I have a 24" crt for my retro consoles, I find it much easier and better than faffing about with all the scalers and other paraphernalia that goes with them. Even low quality composit or rgb cables give so much better picture than the RF from my childhood that I scarcely even desire anyting more. I do use the RCA soutn outputs and a hifi amp though because the sound being bad is so much more annoying for me.
I just bought an oscilloscope (same one as you, in fact) and am learning to use it on my retro systems so this was a very helpful and interesting video! I like how you went through multiple troubleshooting scenarios and explained everything including the math, so that it would be helpful for more than just one retro system. I hope you do more like this one. So glad I found your channel!
I just bought an Amiga500 and a Commodore 128. The Amiga video output is RGB and therefore is perfect hooked to a modern LCD with péritel. The Commodore 128 is not in the same league. For 80 columns, I soldered some resistors in a péritel plug, hooked a cable with a DB9 and voilà, perfect RGB output for the 22" TV. For 40 columns, I replaced the horrible RF output with a Videoplus 128 module, plugged the S-Video to the 24" TV péritel and after hours of turning the pots, I eventually got rid of the jail bars.
Wow! This was the most educational video I have seen in a very long time in all the retro computer channels I follow. I thank you for taking the time and putting this together. You should tackle the Sinclair Spectrum 128K (Toastrack) too. It is notorious for color bleeding and jail bars. Although some "band aid" mods are available, none of them is a real fix. Most of its video problems originate from its design that considered the RF output as the primary source of video and audio, so they didn't care how clean was the RGB output. This was mostly valid back in the day, but not anymore, everyone uses the RGB output with a SCART cable, either directly into a TV, or thru an upscaler device into HDMI. Although the RGB output is much cleaner than the RF and composite outputs, I believe it can be much better with a fix like this.
Slightly freaked given I put out a plea for advice on video signal hygiene, on a few retro discord servers, just two days before this video dropped… life saver!
Awesome and informative video! I loved how you reasoned through the problems and came up with creative/ simple fixes. Bravo! Also, what a superbly useful video debug board. Simple and useful, ordered it immediately! Thanks.
This is an amazing, instructional, educational and entertaining video that's fascinating and I am watching for the second time now... Thank you so much, you are the best! 🙏🏽
LOVED this video, so useful. I'll be using this is a reference video for years to come. Thanks for making it :) Don't apologise for the duration, all justified. I have been working on an issue with my A4000 and for one thing I was told my RGB output was too low (30mV) those telling me this though, did not shat what it SHOULD be. Your video cleared that up, totally, and a lot more. For instance WHY are capacitors used in these cables, and WHY the resistors are there. A very interesting point it raises is. It appears to get the best from different machines, you may, if you can be bothered, wish to use a specific RGB to SCART cable for each, as it appears generic resistor values can lead to a slightly dim image. I suppose also it could allow over-driving the signal as well, and blow out the image. My issue, with my A4000 is not fixed. Ill make a video on it soon!
Really great video! Although I am far from getting myself an oscilloscope this really showed me what mighty a tool it seems to be. What I did not get is: Why not placing all modifications in the console to be able to use any cable that has no device specific components in it?
Yeah, I will probably go back in and put all the components inside the console rather than the cable. I just need to find a good place in the signal path to insert them
Next step would be to hook the Master System up to an RGBtoHDMI. With a fully populated "Analog board" it should be able to differentiate between the 4 voltage levels on each of the R,G,B channels. As long as all signals (including the CSYNC) are DC-coupled you can dial in to basically any voltages generated by the machine. I am not sure if anybody has done that yet, and there is no profile for this in the RGBtoHDMI firmware release. Maybe someone wants to try it?
Great video as always. I love it the way you talk us through the whole thing and explaining about the video signals. ❤ The haircut by the way, not a fan 😅
This comment is not meant for humans, I'm just letting the algorithms know I enjoy this, with a bit of interaction... Feel free to like this, or leave a nonsense reply if you feel the same need.
Very unlikely to happen for the 128. I've had a brief look and they seem to be linked to the data bus inside the VIC-IIE. Hence lumafix being hit and miss for a lot of people (including myself) right frequency, wrong target
I used to draw for hours on my 8bit hooked on a CRT through RF (with my joystick) ....so I don't know what common issues you are talking about analog signals....lol
Here in the United States, at least it's still decently common for a lower end televisions to have analog inputs, last time I looked at a television [in the context of what ports it has] was a few years ago though, so I have no idea
Yeah, I'm using much older systems, most that ONLY offer RF out. At least I do still have a CRT display that makes their video look pretty good. Otherwise I have to convert from RF to AV to HDMI using rather long cables that seem to introduce a lot of spurious interference. And I sure don't have an ocilloscope. You seem to be starting already halfway there.
38:17 Could you have re-soldered the components to the same places on the top side of the PCB, but not flush with the PCB. Like, leaving "long legs" on the components. Not a native English speaker, so I don't know if I am explaining it correctly, sorry.
@@TheRetroChannel Yes, I meant soldering new components and keeping them as far apart from the PCB as possible by keeping their legs as long as possible.
I didn't even realize it was an hour long until the end.
Now I can’t unsee your comment LOL!
This is one of the best videos I have watched on RUclips for understanding video signals. Thanks!
That hair grab transition was epic 😂😂😂
I have a 24" crt for my retro consoles, I find it much easier and better than faffing about with all the scalers and other paraphernalia that goes with them. Even low quality composit or rgb cables give so much better picture than the RF from my childhood that I scarcely even desire anyting more. I do use the RCA soutn outputs and a hifi amp though because the sound being bad is so much more annoying for me.
Congrats for the video. This would be one of your top 5 best ones !!!
"Before we get all silly with the scope..." Well played sir, well played.
Great video and very educational. Thanks!
This is a fantastic video. I learned a lot as I am trying to get into building my own cables. Thank you
I just bought an oscilloscope (same one as you, in fact) and am learning to use it on my retro systems so this was a very helpful and interesting video! I like how you went through multiple troubleshooting scenarios and explained everything including the math, so that it would be helpful for more than just one retro system. I hope you do more like this one. So glad I found your channel!
Thanks for making the extra effort; there's a ton of useful info and tips here!
I just bought an Amiga500 and a Commodore 128. The Amiga video output is RGB and therefore is perfect hooked to a modern LCD with péritel. The Commodore 128 is not in the same league. For 80 columns, I soldered some resistors in a péritel plug, hooked a cable with a DB9 and voilà, perfect RGB output for the 22" TV. For 40 columns, I replaced the horrible RF output with a Videoplus 128 module, plugged the S-Video to the 24" TV péritel and after hours of turning the pots, I eventually got rid of the jail bars.
Wow! This was the most educational video I have seen in a very long time in all the retro computer channels I follow. I thank you for taking the time and putting this together. You should tackle the Sinclair Spectrum 128K (Toastrack) too. It is notorious for color bleeding and jail bars. Although some "band aid" mods are available, none of them is a real fix. Most of its video problems originate from its design that considered the RF output as the primary source of video and audio, so they didn't care how clean was the RGB output. This was mostly valid back in the day, but not anymore, everyone uses the RGB output with a SCART cable, either directly into a TV, or thru an upscaler device into HDMI. Although the RGB output is much cleaner than the RF and composite outputs, I believe it can be much better with a fix like this.
I do have a toastrack, no idea if it works so I may need to tackle that first.
Super informative! Thanks for going that extra bit to explain the process.👍
Slightly freaked given I put out a plea for advice on video signal hygiene, on a few retro discord servers, just two days before this video dropped… life saver!
Superb! Crystal Clear.
Awesome and informative video! I loved how you reasoned through the problems and came up with creative/ simple fixes. Bravo! Also, what a superbly useful video debug board. Simple and useful, ordered it immediately! Thanks.
Thank you!
This is an amazing, instructional, educational and entertaining video that's fascinating and I am watching for the second time now... Thank you so much, you are the best! 🙏🏽
modded my pal n64 to svideo following online guide and never been happy with it - def going to try aometof these techniques to troubleshoot. thanks!
LOVED this video, so useful. I'll be using this is a reference video for years to come. Thanks for making it :)
Don't apologise for the duration, all justified. I have been working on an issue with my A4000 and for one thing I was told my RGB output was too low (30mV) those telling me this though, did not shat what it SHOULD be. Your video cleared that up, totally, and a lot more. For instance WHY are capacitors used in these cables, and WHY the resistors are there.
A very interesting point it raises is. It appears to get the best from different machines, you may, if you can be bothered, wish to use a specific RGB to SCART cable for each, as it appears generic resistor values can lead to a slightly dim image. I suppose also it could allow over-driving the signal as well, and blow out the image.
My issue, with my A4000 is not fixed. Ill make a video on it soon!
Love it :) especialy for that composite attention :)
One of your best videos ever I am going to have a look at my Atari 400 and see what I can do thanks
What an excellent video. Learned a lot. 🥂
Awesome Video mate. Keep it up. It will help alot of people.
Amazing video I need.more content like this !!!
excellent video!
Another awesome video from you!
Really great video! Although I am far from getting myself an oscilloscope this really showed me what mighty a tool it seems to be. What I did not get is: Why not placing all modifications in the console to be able to use any cable that has no device specific components in it?
Yeah, I will probably go back in and put all the components inside the console rather than the cable. I just need to find a good place in the signal path to insert them
Next step would be to hook the Master System up to an RGBtoHDMI. With a fully populated "Analog board" it should be able to differentiate between the 4 voltage levels on each of the R,G,B channels. As long as all signals (including the CSYNC) are DC-coupled you can dial in to basically any voltages generated by the machine.
I am not sure if anybody has done that yet, and there is no profile for this in the RGBtoHDMI firmware release. Maybe someone wants to try it?
Sounds like the CoCo 3 Analog RGB profile might work, though you may need to tinker with sync settings.
We combine H+V with diodes.
Great video as always. I love it the way you talk us through the whole thing and explaining about the video signals. ❤
The haircut by the way, not a fan 😅
This is a great video! I hope you do the same with the audio humming/noise issue. 😅
A very interesting video. Friar Tuck haircut - love it.
This comment is not meant for humans, I'm just letting the algorithms know I enjoy this, with a bit of interaction... Feel free to like this, or leave a nonsense reply if you feel the same need.
A very nice video! Would you be able to trace root of Commodore 128 jail bars and nail them?
Very unlikely to happen for the 128. I've had a brief look and they seem to be linked to the data bus inside the VIC-IIE. Hence lumafix being hit and miss for a lot of people (including myself) right frequency, wrong target
I used to draw for hours on my 8bit hooked on a CRT through RF (with my joystick) ....so I don't know what common issues you are talking about analog signals....lol
Here in the United States, at least it's still decently common for a lower end televisions to have analog inputs, last time I looked at a television [in the context of what ports it has] was a few years ago though, so I have no idea
I wore that exact same shirt for my wedding :)
(The one with the chip over the heart)
Yeah, I'm using much older systems, most that ONLY offer RF out.
At least I do still have a CRT display that makes their video look pretty good.
Otherwise I have to convert from RF to AV to HDMI using rather long cables that seem to introduce a lot of spurious interference.
And I sure don't have an ocilloscope.
You seem to be starting already halfway there.
38:17 Could you have re-soldered the components to the same places on the top side of the PCB, but not flush with the PCB. Like, leaving "long legs" on the components.
Not a native English speaker, so I don't know if I am explaining it correctly, sorry.
Maybe. But the legs on those components were already short, so I would have needed to replace them all with new parts
@@TheRetroChannel Yes, I meant soldering new components and keeping them as far apart from the PCB as possible by keeping their legs as long as possible.
Where did you buy those tweezers? Everyone seems to use them, but I can't find them :-)
Search for ESD tweezers on eBay/Ali/Amazon
what kind of transistor You used ? diode 4148.
2n2222 transistor, 1n4148 diode
I'm only here for the haircut.
All I know is that Adrian has constant issues with retrotwink.
🍪
🟥🟩🟦
A certain softness? What scan lines? What is this guy on about? Couldn't get pat that and watch anymore.