SPRINGBOKS VS PORTUGAL LESSONS LEARNED! | Rugby News
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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I think Rassie should play Mannie and Sacha against Australia at 10 and 15, and see how it goes.
@kevinewert8546 ja I think so too, with Pollard on the bench.
or we just pick the best team, for the game.
@duanecronje of course. That is what "and see how it goes" implies. You don't know what the best combinations are until you've tried them.
@duanecronje well, that is possibly the best team until Willemse comes back from injury. With Pollard on the bench in case Manie struggles with game management. Depends on Willie as well. Although I would rather see Sacha at fly half, I think it could possibly be detrimental to his game to have him swapping positions all the time and not getting settled, I still think its worth trying Manie at 10 and Sacha at 15
The frustrating thing about Libbok is that this has been an ongoing problem with his game for a couple YEARS now. The lack of improvement is baffling. The Stormers kicking coach is redundant.
Handre is also not improving his attacking game, we should get someone else to kick
@@Magashu214 ya 2 time world cup and B&I Lions winner really has to prove himself
@@elduderino3236 Pollard is one dimensional, that's what he means - he can only kick to goal, nothing else. Libbok is a better number 10 than Pollard and Sacha, but he lacks at goalkicking.
@@real_bakerman Kicking is vital in test match rugby. If Manie doesn't sort it out, he will slip out of favour with the Bok system. Unless we rely on someone else for the kicking, for which there is none currently.
Percy and Andre Joubert were kicking fullbacks
@@justinnell1957 correct. But le Roux and Willemse are not.
Mannie Libbok is definitely a great flyhalf, his general play and game management as well as his kicking out of hand, he is the best fly half in SA if they want to play the attacking style.
He's in a slump with his kicking, it's in his head. Surely the coaches can or should be trying to do anything they can to help him fix this problem. Sasha is lacking experience, and will definitely benefit from playing or training with Manie.
Some players need a sports psychologist. But Manie needs a sports psychiatrist. For all the good that he does, Manie's poor kicking demoralizes the team. Everyone works so hard and Manie fritters away the team's efforts with his horrible kicking. Sacha is the future and it's time to move on
@leoncolwin8645 didn't Pollard kick horrible too but you not moving on from him since itz manie libbok u very Quick to Cut the guy out of the team leave libbok on 10 put Sacha on at 15 give him the kicking Duties but I don't think tht wil happen Pollard is number 1 just like libbok Sacha wil be in his Shadow playing frm the Bench an wil come on in the last 5mints
Damian W is our 15
I think people piling on him with criticism is not healthy because he just got started this is only his second year in the boks.
@@yazeenvanwyk8131 Since Pollard came through at the World Cup we can allow him one bad day. But Manie is consistently bad. How many more chances do you want to give him? One more bad game? Ten more? Or by now isn't it clear that Manie will never be a reliable goal kicker?
I agree with many saying this is the end for Manie. He can play against Argentina because he is beter quality level then los pumas. Sacha i think needs to be pushed up to 2nd choice and let Siya Masuku and Manie fight for 3rd choice.
When i took my PH exam, there were certain sections you had to pass in order to pass the test. You could get 100% for everything else, but if you dont know your rowland ward and SCI values, you fail the whole exam. Goal kicking is like that. When Willemse comes back, we won't have space in the backline for an extra goalkicker, so the fly half has to be able to kick. He can do everything else 100%, but if he cant kick, he fails the test. And thats unfortunate for Manie
Exactly. Imagine if Marx was a terrible lineout thrower. That would completely negate all his other contributions. Positional fundamentals matter.
@@kristian762 Exactly.
People must know, if they didn't, Ntamack one of the best 10's in the world never kicks for poles. Neither for Toulouse or France even if it's a straight or easy kick Ramos does all the kicking for poles
Our 2007 WC flyhalf Butch James was not the main kicker for Poles, Montgomery was
There is a lot of examples out here not gonna name all of them. SA fans and media just need to GET OF MANIE'S BACK
And this is coming from a Bulls fan
Larkham never kicked for poles either
Problem is to find another kicker 🤔
Sacha a better all-rounder and better rugby brain than Manie.
no hes not! do we know if he can get the backline going? put people into space? assess the situation, delay a pass ? tackle ? can he handle it at 10? absolutely ridiculous specualtion after 1 and a half games or so.... also most of Sacha play came from 15 postion and open play as to 10
@@garthmanuel5701what can he do if the forwards don’t have ascendancy. For example, like World Cup semi final against England. Or what would have been able to do against Ireland in the 2nd test in Durban.
Mannie is awesome when get front foot ball. But if we going backwards or got parity then he crumbles.
Also Elrich Louw looked so good coming off the bench with Ruan Venter. Both look very physical, but i have a feeling that 1 of them will probably drop out. Phepsi looks very good at 6 and should stay at 6. Evan Roos is still getting on his feet in international rugby, but i think he will show his qualities soon.
Whereas I do believe RG was deserving of the Man Of The Match award, I also believe that Manie must have been in the reckoning too. In the formal phases from especially set pieces he was absolutely brilliant and personally effected three tries. His defense was also excellent. It's been a long time since last we've had a playmaker like him at 10. Once he gets his goal kicking sorted out, he may very well become the best 10 in world rugby.
Why cannot we fix his kicking, Manie . It's in his head....need to fix it... this is a good player even if it does not start.
I agree. Why don't we employ Braam van Straaten to help Manie?
Libbok needs a psychiatrist and a psychologist...This Guy needs to learn how to manahe his self doubt and his thoughts and he needs to learn methods of managing his thoughts, vision and game under pressure.
Look at these other comments 🤣 Wud be easier to train a chimp FFS
Seriously what's his overall kicking percentage it's better than Beuden Barrets its better than Elton.
I said n year ago manie is not a natural goal kicker. Wil never be. He cannot naturally kick far so he force that with is leg not his hips. His wonderful playmaker but no cannot fix that.
Sacha also played in three of the previous games starting with coming off the bench against Wales, whereas Manie came in Cold and was brilliant ball in hand.
Vskoning vi punte weggooi?
Ben Jason Dixon honestly deserves to play for the green and gold. Considering the fact that Peter steph Du Toit and Franco Mostert might not be ready for the first rugby championship match, he is the utility forward we currently need. He is an absolute workhorse🔥.
I do agree ,that Manie was outstanding in creating linebreaks , try assist and finding space . People must also remember that they played without Andre!
“Our best attacking 10 in the county is Manie Libbok.”
Fully agree with you. I hope Rassie is not listening to all the noise from the couch coaches
Unfortunately he fails the kicking test and has failed it too many times. I agree that he is a brilliant flyhalf, but he is also the kicker. We won three games in a row in the world cup with one point, you can't afford missing kicks, not at the rate that he is. This is not couch coaching, it's just a fact.
@@MrExtreme69 We also won many games (NZ Twickenham, Scotland QF, Tonga must win etc.) with Manie crating try scoring opportunities for the backs like Kurt-Lee. Who would forget the no-look kick from hand resulting in a brilliant Kurt-Lee try? Bauden can’t kick for NZ but he makes the team successful with what he does.
@@user-mi1oi9gv3w I hear you and I agree, but still he can't keep missing kicks. If we can find a way for him and Sacha to play, it will be perfect. Just don't know how. We will see.
Scotland QF? That was a pool game?
As a sharks fan, I feel the Stormers have to score a minimum three tries every game to make the play offs.
The question then becomes, can you score three tries in every test match? The answer to that is also the answer to who plays at fly half.
Mannie doesnt have to kick. During Jake whites years Percy was our kicker and he was a 15. So why cant SFM go to 15 and kick with mannie at 10? I think that would solve that problem.
Because we need Manie and Sacha at 10 for depth. We have enough cover at 15 already.
Cause you destrou SFMs game long term...play him in his most natural position n not cover
Pollard has a playmaker, get Manie a Kicker.
YES!!!!
Mannie controlling that 13 man team, and getting that backline going... just shows south african fans know FOKOL about rugny...its just provincial bias and thats it.
A lesson I learned is that this Feinberg guy is going to be special
Manie is good, but he can’t kick and even if it did improve it would never be where it should be in big games. Sacha is complete. Next World Cup is far in the future. Now is the time to develop him at 10 that’s his position! don’t play him out of position at 15. Damian Wilemse when fit is our best fullback.
Fit Lukhanyo Am is a cheat code
But Jesse still starts before him at the moment
@@nevillepieterse9983 Nah..Am is better suited for the current attacking style.
Am is not for the future getting to old remember he play against Portugal 😮
People forget that Am was the best centre in the world 2 years ago. Jesse is good, faster, more physical but Am has a better rugby brain.
@@mothothebe5974 I dont think so Am is past his best dit not even made the sharks team last game
I mean, why not pick a game and try 15 Feinberg-Mngomezulu 14 Kolbe 13 Am 12 Willemse 11 Arendse 10 Libbok 9 Williams... See if they light it up. Nothing ventured. Nothing gained.
love this backline
yes lets just drop our number one Pollard to make space for Libok
@@duanecronje Rotating for one game wouldn't be dropping him. Teams always experiment when they can. Just look at our lineups vs Wales and Portugal.
Manie and Sacha should start together some how, both should work very hard on their defence and off the ball work to play for the boks
With the expansive game play the Boks are moving towards Manie is the right guy at flyhalf however to keep the goal kicking on par they should use Sacha on fullback and give him the kicking duties. The problem tho will come when Willemse returns where to slot him in as he's also a plamaker for an expansive game? As much as i like Allende the better option for the new brand of running rugby the Boks are heading to, Willemse should then slot in at no.12. Then you'll see some running rugby. Roos also a good player but teach him to pass to support players😂. Vannie Kaap.
Yup I agree with most on the comments , Manie at 10 & Sasha at 15 would be amazing 🤩
Yes lets just drop Pollard
Manie is still my first choice flyhalf. Pollard is old news because he's one dimensional. The backline is in complete dissaray when Manie isn't there. My solution to this is having Manie at 10 and Sacha at 12 or 15, and he could kick to goal.
The solution to Mannie is putting a 15 on the field that can kick to poles. I would love to see Sasha play 15 and Manie start. This will be amazing
Manie's poor kicking means that if Manie were to play, that Sacha has to kick. And if Sacha kicks then he has to take someone else's position. If Sacha plays 15, then Willemse is out. If Sacha plays centre then Kriel/Damian/Am/Moodie is out. If Manie can't kick, then he can't be allowed to remain playing flyhalf. The simple solution is to replace Manie with Sacha and leave the rest of the lineup intact. Every player has to carry the weight of his position.
And what happens to Damian Willemse?
@@nevillepieterse9983 damien bench, he can play 10,12,13,15 even wing. He is coming from injury so he will not start anytime soon.
@@leoncolwin8645 Willemse at 12, his natural position
@@revripple Willemse has to play fullback.
What about a backline with Williams, Manie, Shasa, Am or Jessie, Colby and Kurtly/mapimpi, sharks fullback . Keep forwards and reserves. We appreciate what honour they broad but, Leave the old guard for allblacks to phase them out completely.
Folks seem to forget that Manie marshaled the backline minus a player. It did not even seem that they were a man short. If you want an attacking flyhalf, pick Manie/Sacha..if you want a kicking flyhalf, pick Pollard/Naas.
Great show Stephen
100% agree with you Manie is the best fly half we in this country people can so quickly forget how good his was against Scotland and France in the World Cup, his control of the game yesterday was amazing and we looked so much better on attack in general not just Portugal. SA fans are so quick to disgard very good players and go on the hype train. I really like Sashe and he is in good form but lack experience and will need to be eased into the big games.
I tell you this ....Jessi have done nothing to deserve it but if Am's back to his best then I'll put him in that 13 shirt right now ...and that's crazy but I would
With ball in hand Manie looked better than Pollard. That pass to Am was a thing of beauty. His kicking broke my heart though. When Willemse returns Manie may be left behind unless we have a 5/3 bench.
I was rooting for him to have a good kicking game yesterday too, but he fell way short 🥲
Manie is still the best flyhalf in SA. Kicking coach should look at a line adjustment for Manie.
Keep Manie around I agree best 10 attacking player in SA
Maine should be second choice together with Sanele and the kicking problem will be solved. Pollard 3rd option or should compete for inside Centre role because he gives us nothing on attack
Libbok may attack all day long but if he can only kick at a 40 percent level as against Portugal, he should not be starting. To put SMF at 12 or fullback is doing to him what SA coaches did to players like Hougaard, Russell and Pienaar, forced them into their team into positions they could play but stymied their talents. SMF should replace Libbok sooner than later.
Put manie in but also take post kicking away give someone els why not
he should be playing 15 not 10 buddy.....he has had enoguh time to fix these issues and hasn't and in fact getting worse.....and we all know that it is only a matter of time before it starts affecting his game in general
Nohamba needs a call up. He's the reigning URC player of the year, he's got a diverse skills set & he cud therefore be an excellent addition to the Bomb Squad. He & Libbok cud be an undersized but brilliant combination. He deserves a shot.
I feel he said or did something when he was called up in 2021 that has put him out a favour.
Nohamba is not springbok material
@@jj56x7.5mm on what grounds?
@@itsovergetuptherejoe useless in big matches
@@jj56x7.5mm I feel like every game the lions play is a big game. He did really well against Glasgow and the Bulls especially at home last season.
I’m not saying change your opinion, I’m just surprised at your comment
Mannie is a fantastic player, just needs to sort his kicking it is that simple.
how are we talking about sacha starting at 10 ahead of libbok when that doesn't even happen at stormers??
sacha game time will be at 15 because willemse is injured and willie took a knock against ireland. not sure how long he's out for
Defend on flanks really concern.
The reason we value kickers is because they win us world cups:
Stransky
Montgomery
Pollard x 2
We need a kicker like Sasha to win us another World Cup.
Especially during knock out tournaments where there is little too choose between the opposition
Exactly. End of discussion.
Sure, famous Bok flyhalf Percy Montgomery
@@revripple kickers bud… not fly halves
@@crowbarbob1900 That was my point .
Manie controlled the game superbly. There's no question that he's our best 10. You guys are being too harsh.
The game is fine margins now where games are won by a point or two whag will you say if it’s last minute of the 2027 rugby WC semi Final for example and Libbok Mia a fairly straightforward kick
Would you still be supporting him then?
Don’t get me wrong I like Manie too, but if there is better BMT PLYERS knocking on the door, then let them in
*miss
The simple fact is that the margins are so fine at top tier international rugby. Leaving that many points off the board will cost us big time. He's consistently sub-par and showing no improvement.
Imagine both Manie and Sasha in the team
Why is everyone hellbent on getting rid of Manie. He is a brilliant attacking flyhalf, above average defender and a horrible kicker. Surely we can find someone that can do the kicking, have different options and get a serious kicking coach to assist Manie. Sacha is a wonderful and talented no 10 but is it not nice to have options. Manie's style of on the gainline attack play is what put teams under the kosh. Now everyone also wants to drop Pollie, he was not on par against the Irish but after a break he will come back stronger. There are horses for courses and the Portuguese was not a true test for our young team..
If only manie libbok kicking accuracy was on point he would be first choice
Cheslin Kolbe can kick…
I'm tired of seeing people saying we should find place for BOTH Manie and Sacha. Mostly saying we should move one of them into a position that already has an excellent player in it, so someone gets dropped just to accommodate Manie's inability to kick at goal. So the whole team must change because HE, despite having tons of time to get his kicking fixed, has not. Just ridiculous.
boo
Completely agree
Manie has the goods ..Percy overcame same problem.....he needs to kick faster imo...
i agree Percy was dropped for years, He overcame his problems and was selected again. same route will be the best way. but actually i dont care i will support with what ever Rassie do.
Pollard missed 3 easy ones against Ireland...not a word😂 never seen any instruction manual saying your 10 MUST kick at goals..yet we'll sacrifice playmaking and try scoring potential for the hope that a one dimensional uncreative, flare lacking 10 "might "kick us a winning goal...definition of stupid imo...lets move on please and unlock our true potetential..our squad is too good to be needing some desperate kick to win...sure Pollard kicked the winning goals at the WC but we never scored a single try in the comp again either.
So you'd rather score tries than win? Make a list of all the games Pollard was poor off the tee, then do the same for Manie, and you will come to your senses.
@@elduderino3236 1st Irelsnd test 2024, lost test against england 2018, Aus Brisbane 2021...but thats not the point, I watch rugby to see tries and a kick is just a bonus and often does decide the result unfortunately, I just dont understand sacrificing all our running talent in the hope we might get a kick over, its kak to watch, I saw people walk out of the 2nd Irish test saying they cant watch this bland kicking crap, now you tell me, Why does the 10 HAVE to kick at posts? Sure we need a kicker but isnt playmaking and creating the 10s biggest job? Mortlock, Barrett, Eels, Montgomery...bullshit 10 has to kick at posts, sorry thats my opinion.
Let me understand you Steve: you want Sasha at 15 and Willemse at 12. So De Allende must go to the bench or not be selected at all in order to accommodate Manie because he can’t kick. You are absolutely off your head. Go see someone. You need help. We lost to Ireland in the World Cup because he couldn’t kick!!! 11 points left on the field.
Weird you don't mention Moerat, not a great performamce as captain or player.
But we already knew that
@@evanh8749 solid point.
Pollards defending is not that great. come on...! over the years he has missed crucial tackles...
I'm not sure I like what I'm seeing from the Boks, something's not lekker !!
Dont let your head swole to mutch it was only Portugal Ireland woild have put 50 against this bok team special with andre red card😅
U need to get close to 100% kicking average from the tee if u wanna beat the top teams. Time will tell when the pressure is really on....not this team that struggled to qualify for the RWC. Manie SHUD NOT be allowed to kick for poles EVER. Will cost the Boks many games like that useless Elton Jantjies did. Can't live in hope.... FFS.
You sound like a clown.
The 2 fly-halfs should be Sacha and Handre. Time to fix Manie has come and gone. The media hype with his "no-look" kick had the sheeple follow suit. He really does not stand out so much in attacking. Fact of the matter is that he cannot kick. A fly-half can kick. End of story. Maybe try wing or center?
Dullard
Manie can peel the oranges 😊
No lessons learned, sorry. Just as brainless as against Ireland. Senior players giving away red, yellow and penalties, WOW!
🤔why didnt SA fans. Thrash Pollard when he ws kicking bad but when it comes to Manie Libbok he wil just be the bad guy
Because it is rare for Pollard to kick badly, and his general play is, at worst, solid. Libbok can be brilliant in general play but his worst is very bad (eg the semi final against England). It is rare for his goal kicking to be good. Its mostly bad
@mallencolly Jesus do you hear Your self No matter wht Pollard do he wil always be your hero
@@yazeenvanwyk8131 Yes, if Pollard has am off day, it would be once every few years
@@yazeenvanwyk8131 all you have to do is show me I'm wrong. Its that simple.
Rare failures as a goal kicker vs rare successes.
@mallencolly u funny tho no law says only the number 10 must kick 🤣 Manie libbok wil never be good enough for you so let's leave it at that keep your success with Pollard and cut the failure who is manie libbok he wil be loved and appropriate somewhere els you SA supporters are really something els
Sorry manie gone cost us a game. Try to make him a fullback. Then we have to to consentrade on Willem se and manie.