Sounds like Abby is not quite the perfect livestock dog, but she is still a perfect sweetie. And honestly, Toby Dog sets the bar really high for livestock dogs.
Not yet, but give her time. That is what his whole point is/was. He needs to continue to work with her. God Bless him for watching out for his feathered friends too!
Yeah the dogs we have had have all played with our birds (and killed em) as puppies except for a two. But as they get older they learn not to chase the stock unless to get them back to the coop. So who knows, maybe abby will be as good as toby as she gets older.
The breeder family is correct. The owner is at fault for Abby's upbringing. By posting these videos; he is going to destroy the trust that Maremma dog owners got which they may give up any Maremma dog they got all because this video spooked them out.
Morgan, you weren't callous about Abby's breeder, you were simply honest. Which is exactly what your viewers expect from you on your channel. Shady people always get mad when someone tells the truth about them.
Right from when she first came and I saw her first instincts with the cattle I knew she was a herding dog. She loves to run, she is a natural with the cows, and probably with goats and sheep as well. Her play instincts are perfect for cows. But, primarily you are a poultry farm, so yes she needs more work. You have one dog perfect for your birds and one for your cows. But, you still need to be able to trust her around your birds. Her kennel is half the square footage of my house for Pete sake! I think she is fine.
Not only that, but she's let out of her kennel in the morning (aside from when she's on limited movement due to being SPAYED). This breeder is like "she's been imprisoned for months!"
I wouldn't go as far as to call her a herding dog at all, herding is its own thing with a specific set of instincts required just like being a LGD. Chasing animals is actually the opposite of what you want in a herding dog too.
Yeah, I've seen small kennels and tbf, for a young dog who has gone after the livestock and is still in 'training'? That's not a small kennel, that's reasonable as she is also loose when it's time to 'work'. She's just growing out of that possibility to be a naughty dog and til she matures and settles a bit, keeping her in a kennel helps her by keeping her from messing up her job. Sure Toby can try to teach her, but human teaching is best and that takes a human there. Smh, Nothing wrong with that kennel. We've all seen her take her zoomies when she gets out and then chill and do the farm work.
It was his own fault. You don't get a dog based upon their reputation of base work line history and expect them to grow up to be exactly like what they were supposed to do. I have a Husky/Pitbull mix dog that I personally raised and trained starting from 3 months old into almost 1 year old now. My Husky/Pitbull boy dog is super good at protecting our backyard from intruders while at the same time safe guarding our bird nest that me and my family created in the backyard. Never once was I worried my dog boy would run around and decimate any wildlife that lands in our backyard unless I give him full permission. It seems like getting Abby dog was a poor choice from the start. He should had gotten a German Shepard or a Border Collie which their superior intelligence along with ability to herd would had been better than Abby dog.
The breeder in her blog states that Abby was socialized around poultry and the reason she chases chickens is because she’s kept in a kennel all day. If I remember correctly, Abby actually killed a chicken or two pretty early on BEFORE she had to be separated. That’s the very reason for the (very large) kennel. Had she not killed chickens, Morgan would not have had to separate her.
Yes! Thank you for bringing this up, all these people who don't actually watch his channel have no clue what they're talking about. He let her have full access to the 10 acres at night with Toby because he was locking up the birds but Blanche didn't go to bed and the next morning he found her half dead and Abby looking extremely guilty. He blamed HIMSELF and that's when the kennel went up. She'll learn eventually but kennel training is super normal for even inside house dogs, not just working dogs. The breeder is full of it.
This is a personal thought, but I think if what the breeder was telling the truth about Abby was raised around birds, I have a feeling the breeder probably let Abby chase the birds and encouraged her to do it and that's why it got worse and thatbis so hard to train it out of her.
I checked out the breeder's blog, because I like to get both sides of a story when making up my mind. After noticing several contradictions and obvious inaccuracies in her posts, seeing this comment from her about you in response to a supporter of hers told me all I needed to know: "I fear for (Abby's) safety, too. He can’t get rid of her without my permission but that won’t stop him from doing something bad to her and claiming she died mysteriously. I need a way to protect her from something like that." This woman is all about creating drama. Anyone who has watched your videos would know how much you care for *all* of your animals. To imply that you would harm Abby is reprehensible slander of the worst sort. Oh, and speaking of slander, I'm sure you're aware, but she's working on a legal case against you. So be sure to read and save her posts - and comments - for if/when she decides to file a false slander case against you. That lady is nuts.
@Dancing Daisies not really- sounds like he signed a contract in regards owning Abby, which means he has to abide by contract laws or he can get sued.
@@ananonymousbean2731 he hasn't violated anything in his contract and he wouldn't either. She's being dramatic and slandering his name. While he was being empathetic and addressing the concerns.
@@ananonymousbean2731 contracts across state lines for dogs are generally not enforceable. This breeder sounds more like a dog breeder and not a livestock guardian dog breeder. Abby waa purchased to perform a job, and if she can't perform that job, that's a financial loss for GSF.
@Dancing Daisies It's fairly common when buying (or even adopting) a dog to have to sign a contract saying you won't sell or give the dog away. I had to sign something like that when adopting a retired racing greyhound, and I've seen this in countless other animal adoption/sale contracts as well. According to the contract I signed, if I ever wanted to get rid of my greyhound, I would have to return her to the adoption group she came from, not sell or give her away. Contracts like those help ensure that dogs who come from reputable breeders/adoption groups remain in the homes that were evaluated and approved to house them, and aren't placed in a less desirable/appropriate situation. There are usually clauses included giving the group/breeder the right to reclaim the dog if they see evidence of abuse or neglect as well (from Abby's breeder's posts, it seems she also includes those bits). It's not really that unusual. What is unusual is Abby's breeder going crazy over nothing, making up lies, and insinuating abuse of a dog who is clearly not only well loved, but extremely well cared for. Morgan needs to be incredibly careful to never post anything that could even remotely be interpreted as abuse/neglect of Abby, lest this breeder attempt to reclaim her by force using the contract he signed. I'm talking about something as innocent as him accidentally stepping on Abby's paw while filming, and including that bit in the posted video. I could see this woman using that as proof of "abuse" to try to take Abby back. The breeder already admitted to adding a new clause to all future contracts about keeping dogs in kennels too much, giving her the right to reclaim dogs whose owners don't give them the exact amount of freedom and space she thinks they should have. She even calls it the "Abby" clause. Oof.
I have no idea why someone who has a public business gets worked up over criticism from a customer. Her response should be 'we've heard his concerns and we will work to fix this issue'. Not 'he's wrong, he's bad' etc etc.
I hope she genuinely reforms her business practices, because the market for Maremmas is good with so many turning to farming and homesteading, and she now has a big stain on her reputation. Others may come forward thanks to Morgan being so prominent and clear in his criticism. I won't say I will wish her ill will since Morgan was adamant about that, but i will say that the circle is small and others are watching, so she should behave with more comportment and professionalism. Those blog posts of her ain't it.
That’s how I felt reading her blog post. It is crazy there are people that run their business that way. She said she is traumatized by “how Morgan talked about Abby.” Like maybe don’t be a breeder if you get upset over comments like “her instinct with birds are to chase them.” “She has high pret drive.” Like She needs to grow thicker skin. But to me I think she’s just mad that she got called out for her duplicitous practices and now it’s hurting her bottom line
As a dog breeder, I have nothing but respect for you! Thank you for making the RIGHT decision in spaying her. You are absolutely in the right to spay a dog that is NOT breed appropriate temperament wise. So thank you for not perpetuating bad breeding practices. I just have to say how much I appreciate the effort you’ve put into giving this dog a wonderful life and accommodating your life to fit HER needs and where she is in her training.
How many people across the world have a dog on their couch who is a little mate to a champion beer to the show ring on the race track field trials et cetera. Yet they themselves physically haven’t come up to the mark or didn’t appear to be capable of doing so was a puppy and so they ended up on someone’s couch as a pet or doing the job they were originally intended to do Having been sterilised of at young age. Abby‘s breeder needs to remember that fact she also needs to clearly take out of production some of her breeding stock who are carrying genetic traits are not desirable for working livestock guardian dog both at work and as a breeding animal. For instance how many bitches in a litter you have bred on average which would be used for breeding down the line by either yourself or a third-party?
@@alistairjamesheaton9155 I am definitely a small scale breeder in comparison to most, 1, maybe 2 litters a year. I would say typically im lucky if I end up with 1-2 “show quality” meaning serious show quality puppies per litter! But do those dogs work out as breeding dogs in the end? Nope definitely not consistently! After titling, health testing (even with quality parents and lineage) can come back insufficient for my standards. I am extremely picky about my breeding stock as I am not a dog hoarder and never want to be. I limit myself to 6 dogs total in my house at any given time. I place my retired show and breeding dogs in loving family homes, most of the time they end up with puppy owners. When someone buys a puppy from me, I am here from the moment they are born to the moment they leave this world. I consider my puppy owners my family and I wish more breeders would put the effort in to do the same.
@@Cowgirlevie you sound like an awesome breeder, I aspire to be a good responsible breeder as well, I'm eventually looking to breed Australian shepherds for agility or possibly to be trained as service animals I'm not sure yet, but I do know that I'll be doing my best to keep track of any puppy I produce (or rather help produce), and all pups will be chipped in my name/address just in case, any puppies/dogs purchased from me that the owner can't keep will be returned to me so that they don't end up in a shelter somewhere, I'm always doing research because there's always something new to learn, and lastly I will NEVER breed two merles together, ever, to anyone not in the dog breeding community or who doesn't know, two merles, which is dogs with those big blotches of colour on a solid color backing, will produce what's called a double merle/lethal white which is usually a horribly sad thing to see, the puppies are often born almost blind/totally blind/far too small or no eyes at all/deaf/partially deaf which is an extremely irresponsible thing to let happen
When the breeder states Abby was “socialized around poultry” did she mean the frozen chicken aisle at her local supermarket? 🤦🏼♀️ You’ve clearly been sold a dog incompatible with the needs of your farm, but much respect to you for being a responsible owner and not giving-up on her. 🐶💕
Absolutely, she was untrained and completely blindsided by the presence of poultry on the farm. That breeder is lying through her teeth! Hope she is reading these comments
I’m guessing she was socialised but without supervision or correction. So she learned before coming to Morgan that chasing poultry is a fun rewarding past time. I’m guessing it’s part her herding nature in her and part learned behaviour before coming to Morgan. Chasing poultry is sure fun if you’re not told off when you do it. Just ask any human toddler who’s run into a flock of birds.
@@SarahsPets2004 I have 2 working line cattle dog puppies and I know exactly what you're talking about. She's chasing to catch, while my puppies work together to corner and stop whatever it is they're chasing while "aggressively" barking and nipping.
Morgan, I'm sure the advice of one voice amongst thousands means little, but I think it's best that you just ignore her. As a few others have said, she's just trying to cover her tracks after having a bit of a mark on her rep as a breeder, and feeding internet drama helps nobody. Albeit, it was important to adress the concerns with Abby dabby, so good on you for that ^^.
@@scottwatts3879 She is confused about a lot of things in my opinion. She’s marking her pups with paint because she is breeding so many of them that she isn’t capable of differentiating them anymore. Seeing all the drama involving her before the problem with Abby and her posts, she appears to be a pure commercial breeder who produces big numbers thinking only of prestige and money even if it’s detrimental for the genetics and health of her puppies and the breed. She had a bad reputation well before this drama with Morgan.
@@scottwatts3879 shouldn't breed inbred dogs for any purposes. It damages the health of the breed as a whole. Lazy breeding practices compounding over generation of dogs leads to widespread health of the breed.
Dude, as a farm owner if you were always showing the good I would be totally turned off. I appreciate you take the time to explain the goods, the bads and the optimism you use to approach all your projects. We all still love Abby and Toby so keep on keeping on!
As a breeder I am obligated to listen to my clients because if something comes up that involves the temperament or health of the kittens I am producing, it concerns me and involves me. Because I am the one who produced them. It's feed back to let me know if I should keep breeding the pair or that particular male or female so my program doesn't have issues. Little to add. I recently was informed of a passed litter I produced who 2 kittens had a temperament issue is did not like at all. I retired that female who produced them. Not worth it for the looks and color. Temperament is the focus. She was a risk I had hoped the Tom's temperament would balance out, but obviously didn't. So that was on me. She's now living a retired life with someone local
I'm a start up breeder for German shepherds because I love the breed and one saved me as a kid, I got my first males at the same time a pure white and a pure black with great genetics behind them. I had to close my white German shepherd line because of signs of aggression in my white male as a pup, and had him fixed a week after noticing the signs which stopped it in its tracks. I'm not getting rid of him he's still a good dog despite having to fix him. My black Shepard line is looking good, he has no agression at all, he's smart, temperament is wonderful anyone can pet him. Got my pure black female 2 years after I got my male, so he can breed with his female age 4 and she can breed with him at age 2. Currently she's 1 year, 6 months old already went through 2 heats, but still too young to breed. But She's looking good, smart, good genetics and also shows 0 aggression. My goal is to produce good shepard pups, where people can meet both parents without fear of getting bit.
There are things nobody can predict about a dog's temperament, but I like your take on this. I had a somewhat opposite experience with my former hunting dog (German pointer, died of old age 7 years ago), he was the smallest of his litter and the breeder recommended me another pup, but the way he came to me and cuddled into my hands made me chose him and he turned out to be the best dog I ever had, both as a hunting partner and daily companion.
You are one of the few really good ones then. Sadly people like you are really getting rare these days. As my main comment goes... I do not have any good memories regarding any breeders I personally had to deal with... I rather go for simple stray animals from shelters and have much better experience... The most traumatized dogs/cats/ birds what so ever.. are in better shape then most breeds... at least where I come from... so pls dont take it personal that I talk that negative about breeders. I simply have yet to get one without Desaster and currently I am at point where I say: "shelter only!"
@@k9thundra GSDs are in need of some good breeders. Their genetics are going in the toilet with anxiousness, hip issues, aggression (that comes from the anxiety) and just unstable. That had to be miserable for the dog to live like that.
She’s just trying to cover her butt after exposing the failings of her kennel by selling to a high profile buyer. If it weren’t you, I am sure someone else would have exposed her. I just feel for all of the buyers and dogs involved. Edit: And as for her living conditions, Abby has a more generous kennel than most LGDs. Heck, better than most breeders provide for their dogs!
@@UntamedDamia LOL, when I did works in my patio, I made a new workshop where one had been, and put power there. Then, I took the lines to a derelict one that was just at the side. 30 minutes after setting the power lines there, with a plug and a lamp, a stray cat mate that shop his home...
this is like the bear hound hunting thing all over again. Breeders/hunters attacking you with what just mainly appear to be lies and you calmly explaining and showing all the evidence that what theyre saying isnt true.
Well, people don't tend to think they rather gather as a crowd and follow whatever someone else says and figure they're right because one of their friends decides to be uncultured.
I agree but what I am asking myself is why do you buy from that breeder in the first place who seems to have obviously a bad track record? Overall good learning though to invest enough time in research :D
@@schmitt_happens1558 It's like what Amber Heard did to Johnny Depp. He didn't know of any bad reputation and was blinded by her charm. She badmouthed and treated him like crap throughout, but he couldn't see it. Once a deal was sealed, her facade had already slipped off, and she was already neck deep in plans for her exit-accusations.
You are nicer than I am that is for sure. You just love your dogs , but it is good you bring up the issues that possibly this breeder isn't on the ball or again, might be not a very ethical or smart breeder. Definitely get a DNA check as one other person commented. Not sure how much inbreeding is allowed for a breeder to be considered NOT a puppy mill, but is worth checking out.
The fact that she told you that the genetic hernia didn't matter because Abby had the "perfect temperament" is ridiculous, she's the most energetic and playful guard dog I've ever seen.
She's still a puppy, also animals are not robots or computer generated, they have different personalities temperament looks work ethic, she just needs more time then Toby and different training techniques, Morgan has his rose tinted glasses on and has the oh iv trained 1 dog already I know everything attitude
That is the happiest and most carefree dog if I’ve ever seen one. I think the only criticism I will agree with is that the thumbnails on your recent videos sends the wrong message. Your videos and content speak for themselves, making clickbait titles really turns people away and I can see where the breeder might have gotten the wrong impression is they’re not an avid watcher. Abby is turning out to be much more of a match as a cattle dog. Of course this is just going off from a few videos but she has the best energy to deal with and even go after any wandering baby calfs. It’s certainly a solution if you decided to have her work w them instead of the poultry.
I absolutely agree with this. While it's clear to anyone actually watching the videos that Abbey is living her best life over here and yea, is facing some training issues, the thumbnails are... misleading in a way and send the wrong message. You're absolutely not wrong to think of these questions, as you then have to sit down with yourself and have these hard talks, which is an important things to do. But sometimes framing the thumbnail differently may help. As for the breeder herself, she seems like a number of other poor breeders I've come across in the dog world as someone who is going down a similar road with Labradors. Sometimes we don't realize how much drama there is associated in this community but god is there a lot. And she just seems to be one of those types of breeders.
I agree with the thumbnails. They have been (a bit) click baity sometimes now recently. Usually I don't watch videos that are obvious click baits at all but I have watched Morgans videos because I knew it would be actual content and not just pure click bait. But even then yeah I agree. Even though I know "it's not what the thumbnail says" I still sometimes freak out a bit thinking "what's going on?!".
Yep, she's just reacting from the thumbnails, not actually watching the videos. She gets angry right off the bat and that's it. I'd recommend changing those thumbnails, and being more careful with them in the future.
I love Morgan, but I agree with you about the thumbnails. He doesn't need clickbait titles with this many subscribers. It's just insulting us at this point.
I'm only 9 minutes in, but I think it was right that he didn't breed Abby Because if you want to be a GOOD breeder, you got to breed only the most healthiest and good temperament of dogs They can't have hip issues or anything, they got to be HEALTH For you to be a good, responsible breeder I do want to say, if you haven't been doing this already Maybe when Abby looks at the birds then back at you, you say good girl, and maybe give her a treat after words Basically teaching her, looking at the birds then back at me is a good thing Even when she's watching the baby birds without being playful should be praised, and if you caaaan- If you see her about to want to play with the birds, get her attention, have her sit down instead So she snaps out of wanting to play with the birds I hope that helps! I'm now 14 minutes in and....I will say, I enjoy how open and honest you are, you're telling people how you think and feel about it, and at first people might not agree with you, but after you dig deeper into why you thought that way....I'm someone who agrees with what you do You're an amazing person and I look up too, to be a good person and pet owner and whatever else
In fairness, if you slow the video and read what the breeder has to say, it seems very reasonable. She claims that the hernia thing is a minor issue and that it does not prevent these dogs receiving championship prizes, that other breeding attributes of the dog are more important, e.g. temperament and hips. Plus she offered to refund all outlaid money including Abby's surgery and transport.
@@si_vis_amari_ama but hernias request surgery since not all organs are at their place. In Abby’s case its very likely it’s genetic. Breeding dogs that need surgery is a no go.
@@jalifritz8033 tell me you know nothing about dog breeding with out telling me you know nothing about dog breeding! It would be extremely rare for an umbilical hernia to cause organs to be out of place, most vets only repair them on bitches because it’s close to where a spay would take place, so makes sense to do it while there just because. On dogs it’s 50/50 whether they are done because unless the vet is doing surgery in that area or it’s an unusually large hernia it can be left with no problems occurring.
@@jalifritz8033 umbilical hernias are the same thing as people with an outi belly button. The idea that it's some type of genetic issue is hysterical. There are different types of hernias that are problematic but not an umbilical hernia... you don't know anything about breeding you're just speculating.
Hi Morgan, I have no clue if my messages have any value to you, but I'm trying to share from my experience as a former breeder. I didn't breed Maremmas, but German Pointers, which are also working dogs with a different area of expertise (also including birds, which the dog isn't allowed to play with or hunt by himself, willy-nilly). What I can tell you so far is : 1. The only genetic predisposition to umbilical hernia is a weak abdominal wall as a puppy (and the predisposition of the mother to lack patience and be brutal), which doesn't say much about the adult dog. I have talked about the umbilical hernia issue before, and I see it as a very small problem (if the hernia is not a huge one), if one at all. 2. Abby was NOT desensitized or trained to birds by the breeder. EVER. I can make an average German Pointer to not hunt livestock birds if I have it as a 1,5 - 2 months old puppy, and it's a bird hunting breed. The breeder simply lied to you. That's why she recommended that you put Abby in with the cattle, because she knew ahead of time about her bird issues, and STILL lied to you and sold you - for a lot of money - a dog that was, at the time, unfit for the work you declared you wanted to do with her. You will have your work cut out for you, but if you persist, you can still train her, although it is much harder now. 3. The breeding with Toby issue. No dogs were bred in this scenario, so she has NOTHING to say about that. If Toby couldn't be registered, you could have bred her with a registered dog from Toby's line anytime you wanted. In short, it's none of her business, as long as you didn't breed an unregistered dog. Did she expect you to breed her without the necessary tests, or what ? You should do the tests anyway, to assess her genetic health and know what to expect when she gets older. 3. Any breeder who tells you that they are targeted by or have issues with the breed club is a problem breeder. 4. Any breeder who whines about competitors (I saw the word mentioned in one of her posts you showed) is a problem breeder. 5. The number of puppies they sell is not an issue, unless it is linked to overbreeding their dogs. I hope this helps. P.S. I still have 2 adopted German Pointers, but I've given up on breeding (from lack of time) a long time ago. My breeding dogs were champions and parents of champions and I never owned more than 2 adult breeding females at the same time (breeding dogs wasn't my source of income).
I myself own LGDs and have purchased from breeders before (not the one Morgan purchased from, however) and the second point you make isn’t necessarily true. I’ve found that even the most extensively socialized puppies can still act exactly that… like puppies. They’re still young, and often when they’re first introduced into a new situation like a new home, they’ll try to push buttons and test the waters to see what they can get away with. I think the initial experience with raising Toby(who generally was a much easier puppy to train) has made Abby’s issues go improperly trained.
@@GoldShawFarm I'm from wnc mountains. It is harsh, but when a farm dog kills a bird, you tie it to their collar till it rots, and they will never go for one again. Do what you think best. You are doing great. Thank you for sharing your world with us.
I wish more breeders were like you. Not making a n income out of puppy breeding but doing it because they are a beautiful thing to do. They are so much work! I recently bottle fed a rescue litter of 5 that was abandoned in a box. They take a lot of time. Then you completely fall in love with them because you truly put so much work into them. I respect when people do what I call sensible breeding. Thank you! My hope is that some day animals will have more rights than they do today and they will be treated more sensibly 😉
You can bet the breeder wanted to buy Abby back so she could use Abby as a breeding female. I really think you should do a DNA test on Abby. Considering what we've seen of the breeder's behaviours, I am very suspicious that Abby might have other hidden genetic conditions. If she does have something lurking in her genes, you need to know.
@@strawhat9197 not really. genetics tests will include conditions Abby can be predisposed to, regardless if she's spayed. and it'll say if she's truly 100% Maremma.
@@strawhat9197 I'm aware. I'm not saying this in regards to her having puppies, but for her own health. What worries me is that some conditions don't always show up when a dog is young. What if she has genes that give her a higher risk for cancer or something? It's better to be safe than sorry.
@@TeenDream888 You should also be worried of Abby getting spayed at 9 months old. I read comments in this video of people worrying about it saying she was too young for that, for such a large dog.
If the breeder says that this is another video attacking her, she's wrong. This is you clearing up as many of her falsely made accusations that you can. We all love you, Abby, Toby, and all the cows. Don't let anyone say what you can or can't do.
Yup, the breeder’s words are the actual allegations that could ruin Morgan while he’s just stating things as is. Plus if she really was a responsible breeder, she wouldn’t be giving puppies away when they show sign of a genetic disorder, she’d be trying to research to see if there anything wrong first. Plus her outburst simply cements her nonprofessionalism so if ppl stops their business with her, that’s ALL on her and no one else.
@@Flowergurl2000 True. Because ultimately even if she is in the cows is winter quarters there is going to be chickens appearing all living in the same space with them and also in the summer they’ll be out with Morgan’s cowherd.
What do you mean by cattle guard dog? As long as there is no wolves in his area cattle don't need to be protected from anything. And wolves are extinct in Vermont. I think it is best to give/sell Abby as pet to someone and get a new dog, if he still needs.
@@mustafayldrm3449 He made it clear he's not going to give/sell the dog. He definitely loves Abby just takes time for him to train her, just because she's good in one area doesn't mean she doesn't need to work on other areas that she needs to be taught. I understand it's frustrating to see but that does comes in the price but he knows the price and he's willing to go through with taking care of the dog.
The fact the breeder expressed the concern of people returning or selling their own puppies because they don't have the correct temperament, does make me think that this isn't the first time buyers complaining about temperament issues have come up for her. A few people who have read her blog have said she's written about previous issues of puppies killing her ducks. I haven't look to check myself, but if that's the case, it's definitely a standing issue with their temperaments, and it should've been disclosed that she's had previous issues with them killing birds, and as such might need more training around poultry than most meremas. My guess is she breeds them as pets rather than as LGDs. I would actually suggest getting Abby a DNA test done. If she's a mix further back or is inbred, she might have health predispositions you're not aware of. Choose a DNA test that measures her COI. That will tell you if she's inbred. If the breeder is overbreeding (which is certainly sounds like), the chances there's also some inbreeding are higher.
There is that rule. If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you're an asshole. If she had numerously problems reported from multiple people, they likelihood of her being the problem is significantly high.
Yes, that temperament issue seems more important to me than the hernia issue. The dogs are supposed to protect the animals, not kill them. Abby's breeder and this other breeder on RUclips have been going on about how you have to do a lot of work with your dog for the first two years to be able to trust them around the animals they're expected to protect. Are you kidding me??? Aren't these livestock GUARDIAN dogs? And it's weird that the puppy specifically chosen by the breeder to work with poultry was focused on the poultry in a not good way from day one. But who knows? Maybe that was the calmest puppy in the litter.
my exact thoughts. we see how hard it was for morgan to find a breeder not connected to toby so do we really think this lady is going through all of that? enough to run a business of many litters? breeders are infamous for inbreeding.
As someone who raises and owns LGDs and is very involved in the community, LGD puppies are very likely to kill poultry if given the right opportunity. They're puppies and it's not a defect of their LGD instincts, they're just dog toddlers that don't know any better and want to play with their feathery toys. It's the job of the owner to not set them up for failure and leave them in situations where they're likely to act on their bad behavior. I don't know the breeder's set up, but it's harmful to speculate the breeder is breeding bad temperaments based on that alone. Of note, Toby seems to have been trained very differently from Abby, and was not allowed unsupervised contact with the birds (he had a perimeter fence surrounding the duck pen for most of his adolescence IIRC). Abby, under the tutelege of Toby was given much more freedom than Toby at her age. Thus, her opportunity for failure was much higher.
@@ColonelKlink100 LGDs are big dogs, and they take a while to mature. Abby is less than a year old. Would you trust a giant 7 year old to reliably make good decisions? LGD owners know that good dogs take work, and 2 years is the baseline most trainers will set for being able to trust an LGD UNSUPERVISED. It's a very common story among LGD owners for their untrustworthy dogs who harm/chase livestock, bark excessively or exhibit other undesirable behaviors will suddenly turn in to model dogs after a period, like a switch was turned. An owner can do everything right and still end up with a dog that misbehaves. Sometimes it may be that that dog isn't a good fit for their operation, but sometimes they just need to give it a bit of time. Morgan likes to hail Toby as a 'natural', and to a certain extent there are dogs that just seem to have some 'poultry guarding gene' and they take to birds like most other LGDs take to hoofstock. But I'm sure there was more than Morgan probably realizes that went into Toby's training to make him the model LGD he is today, and from what we've seen on the channel, IMO it seems Morgan may have relied too heavily on Toby mentoring and supervising Abby, and trusting that Toby would correct her bad behaviors when he isn't there to watch her.
The fact that she is downplaying the hernia in her puppies and likely still breeding the parents, means her attacks are more about her fear of losing the 3K per future puppies, not that she cares about producing better dogs.
Her reasoning for it was morgan never had breeding rights in the first place, so it shouldn’t matter if the hernia was genetic or not because he shouldn’t be breeding her regardless, but it’s still fishy on both sides.
That breeder is trying to put the blame on you so she can keep on selling her poorly bred dogs you are not in the wrong at all , keep up the great work. Love you’re vids!
Not just poorly bred but poorly trained. the breeder had Abby for extra time promising to expose and train Abby around poultry. she obviously didn't do any of that and it shows. A pups first 4 months of life is critical in training around other animals.
@@k9thundra I fully agree on that part I think that it is partly Morgan’s fault for buying the dog so late on in its life, but saying that you will expose the dog to poultry and the elements and not doing that is such a stupid thing to do it can ruin the dogs whole life and cost the owner so much money
@@k9thundra Yep. And IMO that’s the reason Toby was far easier to train…bc he got him much younger! Which is something I’ve commented on multiple videos since he 1st got Abbie. I admire & respect him for being dedicated to keeping her. But I hope if he every gets another dog to potentially breed with Toby that he gets it at the same age as he got Toby. There is a reason that nearly all specially trained dogs start their training at a VERY early age. There is some truth to the saying “can’t teach an old dog new tricks” & more truth to “you can’t unteach an old dog bad habits”. Both ARE possible…but typically only with extreme persistence & patience.
I found you when I wanted ducks last year and was preparing for them this spring. You care deeply for your animals and it shows. When she asked “why would you keep a dog that’s considered a ‘failure’?” My immediate response was because it’s a pet above all else! Our two ducks are for eggs, but we also don’t plan on killing them once they stop producing. They bring absolute joy into our lives and our dog has super high prey drive as well and wants to kill them, so we have their run in a fenced off area of our yard. We aren’t going to get rid of either of them, just take precautions to keep them safe. Animals are more than property, they’re living beings and I am glad you kept Abby because she is an integral part of your farm family now. ♥️ Forever my favourite farmer, love a duck mum in the city. 🥰🦆
Ok as a breeder I can see some problems with how the breeder sold Abby. Now please note that I breed rats not dogs and while I'm not trying to say my way is perfect, it's a example. 1. I would never breed rats with genetic health problems, and I especially wouldn't sell a rat with a ghp knowing buyer wants to breed said rat. 2. Most rats are categorized by breeder, pet, or feeder. Breeder rats are rats that are still pets but have idle features for breeding ( healthy, and good temperament). Pets are rats who are healthy and have great temperaments but may have a ghp making them unfit for breeding, they're make great pets but not for breeding. Feeders are rats that aren't healthy, deformed ( think missing organs, most rats that are deaf, blind or missing a limb or toe, live full happy life's. of course I wouldn't sell them tho) , or have poor temperament ( aggressive, health problems that can't be cured or will worsen thier life, or are still born.) these rats are humanly euthanized and sold for pet food. Really she shouldn't have sold you Abby knowing you wanted to breed, and is a poultry farm. She really should have told you this pup isn't fit for breeding due to ghp which has a high chance of passing on in her pups, and that she may not be fit for poultry due to high energy and would do better with goats and sheep.
Seems there is a standard across the board. I am a Vet and work with companion animals. Most breeders like you are great to work with. Then you get the flaky ones.
I want to be a dog breeder and have had two dogs who haven't been fit for breeding so 100% agree. One I couldn't breed as despite great health she is very fearful and just does not have the temperament I would want in a dog and the other has a brilliant temperament and drive but has shown signs of mild epilepsy and carries a codominant gene which whilst doesn't directly affect his health can make it harder to diagnose health conditions related to his liver so I chose not to breed from either. Breeding done right takes a lot of time, commitment and money so it would concern me that people would breed dogs who have shown they may not be good to breed and suggests they may be in it more for the money than to improve or contribute to the breed
I think she heard "Livestock" Guardian dog and thought it only pertained to cattle and goats and the like, not poultry. I think the breeder just let Abby chase birds and didn't take him seriously.
@Elle exactly I wish breeders like her didn't happen it gives all of us a bad rap, and even worse is the more animals are bred with disregard for ghp the the breed is worsen as a whole
Honestly, in my experience with dobermans, the breeder can make such a huge difference in temperament of the dogs. We got a doberman, and he was a cute puppy, but as he became a teenager, he started attacking our jackrussels. He almost killed one of them, had him by the throat and shaking his head. I had to pry his mouth open with my hands. We did everything we could to reintegrate them. To curb his aggression and resource protection behavior. But we couldn't. And that was the first and only doberman we had that problem with. And it turns out the 'reputatable' breeder was in fact not reputable and the dog was very inbred.
Gosh! What a terrifying experience! As an adult, I have no needs for my pets to fill. I've been getting discarded pets for years. Such love and companionship is a wonderful blessing. I cannot imagine how difficult it was to deal with that situation. Very sad. So sorry for your losses all around. God bless you.
You do have to admit that terriers are pretty provocative at times, themselves. They don't care if the other dog is 10 times bigger! That being said, as a breeder/exhibitor/groomer/vet assistant for most of my 6+decades, I believe that temperament is inherited 100%. Now, that temperament can be molded, for good or bad, but basically, if a dog is aggressive, whether to other dogs or humans, or both, no amount of training will make them fool proof. Ever. So, yes, the Breeder is the first place to look, but not so much for rearing the puppies, but for carefully choosing parents with excellent temperaments. You can certainly ruin a dog with a good temperament. But, I do not believe, that you can change a temperament. So yes, some folks work hard with aggressive dogs, and it may seem they are OK after a long, tedious, dedicated while, but they are never to be trusted.
@@justicedemocrat9357 No we did not put him down. Thankfully he wasn't aggressive towards humans. We gave him to a doberman rescue who was able to rehome him to a home with no other animals and only adults. We would have tried to find a home for him ourselves, but at the time my mom was starting to die from cancer, and we didn't have the time or resources.
Some people just like to deflect blame onto others like that breeder. I love you channel and it helps me get thru my depression. Dark times lately and I’m so happy I found this channel.
@@hjjjhkj What part of he's with her no less than 6 hours A DAY, much of that dedicated to working on training, do you not understand??? Seriously, watch the damn video and listen to his words.. .SMH
If the last 5 years in veterinary medicine have taught me anything it's that 99.9999999% of all dog breeders are sketchy AF. Truly good dog breeders are about as rare as a rainbow at night. Btw I think you're obviously an amazing dog owner, like definitely in the top 1% of dog owners, how many dog owners can say they spend 6 hours a day on training that's phenomenal!
Breeders are not geneticists. Their isn’t enough regulations on breeding at all. Breeding usually does more harm than good. And at the end it it an income for them.
I can say I spent every hour of the day minus the time sleeping raising my four dogs… and the one time I fell asleep during the day and didn’t crate my border collies I woke up to find my room ransacked 🤣 And the result is awesome well behaved dogs… sometimes they need an e-collar beep though due to instincts and youthful exuberance 😊
600 sq ft? That's a mansion. There are people living full-time in RVs that are only 400 sq ft. Seriously Morgan, don't let the biatch get to you. We all know how much you love your animals.
Its a small house in Europe lol, she has plenty of space, surrounded by activity from the birds and gets to go out every day, sounds like a good prison to me
Shouting accusations and making threats means that no one sane will ever buy from that breeder again. Abby looks like a happy well adjusted dog with plenty of space, attention and stimulation for her to enjoy her life at the farm. (especially spaces for her to dig.)
Morgan, you’re a good man. Responsible bird farmer. Good to all your animals. Challenged in the garden. I learn something every time I watch. It’s why I watch you and Allison. 🙂
Same here I not trying to be mean to the breeder but she should have tell about that but that my opinion but abby is a good dog so she can leave yall be it ur opinion not her
@@Ladydawnthewoodduck She had mentioned it but basically just let it slide on by as if it was nothing to be concerned about. Really she was under no obligation to not sell the puppies but it is on the future owner of the pups not to buy them when aware of the umbilical hernia and intending to breed more dogs.
This is curious. Your comment came hour sooner than video was published to audience. Sooucking up? But person speaking in video is trying, but he got dogs /I think, both of them/ wrong. And he does what any dog owner should never do, and that is speaking ill before any creature who could grasp 5000-7000 words of human language. So maybe good husband, cat owner, poultry feeder, but despicable dog owner. It shows, because he choose breed which is unsuitable for beginner, he choose breed which is not suitable to any animal he got on his farm, because white Pyreneeses and their sub-species are specifically breed for sheep and even then they need special training starting from 6-7 week. There is actually no species of dogs which “shepard” poultry, there are only dog breeds which are amenable to guard poultry pens and fences without trying to cull the fence and feathery animals also. So wrong, man/Morgan. Also Tobby is gem, but I would be not sure about his tendencies after 2+ yr. More in my separate comments, as of biologist and person who had always dog and I come from country when one of white sub-Pyrenees dog originate, so was in contact with more than 20 adult specimens in my life, to never want to own adult one.
Dog trainer here (obedience, agility, protection, felony and evidence search). The goal of any training is to channel the dog's behavior to help the dog develop it's full potential. Prey drive (ie the stalk, chase, capture, kill sequence) and defensive drive are present to some degree in all dogs, and the balance of these drives often changes as the dog matures. Each dog is an individual and the rate of maturation and the overall level and balance of these basic drives is unique to the individual. Keep in mind that it is always better to set a dog up for success than correct it after the fact. The basic tenet of dog training is that dogs learn through motivation, not correction. Correction is used only to reduce the undesirable behavior when a well-schooled dog steps out of line. Keep these steps in mind whenever you train: 1. show the dog what you want it to do 2. help the dog understand the task 3. perfect the exercise Give Abbey time. Large breed dogs mature more slowly and Abbey won't be fully mature until she's 2-3 yo. Some dogs are responsive from day one and some dogs are unruly, undisciplined and have no self-control when they are kids, then one day, like magic, they settle down. Abbey will be on steps 1 and 2 for a long time. I haven't seen all the Abbey videos, so forgive me if I comment on something you've already addressed. I have a few suggestions that might make Abbey's training a little smoother. Distraction and redirection: You need to motivate Abbey in a way that resonates with her. Learn to make yourself a bigger draw than the birds. Distract her, and when you have even a flicker of her attention, try to redirect her prey drive to an alternate target (ball, toy), something she really enjoys and which you use only for this purpose. Practice being the best, most fun owner during her regular obedience sessions, so you both learn the correct behaviors and you can deploy your inner clown self at the drop of a hat. It's hard work, juggling and doing back flips, but that work will pay off in the long run. Remember, distraction and redirection are the goals. Abbey's free-range area should be reduced significantly. It should small enough that she is unable to begin the chase/capture/kill part of the sequence. A smaller area also means you will be more able to distract and redirect her before she gets out of hand. You really need to be on your toes and interrupt her (distraction) at the earliest possible moment of the prey drive sequence and redirect her attention. Watching video of her prior crimes to determine the moment she makes the go/no-go decision will help you get ahead of her. Eliminate the correction: Don't yell at her or chase her around if you can help it. Yelling and chasing can be interpreted as threatening behavior and can reduce her trust in you. You want to draw Abbey to you, rather than have her try to out maneuver you. If you absolutely cannot distract her, dive in between Abbey and her prey, then switch to distraction/redirection techniques to draw her in and channel her behavior to an appropriate outlet. Always reward her the moment you have her attention (even for a second) and don't bother correcting her when she makes mistakes. When you are able to divert her attention to you EVERY TIME, and she has a solid response to you and has shown consistency for a few weeks, then you can introduce correction when if she backslides. Remember, Abbey learns something from every attempt she makes. If the lesson is that Dad-play is way more fun than the birds, it's worth every bit of effort you put in. It will address the problem and build a stronger bond better you and your dog. I hope that helps. Abbey's a beautiful dog and worth every ounce of effort you put in. She's just going to take more time than you anticipated. Good luck and go have some fun with her!
Very good advice in dog training, but Maremma's are a whole breed of thier own, you cant train them in the sence of your pet, they are extreme free thinkers and will do what they think to what needs to be done in order to protect the animals and humans they are bonded too, wolf blood 🐵
@@mandyschlitt7834 The same basics still apply because it's still a dog, working, pet or guard dog doesn't matter. It's all training to get your dog to focus and look at you in the first place, if you can't get that done you wont get your dog to do much else consistently. Different breeds might have some differences in what needs more attention but the core stays the same and this guy described it perfectly. If you get that down with your dog, you're set and will have a much easier time with more advanced training (whatever that is, pet, guard, lifestock, service dog). I've seen too many people go as far as 'ruin' their dog and give them to a shelter (or worse, abandoning them), because they think to skip the basics and either go to 'breed specific training' (in vain, because they cant communicate with their dog), or think the basics don't apply to their dog at all. And what do they all say? 'This dog has problems'. No it really does not. They're the ones with problems. Never discard what this guy said because you're working with a specific breed. It applies to all dogs! It's very important for everyone to remember that before moving on to anything else.
How about he actually trains her to guard the livestock in the first place, instead of all of this indirectness of abstract general obedience lessons? He should still do the obedience sessions daily, but has he ever taught her what he expects her to do as a guard dog, or boarded her in a program for that? Or does she actually have nothing to do all day, except occasionally listen to him for a split second, and is basically unemployed and a puppy with tons of energy and a natural prey drive?
@@blueraven0075 The principles of training are the same regardless of the task/behavior you are training the dog to perform or how basic or advanced the level of training you are doing. Generally, stock dogs like border collies are trained in a methodical, progressive fashion, with a good deal of handler involvement. It makes sense to train this way because the dog and handler will be working as a team - the dog is never sent out the door to go herd sheep by itself. Livestock guardian dogs are more along the lines of "solo practitioners" and do their jobs independent of a human handler. Once the dog learns the basics of not harassing the stock, the dog is given small increments of responsibility under the handler's eye until their instinct to take responsibility for their stock combined with their protective instincts takes over. When they are paired with an older, more experienced dog, they gradually learn to model that dog's behavior. At no point should young dogs have free reign with the stock - it's too easy for them to learn the wrong lessons. Puppies like Abbey should only be given a small area in which to interact with stock, under the handler's supervision. I've made some very basic, low effort suggestions on this thread. And even then these posts are overly long. I'm sure if Morgan wanted specifics, he'd contact me.
@@BuzzyStreet I like most of your points, but the same principle that I trained my golden retriever to retrieve when hunting and spent times with him on that, or attack dogs are trained to attack, I would train my dog to guard too, directly, practicing different scenarios. Maybe it’ll work if he doesn’t directly practice realistically, maybe it won’t. But if it doesn’t, it’s insane to blame it on her personality or genetics to me, just assuming she’ll do it, and partially spay her for that. I don’t think not harassing enough personally, I would at least dress up myself or someone else in realistic costumes and chase the chickens and tell my dog to attack or stop. I hope he calls you though.
I got a German shepherd pup from a breeder that didn't remove the back dewclaws when he was born. I had to pay for the surgery to get them removed. Keeping them would of been a risk of them getting ripped of while running around and him bleeding to death.
Her living space is bigger than my first apartment, baby girl is doing just fine LOL-- jokes aside, you did a great job on addressing the breeder in this video, good on you for standing up for Abby and your farm!
First apt? It’s bigger than the house I’m living in now. Abby even has a bigger yard than I do. I’m jealous. Plus she gets three square meals a day… lucky pup.
As a city girl who sometimes dreams of escaping to farm life, I appreciate your honesty and transparency when it comes to both how rewarding yet challenging your lifestyle can be. Yes, as you said in the video, there may be improvements as to how you communicate that honesty. Mistakes and misunderstandings are part of the journey, on both sides. But, ultimately, your integrity and kindness should shine through. I'm excited to see how Abby will grow with you. She's a bit of a handful, but she's dedicated and sweet, too. Good luck!
Absolutely! I use Morgan as a learning tool for when I can finally do the same thing and escape city life. He openly posts his mistakes and we can learn from his mistakes. He had said that a few times! To help others like him to learn from his mistakes! I love Morgan...he is my idol!
Hey Morgan I was wondering if you’d ever consider adding subtitles to your videos? I have a hearing disorder and auto subtitles are never very accurate. It would make watching your videos much more enjoyable and I’m sure your hard of hearing and deaf followers would appreciate it
Have you tried the closed captioning that is built in? That's what I use for my lack of hearing. I'm guessing it isnt always accurate but it gets the job done. =)
I think the decision from the breeder that it was best to keep Abby from bird exposure for the first three months alone is a telltale sign that you weren’t the one in the wrong, early exposure is very important especially when she has a bigger prey drive. I find it very hard to believe from Abby’s behaviour that the breeder socialized her with birds at all
I think you handled this beautifully. You were so gentle and calm. GREAT JOB. And honestly, your posts about your troubles are doing a HUGE service to new homesteaders who think they need a LGD but don't know the first thing about them and think you just put the dog out with the critters and they know what to do and everything goes swimmingly. I particularly loved your last line about how for you this is frustrating but for her its trauma. Beautiful insight. My one piece of advice would be, now that you've covered it, don't feed any more fuel to her fire by continuing to address her issues with you. There's this great line, "When you finally learn that a person's behavior has more to do with their own internal struggle than it ever did with you, you learn grace." She will not be dropping this. But anyone with a healthy mindset will be able to see where she's at and how she's thriving on the drama triangle (worth googling by the way, if you don't know the term). Keep giving us updates on Abby. But leave the breeder out of it from now on. She'll find her own way, or not, but its none of your business what she thinks of you at this point.
He's using his clout and superiority to gain support for his beliefs, at which he's not responsible for accepting a dog with a genetic disorder. She even offered to buy the dog back. But him being a business man said she should pay him 4000 dollars. His words! Why is he getting attached to a failure a disappointment a genetic reject, if the sole purpose of this dog was to breed and to be a Live stock guardian dog, not a pet a house dog a companion. I knew when I fist saw Abby her behavior was very different from other LGDs I've seen before. To top it off, no professional training to ween out bad habits and unwanted behavior traits. At the end of it all, I see it one one-way and your see it differently.
@@Jo3W3st but he also states that he figured that the $4,000 would be a starting point and that they would go back and forth until you come to a mutual agreement. That is how it works. One side is high and the other is low and the two of you go back and forth. Just like if you go to a pawn shop to sell something or buy something from them you can have that along with buying a vehicle and a house.
@@Jo3W3st did you watch the video? He didn't call her a failure or a disappointment. Those are dramatic video titles to grab attention, most successful RUclipsrs do that and he shared a clip from the video where he specifically said to answer the question no she's not a failure. He also didn't say genetic reject. He explained why he felt it was the responsible thing to do to spay her and not risk passing on the high prey drive. I'm not sure why you feel that's an insult rather than a responsible decision?
I'm only really involved with horses, and let me tell you the drama in this industry is nuts. But it's honestly true of any type of livestock. Animals attract the worst kinds of people.
i'm so sorry they decided to attack you for your perfectly reasonable stance on not breeding abby for her imperfections when it comes to breeding specifically for guard dogs, but instead continuing to love her and train her anyway. i really respect the calm, compassionate way you handled this. i hope this didn't hurt you guys too much, much love from canada
Some dogs, bred for specific tasks, will not excel in said task. It's completely normal and a breeder should know that. Let's say if a shepherd buys a Border Collie that ends up incontrollable around sheep because the dog has zero herding instinct, he'd be right for calling that dog a failure in that one specific regard (if the issues weren't caused by bad training). It's probably still an amazing dog, but of no use to the shepherd.
I do find that you pick titles that are leading, like "Is she a Disappointment?" but I understand that this is a RUclips platform and you need to make an income from your videos. I would rather have seen a title like "Abby: What has she got against chickens?" or something less negative. But really, this is you and your style. You keep doing you, and I'll keep watching. Thank you for posting.
This was my thought. If you post a thumbnail for a video discussing Abby and the thumbnail has "failure" in it or in the title it could be construed, at best, as misleading if they watch the entire video and, at worst, as you outright calling Abby a failure. Just some food for thought for how you handle future videos.
I noticed that as well and don't like it but do understand the nature of RUclips that encourages, even requires, such creativity. It's annoying but goes with the territory.
I'm one of the strange people who actually love your videos. I had a Hungarian Kuvasz Kennel here in Sweden. So Toby dog and Abby girl are my favourites. I share the opinion of your Headlines for your videos. Disappoint and Failure made me stand on Abby's side turning against you. Because Abby can never ever be those things. So I started looking at the videos in anxiety and anger; Just the opposite of why I'm following. you. So continue your good work with your farm. Share the every day life of 😺😽😼🦴🌾🌷🌻☘️❄️🌅🐺🐍🦬🐂🐔🐓🐤🐥🦤🦆🐝🍙🍘🥇💵🧮🧾⚒️🪚
If you are younger than 98 years old and know about the internet, then you know what clickbait is. If she is using the titles as stand alone arguments then she really just wants to be angry. It's like fighting about the flashy cover of a book.
I'm definitely annoyed at her lack of taking any personal accountability when it comes to addressing the hernias but it is what it is. Abby is loved and well taken care of and deep down she knows it. The article felt too much like gaslighting for me.
the fact that the breeder wrote THAT MUCH about how they ‘definitely aren’t a bad breeder’, by saying different things while lying, shows how insecure they are, and the allegations that the breeder is bad, are probably true. normal people don’t just write over 10,000 words about true statements about them. gold shaw farm wasn’t even being rude, he was just stating what his experience was like with that breeder
@@Tidalx morgan said not to go and harass or send death threats to the breeder, and whatever people do, is not in morgan’s control. morgan was very nice and considerate to the breeder, and if the breeder doesn’t recognize his kindness and keeps telling lies about him, i think the breeder is not a very good person to begin with.
@@jacobharding5843 anyone with a big media presence should know that even if they say 100 times to not interact with someone they criticise, their fans will still do it. morgan is well aware of this because it has happened time and again. he has a big platform and likes to use it, when he should really deal with a lot of these kinds of situations in a more discrete manner. yes a lot of the time the people he is interacting with are not particularly nice people but he should know better by now when dealing with them.
@@Tidalx And she was using him as an advert for her dogs, until he started questioning the viability of breeding her dog, so now her free ad is back firing and she's freaking out about it.
@@Tidalx if he stayed quiet, more people would probably look at the breeder well, and might even buy a dog from them. and then they might have the same problems as morgan did, as morgan sated in this video why he didn’t stay quiet about it
Additional thought: The breeder is also requesting on her blogs for viewers to unsub you and contact your sponsor(s). This is NOT OK. I hope she sees this comment and "takes the high road" and just moves on. She seems to be quite "salty" Does she strive for 100% satisfaction in customer satisfaction? Yes, I'm sure she does. Any business would. Gold Shaw farm does as well. Clearly not the case here and she needs to move on and put her efforts towards the puppies she is rearing now and those in the future. Dog breeders and potential customers need to be very thorough prior to engaging in a transaction of selling and buying a puppy. Abby seems to be in a loving home, being continually trained to execute the job she is bread to fulfill and she receives the care and attention she deserves as she continues to mature. We all love Abby!
To get away from the drama for a minute Can I just say how much I love the names you give your animals! It’s unique, it shows you love them, and it shows they all matter to you. 💕💕💕💕💕
'Socialized around (poultry)' socialized how? Was she just sitting behind a fence watching geese, chickens and ducks exited to chase them? Or Was she already chasing these animals? That word could mean different things. Sure a child could be 'socialized' but they could also be biting and hitting other kids. Love your videos Morgan and watching you learn and grow as the years have gone by.
Abby's energy is higher than Toby's. She's an in your face dog. I'm not saying she is not cute and sweet. She's a friendly dog. But she is a wild child running and playing. Hope you can succeed in the end. I had many dogs in my. Ife but my last mini schnauzer was so hard to train. She was very dominant and very stubborn. Loving and sweet, to be sure, but I train all my dogs not to bark (I live in an apartment and have done all my life,) to walk at heel off lead and to sit, stay, down and come very quickly. It took me 5 years to get her to walk at heel off leed no matter how she was tempted by other dogs or entrancing smells. I won but two times daily training sessions for 5 years were exhausting. But I got 6 more years with her of wonderful and absolutely dependable adorableness in the end. Good luck.
Doesn't really matter either way. Whatever she was doing then becomes pretty inconsequential when she's killed a chicken on Morgans farm. At that point it's his responsibility to do something about it before the bodies pile up. His solution was a large pen until she could be trusted. Really not sure what more you want unless you just don't value the lives of the birds at all, in which case you've lost any moral high horse.
@@Nagassh why are you being somewhat aggressive to this commenter? They are talking about when the breeder said they socialized the dog to poultry. That could mean the dog watched from a fence wanting to chase and let that anxious energy build up or the breeder may have thought it was cute when the pup chased the birds and didn’t correct the Behavior. Has nothing to do with Morgan at all
Breeders sometimes have clauses in their contracts (usually not really enforceable) about right of first refusal, where they expect the buyer to offer for buy-back or return the puppy to the seller first if they intend to re-home. That might explain why they still perceive her as "their dog" de facto even though Morgan has no intention of returning her.
I don't know what this "breeder" contract says, but a lot of breeder contracts say that... If you move & don't tell them, they can take the dog... If you don't send them updates every month for the 1st year (or for life), they can take the dog... If you give the dog to someone & don't get their permission, they can take the dog... If you can no longer care for the dog (even 10 years later) and you give the dog to a shelter & they find out, they can sue you... If you breed the dog without their permission, they can take the dog
Plus, she can't take the blame because Morgan has failed to train her properly, a dog is only as good as it's owners training! A puppy is a blank canvas, and she is locked up in a cage most of the time.
@@DogSerious When you have a dog with a strong ProDrive training only work so far. I’ve had dogs for strong pro drives and you can never entirely trust them around some species. I have a dog with Staffordshire bull terrier in her and she had a strong PreY and I’ll never let her off the lead around sheep. A dog like Abby is meant to be a generalist livestock guardian dog in terms of use around different types, they’ve been used all over the world with Alrighty of livestock. She’s just not suited to being around poultry. Plus the genetic issue as well means that having her spayed was the best thing for her. Also it will help her calm down a bit. Which will hopefully speed up her maturation in her temperament. She’s clearly going to be a great cattle dog.
I agree with you. Abby's calling might be as a drover with the cattle. Sometimes with a dog you have to work within the dogs ability. How Toby doesn't kill the geese during mating season is a miracle. Abby may just not have that natural calm temperament for that same work.
My first apartment was 515sq ft., and I had to work TWO jobs to keep it. Abby's got almost a bedroom more than I had, free housekeeping, free healthcare, free grooming, and daily food delivery, but she's barely good at her ONE job. She is certainly very mistreated, it's borderline criminal!
@@jonathanfalix2875 It's called sarcasm bromiester. Abby's not good at her job of being a livestock guardian dog (yet), but has all the perks of a full-time seasoned employee. The breeder's accusation of him mistreating Abby is ridiculous. The Breeder needs to put her Big Girl Panties on, and learn to take some criticism.
I love how you mention that the breeder has been traumatized by all this. Right or wrong, being attacked by the internet en mass can really mess with you. People need to recognize that your battles are yours to fight (unless you ask), and trying to be helpful (or vengeful) can easily make things worse. It would be much easier for you to deal with someone who isn't trying to defend themselves against a horde. You come off very reasonable, and teach a good lesson that hopefully makes the world better for it, thanks Morgan.
I think people with a large platform should have more care in their criticisms, especially when knowing how their fan base has reacted before. It doesn’t help matters that he uses negatively fashioned icons around the topic to draw in views, click bait. Those who make snap judgements and see the pictures and love his channel could turn around in “justice warrior” mode to defend him, and those he takes issue with are left feeling vilified with those headers as being the problem. Not that they aren’t, it’s just escalating matters. He is sensationalizing his problems with others because it is profitable for his channel. It’s troubling. I think he could be airing out matters in a better way that doesn’t fuel the fires.
What surprised (and impressed) me was that he said this was frustrating to him, but traumatizing to her. Morgan didn't downplay the impact this is having on the breeder; instead, he put her struggle above his own. He claims he has empathy for her, and that supports it.
@@iRunavala I hope he adjusts how he presents his content knowing now where it can impact other people’s lives, if it truly matters to him. He got sensationalist about it with his “headlines”, so to start from that is already getting people worked up. I mean… words like FAILURE and BAD DOG stamped right next to the dog’s head is rather dramatic. He’s setting the tone here. As the one orchestrating the content his messages need to be clear from the start. He may be turning his frustrations into fruit via ad revenue but he is willfully using the most dramatic means to do so and the fallout is stronger feelings all around.
@@Auchtahelweit This is how I feel about it, too. The videos about Abby have been presented in a deliberately clickbaity manner, and as you said, it sets the tone for the discourse around the dog. While it sounds like this breeder would have been set off into drama-land no matter what, that doesn't mean that the titles and thumbnails had NO impact.
@@Auchtahelweit - I agree. He's still young and maturing, probably both of them are. In my opinion they should have kept their differences between themselves (yes, older people act like that too, but they shouldn't, and should be examples to the younger generations). I slowed the video down to see some of what the lady wrote in her blog, and saw things that he did not address. There are always two sides to a story. Yes, I noticed the silly labels stamped next to the dog's head, yet he complained about the woman using quotations around things she'd said (insulting her intelligence because she doesn't know how to use proper grammar). This whole this is embarrassing. @Runavala - He may have SOME empathy for her, but I didn't see much.
Thanks for explaining everything. I personally am fairly new to your channel, but I could tell in EVERY video you put out, that you love those dogs and have NO intention of giving Abby up.
Just like with people, dogs are all individuals and you can never know exactly what you're getting. Seems you're taking the good with the bad and keeping it real, which is awesome.
What you said must have really hit home to this breeder. She’s in full desperation mode because she knows she can’t dispute the facts. She was hoping to profit from the publicity you’d give her, but instead she’s been exposed.
I so appreciate your ability to sort and suss the issues with compassion, humor, and intelligence. We,as the audience, are exposed to so many broken people and useless content! I am 72 and live vicariously watching you fulfill a dream a never able to pursue. Thank you and bless you for your honesty, transparency, kind heart, and sensitive nature. I love watching your videos with a glass of wine in the still of the evening. I go to bed happy.
It's always the irresponsible ones that are all mouth, frankly. There was a similar breeder in the Akita world a few years ago that over-bred his dogs and constantly sent out puppies with genetic issues. Got horrendously mad at me when I cancelled my appointment to see his facility and dogs. Keep in mind I made no mention of coming up to buy a dog. I wanted to meet them, yes, but I was honest and upfront that I was also looking at several breeders simultaneously. It was pretty clear from his language that he had already spent the money he assumed I was going to be paying for a puppy I never agreed to buy. And when I cancelled he lost his shit on me and blocked me. Thankfully most people are aware the man is a piece of work now and hopefully the same notoriety will hit Abby's breeder.
Your empathy toward the breeder is much more than what I feel like you got in return, but you're right, you shouldn't have probably gotten rolled up in the drama. You didn't know what effect your actions would have quite yet, but it's awesome to see how well you take responsibility. You provided a strong argument and evidence. Abby is a good puppy, very sweet. And none of the allegations against you make sense! Like, a prisoner? It's not like you have her in a crate or something, she's able to be around the farm to desensitize and cut down on the prey drive, she has plenty of time out to run around etc, and she's well fed and provided for. She would act ENTIRELY different if you were in any way an abusive owner or she felt like a prisoner. Some dogs who are bought (from breeders of working dogs) who do not end up being working dogs, are only taken for one or two walks a day! She has so much freedom and she is so happy, it's clear to see. You're doing a great job so far imo. Keep on doing what you're doing! The click bait tho..... :P
Marlena, I was going to mention the clickbait-iness of some of the video titles, too. From a marketing standpoint (fellow marketer here), the titles of the videos are designed to be eye catching and to draw people in, asking themselves, “oh no, is he getting rid of Abby?” And I totally get it. But I imagine that may not be obvious to other people. No two dogs, or people, or even plants are alike. I have no experience with the Maremma breed at all, but I have wondered if maybe Toby is the exception, and not the rule. Or really he’s the perfect first child that convinces parents to have a second child, and the second child doesn’t sleep, gets into everything, etc. (I got the kid that doesn’t sleep and gets into everything as my first (and only) child. 😂
100% seems like the breeder is really butthurt about video titles that are clearly exaggerated to grab attention. But I haven't watched every single one. 🤷♀️
Some people cant take Criticism. Im always honest, if someone shows me something i tell them the truth. A lot of the time it hurts there feelings. But they still ask me, and they keep asking me. People might not like the honesty at first, but they will sit on what you say and sooner or later accept you are right.
Yes, my feeling was, that Morgan has put his training of Abby out for all to see, and if she had a problem with any of it, why didn't she contact him and make some suggestions?
You definitely had to be honest because quite frankly upon seeing your initial videos praising this breeder, I started making plans [and even contacted her] to get a puppy for my poultry farming friend here in Ohio.
(Dog Show Exhibitor and Enthusiast here) You did the 100% Correct thing, spaying her. Her temperament for 1 isn't 100% great for 1 (chasing birds) and number 2 is yes you do not want her to pass the hernia down to puppies, as well as hernias could create complications in birth as well. I applaud you for doing the right and reputable thing! I'm not breeding my Pembroke for a reason as well as there's 2 things that I don't want to pass down to puppy's, he's staying intact but I don't have any females who are intact in my home. Thanks for Being a Reputable person and that breeder is definitely BYB and trying to cover up her mistakes of breeding dogs who have hernias and who do not have the correct temperament to be a Flock Guardian dog.
Please be aware the incidents of testicular & prostrate cancer is extremely high for dogs that are not neutered. I tried to tell my sister's best friend to get her beautiful boxer neutered and she refused to do it. At 7 years old he got a very aggressive form of it and was dead in 7 months regardless of that the owner did to save him. Hard lesson there that didn't have to happen!!
@@PapillonOne There's more risks associated with Nueter than not, I will only de sex my dogs if its medically necessary otherwise they keep their needed hormones.
You are allowed to be disappointed. Disappointed that you trusted a second-rate breeder, disappointed that you are only human and cannot control outcomes, and yes, disappointed that ultimately you chose Abby who cannot fulfill the role as you originally expected. It doesn't make you a bad person, but rather gives you lots of opportunities to grow. And that is why you have a channel and a platform and an audience. You don't need to feel guilty or a need to defend how it all makes you feel. You're doing a good job. And being responsible. That's all you can do.
My experience with my LGD's is that females take longer. They keep that puppy energy for longer. My males are amazing. I have a 13 week old male puppy right now and he is just easy. My 4 year old male has always been easy. I would say at 2 years you will see a change. Or, birds just aren't her thing. I have dogs that will never stop playing with my birds...unfortunately, it doesn't end well for the bird. Abby is a great dog, and you're doing the best you can to help her.
I used to watch your videos all the time. Back then, your barn kitty just had surgery from being hit by the car. Your farm has grown SO much since then! Watching now, I’ve realized I’ve missed watching your RUclips videos. I just watched one of your videos about your “haters.” I just gotta say: Don’t ever let anyone dull your shine! You’re an amazing RUclipsr and Homesteader. Everyone has got at least 1. 🤷🏾♀️😊 I’m lovin Miss Abby.. she’s a beauty! ❤
I'm going to be honest I'm so glad that you are handling this so well...but are also willing to see you can accept the clickbaity titles and thumbnails are starting to cause problems. The wording and thumbnail of the last video really rubbed me wrong and I skipped it due to its nature of looking like Toby died
Absolutely was thinking this very thing as I came across your comment. By making clickbait titles he is putting specific questions into people’s minds and is expecting people to follow through and listen to everything to hear the opposite. I’ve been increasingly put off with how he uses titles and images meant to provoke negative emotions and would rather check out the quick TikTok’s than feel baited by the drama.
Are you talking about the 'Saying Goodbye Without Regrets' video? If so, what on earth made you think he was alluding to Toby dying? Toby isn't even in the thumbnail. I know Morgan can be a little fake and cheesy, especially around sponsorships, and clickbaity titles is part of the RUclips game(annoying, I agree), but this comment went a little too far. I mean, seriously. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about this channel knows that if Toby-dog died, Morgan would be a sobbing mess and the title/thumbnail would convey this. Morgan cries at the IDEA of something happening to his pets, so expect a broken-hearted flood if any of them actually die.
@@Maeda_Miakoda_Gaming For me, the issue was that it's so clearly NOT a video about Toby dying but the thumbnail (which was different before) and the title is intended to invoke a "oh no!" reaction to lead someone to click on the video. Literally clickbait to the T. I know that clickbaity titles are part of the RUclips "game", that doesn't stop me from being annoyed when people do this, and especially the more egregious cases like the one mentioned above. I will actively try to NOT click on videos even when they are from my favourite content creators when they are super clickbaity because principles. And clearly i'm not alone in feeling this, especially when it causes issues with sensitive people (and seemingly unhinged drama queens) like the breeder. It's just easily avoided if you just change the title and thumbnails to be less "dramatic".
Morgan, my partner and I have been watching your channel for over a year now and I love your everyday farm videos but when the tea is spilt it's absolutely scolding. You are nothing but kind to all your animals and I can tell you love Abby a lot. Ultimately what it boils down to is that this lady runs a business, delivered a poor product and now rather than rectifying the situation or at the very least staying quiet about it, she would rather wage a keyboard war from the other side of the country. You were rightfully critical, but you were respectful about it and never gave any real identifiers about this woman but still she felt the need to out herself and how demonstrate how poorly she conducts herself in regards to her business. I think you did right by Abby girl by getting her spayed. It's ultimately the most responsible decision for you and your farm. Great work as always :)
I’m just gonna say this up front, in this day and age you have to be aware that owning a business alone can cause you problems. For the lady who sold you Abby it doesn’t mean she’s a bad person or her dogs are bad quality if anything, your experience is entirely valid! We need to keep our animal breeders in check to make sure we’re not just pumping out poor pups that have a mid-low quality of life because their parents were owned by some unethical greedy people. And the fact that she started off pretending to want the best but ultimately screwing you by lying.
Eh, I feel like her response to his valid criticisms makes her a bad person, or at least a very heavily flawed one. She needs to take some serious genuflection time.
I will say that genetics aren't stable: Just because the dogs you have are both double-dominant, doesn't mean you'll get a double-dominant trait in a dog simply because genetic mutations exist. As a dog breeder it's her responsibility to DNA test the dogs, to give certainty, or at least be willing to pay for a test/any health concerns that arise from a genetic issue that was not relayed to the new owner of the dog. I will say that this does not make her a bad person or her dogs bad dogs, but that she has both unethical breeding practices, and unethical business practices.
People dont pay $3,000 for a dog to expect to have to pay for surgeries shortly after getting the animal. She knew that not only did Abby have a hernia issue. Other litter mates do as well. Pups have a warranty of health
He was given the choice between Abby and 4 other females without hernias. He was made aware of it prior to purchasing her and still chose her. That isn't on the breeder.
Animals are like humans; they are not perfect. And yes, you can end up paying after getting the animal. They key is communication with the breeder. When we researched getting a second dachshund, we made sure not to go to an Amish puppy mill, and found a reputable breeder in PA. He communicated to us that our selection had an umbilical hernia, and he allowed a refund or another selection, if we wanted. Our vet confirmed that hernias are common, and that it could be corrected. When we took him home, he ended up having kennel cough. We communicated this to the vet (it is also common), and he paid us $150 for the vet treatment and medication. Our puppy turned out fine and is a healthy and happy 2-1/2 yr old purebred dachshund, and bonded to our older dachshund, who didn't get kennel cough as she had her shots. I've also rescued animals and had to treat them. I took home a cat years ago, and it ended up having worms. Same thing ... communication, treatment, good health result. Point being ... umbilical hernias are very common, and correctable (with very few cases that are severe).
I don't have this breed, but let's be clear - high spirited dogs do take longer to train. Seems you are doing a good job. And no, working breeds w genetic defects should be regulated to "pet price" and not bred.
@@SarahsPets2004 okay? Not everyone is but he's already trained one great dog, has mentors and coaches, and is doing a lot more than people who don't even train their dogs. Here's the thing that might surprise you but anyone can learn how to train a dog.
@@bbycherub2420 Abby was purchased from one of the top Maremma breeders in the US, who goes above & beyond in her health testing of any dogs she breeds, adhering to a specific code of ethics to be rated as such. She breeds extremely high quality Maremma LGDs from champion bloodlines. This bashing of her is truly appalling.
Abby's breeder SHOULDN'T BE ROASTING ANYONE. She sold you an expensive purebred dog that had a hernia and needed surgery. She's the problem, she lied about Abby being a good candidate for poultry protection. She's the one who has issues with Morgan and his thumbnails, but it's NONE of her business
But the breeder told him about the hernia and admitted it may be genetic. Why would he go through with buying Abby when he was aware of the risks? I don’t want to be beat up here but it’s an honest question.
@@rebeccabrown5014 He was not as educated on breeder practices or genetic medical issues with dogs. His experience with obtaining Toby turned out fantastic so he reasonably assumed this breeder would be similar. The breeder as far as he could tell, was reputable, was up front about any issues but repeatedly said the hernia wasn't a big deal so he trusted her word that it was fine. It wasn't until later that he got veterinarian and other breeder advice on whether it's a big deal or not that he realized it was such a major issue after all.
Morgan, thank you for talking about working with Abbie. I have trained 4 (different breeds) dogs of my own, each dog I had to tweek as each dog has its own learning curve. You are doing, in my opinion, an excellent job with Abby, and she shows it! Love your farm!
I'm not saying all breeders are like the one, but in my opinion as well it's unethical. Some people wouldn't even know about it being genetic. I'm glad you are informing everyone! I used to breed rabbits and it is a hard decision to make.
Some breeders can be crazy. My dad got a pure bred german shepard from a show dog line and had tons of issues. The dog is sweet but I'd bet my bottom dollar she's inbred since she has temperament problems (acts like she has ADHD, snaps at other dogs when they're playing, stuff like that) and tons of health issues. They also put in their contract that he had ro prepay for the dog before it was born and that he was in line for a dog, if the mother didnt make enough puppies though he could flat not get a puppy and if the puppy died for any reason after birth he wouldnt get a puppy or his money back. They also charge extra for "breeding rights" and mentioned something about sueing him if he bred her without paying for the breeding rights, which is kind of insane.
@@arthas640 it’s ethical for breeders to charge breeding rights/make you sign an agreement to neuter/not breed the animal. It’s to prevent their dogs and all offspring stemming from them from ending up in shelters and adding onto overpopulation problems. Ethical breeders treasure their lines and do everything they can to prevent the selling of their offspring from causing anymore harm. I’d be concerned if a breeder didn’t care if the puppy they were selling is bred.
@@arthas640 and deposits before the dog is born is completely normal and goes into any health problems/issues the mother might go through during birth.
@@arthas640 Deposits before a dog is born is completely normal, not relevant but: That's the same with getting a bird from a reliable breeder, I had to pay $400 in AUD (Australian dollars) to get my conure and it's most likely the same with cats, chickens and other animals.
@@Sirocri the deposit is understandable, but being non refundable seems crazy to me. It was kind of vague whether or not if the mother had too few pups (if they sold more then she gave birth to) if hed get a puppy from another litter, if hed get a refund, or if they'd keep the money. If the puppy died in their care for any reason it still counted and my dad wouldn't get a puppy or his money. I forgot to mention but she had umbilical hernia too at birth too and ended up with other problems. I dont remember the name of the condition but she ended up needing a hysterectomy due to some birth defects that caused a ton of infections, the vet said both were likely genetic. She ended up being a runt too, about 70-75lb when the breeder said her whole line were larger german shepards, mostly over 100lb. Despite supposedly being from a show dog line some people told my dad his dog has a number of things that makes her "not breed standard" which along with the health problems and temperament issues makes me think it was a puppy mill since she seemed inbred on top of everything else.
I don't necessarily agree with Morgan on everything on this one, but as an LGD owner to a prospective one, my advise would be to visit the breeder, and visit both the sire and dam if possible to evaluate if their temperament is what you're looking for and ask lots of questions. Ask why the breeder is breeding this pair of dogs together and what their goals with their genetic line/breeding are. Different breeds and lines within those breeds may have different guarding styles (stays close with stock at all times vs. frequent perimeter checks), friendliness to unknown humans, discernment in their barking, propensity for roaming etc. Health testing (hips, genetics etc.) isn't strictly mandatory with an experienced breeder who is knowledgeable of their lines, but is usually a sign of a breeder that cares and wants to improve the breed. Ideally your breeder should be knowledgeable and be able to pick out the puppy that will best fit your situation, but come armed with what traits you want to look for as well and be prepared to walk away/wait for another litter if there isn't a puppy that will be a perfect fit. Look for a puppy that doesn't make direct eye contact with stock. If you're looking for more of a 'farm dog'/porch LGD than a true LGD (accompanies you on chores, stays near you/the house, will investigate potential threats as they arise, greets human visitors; better for smaller acreage) pick one that is friendly and comes up to you without prompting. A true LGD (stays with stock at all times and proactively defends;better for larger acreage) you'd want one that isn't the first puppy to get in your face, but happily accepts loving if you come up to it. And lastly, don't let yourself be duped by the people telling you you have to limit your contact with your dog and lock them up with stock at all times, otherwise your dog may not 'bond' with livestock. LGDs worked side by side with their old world shepherds, and your relationship with your dog needs to be solid before you can expect it to want to protect what is yours. They're not machines, they're a part of your family, and important, trusted employees on your farm. Treat them with love and respect and they will return it 100 fold!
I just want to point out that you got Toby a lot younger than Abby. I really think that made a difference in his association with birds. When you eventually get another puppy I would get them as young as possible. I personally believe that the early exposure is really important and it's at least partially why Toby is so good with them. Obviously there's a million factors that make a difference, I just think that's one of them.
That's what I was thinking too. When he got her I was surprised she was much older than he was when he came to the farm. There are always two sides to a story, too.
He had Abby on the good faith that the breeder that he bought her from had trained and acclimatised the puppy with fowls and birds prior to getting her. The fault is on the breeder for lying to Morgan on this.
We love your videos. As a native Californian, I can say (as an expert on them), she's from California and has the attitude of those type of people. You addressed her allegations very well. Catherine
Jimi Hendrix's eyelashes! 😍 The breeder probably just wanted to buy Abby back so she could breed her, which is why she thought it was SO terrible that you spayed her. So glad you didn't send her back. This woman is addicted to drama. Those e-mails and even her own blog posts make her sound unhinged. People like this love attention, even negative attention, which explains her belief that all the other breeders are conspiring against her. So be prepared for a MAJOR backlash to this video.
Yea one of the biggest parts that is confusing about all of this is that she is claiming that Gold Shaw Farm had no rights to breed Abby, yet she is also shaming him for spaying her and talking about she is missing out on finding her doggy "prince" and other super weird stuff in her blog posts. It's either one of the other, lady.
@@Libbathegreat yea she sounds a little unstable or just doesn't know how to internet, starting to kind of feel bad for her. The quote was "The beautiful dog that Abby's breeder had originally planned to keep for herself will never have puppies. Which is too bad, because if Abby's owner had come to her breeder they probably could have worked something out. Maybe he could have even found a new prince for Abby to marry and have puppies." ...yikes.
@@strongdawg Oh boy. Sounds like for her, Abby has ceased to have value because no one can make money out of her anymore by forcing her to churn out pups. So disturbing. Lady Abbington has a way better life on GSF than any that breeder would offer her.
Morgan, after this video, I can definitely say that your clickbait titles and thumbnails aren't giving you the best press on this matter. I think changing these and preserving the videos as is would show good faith, and would fit your brand a lot more... From a distance, just looking at your channel from a glance? It's not reflective of your true content. You seem *mean* at surface level, even though your videos and the content within them are super wholesome. I've been watching for years, and I will admit I'm not a fan of your clickbait stuff.
That's the game creators have to play. Morgan wouldn't have near the following he does have if he didn't cater to the algorithm. I see his thumbnails as more of a satirical homage to the normal clickbaity thumbnails. If you've watched more than thirty minutes of the Gold shaw channel you should already know that the thumbnails aren't exactly accurate representations of the content in the videos. As a matter of fact, the thumbnails or more often than not the opposite representation of the actual content in the videos. He's essentially taking a mirror and holding it up to youtube and showing us all what it's like to have to play their algorithmically generated game. Essentially, we have no real right to judge unless we also have extensive experience playing the youtube game. I'd be curious to find out the opinion on this topic from other youtubers and hear their take. My guess is they would understand and be more lenient about morgans use of 'clickbaity thumbnails' because essentially every big channel does it.
morgan, i’m glad abby has a home with you. i know many people would take one look at abbys less-than-ideal behavior and immediately jump at the offer to return her or resell her. your love and patience with abby are more than any dog could ask for. she has a wonderful life!! i love to see that you are willing to work with her even though she’s not quite what you were expecting. this breeder is only looking for trouble. don’t let it get you down. (ps: although her blog post is mostly silly, her talks of “repossessioin [sic] of the dog”, bragging about taking legal action against others for allegedly bullying her in her facebook posts, and asking her blog readers to “implore him to treat Abby better and to either seek professional help in training her or send her home” (from the blog post titled “what abbys owner does that i will never do”) do make me a little wary. i would be cautious and make sure there’s nothing in the contract that she might be able to twist and use against you if she ever sought that route.)
I second this and also push for him to lawyer up jic she tries something. Idk if her case would hold any weight in court but better to be safe than sorry.
You are too nice Morgan. The breeder is not making a good name for herself. I would never select a breeder that attacks their past clients like that on their site. You are being way too kind here. You are an amazing soul.
Hello from Scotland, Morgan. I think Abby's training & development especially how she acts around the birds is going to be a long game for you. It's clear that she has bundles of energy and it might be the case that it will just take longer for her temperament to change & to become more similar to Toby Dog. Maybe in the future, once you expand to have more cows & some pigs like you mentioned recently, then Abby might be better suited to working with those animals rather than the birds.
That isn't the idea. Guardian dogs free range and ward off any preditors. Birds are all locked in at night. On a homestead it is open so it would be impossible to segregate the dog(s) to certain area's.
We had a Great Pyrenees, different breed, though similar and no livestock, but our experience with her was it took her a good TWO full years to settle down to correct her misbehaviors. It could be a gender thing, or a coincidence. but after about two she was a much better dog.
Morgan, I've been on both sides of the fence. Bought and been stung. And sold with being stung. I sold since1982 under contract I never hesitated to take back a pup. And I had several I tried to return (no contract but verbal) and though they were part of of family I had them spayed. I registered pups before they left. My 1st breed was dobermans and I sold WITH ears trimmed/ tails docked on contract. And basically the purchase price covered the ear trims. My Whippets sold on same contract. No longer breeding. At on time I had 5 generations of Dobes on the property, all from well known, great old lineage. Same with the whippets. As I have gotten older (67 almost) my ranks have thinned...one lone whippet of 13 yrs and two retired Military Working dogs (One GSD and one Mal). My advice is if at an impass with the breeder..cut you losses and move on. Love Abby and hope she finds her job. Best to you.
@@sandraringener4968 Totally agree. I do not have LGDs, but I have a large working breed that takes years to mature. That adolescent phase is long and there can be a lot of ups and downs. Even 20+ yrs into my breed, I have a current 2 yr old dog that has challenged me training wise and I have had to go back to the drawing board, ask for help, refocus on some things, and work on getting him back on track (and we are). Not in this case, but there are a lot of people getting breeds they do not understand and then expecting them to magically be perfect. We have neighbors with LGDs as pets, yet yell at them for barking at me while I'm walking my dogs on the road. They are supposed to warn off strangers. They aren't doing anything wrong. They aren't charging the fence, they aren't acting aggressively, it's not excessive. They are just standing in their yard barking at me saying, "hey, you aren't allowed here".
@@pamelaremme38 Considering Morgan has said that he plans to open up the perma-culture orchard as he gets more cows & possibly pigs as well then I can't see why he couldn't segregate the dogs especially considering the area where he houses the birds is IMO small enough for Toby to manage on his own. Basically, as Morgan's farm grows, he'll either need more dogs or the dogs will have to cover a wider area.
Abby reminds me a lot of my Bernese mountain dog when he was her age. He was hyper, un-trustable on his own, and simply just a handful for me and my family. My father even told me he was thinking about getting rid of him. But as he aged and matured he calmed down and is now the most well behaved dog ever! He was bred to protect cattle similar to Abby and Toby and looks like them except for his colour. He is a great watch dog and always keeps trespassing fishermen and dogs off our fields. What I’m trying to say is with time, Abby will turn out to be a great dog that will be gentle as well just like my dog. Don’t give up man
I think way more important is the consistent and clear training, environment, and how you interact with the dog Upstate Canine Academy on RUclips is one way to do it right, a default way I’ve met only one person who had a truly good relationship with their dog; a hunter and his golden retriever. Only used a leash when required
Honestly judging based on how Abby loves being in the pasture and absolutely adores your cattle, she honestly would be a great cattle dog! Wouldn't be so bad if you had a LGD for both types of livestock on your farm 😊 who knows, she might stop the calf from running away haha.
Umbilical hernias are not a genetic issue, nor are they a health concern to any breeder with any real experience (15 years minimum breeding dogs). Human beings have them too, they're called outie belly buttons. It's basically a late closure of the umbilical opening. It's extremely common in all mammals with umbilical cords (non marsupials). Saying that a dog shouldn't be bred because it has an umbilical hernia is like telling people that they shouldn't have children because they have an outie belly button. The veterinary sciences like to demonize common issues so that they can exploit people financially by trying to make it seem like it's something worse than it is. Like for example they call the common cold in dogs kennel cough, even though the true definition of kennel cough is brucellosis, which is extremely dangerous. They do that so that they can get you to spend a bunch of money on antibiotics and potential x-rays to check for pneumonia when the reality is your dog will be over it in a week maybe two with no treatment for 90% of cases without complications. There are different kinds of hernias that are genetic and are dangerous, but they are not associated with umbilical hernias. People without a lot of experience with breeding dogs often try to make a big deal out of it but it's a red Herring. Another huge issue in the veterinary sciences and the breeding Community is speculation is often considered truth and vets have no problem making completely false assumptions about genetics and breeding all the time. I tell people all the time do not believe what you're told! Look up studies, or ask for sources for information that they're giving you. The reality is that most of what is told is misinformation that is repeated over and over again and taken as fact. Especially by veterinarians, they're the worst people to ask about anything related to genetics in regards to dog breeding. They are not geneticists and they are not breeders. They do not have the experience or the knowledge to comment on genetics or breeding. Yet that will not stop them from doing so on a regular basis. Be very careful of young vets because they're indoctrinated with a bunch of propaganda in colleges that is anti-breeder. Talking to a lot of people is a great start, but if you didn't follow up and ask for sources for that information then it doesn't mean anything. If you become a breeder you will very quickly find that out what little information is actually known about dog breeding in regards to genetics and health conditions. It's an area where not a lot of money has been put into studying these things. It's a job filled with old wives tales and speculation. Worst of all from the veterinary sciences that demonize breeders and like to use any opportunity they can to say a dog shouldn't be bred. The only valid reason that dog shouldn't be bred is because she lacks the temperament to do the job that her breed is bred to do.
Look as a viewer & dog owner since 1974 I appreciate & depend on your frank, honest videos of your experiences with all your animals. Please don't turn this into a powder puff story of your life. I've breed 3 liters (total of 5 puppies) in 40 years & I kept them all. I know the hours spent studying genotype & phenotype. I've had much success & all but my littlest one, Cookie, became AKC Champions. But every dog that had inheritable problems was NEVER bred. I bought a puppy bitch with a liver shunt (unknown to me & the breeder) she lived out her life with me & was never bred. The breeder refunded the purchase price. Breeders should know their pedigrees & problems in their lines but no one is perfect, so just be honest & honorable.
Regardless of the drama it’s great to see you stand by Abby. Not all pups are the same. And understanding this a step forward. We have 3 LGD and each one so different from the other. Nothing pisses me off more how people get rid of-their LGDS because they aren’t perfect. When in fact most of the blame can be put on the owner and not the pup. You got Lucky with Toby he is a natural maybe a once in life time dog. Abby just needs love care and guidance. She will find her place and be a great dog.
Wanted to let you know that I support you 100%! Drama is something that I always get uncomfortable with whether it’s second hand or not, so I wanted to let you know I’ll still be watching your videos. One of my favorite channels!
Let me be perfectly clear on this: a LGD should never herd the animals and it should never "play" with the animals. LGDs should be like Toby, seen but perfectly at ease with the animals and the animals perfectly at ease with the dog. Abbey's protective instinct is not fully developed and as a LGD she is a failure. I have no doubt that Abbey is a great dog but she will not do the job of a LGD. By the way, I loved my Komondors.
😗🤌 CHEF'S KISS. People don't agree with this and I don't get why, yes Toby set the bar high for Morgan but he is a NATURALLY INSTINCTIVE LGD. That is exactly what Morgan and MANY people are looking for. Training a dog to be an LGD is made a lot simpler when a dog's natural instincts ALIGN to it. It might take 2+ years for some dogs to be decent LGDs, but they are not NATURAL LGDs. A natural LGD is everything you just said and that's what people are talking about when they talk about their LGD instincts or training related to genetics/working dog breeding. Abby can BE a good LGD but it's going to take a lot of time, and that's NOT what you want when deciding to breed LGDs.
@@Night-ud4ew I don't understand your reply. Toby did not set the standard high: he is merely following the standard that all LGDs should follow. Any dog that does not follow this standard, should not be "trained" as an LGD. They will never achieve the minimum standards of an LGD. I'm sure that Abbey will make a great house dog but she should not be allowed near livestock.
Love your videos! You as the consumer have the right to make honest reviews of Abby (as the product)and your experience with the breeder/business. Abby is a working dog not a family pet which means you have valid expectations of her and the breeder. If the breeder doesn’t like it, then she shouldn’t be in business. I do love that you acknowledged the style of thumbnails that can lead others to think Abby is a disappointment. But again, you have the right to talk about your experience.
Easy suggestion: Don't say "Abby no", is basicaly the same that saying "yes no". Never use the name of the dog to stop it from a bad behavior; simply say "No/Stop/Whatever", they need a different command from their name to understand it. BTW she seems such a good dog, hope she is going well
I absolutely agree about not using the name. The name is for recall, not correction, and the recall should always be a positive event. But I'd add one thing here - instead of No/Stop/Whatever, it's better to give them a command to actually DO something. A recall, or down-out-of-motion gives them an action to perform, and keeps them engaged. No/Stop is usually met with "so, can I chase the cat now? How about now?' lol.
@@BuzzyStreet that's what we do. It makes it much easier for the dog to change track. My greyhounds have off, leave it, drop it if they have an object they shouldn't or are on something they shouldn't be on (counter surfing). They have come along, poli poli (slowly in swahili), pretty walking, come, come-touch, wimble-womble (made up for come-touch-down) and "not your business" for anything that is down the way that might be exciting or enticing and lead to a pull, chase, or other reactivity. We use the name with Come, come touch, and wimble womble.
@@BuzzyStreet That's what I did with my German Shepherd/doberman: She had a bad habit of greeting familiar people by jumping against them. (dangerous with a smaller elderly lady, and children): Instead of "no" I taught her to go get a toy for the visitor. It worked so well, every time she met a person she knew, her first instinct was to frantically look for a toy to show them... And sometimes she improvised with a stick or a leaf, or someone's shoe or sock😆. Relatives found the new greeting funny, and preferable to bruising👍
@@BuzzyStreet That's why my pit support dog was taught "hold"=stop, "walk on"=ignore that and don't stop, "forward"=we are still walking, "home"=we are done walking and going back to car/house, "cross! cross! cross!"= crossing roads quickly, "look"=look at me/break line of sight with what distracting, "leave it", "drop it", "to me", and "walk easy"=he can walk faster than me if a joint slips during a walk. H has his specific commands for my health/safety of "get the boys"=get my roommates, "help"=lay close to keep me from falling off the bed/couch while twitching, "do your job"=lay close to keep me warm, "i know"=I hear you barking and know there's someone outside but it's safe. In addition to the standard "come", "sit" "stay/okay (release with specific inflection)" "shake" "lay down" "wait" recall training to the point he doesn't even try to leave if leash drops, and the "anght anght" aka no-no sound. And he also has "excuse me"= get out of the way which we never taught him, he figured it out from us telling each other excuse me. His command he learned was "move". We make jokes about him having good manners.
One thing I would recommend with training Abbey is to have her on a long leash around the birds. Buy a 30ft long line, cut the handle off so it doesnt get stuck on anything, that way if she starts to chase a bird you can stand on the line and stop her. Otherwise she is rewarding herself with the chase and reinforcing both that behaviour and ignoring you giving her directions
I'd second this suggestion. And I've seen "drag lines" at the local agricultural supply store (a chain store) intended for use when training hunting dogs. They have a couple of different lengths available - and the 20 foot length helped a lot when working with our house dog as a puppy (she could race around, but I could stop her when needed)
I did this with my puppy when I was training him to fetch at the park. Sometimes he'd get distracted and start running off I'd say 'no' and step on his leash. Now when I say 'no' as he starts chasing something, he (usually) stops. You don't even have to buy a long line, just a rope with a carabiner on one end.
My thoughts exactly. Abby is a puppy with a high prey drive and needs to be under control instead of running loose with birds everywhere. Expecting her to mature at the same rate as Toby is unrealistic. But then didn’t Morgan say early on that Toby was the first dog he’s had? Some dogs need more training than others.
You would never breed a working dog that doesn't have the ideal attributes for the job. Be it a guide dog (seeing eye dog) or sheep dog. You only breed the very best workers that just makes sense! Love your videos! And we can all see how much you love your animals. :)
she's probably an incredible working dog. But she's smart and young and wants stimulus. He just wants a set it and forget it barn dog that barks at things beyond the fence line and doesn't want work inside.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Sounds like Abby is not quite the perfect livestock dog, but she is still a perfect sweetie. And honestly, Toby Dog sets the bar really high for livestock dogs.
Not yet, but give her time. That is what his whole point is/was. He needs to continue to work with her. God Bless him for watching out for his feathered friends too!
Yeah it's all Toby faults 🤭🤭
Yeah the dogs we have had have all played with our birds (and killed em) as puppies except for a two. But as they get older they learn not to chase the stock unless to get them back to the coop. So who knows, maybe abby will be as good as toby as she gets older.
Toby was such a freaking natural that he totally set the bar higher than the start of the majority of LGD training. Lol. Toby is a golden boy.
The breeder family is correct. The owner is at fault for Abby's upbringing. By posting these videos; he is going to destroy the trust that Maremma dog owners got which they may give up any Maremma dog they got all because this video spooked them out.
Morgan, you weren't callous about Abby's breeder, you were simply honest. Which is exactly what your viewers expect from you on your channel. Shady people always get mad when someone tells the truth about them.
exactly
They want dat money
This is why Amber Heard and her legal team haven't shut up since Johnny Depp won his defamation case against her
You hit the nail right on the head with that comment!
So true!
Part of the reason I like GSF is because Morgan never has the attitude of "I'm an expert". It's mostly a journey of discovery that we get to tag along
Right from when she first came and I saw her first instincts with the cattle I knew she was a herding dog. She loves to run, she is a natural with the cows, and probably with goats and sheep as well. Her play instincts are perfect for cows.
But, primarily you are a poultry farm, so yes she needs more work. You have one dog perfect for your birds and one for your cows. But, you still need to be able to trust her around your birds.
Her kennel is half the square footage of my house for Pete sake! I think she is fine.
Not only that, but she's let out of her kennel in the morning (aside from when she's on limited movement due to being SPAYED). This breeder is like "she's been imprisoned for months!"
I wouldn't go as far as to call her a herding dog at all, herding is its own thing with a specific set of instincts required just like being a LGD.
Chasing animals is actually the opposite of what you want in a herding dog too.
Well said!
Yeah, I've seen small kennels and tbf, for a young dog who has gone after the livestock and is still in 'training'? That's not a small kennel, that's reasonable as she is also loose when it's time to 'work'. She's just growing out of that possibility to be a naughty dog and til she matures and settles a bit, keeping her in a kennel helps her by keeping her from messing up her job. Sure Toby can try to teach her, but human teaching is best and that takes a human there. Smh, Nothing wrong with that kennel. We've all seen her take her zoomies when she gets out and then chill and do the farm work.
It was his own fault. You don't get a dog based upon their reputation of base work line history and expect them to grow up to be exactly like what they were supposed to do. I have a Husky/Pitbull mix dog that I personally raised and trained starting from 3 months old into almost 1 year old now. My Husky/Pitbull boy dog is super good at protecting our backyard from intruders while at the same time safe guarding our bird nest that me and my family created in the backyard. Never once was I worried my dog boy would run around and decimate any wildlife that lands in our backyard unless I give him full permission. It seems like getting Abby dog was a poor choice from the start. He should had gotten a German Shepard or a Border Collie which their superior intelligence along with ability to herd would had been better than Abby dog.
The breeder in her blog states that Abby was socialized around poultry and the reason she chases chickens is because she’s kept in a kennel all day. If I remember correctly, Abby actually killed a chicken or two pretty early on BEFORE she had to be separated. That’s the very reason for the (very large) kennel. Had she not killed chickens, Morgan would not have had to separate her.
Yes! Thank you for bringing this up, all these people who don't actually watch his channel have no clue what they're talking about. He let her have full access to the 10 acres at night with Toby because he was locking up the birds but Blanche didn't go to bed and the next morning he found her half dead and Abby looking extremely guilty. He blamed HIMSELF and that's when the kennel went up. She'll learn eventually but kennel training is super normal for even inside house dogs, not just working dogs. The breeder is full of it.
This is a personal thought, but I think if what the breeder was telling the truth about Abby was raised around birds, I have a feeling the breeder probably let Abby chase the birds and encouraged her to do it and that's why it got worse and thatbis so hard to train it out of her.
Bingo. She clearly was not trained around birds.
@@PastelKaiju I thought the same thing. And probably that is the breeder's definition of socialising with birds.
@@julievoiceover Remember how Evil Santa Claus said Toby was a trained killer?
I checked out the breeder's blog, because I like to get both sides of a story when making up my mind. After noticing several contradictions and obvious inaccuracies in her posts, seeing this comment from her about you in response to a supporter of hers told me all I needed to know:
"I fear for (Abby's) safety, too. He can’t get rid of her without my permission but that won’t stop him from doing something bad to her and claiming she died mysteriously. I need a way to protect her from something like that."
This woman is all about creating drama. Anyone who has watched your videos would know how much you care for *all* of your animals. To imply that you would harm Abby is reprehensible slander of the worst sort. Oh, and speaking of slander, I'm sure you're aware, but she's working on a legal case against you. So be sure to read and save her posts - and comments - for if/when she decides to file a false slander case against you. That lady is nuts.
Very disturbing to say something like that.
@Dancing Daisies not really- sounds like he signed a contract in regards owning Abby, which means he has to abide by contract laws or he can get sued.
@@ananonymousbean2731 he hasn't violated anything in his contract and he wouldn't either. She's being dramatic and slandering his name. While he was being empathetic and addressing the concerns.
@@ananonymousbean2731 contracts across state lines for dogs are generally not enforceable. This breeder sounds more like a dog breeder and not a livestock guardian dog breeder. Abby waa purchased to perform a job, and if she can't perform that job, that's a financial loss for GSF.
@Dancing Daisies It's fairly common when buying (or even adopting) a dog to have to sign a contract saying you won't sell or give the dog away. I had to sign something like that when adopting a retired racing greyhound, and I've seen this in countless other animal adoption/sale contracts as well. According to the contract I signed, if I ever wanted to get rid of my greyhound, I would have to return her to the adoption group she came from, not sell or give her away. Contracts like those help ensure that dogs who come from reputable breeders/adoption groups remain in the homes that were evaluated and approved to house them, and aren't placed in a less desirable/appropriate situation. There are usually clauses included giving the group/breeder the right to reclaim the dog if they see evidence of abuse or neglect as well (from Abby's breeder's posts, it seems she also includes those bits). It's not really that unusual.
What is unusual is Abby's breeder going crazy over nothing, making up lies, and insinuating abuse of a dog who is clearly not only well loved, but extremely well cared for. Morgan needs to be incredibly careful to never post anything that could even remotely be interpreted as abuse/neglect of Abby, lest this breeder attempt to reclaim her by force using the contract he signed. I'm talking about something as innocent as him accidentally stepping on Abby's paw while filming, and including that bit in the posted video. I could see this woman using that as proof of "abuse" to try to take Abby back. The breeder already admitted to adding a new clause to all future contracts about keeping dogs in kennels too much, giving her the right to reclaim dogs whose owners don't give them the exact amount of freedom and space she thinks they should have. She even calls it the "Abby" clause. Oof.
I have no idea why someone who has a public business gets worked up over criticism from a customer. Her response should be 'we've heard his concerns and we will work to fix this issue'. Not 'he's wrong, he's bad' etc etc.
I hope she genuinely reforms her business practices, because the market for Maremmas is good with so many turning to farming and homesteading, and she now has a big stain on her reputation. Others may come forward thanks to Morgan being so prominent and clear in his criticism. I won't say I will wish her ill will since Morgan was adamant about that, but i will say that the circle is small and others are watching, so she should behave with more comportment and professionalism. Those blog posts of her ain't it.
Remember when the BBB mattered?
Yes! Even as a business owner, I look for improvement. Criticism is taken lightly and looked over to learn from.
That’s how I felt reading her blog post. It is crazy there are people that run their business that way. She said she is traumatized by “how Morgan talked about Abby.”
Like maybe don’t be a breeder if you get upset over comments like “her instinct with birds are to chase them.” “She has high pret drive.” Like She needs to grow thicker skin.
But to me I think she’s just mad that she got called out for her duplicitous practices and now it’s hurting her bottom line
This tells me that this breeder is indeed of one the bad ones
As a dog breeder, I have nothing but respect for you! Thank you for making the RIGHT decision in spaying her. You are absolutely in the right to spay a dog that is NOT breed appropriate temperament wise. So thank you for not perpetuating bad breeding practices.
I just have to say how much I appreciate the effort you’ve put into giving this dog a wonderful life and accommodating your life to fit HER needs and where she is in her training.
Funny how dog breeders voiced criticism in comments on her blog and got asked for their IDs and/or called morons.
How many people across the world have a dog on their couch who is a little mate to a champion beer to the show ring on the race track field trials et cetera. Yet they themselves physically haven’t come up to the mark or didn’t appear to be capable of doing so was a puppy and so they ended up on someone’s couch as a pet or doing the job they were originally intended to do Having been sterilised of at young age.
Abby‘s breeder needs to remember that fact she also needs to clearly take out of production some of her breeding stock who are carrying genetic traits are not desirable for working livestock guardian dog both at work and as a breeding animal.
For instance how many bitches in a litter you have bred on average which would be used for breeding down the line by either yourself or a third-party?
Hello Eve I'm glad to see you here as you are an excellent breeder and wanted to see the opinion from an actual reputable dog breeders on here.
@@alistairjamesheaton9155 I am definitely a small scale breeder in comparison to most, 1, maybe 2 litters a year. I would say typically im lucky if I end up with 1-2 “show quality” meaning serious show quality puppies per litter! But do those dogs work out as breeding dogs in the end? Nope definitely not consistently! After titling, health testing (even with quality parents and lineage) can come back insufficient for my standards. I am extremely picky about my breeding stock as I am not a dog hoarder and never want to be. I limit myself to 6 dogs total in my house at any given time. I place my retired show and breeding dogs in loving family homes, most of the time they end up with puppy owners. When someone buys a puppy from me, I am here from the moment they are born to the moment they leave this world. I consider my puppy owners my family and I wish more breeders would put the effort in to do the same.
@@Cowgirlevie you sound like an awesome breeder, I aspire to be a good responsible breeder as well, I'm eventually looking to breed Australian shepherds for agility or possibly to be trained as service animals I'm not sure yet, but I do know that I'll be doing my best to keep track of any puppy I produce (or rather help produce), and all pups will be chipped in my name/address just in case, any puppies/dogs purchased from me that the owner can't keep will be returned to me so that they don't end up in a shelter somewhere, I'm always doing research because there's always something new to learn, and lastly I will NEVER breed two merles together, ever, to anyone not in the dog breeding community or who doesn't know, two merles, which is dogs with those big blotches of colour on a solid color backing, will produce what's called a double merle/lethal white which is usually a horribly sad thing to see, the puppies are often born almost blind/totally blind/far too small or no eyes at all/deaf/partially deaf which is an extremely irresponsible thing to let happen
When the breeder states Abby was “socialized around poultry” did she mean the frozen chicken aisle at her local supermarket? 🤦🏼♀️ You’ve clearly been sold a dog incompatible with the needs of your farm, but much respect to you for being a responsible owner and not giving-up on her. 🐶💕
Absolutely, she was untrained and completely blindsided by the presence of poultry on the farm. That breeder is lying through her teeth! Hope she is reading these comments
I’m guessing she was socialised but without supervision or correction. So she learned before coming to Morgan that chasing poultry is a fun rewarding past time. I’m guessing it’s part her herding nature in her and part learned behaviour before coming to Morgan. Chasing poultry is sure fun if you’re not told off when you do it. Just ask any human toddler who’s run into a flock of birds.
😆😆
she never trained her around poultry for the extra time the breeder had her, you can tell.
She probably meant caged poultry Abby had no real access to.
I still think that Abby will be a great cattle dog, she seems to enjoy herding them around.
Yea i think her area is the cows while Toby's is at the birds.
I’m thinking that too. Morgan will still have to work with her around the birds, but it seems she is better suited for the cattle.
Smh they arent a herding breed I do aussie cattle dogs on my farm it’s completely different she has a chase prey drive
@@SarahsPets2004 Well it is not like he has a massive land area where they are spread out either. I think she will do fine within the space he has.
@@SarahsPets2004 I have 2 working line cattle dog puppies and I know exactly what you're talking about. She's chasing to catch, while my puppies work together to corner and stop whatever it is they're chasing while "aggressively" barking and nipping.
Morgan, I'm sure the advice of one voice amongst thousands means little, but I think it's best that you just ignore her. As a few others have said, she's just trying to cover her tracks after having a bit of a mark on her rep as a breeder, and feeding internet drama helps nobody. Albeit, it was important to adress the concerns with Abby dabby, so good on you for that ^^.
The breeder appears to be confusing breeding prestige pets with breeding working dogs. The two are not the same.
@@scottwatts3879 She is confused about a lot of things in my opinion. She’s marking her pups with paint because she is breeding so many of them that she isn’t capable of differentiating them anymore. Seeing all the drama involving her before the problem with Abby and her posts, she appears to be a pure commercial breeder who produces big numbers thinking only of prestige and money even if it’s detrimental for the genetics and health of her puppies and the breed. She had a bad reputation well before this drama with Morgan.
@@scottwatts3879 shouldn't breed inbred dogs for any purposes. It damages the health of the breed as a whole. Lazy breeding practices compounding over generation of dogs leads to widespread health of the breed.
Dude, as a farm owner if you were always showing the good I would be totally turned off. I appreciate you take the time to explain the goods, the bads and the optimism you use to approach all your projects. We all still love Abby and Toby so keep on keeping on!
your absolutely right
Exactly! 💯👍🏾🎯
As a breeder I am obligated to listen to my clients because if something comes up that involves the temperament or health of the kittens I am producing, it concerns me and involves me. Because I am the one who produced them. It's feed back to let me know if I should keep breeding the pair or that particular male or female so my program doesn't have issues.
Little to add. I recently was informed of a passed litter I produced who 2 kittens had a temperament issue is did not like at all. I retired that female who produced them. Not worth it for the looks and color. Temperament is the focus. She was a risk I had hoped the Tom's temperament would balance out, but obviously didn't. So that was on me. She's now living a retired life with someone local
As a vet, thank you for being responsible. You are one of the few golden breeders I would love to work with.
I'm a start up breeder for German shepherds because I love the breed and one saved me as a kid, I got my first males at the same time a pure white and a pure black with great genetics behind them. I had to close my white German shepherd line because of signs of aggression in my white male as a pup, and had him fixed a week after noticing the signs which stopped it in its tracks. I'm not getting rid of him he's still a good dog despite having to fix him. My black Shepard line is looking good, he has no agression at all, he's smart, temperament is wonderful anyone can pet him. Got my pure black female 2 years after I got my male, so he can breed with his female age 4 and she can breed with him at age 2. Currently she's 1 year, 6 months old already went through 2 heats, but still too young to breed. But She's looking good, smart, good genetics and also shows 0 aggression. My goal is to produce good shepard pups, where people can meet both parents without fear of getting bit.
There are things nobody can predict about a dog's temperament, but I like your take on this.
I had a somewhat opposite experience with my former hunting dog (German pointer, died of old age 7 years ago), he was the smallest of his litter and the breeder recommended me another pup, but the way he came to me and cuddled into my hands made me chose him and he turned out to be the best dog I ever had, both as a hunting partner and daily companion.
You are one of the few really good ones then. Sadly people like you are really getting rare these days.
As my main comment goes... I do not have any good memories regarding any breeders I personally had to deal with... I rather go for simple stray animals from shelters and have much better experience...
The most traumatized dogs/cats/ birds what so ever.. are in better shape then most breeds... at least where I come from... so pls dont take it personal that I talk that negative about breeders. I simply have yet to get one without Desaster and currently I am at point where I say: "shelter only!"
@@k9thundra GSDs are in need of some good breeders. Their genetics are going in the toilet with anxiousness, hip issues, aggression (that comes from the anxiety) and just unstable. That had to be miserable for the dog to live like that.
She’s just trying to cover her butt after exposing the failings of her kennel by selling to a high profile buyer. If it weren’t you, I am sure someone else would have exposed her. I just feel for all of the buyers and dogs involved. Edit: And as for her living conditions, Abby has a more generous kennel than most LGDs. Heck, better than most breeders provide for their dogs!
heck maybe even some Humans!
@@UntamedDamia seriously, if Abby had power and running water it would be just as good as my apartment lol
That flashlight would be abuse tho.
To my fashion sense.
There will always be negative people willing to spread the seeds of negativity. Abby has it made, well fed, and a great owner.
@@UntamedDamia LOL, when I did works in my patio, I made a new workshop where one had been, and put power there. Then, I took the lines to a derelict one that was just at the side. 30 minutes after setting the power lines there, with a plug and a lamp, a stray cat mate that shop his home...
this is like the bear hound hunting thing all over again. Breeders/hunters attacking you with what just mainly appear to be lies and you calmly explaining and showing all the evidence that what theyre saying isnt true.
Well, people don't tend to think they rather gather as a crowd and follow whatever someone else says and figure they're right because one of their friends decides to be uncultured.
I agree but what I am asking myself is why do you buy from that breeder in the first place who seems to have obviously a bad track record? Overall good learning though to invest enough time in research :D
@@schmitt_happens1558 They might've done a lot better job keeping that track record on the down-low or downplaying it in a believable way
The (NNRP) are everywhere. (NNRP) - is the (Neo Nazi Republican Party).
@@schmitt_happens1558 It's like what Amber Heard did to Johnny Depp. He didn't know of any bad reputation and was blinded by her charm. She badmouthed and treated him like crap throughout, but he couldn't see it. Once a deal was sealed, her facade had already slipped off, and she was already neck deep in plans for her exit-accusations.
"If someone is attacking me, I need to show more empathy." One more reason why I love your videos.
You are nicer than I am that is for sure. You just love your dogs , but it is good you bring up the issues that possibly this breeder isn't on the ball or again, might be not a very ethical or smart breeder. Definitely get a DNA check as one other person commented. Not sure how much inbreeding is allowed for a breeder to be considered NOT a puppy mill, but is worth checking out.
The fact that she told you that the genetic hernia didn't matter because Abby had the "perfect temperament" is ridiculous, she's the most energetic and playful guard dog I've ever seen.
The lady breeds defective dogs that are not farm dogs.
Numbers don't lie how many litters of puppies are there from the same mom
Abby looks like a good family dog, but not a farm dog
She's still a puppy, also animals are not robots or computer generated, they have different personalities temperament looks work ethic, she just needs more time then Toby and different training techniques, Morgan has his rose tinted glasses on and has the oh iv trained 1 dog already I know everything attitude
@@abcd1234jason When Toby was a puppy, he got used to the job quite quickly. Maybe because he was breed to be a farm dog...
That is the happiest and most carefree dog if I’ve ever seen one. I think the only criticism I will agree with is that the thumbnails on your recent videos sends the wrong message. Your videos and content speak for themselves, making clickbait titles really turns people away and I can see where the breeder might have gotten the wrong impression is they’re not an avid watcher. Abby is turning out to be much more of a match as a cattle dog. Of course this is just going off from a few videos but she has the best energy to deal with and even go after any wandering baby calfs. It’s certainly a solution if you decided to have her work w them instead of the poultry.
I absolutely agree with this. While it's clear to anyone actually watching the videos that Abbey is living her best life over here and yea, is facing some training issues, the thumbnails are... misleading in a way and send the wrong message. You're absolutely not wrong to think of these questions, as you then have to sit down with yourself and have these hard talks, which is an important things to do. But sometimes framing the thumbnail differently may help.
As for the breeder herself, she seems like a number of other poor breeders I've come across in the dog world as someone who is going down a similar road with Labradors. Sometimes we don't realize how much drama there is associated in this community but god is there a lot. And she just seems to be one of those types of breeders.
I agree with the thumbnails. They have been (a bit) click baity sometimes now recently. Usually I don't watch videos that are obvious click baits at all but I have watched Morgans videos because I knew it would be actual content and not just pure click bait. But even then yeah I agree. Even though I know "it's not what the thumbnail says" I still sometimes freak out a bit thinking "what's going on?!".
Solid comment. Hope this gets seen.
Yep, she's just reacting from the thumbnails, not actually watching the videos. She gets angry right off the bat and that's it. I'd recommend changing those thumbnails, and being more careful with them in the future.
I love Morgan, but I agree with you about the thumbnails. He doesn't need clickbait titles with this many subscribers. It's just insulting us at this point.
I'm only 9 minutes in, but I think it was right that he didn't breed Abby
Because if you want to be a GOOD breeder, you got to breed only the most healthiest and good temperament of dogs
They can't have hip issues or anything, they got to be HEALTH
For you to be a good, responsible breeder
I do want to say, if you haven't been doing this already
Maybe when Abby looks at the birds then back at you, you say good girl, and maybe give her a treat after words
Basically teaching her, looking at the birds then back at me is a good thing
Even when she's watching the baby birds without being playful should be praised, and if you caaaan-
If you see her about to want to play with the birds, get her attention, have her sit down instead
So she snaps out of wanting to play with the birds
I hope that helps!
I'm now 14 minutes in and....I will say, I enjoy how open and honest you are, you're telling people how you think and feel about it, and at first people might not agree with you, but after you dig deeper into why you thought that way....I'm someone who agrees with what you do
You're an amazing person and I look up too, to be a good person and pet owner and whatever else
In fairness, if you slow the video and read what the breeder has to say, it seems very reasonable. She claims that the hernia thing is a minor issue and that it does not prevent these dogs receiving championship prizes, that other breeding attributes of the dog are more important, e.g. temperament and hips. Plus she offered to refund all outlaid money including Abby's surgery and transport.
Well said.
@@si_vis_amari_ama but hernias request surgery since not all organs are at their place. In Abby’s case its very likely it’s genetic. Breeding dogs that need surgery is a no go.
@@jalifritz8033 tell me you know nothing about dog breeding with out telling me you know nothing about dog breeding! It would be extremely rare for an umbilical hernia to cause organs to be out of place, most vets only repair them on bitches because it’s close to where a spay would take place, so makes sense to do it while there just because. On dogs it’s 50/50 whether they are done because unless the vet is doing surgery in that area or it’s an unusually large hernia it can be left with no problems occurring.
@@jalifritz8033 umbilical hernias are the same thing as people with an outi belly button. The idea that it's some type of genetic issue is hysterical. There are different types of hernias that are problematic but not an umbilical hernia... you don't know anything about breeding you're just speculating.
Hi Morgan,
I have no clue if my messages have any value to you, but I'm trying to share from my experience as a former breeder. I didn't breed Maremmas, but German Pointers, which are also working dogs with a different area of expertise (also including birds, which the dog isn't allowed to play with or hunt by himself, willy-nilly).
What I can tell you so far is :
1. The only genetic predisposition to umbilical hernia is a weak abdominal wall as a puppy (and the predisposition of the mother to lack patience and be brutal), which doesn't say much about the adult dog. I have talked about the umbilical hernia issue before, and I see it as a very small problem (if the hernia is not a huge one), if one at all.
2. Abby was NOT desensitized or trained to birds by the breeder. EVER. I can make an average German Pointer to not hunt livestock birds if I have it as a 1,5 - 2 months old puppy, and it's a bird hunting breed. The breeder simply lied to you. That's why she recommended that you put Abby in with the cattle, because she knew ahead of time about her bird issues, and STILL lied to you and sold you - for a lot of money - a dog that was, at the time, unfit for the work you declared you wanted to do with her. You will have your work cut out for you, but if you persist, you can still train her, although it is much harder now.
3. The breeding with Toby issue. No dogs were bred in this scenario, so she has NOTHING to say about that. If Toby couldn't be registered, you could have bred her with a registered dog from Toby's line anytime you wanted. In short, it's none of her business, as long as you didn't breed an unregistered dog. Did she expect you to breed her without the necessary tests, or what ? You should do the tests anyway, to assess her genetic health and know what to expect when she gets older.
3. Any breeder who tells you that they are targeted by or have issues with the breed club is a problem breeder.
4. Any breeder who whines about competitors (I saw the word mentioned in one of her posts you showed) is a problem breeder.
5. The number of puppies they sell is not an issue, unless it is linked to overbreeding their dogs.
I hope this helps.
P.S. I still have 2 adopted German Pointers, but I've given up on breeding (from lack of time) a long time ago. My breeding dogs were champions and parents of champions and I never owned more than 2 adult breeding females at the same time (breeding dogs wasn't my source of income).
That’s excellent context. Thanks!
I myself own LGDs and have purchased from breeders before (not the one Morgan purchased from, however) and the second point you make isn’t necessarily true.
I’ve found that even the most extensively socialized puppies can still act exactly that… like puppies. They’re still young, and often when they’re first introduced into a new situation like a new home, they’ll try to push buttons and test the waters to see what they can get away with. I think the initial experience with raising Toby(who generally was a much easier puppy to train) has made Abby’s issues go improperly trained.
@@eviesilvers1744 it’s almost like he has to actually train her if he wants her to be well trained.
@@GoldShawFarm I'm from wnc mountains. It is harsh, but when a farm dog kills a bird, you tie it to their collar till it rots, and they will never go for one again. Do what you think best.
You are doing great. Thank you for sharing your world with us.
I wish more breeders were like you. Not making a n income out of puppy breeding but doing it because they are a beautiful thing to do. They are so much work! I recently bottle fed a rescue litter of 5 that was abandoned in a box. They take a lot of time. Then you completely fall in love with them because you truly put so much work into them.
I respect when people do what I call sensible breeding. Thank you!
My hope is that some day animals will have more rights than they do today and they will be treated more sensibly 😉
You can bet the breeder wanted to buy Abby back so she could use Abby as a breeding female.
I really think you should do a DNA test on Abby. Considering what we've seen of the breeder's behaviours, I am very suspicious that Abby might have other hidden genetic conditions. If she does have something lurking in her genes, you need to know.
Abby is already fixed so no worries
@@strawhat9197 not really. genetics tests will include conditions Abby can be predisposed to, regardless if she's spayed. and it'll say if she's truly 100% Maremma.
@@strawhat9197 I'm aware. I'm not saying this in regards to her having puppies, but for her own health. What worries me is that some conditions don't always show up when a dog is young. What if she has genes that give her a higher risk for cancer or something? It's better to be safe than sorry.
She's been spayed, sp moot point.
@@TeenDream888 You should also be worried of Abby getting spayed at 9 months old. I read comments in this video of people worrying about it saying she was too young for that, for such a large dog.
If the breeder says that this is another video attacking her, she's wrong. This is you clearing up as many of her falsely made accusations that you can. We all love you, Abby, Toby, and all the cows. Don't let anyone say what you can or can't do.
Yup, the breeder’s words are the actual allegations that could ruin Morgan while he’s just stating things as is.
Plus if she really was a responsible breeder, she wouldn’t be giving puppies away when they show sign of a genetic disorder, she’d be trying to research to see if there anything wrong first.
Plus her outburst simply cements her nonprofessionalism so if ppl stops their business with her, that’s ALL on her and no one else.
Abby can indeed be a good guard dog. She's just best suited for being a cattle guard dog than she is for being a poultry guard dog.
I think she would be fantastic with the cattle. From what he’s shown it seems like he rarely has to get onto her when around the cattle.
He is primarily a poultry farm and Abby cannot continue to kill them. He neeeds her to not attack them.
@@Flowergurl2000 True. Because ultimately even if she is in the cows is winter quarters there is going to be chickens appearing all living in the same space with them and also in the summer they’ll be out with Morgan’s cowherd.
What do you mean by cattle guard dog? As long as there is no wolves in his area cattle don't need to be protected from anything. And wolves are extinct in Vermont. I think it is best to give/sell Abby as pet to someone and get a new dog, if he still needs.
@@mustafayldrm3449 He made it clear he's not going to give/sell the dog. He definitely loves Abby just takes time for him to train her, just because she's good in one area doesn't mean she doesn't need to work on other areas that she needs to be taught. I understand it's frustrating to see but that does comes in the price but he knows the price and he's willing to go through with taking care of the dog.
As somebody who works closely with agricultural K9 handlers, the breeder calling Kenneling “solitary confinement” in the screen clips is so silly.
That's a kind word for it.
The fact the breeder expressed the concern of people returning or selling their own puppies because they don't have the correct temperament, does make me think that this isn't the first time buyers complaining about temperament issues have come up for her. A few people who have read her blog have said she's written about previous issues of puppies killing her ducks. I haven't look to check myself, but if that's the case, it's definitely a standing issue with their temperaments, and it should've been disclosed that she's had previous issues with them killing birds, and as such might need more training around poultry than most meremas.
My guess is she breeds them as pets rather than as LGDs. I would actually suggest getting Abby a DNA test done. If she's a mix further back or is inbred, she might have health predispositions you're not aware of. Choose a DNA test that measures her COI. That will tell you if she's inbred. If the breeder is overbreeding (which is certainly sounds like), the chances there's also some inbreeding are higher.
There is that rule. If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you're an asshole.
If she had numerously problems reported from multiple people, they likelihood of her being the problem is significantly high.
Yes, that temperament issue seems more important to me than the hernia issue. The dogs are supposed to protect the animals, not kill them. Abby's breeder and this other breeder on RUclips have been going on about how you have to do a lot of work with your dog for the first two years to be able to trust them around the animals they're expected to protect. Are you kidding me??? Aren't these livestock GUARDIAN dogs?
And it's weird that the puppy specifically chosen by the breeder to work with poultry was focused on the poultry in a not good way from day one. But who knows? Maybe that was the calmest puppy in the litter.
my exact thoughts. we see how hard it was for morgan to find a breeder not connected to toby so do we really think this lady is going through all of that? enough to run a business of many litters? breeders are infamous for inbreeding.
As someone who raises and owns LGDs and is very involved in the community, LGD puppies are very likely to kill poultry if given the right opportunity. They're puppies and it's not a defect of their LGD instincts, they're just dog toddlers that don't know any better and want to play with their feathery toys. It's the job of the owner to not set them up for failure and leave them in situations where they're likely to act on their bad behavior. I don't know the breeder's set up, but it's harmful to speculate the breeder is breeding bad temperaments based on that alone. Of note, Toby seems to have been trained very differently from Abby, and was not allowed unsupervised contact with the birds (he had a perimeter fence surrounding the duck pen for most of his adolescence IIRC). Abby, under the tutelege of Toby was given much more freedom than Toby at her age. Thus, her opportunity for failure was much higher.
@@ColonelKlink100 LGDs are big dogs, and they take a while to mature. Abby is less than a year old. Would you trust a giant 7 year old to reliably make good decisions? LGD owners know that good dogs take work, and 2 years is the baseline most trainers will set for being able to trust an LGD UNSUPERVISED. It's a very common story among LGD owners for their untrustworthy dogs who harm/chase livestock, bark excessively or exhibit other undesirable behaviors will suddenly turn in to model dogs after a period, like a switch was turned. An owner can do everything right and still end up with a dog that misbehaves. Sometimes it may be that that dog isn't a good fit for their operation, but sometimes they just need to give it a bit of time. Morgan likes to hail Toby as a 'natural', and to a certain extent there are dogs that just seem to have some 'poultry guarding gene' and they take to birds like most other LGDs take to hoofstock. But I'm sure there was more than Morgan probably realizes that went into Toby's training to make him the model LGD he is today, and from what we've seen on the channel, IMO it seems Morgan may have relied too heavily on Toby mentoring and supervising Abby, and trusting that Toby would correct her bad behaviors when he isn't there to watch her.
The fact that she is downplaying the hernia in her puppies and likely still breeding the parents, means her attacks are more about her fear of losing the 3K per future puppies, not that she cares about producing better dogs.
Her 3k per dog shouldn't be a thing unless the parents are proven and tested very well
Her reasoning for it was morgan never had breeding rights in the first place, so it shouldn’t matter if the hernia was genetic or not because he shouldn’t be breeding her regardless, but it’s still fishy on both sides.
Yup
I mean, he brought her - so if he wants to breed her with Toby, he can?
I mean nice that she disclosed the Hernia...But Downplaying is not good.
@@Kairos_Akuma that’s not how it works at all…
That breeder is trying to put the blame on you so she can keep on selling her poorly bred dogs you are not in the wrong at all , keep up the great work. Love you’re vids!
You are absolutely 💯 % right.
Instead of saying sorry. The breeder playing the blaming game.
fully agree with you
Not just poorly bred but poorly trained. the breeder had Abby for extra time promising to expose and train Abby around poultry. she obviously didn't do any of that and it shows. A pups first 4 months of life is critical in training around other animals.
@@k9thundra I fully agree on that part I think that it is partly Morgan’s fault for buying the dog so late on in its life, but saying that you will expose the dog to poultry and the elements and not doing that is such a stupid thing to do it can ruin the dogs whole life and cost the owner so much money
@@k9thundra Yep. And IMO that’s the reason Toby was far easier to train…bc he got him much younger! Which is something I’ve commented on multiple videos since he 1st got Abbie. I admire & respect him for being dedicated to keeping her. But I hope if he every gets another dog to potentially breed with Toby that he gets it at the same age as he got Toby. There is a reason that nearly all specially trained dogs start their training at a VERY early age. There is some truth to the saying “can’t teach an old dog new tricks” & more truth to “you can’t unteach an old dog bad habits”. Both ARE possible…but typically only with extreme persistence & patience.
I found you when I wanted ducks last year and was preparing for them this spring. You care deeply for your animals and it shows. When she asked “why would you keep a dog that’s considered a ‘failure’?” My immediate response was because it’s a pet above all else!
Our two ducks are for eggs, but we also don’t plan on killing them once they stop producing. They bring absolute joy into our lives and our dog has super high prey drive as well and wants to kill them, so we have their run in a fenced off area of our yard. We aren’t going to get rid of either of them, just take precautions to keep them safe.
Animals are more than property, they’re living beings and I am glad you kept Abby because she is an integral part of your farm family now. ♥️
Forever my favourite farmer, love a duck mum in the city. 🥰🦆
Ok as a breeder I can see some problems with how the breeder sold Abby. Now please note that I breed rats not dogs and while I'm not trying to say my way is perfect, it's a example.
1. I would never breed rats with genetic health problems, and I especially wouldn't sell a rat with a ghp knowing buyer wants to breed said rat.
2. Most rats are categorized by breeder, pet, or feeder. Breeder rats are rats that are still pets but have idle features for breeding ( healthy, and good temperament). Pets are rats who are healthy and have great temperaments but may have a ghp making them unfit for breeding, they're make great pets but not for breeding. Feeders are rats that aren't healthy, deformed ( think missing organs, most rats that are deaf, blind or missing a limb or toe, live full happy life's. of course I wouldn't sell them tho) , or have poor temperament ( aggressive, health problems that can't be cured or will worsen thier life, or are still born.) these rats are humanly euthanized and sold for pet food.
Really she shouldn't have sold you Abby knowing you wanted to breed, and is a poultry farm. She really should have told you this pup isn't fit for breeding due to ghp which has a high chance of passing on in her pups, and that she may not be fit for poultry due to high energy and would do better with goats and sheep.
Seems there is a standard across the board. I am a Vet and work with companion animals. Most breeders like you are great to work with. Then you get the flaky ones.
Unethical breeders are the reason German Shepherds have bad hips. It's California. It's a puppy mill this poor dog came from. Very obvious to see.
I want to be a dog breeder and have had two dogs who haven't been fit for breeding so 100% agree. One I couldn't breed as despite great health she is very fearful and just does not have the temperament I would want in a dog and the other has a brilliant temperament and drive but has shown signs of mild epilepsy and carries a codominant gene which whilst doesn't directly affect his health can make it harder to diagnose health conditions related to his liver so I chose not to breed from either. Breeding done right takes a lot of time, commitment and money so it would concern me that people would breed dogs who have shown they may not be good to breed and suggests they may be in it more for the money than to improve or contribute to the breed
I think she heard "Livestock" Guardian dog and thought it only pertained to cattle and goats and the like, not poultry. I think the breeder just let Abby chase birds and didn't take him seriously.
@Elle exactly I wish breeders like her didn't happen it gives all of us a bad rap, and even worse is the more animals are bred with disregard for ghp the the breed is worsen as a whole
Honestly, in my experience with dobermans, the breeder can make such a huge difference in temperament of the dogs. We got a doberman, and he was a cute puppy, but as he became a teenager, he started attacking our jackrussels. He almost killed one of them, had him by the throat and shaking his head. I had to pry his mouth open with my hands. We did everything we could to reintegrate them. To curb his aggression and resource protection behavior. But we couldn't. And that was the first and only doberman we had that problem with. And it turns out the 'reputatable' breeder was in fact not reputable and the dog was very inbred.
Gosh! What a terrifying experience! As an adult, I have no needs for my pets to fill. I've been getting discarded pets for years. Such love and companionship is a wonderful blessing. I cannot imagine how difficult it was to deal with that situation. Very sad. So sorry for your losses all around. God bless you.
Did you kill your dog?
You do have to admit that terriers are pretty provocative at times, themselves. They don't care if the other dog is 10 times bigger!
That being said, as a breeder/exhibitor/groomer/vet assistant for most of my 6+decades, I believe that temperament is inherited 100%. Now, that temperament can be molded, for good or bad, but basically, if a dog is aggressive, whether to other dogs or humans, or both, no amount of training will make them fool proof. Ever. So, yes, the Breeder is the first place to look, but not so much for rearing the puppies, but for carefully choosing parents with excellent temperaments.
You can certainly ruin a dog with a good temperament. But, I do not believe, that you can change a temperament. So yes, some folks work hard with aggressive dogs, and it may seem they are OK after a long, tedious, dedicated while, but they are never to be trusted.
@@justicedemocrat9357 No we did not put him down. Thankfully he wasn't aggressive towards humans. We gave him to a doberman rescue who was able to rehome him to a home with no other animals and only adults. We would have tried to find a home for him ourselves, but at the time my mom was starting to die from cancer, and we didn't have the time or resources.
Please do not perpetuate the "inbred" theory as to why your dog was aggressive to your JRT. It has nothing to do with his temperment.
Some people just like to deflect blame onto others like that breeder. I love you channel and it helps me get thru my depression. Dark times lately and I’m so happy I found this channel.
Abby is a house dog. How that breeder thought Abby had the temperament to be a livestock guardian dog is ridiculous.
I agree with you we have a German Shepherd and it tries to attack Our chickens
Get well soon, Sassytot. The channel is helping me with my desease too...
Bo hoo im sad I have depression Boo fucking Hoo
@@hjjjhkj What part of he's with her no less than 6 hours A DAY, much of that dedicated to working on training, do you not understand??? Seriously, watch the damn video and listen to his words.. .SMH
If the last 5 years in veterinary medicine have taught me anything it's that 99.9999999% of all dog breeders are sketchy AF. Truly good dog breeders are about as rare as a rainbow at night. Btw I think you're obviously an amazing dog owner, like definitely in the top 1% of dog owners, how many dog owners can say they spend 6 hours a day on training that's phenomenal!
And I would say 90% of vets know next to nothing about dog breeding.
As a dog trainer who works at a big chain pet store, I would agree that the majority of breeders are sketchy
Breeders are not geneticists. Their isn’t enough regulations on breeding at all. Breeding usually does more harm than good. And at the end it it an income for them.
I can say I spent every hour of the day minus the time sleeping raising my four dogs… and the one time I fell asleep during the day and didn’t crate my border collies I woke up to find my room ransacked 🤣
And the result is awesome well behaved dogs… sometimes they need an e-collar beep though due to instincts and youthful exuberance 😊
@@charlietarantola3570 even less about diet 😂
600 sq ft? That's a mansion. There are people living full-time in RVs that are only 400 sq ft. Seriously Morgan, don't let the biatch get to you. We all know how much you love your animals.
Yeah my apartment is 1200 sq ft. I have a ton of junk and my life still fits fine.
Its a small house in Europe lol, she has plenty of space, surrounded by activity from the birds and gets to go out every day, sounds like a good prison to me
Lol, my apartment in grad school was smaller.
@@TheKruxed I think her space is huge and well maintained
My house is under 800 sq ft. Abby's doing pretty good.
Shouting accusations and making threats means that no one sane will ever buy from that breeder again. Abby looks like a happy well adjusted dog with plenty of space, attention and stimulation for her to enjoy her life at the farm. (especially spaces for her to dig.)
Guilty and nasty. Idk i ain't gotta sleep with it!!
I sleep awesome at night.😄
Morgan, you’re a good man. Responsible bird farmer. Good to all your animals. Challenged in the garden. I learn something every time I watch. It’s why I watch you and Allison. 🙂
Not challenged in the garden 😭
Same here I not trying to be mean to the breeder but she should have tell about that but that my opinion but abby is a good dog so she can leave yall be it ur opinion not her
@@Ladydawnthewoodduck She had mentioned it but basically just let it slide on by as if it was nothing to be concerned about. Really she was under no obligation to not sell the puppies but it is on the future owner of the pups not to buy them when aware of the umbilical hernia and intending to breed more dogs.
@@evelynharber6077 true but still it not that cheap for what abby has especial when ur a Famer who want to have puppies with her
This is curious. Your comment came hour sooner than video was published to audience. Sooucking up? But person speaking in video is trying, but he got dogs /I think, both of them/ wrong. And he does what any dog owner should never do, and that is speaking ill before any creature who could grasp 5000-7000 words of human language. So maybe good husband, cat owner, poultry feeder, but despicable dog owner. It shows, because he choose breed which is unsuitable for beginner, he choose breed which is not suitable to any animal he got on his farm, because white Pyreneeses and their sub-species are specifically breed for sheep and even then they need special training starting from 6-7 week. There is actually no species of dogs which “shepard” poultry, there are only dog breeds which are amenable to guard poultry pens and fences without trying to cull the fence and feathery animals also. So wrong, man/Morgan. Also Tobby is gem, but I would be not sure about his tendencies after 2+ yr. More in my separate comments, as of biologist and person who had always dog and I come from country when one of white sub-Pyrenees dog originate, so was in contact with more than 20 adult specimens in my life, to never want to own adult one.
Dog trainer here (obedience, agility, protection, felony and evidence search).
The goal of any training is to channel the dog's behavior to help the dog develop it's full potential. Prey drive (ie the stalk, chase, capture, kill sequence) and defensive drive are present to some degree in all dogs, and the balance of these drives often changes as the dog matures. Each dog is an individual and the rate of maturation and the overall level and balance of these basic drives is unique to the individual. Keep in mind that it is always better to set a dog up for success than correct it after the fact. The basic tenet of dog training is that dogs learn through motivation, not correction. Correction is used only to reduce the undesirable behavior when a well-schooled dog steps out of line.
Keep these steps in mind whenever you train:
1. show the dog what you want it to do
2. help the dog understand the task
3. perfect the exercise
Give Abbey time. Large breed dogs mature more slowly and Abbey won't be fully mature until she's 2-3 yo. Some dogs are responsive from day one and some dogs are unruly, undisciplined and have no self-control when they are kids, then one day, like magic, they settle down. Abbey will be on steps 1 and 2 for a long time.
I haven't seen all the Abbey videos, so forgive me if I comment on something you've already addressed. I have a few suggestions that might make Abbey's training a little smoother.
Distraction and redirection:
You need to motivate Abbey in a way that resonates with her. Learn to make yourself a bigger draw than the birds. Distract her, and when you have even a flicker of her attention, try to redirect her prey drive to an alternate target (ball, toy), something she really enjoys and which you use only for this purpose. Practice being the best, most fun owner during her regular obedience sessions, so you both learn the correct behaviors and you can deploy your inner clown self at the drop of a hat. It's hard work, juggling and doing back flips, but that work will pay off in the long run. Remember, distraction and redirection are the goals.
Abbey's free-range area should be reduced significantly. It should small enough that she is unable to begin the chase/capture/kill part of the sequence. A smaller area also means you will be more able to distract and redirect her before she gets out of hand. You really need to be on your toes and interrupt her (distraction) at the earliest possible moment of the prey drive sequence and redirect her attention. Watching video of her prior crimes to determine the moment she makes the go/no-go decision will help you get ahead of her.
Eliminate the correction:
Don't yell at her or chase her around if you can help it. Yelling and chasing can be interpreted as threatening behavior and can reduce her trust in you. You want to draw Abbey to you, rather than have her try to out maneuver you. If you absolutely cannot distract her, dive in between Abbey and her prey, then switch to distraction/redirection techniques to draw her in and channel her behavior to an appropriate outlet.
Always reward her the moment you have her attention (even for a second) and don't bother correcting her when she makes mistakes. When you are able to divert her attention to you EVERY TIME, and she has a solid response to you and has shown consistency for a few weeks, then you can introduce correction when if she backslides.
Remember, Abbey learns something from every attempt she makes. If the lesson is that Dad-play is way more fun than the birds, it's worth every bit of effort you put in. It will address the problem and build a stronger bond better you and your dog.
I hope that helps. Abbey's a beautiful dog and worth every ounce of effort you put in. She's just going to take more time than you anticipated. Good luck and go have some fun with her!
Very good advice in dog training, but Maremma's are a whole breed of thier own, you cant train them in the sence of your pet, they are extreme free thinkers and will do what they think to what needs to be done in order to protect the animals and humans they are bonded too, wolf blood 🐵
@@mandyschlitt7834 The same basics still apply because it's still a dog, working, pet or guard dog doesn't matter.
It's all training to get your dog to focus and look at you in the first place, if you can't get that done you wont get your dog to do much else consistently.
Different breeds might have some differences in what needs more attention but the core stays the same and this guy described it perfectly. If you get that down with your dog, you're set and will have a much easier time with more advanced training (whatever that is, pet, guard, lifestock, service dog).
I've seen too many people go as far as 'ruin' their dog and give them to a shelter (or worse, abandoning them), because they think to skip the basics and either go to 'breed specific training' (in vain, because they cant communicate with their dog), or think the basics don't apply to their dog at all. And what do they all say? 'This dog has problems'. No it really does not. They're the ones with problems.
Never discard what this guy said because you're working with a specific breed. It applies to all dogs! It's very important for everyone to remember that before moving on to anything else.
How about he actually trains her to guard the livestock in the first place, instead of all of this indirectness of abstract general obedience lessons? He should still do the obedience sessions daily, but has he ever taught her what he expects her to do as a guard dog, or boarded her in a program for that? Or does she actually have nothing to do all day, except occasionally listen to him for a split second, and is basically unemployed and a puppy with tons of energy and a natural prey drive?
@@blueraven0075 The principles of training are the same regardless of the task/behavior you are training the dog to perform or how basic or advanced the level of training you are doing.
Generally, stock dogs like border collies are trained in a methodical, progressive fashion, with a good deal of handler involvement. It makes sense to train this way because the dog and handler will be working as a team - the dog is never sent out the door to go herd sheep by itself.
Livestock guardian dogs are more along the lines of "solo practitioners" and do their jobs independent of a human handler. Once the dog learns the basics of not harassing the stock, the dog is given small increments of responsibility under the handler's eye until their instinct to take responsibility for their stock combined with their protective instincts takes over. When they are paired with an older, more experienced dog, they gradually learn to model that dog's behavior.
At no point should young dogs have free reign with the stock - it's too easy for them to learn the wrong lessons. Puppies like Abbey should only be given a small area in which to interact with stock, under the handler's supervision.
I've made some very basic, low effort suggestions on this thread. And even then these posts are overly long. I'm sure if Morgan wanted specifics, he'd contact me.
@@BuzzyStreet I like most of your points, but the same principle that I trained my golden retriever to retrieve when hunting and spent times with him on that, or attack dogs are trained to attack, I would train my dog to guard too, directly, practicing different scenarios.
Maybe it’ll work if he doesn’t directly practice realistically, maybe it won’t. But if it doesn’t, it’s insane to blame it on her personality or genetics to me, just assuming she’ll do it, and partially spay her for that. I don’t think not harassing enough personally, I would at least dress up myself or someone else in realistic costumes and chase the chickens and tell my dog to attack or stop.
I hope he calls you though.
The fact that the breeder doesn't think a genetic condition is an issue if baffling to me. A genetic condition that requires surgery no less.
I got a German shepherd pup from a breeder that didn't remove the back dewclaws when he was born. I had to pay for the surgery to get them removed. Keeping them would of been a risk of them getting ripped of while running around and him bleeding to death.
Her living space is bigger than my first apartment, baby girl is doing just fine LOL-- jokes aside, you did a great job on addressing the breeder in this video, good on you for standing up for Abby and your farm!
It's bigger than my first apartment too, and probably my second.
First apt? It’s bigger than the house I’m living in now. Abby even has a bigger yard than I do. I’m jealous. Plus she gets three square meals a day… lucky pup.
As a city girl who sometimes dreams of escaping to farm life, I appreciate your honesty and transparency when it comes to both how rewarding yet challenging your lifestyle can be. Yes, as you said in the video, there may be improvements as to how you communicate that honesty. Mistakes and misunderstandings are part of the journey, on both sides. But, ultimately, your integrity and kindness should shine through. I'm excited to see how Abby will grow with you. She's a bit of a handful, but she's dedicated and sweet, too. Good luck!
Absolutely! I use Morgan as a learning tool for when I can finally do the same thing and escape city life. He openly posts his mistakes and we can learn from his mistakes. He had said that a few times! To help others like him to learn from his mistakes! I love Morgan...he is my idol!
I’m not the only one that feels like escaping to a farm lol
Hey Morgan I was wondering if you’d ever consider adding subtitles to your videos? I have a hearing disorder and auto subtitles are never very accurate. It would make watching your videos much more enjoyable and I’m sure your hard of hearing and deaf followers would appreciate it
Have you tried the closed captioning that is built in? That's what I use for my lack of hearing. I'm guessing it isnt always accurate but it gets the job done. =)
@@vicurro She has, that's why she said " auto subtitles are never very accurate".
@@nillyk5671 oh right. I guess i should read the whole thing. 😅
There is an automatic option at the top
@@vlcharp i made the same mistake in my reply. OP says the auto cc is innacurate
I think the decision from the breeder that it was best to keep Abby from bird exposure for the first three months alone is a telltale sign that you weren’t the one in the wrong, early exposure is very important especially when she has a bigger prey drive. I find it very hard to believe from Abby’s behaviour that the breeder socialized her with birds at all
It’s so clear that you love Abby anyone who actually watches your videos it’s obvious
I think you handled this beautifully. You were so gentle and calm. GREAT JOB. And honestly, your posts about your troubles are doing a HUGE service to new homesteaders who think they need a LGD but don't know the first thing about them and think you just put the dog out with the critters and they know what to do and everything goes swimmingly. I particularly loved your last line about how for you this is frustrating but for her its trauma. Beautiful insight. My one piece of advice would be, now that you've covered it, don't feed any more fuel to her fire by continuing to address her issues with you. There's this great line, "When you finally learn that a person's behavior has more to do with their own internal struggle than it ever did with you, you learn grace." She will not be dropping this. But anyone with a healthy mindset will be able to see where she's at and how she's thriving on the drama triangle (worth googling by the way, if you don't know the term). Keep giving us updates on Abby. But leave the breeder out of it from now on. She'll find her own way, or not, but its none of your business what she thinks of you at this point.
Brilliant advice, Jennifer.
He's using his clout and superiority to gain support for his beliefs, at which he's not responsible for accepting a dog with a genetic disorder. She even offered to buy the dog back. But him being a business man said she should pay him 4000 dollars. His words! Why is he getting attached to a failure a disappointment a genetic reject, if the sole purpose of this dog was to breed and to be a Live stock guardian dog, not a pet a house dog a companion. I knew when I fist saw Abby her behavior was very different from other LGDs I've seen before. To top it off, no professional training to ween out bad habits and unwanted behavior traits. At the end of it all, I see it one one-way and your see it differently.
It is his business when she is accusing him of slander. This is what she is doing.
@@Jo3W3st but he also states that he figured that the $4,000 would be a starting point and that they would go back and forth until you come to a mutual agreement. That is how it works. One side is high and the other is low and the two of you go back and forth. Just like if you go to a pawn shop to sell something or buy something from them you can have that along with buying a vehicle and a house.
@@Jo3W3st did you watch the video? He didn't call her a failure or a disappointment. Those are dramatic video titles to grab attention, most successful RUclipsrs do that and he shared a clip from the video where he specifically said to answer the question no she's not a failure. He also didn't say genetic reject. He explained why he felt it was the responsible thing to do to spay her and not risk passing on the high prey drive. I'm not sure why you feel that's an insult rather than a responsible decision?
I'm only really involved with horses, and let me tell you the drama in this industry is nuts. But it's honestly true of any type of livestock. Animals attract the worst kinds of people.
I didn't knock this! But it would make sense that a lot of 'emotional' people go into it
i'm so sorry they decided to attack you for your perfectly reasonable stance on not breeding abby for her imperfections when it comes to breeding specifically for guard dogs, but instead continuing to love her and train her anyway. i really respect the calm, compassionate way you handled this. i hope this didn't hurt you guys too much, much love from canada
this is such a nice kind comment
@@colecolettecole thank you!😊💖
Some dogs, bred for specific tasks, will not excel in said task. It's completely normal and a breeder should know that. Let's say if a shepherd buys a Border Collie that ends up incontrollable around sheep because the dog has zero herding instinct, he'd be right for calling that dog a failure in that one specific regard (if the issues weren't caused by bad training). It's probably still an amazing dog, but of no use to the shepherd.
I do find that you pick titles that are leading, like "Is she a Disappointment?" but I understand that this is a RUclips platform and you need to make an income from your videos. I would rather have seen a title like "Abby: What has she got against chickens?" or something less negative. But really, this is you and your style. You keep doing you, and I'll keep watching. Thank you for posting.
This was my thought. If you post a thumbnail for a video discussing Abby and the thumbnail has "failure" in it or in the title it could be construed, at best, as misleading if they watch the entire video and, at worst, as you outright calling Abby a failure. Just some food for thought for how you handle future videos.
I noticed that as well and don't like it but do understand the nature of RUclips that encourages, even requires, such creativity. It's annoying but goes with the territory.
I'm one of the strange people who actually love your videos.
I had a Hungarian Kuvasz Kennel here in Sweden.
So Toby dog and Abby girl are my favourites.
I share the opinion of your Headlines for your videos. Disappoint and Failure made me stand on Abby's side turning against you. Because Abby can never ever be those things. So I started looking at the videos in anxiety and anger; Just the opposite of why I'm following.
you.
So continue your good work with your farm. Share the every day life of 😺😽😼🦴🌾🌷🌻☘️❄️🌅🐺🐍🦬🐂🐔🐓🐤🐥🦤🦆🐝🍙🍘🥇💵🧮🧾⚒️🪚
If you are younger than 98 years old and know about the internet, then you know what clickbait is. If she is using the titles as stand alone arguments then she really just wants to be angry. It's like fighting about the flashy cover of a book.
You've 100% taken the high ground in this situation. The breeders behaviour is honestly abhorrent. Absolutely no tact in this situation
I'm definitely annoyed at her lack of taking any personal accountability when it comes to addressing the hernias but it is what it is. Abby is loved and well taken care of and deep down she knows it. The article felt too much like gaslighting for me.
Cali, Cali, Cali....😅
the fact that the breeder wrote THAT MUCH about how they ‘definitely aren’t a bad breeder’, by saying different things while lying, shows how insecure they are, and the allegations that the breeder is bad, are probably true. normal people don’t just write over 10,000 words about true statements about them. gold shaw farm wasn’t even being rude, he was just stating what his experience was like with that breeder
most people dont have someone with 3/4 of a million subscribers criticising them publicly on their extremely large platform to a receptive base
@@Tidalx morgan said not to go and harass or send death threats to the breeder, and whatever people do, is not in morgan’s control. morgan was very nice and considerate to the breeder, and if the breeder doesn’t recognize his kindness and keeps telling lies about him, i think the breeder is not a very good person to begin with.
@@jacobharding5843 anyone with a big media presence should know that even if they say 100 times to not interact with someone they criticise, their fans will still do it. morgan is well aware of this because it has happened time and again. he has a big platform and likes to use it, when he should really deal with a lot of these kinds of situations in a more discrete manner. yes a lot of the time the people he is interacting with are not particularly nice people but he should know better by now when dealing with them.
@@Tidalx And she was using him as an advert for her dogs, until he started questioning the viability of breeding her dog, so now her free ad is back firing and she's freaking out about it.
@@Tidalx if he stayed quiet, more people would probably look at the breeder well, and might even buy a dog from them. and then they might have the same problems as morgan did, as morgan sated in this video why he didn’t stay quiet about it
Additional thought: The breeder is also requesting on her blogs for viewers to unsub you and contact your sponsor(s). This is NOT OK. I hope she sees this comment and "takes the high road" and just moves on. She seems to be quite "salty" Does she strive for 100% satisfaction in customer satisfaction? Yes, I'm sure she does. Any business would. Gold Shaw farm does as well. Clearly not the case here and she needs to move on and put her efforts towards the puppies she is rearing now and those in the future. Dog breeders and potential customers need to be very thorough prior to engaging in a transaction of selling and buying a puppy. Abby seems to be in a loving home, being continually trained to execute the job she is bread to fulfill and she receives the care and attention she deserves as she continues to mature. We all love Abby!
She sounds like a well trained leftist.
@@evancombs5159 No dear, she's a Karen.
To get away from the drama for a minute
Can I just say how much I love the names you give your animals! It’s unique, it shows you love them, and it shows they all matter to you. 💕💕💕💕💕
'Socialized around (poultry)' socialized how? Was she just sitting behind a fence watching geese, chickens and ducks exited to chase them? Or Was she already chasing these animals? That word could mean different things. Sure a child could be 'socialized' but they could also be biting and hitting other kids. Love your videos Morgan and watching you learn and grow as the years have gone by.
Abby's energy is higher than Toby's. She's an in your face dog. I'm not saying she is not cute and sweet. She's a friendly dog. But she is a wild child running and playing. Hope you can succeed in the end. I had many dogs in my. Ife but my last mini schnauzer was so hard to train. She was very dominant and very stubborn. Loving and sweet, to be sure, but I train all my dogs not to bark (I live in an apartment and have done all my life,) to walk at heel off lead and to sit, stay, down and come very quickly. It took me 5 years to get her to walk at heel off leed no matter how she was tempted by other dogs or entrancing smells. I won but two times daily training sessions for 5 years were exhausting. But I got 6 more years with her of wonderful and absolutely dependable adorableness in the end. Good luck.
Doesn't really matter either way. Whatever she was doing then becomes pretty inconsequential when she's killed a chicken on Morgans farm. At that point it's his responsibility to do something about it before the bodies pile up. His solution was a large pen until she could be trusted. Really not sure what more you want unless you just don't value the lives of the birds at all, in which case you've lost any moral high horse.
@@Nagassh why are you being somewhat aggressive to this commenter? They are talking about when the breeder said they socialized the dog to poultry. That could mean the dog watched from a fence wanting to chase and let that anxious energy build up or the breeder may have thought it was cute when the pup chased the birds and didn’t correct the Behavior. Has nothing to do with Morgan at all
My question: why is this breeder acting as if Abby is still their dog???
Breeders sometimes have clauses in their contracts (usually not really enforceable) about right of first refusal, where they expect the buyer to offer for buy-back or return the puppy to the seller first if they intend to re-home. That might explain why they still perceive her as "their dog" de facto even though Morgan has no intention of returning her.
I don't know what this "breeder" contract says, but a lot of breeder contracts say that... If you move & don't tell them, they can take the dog... If you don't send them updates every month for the 1st year (or for life), they can take the dog... If you give the dog to someone & don't get their permission, they can take the dog... If you can no longer care for the dog (even 10 years later) and you give the dog to a shelter & they find out, they can sue you... If you breed the dog without their permission, they can take the dog
@@kaylo9600 wtf usa
@@kaylo9600 that sounds like renting not purchasing …
@@kaylo9600 Wow, that is like renting a dog, with a monthly subscription. Who would even agree to such terms? Ludacris.
She sells dogs. That means she invites public opinion!
Plus, she can't take the blame because Morgan has failed to train her properly, a dog is only as good as it's owners training!
A puppy is a blank canvas, and she is locked up in a cage most of the time.
She also knows how to limit breeder competition in her industry, apparently.
@@DogSerious That's sarcasm, right?
Edit to add: My sarcasm detector is off today.
@@Starannify she doesn’t breed dogs and sell them for money? That is the definition of a business.
@@DogSerious When you have a dog with a strong ProDrive training only work so far. I’ve had dogs for strong pro drives and you can never entirely trust them around some species. I have a dog with Staffordshire bull terrier in her and she had a strong PreY and I’ll never let her off the lead around sheep. A dog like Abby is meant to be a generalist livestock guardian dog in terms of use around different types, they’ve been used all over the world with Alrighty of livestock. She’s just not suited to being around poultry. Plus the genetic issue as well means that having her spayed was the best thing for her. Also it will help her calm down a bit. Which will hopefully speed up her maturation in her temperament. She’s clearly going to be a great cattle dog.
GOLD SHAW FARM CAME WITH THE RECEIPTS 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I absolutely appreciate and respect your constant transparency & accountability.
Love this channel
AND I keep saying as your cattle herd grows I truly believe that Abby is going to be the greatest asset that you have working with them.
I agree with you. Abby's calling might be as a drover with the cattle. Sometimes with a dog you have to work within the dogs ability.
How Toby doesn't kill the geese during mating season is a miracle. Abby may just not have that natural calm temperament for that same work.
Totally agree with you.
My first apartment was 515sq ft., and I had to work TWO jobs to keep it. Abby's got almost a bedroom more than I had, free housekeeping, free healthcare, free grooming, and daily food delivery, but she's barely good at her ONE job. She is certainly very mistreated, it's borderline criminal!
?
@@jonathanfalix2875 It's called sarcasm bromiester. Abby's not good at her job of being a livestock guardian dog (yet), but has all the perks of a full-time seasoned employee. The breeder's accusation of him mistreating Abby is ridiculous.
The Breeder needs to put her Big Girl Panties on, and learn to take some criticism.
That appeals to my British sense of humour 😁
I love how you mention that the breeder has been traumatized by all this. Right or wrong, being attacked by the internet en mass can really mess with you. People need to recognize that your battles are yours to fight (unless you ask), and trying to be helpful (or vengeful) can easily make things worse. It would be much easier for you to deal with someone who isn't trying to defend themselves against a horde.
You come off very reasonable, and teach a good lesson that hopefully makes the world better for it, thanks Morgan.
I think people with a large platform should have more care in their criticisms, especially when knowing how their fan base has reacted before. It doesn’t help matters that he uses negatively fashioned icons around the topic to draw in views, click bait. Those who make snap judgements and see the pictures and love his channel could turn around in “justice warrior” mode to defend him, and those he takes issue with are left feeling vilified with those headers as being the problem. Not that they aren’t, it’s just escalating matters. He is sensationalizing his problems with others because it is profitable for his channel. It’s troubling. I think he could be airing out matters in a better way that doesn’t fuel the fires.
What surprised (and impressed) me was that he said this was frustrating to him, but traumatizing to her. Morgan didn't downplay the impact this is having on the breeder; instead, he put her struggle above his own. He claims he has empathy for her, and that supports it.
@@iRunavala I hope he adjusts how he presents his content knowing now where it can impact other people’s lives, if it truly matters to him. He got sensationalist about it with his “headlines”, so to start from that is already getting people worked up. I mean… words like FAILURE and BAD DOG stamped right next to the dog’s head is rather dramatic. He’s setting the tone here. As the one orchestrating the content his messages need to be clear from the start. He may be turning his frustrations into fruit via ad revenue but he is willfully using the most dramatic means to do so and the fallout is stronger feelings all around.
@@Auchtahelweit This is how I feel about it, too. The videos about Abby have been presented in a deliberately clickbaity manner, and as you said, it sets the tone for the discourse around the dog. While it sounds like this breeder would have been set off into drama-land no matter what, that doesn't mean that the titles and thumbnails had NO impact.
@@Auchtahelweit - I agree. He's still young and maturing, probably both of them are. In my opinion they should have kept their differences between themselves (yes, older people act like that too, but they shouldn't, and should be examples to the younger generations). I slowed the video down to see some of what the lady wrote in her blog, and saw things that he did not address. There are always two sides to a story. Yes, I noticed the silly labels stamped next to the dog's head, yet he complained about the woman using quotations around things she'd said (insulting her intelligence because she doesn't know how to use proper grammar). This whole this is embarrassing.
@Runavala - He may have SOME empathy for her, but I didn't see much.
Thanks for explaining everything. I personally am fairly new to your channel, but I could tell in EVERY video you put out, that you love those dogs and have NO intention of giving Abby up.
Just like with people, dogs are all individuals and you can never know exactly what you're getting. Seems you're taking the good with the bad and keeping it real, which is awesome.
Boom!!
What you said must have really hit home to this breeder. She’s in full desperation mode because she knows she can’t dispute the facts. She was hoping to profit from the publicity you’d give her, but instead she’s been exposed.
Summary:
Farmer man: *makes reasonable complaints*
Breeder on her blog: HES ABUSING HIS DOG, HES SLANDERING ME, HES STUPID BLEH BLEH BLEH
So.... Karen?
I so appreciate your ability to sort and suss the issues with compassion, humor, and intelligence. We,as the audience, are exposed to so many broken people and useless content! I am 72 and live vicariously watching you fulfill a dream a never able to pursue. Thank you and bless you for your honesty, transparency, kind heart, and sensitive nature. I love watching your videos with a glass of wine in the still of the evening. I go to bed happy.
She's not a responsible breeder, no matter how many times SHE says she is. "Nuff said.
Amen to that!
It's always the irresponsible ones that are all mouth, frankly. There was a similar breeder in the Akita world a few years ago that over-bred his dogs and constantly sent out puppies with genetic issues. Got horrendously mad at me when I cancelled my appointment to see his facility and dogs. Keep in mind I made no mention of coming up to buy a dog. I wanted to meet them, yes, but I was honest and upfront that I was also looking at several breeders simultaneously. It was pretty clear from his language that he had already spent the money he assumed I was going to be paying for a puppy I never agreed to buy. And when I cancelled he lost his shit on me and blocked me. Thankfully most people are aware the man is a piece of work now and hopefully the same notoriety will hit Abby's breeder.
Ohhh, Morgan should ask for videos on prior dogs being BOUGHT threw her and what we're there out comes!! Seriously.
Your empathy toward the breeder is much more than what I feel like you got in return, but you're right, you shouldn't have probably gotten rolled up in the drama. You didn't know what effect your actions would have quite yet, but it's awesome to see how well you take responsibility. You provided a strong argument and evidence. Abby is a good puppy, very sweet. And none of the allegations against you make sense! Like, a prisoner? It's not like you have her in a crate or something, she's able to be around the farm to desensitize and cut down on the prey drive, she has plenty of time out to run around etc, and she's well fed and provided for. She would act ENTIRELY different if you were in any way an abusive owner or she felt like a prisoner. Some dogs who are bought (from breeders of working dogs) who do not end up being working dogs, are only taken for one or two walks a day! She has so much freedom and she is so happy, it's clear to see. You're doing a great job so far imo. Keep on doing what you're doing!
The click bait tho..... :P
Marlena, I was going to mention the clickbait-iness of some of the video titles, too. From a marketing standpoint (fellow marketer here), the titles of the videos are designed to be eye catching and to draw people in, asking themselves, “oh no, is he getting rid of Abby?” And I totally get it. But I imagine that may not be obvious to other people.
No two dogs, or people, or even plants are alike. I have no experience with the Maremma breed at all, but I have wondered if maybe Toby is the exception, and not the rule. Or really he’s the perfect first child that convinces parents to have a second child, and the second child doesn’t sleep, gets into everything, etc. (I got the kid that doesn’t sleep and gets into everything as my first (and only) child. 😂
100% seems like the breeder is really butthurt about video titles that are clearly exaggerated to grab attention. But I haven't watched every single one. 🤷♀️
Some people cant take Criticism. Im always honest, if someone shows me something i tell them the truth. A lot of the time it hurts there feelings. But they still ask me, and they keep asking me. People might not like the honesty at first, but they will sit on what you say and sooner or later accept you are right.
Yes, my feeling was, that Morgan has put his training of Abby out for all to see, and if she had a problem with any of it, why didn't she contact him and make some suggestions?
@@bonnieharris8855 She did. She suggested placing her with a cow. If you read about introducing LGD this is a suggestion often made.
You definitely had to be honest because quite frankly upon seeing your initial videos praising this breeder, I started making plans [and even contacted her] to get a puppy for my poultry farming friend here in Ohio.
(Dog Show Exhibitor and Enthusiast here)
You did the 100% Correct thing, spaying her. Her temperament for 1 isn't 100% great for 1 (chasing birds) and number 2 is yes you do not want her to pass the hernia down to puppies, as well as hernias could create complications in birth as well.
I applaud you for doing the right and reputable thing!
I'm not breeding my Pembroke for a reason as well as there's 2 things that I don't want to pass down to puppy's, he's staying intact but I don't have any females who are intact in my home.
Thanks for Being a Reputable person and that breeder is definitely BYB and trying to cover up her mistakes of breeding dogs who have hernias and who do not have the correct temperament to be a Flock Guardian dog.
She not only chase but has killed a chicken before too.
Hasn't she killed two birds?
If you’re not breeding why not use birth control? They have it for male dogs too.
Please be aware the incidents of testicular & prostrate cancer is extremely high for dogs that are not neutered. I tried to tell my sister's best friend to get her beautiful boxer neutered and she refused to do it. At 7 years old he got a very aggressive form of it and was dead in 7 months regardless of that the owner did to save him. Hard lesson there that didn't have to happen!!
@@PapillonOne There's more risks associated with Nueter than not, I will only de sex my dogs if its medically necessary otherwise they keep their needed hormones.
You are allowed to be disappointed. Disappointed that you trusted a second-rate breeder, disappointed that you are only human and cannot control outcomes, and yes, disappointed that ultimately you chose Abby who cannot fulfill the role as you originally expected. It doesn't make you a bad person, but rather gives you lots of opportunities to grow. And that is why you have a channel and a platform and an audience. You don't need to feel guilty or a need to defend how it all makes you feel. You're doing a good job. And being responsible. That's all you can do.
My experience with my LGD's is that females take longer. They keep that puppy energy for longer. My males are amazing. I have a 13 week old male puppy right now and he is just easy. My 4 year old male has always been easy. I would say at 2 years you will see a change. Or, birds just aren't her thing. I have dogs that will never stop playing with my birds...unfortunately, it doesn't end well for the bird. Abby is a great dog, and you're doing the best you can to help her.
I used to watch your videos all the time. Back then, your barn kitty just had surgery from being hit by the car. Your farm has grown SO much since then! Watching now, I’ve realized I’ve missed watching your RUclips videos. I just watched one of your videos about your “haters.” I just gotta say: Don’t ever let anyone dull your shine! You’re an amazing RUclipsr and Homesteader. Everyone has got at least 1. 🤷🏾♀️😊
I’m lovin Miss Abby.. she’s a beauty! ❤
I'm going to be honest I'm so glad that you are handling this so well...but are also willing to see you can accept the clickbaity titles and thumbnails are starting to cause problems. The wording and thumbnail of the last video really rubbed me wrong and I skipped it due to its nature of looking like Toby died
This, I really hope it’s something he’s going to take on board
Absolutely was thinking this very thing as I came across your comment. By making clickbait titles he is putting specific questions into people’s minds and is expecting people to follow through and listen to everything to hear the opposite. I’ve been increasingly put off with how he uses titles and images meant to provoke negative emotions and would rather check out the quick TikTok’s than feel baited by the drama.
Yeah I thought so too
Are you talking about the 'Saying Goodbye Without Regrets' video? If so, what on earth made you think he was alluding to Toby dying? Toby isn't even in the thumbnail. I know Morgan can be a little fake and cheesy, especially around sponsorships, and clickbaity titles is part of the RUclips game(annoying, I agree), but this comment went a little too far. I mean, seriously. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about this channel knows that if Toby-dog died, Morgan would be a sobbing mess and the title/thumbnail would convey this. Morgan cries at the IDEA of something happening to his pets, so expect a broken-hearted flood if any of them actually die.
@@Maeda_Miakoda_Gaming For me, the issue was that it's so clearly NOT a video about Toby dying but the thumbnail (which was different before) and the title is intended to invoke a "oh no!" reaction to lead someone to click on the video. Literally clickbait to the T. I know that clickbaity titles are part of the RUclips "game", that doesn't stop me from being annoyed when people do this, and especially the more egregious cases like the one mentioned above. I will actively try to NOT click on videos even when they are from my favourite content creators when they are super clickbaity because principles. And clearly i'm not alone in feeling this, especially when it causes issues with sensitive people (and seemingly unhinged drama queens) like the breeder. It's just easily avoided if you just change the title and thumbnails to be less "dramatic".
Morgan, my partner and I have been watching your channel for over a year now and I love your everyday farm videos but when the tea is spilt it's absolutely scolding.
You are nothing but kind to all your animals and I can tell you love Abby a lot. Ultimately what it boils down to is that this lady runs a business, delivered a poor product and now rather than rectifying the situation or at the very least staying quiet about it, she would rather wage a keyboard war from the other side of the country. You were rightfully critical, but you were respectful about it and never gave any real identifiers about this woman but still she felt the need to out herself and how demonstrate how poorly she conducts herself in regards to her business.
I think you did right by Abby girl by getting her spayed. It's ultimately the most responsible decision for you and your farm. Great work as always :)
I’m just gonna say this up front, in this day and age you have to be aware that owning a business alone can cause you problems. For the lady who sold you Abby it doesn’t mean she’s a bad person or her dogs are bad quality if anything, your experience is entirely valid! We need to keep our animal breeders in check to make sure we’re not just pumping out poor pups that have a mid-low quality of life because their parents were owned by some unethical greedy people. And the fact that she started off pretending to want the best but ultimately screwing you by lying.
Eh, I feel like her response to his valid criticisms makes her a bad person, or at least a very heavily flawed one. She needs to take some serious genuflection time.
I will say that genetics aren't stable: Just because the dogs you have are both double-dominant, doesn't mean you'll get a double-dominant trait in a dog simply because genetic mutations exist. As a dog breeder it's her responsibility to DNA test the dogs, to give certainty, or at least be willing to pay for a test/any health concerns that arise from a genetic issue that was not relayed to the new owner of the dog. I will say that this does not make her a bad person or her dogs bad dogs, but that she has both unethical breeding practices, and unethical business practices.
People dont pay $3,000 for a dog to expect to have to pay for surgeries shortly after getting the animal.
She knew that not only did Abby have a hernia issue.
Other litter mates do as well.
Pups have a warranty of health
He was given the choice between Abby and 4 other females without hernias. He was made aware of it prior to purchasing her and still chose her. That isn't on the breeder.
@@bccc6745
The breeder is a scammer.
"They already fell in Love"
What the heck?
Breeders these days are selling still in utero
Animals are like humans; they are not perfect. And yes, you can end up paying after getting the animal. They key is communication with the breeder. When we researched getting a second dachshund, we made sure not to go to an Amish puppy mill, and found a reputable breeder in PA. He communicated to us that our selection had an umbilical hernia, and he allowed a refund or another selection, if we wanted. Our vet confirmed that hernias are common, and that it could be corrected. When we took him home, he ended up having kennel cough. We communicated this to the vet (it is also common), and he paid us $150 for the vet treatment and medication. Our puppy turned out fine and is a healthy and happy 2-1/2 yr old purebred dachshund, and bonded to our older dachshund, who didn't get kennel cough as she had her shots.
I've also rescued animals and had to treat them. I took home a cat years ago, and it ended up having worms. Same thing ... communication, treatment, good health result.
Point being ... umbilical hernias are very common, and correctable (with very few cases that are severe).
@@rarelibra
Got my little hound at the shelter $250 fixed shots everything.
No other BS issues just some puppy acne
@@stephaniehowe0973 someone had to let their dogs breed and then not be able to home the puppies in order for that shelter to exist though?
I don't have this breed, but let's be clear - high spirited dogs do take longer to train. Seems you are doing a good job. And no, working breeds w genetic defects should be regulated to "pet price" and not bred.
He isnt a dog trainer.
@@SarahsPets2004 okay? Not everyone is but he's already trained one great dog, has mentors and coaches, and is doing a lot more than people who don't even train their dogs.
Here's the thing that might surprise you but anyone can learn how to train a dog.
It's her genetics, she's not cut out for livestock work like Toby is. Genetics matter completely, the breeder was a backyard breeder.
@@bbycherub2420 Abby was purchased from one of the top Maremma breeders in the US, who goes above & beyond in her health testing of any dogs she breeds, adhering to a specific code of ethics to be rated as such. She breeds extremely high quality Maremma LGDs from champion bloodlines.
This bashing of her is truly appalling.
@@caseymarion2494 Then it's going to be really interesting when Abby's genetic testing gets done to see if this is actually true or not.
Abby's breeder SHOULDN'T BE ROASTING ANYONE. She sold you an expensive purebred dog that had a hernia and needed surgery. She's the problem, she lied about Abby being a good candidate for poultry protection. She's the one who has issues with Morgan and his thumbnails, but it's NONE of her business
But the breeder told him about the hernia and admitted it may be genetic. Why would he go through with buying Abby when he was aware of the risks? I don’t want to be beat up here but it’s an honest question.
@@rebeccabrown5014 He was not as educated on breeder practices or genetic medical issues with dogs. His experience with obtaining Toby turned out fantastic so he reasonably assumed this breeder would be similar. The breeder as far as he could tell, was reputable, was up front about any issues but repeatedly said the hernia wasn't a big deal so he trusted her word that it was fine. It wasn't until later that he got veterinarian and other breeder advice on whether it's a big deal or not that he realized it was such a major issue after all.
@@rebeccabrown5014 no the breeder said that hernia is not a big deal
It’s actually impossible to reason with an unreasonable mind. I have a family member like that. You on the other hand rock!
Morgan, thank you for talking about working with Abbie. I have trained 4 (different breeds) dogs of my own, each dog I had to tweek as each dog has its own learning curve. You are doing, in my opinion, an excellent job with Abby, and she shows it! Love your farm!
I'm not saying all breeders are like the one, but in my opinion as well it's unethical. Some people wouldn't even know about it being genetic. I'm glad you are informing everyone! I used to breed rabbits and it is a hard decision to make.
Some breeders can be crazy. My dad got a pure bred german shepard from a show dog line and had tons of issues. The dog is sweet but I'd bet my bottom dollar she's inbred since she has temperament problems (acts like she has ADHD, snaps at other dogs when they're playing, stuff like that) and tons of health issues. They also put in their contract that he had ro prepay for the dog before it was born and that he was in line for a dog, if the mother didnt make enough puppies though he could flat not get a puppy and if the puppy died for any reason after birth he wouldnt get a puppy or his money back. They also charge extra for "breeding rights" and mentioned something about sueing him if he bred her without paying for the breeding rights, which is kind of insane.
@@arthas640 it’s ethical for breeders to charge breeding rights/make you sign an agreement to neuter/not breed the animal. It’s to prevent their dogs and all offspring stemming from them from ending up in shelters and adding onto overpopulation problems. Ethical breeders treasure their lines and do everything they can to prevent the selling of their offspring from causing anymore harm. I’d be concerned if a breeder didn’t care if the puppy they were selling is bred.
@@arthas640 and deposits before the dog is born is completely normal and goes into any health problems/issues the mother might go through during birth.
@@arthas640 Deposits before a dog is born is completely normal, not relevant but:
That's the same with getting a bird from a reliable breeder, I had to pay $400 in AUD (Australian dollars) to get my conure and it's most likely the same with cats, chickens and other animals.
@@Sirocri the deposit is understandable, but being non refundable seems crazy to me. It was kind of vague whether or not if the mother had too few pups (if they sold more then she gave birth to) if hed get a puppy from another litter, if hed get a refund, or if they'd keep the money. If the puppy died in their care for any reason it still counted and my dad wouldn't get a puppy or his money.
I forgot to mention but she had umbilical hernia too at birth too and ended up with other problems. I dont remember the name of the condition but she ended up needing a hysterectomy due to some birth defects that caused a ton of infections, the vet said both were likely genetic. She ended up being a runt too, about 70-75lb when the breeder said her whole line were larger german shepards, mostly over 100lb. Despite supposedly being from a show dog line some people told my dad his dog has a number of things that makes her "not breed standard" which along with the health problems and temperament issues makes me think it was a puppy mill since she seemed inbred on top of everything else.
Also, as someone who hopes to acquire livestock guardian dogs of my own at some point (probably Kangals), this journey has been very eye-opening.
My sister got a Kengal, super great dog
@@Apcideful Kangal .
I don't necessarily agree with Morgan on everything on this one, but as an LGD owner to a prospective one, my advise would be to visit the breeder, and visit both the sire and dam if possible to evaluate if their temperament is what you're looking for and ask lots of questions. Ask why the breeder is breeding this pair of dogs together and what their goals with their genetic line/breeding are. Different breeds and lines within those breeds may have different guarding styles (stays close with stock at all times vs. frequent perimeter checks), friendliness to unknown humans, discernment in their barking, propensity for roaming etc. Health testing (hips, genetics etc.) isn't strictly mandatory with an experienced breeder who is knowledgeable of their lines, but is usually a sign of a breeder that cares and wants to improve the breed. Ideally your breeder should be knowledgeable and be able to pick out the puppy that will best fit your situation, but come armed with what traits you want to look for as well and be prepared to walk away/wait for another litter if there isn't a puppy that will be a perfect fit. Look for a puppy that doesn't make direct eye contact with stock. If you're looking for more of a 'farm dog'/porch LGD than a true LGD (accompanies you on chores, stays near you/the house, will investigate potential threats as they arise, greets human visitors; better for smaller acreage) pick one that is friendly and comes up to you without prompting. A true LGD (stays with stock at all times and proactively defends;better for larger acreage) you'd want one that isn't the first puppy to get in your face, but happily accepts loving if you come up to it. And lastly, don't let yourself be duped by the people telling you you have to limit your contact with your dog and lock them up with stock at all times, otherwise your dog may not 'bond' with livestock. LGDs worked side by side with their old world shepherds, and your relationship with your dog needs to be solid before you can expect it to want to protect what is yours. They're not machines, they're a part of your family, and important, trusted employees on your farm. Treat them with love and respect and they will return it 100 fold!
I just want to point out that you got Toby a lot younger than Abby. I really think that made a difference in his association with birds. When you eventually get another puppy I would get them as young as possible. I personally believe that the early exposure is really important and it's at least partially why Toby is so good with them.
Obviously there's a million factors that make a difference, I just think that's one of them.
That's what I was thinking too. When he got her I was surprised she was much older than he was when he came to the farm. There are always two sides to a story, too.
The breeder stated she was socialized with birds before she was bought on.
He had Abby on the good faith that the breeder that he bought her from had trained and acclimatised the puppy with fowls and birds prior to getting her.
The fault is on the breeder for lying to Morgan on this.
@@milkyshakes and as we can see, not with white chickens for some reason. Or that "socialization" included "playing" with chickens until they're dead.
We love your videos. As a native Californian, I can say (as an expert on them), she's from California and has the attitude of those type of people.
You addressed her allegations very well.
Catherine
Thank you
Jimi Hendrix's eyelashes! 😍 The breeder probably just wanted to buy Abby back so she could breed her, which is why she thought it was SO terrible that you spayed her. So glad you didn't send her back. This woman is addicted to drama. Those e-mails and even her own blog posts make her sound unhinged. People like this love attention, even negative attention, which explains her belief that all the other breeders are conspiring against her. So be prepared for a MAJOR backlash to this video.
Yea one of the biggest parts that is confusing about all of this is that she is claiming that Gold Shaw Farm had no rights to breed Abby, yet she is also shaming him for spaying her and talking about she is missing out on finding her doggy "prince" and other super weird stuff in her blog posts. It's either one of the other, lady.
@@strongdawg A prince? Oh lordy I didn't even see that. What a fruit cake.
@@Libbathegreat yea she sounds a little unstable or just doesn't know how to internet, starting to kind of feel bad for her. The quote was "The beautiful dog that Abby's breeder had originally planned to keep for herself will never have puppies. Which is too bad, because if Abby's owner had come to her breeder they probably could have worked something out. Maybe he could have even found a new prince for Abby to marry and have puppies." ...yikes.
@@strongdawg Oh boy. Sounds like for her, Abby has ceased to have value because no one can make money out of her anymore by forcing her to churn out pups. So disturbing. Lady Abbington has a way better life on GSF than any that breeder would offer her.
@@strongdawg the fact that she says "for Abby to marry" leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Morgan, after this video, I can definitely say that your clickbait titles and thumbnails aren't giving you the best press on this matter. I think changing these and preserving the videos as is would show good faith, and would fit your brand a lot more... From a distance, just looking at your channel from a glance? It's not reflective of your true content. You seem *mean* at surface level, even though your videos and the content within them are super wholesome. I've been watching for years, and I will admit I'm not a fan of your clickbait stuff.
I think you make a fair point.
@@GoldShawFarm Yeah, the clickbaity titles really rub the wrong way, even though the videos themselves are great.
Very well put, also love the content and what Morgan is doing, but sometimes the dramatic thumbnails put me off a bit.
That's the game creators have to play. Morgan wouldn't have near the following he does have if he didn't cater to the algorithm. I see his thumbnails as more of a satirical homage to the normal clickbaity thumbnails. If you've watched more than thirty minutes of the Gold shaw channel you should already know that the thumbnails aren't exactly accurate representations of the content in the videos. As a matter of fact, the thumbnails or more often than not the opposite representation of the actual content in the videos. He's essentially taking a mirror and holding it up to youtube and showing us all what it's like to have to play their algorithmically generated game.
Essentially, we have no real right to judge unless we also have extensive experience playing the youtube game. I'd be curious to find out the opinion on this topic from other youtubers and hear their take. My guess is they would understand and be more lenient about morgans use of 'clickbaity thumbnails' because essentially every big channel does it.
@@GoldShawFarm I don't even read the thumbnails... I just get the notification that Toby-Dog has a new video! 😁
morgan, i’m glad abby has a home with you. i know many people would take one look at abbys less-than-ideal behavior and immediately jump at the offer to return her or resell her. your love and patience with abby are more than any dog could ask for. she has a wonderful life!! i love to see that you are willing to work with her even though she’s not quite what you were expecting. this breeder is only looking for trouble. don’t let it get you down.
(ps: although her blog post is mostly silly, her talks of “repossessioin [sic] of the dog”, bragging about taking legal action against others for allegedly bullying her in her facebook posts, and asking her blog readers to “implore him to treat Abby better and to either seek professional help in training her or send her home” (from the blog post titled “what abbys owner does that i will never do”) do make me a little wary. i would be cautious and make sure there’s nothing in the contract that she might be able to twist and use against you if she ever sought that route.)
I second this and also push for him to lawyer up jic she tries something. Idk if her case would hold any weight in court but better to be safe than sorry.
You are too nice Morgan. The breeder is not making a good name for herself. I would never select a breeder that attacks their past clients like that on their site. You are being way too kind here. You are an amazing soul.
Hello from Scotland, Morgan. I think Abby's training & development especially how she acts around the birds is going to be a long game for you. It's clear that she has bundles of energy and it might be the case that it will just take longer for her temperament to change & to become more similar to Toby Dog. Maybe in the future, once you expand to have more cows & some pigs like you mentioned recently, then Abby might be better suited to working with those animals rather than the birds.
That isn't the idea. Guardian dogs free range and ward off any preditors. Birds are all locked in at night. On a homestead it is open so it would be impossible to segregate the dog(s) to certain area's.
We had a Great Pyrenees, different breed, though similar and no livestock, but our experience with her was it took her a good TWO full years to settle down to correct her misbehaviors. It could be a gender thing, or a coincidence. but after about two she was a much better dog.
Morgan, I've been on both sides of the fence. Bought and been stung. And sold with being stung. I sold since1982 under contract
I never hesitated to take back a pup. And I had several I tried to return (no contract but verbal) and though they were part of of family I had them spayed. I registered pups before they left. My 1st breed was dobermans and I sold WITH ears trimmed/ tails docked on contract. And basically the purchase price covered the ear trims. My Whippets sold on same contract. No longer breeding. At on time I had 5 generations of Dobes on the property, all from well known, great old lineage. Same with the whippets. As I have gotten older (67 almost) my ranks have thinned...one lone whippet of 13 yrs and two retired Military Working dogs (One GSD and one Mal). My advice is if at an impass with the breeder..cut you losses and move on. Love Abby and hope she finds her job. Best to you.
@@sandraringener4968 Totally agree. I do not have LGDs, but I have a large working breed that takes years to mature. That adolescent phase is long and there can be a lot of ups and downs. Even 20+ yrs into my breed, I have a current 2 yr old dog that has challenged me training wise and I have had to go back to the drawing board, ask for help, refocus on some things, and work on getting him back on track (and we are).
Not in this case, but there are a lot of people getting breeds they do not understand and then expecting them to magically be perfect. We have neighbors with LGDs as pets, yet yell at them for barking at me while I'm walking my dogs on the road. They are supposed to warn off strangers. They aren't doing anything wrong. They aren't charging the fence, they aren't acting aggressively, it's not excessive. They are just standing in their yard barking at me saying, "hey, you aren't allowed here".
@@pamelaremme38 Considering Morgan has said that he plans to open up the perma-culture orchard as he gets more cows & possibly pigs as well then I can't see why he couldn't segregate the dogs especially considering the area where he houses the birds is IMO small enough for Toby to manage on his own. Basically, as Morgan's farm grows, he'll either need more dogs or the dogs will have to cover a wider area.
Abby reminds me a lot of my Bernese mountain dog when he was her age. He was hyper, un-trustable on his own, and simply just a handful for me and my family. My father even told me he was thinking about getting rid of him. But as he aged and matured he calmed down and is now the most well behaved dog ever! He was bred to protect cattle similar to Abby and Toby and looks like them except for his colour. He is a great watch dog and always keeps trespassing fishermen and dogs off our fields. What I’m trying to say is with time, Abby will turn out to be a great dog that will be gentle as well just like my dog. Don’t give up man
Exactly.
No shit Sherlock
I think way more important is the consistent and clear training, environment, and how you interact with the dog
Upstate Canine Academy on RUclips is one way to do it right, a default way
I’ve met only one person who had a truly good relationship with their dog; a hunter and his golden retriever. Only used a leash when required
Honestly judging based on how Abby loves being in the pasture and absolutely adores your cattle, she honestly would be a great cattle dog! Wouldn't be so bad if you had a LGD for both types of livestock on your farm 😊 who knows, she might stop the calf from running away haha.
Umbilical hernias are not a genetic issue, nor are they a health concern to any breeder with any real experience (15 years minimum breeding dogs).
Human beings have them too, they're called outie belly buttons. It's basically a late closure of the umbilical opening. It's extremely common in all mammals with umbilical cords (non marsupials). Saying that a dog shouldn't be bred because it has an umbilical hernia is like telling people that they shouldn't have children because they have an outie belly button.
The veterinary sciences like to demonize common issues so that they can exploit people financially by trying to make it seem like it's something worse than it is. Like for example they call the common cold in dogs kennel cough, even though the true definition of kennel cough is brucellosis, which is extremely dangerous.
They do that so that they can get you to spend a bunch of money on antibiotics and potential x-rays to check for pneumonia when the reality is your dog will be over it in a week maybe two with no treatment for 90% of cases without complications.
There are different kinds of hernias that are genetic and are dangerous, but they are not associated with umbilical hernias. People without a lot of experience with breeding dogs often try to make a big deal out of it but it's a red Herring.
Another huge issue in the veterinary sciences and the breeding Community is speculation is often considered truth and vets have no problem making completely false assumptions about genetics and breeding all the time.
I tell people all the time do not believe what you're told! Look up studies, or ask for sources for information that they're giving you. The reality is that most of what is told is misinformation that is repeated over and over again and taken as fact. Especially by veterinarians, they're the worst people to ask about anything related to genetics in regards to dog breeding. They are not geneticists and they are not breeders. They do not have the experience or the knowledge to comment on genetics or breeding. Yet that will not stop them from doing so on a regular basis.
Be very careful of young vets because they're indoctrinated with a bunch of propaganda in colleges that is anti-breeder.
Talking to a lot of people is a great start, but if you didn't follow up and ask for sources for that information then it doesn't mean anything. If you become a breeder you will very quickly find that out what little information is actually known about dog breeding in regards to genetics and health conditions. It's an area where not a lot of money has been put into studying these things. It's a job filled with old wives tales and speculation. Worst of all from the veterinary sciences that demonize breeders and like to use any opportunity they can to say a dog shouldn't be bred.
The only valid reason that dog shouldn't be bred is because she lacks the temperament to do the job that her breed is bred to do.
Came for the animals stayed for the tea.
Look as a viewer & dog owner since 1974 I appreciate & depend on your frank, honest videos of your experiences with all your animals. Please don't turn this into a powder puff story of your life. I've breed 3 liters (total of 5 puppies) in 40 years & I kept them all. I know the hours spent studying genotype & phenotype. I've had much success & all but my littlest one, Cookie, became AKC Champions. But every dog that had inheritable problems was NEVER bred. I bought a puppy bitch with a liver shunt (unknown to me & the breeder) she lived out her life with me & was never bred. The breeder refunded the purchase price. Breeders should know their pedigrees & problems in their lines but no one is perfect, so just be honest & honorable.
Regardless of the drama it’s great to see you stand by Abby. Not all pups are the same. And understanding this a step forward. We have 3 LGD and each one so different from the other. Nothing pisses me off more how people get rid of-their LGDS because they aren’t perfect. When in fact most of the blame can be put on the owner and not the pup. You got Lucky with Toby he is a natural maybe a once in life time dog. Abby just needs love care and guidance. She will find her place and be a great dog.
Wanted to let you know that I support you 100%! Drama is something that I always get uncomfortable with whether it’s second hand or not, so I wanted to let you know I’ll still be watching your videos. One of my favorite channels!
Let me be perfectly clear on this: a LGD should never herd the animals and it should never "play" with the animals. LGDs should be like Toby, seen but perfectly at ease with the animals and the animals perfectly at ease with the dog. Abbey's protective instinct is not fully developed and as a LGD she is a failure. I have no doubt that Abbey is a great dog but she will not do the job of a LGD. By the way, I loved my Komondors.
😗🤌 CHEF'S KISS. People don't agree with this and I don't get why, yes Toby set the bar high for Morgan but he is a NATURALLY INSTINCTIVE LGD. That is exactly what Morgan and MANY people are looking for. Training a dog to be an LGD is made a lot simpler when a dog's natural instincts ALIGN to it. It might take 2+ years for some dogs to be decent LGDs, but they are not NATURAL LGDs. A natural LGD is everything you just said and that's what people are talking about when they talk about their LGD instincts or training related to genetics/working dog breeding. Abby can BE a good LGD but it's going to take a lot of time, and that's NOT what you want when deciding to breed LGDs.
Oh yeah, it's nice that you have a traditional Hungarian dog breed.
@@Night-ud4ew I don't understand your reply. Toby did not set the standard high: he is merely following the standard that all LGDs should follow. Any dog that does not follow this standard, should not be "trained" as an LGD. They will never achieve the minimum standards of an LGD. I'm sure that Abbey will make a great house dog but she should not be allowed near livestock.
@@Greenwren Thank you.
She's a PUPPY. So ridiculous.
Love your videos! You as the consumer have the right to make honest reviews of Abby (as the product)and your experience with the breeder/business. Abby is a working dog not a family pet which means you have valid expectations of her and the breeder. If the breeder doesn’t like it, then she shouldn’t be in business.
I do love that you acknowledged the style of thumbnails that can lead others to think Abby is a disappointment. But again, you have the right to talk about your experience.
Easy suggestion: Don't say "Abby no", is basicaly the same that saying "yes no".
Never use the name of the dog to stop it from a bad behavior; simply say "No/Stop/Whatever", they need a different command from their name to understand it.
BTW she seems such a good dog, hope she is going well
I absolutely agree about not using the name. The name is for recall, not correction, and the recall should always be a positive event.
But I'd add one thing here - instead of No/Stop/Whatever, it's better to give them a command to actually DO something. A recall, or down-out-of-motion gives them an action to perform, and keeps them engaged. No/Stop is usually met with "so, can I chase the cat now? How about now?' lol.
@@BuzzyStreet that's what we do. It makes it much easier for the dog to change track.
My greyhounds have off, leave it, drop it if they have an object they shouldn't or are on something they shouldn't be on (counter surfing).
They have come along, poli poli (slowly in swahili), pretty walking, come, come-touch, wimble-womble (made up for come-touch-down) and "not your business" for anything that is down the way that might be exciting or enticing and lead to a pull, chase, or other reactivity.
We use the name with Come, come touch, and wimble womble.
@@BuzzyStreet That's what I did with my German Shepherd/doberman: She had a bad habit of greeting familiar people by jumping against them. (dangerous with a smaller elderly lady, and children): Instead of "no" I taught her to go get a toy for the visitor. It worked so well, every time she met a person she knew, her first instinct was to frantically look for a toy to show them... And sometimes she improvised with a stick or a leaf, or someone's shoe or sock😆. Relatives found the new greeting funny, and preferable to bruising👍
@@Sienisota that's an awesome idea for a redirection!!
@@BuzzyStreet That's why my pit support dog was taught "hold"=stop, "walk on"=ignore that and don't stop, "forward"=we are still walking, "home"=we are done walking and going back to car/house, "cross! cross! cross!"= crossing roads quickly, "look"=look at me/break line of sight with what distracting, "leave it", "drop it", "to me", and "walk easy"=he can walk faster than me if a joint slips during a walk. H has his specific commands for my health/safety of "get the boys"=get my roommates, "help"=lay close to keep me from falling off the bed/couch while twitching, "do your job"=lay close to keep me warm, "i know"=I hear you barking and know there's someone outside but it's safe. In addition to the standard "come", "sit" "stay/okay (release with specific inflection)" "shake" "lay down" "wait" recall training to the point he doesn't even try to leave if leash drops, and the "anght anght" aka no-no sound.
And he also has "excuse me"= get out of the way which we never taught him, he figured it out from us telling each other excuse me. His command he learned was "move". We make jokes about him having good manners.
One thing I would recommend with training Abbey is to have her on a long leash around the birds. Buy a 30ft long line, cut the handle off so it doesnt get stuck on anything, that way if she starts to chase a bird you can stand on the line and stop her. Otherwise she is rewarding herself with the chase and reinforcing both that behaviour and ignoring you giving her directions
I'd second this suggestion. And I've seen "drag lines" at the local agricultural supply store (a chain store) intended for use when training hunting dogs. They have a couple of different lengths available - and the 20 foot length helped a lot when working with our house dog as a puppy (she could race around, but I could stop her when needed)
I have a puppy in training and she’s always on leash.
Set a shock on her everytime she chases a bird.
I did this with my puppy when I was training him to fetch at the park. Sometimes he'd get distracted and start running off I'd say 'no' and step on his leash. Now when I say 'no' as he starts chasing something, he (usually) stops. You don't even have to buy a long line, just a rope with a carabiner on one end.
My thoughts exactly. Abby is a puppy with a high prey drive and needs to be under control instead of running loose with birds everywhere. Expecting her to mature at the same rate as Toby is unrealistic. But then didn’t Morgan say early on that Toby was the first dog he’s had? Some dogs need more training than others.
You would never breed a working dog that doesn't have the ideal attributes for the job. Be it a guide dog (seeing eye dog) or sheep dog. You only breed the very best workers that just makes sense!
Love your videos! And we can all see how much you love your animals. :)
she's probably an incredible working dog. But she's smart and young and wants stimulus. He just wants a set it and forget it barn dog that barks at things beyond the fence line and doesn't want work inside.