The Synagogue and the Church Emergent (The Jewish Encounter with Rome Pt. X)
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- A brief discussion of the growing rift between the Jewish community and the emerging Church in the 1st and 2nd centuries.
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I’m in Rome right now, and my visit is immeasurably enriched by your lectures. Thank you, Dr. Abramson.
I am so glad to hear that!
Thank you for this lecture. You have especially clarified the Edict of Milan. I have taught about the Edict of Milan differently with this edict giving Christians freedom of worship and freedom to have reigious buildings. I was not as clear on the context. Now I see the greater worth of putting Christians and mainstream Jews on equal footing.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus pbuh and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
Prima. Wunderbar. Excellente. Why not a triplicate of appreciation for such a well-done presentation? This kind of sharing of history is truly enlightening. Shalom in the common new year.
Thank you for another peek into history that is not usually given in the main stream lectures .
I've read John's Gospel several times and did a7month study on it, but now will read it with new awareness. Thank you, love lectures. Packed with information.
Thanks a lot....always learning.....ד''ר יעזור לנו.....😊
20:35 Cinemascope as fair as I know means the curved screen intended to be “immersive” - you can see the indication on the poster. You had to get special lenses in the cameras and in the projectors (and then the curved screen!) to keep everything in focus - an early kind of IMAX.
Awesome ride thru history. Toda Raba
as a passer-by that believes that Jesus died and resurrected, i admire and praise your impartial view of what has happened post-Temple destruction. One thing i could take from the Gospels was that he loved Israel and loved the Jews more than any other people, hands down. He told that woman from Syria or whatever that bread destined for children shouldn't go to dogs. and he loved the Torah as well as the Temple.
I would recommend reading the reviews on Amazon on this book, especially the one star reviews. For comments on the Gospels I would recommend Rabbi Tovia Singer (who especializes on the Gospels and Paul, in fact he has memorized the Gospels as well as the Tanach and he can even tell you where the Church changed the translated "Old Testament" to match what the Gospels say concerning Jesus and the Jews), and I would love a discussion about this book and the books Rabbi Singer has written "Let's Get Biblical" between Mr. Abramson and Rabbi Singer pertaining to the Gospels and especially Paul. Thank you Mr. Abramson and please consider contacting Rabbi Singer. :)
I’m sure Rabbi Singer and I will have a conversation sometime.
Thank you for this presentation.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for being a Member!
Thank you Dr!
You're most welcome!
Thank you for being a Member!
Sorry I miss the teaching live, BH for replay..
Very informative. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Doctor
Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai according to tradition hid in a cave in a city called Peqi’in(פקיעין). This city situated in the upper Galilee were Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chanania had his Yeshiva ( אחרי רבי יהושע לפקיעין)Sanhedrin 32b.
This was the only city that had a continuous Jewish Musta’arabi community from the destruction of the temple until 2007 . They survived the Byzantines . They became Arabized with the Arab conquest. Fought with the Arabs against the Crusaders. Survived the Mamluk and Ottoman rule.
Their cemetery is probably the oldest surviving one in all of Israel.
Zinati, who was born in 1931, is the last link in the chain of a Jewish community that apparently maintained a continuous presence in Peki'in since the time of the Second Temple, when three families from the ranks of the kohenim, the priestly caste that served in the Temple, moved there. Since then, the only known break in the Jewish presence was during two years in the late 1930s, when the town's Jews fled the Arab riots of 1936-39. (Haaretz Eli Ashkenaz 25 July 2012)
Thanks!
Thank you for supporting the research!
Dr. A, I wanted to share three thoughts with you about the initial, very early rupture between Christianity and Judaism.
1) The "Gospel" of the rabbi Jesus is in many ways defined by a critique of his fellow rabbis, as well as priests and scribes. Jesus felt they had compromised the essence or "Holy Spirit" of the Torah while attending to less important details. This is summed up in his delicious saying, "You strain the gnat but swallow the camel" (Mt 23:24), and it's a theme throughout all four Gospel narratives.
And I think Jews today can happily admit he had a point. The Talmud, Kabbalah and Hassidis each represent Jewish corrections of a tendency toward a legalistic obedience and self-righteousness that sets aside the humble, kind and simple love of Hashem and neighbor that is the beating heart of the Torah. Despite its often adversarial abuse toward Jews, Christians deserve some credit in constantly reminding Jews that love of Hashem and neighbor are the heart of the Torah.
2) The Apostles made a controversial decision that Gentile Christians need not be circumcised. The decision was correct: Believing in the God of Abraham doesn't require a non-Jew to become Jewish. Jews will later formulate this same idea in the Talmudic "7 Noahide laws" that represent a further development of the same doctrine that appears in Acts 15:19-21. St. Paul's mortal enemies, the Christian Judaizers (see Galatians 5:12) were wrong, not only from a Christian perspective but a Jewish one also.
The problem was marriage, an issue that the Apostles themselves failed to adequately address. It's great for Gentile Christians to follow the Spirit of the Torah without any need to follow the letter, but to marry a Jew, they need to become Jewish. Otherwise the Jewish people cease to exist.
The Apostles themselves thought Jesus' return would be imminent and therefore didn't consider the matter worth addressing. 1 Corinthians 7:25-40 represents a _non-answer_ to the problem. The Apostles failed to make adequate provision for Jewish Christians to remain Jewish.
3) The problem exploded over a 75 year period. Peter, Paul, James and Mary all died around 63 AD and many Jewish Christians returned to Judaism afterward (compare Hebrews 2:1 to 1 John 2:19). The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, which Christians interpreted to mean that God intended that the Church would replace the Jewish nation as "the chosen people." The abject failure of the Bar Kokhba rebellion and the humiliating imperial devastation that followed seemed to confirm this "replacement theology."
During these years, rabbinical councils began formally expelling Jewish Christians from synagogues and enacting thinly veiled anti-Christian formulations, many of which are preserved in the Mishneh and Talmud. So, for one example, there is no evidence that Jews ever believed Divine Revelation ended with Ezra until after Christianity began gaining steam. That formula is transparently designed to "poison the well" (excuse the distasteful pun) against Christianity: "The New Testament can't be Scripture because God only speaks Hebrew and after Ezra he stopped talking."
For its part, the Church misinterpreted various passages in the New Testament to suggest that Jews were somehow _sinning_ (!) when they attempt to follow the literal prescriptions of the Torah.
At that point the rupture and divorce was complete.
For my part, I believe the letter of the Torah is for Jews, and the spirit of the Torah is for everyone (Jew and non-Jew). This formula contains the key to a reconciliation of the family.
Henry, I truly enjoy the style and substance of your presentations. You're like a CFL bulb: a lot more light than heat!
Thank you for the book recommendation! Sorry I've missed classes. I had unknowingly been unsubbed. Wishing you a very Happy New Year!
I sincerely enjoy your many teachings and have learned a lot about the Jewish world from you. This video is particularly well done--thank you. You mention that the Gospel of John is quite different than the synoptic Gospels and you are correct, of course. I understand that one is not supposed to read the Gospel of John literally but rather probe for the symbolism and deeper understandings that John conveys. It is tragic that those who read or have read John literally have taken the term "the Jews" to mean the Jewish people rather than "the enemies" of Jesus, which, in my opinion, is a more accurate way to understand John's writing.
"There is wide agreement among exegetes that in these cases (i.e. where John mentions Jews in a context that generally suggests hostility to Jesus) "the Jews" denote opponents of Jesus, but there is considerable disagreement about just who the opponents are. According to many, "the Jews" in John represent, not simply Jews, but the sinful world as a whole. On the basis of this interpretation, some commentators argue that John's use of "the Jews" is not anti-Jewish because he is not actually referring to Jews at all. Such reasoning, however, is hardly logical. As Ruether points out, quite the opposite is true. Using "the Jews" to denote, not only Jewish opponents of Jesus, but the whole sinful world is scarcely pro-Jewish. In such a case "the Jews" have become the epitome for what is evil!" John T. Townsend, "The Gospel of John and the Jews: The Story of a Religious Divorce" ( www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/research_sites/cjl/sites/partners/cbaa_seminar/townsend.htm)
The Roman Catholic church needs to be accountable for what they did to all of us, but in particular, the Jews of Spain, Portugal and Italy. Using the Spanish nobility they hurt our families in a way that still reverberates today. I'd want to see reconciliation one day, but they need to return homes and lands- to the conversos, marranos and anusim- because it needs to be returned- we still sing songs to Shimon Bar Yochai and, at best, the church today continues to be indifferent to these concerns.
I read somewhere about the role of Alexandria in Egypt in the emergence of antisemitism long time before Rome became a major power, and I wonder whether the later role of Alexandria in the early Christian church had an impact or was impacted by this previous antisemitism in the city?
Alexandria had a large Jewish population. Part of why it became one of the first Holy Sees.
Dr Abramson, I’ve heard it said that about 10 % of the population of the 1st century Roman world were either Jews by birth or followers to some degree of the ethical precepts (“hangers on” if you will). Does this sound accurate to you? Also, Saul of Tarsus was both a Roman citizen and a Jew by birth. How common was such a dual identity? Love you lectures and was thrilled to be able to attend one live!
This is true. If you don't aponed against the emporor, any religion was aloud in roman times. (christians will hate me, sorry ) It could be that holy later Paul was a roman man to look about conspiracy Elements of all the new judochristians, possibly enymies of the emperor. And Saul later Paul created the great Religion of Christians at bis travels. I think jews never really are giving up their believe. (Don't kill me please. 😥)
Rick Jones
Jews were definitely living all throughout the Roman Empire. 👍
- Acts 14:1
- Acts 17:1-17
- Acts 18.2
- Acts 18:19
- Acts 28:17
- Obadiah 1:20
- 1 Chronicles 29:29 -> Gad the Seer 2:23-25
@@karlschreiber9286 Saul/Paul didn't create christianity, that is a myth. Jesus didn't create Christianity either. The truth is uncomfortable for jews and christians so we ignore the elephant in the room.
Bought the audible book Constantine's Sword. (Hope for the New Year)
Enjoying the book but his beliefs can certainly be Roman Catholic.
Relics are considered to have spiritual value!
Very precise. And I would mention the later converted pagan kings and so on, only making war in the name of Jesus. Thank You
Did you ever read what the Israelites did? King Solomon sounded like a Nazi!
1Kings 9:21-22
There were still people left from the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites (these peoples were not Israelites). Solomon conscripted the descendants of all these peoples remaining in the land-whom the Israelites could not exterminate]-to serve as slave labor, as it is to this day. But Solomon did not make slaves of any of the Israelites; they were his fighting men, his government officials, his officers, his captains, and the commanders of his chariots and charioteers!
Life is no holiday except if sabbat and sundays 😉
Jews and Parthians vs Rome.... Makes sense to me, most Jews lived in Persia aka Babylon aka Parthia.
I have always heard Hoi Iudioi translated more accurately as “The Judeans”. For example this is in contrast to “The Galileans” as the term for the first followers of Jesus.
Yes, that would be more accurate. Ioudaios and Yehudim both mean Judean in the proper context.
The Robe was a great movie.
I find it interesting how the basis for supercessionism is a philosophical thought rather than based in scripture. It is interesting how these thoughts can spread like wildfire. It seems like throughout history popular Western Christianity seems to go along with wherever the political winds were blowing rather than based in the scriptures.
. . . yeah, things like the Trinity, inerrancy of scripture -- these were the result of external/environmental influences.
Trinity -- Christianity becoming the state religion forced leading theologians to mandate conformity to a particular theology regarding Jesus' relationship to God.
Inerrancy of scripture -- the result of things happening in Europe around the time of the Rennaissance, the exploration and development of science seemed like a challenge to the established authority of the Church. It later made its way into Calvinism and Protestantism.
These ideas float around in Christian communities today, but the Christians themselves don't understand how these beliefs and attitudes first emerged. It causes them to hold on to ideas that were never that fundamental, even after the original external/environmental influences that caused them have long since faded or disappeared.
No no - Rashbi hid in Pekiin not Qumran
My question is the Bible says Paul was mean't to preach to the Gentiles so I read the scriptures as without a doubt Paul denied Gentile christains had to get circumsized and It's seems Paul tells them they don't have to keep the Sabbath also.That was the point Sunday worship started,by and large with the Gentiles from the the start of Paul preaching to them.Ive read Barnabas kept the Sabbath and his travels and preaching on the Christ led to and thru the Waldensians/Cathars.
Fred Simmons
There were two Ministries going on at the same time (Galatians 2:7-10).
Jesus and his disciples ministered to Israel (Judaism).
- Matthew 15:24
- Matthew 10:5-6 -> James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1, 1 Peter 2:9-12
- Matthew 19:28
The Apostle Paul and his disciples (Acts 9:23-25) carried the instructions to the gentiles (Christianity).
- 1 Timothy 2:7
- 2 Timothy 4:17
- Galatians 1:16
- Romans 11:13
He who creates the definition, dictates the moral argument ........
As a Christian it’s obvious that I will not always come to the same conclusions as the rabbi. But is he fair? Absolutely. Is he honest? Absolutely. Is he malicious? Never. Appreciate all his videos! This is what responsible and fair scholarship and teaching look like. The interesting paradox in our shared histories is that the followers of Jesus brought a knowledge of the God of Israel to the world, while the Jews who rejected him saved Judaism and thus the Jewish people. I think both groups are essential to the world today as distinct separate entities. As a Christian I believe Jesus to be the Messiah while I simultaneously hold the firm belief that it is nothing but arrogance to tell the Jewish people who their Messiah should be since the concept came from them alone. There are Jews that will be drawn to Christianity and there are Christians that will be drawn to Judaism but the insistence of Christians to convert jews is misguided and harmful.
No you brought confusion, damaging teachings and an obstacle to a relationship with G-d.
We certainly are distinct and separate. Christianity is the antithesis of Judaism. Christianity opposes every major fundamental teaching of our tanach and all our prophets.
And jesus literally couldnt be further from the tanach's messiah. As in we really cant find anyone in history with a worse resume than him to be the messiah. I have tried. No one else has as bad a resume.
It is a tragedy if any jew ever goes to christianity. that is turning their back on their religion, nation and G-d for pure idolatry and even shitting on monotheism
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus pbuh and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
@@saul2491 you’re part of the problem. At this point in the 21st-century, we all know none of us can prove our religions. Rabbinic Judaism teaches that those outside of it can have their own relationship with God. It’s best to leave judgment up to God.
How did they save Judaism? Is Rabbinic Judaism the legitimate continuation of Temple Judaism? A Judaism which has no Temple or priests to perform the bloody sacrifices as prescribed by G_d in their Covenant? In fact, there is no sacrifice performed in Rabbinic Judaism. Without sacrifice, there can be no worship of G_d.
How are todays Jews worshipping G_d in their Covenant? Answer is they aren't. What did the priests do inside the temple's sanctuary, what was their role? Were they reading and teaching scripture? No, that was the sole task of rabbis - the priests carried out the rituals required by the covenant - the worship of G-d performed for the Jewish people.
Modern Rabbinic Judaism began with the writing down of the Mishna by Judah haNasi - this form of non-Covenantal Judaism has never existed in the history of Judaism.
With the public rise of Rabbinic Judaism in 170AD it had transformed from a liturgical and sacrificial religion to one which emphasized learning. The rabbis who previously had NO authority other than to teach in synagogues now established their own beit-din (jewish court) but they had NO authority to create such a body. Only the Jewish priests had the authority to preside over the body but now the Rabbis presided over a court of their own making.
Jews are supposed to be a covenanted people. God rejected the covenanted Yom Kippur sacrificial scapegoat in 30AD the same year Jesus started His mission. Then 3 years later the moment Jesus died G_d also left the Temple.
At the time of Jesus the Temple menorah was lit from right to left. It is specifically this left lamp which signified the presence of G-d in the tabernacle. When Jesus died the left most light blew out and would no longer stay lit. This is found in Yoma 39b. G_d was no longer present in the Temple when Christ died.
What is the authentic continuation of Second Temple Judaism? Jews have to figure that one out for themselves.
Catholic/Orthodox Christians believe G-d prescribed how He was to be worshipped, but with the death of Christ, this form of bloodied sacrificial worship was no longer required. What we have is a New Covenant Temple Judaism where the Gentiles will recognize the G-d of the Jews and we offer the todah sacrifice (thanksgiving). This is the sacrifice of the Olam Haba when all will feast and what is served at the banquet feast - The Eucharist.
Our priests of the New Covenant belong to the priesthood that Jesus the High priest-king ( Psalm 110) instituted ie the Melchizedek priesthood which is older than the Aaronic priesthood, the fulfilment of the theophany of Melchizedek giving bread/wine to Father Abraham. Our priests carry out the rituals required by the covenant - the worship of G-d performed for the people. They do this by performing the todah thanksgiving sacrifice aka the Mass.
Jewish priests who followed Jesus brought the temple rituals over: we kept the priests, the altar, the eternal todah sacrifice, the holy incense, the shewbread/Bread of the Presence, the tabernacle, the sanctuary, holy relics, confession
Maybe all of it’s true to a certain extant I had a friend who had an nde who had an angel tellhim there are many ways to god.I know also there was this Hindu teacher who had a vision of Jesus Moses and Mohammed and they told him they are all different ways to god.
Its quite unlikely that Rabbi shimon hid out in the Judean desert. This after Hadrian שחיק טמיא practically made Judea judenrein .
Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai learned Torah from Rabbi Akiva whilst awaiting execution in jail in Caesarea .(Pesachim 112a)
Was also from the five that received Semicha from Rabbi Yehuda bar Bava.(כל היכא דאמרינן מעשה בחסיד אחד או רבי יהודה בן בבא או רבי יהודה ברבי אילעאי)
בבא קמא ק״ג
because at one time the wicked kingdom of Rome ( at the time of the great shmad of Hadrian after the fall of Beitar) issued decrees of religious persecution against the Jewish people with the aim of abolishing the chain of ordination and the authority of the Sages. They said that anyone who ordains judges will be killed, and anyone who is ordained will be killed, and the city in which they ordain the judges will be destroyed, and the signs identifying the boundaries of the city in which they ordain judges will be uprooted. These measures were intended to discourage the Sages from performing or receiving ordination due to fear for the welfare of the local population.
What did Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava do? He went and sat between two large mountains, between two large cities, and between two Shabbat boundaries: Between Usha and Shefaram, i.e., in a desolate place that was not associated with any particular city so that he not endanger anyone not directly involved, and there he ordained five elders. And they were: Rabbi Meir, and Rabbi Yehuda, and Rabbi Shimon [bar Yochai] and Rabbi Yosei, and Rabbi Elazar ben Shammua. Rav Avya adds that Rabbi Neḥemya was also among those ordained.
When their enemies discovered them, Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava said to the newly ordained Sages: My sons, run for your lives. They said to him: My teacher, what will be with you? Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava was elderly and unable to run. He said to them: In any case, I am cast before them like a stone that cannot be overturned; even if you attempt to assist me I will not be able to escape due to my frailty, but if you do not escape without me you will also be killed. People say about this incident: The Roman soldiers did not move from there until they had inserted three hundred iron spears [lunkhiyot] into him, making him appear like a sieve pierced with many holes.
(Sanhedrin 14a)
@Danny Al I aint your buddy.
So you quote for me from the comic book.
Well guess what in that comic book some call Quran it says:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favor of Allah [God] upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds. O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back and [thus] become losers." - Quran, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:20-21.
So even your Majnun didn’t have the audacity to refute the holy prophets.
But on Zion’s mount a remnant shall survive,
And it shall be holy.e
The House of Jacob shall dispossess
Those who dispossessed them(Obadiah 1:17)
The 4 Gospels were written anomalously after the writings of Paul
‘The Jews’ is mentioned in Esther. Mordecai is ‘The Jew’. Also the books of Maccabees mention, ‘The Jews.’ Both written by Jews.
I hope you don’t mind me sharing this, but Christians in John’s day began to refer to themselves as Hebrews and distinguished themselves from Jews (the inhabitants of Judah and the followers of Judaism) says Eusebius.
"The Jews" refering to themselves in the third person. Interesting.
He is risen.
I'm Southern Baptist Christian. The way I see things is that God had to come to the world in the form of a man in order for the concept of the God of Abraham to escape to the world of the Gentiles. If the wider world all became Jewish, how could Jews remain uniquely God's chosen people.
Thanks for clarifying that you do not understand the principles of Judaism or the holy Scriptures.
We were chosen to be the beacon for all nations to recognize the ONE and only Creator for better or for worse there is a reason your boy was born in Israel
@@yosefgreen3130 Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus pbuh and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
@@theguyver4934 The world will come to recognition of the ONE only when both of your false religions are no more
@@yosefgreen3130 What are you trying to say
@@theguyver4934 All the prophecies of the holy Hebrew writings will come true and the existence of the world is for this and depends on it.
I like your lectures. I miss yr jokes.
Me too
What if you consider all of the Christianities that were outside of orthodox Christianity? If you look at these texts, it seems more plausible that Christianity arose when lots of various local Hellenized but not necessarily Greek people got their hands on the Septuagint and started to combine their own mystery cult metaphors with the Septuagint. Christianity may have begun in non-Jewish circles but merely appropriated the Greek translation of the Torah because of its apparent antiquity and inherent beauty, etc. The Jewish creation myth must have also seemed very Platonic to the Hellenic people of the time, and all of these weird mystery cults were Platonizing and allegorizing existing ancient myths. I can see why embracing the Orthodox Christian version of events is advantageous for Jewish people - it gives them value in the eyes of Christians when otherwise they would just be refuters of Christianity - but isn't it safe enough now for Judaism to disembarrass itself of the notion that Jews invented Christianity or that a person named Jesus who was Jewish really was the originator of Christianity? The Nag Hammadi texts and the Refutation of All Heresies contain so many examples of Hellenic syncretism that is wildly creative and not at all Jewish that it just seems to me unnecessary and unlikely that Christianity really started out Jewish. The fact that you point out, that Christians early on wanted to appropriate Jewish history but that Jewish authors were not interested in Christianity at all seems to be evidence that it is not a Jewish movement but one that originated outside. I sincerely wonder what you and others think about this idea, I'm not proposing it as though I believe it, but just for your consideration as a more plausible historical reconstruction of Christian origins. Thanks for reading my too-long post!
It's an interesting and telling statistic, the synoptic gospels vs John using the phrase "the Jews." What's been missing for two millennia from the phrase was the word "present." It should always have been "the Jews present," because clearly there would only ever have been just a few Jews present at the proceedings, some of the Sadducees-whom nobody liked, not Pharisees, not Zealots, not Essenes, not even Pilate-or perhaps just Caiaphas, and maybe some of his lackeys, certainly not *all* Jews, who knew nothing about the events, did not participate in them, most of whom did not even live in Jerusalem or any near the city.
Thank you, Dr. Abramson. One thing I'm interested in exploring is the way Roman Catholicism is depicted in history as representing "Christians" and "The Church " I'm sure in Catholicism, they see themselves as the legitimate church, but I don't think there are too many Evangelical Christians who would agree with that. It bothers me that Christians, as a whole, are blamed for the worldview and actions of Romanism, although I do concede that while Martin Luther gave us the Protestant Reformation, he was an anti-Semite. Don't know if he was always that way, or became that way...but he was responsible for violence, murder and destruction of Jewish people. I, being born again, refuse to believe that he was the only Believer during the reign of Romanism, who realized that Roman Catholicism was idolatrous, abiblical, and corrupt. There had to be a remnant of true believers in Christ prior to the Reformation. Anyway, as a Christian, I hate being associated with anything involving the actions or ideology of the Catholic Church, which I view as a separate religion. I reckon most Evangelicals feel the same way. God bless you and your ministry! 🙏🏽 P.S. You said that Jews believe it is anathema to think that God would manifest Himself as a person. What about the Angel of the Lord who spoke to Abraham before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed? And the angel who wrestled with Jacob? Christians see those events as Christophanies (sp?). Why is this anathema to Jews?
Martin Luther never committed any acts against the Jews. However he did speak that they should commit atrocities against the Jews. He was not always an antisemite. A few Jewish people financed him to break from the Church to weaken the Church's power. Once he learned if what happened Martin Luther probably felt embarrassed that he got played, so he lashed out against the Jews. This was a mistake that many Christians made over the centuries. Yes individual Jews have committed horrible acts against Christians or the church, but the entire community is not responsible. Just as the killing of Christ. Christ was Jewish, so why would we blame the entire Jewish people. But there were a few Jews of the Pharisees who wanted him dead. Not such for the reasons Christians think, but Christ came to bring a spiritual kingdom, not a material kingdom. Follow GOD'S laws and the blessings will come!
A few comments. Regarding your questions as to whether Luther was always an antisemite or became that way, and whether there were other "true believers" (by which I assume you mean people who believe like you) prior to the Reformation who recognized Catholicism for what you claim it to be, the answers can easily be found in books or online articles dealing with the history and development of Christianity. If, as it seems, these things are important to you, why wouldn't you take it upon yourself to find the answers?
As to your question about why Jews would believe it anathema to think that God would manifest as a person (actually, Prof. Abramson said "God taking physical human form"), this is a very basic, essential tenet of Judaism that distinguishes it from Christianity in all its forms and denominations. On the surface, the only reason you would question it, it seems to me, is that as a Christian, particularly an Evangelical, you just can't accepting knowing there are still Jews blind to the truth who need saving. I would never dream of going on to the comments section of a site dealing with Christian beliefs or Christian history and ask how Christians can come to believe that a human being was God. I believe that they are wrong and simply apply an old dictum, "let those who wish to err, err."
I am not a Rabbi or Torah scholar, but I would assume that someone who was might answer that the appearances of angels in the Torah that you refer to were simply ways in which divine communications were transmitted to the human beings in each of the situations described. Angels or malachim in Hebrew are messengers, and Jewish tradition has it that they are sent as sort of divine footsoldiers to accomplish certain missions. Once recognized for what they are, a tremendous sense of awe of being on the receiving end of a divine communication can be generated in the beholder but, as far as I am aware, nowhere is it suggested that these angels have any divine agency of their own. The fact that Christians over the millennia have invested so much time and energy trying to find allusions to their beliefs about Jesus all over the Tanakh, including the so-called Christophanies you refer to (some of which, incidentally, were advanced by early Church apologists such as Justyn Martyr and Church fathers such as Origen) has generally speaking been of little interest to Jews.
@@karnebo The Trinity is what explains all this more clearly. The Trinity is not three GODs, but three methods of operation. The problem in Islam and Judaism is they do not know who GOD is. Lets take a closer look at who GOD is. GOD is an energetic force of a divine nature. If we study true science and nature, we will understand GODs method of operation. The first law of all energy is that all energy must have the source from which the energy derived from. We call this heaven. In Heaven GOD is the father above all things of the universe. One source of energy. If you live in a town with 1,000 homes, and those 1,000 homes all have electricity, does it mean you have 1,000 power companies? No, it means 1,000 homes receive their power from one power company. What ye know not that your body is the temple for the Holy spirit, and that ye are not your own. Your body is a house of GOD. What is the role of a powerplant? To generate electric power and distribute it out onto objects like homes and businesses. We see in energy that all energy moves in three phases. First after creation it distributes itself. Then second, it must go through a transitional or transformational stage. Guess which one Jesus was? Then last, reception of that energy occurs. Jesus carried the fathers divine energy to redistribute it to his prophets, only to give to us. No person can get their energy straight from the power company. All homes must get their power from the power company, then the transformer slowly redistributes the power to each home. No one gets to the father except through the Son. He who denies the son, denies the father who sent him. Can a power company place large quantities of its power into a giant transformer? Yes, it can. All authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. If the father in heaven wants to place all his power into Jesus at one moment, then in that moment Jesus is GOD! However only the Holy spirit of GOD can make this claim. See your perception of GOD does not make sense. If I am a creator, I had to touch my creation. Why would I want to distance myself from something I created? That is like having a child never to physically touch him but watch his life through a video phone! Heaven and earth are to become one entity, just as the spirit and the body. The Physical and Spiritual must marry one another and become one unit. This is why Jesus first received his power at a wedding banquet. The entire Bible is metaphorical.
@@jrutt2675 Thank you for basically confirming the reason why I suggested the original poster would have asked the question in the first place. You also spared me (I was going to write "saved me", but I didn't want you to get the wrong idea), from responding to your sad post on Solomon coming across as a Nazi. It would have been a waste of my time and energy.
@@karnebo I was simply making a point. The Israelites were no angels, not even close. In fact Christians inherited most of their bad practices from the Hebrew Tanakh. Last you simply are taking the easy way out. Challenge my Trinity claim. The Rabbi Tovia Singers if this world will disappear one way or another. He has half Edom inside of him and why he challenges anything holy! He knows it was the Jews at the council of Jamina where the rabbis rearranged the text. The book of Ezekiel is not even in chronological order. Then the Masorites really did a number on the bible 700 to 800 years later. Sadly for Tovia he can only challenge ideas, and can never prove his beliefs. He can get gullible Christians and Jews to fall for his lies, but he will never get a solider of GOD!
The issue was that shimon bar kochba didnt like the hedonim (hellinistic jews) and that upset the duality of jewish society in Judah at the time. Thats why the romans destroyed the temple, not due to antisemitism but to crush the revolt at the time.
As for the jewish conspiracy of the 1600's with the rise of sabbatism and yosef frank and Nathan of Gaza. It wasnt so much a jewish conspiracy. The fact that the leaders of these movements were jews along with their gentile comrades concieved secular movements like Bolshevism. The Bolsheviks werent religious or even spiritual people, they were marxists hetetics and nihilistic evil people that opposed zionist capitalism and apparently those two opposing groups were mortal enemies. The jews get a bad wrap because they are the enlightened leaders of western society and the xenophobia is what caused the division.
Hmm
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