My earlier comments criticizing the infeasible tool calibration of the QCTP (in the previous video demonstrating this model) got condemned. Now we have another demonstration admitting that I was right, and showing a new backstop feature to maintain the QCTP position. But that won't solve the dilemma. Those new backup stops on the QCTP are going to break the machine when a crash eventually occurs. The unbacked QCTP clamping acts as a mechanical circuit-breaker/weakest-link to avoid damage to the motion components on an overstress, but the stops defeat that. If the machine has the applied power to achieve proper MRR across the dimensional envelope, that's enough power for the machine to break itself on a motion interference fault. Reliable chip formation requires rigidity and heavy MRR which this machine can't do except in a limited range of diameters. Most operations progress through a range of diameters and what tool/feed/speed makes good chips at one diameter will not work at other diameters. Seriously doubt that chips can be reliably controlled through the whole range of any given operation. This is a weak link that spoils the whole operation. Instead you have to have a diligent human operator attending with a pause button to stop the machine and clear out bird nests. Certainly not fire-and-forget, or lights-out.
Hi Richard, thanks for the considered post. In your opinion, is there an alternative machine capable of unattended operation anywhere near the 8L's price point?
@@darranedmundson1505 I'm not up to date on what's available. My general result based on the engineering experience of building a CNC lathe in this size, is that scaling down to this size and price is below the minimum required for unattended piece tasks, such as the chip-control hazards. But it already requires all sorts of attention all the time (calibration, stock feeding, manual tool changing, etc.), so it works as a CNC-assisted machine, just not a fully automatic CNC producer. It requires a human operator full time, but it does take the manual drudgery and care out of the actual cuts. So it's potentially worthwhile, but I don't expect there will ever be automatic CNC on this scale and price.
@@darranedmundson1505 If you're running enough parts to require unattended operation, you should be buying a full featured cnc lathe from any of the usual culprits (Haas,Mazak, Doosan etc)
One really has to play with the feeds and speeds. I run a lot of stainless and alloy steel up to 32rc. I run at 400 sfm, but adjust depth of cut to no more than .01". I have to dial in the feed per rev to get the chips to break, depending on alloy. Once I have that information I write it down and it has proven to be very consistent when programming another part. I always use coolant. As far as the tool post movement, I replaced the factory screws with a quality screw, and have not had any issues. I consistently turn up to one inch diameter material from aluminum, alloy steels and stainless, each having very different feeds and speeds. I have found I generally have to adjust a little heavier feed per rev while taking a slightly less depth of cut to get chips to break. It takes patients, as with the limited horse power you're always running about at its peak horsepower, but with good quality tooling its can be done. It's not the fastest machine, but it also doesn't a require rigger, or three phase power. It has a very small footprint, and definitely serves a niche. It's not going to run a thousand parts a day, five days a week. It can definitely open some doors for people. I have found it to be reliable, and repeatably accurate.
"Kick my SFM" sounds funny =) All in all, Tormach 8L seems to be a nice machine for training. Lack of power pushes you to really think about feeds, speeds and tool geometry. And I really like this series of videos except they might be longer) Good luck!
I have the same busted parting tool for my Grizzly 10X lathe🤣As a Tormach 1100 owner this seems to me like a machine for a school lab and not much else. In a small shop for the same cost you could get a 12X lathe and tool it up pretty nicely with DRO, QCGB, QCTP, collet closer, and knock parts out pretty fast, and be able to do a much wider range of parts. Without a bar puller or tool changer you're going to be standing in front of this machine the whole time too. For some real fun, a while back I decided to try milling a round part on my 1100 and was pleasantly surprised by how well it worked out. Round to within a few thous, easy to put nice threads on with a thread mill, and I added a 3-jaw on a fixture plate to my setups so I can drop it in almost as fast as I can chuck it up in the lathe. Now the lathe really only gets used for the rare case I need a "pneumatic" slip fit or where it's faster to rip a basic part out by hand than to model it in CAD. Milling doesn't work for long parts either, but for those the 8L will be a glorified manual lathe too.
i just bought a haas SL10 used about 12 years old 18,000. I will never play with stepper motor toys again. They caused me a lot of greif over the years. ( I assume stepper). I had the spindle rebuilt for another 6 k from haas. My haas is a real machine with 12 tools. My freind bought a tomach lathe and he was sending his parts to me as his lathe was always down or didnt have the travel to do a 3.0 long part. Not sure why, I think it was using multiple tools for boring and drilling. He ran into a clearance issue somewhere. His was a slantpro. It was more like a slant hobby
Lol, ugh saw the insert and the 49$ price tag and took me a second that's for 10 of them most likely 🤣. I was like that insert better turn SS chips into gold haha.
I´d miss my 3mm/.120in radial DOC and 0.4mm/rev (about 15 thou/rev) feeds on our Doosan Lynx220LM in 304 stainless to get that Bx&@ch to break nice chip on this Tormach, but for someone who wants to get into CNC world, pretty capable lathe to be fair! :)
Get a proper motor for your toy. If your spindle slowes down or stops and the rest of the machines doesn't react fast enough, then you're crashing the machine.
I'm so glad this machine was out of stock shortly after it came out or I may be stuck with it now now full of regret.
Why is that?
My earlier comments criticizing the infeasible tool calibration of the QCTP (in the previous video demonstrating this model) got condemned. Now we have another demonstration admitting that I was right, and showing a new backstop feature to maintain the QCTP position. But that won't solve the dilemma. Those new backup stops on the QCTP are going to break the machine when a crash eventually occurs. The unbacked QCTP clamping acts as a mechanical circuit-breaker/weakest-link to avoid damage to the motion components on an overstress, but the stops defeat that. If the machine has the applied power to achieve proper MRR across the dimensional envelope, that's enough power for the machine to break itself on a motion interference fault.
Reliable chip formation requires rigidity and heavy MRR which this machine can't do except in a limited range of diameters. Most operations progress through a range of diameters and what tool/feed/speed makes good chips at one diameter will not work at other diameters. Seriously doubt that chips can be reliably controlled through the whole range of any given operation. This is a weak link that spoils the whole operation. Instead you have to have a diligent human operator attending with a pause button to stop the machine and clear out bird nests. Certainly not fire-and-forget, or lights-out.
Hi Richard, thanks for the considered post. In your opinion, is there an alternative machine capable of unattended operation anywhere near the 8L's price point?
@@darranedmundson1505 I'm not up to date on what's available. My general result based on the engineering experience of building a CNC lathe in this size, is that scaling down to this size and price is below the minimum required for unattended piece tasks, such as the chip-control hazards. But it already requires all sorts of attention all the time (calibration, stock feeding, manual tool changing, etc.), so it works as a CNC-assisted machine, just not a fully automatic CNC producer. It requires a human operator full time, but it does take the manual drudgery and care out of the actual cuts. So it's potentially worthwhile, but I don't expect there will ever be automatic CNC on this scale and price.
@@darranedmundson1505 If you're running enough parts to require unattended operation, you should be buying a full featured cnc lathe from any of the usual culprits (Haas,Mazak, Doosan etc)
One really has to play with the feeds and speeds. I run a lot of stainless and alloy steel up to 32rc. I run at 400 sfm, but adjust depth of cut to no more than .01". I have to dial in the feed per rev to get the chips to break, depending on alloy. Once I have that information I write it down and it has proven to be very consistent when programming another part. I always use coolant. As far as the tool post movement, I replaced the factory screws with a quality screw, and have not had any issues. I consistently turn up to one inch diameter material from aluminum, alloy steels and stainless, each having very different feeds and speeds. I have found I generally have to adjust a little heavier feed per rev while taking a slightly less depth of cut to get chips to break. It takes patients, as with the limited horse power you're always running about at its peak horsepower, but with good quality tooling its can be done.
It's not the fastest machine, but it also doesn't a require rigger, or three phase power. It has a very small footprint, and definitely serves a niche. It's not going to run a thousand parts a day, five days a week. It can definitely open some doors for people. I have found it to be reliable, and repeatably accurate.
"Kick my SFM" sounds funny =) All in all, Tormach 8L seems to be a nice machine for training. Lack of power pushes you to really think about feeds, speeds and tool geometry. And I really like this series of videos except they might be longer) Good luck!
Excellent video! Thank you! Thanks for covering the 8L! :)
How about adding a 48v live tool spindle for some live milling.
I have the same busted parting tool for my Grizzly 10X lathe🤣As a Tormach 1100 owner this seems to me like a machine for a school lab and not much else. In a small shop for the same cost you could get a 12X lathe and tool it up pretty nicely with DRO, QCGB, QCTP, collet closer, and knock parts out pretty fast, and be able to do a much wider range of parts. Without a bar puller or tool changer you're going to be standing in front of this machine the whole time too.
For some real fun, a while back I decided to try milling a round part on my 1100 and was pleasantly surprised by how well it worked out. Round to within a few thous, easy to put nice threads on with a thread mill, and I added a 3-jaw on a fixture plate to my setups so I can drop it in almost as fast as I can chuck it up in the lathe. Now the lathe really only gets used for the rare case I need a "pneumatic" slip fit or where it's faster to rip a basic part out by hand than to model it in CAD. Milling doesn't work for long parts either, but for those the 8L will be a glorified manual lathe too.
I will love to lean how to operate CNC MACHINE you did great man
Love Nyc CNC tech videos lots interesting videos
Thanks for the good information, can you do the same video but with Haas st20y please.
I'd love to know the part number on that sandvik parting tool if you can spare the time, thank you!
Looks to be RF123E059-08B
Incredible video!
You can easily get used machinery that can do real work for the same or less money as any of the budget mills out there.
Amazing video, great information💪🏼
Can ask you what is the part number for the sandvic grooving tool, I liked how it did the profile cut. thanks so much for your videos.
i just bought a haas SL10 used about 12 years old 18,000. I will never play with stepper motor toys again. They caused me a lot of greif over the years. ( I assume stepper). I had the spindle rebuilt for another 6 k from haas. My haas is a real machine with 12 tools. My freind bought a tomach lathe and he was sending his parts to me as his lathe was always down or didnt have the travel to do a 3.0 long part. Not sure why, I think it was using multiple tools for boring and drilling. He ran into a clearance issue somewhere. His was a slantpro. It was more like a slant hobby
So, what your saying is, unless you want to turn half inch aluminum, get a bigger lathe
Thanks for sharing
so when are you making a solid tool post??
Thanks for the video. When you say 40 thou radial depth of cut, do you mean the diameter is being reduced by 80 thou?
Lol, ugh saw the insert and the 49$ price tag and took me a second that's for 10 of them most likely 🤣. I was like that insert better turn SS chips into gold haha.
It would be great to see metric conversions. Like you guys did it before :)
A lot of it is pretty easy math I’m sure you don’t want to do math while watching but still😂
Apply yourself
Will these be added to the proven cut recipes?
you know it's a mini lathe when you can hold the chunk in one hand and swing it around like that
Cool video. Your voice is soothing Lol
I´d miss my 3mm/.120in radial DOC and 0.4mm/rev (about 15 thou/rev) feeds on our Doosan Lynx220LM in 304 stainless to get that Bx&@ch to break nice chip on this Tormach, but for someone who wants to get into CNC world, pretty capable lathe to be fair! :)
Hello what is the sanvik cutoff tool part number? Thanka
i think we all know what that last part made out of titanium was for. ; )
What about the RPM? Why don't you include the RPM setup?
I get that this is meant for the hobbiest but man does that ever look frustrating to run. It can't even cut small diameter aluminum properly.
0:06 "and for your entertainment"
i see what you did there on the left side 👀
I appreciate the honest review. That thing sure has a small capacity and is pretty low powered.
this is the video I needed to show me that I shouldn't buy one of these. thanks.
Get a proper motor for your toy.
If your spindle slowes down or stops and the rest of the machines doesn't react fast enough, then you're crashing the machine.
?? This is a high-end hobby lathe, essentially. It's never been promoted as a heavy duty machine - that's not its purpose.
Shite !
First
My machine behaves nothing like this. .015 DOC, half of what you recommend and it stalls and chips carbide. What gives..