Thank you for this Lvladen. As soon as it was announced, I just had a feeling that a tier set based on expiry was going to be an awful tier that would not be usable in PvP. Honestly I feel kind of glad that I don’t have to stress about grinding tier somehow. I can just get full Mastery/Haste set with Vers conquest set and then be good to go
I appreciate you. Thank you so much. I mean it, this really helps. I made it to 1800 last two weeks of the season (when I started my pvp journey) going from random rotation and blue gear to a fully stacked menace ( I credit my healer for the carry of course) but I genuinely took your knowledge and applied it the best I could and the results were more than rewarding. Again, thank you man 🙏
Thanks for the vid! Really resolved my doubts and guesses here! When I first saw the S3 tier set bonus, my first thought was that it would be burdensome to try hitting all the judgements on expurgation in the pvp environment. At the end of the day, we are palladins, not some tunnel vision zuggers. Of course I'll never say no to some extra damage. But making the damage rotation easy and focus more on landing proper hoj, monitoring the battle situations, and maximize our utility spells are much more valuable to a W. So if the tier set bonus does not give us like 10% damage buff on our major skills or greatly improve our burst window output, it's not worth it if we need to pay extra attention on our rotations. For now, I won't even try to get the 2 set bonus and will go straight to the old talent tree and mast/vers build.
I mean you aren’t considering that full tier will have a lot more haste (and some crit aswell I guess) so of course vers/mast will hit harder, but may not be higher dps overall, with shorter gcd, more procs and crusading strike hp
It also has less versatility, which probably evens it out and reduces damage to boot (which is kind of important for ret considering they're frequently focused).
lol it's so obvious, how can you miss it? Preparing a video like this for a day and not accounting for haste.../facepalm. Time for you to learn about simcraft
Thank you looking into this! When I was testing on PTR, popping everything and seeing WS so low on with FV was very odd, I thought I wasn't looking at it right lol, but I guess I was.
Wait - is it even possible to hit with FV and judgement 100% of the time with the set piece bonus damage? Meaning, wouldn't there times in chaotic situations/split decisions where you choose say FV over reapplying Expurgation (for whatever reason) - if that's the case, wouldn't the 4 piece set bonus be even worse?
As we are here on 12/16 is it still safe to say that I could make a bunch of crafted pieces and buy some WPVP/conquest pieces and just go for higher stats and not even mess with the tier set?
I’ll follow your lead but what talent build in general do you feel is best for full vers mastery? Do you have a gearing plan? Not a big fan of hast is we go for burst or crusade would rather stack vers and mast for biggest 1 shots single target.
Instead of PvP chest might get high pvp level crafted for more stats focused on mastery and vers. Dmg is high think that vers stacking might be worth it especially for more casual PvP or rbg.
In this season what stats should we be prioritizing as ret? Mast/Vers _> Haste then crit? Would love to know the order priority. Thanks for your vids, has helped me get back into wow again
Just asking, why would you select weapon as your first conquest item? I did some simple math and please tell me if I'm wrong. In the second week you'll be accumulating 1350+550 = 1900 conquest and 16 trophies. Assuming we're going full vers/mast build, if you buy the weapon with conquest, you'll end up with a 489 weapon, a 486 shoulder, and a 486 wrist. But if you use trophies to buy weapons, you'll end up with a 486 weapon, a 489 shoulder, a 489 wrist, and a 489 cloak! Use 3 ilvl on the weapn in exchange for 6 ilvl on the gear plus an extra 525 conquest item is not a bad deal imo. Also consider the fact that the trophy weapon has a higher proportion on mastery, which makes it more appealing to me. I would probably settle with the trophy weapon, max out the conquest gear first, and just wait for my luck on the weapon proc from vault.
Hey Lvladen, ive been watching all of your 10.2 videos. I just have a quick question, if I choose not to seek out the set bonus what would be a good arena talent build for my ret?
I’m going to run vers/ mastery but my builds are slightly changing. I’ll update in a future guide. I do still play old build but recently have started playing templarstrikes/ vanguard of justice final reck and 1 min wings into a good amount of melee classes.
Rip, i went for the crafted boots plus neck for my first 2 conq buys. Felt I'd get a nice boost with that. Holding onto my token though so hoping for nice vault reward.
I hope you didnt use conquest for boots :P you can get a trophy to upgrade your boots for free from opening your first victory chest from PvP in skirms or BGs
@@LvladenPvP How do I upgrade my boots for free exactly? I don't understand how these new items work for commissioning gear to be made or whatever that is
Tbh it’s so close you can play whichever set of gear. Just sucks our tier isn’t really a damage increase compared to other classes. If they fix the bug to the 4 set I’d say it’s worth but until then not exactly.
ive been using your talents you used in the last video in the bg and its defiantly my fav to use ! hits so hard, its a shame about the set bonus though
At the moment it’s too early to tell. My plan is to wait and see what I get from the box. I think I’ll end up picking up the 2 set but unless they fix the 4 set in pvp I’m not sure it will be worth picking up.
Is it just me or are healer nearly impossible to kill these days? I now got at least full honor gear with my ret but still struggling getting kills on people. Healers are impossible to kill especially. I just kinda struggle in retail pvp compared to back in BC or wrath. :/ everyone feels so tanky.
i did this last season and i noticed i lived more and did more single target damage when i used just the regular gear vs tier tho i will say my wrathful sanctions are hitting 35k ish on dummy but this what i hate about the new ret they want us to be aoe monsters not the single target bone crushing beast we was while demon hunters out here hitting people for 500k in one hit and after further review damn it is only hitting 7.5ks its sooooooooooo weak smh yea this is crazy
That's a risible analysis. Haste doesn't show it's value in the parameters you've set (1 hit) neither does crit since you're doing your analysis over critless damage. You're basically saying "Look, if we ignore and forget that haste and crit have damage value, Vers/Mastery are clearly superior." No shit... Up to which point in time does a 100 damage and 5k damage holds? If someone can cast 2 FV over the time it take you to cast 1, how do you reconcile that in your analysis? Look I know Vers is important for PVP but your math is deeply flawed here :S
I’m not dipping under 20% haste with these values though. You can reach roughly the same amount of haste the 4 set gives by altering other pieces. Crit is poor stat in pvp due to the nerf and the amount of crit talents that we already possess. If you watched until the end of the video I say that they’re pretty close and the difference is negligible but if you are getting down to the tiniest numbers one hits higher.
I'm mind blown after looking at the set bonuses from todays first Vault...what the hell is this set bonus and why does the Conquest gear look so awful? This is the worst visual gear set for Paladin's I have ever seen with set bonuses that make no sense with a talent I don't even want to use. Why does my Deathknights set bonus get to improve one of his most powerful abilities? Meanwhile on my Paladin I get to improve a TALENT that I find worse than the other option? What the hell Blizzard?
Thank you for this Lvladen.
As soon as it was announced, I just had a feeling that a tier set based on expiry was going to be an awful tier that would not be usable in PvP.
Honestly I feel kind of glad that I don’t have to stress about grinding tier somehow. I can just get full Mastery/Haste set with Vers conquest set and then be good to go
Yeah I think we can kinda gear however we want this season until blizz either buffs the tier significantly or bug fixes the 4-set.
Amazing! This is precisely what I was looking for. Subbed and will definitely be here for future tests and discussions!.
I appreciate you. Thank you so much. I mean it, this really helps. I made it to 1800 last two weeks of the season (when I started my pvp journey) going from random rotation and blue gear to a fully stacked menace ( I credit my healer for the carry of course) but I genuinely took your knowledge and applied it the best I could and the results were more than rewarding. Again, thank you man 🙏
My pleasure :D
Thanks for the vid! Really resolved my doubts and guesses here! When I first saw the S3 tier set bonus, my first thought was that it would be burdensome to try hitting all the judgements on expurgation in the pvp environment. At the end of the day, we are palladins, not some tunnel vision zuggers. Of course I'll never say no to some extra damage. But making the damage rotation easy and focus more on landing proper hoj, monitoring the battle situations, and maximize our utility spells are much more valuable to a W. So if the tier set bonus does not give us like 10% damage buff on our major skills or greatly improve our burst window output, it's not worth it if we need to pay extra attention on our rotations. For now, I won't even try to get the 2 set bonus and will go straight to the old talent tree and mast/vers build.
I'm curious about execution sentence vs final verdict though, the tests i ran show it is higher dps to my dismay... no?
I hope someone from Blizz is watching these , its real sad we got Tier like this in PVP.
Thank you for the vids, even though im feeling weak im glad to know from another perspective about ret palis
It was so easy getting to 1700 then once I had my 2 set I think I started prioritizing expurgation over final verdict and now I’m 1500 lmaooo
I mean you aren’t considering that full tier will have a lot more haste (and some crit aswell I guess) so of course vers/mast will hit harder, but may not be higher dps overall, with shorter gcd, more procs and crusading strike hp
It also has less versatility, which probably evens it out and reduces damage to boot (which is kind of important for ret considering they're frequently focused).
the main point is tier set sux
lol it's so obvious, how can you miss it? Preparing a video like this for a day and not accounting for haste.../facepalm. Time for you to learn about simcraft
I have similar levels of haste between the sets.
I have similar levels of haste between the sets.
Thank you looking into this! When I was testing on PTR, popping everything and seeing WS so low on with FV was very odd, I thought I wasn't looking at it right lol, but I guess I was.
Has anything changed ?
Wait - is it even possible to hit with FV and judgement 100% of the time with the set piece bonus damage? Meaning, wouldn't there times in chaotic situations/split decisions where you choose say FV over reapplying Expurgation (for whatever reason) - if that's the case, wouldn't the 4 piece set bonus be even worse?
This is a good point
As we are here on 12/16 is it still safe to say that I could make a bunch of crafted pieces and buy some WPVP/conquest pieces and just go for higher stats and not even mess with the tier set?
I am currently not running any set pieces
It's the same with ele shaman 2 set. It's only doing 33% of the damage.
Perfect thanks for this tests give me some ideas what to do next!/ any changes with talents build for better results using Vers/Mastery pvp gear ?
YEAH UR BACK I USED TO BE UR FAN FROM 2013
I’ll follow your lead but what talent build in general do you feel is best for full vers mastery? Do you have a gearing plan? Not a big fan of hast is we go for burst or crusade would rather stack vers and mast for biggest 1 shots single target.
Instead of PvP chest might get high pvp level crafted for more stats focused on mastery and vers. Dmg is high think that vers stacking might be worth it especially for more casual PvP or rbg.
In this season what stats should we be prioritizing as ret? Mast/Vers _> Haste then crit? Would love to know the order priority.
Thanks for your vids, has helped me get back into wow again
Yep! That there.
I was planning on going full mastery/vers too.
Idk if they ever buff these sets for pvp or if it will stay garbanzo forever
I think if they fix the 4 set it will be worth running. I’m going to test just running the 2 set in the near future.
Just asking, why would you select weapon as your first conquest item? I did some simple math and please tell me if I'm wrong. In the second week you'll be accumulating 1350+550 = 1900 conquest and 16 trophies. Assuming we're going full vers/mast build, if you buy the weapon with conquest, you'll end up with a 489 weapon, a 486 shoulder, and a 486 wrist. But if you use trophies to buy weapons, you'll end up with a 486 weapon, a 489 shoulder, a 489 wrist, and a 489 cloak! Use 3 ilvl on the weapn in exchange for 6 ilvl on the gear plus an extra 525 conquest item is not a bad deal imo. Also consider the fact that the trophy weapon has a higher proportion on mastery, which makes it more appealing to me. I would probably settle with the trophy weapon, max out the conquest gear first, and just wait for my luck on the weapon proc from vault.
For the transmog haha, your buy order is better. I might do that particular order but im going to see what I get from the vault first I think.
@@LvladenPvP lol ok. Pretty dope mog tho. Makes sense😄
Thanks for the testing vid! Would love to see some solo shuffle videos too those would be great😍
que buen vídeo. Gracias por esta explicación era muy necesaria. A ver qué nos depara en el futuro a los paladines.
Hey Lvladen, ive been watching all of your 10.2 videos. I just have a quick question, if I choose not to seek out the set bonus what would be a good arena talent build for my ret?
Aura of Reckoning imo is a must
I agree with u. I'm going to stick with the Verse/Mast atm. Are u gonna run the same spec as last season?
I’m going to run vers/ mastery but my builds are slightly changing. I’ll update in a future guide. I do still play old build but recently have started playing templarstrikes/ vanguard of justice final reck and 1 min wings into a good amount of melee classes.
Great vid.
Although my pally is not my main it sure is a hell of a lot of fun to play and its edging its way near to it.
Is it the same with 2 set? Or is it worth getting 2 set pieces?
I haven’t done the testing for just 2 set yet but will in the future!
Rip, i went for the crafted boots plus neck for my first 2 conq buys. Felt I'd get a nice boost with that. Holding onto my token though so hoping for nice vault reward.
I hope you didnt use conquest for boots :P you can get a trophy to upgrade your boots for free from opening your first victory chest from PvP in skirms or BGs
@@LvladenPvP How do I upgrade my boots for free exactly? I don't understand how these new items work for commissioning gear to be made or whatever that is
so the seth gear is garbage, think i will go for full vers\mastery then, since it also will make you abit tankier ^^
Thanks man. Crappy news, but news we needed to hear. Ret is still paying the price from the overtune it looks like.
Tbh it’s so close you can play whichever set of gear. Just sucks our tier isn’t really a damage increase compared to other classes. If they fix the bug to the 4 set I’d say it’s worth but until then not exactly.
ive been using your talents you used in the last video in the bg and its defiantly my fav to use ! hits so hard, its a shame about the set bonus though
I hope they fix the 4 set!
So were skipping the tier set this season?
At the moment it’s too early to tell. My plan is to wait and see what I get from the box. I think I’ll end up picking up the 2 set but unless they fix the 4 set in pvp I’m not sure it will be worth picking up.
thank you for your studies, saves me doing it 😅
Is it just me or are healer nearly impossible to kill these days? I now got at least full honor gear with my ret but still struggling getting kills on people. Healers are impossible to kill especially.
I just kinda struggle in retail pvp compared to back in BC or wrath. :/ everyone feels so tanky.
Ret is definitely really bad in 2v2 arena due to the fact it does not have a mortal strike :/
the extra 3sec dot is actually 1.5sec in pvp WTF!!!
i did this last season and i noticed i lived more and did more single target damage when i used just the regular gear vs tier tho i will say my wrathful sanctions are hitting 35k ish on dummy but this what i hate about the new ret they want us to be aoe monsters not the single target bone crushing beast we was while demon hunters out here hitting people for 500k in one hit and after further review damn it is only hitting 7.5ks its sooooooooooo weak smh yea this is crazy
That's a risible analysis.
Haste doesn't show it's value in the parameters you've set (1 hit) neither does crit since you're doing your analysis over critless damage.
You're basically saying "Look, if we ignore and forget that haste and crit have damage value, Vers/Mastery are clearly superior."
No shit...
Up to which point in time does a 100 damage and 5k damage holds?
If someone can cast 2 FV over the time it take you to cast 1, how do you reconcile that in your analysis?
Look I know Vers is important for PVP but your math is deeply flawed here :S
I’m not dipping under 20% haste with these values though. You can reach roughly the same amount of haste the 4 set gives by altering other pieces. Crit is poor stat in pvp due to the nerf and the amount of crit talents that we already possess. If you watched until the end of the video I say that they’re pretty close and the difference is negligible but if you are getting down to the tiniest numbers one hits higher.
Ur a legend
I'm mind blown after looking at the set bonuses from todays first Vault...what the hell is this set bonus and why does the Conquest gear look so awful? This is the worst visual gear set for Paladin's I have ever seen with set bonuses that make no sense with a talent I don't even want to use. Why does my Deathknights set bonus get to improve one of his most powerful abilities? Meanwhile on my Paladin I get to improve a TALENT that I find worse than the other option? What the hell Blizzard?
RIP S2 set bonuses.
Ima say first just so that nobody else has to
It’s a pve guy making pvp gear
no we dont it is a waste of time we pumping anyway
Hello , i need contact with u can i have your discord or email? Or dunno
You can drop your question in the comments :)