So yea, we kinda went a little ham on this one. Would love to talk waaay more about advanced applications of game theory (you actually can calculate a lot more accurately than we do in this video), so if you'd like to see that, let us know by like/share/subbing the video
You know what's crazy Diaphone? That I've been thinking that the mental skills we develop over time by playing fighting games, like the pattern recognition and predicting other players behaviors...is something that I apply to regular everyday life. I find myself subconsciously using these skills even in my marriage. It pisses my wife the fuck off that I can predict her mood, body language and even what she will eventually do in certain situations or interactions. I was thinking about the correlation between these things and my skill developed over years of playing fighters. What do you think about that? 🤔
What me and my friend used to do when we played fighting games is we would always tell each other which options we were over-relying on and which habits we were building after we would exploit them, it did a good job of giving the two of us better situational awareness
You do NOT understand how badly the entire For Honor community needs this information, because most of them genuinely think reads are literal BS. I WISH I was joking. Ever since the game cleaned up its act and leaned harder into proper Fighting Game design, it really plays into this as its core.
One of the coolest videos ive seen on the topic ever. As a poker nerd the moment you brought up actual game theory and not 'sf6 theory' i was super excited. Definately give us more of this!
I've played poker and other various competitive card games so my ears perked when I heard the term "Expected Value" (EV) talked in fighting game terms.
You are now one of my favorite SF6 youtubers, excellent video. Once a player can get past the immediate execution challenges your mental stack gets freed up enough to actively observe the opponent. Then you get to play with the psychology- the actual opponent, and the matches become 1000% more interesting.
Personally I love videos like this. Game theory and game sense are so important. It really makes the gap big amongst intermediate and high level players. And with the internet being such a good tool. You need to be on your shit.
The example footage, from clean demonstrations that went into good detail, as well as the hype tournament sets showing how these things really do happen - extremely appreciated
You have no idea how ive wanted someone to make this video for the longest time. Finally a have a video i can link to people when this topic comes up Diaphone always on the goat activity. The editing really made this into something way better than i could have ever done as well.
This is actually such a perfect watch for me. One of the specific things I’m trying to work on right now is rotating my defensive and offensive options. Sometimes it feels like I’m dyslexic for a lack of better words, I can’t read the correct situation almost ever. That being said the new drive reversal wake up has help my characters tremendously, incorporating backdash when I think I should jump. Thanks for the video it’s nice to have a pro players input on the thought process on rotating wakeup options!!
Have already shared and linked this elsewhere after seeing how serious, well-crafted, and thought out this is. It also makes more sense how Diaphone is so good at FGs after watching this. Guy knows how to teach.
Hi Diaphone, I've never commented on you before but this is one of the best videos I've seen around fighting games. From analysis, to content, to editing, everything is spot on. I've even shared it with people outside of the FGC, superb job!!
This is really interesting, especially the differences between games and how pros probably naturally develop a way to intuit it. I also think even if you aren't actually calculating it out, using it as a basic framework is useful. Good stuff
thanks for getting into the details about the "rock paper scissors" you kinda sound like a music teacher stressing the importance of learning the theory, not in a bad way
Me making 200IQ max EV game theory PhD decisions on every interaction vs a 1400MR WiFi Ken: *BZZZT* aw dangit (Excellent thought process, communication, and editing on this video. Great work!)
This is a great video with great edition, this type of videos are the best for the FGC, it helps new and intermediate players while sparking discussion. Props to you both
probably the best/most interesting fighting game video/topic ive ever seen in my time on the internet. I work with models like these semi-frequently (I am working on a physics and a math BS) and I've occasionally thought about these games in terms of predictive models like the calculator you used, but to actually see a real calculator applied with some ballpark approximated values is really something else. Fantastic idea.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot as a player. When it comes to my main game BBTag I have more game understanding so defending is more so my character/player knowledge. But when I try to transfer risk reward on pressure and defense into say GBVsR. I feel like I’m always wrong or the 3 interactions of damage is negated by 1 opponent interaction. It does give me an analytical way to look at it. And hopefully I’m able to use this as a base to try and get better overall. Thanks for the video dude
Great video. I think beginners who find this video shouldn't try and overthink the numbers aspect of this but more or less look at this video and think of it as an introduction to what risk-reward is and how to understand thinking about risk-reward.
This is cool. A great follow up would be about how you can use these kinds of mental calculations to develop your personal in-match head games against opponents. This is a whole aspect of the genre that players rarely get to know about if they can’t get out of bronze or low silver. But understanding this stuff makes watching competitive matches so much more enjoyable. Thank you for this video.
Its a great video. The concept in it is something that I explained to my friend back then in the sf4 era when I was selling trying to sell them the complexity of fighting games. I told them that no, its much more complicated than rock paper scissor. Its actually rock paper scissor if instead of just 3 options you had 20+ options that instead of flat out beating other actions, they each would have a positive of negative power value attached to them depending on how good or bad they beat or get beaten by other options, and thats JUST for one frame (or to be more fair, one interaction), and just one round of a fighting game can have many, many interactions. This video sums up this concept perfectly !
I think this video is an extremely comprehensive guide to the more analytical players. I don't entirely agree with the ending statement that this is the "correct way to approach" decision making, but it is a very good outline for it. Overall really good video. Probably one of the easiest to digest I've seen in a while.
I think if there is a followup, I would like to see how OS changes risk vs reward. See how covering multiple options is both a strength and weakness in both offense and defense, stuff like that
This is what I, and many intermediate players desperately need. A lot of times we autopilot to fuzzy guarding and trying to block on reaction for mix and Oki situations. But it really put a lot of these scenarios into perspective.
game knowledge is so underrated. too many people are needlessly complaining about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING CHARACTER, in Tekken 8 rn. if half of these people spent as much time studying other characters, as they do bitching about Feng, or Jin, or whatever, they’d likely find a new appreciation for both the game as a whole, but also those characters that they once complained about. turns out, every character in the game has fun aspects, and cheese, and character specific counter-play, etc, and through learning their move-sets, you’ll naturally spot the holes, and flaws in the characters design
This kind of decision-making is exactly what Your Only Move Is Hustle reproduces. It is a turn-based fighting, and every turn is a matrix game like you describe!
This is a great video, I like the idea of exploring topics that will make you a better player but aren't really that obvious. I always struggle with these more abstract concepts, especially since I can't properly get a read on opponents in a FT2 unless they're super obvious.
One thing you didn't touch on, is that you can improve your game by injecting a source of true randomness into the actions you take. For example, before playing you can assign an action to the second digit of the timer. It's not 100% random but it's close enough to not be easily exploitable
This is a brilliant way to introduce the core of fighting games in a digestible way. The interplay of optimal behavior and predicting how your opponent may deviate from optimal behavior is an endlessly fascinating puzzle to solve. Would love to hear your thoughts on more advanced game theory in fighting games. Even if you don't run literal mathematical calculations in your head while playing, this way of thinking does an excellent job of describing what your intuition is doing and can help you maximize your advantage in general situations and when you get a specific read on your opponent.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
So yea, we kinda went a little ham on this one. Would love to talk waaay more about advanced applications of game theory (you actually can calculate a lot more accurately than we do in this video), so if you'd like to see that, let us know by like/share/subbing the video
please make it!
I would love more in-depth videos like this. Love the game theory stuff.
I really want to learn more in depth fairly new to fg is really helpfull
The editing was *chef’s kiss*
You know what's crazy Diaphone? That I've been thinking that the mental skills we develop over time by playing fighting games, like the pattern recognition and predicting other players behaviors...is something that I apply to regular everyday life.
I find myself subconsciously using these skills even in my marriage. It pisses my wife the fuck off that I can predict her mood, body language and even what she will eventually do in certain situations or interactions.
I was thinking about the correlation between these things and my skill developed over years of playing fighters. What do you think about that? 🤔
Tying Evo Moment 37 and the Veritasium video about 37 together and then both into the topic of game theory is incredibly big-brained.
truly 200iq segue
vsauce levels of connections
Fighting games and game theory -> Evo moment #37 -> Veritasium randomess -> BACK into game theory? They'll remember you for this.
Now that's what I call rotating through your options
As an engineer i really appreciate when people talk about this side of fighting game.
Amazing editing in this one!
What me and my friend used to do when we played fighting games is we would always tell each other which options we were over-relying on and which habits we were building after we would exploit them, it did a good job of giving the two of us better situational awareness
3:51 this bit makes me wonder how the cast of SF6 would react to Broly lariating someone across the stage into a triple level 3 lmao
So, Marisa level 3 .... ?
@@dazedd-fi4yxif it did 30% more damage
@@natman2939 oh ok
It's basically Marisa's damage.
You do NOT understand how badly the entire For Honor community needs this information, because most of them genuinely think reads are literal BS. I WISH I was joking. Ever since the game cleaned up its act and leaned harder into proper Fighting Game design, it really plays into this as its core.
One of the coolest videos ive seen on the topic ever. As a poker nerd the moment you brought up actual game theory and not 'sf6 theory' i was super excited. Definately give us more of this!
2:36 That backdash transition
I've played poker and other various competitive card games so my ears perked when I heard the term "Expected Value" (EV) talked in fighting game terms.
This is probably one of the best pieces of fighting game educational content that exists. Very well done
Ngl this is hands down your best video to date. Well done sir. Also shout outs to Caste
You are now one of my favorite SF6 youtubers, excellent video. Once a player can get past the immediate execution challenges your mental stack gets freed up enough to actively observe the opponent. Then you get to play with the psychology- the actual opponent, and the matches become 1000% more interesting.
10:36 damn CasteHappy went Super Saiyan! Y'all really did go all out on this one. Great cutting, great subject. Bravo 👏
Thanks!
Personally I love videos like this. Game theory and game sense are so important. It really makes the gap big amongst intermediate and high level players. And with the internet being such a good tool. You need to be on your shit.
Diaphone I'm gonna be real: this is the best video you've ever put out.
The example footage, from clean demonstrations that went into good detail, as well as the hype tournament sets showing how these things really do happen - extremely appreciated
I'm really hoping this video pops off, you clearly went above and beyond for it.
You have no idea how ive wanted someone to make this video for the longest time. Finally a have a video i can link to people when this topic comes up
Diaphone always on the goat activity. The editing really made this into something way better than i could have ever done as well.
Another banger from start to finish! This one is special
The editing goes so hard on this video
This is probably the most concise video I've seen about how to balance risk reward with game knowledge and pattern recognition. Very nice
Wow. This might be the most well put together content ive seen for the FGC. Nice work man
Commenting to say this is my favorite video of yours so far. I hope it does very well for you!
Also looking forward to the possible in-depth sequel.
Never thought I'd use Game theory (something I'd use in my economics class) in a fighting game, but it definitely makes sense!
This is actually such a perfect watch for me. One of the specific things I’m trying to work on right now is rotating my defensive and offensive options.
Sometimes it feels like I’m dyslexic for a lack of better words, I can’t read the correct situation almost ever. That being said the new drive reversal wake up has help my characters tremendously, incorporating backdash when I think I should jump.
Thanks for the video it’s nice to have a pro players input on the thought process on rotating wakeup options!!
Thank you for doing this video in only 10 minutes. A nuanced topic covered concisely with excellent editing!
Have already shared and linked this elsewhere after seeing how serious, well-crafted, and thought out this is. It also makes more sense how Diaphone is so good at FGs after watching this. Guy knows how to teach.
I love the game theory concept. I always wanted to learn more about it in general and I appreciate the potential it has for fighting games
Production on this vid look really good, would love to see more like this!
I struggle really, really hard with the guessing part of fighting games. This helps a lot.
Honestly, this is such a good explanation of why I like fighting games. Sick video!
Hi Diaphone, I've never commented on you before but this is one of the best videos I've seen around fighting games. From analysis, to content, to editing, everything is spot on.
I've even shared it with people outside of the FGC, superb job!!
This is really interesting, especially the differences between games and how pros probably naturally develop a way to intuit it. I also think even if you aren't actually calculating it out, using it as a basic framework is useful. Good stuff
thanks for getting into the details about the "rock paper scissors"
you kinda sound like a music teacher stressing the importance of learning the theory, not in a bad way
Melty Blood Type Lumina OST is actually another level of goated, i hear it outside of the FGC too.
Me making 200IQ max EV game theory PhD decisions on every interaction vs a 1400MR WiFi Ken: *BZZZT* aw dangit
(Excellent thought process, communication, and editing on this video. Great work!)
Editing and writing is on point! Felt like watching Core A Gaming.
the editing went crazy on this one, loved the vid
Hey Diaphone, just wanted to comment on how good your thumbnails and editing always are!
the editing is crazy on point here, Dia on his Core-A arc and I dig it
Man you made one of the best fighting game videos I've ever seen. Wow
PLEASE make more videos like this, this was a fantstic insight into game theory applied to FGs
Easy one of your best videos, love this type of FG theorycrafting talk
This is a great video with great edition, this type of videos are the best for the FGC, it helps new and intermediate players while sparking discussion. Props to you both
Genuinely one of the best videos made for SF 6 yet and fighting game strategy as a whole. Diaphone, you really cooked with this one
I love these super technical looks at fighting game decision trees! This was a very fun video for me
Whoever is making these graphics are doing an amazing job
probably the best/most interesting fighting game video/topic ive ever seen in my time on the internet. I work with models like these semi-frequently (I am working on a physics and a math BS) and I've occasionally thought about these games in terms of predictive models like the calculator you used, but to actually see a real calculator applied with some ballpark approximated values is really something else. Fantastic idea.
this is one of the best fighting game videos ever made
Great video, and I like the small feature about Granblue at the end 😉
Love your content! I loved how you covered several games to drive the concept home.
Thanks!
So you're saying I should go gambling to the casino, thank you Diaphone.
I’d love more videos on stuff like Game Theory and other topics like this. Stuff like this levels up the community.
this needs to be in the rending section ASAP. Well put together video man.
Fantastic video. We need more of these in depth topics on intermediate level stuff
whoever edited this for you went crazy! Very good vid!
3:50
THAT was a good joke. I didn’t expect the Legendary Super Saiyan to make an appearance lol
I’ve been thinking about this a lot as a player. When it comes to my main game BBTag I have more game understanding so defending is more so my character/player knowledge. But when I try to transfer risk reward on pressure and defense into say GBVsR. I feel like I’m always wrong or the 3 interactions of damage is negated by 1 opponent interaction. It does give me an analytical way to look at it. And hopefully I’m able to use this as a base to try and get better overall. Thanks for the video dude
Wow, amazing video. The commentary, pacing and editing were all s-tier.
One of the best RUclipsrs in the FGC hands down, arguably THE best. Keep up the great work!
huh, this was really well done. one of my favorite videos from you. excellent analysis and editing.
Awesome, intuitive explanation of introductionary game theory. Thanks Diaphone!
Great video. I think beginners who find this video shouldn't try and overthink the numbers aspect of this but more or less look at this video and think of it as an introduction to what risk-reward is and how to understand thinking about risk-reward.
Wow a well-produced video with an editor. Nice work and I think the topic warrants it.
Hire me to edit next time lol
Amazing video, loved the editing style. Was clear, precise, and made things a lot easier to follow.
This is such a high quality video. It was great, thanks for the info!
This is cool. A great follow up would be about how you can use these kinds of mental calculations to develop your personal in-match head games against opponents. This is a whole aspect of the genre that players rarely get to know about if they can’t get out of bronze or low silver. But understanding this stuff makes watching competitive matches so much more enjoyable. Thank you for this video.
Whoooa, editing on this one was crazy. Love the more analytical content !
Love the editing. Great job.
This is a fantastic video, editing is super clear, fun to watch, and all the points and knowledge is super concise and easy to follow
You went nuts on this video. I really hope to see more of these type of videos, keep it up goat
Gotta say amazing video. I normally just watch your guides, but the editing was great, and while I knew most of this, I learned a bit too.
Its a great video. The concept in it is something that I explained to my friend back then in the sf4 era when I was selling trying to sell them the complexity of fighting games. I told them that no, its much more complicated than rock paper scissor. Its actually rock paper scissor if instead of just 3 options you had 20+ options that instead of flat out beating other actions, they each would have a positive of negative power value attached to them depending on how good or bad they beat or get beaten by other options, and thats JUST for one frame (or to be more fair, one interaction), and just one round of a fighting game can have many, many interactions. This video sums up this concept perfectly !
you unlocked something for me here
The editing in this one is so slick!
I think this video is an extremely comprehensive guide to the more analytical players. I don't entirely agree with the ending statement that this is the "correct way to approach" decision making, but it is a very good outline for it. Overall really good video. Probably one of the easiest to digest I've seen in a while.
I think if there is a followup, I would like to see how OS changes risk vs reward. See how covering multiple options is both a strength and weakness in both offense and defense, stuff like that
Excellent video. Way more useful info in this 10 minutes than in most hour-long videos out there on similar subjects.
Let's go Diaphone!
oh oooh ooooOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH
another banger, as always. i never hesitate to share your stuff with the people i teach. also, your editor is killin it.
Damn this was really well edited. Great job
The fx and sounds on this video are crazy, great work !!
This is what I, and many intermediate players desperately need. A lot of times we autopilot to fuzzy guarding and trying to block on reaction for mix and Oki situations. But it really put a lot of these scenarios into perspective.
game knowledge is so underrated. too many people are needlessly complaining about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING CHARACTER, in Tekken 8 rn. if half of these people spent as much time studying other characters, as they do bitching about Feng, or Jin, or whatever, they’d likely find a new appreciation for both the game as a whole, but also those characters that they once complained about. turns out, every character in the game has fun aspects, and cheese, and character specific counter-play, etc, and through learning their move-sets, you’ll naturally spot the holes, and flaws in the characters design
Editing and structure of the explanantion on this are top-notch, thank you for this!
This kind of decision-making is exactly what Your Only Move Is Hustle reproduces. It is a turn-based fighting, and every turn is a matrix game like you describe!
This is a great video, I like the idea of exploring topics that will make you a better player but aren't really that obvious.
I always struggle with these more abstract concepts, especially since I can't properly get a read on opponents in a FT2 unless they're super obvious.
Great video! The "Expected Damage/Value" is a good way to look at this!
Excellent vid dude, y'all cooked with this one.
This is such an amazing quality vid both in its information and editing. Great job Dia.
this is such a high quality video, wow. awesome editing! and really informative, thanks diaphone
Reminds me of a Core A Gaming video. Information dense, great editing and a joy to watch. Amazing vid!
Damn, that content is great and the editing too !
This video is clean - really informative and entertaining with very visually enjoyable editing
The editing is n i c e for this one
Love this video!
It's nice to have these types of concise videos explaining thought logics with practical examples
One thing you didn't touch on, is that you can improve your game by injecting a source of true randomness into the actions you take. For example, before playing you can assign an action to the second digit of the timer. It's not 100% random but it's close enough to not be easily exploitable
This is a brilliant way to introduce the core of fighting games in a digestible way. The interplay of optimal behavior and predicting how your opponent may deviate from optimal behavior is an endlessly fascinating puzzle to solve.
Would love to hear your thoughts on more advanced game theory in fighting games. Even if you don't run literal mathematical calculations in your head while playing, this way of thinking does an excellent job of describing what your intuition is doing and can help you maximize your advantage in general situations and when you get a specific read on your opponent.
Good deal, man! Thanks for the info! I’m just trying to get better at SF6, so I appreciate your insight!