How To: Subframe Graft (Front Clipping)
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- The single most impactful thing you can do to your hotrod... a front subframe swap... This is a complete rundown on a Subframe swap, graft, front clip, IFS, Mustang2, Nova, Camaro, suspension swap.... whatever you want to call it! Including the actual fabrication process, power steering & brakes. Hopefully this helps you with your DIY project!
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Couldn't tel ya how many I've done. What amazes me most is your ability to explain and do a great job. One thing I've learned and obviously you as well, is you learn something new everyday. If not, well I guess that must be the asshat critics. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for the kind words and words of encouragement!! I definitely learn new things everyday and don't claim to know everything. Just trying to help out when I can! Happy hotrodding!
This is good content. Thank you!
Edit: better than content. It’s educational.
Help got a 1950 ford bread van like which I have a 2003 front frame and suspension put together
Very nice and inspiring. Question. When you were measuring across to check for square you were 1/4" off, which you corrected. How close does it need to be 1/16? Closer? Or absolutely the same? Thanks!
Jerry Haveman it's 1/4" difference. Which means it's 1/8' off. So if you move it 1/8" it will even out. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'd say 1/16" off or a difference of 1/8" in measurements is acceptable. A lot of that can be adjust for in the alignment of the vehicle. Of course perfect is always the best. But I shoot for 1/8" total
Enjoyed this video along with your explanation of this job, thanks! Was your business, at one time, in Elburn, Illinois?
No sir, thats a different tinman! He does really fantastic work! Thanks for watching and commenting
Hey how about a 73 chevelle front end to a 48 chevy pu?
Would it work?
I have no idea about the demensions between the 2.
Thinking rather than graft it use the mounting points and front suspension.
Not sure, you'd have to check
What frontend did you use on your car??
I have a 1950 chevy styleline deluxe I'm doing and I was going to do the same with a 90s s10 frontend
This was a 1970 nova front subframe
What brake booster/master did you use on this car? Thanks Perry
A universal 7" chrome booster from "auto city classic", and a wilwood 1" bore dual master cylinder. Disk/disk
how come you didn’t mount off the front of the block ?
sweenep86 because that's not how small block Chevy's mount lol and there will also be a serpentine system out front anyways
i mount them off the front two 3/8 holes, puts the weight over the crossmember
sweenep86 solid mount or?
Tinman 2 Kustoms i have solid mounted on dragsters, but have used Speedways cradle and my own versions of it on trucks and rods
This deserves soooooo many more views.
So many other RUclipsrs need to watch you and learn.
I've seen so much questionable teaching here on the Tube.
Liked and subscribed!
Great video thks for your video im going to try to do 2002 chev 1500 in to a 1953 ford bread van or should I shorten that frame and mount body?thks
Dude- thanks for the great demonstration & explanation! I appreciate the camera work plus audio plus on-screen text. All together, it was very understandable.
@@adambeck8180 thank you for watching and commenting, glad it'll help!
I'm considering doing this on my 48 delivery. I was thinking front clip for multiple improvements at once, steering already set up, disc brakes and I was thinking motor mount placement would already be there for V8. But thanks to your video that's not the case! I appreciate your knowledge and sharing. This would be my first one but you give off the confidence vibe!
Thanks for commenting and watching! Glad the video was helpefil. Feel free to hit that subscribe button and check out more of my videos. Enjoy your project :)
@@Tinman2Kustoms Already subscribed and just watched almost all 40 chevy videos! Always good to find the garage builders! Anything on putting a 2 link on one of these frames?
Beginning at 10:14... I was taught to never weld perpendicular to the frame. Splice points should be done diagonally and reinforcement plates done in a 45 degree arrow point or a "fishmouth" beyond the initial splice area. A diagonal splice spreads the load out over a wider area. Perpendicular splices concentrate the stress in a small area. I guess as long as it's gonna be a cruiser and you don't race or jump it, it will be okay. Take it easy over speed bumps. Cool old ride, though!
You're right. But the way it's plated is so overkill. It's far stronger than factory ever was.
@@Tinman2Kustoms Anything worth doing is worth overdoing, right? Any worthy project is always over-budget and behind schedule!
@@kevinkirk4285 yeah if you want ugly fishplates on your frame lol :P but yeah, technically you're right.
Thank you sir for the video. I’m about to tackle the same process on a 1950 Chevy truck using a move front clip. I will reference this video more than once. Thanks again
Good job of explaining how to do this, plan on installing nova subframe on my 41 plymouth coupe. Thanks for info.
Is the nova clip narrower than Camaros? Have a 40 Pontiac coupe that I think some beers was used during the last front clip job. A front steer clip was used,plus they ran the steering though a drive shaft end welded to the frame. Hacked the front clip badly.
This looks like the most fun project I can imagine! I'm gonna have to learn to weld and fab!
A lot of useful information. Did something similar in the early '80's with my dad. 57 Dodge 1/2 ton, and a '69 Plymouth Fury front subframe. We got lucky because the '57 C channel frame fit in snug to the Fury subframe. Hardest part was leveling the subframe, to work with the rear torsion bar mounts, and transmission mount. Also the Fury created a lot of engine set back. Requiring a good chunk of engine firewall to be removed.
Great info & video. Just a heads up, SBC came out in 55. Keep up the great work!
I've got a 54 Ford F350,I'm wanting to subframe it with a more modern one ton to get better steering box and everything else...any recommendations on what to use?
Thanks very much for putting this video together. I've wondered about the process of grafting a subframe for a long time. You did a fine job crafting those plates, no big gaps. That's a nice '40 you've got going there.
Thanks! More of the finished car can be seen on my Facebook & Instagram. Tinman 2 Kustoms
Bro I have a stock 49 pontiac silver streak delux can you help me come up with a way to raise it front and back by 2 or 3 inches just stiffer springs or longer softer spring
Should not measure off top ball joint it's movable. The lower ball joint is fixed
Obviously this young man knows his stuff. I wish I had gotten into hot ridding at a young age like him. Pretty cool!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you! If you dont mind me asking, how did you find this video? Seems like quite a bit of new comments on it today haha
It just came up on my cue on RUclips. I spend too much time watching videos! I like car videos and there’s lots of guys like you doing restorations and customs.
Cool video ,good info. I got a 41 chev so it will be same deal i think
Thats a ton of work but totally worth it for the improvements. Have never fit a non original body to a chassis before, that looked like some finicky work as well. Thank you for sharing.
TheCanadianBubba oh yeah it's definitely finicky!!! But the improvements are well worth it in the long run. Thank you for watching and commenting as well, nice to know people dig the vids
Big question I'm building a 1956 ford fairlane what's a good subframe swap I'm going with a lsx motor
Not sure you'd have to go out and get measurements
Like your work. I've done several about the same way. I started using the Malibu, cutless and such clips. Works perfect.
Thanks! Many options out there. Most of them are front steer though and the steering box causes issues with the front tins
What is the best frame to 7se for a 54 sedan delivery if the original frame is bad, or how do I get a modern day suspension, front and rear to work, or how do Strother original frame
Strengthen
you should have used the four by fours for trans mounts they would blend with your subframe not something y would be driving
Huh?
Great info, but I would not use the center of the upper ball joints as a reference point unless it is noted to remove all of the alignment shims. The upper ball joint placement can be different side to side depending on the front end alignment. A safer reference point is the center of the lower ball joint which will not move.
Awesomeness
It looks like you're by yourself? I love fab work just sometimes I need a extra set of hands..
Yes I do 98% of the work by myself. Extra hands definitely are often needed, but you figure out ways to do things without when you have to
Totally unrelated but I just watched your video on the frame repair for the 57 chevy. You did a fine job and deserve more likes.
Andrew Morgan that was a quick ugly patch lol but super strong! Thanks for the comment. My skills have gotten quite a bit better since that time
Function over form!
HELLO TRYING TO BUY A 55 WITH A S-10 SWAP NOT SURE WHAT I AM LOOKING AT WITH THE FRAME PICS LOOKS WRONG DO YOU HAVE A EMAIL I CAN SEND A COUPLE PHOTOS PLEASE HELP? OR ANYONE WITH FRAME EXPERIENCE...
Wow, I really learned a lot in 26 minutes thanks!
Ray Hakw you're welcome! That's the goal :)
Nice work TM that slice will be plenty strong and the body lines look to be bang-on, and like you said once the weight of the engine and tins etc, it should look quite snazzy !! Thanks for the informative video !
1armedguy thanks for watching & commenting! It's really hard to tell if body lines are dead on or not without pushing the car out of the garage and looking at it
I bought a '54 Savoy with a somewhat amateurish S10 subframe swap. It's welded at a slight upward angle, should that concern me? Doesn't seem to affect the suspension geometry significantly.
If it works, it works. The weld quality and the ability to atleast handle without huge noticeable issues are the most important things to consider. Just keep an eye on it. Or take it to a highly qualified frame & alignment shop and see what they think.
Thanks for the tip, I never thought about spindle angle in relation to frame angle while welding it.
That angle is to keep the built in "anti dive" geometry created in the factory suspension of the clip donor car. You set the front stubs of the subframe level front to back and that is the angle the clip should be welded in at. This will keep the anti dive geometry correct, and to verify it look at the upper control arm mounting bolts. Front bolts should be noticeably higher than the rear.
I have a 1941 Master Deluxe 2 Door ,one owner ,my Late Father n Law ordered it new ,Picked it up at a train station in West Texas ,Just today I thought about buying a Chassis ,Set up for disc breaks ,coil overs ,Tubbed mebbe ,Mostly trying to Invision that Leather Seats from a 3rd Gen Camaro ,I may need to sleep in it ,so all the NICOTINE In my Lungs don't run to my head !
Thanks for sharing ,I'm too old to work like you ,Way too many broke bones in 63 Years , Appreciate any advice ,I may just listened or atleast get some ideas for comparison!
Thanks again Bruh !
🔊 GREAT VID BUT SKIP RUclips ADS GO TO THE END THEN RESTART 🚜
You going to pay the advertising revenue? I'll gladly have you pay the revenue and turn off the ads completely!
If I take on my car, would you consider confirming if I am measuring and doing it correctly? 😆
Lol not much I can do from here! Just gotta measure measure measure!
@@Tinman2Kustoms Im considering a frame swap haha
@@michiganpowerwashingpros yep! Done a few of those too!
Subscribed, you deserve more followers you do great work.
Thank you!!! I've been struggling for years to get more followers, just hasn't really picked up as much as I'd like. Oh well though right? Thank you for the kind words though, means a lot!
Forgot to add: does that POR15 clear coat stop rust permanently? I've done some projects where I wanted a permanent clear over mild steel, and I've yet to find one that works well.
It works good as long as it's not exposed to UV rays. You are correct, mild steel is very hard to clear and not get rust over time. I've tried a handful of things and nothing has worked flawlessly. The highest end 2k urethane clear will give the best results I would guess. I used por15 2k and it looks good, but did start to rust a little in select spots in a couple years
@@Tinman2Kustoms Thanks so much for letting me know your results! In addition to car work, I do metal sculpture that's meant to hang indoors. It also has balls rolling over it. Sounds like indoors the POR might work fine, but I'm wondering if the balls would wear it down over time. Balls. I've been researching for a good clear for several years now and have yet to get something I really like. That '40 is going to be badass, though, man. I really like that year. You do good work. Keep it up!
@@TomHaroldArt indoors the standard rust preventive por15 will work good. It's clear, but has a very slight gold tint to it. So keep that in mind. And the 40 is actually done! Just haven't had a chance to do all the videos yet. More of it can be seen in my Facebook or Instagram. facebook.com/tinman2kustoms
@@TomHaroldArt funny you mention the '40... Its actually on the cover of por15's 2020 catalog lol
Great stuff guys. Makes me miss my dad.
Me too
Nice job lot's of info , Just subscribed.
Thank you for the compliment and the sub :) lots more how to videos on my channel :)
Crown vic all day better
If you like ford products
You Have come a long way since your 1st BTT50s video, and the best to you
Yes 3 inch grinders are stupid, only for tight stuff
Not necessarily. Their are a lot more options for tooling. I use my 3" angle grinder more than any other tool in my shop.
Did u end up painting the frame with por15?
Wrench life 604 yes
I wish, now illegal in Australia.
Got the feeling Power Steering... Please No Stopping Now !!!
I need to make a custom subframe for my late fathers 73 dodge colt. It has a pinto front suspension and set up for SBC, i have no idea where to start.
Pinto suspension is fine.
My dad said it wasnt road worthy and sorta rigged together when be bought it. He wanted to teach me how to build a front end, but unfortunately got way to sick. So im left with his cars and ambitions, but no real knowledge of frame fabrication.
@@talonvaughn6175 Ahh I see! Have someone that may be experienced check it out and give you their opinion or advice. i suggest joining some facebook hotrod groups and posting there, a lot of helpful people (also a lot of assholes). BUt weed through that and make the best of the information you can get to learn from
Are there any subframes that can be mostly bolted on the 40-50’s ford trucks?
I doubt it
If you have old man money there are complete frames available
You must not have discovered mustang 2 crosmembers yet.
So much less work
Bumper brackets, fender brackets are all still there. It saves a lot of fabrication.
Also, where do you find a subframe anymore that doesn't need completely rebuilt?
I don't like mustang 2. Cost a lot more money usually too because you gotta buy new. I just look for them online. 67-69 Camaro & 68-74 Nova, Omega, Ventura, etc all have this same exact subframe.
Skills vs bills
Bad thing about M2 is weak brakes and wimpy suspension AND horrible geometry over Nova/Camaro subs have much better geometry and parts for better handling
@@MonzaRacer I agree. Always thought the mustang 2 setups seemed chincy. Plus I'm a Chevy guy.
Love the videos, keep them coming , thanks
Thank you for the positive comment and for watching! :)
use u joint
Your badass man learned alot. Thank you
You're welcome!
Good shit bro
Third haha
Great job! One thing. Center bolt valve covers do not mean it’s a vortec engine. GM started using them in the mid 80s when they change to roller cams. Vortec engine didn’t come out until 96. Look the same. But definitely not the same.
What kinda welder did you use can a 135 flex core do this type of job
I used a 110v solar mig, gas shielded. Flux core can work. But make sure you're good with a flux core welder and that the surfaces are well prepped. Gas shielded is almost always better though.
Thank you
Don't try to do frame or body work with flux core spend some cash and upgrade to gas shielding. For brackets and minor stuff it passable but proper gas shielding will develop stronger, cleaner welds. Well worth investment.
@@MonzaRacer Every hot built befor 1960/70 was welded with flux core If you learn on one it will be as strong a weld as gas ?
What’s the best metal thickness to use on frames
The thicker the better, to an extent.. And it depends on the shape and lots of other factors. But most are 3/16"-ish.
Where are you located and how to contact you!!?
Im located in Central Minnesota, but I am currently 2 years backed up and cannot take on any work. However, If you are serious about a full build, please inbox me on facebook facebook.com/tinman2kustoms
nice video sir
bigeddie1231 oh thanks! Hopefully it helps a few people!
Wow that's alot of work but it looks great like always love your videos
jcricket 1710 thanks man!!! And yeah subframing a car is a substantial amount of work for sure!!! Still fine tuning it. 6 months later lmao been working slow though
What brake Booster/Master Cylinder is that out of? Great work
The one mounted in car during the video
That's off of a box style s10. We didn't end up using it though. Went with a wilwood setup
@@Tinman2Kustoms Another question about the 7/16" plates you used for mounting engine. What's the distance of the main plate from the back of the crossmember to the rear of the plate? and what mount did you use/fab? I'm doing this same setup on my '36 chevy, with rear-steer sub from '68 camaro, auto trans, and our wheel bases should be the same at 113".
@@perryleblanc3469 I don't remember. Maybe 10"? Just used some 1/4" steel tabs that had a 1/2" hole that we welded onto that big plate and sandwiched the motor mount
@@Tinman2Kustoms Thanks
First
Marc Poirier woop woop! Haha
very nice work and great video
Thank you! Hopefully it helps :)
Crown Vic frames are NOT aluminum....
The newer ones are. The front cross member that would be swapped anyways.
Crossmember is aluminum not actual frame
@@MonzaRacer precisely
need some work done when are you located
william davis minnesota
thanks
I need help man lol
Love Your work!! Is there somting new that you been working on??
Johan Persson yup been working on the car that's in this video. Just always a lag between the actual work that's done and the videos
Tinman 2 Kustoms Love to see an upp date on what you done!! Cuz i have seen this jobb twise now xD btw sorry for bad eng (fan from Sweden!)
Johan Persson haha yes you have!!! The last episode was uploaded 2 weeks ago now I believe. I wanted to upload a complete & dedicated "how to" video to supplement my article in Rat Rod Magazine
Tinman 2 Kustoms okej!! I whatch the episode any way and wait untill i see some thing now xD haha Keep on working!!
Johan Persson thanks for following!!! Hoping that I'll have the next build video up in 2 weeks, but it kind of depends how things go!
Very cool.
Glad ya liked it!
grease=rust inhibitor
Yeah, it is. But I'm building a top notch show car lol
@@Tinman2Kustoms the grease kept the front clip usable instead of a rusty piece for the scrap bin
@@erniew5805 haha that's probably true!
@@Tinman2Kustoms great looking project
Turned out nice.
You're a great fabricator...Nice job on this '40 Chevy.
m schiffel thank you! Always improving the skills. More of this car/build will be coming on my RUclips, if you haven't subscribed already feel free to, subscribers see the videos first!
1/2" off ?
Yes. The measurement on the inital tack welded setup was 1/2" off. So that means move the nose of the subframe 1/4" in the proper direction, and it'll equate to being square because you are taking 1/4" off of one side and adding 1/4" to the other. This was done by cutting a tack, lightly tapping on the end with a hammer, and then tacking back up until it was within 1/16" off, when measuring diagonal.
Tinman 2 Kustoms ok thanks Did you do a 57 Chevy ? I have a 150 2 door I was wondering what front end did you use ,I also have a 37 Pontiac coupe that came with a factory installed Cadillac frame ,do you know would fit that front end , I have a 66 and a 68 el Camino frames a 68 GTO and a 70 chevelle , an Cadillac , 64 Buick ,70 olds station wagon frames to work with thanks tank
@@tanksoldier9770 I've never done a 57 Chevy, you'd just have to take a bunch of measurements and see what will work best for you. Too many variables to know without spending a few hours measuring and figuring.
Tinman 2 Kustoms thanks
Nicely done! That’s alot of work!...p.s. have you considered using flux core when your welding those downhands?
Mike na, too much work switching out wire lol not a fan of flux either. My welder is too small for frame work honestly. So I just try and burn it in nice and slow
Do you not measure the wheelbase is equal both sides?
Of course you do! Measuring in an x all the way to the rear of the vehicle is the best technique however. Always measure a bunch.