Finding the best LCD for retro gaming - 4:3 aspect, 240P processing, no lag
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Can a trash picked LCD TV from the mid 2000s be any good for retro gaming? Apparently yes
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VWestlife The largest 4:3 LCD TV - Ölevia LT20S: • The largest 4:3 LCD TV...
240P Test Suite: artemiourbina.itch.io/240p-te...
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0:00 Intro
1:22 What about that other LCD thing?
2:21 The features and price
5:05 Power consumption
7:15 RF tuner
8:57 Sound quality
10:18 Composite
11:57 Viewing angles and stereo
12:36 S-Video
13:39 RGB SCART
14:24 Picture settings
15:36 VGA
19:18 NTSC
20:15 240P processing
21:20 Lag test - STROBE WARNING: skip ahead
21:54 Refresh rate - STROBE FINISHED
22:28 DVD/CD player
24:37 Summary
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Thanks for watching! 
Хобби
I hoard 4:3 LCD displays! I have a background in marine electronics, working mainly on the electronic systems on fishing boats. Quite a few years ago there was a transition to LCD screens over the older CRT displays. There was also a move away from the all-in-one equipment to a separate black-box/screen/control panel set up. These are were all designed to be used with a 4:3 screen. Fishermen really hated it when we had to use a widescreen LCD as their radar and sonar don't look very good when stretched horizontally! Having a stash of 4:3 monitors was needed to keep them happy! 🙂
More 4:3 LCD stuff please I want retro gaming on these to catch on
I am running Virtual Nes with its own scaling filtering with a scanline generator on led,lcd,Razer tv.Heres my scaling preview.
ruclips.net/user/shortsMampBYA9fYk?si=ZhHEadQCkn_-3VH-
These early LCDs are a fantastic solution, especially for people wanting the component option without breaking the bank.
I have two 2000's TVs, different makes, but of the same vintage, packed with interfaces, for old computer use. They are very useful. Great video.
Note: as a gamer myself, I find that, scart, composite, component, s-video and RF is supported by the SNES as is most consoles of av support
I would not connect not connect a tv desiigned to run on uk power source just because scart is supported don't mean it is compatible in australia
I got such a Beast from LG and it has Scart, DVI, VGA, etc. - I got it on my workbench for casual gaming and more for testing.
Best decision ever, also it was for free.
For the record:
LG Flatron M1940A
- RF in
- Composite
- Scart
- VGA
- DVI
Can't live without it, I even have it plugged via DVI/HDMI adapter to my docking station for my modern laptop.
I picked up a nice Philips 32" LCD TV with scart, RGB (for VGA), component, composite and s-video input, plus stereo/mono audio in, a couple of USBs, remote etc for $15. Has analogue and digital tuners and has a service port, most likely unused in the Australian sold model. Very happy with the whole thing.
These make great monitors for early stuff. If you dig around on the internet, you can find lists of some of the more uncommon sets that support 15khz natively for the Amiga, like some of the Samsung Syncmaster units.
Those Dmtechs lcds were sold here in Finland too. They were perfect for RV use. If i remember correctly Gigantti sold these here its part of Dixons CarPhone company
Thanks for the great content again.
I will need to have something similar in the close future.. those CRTs do not last forever and they take more space and many have the high pitch noise.
Anyhow, since you have asked :-) At least I would be interested about the small testing LCD build-up and parts listed. I might occasionally need something like that for a quick test when cables to hook for the decent monitor is not possible when everything in parts and 1m too far away ;-)
About the DVD fixing... I am not sure it makes any sense even to open it. I do not think you will use it almost ever... but instead you can still give a try with a VCD (VideoCD disc). I used to have a bunch of those written with old cartoons for the kids back in 200x era. That might be still playing since that is written on a normal CD. At least that would be more for me to be interesting.
BTW: Funny to see how many comments arrived just in a day... I would never thought that an old LCD TV will have this much interest... first I almost skipped this video because of the noname brand but I must say I found in the end interesting, though I would go similarly as somebody already suggested to have a more branded model like LG or Sony on my table...
Anyhow it was a good catch and congratulation to it.
the high pitched noise is actually kind of nice but i get why people are turned off
Just plugged my c64 into a sony bravia kdl 32s3000 720p that's been sitting unused for 15 years. To my surprise and contrary to the manual it displayed the pal 240p in composite and s-video. It's loaded with just about every input you can think of. Not tested the lag yet.
I just got one like that free from the side of the road. 2007 640i 4:3 analog only 20" TV Sylvania. The only reason I will keep it is for 240i retro gaming.
The DivX logo on the player might be a sign that it should support those MPEG-4 encoded DVD rips that were all the rage here in Europe in the mid 2000s (when you might have a PC DVD player but only a CD burner so if you wanted to backup a DVD film, compressing it was the only way to go).
Great stuff. I wonder how it goes with Amiga screenmodes?
I'm was pretty confident it will work fine, but I'll give it a test at some point. Probably do a follow up video on the disc drive eventually
Get them while they're still around! 🙂 I've had excellent luck finding a few cheap mid-2000s 15" 4:3 LCD TVs that I'm mainly holding in reserve for use with C64s when my Commodore CRTs ultimately fail (one even natively supports PAL, which is almost unheard of here in Canada). In unscientific testing, their responsiveness for gaming seems perfectly fine. Both are 1024x768 native resolution, but I know 640x480 was also common on LCD TVs. The fact that your panel responded to 1024x768 might mean that the "X" stands for "XGA" and that's its actual resolution. Or, perhaps the VGA input was specifically programmed to down-scale from 768 to 480, knowing that's what most computers of the era were outputting. As for 240p compatibility, I'm not a video expert, but my limited understanding is that Composite and S-Video are outputting a fixed number of scanlines according to NTSC/PAL standards, regardless of what pixel resolution the computer/console is using internally. The LCD just never looks as good as the CRT when having to divide those scanlines into however many rows of pixels it has. -- JC
I found the specs on this one and it does list it as 640x480, but yes it seems to downscale resolutions above that. As for 240p handling, a lot of flat panel displays will interpret 240p as 480i and try to deinterlace it. It will still display an image, but will jitter with moving objects, kind of the opposite of what you'd expect. I'm always going to be a CRT junkie, but it's interesting to find cheap, half decent LCDs, I'll have to keep my eye out for a 1024x768 one to test
@@TheRetroChannel I just got one free and I don't know if it's supposed to look like it does. Not like there is another one lying around to compare the picture to.
Thanks a lot for sharing this! Very useful for me! I recently got Zaxon Just Speccy 128k which is improved ZX Spectrum with SD card reader. It appeared to be a rabbit hole... Speccy's output is RGBS (I guess) via SCART. Would be fine if I weren't in the states. So I figured I need a PVM, but their prices.... no way. Then I found out that some medical LCD like OIympus has the RGBS input in them so got Olympus OEV191H for $100 but it refused to see my speccy's signal. I used my oscilloscope to see if there is a signal even coming off Speccy and there is but Olympus doesn't see it (Olympus works just fine with composite video i checked that). Of course there is no schematic for those Olympuses, so I literally got stuck with it .. just a waste of money. Gonna open it up and see what's inside , but really that was just waste of $100 (just in case you're curious I made a video of both sides of my olympus: back side ruclips.net/video/1DaWEf2t43Y/видео.html and front side ruclips.net/video/hnUFfZfMv14/видео.html). I guess speccy is probably 240p but Olympus can't go below 480i but there is not manual neither for my speccy nor for olympus so I can only guess for now. Nevertheless, thanks to your video I ordered RetroTINK (Scart to hdmi) and that cheap (not really cheap) aliexpress GBS (scart to vga/hdmi). Considering all those purchases I made already I guess I should have just look for PVM... but whatever. Will see whether at least something works.
Btw I fixed that VIC1541 thanks to another series of your 1541 videos! (appeared to be just one ROM replacement) so it works (I wonder why nobody paint that commodore insert on the top of those drives ? I did, looks pretty ruclips.net/video/7UCuJFjv_hg/видео.html)
Sorry for too long comment....
Have you seen the LG dual up monitor??? Would love to see the lag measured on one of those.
I think you my]Amy have gotten your $5 worth mate. Well done and good upcycling!
I know a lot of 2000s era Samsung led panels handle 240p properly.
Really curious what panel is in here. You said viewing angles are OK, but you did not show them.
As far as I have seen, the only decent true 4:3 panels in LCD were IPS van PVA ones in 1600x1200 at 20 and 21,3 inch. Most 640x480 ones were TN or low contrast, and the 17/19 inch ones never were 4:3 but 5:4.
I think it is really obscure. For easy retro LCD gaming, my go to are 2008-2010is 16:9 Bravias. Those are FullHD, but the contrast is very modern (>1:2000), inputs are plenty with 3x HDMI, 2x RGB scart, VGA, dual composite. Other excellent TV's for retro use are same period Viera plasma TV's by Panasonic. Both the Bravias and Vieras are very easy to find and cost like 25 bucks today.
I have a couple of LG 4:3 lcd tv with all the older inputs. We didn't really have component on most uk tv because everything used RGB scart.
Here in Aus we didn't really have SCART, and also component wasn't a big thing until progressive scan DVD players came along. We we're stuck with composite most of the time, so it was quite a shock to see something with SCART here
Lol, the cheap and nasty "Symphonic" branded thing I got today has almost all those inputs, except scart (because NTSC).
I VERY much suspect it's got the same chipset as the old CRT sets, excluding the jungle chip.
I have a couple of 4:3 Dell monitors which I think are great - SVideo, VGA, DVI and a composite input that works with both PAL and NTSC. There are a couple of models that even handle 15KHz, but unfortunately mine don’t. They even have Picture-in-picture and a USB hub. We don’t get the luxury of SCART over here though. I picked them up for $5 each at a thrift store along with half a dozen that only have VGA.
HI! Could you confirm the actual model number(s) / build month/year of the dell monitors you using?
@@DavidFarrellEastBay sure. 2007FPb, from 2007.
Build date was April 2007. It doesn’t say the day.
@@Doug_in_NC I've got one of those, a rev 05 manufactured August 2007 with an IPS panel. Unfortunately, it doesn't like 50Hz PAL signals; a garbled image is all I get .
@@marNL1970 That’s a surprise. Mine are a bit earlier in the year though, March and April. Model is 2007FP, even the manual says it does PAL, it’s not a hidden feature that someone found out about by accident.
Are the Sharp Aquos lc-20b4u-sm good?
Im thinking of picking up a Samsung SyncMaster 940MW localy. Do you think this lcd would be ok for Amiga , commodore ect ?
According to this website, it does not support 15khz RGB. So unless that is incorrect it probably won't work 15khz.wikidot.com/
@@TheRetroChannel thanks mate , thats a handy website. I think ill pass on it then.
I think the picture is bad in 4:3. Plus it's not full 4:3 on the screen. There are better devices for that.
Plasma 4:3 or
Large 4:3 displays with 4K resolution.
Composite input? Stereo speakers?
It looks like a wide screen. Yes it will handle 4:3 aspect ratio, but 4:3 monitors are “square” looking where this is clearly a rectangular monitor, 16x9 capable.
You know, I would love just one solid CRT for "everything retro", but the problem is that, with all the popularity and whatnot, it has become very difficult to do just that without blowing and arm and leg off. On the auction-site I have locally, there's a case of people knowing what they're selling, often keeping better stuff and getting rid of the "lesser" stuff. And of course, when there IS something better up, either the asking-price will be high or there will be a serious bidding-war. - So, it has gotten out of hand with the obsession of people and become not fun anymore. It was fun when it was "Oh, haha. I buy old TV for cheap cause is better than LCD.", but now it's "You pay me, snob, 500 Euros for old CRT.". - So that's why I'm actually resorting to just finding a good LCD that gets kind close. I'm seeing some of these DMTECHs around where I live, even seemingly more modern ones with HDMI, which I'm not sure if that's what I should get considering it would probably be higher resolution. But anyway... Guess I could try one. - I just want to either hook up my Mega Drive II, PlayStation 2, or get a Pi with emulation set up. I guess in that last case an HDMI-input would be great.
One with higher resolution and HDMI would be neat, but I wonder how it would handle older signals. I was quite shocked by how well this one performs with 240p, but it's let down by the lower res and lack of a HDMI or even DVI input. At the same time I fear something slightly newer with those inputs will not handle 240p correctly
I prefer 15 inch 4:3 lcd display... I find 20 inch screens too big... back in the day the displays were 13 inches!
Is it possible that the DVD player is region locked?
It is, but I found the codes to unlock it afterwards and it still won't read discs. I cut down that part in the video but it sat there for a couple of minutes trying to read that DVD.
I just want to to play my ps2 games with no jaggies! There was only one tv that my cousin had that did that but sadly it broke!
EIZO Flexscan s2133, its a modern display (2015), proffesional use, 4:3 LCD-IPS panel, rest of panels are TFT and that wash colours too much, not a good option in my opinion.
Oof, looks like it still comes with a professional price tag as well.
@@TheRetroChannel Yup, haha, I took mine from a closed clinic, it cost around 100€, but its the best UXGA monitor in the market by far.
Good score 👍
Or a HP 2065LP, those do like 20 bucks.
Its a 5:4 format monitor but as you mentioned easy to pick for 20€ here in Europe, good pick! @@lovemadeinjapan
how do I get a haircut like that, heh, love your content, particularly as a fellow Australian near Melbourne. Im a some would say mentally ill Atari/Amiga collector with about 18 working computers, 8 and 16 bit, about 8 810 & 1050 drives, 4 n1084 monitors etc, all working. Ive got two non working ST's and two 1050 drives not working so im always keen to learn from clever guys like you
Try getting struck by lightning lol
The motion blur is pretty bad on all these 4:3 lcd tv's. If you already have a modern gaming lcd you might as well piss the original hardware off and just emulate so its upscaled by the pc not the monitor and add a subtle scanline filter to get your nostalgia hit. If you're going to meme on a 4:3 LCD just feed everything via the vga port as it probably has no processing.
It's an LCD . . . not retro. Not suitable for retro gaming.
For retro you use a CRT.
Most games took interlace into account and were not intended to be pixel-accurate.
Yes and no. I just hooked up my RGB-output (yes it has it) Videopac with absymal low resolution, like 120x160 pixels or so, to a FullHD Bravia LCD over SCART, and it looks fantastic! Because the resolution is so low, it was already blocky on a CRT, and it does not matter if each pixel is 4 scanlines or 16 LCD pixels in height. For my PC Engine shmups (also with RGB output by default) I can really appreciate a Trinitron hook-up, although on some my Plasma TV is offering an astonishing experience as well. If you care about low-pace (S)NES games, both consoles only doing junk RF/Composite output, I prefer to emulate on a MacMini and just feed 1080p to the LCD TV/Plasma. Even on a CRT a real SNES looks crap.
I see absolutely no benefit for a 4:3 LCD. The 1080p TV's from a bit later are so much better. Take a 1080p Bravia from 2008. Those have a massive collection of inputs, 3x RGB scart, 3x HDMI, VGA, composite, component, they have wide-gamut CCFL backlights, a remote, good RF tuner, noise-reduction (if you like), 1:3000 contrast (these tiny ones are more like 1:400), great viewing angles and they cost like what, 25 bucks. So you can hook up NES+PC Engine+PC+C64+PS2+PS3+PS4 all together.
I own a Sony bravia, 32 inch and runs RGB perfectly. Also a Panasonic also runs the same. Panasonic is slightly more modern.
Some lcds are debatably better than crts in some cases
but it not a Dell
Ewaist bins here i come :)
TVS RGB LUZ Limpar rápido AV CRT bonitos OFF gosto sim muito 👁🥰👌✅🎮 jogos importante estudar perfeito PASS
TVS Composite rium AV ou HDMI ruim porblemo jogos coisas LED HDR UHD LCD SDR feios 👎👁☹ não gosto
Scanlines ❤
Scaler4x ❤
ScaleFX ❤
CRT ❤❤❤❤
CRT Geom ❤
Ossc ❤
Scale9x ❤❤❤❤
Scale2x ❤❤