coda's games are giving me Pink Floyd's The Wall vibes.
Anime is now real. I can find my waifu for laifu. Thank you Sir Anderson.
Good game. I'd like to see it from the creator perspective
re: 21:00 comment about engines: nuances of the medium are present across the arts - books are probably the biggest outlier honestly lol. but your language shapes it, and back in the day your options for printing shaped it as well.
I forgot how bittersweet the music was
Hey Joe! You should move that Sub animation further up, the messages are sometimes too long to be fully read on-screen.
This is such an interesting game to interpret, in how antithetical the themes seem to be to interpretation.
The narrator really started to sound like Bojack towards the end there!
Reading some of the comments for this game while I'm only 10 minutes in... it's like a different language
i think Coda is like saying "code" but in a name form to give a face to the developer aspect of his life and he is essentially trying to understand why he wants to make games and struggles to find a reason (or lampost) to define what he was doing. At the end he realises that he's not doing it for any reason other than to be happy thus explaining why he kinda just left at the end saying "I'm just gonna go" and when you float above the world because he no longer is searching for an ending (meaning), but instead is just enjoying the process. Kinda reminds me of the guy who climbed mt.everast for the first time. When asked why he wanted to do it, he responded "because it's there". I dunno, just thinkin out loud ya know...
camcawl Coda is a reference to the musical concept DC al Coda, aka, return to the Coda. It was demonstrated throughout the game, In the prison designs, the house level, etc. I mean, the end song is called turn back, like, turn back to the Coda.
The Icon of the game is also the musical notation coda
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coda_sign.svg
I just thought Coda was an incredibly on the nose play on words. "Coda the coder."
the part with all the messages made me cry because the guy thought he was doing the right thing and was trying to help but was making things worst and made the experince of making those games less enjoyable and it's sad that he tried and treid but with out knoledge just made things worst and he didn't know. he just didn't know.
I don't think he literally added in lampposts, but that his demand for a "finish" for the game caused Coda to put a lamppost at the end of his game to signal "Hey, here's the end you demanded." but that is just my guess
Hey joseph, I advice to play the game Gorogoa. It's short and very beautiful. I think you'll enjoy it.
I found the presentation Davey did that was mentioned in chat at the end, it really adds some context. ruclips.net/video/bKMAJ8vOMDg/видео.html&app=desktop
My interpretation of 'will you stop adding lampposts to my games' isn't that Davey was literally adding lampposts to the games after the fact; Early on, Davey says 'After this, Coda would end all of his games with this lamppost'. The thing is that even given that Davey is an unreliable narrator and even if you want to assume that Davey's intentions weren't entirely honest, I don't see him telling such a bold faced lie if in fact he had been the one adding the lampposts in the first place.
I feel the implication is that Coda was pressured by Davey's expectations during their association, and added the lampposts as a way of appeasing Davey's desire for an ending. It speaks to how artists don't create in a vacuum, but are influenced by their environments and the public, even if that influence is detrimental to the end result and/or the artist themselves. This is why the last game doesn't have a lamppost. It's Coda's way of telling Davey that his influence isn't welcome in their games any more.
The most direct evidence _against_ this interpretation is Davey's admission that he had changed the housecleaning game which was originally an endless loop, but tried to pass that off as an intentional part of Coda's design at the point when you first encounter it, even speculating on why it was like that as if he were only an outside observer. But it doesn't really escalate from here, and he goes back to pointing out places he's changing things and explaining why. It seems incongruous that he'd just add a bunch of lampposts and never own up to it later, especially given the implication that the whole collection is a kind of hail mary 'please forgive me' play.
But that's art, right? You take what you want from it, so maybe that says more about me than it does about the game. :)
I personally think Davey was adding physical lampposts, as well. But I guess thematically it's the same either way: the lampposts represent playability and tidy meanings. Davey was pressuring Coda into putting those things in his games, Davey was also psychologically projecting those things when they weren't there, AND Davey was even modifying the games to fit those tastes.
If Coda put the lamppost at the "end" of the cleaning game you aren't supposed to reach, that basically represents the goal that Davey's pushing him towards and that Coda doesn't believe in -- Coda would be making a point with that lamp post that you aren't supposed to go to. If Davey put it there when he modified the game to make the "end" reachable, then in the end it represents the same thing.
What I love is that this game is kind of a mixed metaphor: This game was inspired by Davey working through his own conflicted reactions to all the praise The Stanley Parable got, but it's also based on a real relationship between himself and a (obviously unnamed) real person. On the one side, Davey and Coda represent two parts of a single developer's mind -- the part of him that's motivated by external validation, and the creative part that freezes up under scrutiny. On the other side, Davey represents his real-life self and Coda represents that unnamed friend. The pressure, the "lamp posts", the breach of boundaries... they all work in both metaphors, but with different connotations.
(And of course, the big Catch-22 of analyzing this game -- by trying to "figure it out" too much, you might be projecting too much on its creator, doing the very same thing this game is about. I mean, that's what analysis is, creating meaning by connecting _yourself_ to the work. And this work warns against assuming that you "know" the creator's true mind via that process.)
We did it guys. Anime is real.
looking at the speech bubbles game then scrolling down to the youtube comments is kinda trippy lol
I can't wait for a critique video on the main channel.
Anyone who was as taken by TBG as I was would probably enjoy the talk a twitch viewer recommended at the end of the stream. It's called Playing Stories, and it changed my life in a pretty significant way: ruclips.net/video/bKMAJ8vOMDg/видео.html&t
So it's like dark souls?
Ооо, Джо открывает для себя по очереди все важные для понимания медиума игры последних лет. А я перепроживаю их вместе с ним.
This is old, but lisa the painful is also made in rpg maker
You can't judge an author through their work. You just can't. When anybody can think and make anything they want for whatever reason, you ultimately cannot draw conclusions about an artist, strictly through their work. What an amazing story.
That is simply incorrect.
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384Give 1 example where judging someone through their art is a valid way to judge them.
I think the narrator saying things like "I'm skipping the maze" and "you can hit enter to climb the stairs normally" is showing this sort of ironic respect but also misunderstanding of codas work/intent
Edit: Holy shit. I just finished the vid. Should've waited. I interpreted that huge infinite maze at the end as a "fuck you" to Davey
With the stairs coda literally says it’s about how slowly over time you can get to know him but davey wants to skip past and feel like he knows him without the work
For some reason, the three dots remind me of a family portrait of two parents and their child in the middle.
I just realized that the music at the end of this game is from The Swapper! I didn’t realize that on my playthrough because I hadn’t played The Swapper at that time, cool
I think what makes the whole thing more infuriating with “Davey” is that he was using games to “get to know” a guy that he actually knew; he didn’t talk to him about normal things, he didn’t attempt to be an actual friend, the games were the whole relationship. Frankly I feel sorry for him, but honestly fuck him.
I clicked on the video thinking it would be something along the lines of Joe’s beginner’s guide to how he creates his videos or how he streams or something like that. I really like those kinds of behind the scenes videos so seeing as this wasn’t one of those I have to admit I was a little disappointed.
fuck yes
Is it weird that this video only got recommended now when I needed it most?
1:06:00 nice way to pay respects to door-kun from Persona 3, even made minato so holy, the great deal would blind you if you look at it lol
I think The Beginner's Guide is a lot better than The Stanley Parable, too.
36:49
for everyone dissecting what this game means, that is against the very idea of the game. You can't read authorial intent from a game, anything that you get from it is a projection of yourself.
But what you say is just your interpretation as well, so it sort of contradicts itself. Should we just stop trying to understand works of art at all then? Let's go further, any kind of "consuming" of information of any kind by a person already distorts it, like, the very act of comprehension is damaging to the source material.
That's what I don't like about ideas like this, and while they are true, they lead nowhere. It is much more constructive to...nope, I'm not developing this any further. Yep, made my point, time to stop, have a nice day!
It's not about how dissecting a game or trying to figure out what the author meant is wrong or whatever (I mean, people do that all the time with film and novels and it would be odd to argue that unwarranted or wrong or not the very point of art to begin with), it's about not then jumping to conclusions about the author based on that dissection or interpretation (or explaining why something in a game is the way it is because of who the author(s) was or was like in real life at the time). The game basically beats you over the head with this point - because the narrator doesn't just try to glimpse the intent behind each, individual work, they seem to think they get inside the authors head based on the body of work over time - explaining the reason for something in the game because of an assumption based on who the author was at the time of making it or who he was in general.
And my interpretation here says nothing about who the author is or what state of mind he was in before, during, or after development. I really know nothing about him, and still don't after interpreting the work.
Interpret the work, don't use that work to interpret that author (or don't let the interpretation of the work be the interpretation of the author). And as aside - don't over-interpret and think every little thing is thematically important (for example - I have seen a few film analyzers on RUclips that read into even shooting snafu's that are known errors and think even THEY mean something, but because 'of course' they do).
...In order to get that message from the game, you had to dissect what the game meant.
Jokes on you,
I alrsdy believe in the Arthur's death
Well, it only means that people who are willing to dissect the game are in disagreement with the game's idea. It's not like you have to accept what the game tells you.