I turned on Amazon Prime video and saw they had something on Led Zeppelin and it caught my interest. 10 minutes in, it was so bad. The people weren't even teaching me any history or anything interesting about the band. It was a bunch of Bozos talking about why they liked the song Black Dog. It was insufferable to watch. THIS? Infinitely better. If that trash can be on Amazon Prime, I think this is decent enough to be on streaming service. She has excellent taste in acoustics whipping out that GS Mini mahogany. That thing sounds so sweet in person.
@@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1I have a deep and powerful love for that Taylor, and I've never met another GS Mini owner who doesn't feel the same way. It's my forever acoustic.
@@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1 Absolutely - it's the perfect blend of enthusiasm, knowledge, opinion and insight. Something like this would definitely play well on BBC4.
@@fathommusicnzI first found out about the Baby Taylors from listening to Mike Doughty (formerly M Doughty of Soul Coughing fame). He would jump in a rental car with his Baby Taylor after the band broke up - never to be reunited* - and sell burned copies of Skittish - produced by Kramer to put gas in the car to make it to the next gig to make "the Small Rock" all across the US. He started that in the early 2ks. There is something magical about him performing live with just an acoustic. (Baby Taylor or regular size) Because of that magical sound, a Baby Taylor is on my guitar list of still need it. *shockingly, they are now actually reunited for a small US tour. The posters even say "We said it would never happen"
Thank you so much, Nancy, for highlighting the historical and cultural context. That's key to truly appreciating what George Harrison accomplished with this song, and in his career with the Beatles.
A little thanks for the movie HELP! Screenplay by Marc Behm & Charles Wood Story by Marc Behm Without the storyline and screen play of the movie , George may have never picked up a sitar in the first place. Your video has given me a much more complete understanding and appreciation of George's wonderful creativity & talent. Thank you!
Great episode, really enjoyed this. It really is amazing that George was able to make these Indian inspired pop songs that just work. This is an excellent song, although I think Within You and Without You is his best Indian song, I also think it is George's first truly great song. They just add one more dimension to the already multi facetted Beatles catalogue. It's also true that Indian spirituality played an important part in George's life from 1966 right through to his death, these songs were not merely fashionable dabbling in the music of another culture, they were a the start of a genuine engagement of a sincere human being.
The Beatles are the phenomenon that will never go away. I play Sitar mostly because of its exposure to me by George. Plus it’s a fascinating Instrument. The more energy you put into it the more energy it gives back to you. Or should I say Love To You.
I've always wanted a sitar and even bought a Peavey Vypr amp and later a Fender VG guitar because the have simulated sitars in them. I plan on buying a sitar eventually. Any tips on what to look for? I have seen listings from £250 to about £700 (approx $325 to $900 at the current 1.29 conversion rate) With a guitar, I pretty much know what I'm looking at, bit it's hard to recognize a deal from a cheap instrument if you don't know.
People who don’t like the song probably aren’t very used to that type of music, which isn’t a bad thing. It just speaks to how different it is to anything most other bands were writing and recording at the time, even today.
My dad initially felt that the Beatles were kind of a boy band until I suspect around the Help! time period. I know his favorite Beatles record was Rubber Soul while mine was Revolver with RS and Sgt P jockeying for 2nd place depending on the time of day. During my teen years I got into the Blues (maybe because of Zeppelin, not sure) and he said something that meant a lot to me. He said I was glad that I liked other music and not just rock. With the exception of an alergic reaction to Country (post Lary Hagman doing a truck comercial as himself with a JR Ewing accent - I didn't know what pandering was, but I watched I Dream of Jeannie and knew that accent was fake) I like: almost everything else, because he said that.
I think you are the first person I have heard that from... but it's very cool to find someone who has this as their favorite. I don't think any other group has so many songs that have been listed as the one favorite. I think every Beatles song... may be someone's favorite.
I kind of fell in love with “Love You To” back in early September 1976, when I was 13. Before I knew anything about George and his penchant for Indian music. Before I’d ever read anything that anyone had said {or not said !} about the song. Before there was any chance for anyone’s thoughts or opinions to influence me one way or the other. The first words I ever read about it came that December in Roy Carr and Tony Tyler’s 1974 book “The Beatles - An illustrated Record.” It’s a flawed but great book, especially for a 13 year-old Beatle fan that was at the beginning of his Beatle music-loving life. Lots of great photos, all of the album covers, most of them as 12 inch, just like the actual records, and plenty of information and opinion, much of which I’ve never agreed with, even when I knew no better ! This is what was written about “Love You To” in that book: “Harrison, who’d had a bleak composing period at the apogee of Beatlemania, was about to enter the period of his Beatle life when he would have the most influence over the other three - largely because of his discovery and subsequent devotion to Indian mysticism {itself a purist reaction to LSD and drug ideology}. In fact, his Hindi-style songs {on ‘Revolver’ and ‘Pepper’} are weak and embarrassing…...’Love You To’ is Harrison’s first attempt at an Indian style tune - and it suffers for the reasons explained above. Sitars and tablas carry the tune and the rhythm. George, himself an earnest student of Indian musical forms under the tutelage of Ravi Shankar, makes sincere but inept attempts to play the solo instrumental line and reportedly spent all day trying to get both the arrangement and his own part accurate. The rented Indian tabla-wallahs easily outshine him.” I love the word apogee. I’ve sometimes used it but I’ve never come across someone that has ! I noticed even at that young age that these guys had something of a bias against George and his songs, going on to describe “Within you, without you” as a “pretentiously bejewelled vibed-up remake of ‘Love You To’” and “The Inner Light” as a “feeble transcendental tune.” But they weren’t the only ones, Phillip Norman described “Love You To” as “burdened with Indian sitars”, Beatle aide Peter Brown called it “comparatively undistinguished.” In Spignesi and Lewis’ “Here, there and everywhere - the best 100 Beatle songs” ‘Love You To’ is nowhere to be seen - but a track like “Real Love”, which isn’t even really a Beatle track makes the list ! George Martin, when looking back to sitar influences within the Beatles prior to “Within You Without You” doesn’t even mention “Love You To” in his book “Summer of Love - the making of Sgt Pepper” and John, just before he died, cited “Within You, Without You” as the song where George “brought that sound together,” completely sidestepping “Love You To.” But I pretty much loved the song from the first time I heard it and as I’ve gotten older and more informed and listened to so much music from before, during and after that period, I’ve come realise just what a revolutionary song it is. Because while the likes of Brian Jones and Big Jim Sullivan also took up the sitar, neither of them were composers and neither was writing songs with the sitar. George stated that “Love You To” was the first time he’d written a song with the sitar and that he put the guitar on later. That’s significant. And taking it further, it was a spur to John Lennon embracing unusual meters and time-signatures from that point hence. Jimmy Page, who says he acquired a sitar before George, never took it further, while John McLaughlin was hugely influenced by Harrison but applied the Indian leanings to his guitar approach which bore great fruit in the late 60s and early 70s. Fortunately, by the 1990s, writers on the Beatles were able to get off their “John and Paul were the Beatles” fixation {which even John and George Martin contributed to} and look more objectively and honestly at the Beatles as an entire unit and much has been shared about the massive contributions of George and Ringo. On the “Revolver” album, the Beatles took a quantum leap forward and in my opinion, it is one of the first progressive rock albums. We see Byrds-type jangly guitar rock, backwards instruments, social commentary disguised as kids’ songs, cut and paste samples, drug philosophy, much talk of death and dying, twin harmony guitar riffing and sizzling electric leads, jazz instruments playing jazzy sections, classical instruments playing classical parts, a distinct paucity of their usual love songs and a huge shift to their subsequent customary variety of topics, innovative technical processes and much experimentation in taking conventional instruments elsewhere sonically {eg, stuffing a jumper in a bass drum and close-miking it}, Indian instruments and sounds and not only that, a unique integration of east and west. It’s about time George Harrison got his due for the immense steps he took and progress made with this track. You have done a great job in bringing that across. I’d make just one observation ¬> it was pointed out that George was only 23 at the time he composed and recorded the song. That’s something that I noticed a while back about the leading rock/pop songwriters in the 1960s ~ they were so young ! Pete Townshend, Paul McCartney, Ray Davies, John Lennon, Mick Jagger, Bob Dylan, Keith Richards, Gene Clark, John Entwistle, Jimi Hendrix, Pete Brown, Graham Gouldman {not to mention the guys that were writing for Motown} etc; these guys were crafting pretty incredible lyrics and music at pretty young ages. If some of their attitudes and lyrics seem immature, well, they were young men with little experience. But that’s the thing, they don’t sound immature. And that’s why so many young people took so much of what they said and ran with it, regardless of any consequences.
@@grimtraveller7923 I envy you that you remember your sources. My mom used to take me to the neighborhood public library when I was little and at first I spent most of my time in the fiction section, then Greek Mythology (thanks to the original Clash of the Titans because of the similar old movies I watched on the weekends) but then I found out I could read about the people I looked up to and I read books about the Beatles along with books about Abbot and Costello, the Marx Brothers, Harold Lloyd, Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin (yes a lot about comedians). I absorbed the information about the music I was interested in the most. My issue is, at the age I did so, I wasn't thinking about sourcing knowledge or which book I came by this tidbit or that tid bit. All I know is that something will happen (maybe not even related to music) and I have this geyser of information popping into my head, being regurgitated from the multitude of sources I can't even remember. I never really remembered the negativity about George as you pointed out the example in your comments, but a lack of it while the focus was undeniably on John and Paul. There was a lack of information on Ringo too as I always saw him as the funny one in the cartoon series. It now makes me wonder if that's why my Ringo negative Beatles fan friend IS that way. (Chuck, who eff'ed you up???) I just looked at the books as a collection of fun facts that I couldn't stop reading. I wish my musical tastes had been broader at the time because now I listen to a lot more stuff and though I watch documentaries remember things like James Brown would fine members of his band while on stage, to the beat by pointing at them with a smile on his face (as if part of the performance) when they missed one of his spur of the moment cues. However, those tidbits aren't all hard wired from a young age like the Beatles things seem to be.
I enjoyed "The Beatles on Record" a lot too despite it's flaws. They called "Within You Without You" Sgt. Pepper's "nadir" and wrongly attributed "Goodnight" (White Album) to Paul, adding it was a "potential ad that Horlick's never used". Yes, somehow biased in many places, but it was a good book.🙂
Quite probably the best video of the Revolver series, and that is saying a whole lot, since each episode is entertaining, enjoyable, educative, funny, delightful. Astounding!!
My jaw is sore from the constant smiling throughout watching your videos. Your takes and musical communication, and your guest (the woman who demonstrates the sitar and shares her opinion) is just beautiful. I'm a subscriber now! I love it! Keep on being you!
That was such a pleasure. George turned me on a long time ago. By 17 I owned Ravi's boxset "In Celebration" and was completely fascinated by this exotic (to my western ears) music. I couldn't get enough of a 20 min raga. Love You To was such a great start. Perhaps one day we can get a breakdown of The Inner Light and Within You Without You with Shalu. As always, thank you for your content!
Sorry, I forgot to like this video after I got all wrapped up in it… and wandered off into thoughts about all the aspects. But but… let’s not forget that whatever Paul might have been up to, his time spent with any kind of Music, always paid off, too. I Love each member for very good reasons, beyond the usual reasons… I like to think, anyway. I admire you for being so observant… and getting so much from the Beatles, which proves the Magic is still in the air, even now! Oh! Aaaand that you’re really Cool!! ✨😎
Fantastic video! I learned so much about Indian Classical Music and the Sitar that I immediately watched your video again to review what I learned. Thanks for your work!
I came here from vinyl Monday by abbey Indian music was definitely a must listen era for the Beatles sound and overall George could branch out with songs like Love You To
Hey, I just found a cool new show, and it’s yours! 🎶 🎵 You dig deeper into the music than most, I like that. I think the cross blending of musical styles often makes the most interesting and inspiring music. I wish George would have pursued sitar playing further in his solo career……. Having said that, 33 & 1/3 has some beautiful songs on it, “Dear One” in particular……… Having Shalu, the sitar player on, brought it to a new level Have A Splendididid Weekend!
Yes indeed! LSD opened our ears, and George's music opened our minds to Indian music way back in 1966, when I was 14 yrs young... And Nancy illuminates it all in 2024, when I'm pushing 70!!! ☯
The best videos of this type on YT reside here. I'm beyond CHUFFED to have recently discovered this channel! It deserves to grow by leaps and bounds! BTW I have that Beatles Anthology book, too. It makes for heavy reading, doesn't it? 😄
Within You and Without You on Sgt Pepper gave the great album the balance George was sharing and led to his confidence he could write something totally original. I think it may be the costumes used on the album cover that dominated the 1967 Summer Of Love and responded to the challenge the Beach Boys made the year before on "Pet Sounds". The Love Songs dominate the culture that both bands are famous for. A great time for this HS fan from Southern California.
I really like your analysis of this music I love. You have a very friendly and warm presence on camera and you know your subject quite well. Revolver is probably my favorite album of all time and George was my favorite Beatle. Digging your other Revolver videos as well. Cheers.
Great job! A few years ago, and I can't for the life of me find this video again now so I don't remember the pandit's name or the name of the raag, for which I am very sorry, I was listening to said raag on YT and a few phrases jumped out at me for their almost note-for-note similarity to the melody of George's Within You Without You. I commented on this in the comments and someone replied that this raga was one of this particular player's specialities and that he was one of the very sitarists that George had studied with in India! In my various gos at learning to play that Beatles' song--I don't play sitar but I play a bit of Central Asian tanbur and Afghan rabab, among other things--I came to really appreciate how much George modeled that song on the principles of Indian music. I've been told by Indian musicians and listeners alike that George is very fondly remembered and respected in Indian music circles for the work he did in bringing their music to Western audiences, for his seriousness in and respect for the music traditions, and for his actual sitar playing. As an ethnomusicologist I really appreciate what you did in this video. (BTW Vinyl Mondays sent me here :) ).
I learned so much from You and Shalu in this video! I've always loved George's sitar songs and Love To You has always been a favorite. This was extremely fun and interesting. Thanks from a new subscriber (Thanks to Vinyl Monday for sending me your way!)
Fave song, best album - vindicated. At the time there wasn't much cringing, but now it seems even more enjoyable. Your gracious guest would understand.
I really appreciate the fact that you looked into the sitar more. I was born in January of '70, so I was too young to register the little bit of time that they were still together while I was alive. Like you, I can't temember a time when I didn't know their music. Though I had Buddy Holly, Elvis and even a Johnny Horton Rockabilly record, I only had a 45 of Hello Goodbye/I am the Walrus - until I was buying for myself, though I was given an 8-track of Sgt. Pepper at 6 and wore it the eff out. I later found out that the track listing had to be altered to fit the 8 track tape format slightly so I didn't really get the album order correctly until much later. Each of the songs I appreciated more at different times depending on my mindset when listening, but George's Within You and Without You was always special. I am sure it was the uniqueness of the sitar that did that. When I started buying my own music with the little bit of money I made from chores which escalated when I got to Jr. High and could save my lunch money (I could have blown away with a good breeze back then) I bought the music I wanted - Hello Rubber Soul and Revolver (US versions anyway) along with Norwegian Wood and Love You Too. I miss the time I had to spend in those days as it took time to afford each purchase, so I used to devour each release as a whole, then track by track, paying attention to the drums, bass, guitar, vocals and lyrics etc. with each song, which has to be why I enjoy your channel so much. Again these George songs were separate in their specialness even though appreciated as part of the whole album (even though I didn't know yet that the US versions were incomplete). When I found out that Danelectro and later Rogue - who made knock off Hoffner violin basses too - I wanted one, but couldn't afford it. I have now seen a Danelectro for more than 10x the price I saw was being asked... back in my day - when the deer and the dinosaurs roamed. In the last 2 years I put serious thought into buying a real sitar and looked into it, but I was preparing to move to the UK and was already figuring out shipping my guitar collection with me. It ain't cheap. I also figured that with the large Indian population in the UK, I would wait until I got there (here). That didn't stop me from downloading sitar tuning apps on my phone which are musical and much more interesting than guitar tuning apps, trust me! So, yes, I greatly appreciate this episode for so many reasons. I had done some research on them when I was still stateside and knew that the sympathetic strings have to be tuned separately and each tuning has it's own name, but I had no idea that the frets were moveable. 🤯 That is a whole other level of complexity I hadn't even realized! You have a kind and generous friend there to share with you. I also appreciate her opinions on George's songs. I just got to the UK and I'm still getting situated, but I fully intend to get a decent sitar. Did your friend (Shalow is how it is spelled in the auto generated text, but it also spells Beatles as beetles) have any tips on what to look for in a good sitar? 🤓
@@fathommusicnz No problem and thank you for asking her. I am just trying to stem the tide as something you or others in the comments, kick over another fire hydrant gusher of pontification. 🫨😖🤮
I meant to include this in my earlier comment... It was a testament to John and Paul (and George Martin) - that they allowed this song to be a part of the new 1966 album. It was so far from anything that had ever been on a Beatles album that there had to be a lot of trepidation about including it. And while their 1966 album was full of new sounds, new directions from the group... this one was easily (in my view) the least listener friendly - to the fans of the group back when the album was released. They not only allowed this very out of the ordinary track to be a part of the new album - it was among the first 4 tracks... and they gave George THREE songs on the album. This had to be a very big deal for the group (especially for George) back in 1966. I think the amount of support that Lennon-McCartney and Martin showed to Harrison at this point in time... was a tremendous thing. This track could have been nixed by John & Paul or Martin - but instead of possibly excluding it... they welcomed Harrison's new direction as a part of what the band would be going forward. And believe me... this track was disliked by a large amount of the fans back when this album came out. It was a risk to have it on the record. So I say a very big BRAVO to Harrison for coming in with such a very new/different sound... and to John & Paul and Martin for letting him put it out to the world.
Another great analysis. Although you know and love this music, you're very good at stepping back from it to take a look at it from different perspectives. This song has been derided in previous critques, which I think is unfair. You've highlighted the reasons, I believe, this song deserves to be on this record, at the height of the band's creativity. And he had just turned 23. George had referred to his music as Country & Eastern, an appropriate summary of his influences.
I love this! It is only my second video of yours but I am hooked on you. You are head and shoulders above most of the people who do music reactions with not only no musical training, but they also don't bother to learn anything about the artist, the history, the times in which the music was created - drives me mad! I agree this was not cultural appropriation, nor was Graceland (maybe ignorant but respectful in spirit). George had the utmost respect for the sitar and Indian culture and approached it with great humility. Have you ever watched the concert for Bangladesh video? Before he introduces Ravi Shankar, he tells the audience to be quiet and show respect for this venerable artist and genre. Maybe it was pearls before swine, but he did his part.
Brilliant Fathom ! Sensibly descriptive. Love the way you put your musical tutorials together. I would love to hear your own music.Very interested to hear what you have created within your own musical journey and inspiration.
Sure thing! Here's a playlist of the work I've done with my band and as a solo artist. open.spotify.com/playlist/2kpFRFWOate78egjWsMvbP?si=uUq31hezSluMN5NJ3eFw4Q&pi=sQTx31WoTHmDD
Beatle George! This band pioneered a TON of styles of music including raga rock. Apparently, the band jinda blew up in India because songs like this one because it's obvious George really LOVED Indian music.
@@hansvandermeulen5515 After hearing Arab Money from Busta Rhymes, I toyed with the idea of making an Indian based song and collected loops of Tabalas and other things to see how they worked together, but never had the opportunity to work on them. I didn't see it as appropriation, but appreciation. I even got some Punjabi by Satinder Sartaaj to get ideas. Maybe it's better that I didn't as I wouldn't want to be seen as Amos and Andy-ing someone's culture. Thinking about it though, most people from other cultures don't tend to look at things that way unless someone is being obviously disrespectful. I went to predominantly Hispanic schools as a kid - I am a mixed mutt of heritage as many Americans are in the Great American melting pot. Even with my allergies, I watched Roy Clark's performance in the "Country Formerly Known As the Soviet Union" in '88. He did an amazing performance of Malaguena (which he also did on an old episode of the Odd Couple - for the other geezers here like me that remember Jack Clugman and Tony Randall's sitcom) ANYWAY, I went to a friend's house to play guitar and his grandfather came into the room with a huge smile on his face because I played a small part of it - an easy part with some stuff I learned that was kinda but not really Flamenco. (Van Halen led me to that). He spoke a little English and asked if I had heard of Paco De Lucia, which I hadn't, but knew about Manitas de Plata. He wanted me to play some, but I only knew (and know) that one fingering pattern that another friend had taught me and couldn't have played like him if my life depended on it, but he was happy as a clam that this gringo kid (mixed heritage or not) played something that he recognized as being his heritage. Maybe respect makes the difference with George and we all have to learn something somewhere, even if we have to start by learning to play someone else's music. Jimmy Page had trouble with Reggae, but still did what he did, respectfully. That makes me wonder how Dread Zeppelin would be received these days. Where else can you find Reggae covers of Zeppelin and others, with an Elvis impersonator singing all while injecting Zappa style humor in abundance? I never felt it was disrespectful, just people playing the music they loved in such an unconventional way and having so much fun. If they were poking fun, it was at themselves. Maybe the answer to such political questions can be found in Sci-Fi like so many other things... "Your Mickey Mouse is one big stupid DOPE" Jeriba Shigan to Davidge
Excellent piece! I've always felt George doesn't get enough credit for bringing "world" music to the masses. Also, I hope you got a chance to play The Inner Light for your friend. Peace!
I've kept thinking about the issue of cultural appropriation that you raised, I think the reason why I have never thought that of George's Indian songs is because George was not dabbling in the music of another culture but being genuinely transformed by it.
Wow. I guess there isn't a separate musical performance channel for this youtuber? That's a shame, all these incredible instruments and skills to showcase!
Thanks for your interest! I do also post originals and covers on this channel! Here are a few examples: Last year's holiday cover: ruclips.net/video/7hRyVVcTiro/видео.htmlsi=VKnYnFiM7pHAWKlH A song from my last EP: ruclips.net/video/XK8IZMXO3iQ/видео.htmlsi=ZcwSqhjcN3sNyFao A piece from a suite composed last year for my DIY instruments and guitar: ruclips.net/video/_LVCQC-WyDw/видео.htmlsi=mK8XKeCDLocJVjCz Enjoy 😀
The part on appropriation really put it into perspective that the fundamental reason it’s wrong is because “it’s rude” and it’s just crazy to me that we live in such a fair world that people would actually choose to or choose not to do certain things in order to not hurt the feelings of others. As in it doesn’t seem as if it’s a question of if but a question of when, when will all people everywhere be respectful of all peoples lives. But the crazy thing to think after that is how once the earth gets to a certain level of depleted natural resources, the guise of being kind will fall to the justification of being evil in order to survive. So I guess this particular window of history is actually a pretty good one to live in?
do you know anoushka shankar's work nancy? she's capable of giving a modern twist to the music. she introduces herself as the daughter of the famous ravi in a concert and the band are amused: she goes 'well some people might not know'. the sitar: it's almost like the instrument is alive, expectant, as your friend she sits there and talks to itself as she plays. an extraordinary haunting sound. also it stands out completely on the album: now is that good or bad? it adds to the rich mix of the extraordinary recipe that is revolver.it's an exciting sound but i don't think it's one of my favourites quite and when george has a love song he often seems to be have issues and conditions. he must've had powers of persuasion though to say i want us to take this turn also. a video that really stands out in the work on your channel. revolver is bringing out the best in vinyl friday. how do you think the first 4 tracks of revolver hold up against pepper's first 4? track 5 awaits quietly. one of the most gorgeous graceful outpourings of love ever. and that's forever.
Anoushka Shankar is absolutely stunning on sitar. I don't know if you're familiar with Norah Jones' podcast, North Jones Is Playing Along (she gets other musicians onto her show, and they chat and jam on the guest's songs together - great stuff). Anoushka was a guest on one of the episodes, and she does a great job of speaking in more detail about ragas. Then there's the bonus of the episode having that giddy sister-energy thing. Highly recommend. To one of your other points, not to spoil the series' wrap up, but I think that "extraordinary recipe" is a big part of the magic of this album. It shouldn't work, and somehow it's perfection. I would argue that the first four songs of Pepper are sort of glossier and more cohesive (as a grouping, that is) than the first 4 of this one, but I kind of like the scrappy collage effect of Revolver's opening quartet. I think you've also got to look at it in context. After Rubber Soul, the first four on this album are jaw-dropping. After Revolver, the first four on Pepper's are not as staggering. All twelve are, inarguably, fantastic examples of songwriting, in my mind.
@alanclayton9277 " how do you think the first 4 tracks of revolver hold up against pepper's first 4?" As good as Pepper's first 4 are {and they really are}, Revolver's first 4 blow them to Nepal, down to Somalia, back to Nepal and then out to Toronto ! Mind you, the proper "Rubber Soul"'s first 4 do so as well.
@alanclayton9277 "do you know anoushka shankar's work?" Alan, do you know Ananda Shankar's work ? He did a very interesting self-titled album in 1970. He's Ravi's nephew and so Anoushka's cousin. Plays some neat sitar and mixes it up with a rock band on some of the tracks.
If you listen to the BBC radio shows .You will hear Paul say he and John have been listening to Western Classical music and George has been listening to Indian Music that was in 1963.
Sometime around this period, Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin did as series of London concerts titled East Meets West. I have read that this played a role in George’s interest in Indian music. Could this have been during that three-month Beatles sabbatical?
Have a listen to Blue Jay Way and It’s All Too Much, two of George’s most psychedelic songs without sitar though heavily influenced by Indian music imo!
Excellent. A little long in the tooth, but nevertheless very interesting. Can't wait for you to cover Within You, Without You and The Inner Light. I have many friends who dislike sitar music and write off these Harrison songs. Too bad for them. I happen to think that Within You, Without You is the pinnacle of George's lyricism.
Those of you who do not like this song don't get it because it is WAY over your head. You are just like the Hup Hoppers who don't like the Beatles, because the Beatles music is way over their heads.
One myth about the sitar is that you shouldn’t touch it, it’s unbelievably difficult to play and you need to be deep into the Hindu religion. Poppycock. If you have no ambitions to out-Ravi Ravi, it’s a pleasant instrument to delve into. I made my way through “The Saints Go Marching In” in a reasonable amount of time.
You know, as a kid I loved John. Then when I started writing music in earnest, I related most to Paul, and his songs were my favourite. Doing these Vinyl Friday miniseries has actually changed this too - I actually have a greater appreciation for George as well. I genuinely don't know anymore!
I think that too much is made of "cultural appropriation" in music.No one cultural group _owns_ any particular style of music. The notion also overlooks the very important reality that the person taking from the music actually likes the music or they wouldn't be absorbing it into their own music. I use the sitar, dilruba, tablas, dholak, sarod, tampura, sarangi etc and various Indian percussion quite a bit in some of my own music. I do so because I happen to love the sounds of those instruments first and foremost. But I also like classical Indian music so that is bound to have an effect on some of the music I make. By the same token, I don't like Indian singing, but I love the melismatic nature of it. Combined with the melismatic singing in Gospel and Soul, that has a definite effect on the vocal melodies I create and the way the singers will sing whatever lyrics there may be. But I'm neither Indian or American.
Glad to be back and watching another Fathom video. Having been feeling well... but am now "getting better all the time". I was never a big fan of George's Indian music back when it first appeared... but did find it interesting. There were a lot of Beatles fans that did not like it. It was widely believed that "Within You Without You" was placed as the first track on side 2 of Pepper - so people could skip it more easily. I grew to like it more over the years. Your video has definitely added to my enjoyment of the track. I have to ask you about the title of the song ("Love You To"). It has always bothered me. Was it some mistake made when he wrote down the title? Did he mean it to be "Love You Too"..? If not a mistake... then what the heck does it mean..? Love you to.... the moon and back..? Love you to Saturday morning... but then I'm gone..? That title has bothered me for almost 60 years now. Please tell Shalu that I enjoyed her participation in this video very much. Thank you for introducing her to us. I do want to mention that in both the US and Canada... Revolver had 11 tracks (instead of the full 14 that we all see today). Three of John's songs had been used on the previous US Beatles album release titled "Yesterday... and Today" (I'm Only Sleeping", And Your Bird Can Sing" and "Dr. Robert"). So this was the US version of "Revolver"... Side 1 Taxman Eleanor Rigby Love Her To Here, There and Everywhere Yellow Submarine She Said She Said Side 2 Good Day Sunshine For No One I Want to Tell You Got to Get You Into My Life Tomorrow Never Knows This was their last album that had a different track listing in the US. What is absolutely astonishing about the US album... is that George had more songs on it than John did. And George had TWO of the first THREE songs on this LP!! Very happy to see your smiling face and hear your voice again. Thanks so much for doing these wonderful deep dives into this great music.
To me "Love You To" implies I would love you to ... It maps onto the more common response to a given proposition, Love to, meaning I would love to. It sounds weird adding the you but it's the same construction. You're assigning the meaning of to the preposition here in your extrapolations, but I don't think that's the intention.
Great video, but I don't think we should view such exchanges of culture through the lens of appropriation. Far better to think in terms of capital appropriation. I don't think Little Richard had a problem with Pat Boone covering Tootie Fruitie. The issue was that Boone made all the bloody money! The capital too frequently is distributed along racial/cultural lines.
First - wonderful post again!!! One thing that isn't mentioned much is how this song ROCKS. Appropriation? I don't really think it's much of a real thing - not anymore. What about Chuck Berry's first hit - Maybelline? Maybelline is just a remake of of the country standard "Ida Red". Chuck appropriated Ida Red for the much larger culture of Rock and Roll. - yes? Or the music of West African Pop pulling elements from American Pop and Jazz. Is that appropriation? The approach to bass playing heard on Paul Simon's Graceland didn't start in Africa. It started in America with one guy - Jaco Pastorius. Jaco first started being noticed while playing with Pat Metheny. In fact here's a clip of Jaco and Pat backing up Joni Mitchell. -- ruclips.net/video/QEtj1Vc1MnE/видео.htmlsi=yGqpuRRJQ7WoM3Tm -- and Jaco's story: ruclips.net/video/kjqSBU0v6TU/видео.htmlsi=XeHOnjoh_-KH3517. So did those African musicians appropriate from American Jazz? Or how about Champeta music from Columba? Is that appropriating sounds from West Africa? ruclips.net/video/_Os-VtNNc1E/видео.htmlsi=EJXetIWRCcgW-Mqs So I give up on appropriation. The world is much too small.
@davidgagne3569 "The approach to bass playing heard on Paul Simon's Graceland didn't start in Africa. It started in America with one guy - Jaco Pastorius." I don't think that is in the slightest bit true. Bass playing evolved through the 60s with a series of players playing in diverse genres., many of whom did not actually start as bass guitar players {Paul McCartney was one}
@@grimtraveller7923 --- Well, McCartney and Entwistle were instrumental in changing things. As was the invention, and adoption, of the electric bass. But Jaco was a quantum leap forward. If you listen to the two links provided I think it's pretty obvious that Jaco, in particular, had a huge impact on the African guys. Heck, he had a huge impact on everybody. And that "sound" of the band backing Simon on Graceland was nothing new. Six years earlier Talking Heads released Remain In Light. There was a lot of back and forth across the globe musically. Which is one of the reasons I don't buy into the "appropriation" viewpoint.
@@davidgagne3569 “McCartney and Entwistle were instrumental in changing things” Actually, I’m not so sure I’d include McCartney as a game-changing bassist _at the time_. I don’t think he was particularly influential as a bass guitarist in the 60s. He was hugely influential in almost every other arena he entered, but it was much, much later that his talents as a bassist really started to get examined. “As was the invention, and adoption, of the electric bass” I think the invention and adoption of the electric bass guitar was a defining moment in musical history, no less. It has made inroads into just about every genre since its invention and has significantly changed the nature of those genres in a way the guitar hasn’t. “But Jaco was a quantum leap forward” You see, I don’t think Jaco _was_ a quantum leap forward. A tremendous player, without a doubt, but there were a lot of tremendous players by '75/76. Colin Hodgkinson of Back Door was doing things on bass that Jaco wasn’t doing and he was making records well before JP. Stanley Clarke had begun to take the bass guitar into new areas, Bootsy Collins and Larry Graham had a further reaching influence than Jaco Pastorious…..indeed, by the time Jaco came along, the bass guitar was by now recognized as an important instrument in its own right and many influential and original practitioners had emerged. “it's pretty obvious that Jaco, in particular, had a huge impact on the African guys” I don’t doubt that, but African bass players had been moving and shaking long before Jaco Pastorious came along. He added to their musical language. “Heck, he had a huge impact on everybody” Well…..did he ? He influenced a lot of jazzers and proggers, but was his influence as wide as some like to make it seem ? He was a big fish in a big pond but he wasn’t really the shark of the waters. He was a note in the scale as opposed to being _the_ scale. “There was a lot of back and forth across the globe musically. Which is one of the reasons I don't buy into the ‘appropriation’ viewpoint” Totally agree with you there. That’s the thing with popular music over the last 60 or so years, there has been so much to-ing and fro-ing and cross-pollination, giving and taking and experimenting that in reality it makes sense to speak about musical and genre evolution rather than invention and this one or that one almost single-handedly changing things up. Human interaction rarely works that way. Even with Hendrix, yes, he was a bolt out of the blue that initially spooked that coterie of premier English guitar players. But did he really pioneer a new way of approaching guitar ? Look at what had been evolving in the 2 years before his entrance and it may become apparent that there was already something in the wind. He added to it, rather than created it. Jaco, to me, is the same.
@@grimtraveller7923 ---- LOL. Well I disagree with pretty everything you've said. Bootsy had more influence that Jaco??? All one has to do is listen to the links I provided and Jaco's influence on African pop is obvious. McCartney's influence was incorporating melody into his bass lines. BIG influence. Hendrix not being a major influence? I'll leave that to the multitude of guitarists that site him as a major influence.
@@davidgagne3569 “LOL. Well I disagree with pretty everything you've said” You have that freedom. It’s only my opinion. But it’s not an uninformed opinion. “Bootsy had more influence that Jaco???” Yes. In a manner of speaking. And you’ll note, that I said Bootsy *and* Larry Graham. Larry Graham in bass guitar history has had a far further-reaching influence than Jaco Pastorious *ever* did, even if hardly anyone remembers him or has heard of him, and Bootsy, by dint of how close he followed in Graham’s slipstream, stylistically, is the same. As I pointed out previously, Colin Hodgkinson, a barely-known Englishman with the band Back Door, was doing things on bass on record that Jaco wasn’t {and for that matter, things Jaco became famous for} a couple of years before Jaco had even appeared on a record. Now, Jaco’s is the greater influence because Back Door never really got anywhere and didn’t sell many albums and occupy at best, a niche place in rock history. But having heard Back Door, for me, Jaco was not a quantum leap forward. I have their debut album from ‘72 and the way Hodgkinson uses his bass is outrageous. Lead, rhythm, chords etc. Not as sweet as Jaco, but just as revolutionary. And he was there *2 years before*. Going back to Bootsy and Graham, prior to Larry Graham, no one on earth slapped and popped a bass. Within 10 years of Sly and the Family Stone’s emergence in the late 60s, there was hardly a bass player that didn’t at least once on a song. *That’s influence*. To a global market. Bootsy’s way of playing inspired bassists across the funk genre and beyond in such a way that his way of playing is the way of playing funk and funky, even now. It may not say a lot for thousands of funk bassists, but hey, the moral merits aren’t what’s being discussed here. With Jaco, there really isn’t “pre-Jaco” and then he comes along and there is “post-Jaco.” He added to the language of bass playing and was arguably exceptional, but he didn’t change bass playing per sé. “All one has to do is listen to the links I provided and Jaco's influence on African pop is obvious” I’m not arguing against that. But African pop isn’t even that big across the continent of Africa in comparison to Western styles. It may be in sales, I can’t say. But in terms of influence among players {of a variety of instruments} sales really mean very little. Funnily enough, one could argue that Paul Simon was guilty of cultural appropriation with “Graceland.” But I wouldn’t. I think he was a creative musician keeping his music fresh. His journey from rock’n’roll through pop through folk through folk-rock through “singer-songwriter” to world and beyond shows that. I love what George did with Indian music. I also love what Joe Harriott and John Mayer did with it. I love what the Pretty Things and Elmer Gantry’s Velvet Opera did when they got hold of a sitar. I love where Big Jim Sullivan went with Indian music. I love John McLaughlin’s and Jan Hammer’s take on the Eastern musical aesthetic. I totally dig what Aradha have done with their east-west fusion in Christian rock. And so on. I dig the pure stuff and I dig the fusions. I could say the same about most musics, actually.
Was the cultural appropriation segment absolutely necessary? Miley Cyrus/twerking being mentioned in the same video as The Beatles!?!?! C'mon! Interesting to insert here but the lens of 2024 is so much different then the one of 1966 it's kind of silly. Ultimately you can file under 'woke/grievance culture' which did not exist back in 1966 for better or worse. Honestly I think it takes away from the whole as it's somewhat divisive. I've always looked at it as honoring or paying tribute not necessarily exploiting and I'm pretty sure that's what George intended. There is so much cross pollination in music, why can't you just accept the beauty of what George was trying to do? Adding this dampens the spirit of your intention. Did Bill Evans culturally appropriate by playing jazz? etc.... The list goes on and on. Slippery slope my dear. Just my two cents but you opened yourself up for debate.
Stop with the "cultural appropriation" BS. "Cultural appropriation" has been going on since at least 12,000 BC, in art, fashion, language, etc. Everybody has borrowed from everybody, everywhere. Take the Bollywood film industry, for example. (Most) Every film, (most) every story, (most) every piece of music, (most) every film poster....is a direct rip-off of a western film. Without credit or authorization.
I never skip George's Indian songs. Never have, never will.
The fact that Harrison was only 23 is shocking. The sound of East meets West is still thrilling, mind opening & inspiring.
Now I need that RAM t-shirt!
I came for the Beatles, stayed for Fathom and thoroughly enjoyed learning from Shalu
These get better and better. If I was a TV commissioner, you would have your own music documentary series on the strength of this episode
I turned on Amazon Prime video and saw they had something on Led Zeppelin and it caught my interest. 10 minutes in, it was so bad. The people weren't even teaching me any history or anything interesting about the band. It was a bunch of Bozos talking about why they liked the song Black Dog. It was insufferable to watch. THIS? Infinitely better. If that trash can be on Amazon Prime, I think this is decent enough to be on streaming service. She has excellent taste in acoustics whipping out that GS Mini mahogany. That thing sounds so sweet in person.
@@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1I have a deep and powerful love for that Taylor, and I've never met another GS Mini owner who doesn't feel the same way. It's my forever acoustic.
@@fathommusicnz They play like butter too. Lush overtones. The spruce ones are solid too. But mahogany has some warmth/character.
@@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1 Absolutely - it's the perfect blend of enthusiasm, knowledge, opinion and insight. Something like this would definitely play well on BBC4.
@@fathommusicnzI first found out about the Baby Taylors from listening to Mike Doughty (formerly M Doughty of Soul Coughing fame). He would jump in a rental car with his Baby Taylor after the band broke up - never to be reunited* - and sell burned copies of Skittish - produced by Kramer to put gas in the car to make it to the next gig to make "the Small Rock" all across the US. He started that in the early 2ks. There is something magical about him performing live with just an acoustic. (Baby Taylor or regular size) Because of that magical sound, a Baby Taylor is on my guitar list of still need it.
*shockingly, they are now actually reunited for a small US tour. The posters even say "We said it would never happen"
revolver hot chili peppers caught me so off guard i just started cackling. well done
Haha it worked so surprisingly well! I didn't expect that at all!
I got sent here by Vinyl Mondays and I’m so glad. Your musical knowledge is simply fantastic. Thank you.
I also got here from Vinyl Monday by Abbey
Thank you so much, Nancy, for highlighting the historical and cultural context. That's key to truly appreciating what George Harrison accomplished with this song, and in his career with the Beatles.
A little thanks for the movie HELP!
Screenplay by
Marc Behm & Charles Wood
Story by Marc Behm
Without the storyline and screen play of the movie , George may have never picked up a sitar in the first place.
Your video has given me a much more complete understanding and appreciation of George's wonderful creativity & talent.
Thank you!
Great episode, really enjoyed this. It really is amazing that George was able to make these Indian inspired pop songs that just work. This is an excellent song, although I think Within You and Without You is his best Indian song, I also think it is George's first truly great song. They just add one more dimension to the already multi facetted Beatles catalogue. It's also true that Indian spirituality played an important part in George's life from 1966 right through to his death, these songs were not merely fashionable dabbling in the music of another culture, they were a the start of a genuine engagement of a sincere human being.
The Beatles are the phenomenon that will never go away. I play Sitar mostly because of its exposure to me by George. Plus it’s a fascinating Instrument. The more energy you put into it the more energy it gives back to you. Or should I say Love To You.
I've always wanted a sitar and even bought a Peavey Vypr amp and later a Fender VG guitar because the have simulated sitars in them. I plan on buying a sitar eventually. Any tips on what to look for? I have seen listings from £250 to about £700 (approx $325 to $900 at the current 1.29 conversion rate) With a guitar, I pretty much know what I'm looking at, bit it's hard to recognize a deal from a cheap instrument if you don't know.
@@vinceinhouston4338 You’ll need to spend around $1,500 (more or less) for a very good one.
My dad doesn't like this song very much, but I've always loved it.
I knew a lot of people who skipped this song back in 1966.
It was never a favorite of mine... but it was interesting
He probably also likes the BeeGees more than Pink Floyd.
@@nonrepublicrat That is incorrect. He loves Pink Floyd. I've never once heard him even talk about the BeeGees.
People who don’t like the song probably aren’t very used to that type of music, which isn’t a bad thing. It just speaks to how different it is to anything most other bands were writing and recording at the time, even today.
My dad initially felt that the Beatles were kind of a boy band until I suspect around the Help! time period. I know his favorite Beatles record was Rubber Soul while mine was Revolver with RS and Sgt P jockeying for 2nd place depending on the time of day. During my teen years I got into the Blues (maybe because of Zeppelin, not sure) and he said something that meant a lot to me. He said I was glad that I liked other music and not just rock. With the exception of an alergic reaction to Country (post Lary Hagman doing a truck comercial as himself with a JR Ewing accent - I didn't know what pandering was, but I watched I Dream of Jeannie and knew that accent was fake) I like: almost everything else, because he said that.
My favorite Beatles song
I think you are the first person I have heard that from...
but it's very cool to find someone who has this as their favorite.
I don't think any other group has so many songs that have been listed as the one favorite.
I think every Beatles song... may be someone's favorite.
I just found your channel today and I'm absolutely hooked. I can really tell you put a lot of work into this particular video and I appreciated it.
Love your shirt!!!!
Very nice video. Substantial content, neat production, a skilled and relatable presenter.... five stars 👌
I kind of fell in love with “Love You To” back in early September 1976, when I was 13. Before I knew anything about George and his penchant for Indian music. Before I’d ever read anything that anyone had said {or not said !} about the song. Before there was any chance for anyone’s thoughts or opinions to influence me one way or the other. The first words I ever read about it came that December in Roy Carr and Tony Tyler’s 1974 book “The Beatles - An illustrated Record.” It’s a flawed but great book, especially for a 13 year-old Beatle fan that was at the beginning of his Beatle music-loving life. Lots of great photos, all of the album covers, most of them as 12 inch, just like the actual records, and plenty of information and opinion, much of which I’ve never agreed with, even when I knew no better ! This is what was written about “Love You To” in that book:
“Harrison, who’d had a bleak composing period at the apogee of Beatlemania, was about to enter the period of his Beatle life when he would have the most influence over the other three - largely because of his discovery and subsequent devotion to Indian mysticism {itself a purist reaction to LSD and drug ideology}. In fact, his Hindi-style songs {on ‘Revolver’ and ‘Pepper’} are weak and embarrassing…...’Love You To’ is Harrison’s first attempt at an Indian style tune - and it suffers for the reasons explained above. Sitars and tablas carry the tune and the rhythm. George, himself an earnest student of Indian musical forms under the tutelage of Ravi Shankar, makes sincere but inept attempts to play the solo instrumental line and reportedly spent all day trying to get both the arrangement and his own part accurate. The rented Indian tabla-wallahs easily outshine him.”
I love the word apogee. I’ve sometimes used it but I’ve never come across someone that has !
I noticed even at that young age that these guys had something of a bias against George and his songs, going on to describe “Within you, without you” as a “pretentiously bejewelled vibed-up remake of ‘Love You To’” and “The Inner Light” as a “feeble transcendental tune.” But they weren’t the only ones, Phillip Norman described “Love You To” as “burdened with Indian sitars”, Beatle aide Peter Brown called it “comparatively undistinguished.” In Spignesi and Lewis’ “Here, there and everywhere - the best 100 Beatle songs” ‘Love You To’ is nowhere to be seen - but a track like “Real Love”, which isn’t even really a Beatle track makes the list ! George Martin, when looking back to sitar influences within the Beatles prior to “Within You Without You” doesn’t even mention “Love You To” in his book “Summer of Love - the making of Sgt Pepper” and John, just before he died, cited “Within You, Without You” as the song where George “brought that sound together,” completely sidestepping “Love You To.”
But I pretty much loved the song from the first time I heard it and as I’ve gotten older and more informed and listened to so much music from before, during and after that period, I’ve come realise just what a revolutionary song it is. Because while the likes of Brian Jones and Big Jim Sullivan also took up the sitar, neither of them were composers and neither was writing songs with the sitar. George stated that “Love You To” was the first time he’d written a song with the sitar and that he put the guitar on later. That’s significant. And taking it further, it was a spur to John Lennon embracing unusual meters and time-signatures from that point hence. Jimmy Page, who says he acquired a sitar before George, never took it further, while John McLaughlin was hugely influenced by Harrison but applied the Indian leanings to his guitar approach which bore great fruit in the late 60s and early 70s.
Fortunately, by the 1990s, writers on the Beatles were able to get off their “John and Paul were the Beatles” fixation {which even John and George Martin contributed to} and look more objectively and honestly at the Beatles as an entire unit and much has been shared about the massive contributions of George and Ringo.
On the “Revolver” album, the Beatles took a quantum leap forward and in my opinion, it is one of the first progressive rock albums. We see Byrds-type jangly guitar rock, backwards instruments, social commentary disguised as kids’ songs, cut and paste samples, drug philosophy, much talk of death and dying, twin harmony guitar riffing and sizzling electric leads, jazz instruments playing jazzy sections, classical instruments playing classical parts, a distinct paucity of their usual love songs and a huge shift to their subsequent customary variety of topics, innovative technical processes and much experimentation in taking conventional instruments elsewhere sonically {eg, stuffing a jumper in a bass drum and close-miking it}, Indian instruments and sounds and not only that, a unique integration of east and west.
It’s about time George Harrison got his due for the immense steps he took and progress made with this track. You have done a great job in bringing that across.
I’d make just one observation ¬> it was pointed out that George was only 23 at the time he composed and recorded the song. That’s something that I noticed a while back about the leading rock/pop songwriters in the 1960s ~ they were so young ! Pete Townshend, Paul McCartney, Ray Davies, John Lennon, Mick Jagger, Bob Dylan, Keith Richards, Gene Clark, John Entwistle, Jimi Hendrix, Pete Brown, Graham Gouldman {not to mention the guys that were writing for Motown} etc; these guys were crafting pretty incredible lyrics and music at pretty young ages. If some of their attitudes and lyrics seem immature, well, they were young men with little experience. But that’s the thing, they don’t sound immature. And that’s why so many young people took so much of what they said and ran with it, regardless of any consequences.
Loved your entire comment. Thanks for sharing.
Well said.
@@grimtraveller7923 I envy you that you remember your sources. My mom used to take me to the neighborhood public library when I was little and at first I spent most of my time in the fiction section, then Greek Mythology (thanks to the original Clash of the Titans because of the similar old movies I watched on the weekends) but then I found out I could read about the people I looked up to and I read books about the Beatles along with books about Abbot and Costello, the Marx Brothers, Harold Lloyd, Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin (yes a lot about comedians). I absorbed the information about the music I was interested in the most. My issue is, at the age I did so, I wasn't thinking about sourcing knowledge or which book I came by this tidbit or that tid bit. All I know is that something will happen (maybe not even related to music) and I have this geyser of information popping into my head, being regurgitated from the multitude of sources I can't even remember. I never really remembered the negativity about George as you pointed out the example in your comments, but a lack of it while the focus was undeniably on John and Paul. There was a lack of information on Ringo too as I always saw him as the funny one in the cartoon series. It now makes me wonder if that's why my Ringo negative Beatles fan friend IS that way. (Chuck, who eff'ed you up???) I just looked at the books as a collection of fun facts that I couldn't stop reading. I wish my musical tastes had been broader at the time because now I listen to a lot more stuff and though I watch documentaries remember things like James Brown would fine members of his band while on stage, to the beat by pointing at them with a smile on his face (as if part of the performance) when they missed one of his spur of the moment cues. However, those tidbits aren't all hard wired from a young age like the Beatles things seem to be.
I enjoyed "The Beatles on Record" a lot too despite it's flaws. They called "Within You Without You" Sgt. Pepper's "nadir" and wrongly attributed "Goodnight" (White Album) to Paul, adding it was a "potential ad that Horlick's never used". Yes, somehow biased in many places, but it was a good book.🙂
Quite probably the best video of the Revolver series, and that is saying a whole lot, since each episode is entertaining, enjoyable, educative, funny, delightful. Astounding!!
Another Excellent Video 😎🎉
Thank you!
My jaw is sore from the constant smiling throughout watching your videos. Your takes and musical communication, and your guest (the woman who demonstrates the sitar and shares her opinion) is just beautiful. I'm a subscriber now!
I love it!
Keep on being you!
Great Video! I love your musical background. Well done!
The vocal "drone" you mention features in "Rain", too.
Loved this! Shalu needs to get her own RUclips channel
I'll pass that along!
A lot of this video was a lesson on the sitar and Indian music and I'm not complaining.
That was such a pleasure. George turned me on a long time ago. By 17 I owned Ravi's boxset "In Celebration" and was completely fascinated by this exotic (to my western ears) music. I couldn't get enough of a 20 min raga. Love You To was such a great start. Perhaps one day we can get a breakdown of The Inner Light and Within You Without You with Shalu. As always, thank you for your content!
Thanks for watching! 😁
Amazing song,well done my friend!!
Great thanks! My first listening on the sitar was the Help! album. The Chase at the end of the US version of the record. I enjoyed this...
Sorry, I forgot to like this video after I got all wrapped up in it… and wandered off into thoughts about all the aspects. But but… let’s not forget that whatever Paul might have been up to, his time spent with any kind of Music, always paid off, too. I Love each member for very good reasons, beyond the usual reasons… I like to think, anyway. I admire you for being so observant… and getting so much from the Beatles, which proves the Magic is still in the air, even now! Oh! Aaaand that you’re really Cool!! ✨😎
Fantastic video! I learned so much about Indian Classical Music and the Sitar that I immediately watched your video again to review what I learned. Thanks for your work!
Your videos are utterly enthralling .
Sorry if I only have two thumbs.... going up! And a big smile on my face. Loved all of it.
I came here from vinyl Monday by abbey
Indian music was definitely a must listen era for the Beatles sound and overall George could branch out with songs like Love You To
Hey, I just found a cool new show, and it’s yours! 🎶 🎵
You dig deeper into the music than most, I like that. I think the cross blending of musical styles often makes the most interesting and inspiring music.
I wish George would have pursued sitar playing further in his solo career…….
Having said that,
33 & 1/3 has some beautiful songs on it, “Dear One” in particular………
Having Shalu, the sitar player on, brought it to a new level
Have A Splendididid Weekend!
Yes indeed! LSD opened our ears, and George's music opened our minds to Indian music way back in 1966, when I was 14 yrs young...
And Nancy illuminates it all in 2024, when I'm pushing 70!!! ☯
I'm a 73-year old Beatlemaniac and delighted to have just discovered her!
There's several highly talented young 60s music reactors/analysts, @@bevklayman4158 ... But Nancy is my fav, by far!
This one was great!
Great and in-depth. You are very talented, too!
Highly underrated channel
The best videos of this type on YT reside here. I'm beyond CHUFFED to have recently discovered this channel! It deserves to grow by leaps and bounds!
BTW I have that Beatles Anthology book, too. It makes for heavy reading, doesn't it? 😄
Brilliant video about a such an underrated song! Thank you! 🙏🙌
Within You and Without You on Sgt Pepper gave the great album the balance George was sharing and led to his confidence he could write something totally original. I think it may be the costumes used on the album cover that dominated the 1967 Summer Of Love and responded to the challenge the Beach Boys made the year before on "Pet Sounds". The Love Songs dominate the culture that both bands are famous for. A great time for this HS fan from Southern California.
Great , one of most interested show of Yours. Thank You
I really like your analysis of this music I love. You have a very friendly and warm presence on camera and you know your subject quite well.
Revolver is probably my favorite album of all time and George was my favorite Beatle. Digging your other Revolver videos as well. Cheers.
George's sitar music was up front on Norwegian Wood. Really high quality integrating with John's lyric and guitar playing.
Thank you for a remarkable study! ♥
Great job! A few years ago, and I can't for the life of me find this video again now so I don't remember the pandit's name or the name of the raag, for which I am very sorry, I was listening to said raag on YT and a few phrases jumped out at me for their almost note-for-note similarity to the melody of George's Within You Without You. I commented on this in the comments and someone replied that this raga was one of this particular player's specialities and that he was one of the very sitarists that George had studied with in India! In my various gos at learning to play that Beatles' song--I don't play sitar but I play a bit of Central Asian tanbur and Afghan rabab, among other things--I came to really appreciate how much George modeled that song on the principles of Indian music. I've been told by Indian musicians and listeners alike that George is very fondly remembered and respected in Indian music circles for the work he did in bringing their music to Western audiences, for his seriousness in and respect for the music traditions, and for his actual sitar playing. As an ethnomusicologist I really appreciate what you did in this video. (BTW Vinyl Mondays sent me here :) ).
That's fascinating, thank you so much for sharing!
I learned so much from You and Shalu in this video! I've always loved George's sitar songs and Love To You has always been a favorite. This was extremely fun and interesting. Thanks from a new subscriber (Thanks to Vinyl Monday for sending me your way!)
i never skip over this track either.....i mean, it's downright fascinating on so many levels
Your analysis is so interesting, Fathom. Thanks for your videos
Found you through Vinyl Monday and Abby! As a huge Beatles fan I thound this really interesting. You went for it! Excelent!
Just found you🎉❤ this is the best analysis channel ever💫 great work
You have amazing insight! Love your analysis!!
Fave song, best album - vindicated. At the time there wasn't much cringing, but now it seems even more enjoyable. Your gracious guest would understand.
Two fans in the comments have picked at as their favorite. Wow.
That is very cool to see.
I really appreciate the fact that you looked into the sitar more. I was born in January of '70, so I was too young to register the little bit of time that they were still together while I was alive. Like you, I can't temember a time when I didn't know their music. Though I had Buddy Holly, Elvis and even a Johnny Horton Rockabilly record, I only had a 45 of Hello Goodbye/I am the Walrus - until I was buying for myself, though I was given an 8-track of Sgt. Pepper at 6 and wore it the eff out. I later found out that the track listing had to be altered to fit the 8 track tape format slightly so I didn't really get the album order correctly until much later. Each of the songs I appreciated more at different times depending on my mindset when listening, but George's Within You and Without You was always special. I am sure it was the uniqueness of the sitar that did that.
When I started buying my own music with the little bit of money I made from chores which escalated when I got to Jr. High and could save my lunch money (I could have blown away with a good breeze back then) I bought the music I wanted - Hello Rubber Soul and Revolver (US versions anyway) along with Norwegian Wood and Love You Too.
I miss the time I had to spend in those days as it took time to afford each purchase, so I used to devour each release as a whole, then track by track, paying attention to the drums, bass, guitar, vocals and lyrics etc. with each song, which has to be why I enjoy your channel so much.
Again these George songs were separate in their specialness even though appreciated as part of the whole album (even though I didn't know yet that the US versions were incomplete). When I found out that Danelectro and later Rogue - who made knock off Hoffner violin basses too - I wanted one, but couldn't afford it. I have now seen a Danelectro for more than 10x the price I saw was being asked... back in my day - when the deer and the dinosaurs roamed.
In the last 2 years I put serious thought into buying a real sitar and looked into it, but I was preparing to move to the UK and was already figuring out shipping my guitar collection with me. It ain't cheap. I also figured that with the large Indian population in the UK, I would wait until I got there (here). That didn't stop me from downloading sitar tuning apps on my phone which are musical and much more interesting than guitar tuning apps, trust me! So, yes, I greatly appreciate this episode for so many reasons. I had done some research on them when I was still stateside and knew that the sympathetic strings have to be tuned separately and each tuning has it's own name, but I had no idea that the frets were moveable. 🤯 That is a whole other level of complexity I hadn't even realized!
You have a kind and generous friend there to share with you. I also appreciate her opinions on George's songs. I just got to the UK and I'm still getting situated, but I fully intend to get a decent sitar. Did your friend (Shalow is how it is spelled in the auto generated text, but it also spells Beatles as beetles) have any tips on what to look for in a good sitar? 🤓
I see Shalu in other comments. I just wasn't sure. 😃
Next time I see her, I'll ask. Thanks for sharing your story.
@@fathommusicnz No problem and thank you for asking her. I am just trying to stem the tide as something you or others in the comments, kick over another fire hydrant gusher of pontification. 🫨😖🤮
This is in my top 5 Beatles songs.
I meant to include this in my earlier comment...
It was a testament to John and Paul (and George Martin) - that they allowed this song to be a part of the new 1966 album. It was so far from anything that had ever been on a Beatles album that there had to be a lot of trepidation about including it. And while their 1966 album was full of new sounds, new directions from the group... this one was easily (in my view) the least listener friendly - to the fans of the group back when the album was released. They not only allowed this very out of the ordinary track to be a part of the new album - it was among the first 4 tracks... and they gave George THREE songs on the album. This had to be a very big deal for the group (especially for George) back in 1966. I think the amount of support that Lennon-McCartney and Martin showed to Harrison at this point in time... was a tremendous thing. This track could have been nixed by John & Paul or Martin - but instead of possibly excluding it... they welcomed Harrison's new direction as a part of what the band would be going forward.
And believe me... this track was disliked by a large amount of the fans back when this album came out. It was a risk to have it on the record. So I say a very big BRAVO to Harrison for coming in with such a very new/different sound... and to John & Paul and Martin for letting him put it out to the world.
Another great analysis. Although you know and love this music, you're very good at stepping back from it to take a look at it from different perspectives. This song has been derided in previous critques, which I think is unfair. You've highlighted the reasons, I believe, this song deserves to be on this record, at the height of the band's creativity. And he had just turned 23. George had referred to his music as Country & Eastern, an appropriate summary of his influences.
I love the sitar correspondent!
Another song played all on one chord is "Coconut" by Harry Nilsson.
love this video ! so informative
I love this! It is only my second video of yours but I am hooked on you. You are head and shoulders above most of the people who do music reactions with not only no musical training, but they also don't bother to learn anything about the artist, the history, the times in which the music was created - drives me mad! I agree this was not cultural appropriation, nor was Graceland (maybe ignorant but respectful in spirit). George had the utmost respect for the sitar and Indian culture and approached it with great humility. Have you ever watched the concert for Bangladesh video? Before he introduces Ravi Shankar, he tells the audience to be quiet and show respect for this venerable artist and genre. Maybe it was pearls before swine, but he did his part.
Brilliant Fathom !
Sensibly descriptive.
Love the way you put your musical tutorials together.
I would love to hear your own music.Very interested to hear what you have created within your own musical journey and inspiration.
Sure thing! Here's a playlist of the work I've done with my band and as a solo artist. open.spotify.com/playlist/2kpFRFWOate78egjWsMvbP?si=uUq31hezSluMN5NJ3eFw4Q&pi=sQTx31WoTHmDD
Beatle George! This band pioneered a TON of styles of music including raga rock.
Apparently, the band jinda blew up in India because songs like this one because it's obvious George really LOVED Indian music.
@@hansvandermeulen5515 After hearing Arab Money from Busta Rhymes, I toyed with the idea of making an Indian based song and collected loops of Tabalas and other things to see how they worked together, but never had the opportunity to work on them. I didn't see it as appropriation, but appreciation. I even got some Punjabi by Satinder Sartaaj to get ideas. Maybe it's better that I didn't as I wouldn't want to be seen as Amos and Andy-ing someone's culture. Thinking about it though, most people from other cultures don't tend to look at things that way unless someone is being obviously disrespectful. I went to predominantly Hispanic schools as a kid - I am a mixed mutt of heritage as many Americans are in the Great American melting pot. Even with my allergies, I watched Roy Clark's performance in the "Country Formerly Known As the Soviet Union" in '88. He did an amazing performance of Malaguena (which he also did on an old episode of the Odd Couple - for the other geezers here like me that remember Jack Clugman and Tony Randall's sitcom) ANYWAY, I went to a friend's house to play guitar and his grandfather came into the room with a huge smile on his face because I played a small part of it - an easy part with some stuff I learned that was kinda but not really Flamenco. (Van Halen led me to that). He spoke a little English and asked if I had heard of Paco De Lucia, which I hadn't, but knew about Manitas de Plata. He wanted me to play some, but I only knew (and know) that one fingering pattern that another friend had taught me and couldn't have played like him if my life depended on it, but he was happy as a clam that this gringo kid (mixed heritage or not) played something that he recognized as being his heritage. Maybe respect makes the difference with George and we all have to learn something somewhere, even if we have to start by learning to play someone else's music. Jimmy Page had trouble with Reggae, but still did what he did, respectfully. That makes me wonder how Dread Zeppelin would be received these days. Where else can you find Reggae covers of Zeppelin and others, with an Elvis impersonator singing all while injecting Zappa style humor in abundance? I never felt it was disrespectful, just people playing the music they loved in such an unconventional way and having so much fun. If they were poking fun, it was at themselves.
Maybe the answer to such political questions can be found in Sci-Fi like so many other things...
"Your Mickey Mouse is one big stupid DOPE" Jeriba Shigan to Davidge
Excellent piece! I've always felt George doesn't get enough credit for bringing "world" music to the masses. Also, I hope you got a chance to play The Inner Light for your friend. Peace!
I like your style! Abby sent me!
I've kept thinking about the issue of cultural appropriation that you raised, I think the reason why I have never thought that of George's Indian songs is because George was not dabbling in the music of another culture but being genuinely transformed by it.
Wow.
I guess there isn't a separate musical performance channel for this youtuber? That's a shame, all these incredible instruments and skills to showcase!
Thanks for your interest! I do also post originals and covers on this channel! Here are a few examples:
Last year's holiday cover: ruclips.net/video/7hRyVVcTiro/видео.htmlsi=VKnYnFiM7pHAWKlH
A song from my last EP:
ruclips.net/video/XK8IZMXO3iQ/видео.htmlsi=ZcwSqhjcN3sNyFao
A piece from a suite composed last year for my DIY instruments and guitar:
ruclips.net/video/_LVCQC-WyDw/видео.htmlsi=mK8XKeCDLocJVjCz
Enjoy 😀
One of the most revolutionary Beatles songs...maybe the beginning of World Music as a genre. I've always loved this one.
The part on appropriation really put it into perspective that the fundamental reason it’s wrong is because “it’s rude” and it’s just crazy to me that we live in such a fair world that people would actually choose to or choose not to do certain things in order to not hurt the feelings of others. As in it doesn’t seem as if it’s a question of if but a question of when, when will all people everywhere be respectful of all peoples lives. But the crazy thing to think after that is how once the earth gets to a certain level of depleted natural resources, the guise of being kind will fall to the justification of being evil in order to survive. So I guess this particular window of history is actually a pretty good one to live in?
Ravi Shankar at Monterey - incredible.
0:40 No need to convince ME.. I’m right there with you.. nevertheless, I love watching and learning from you
Much better than "Within You, Without You."
Some of the tracks on George's Wonderwall soundtrack album sound like he's using these Indian modes. One called Red Lady Too is a good example.
do you know anoushka shankar's work nancy? she's capable of giving a modern twist to the music. she introduces herself as the daughter of the famous ravi in a concert and the band are amused: she goes 'well some people might not know'.
the sitar: it's almost like the instrument is alive, expectant, as your friend she sits there and talks to itself as she plays. an extraordinary haunting sound. also it stands out completely on the album: now is that good or bad? it adds to the rich mix of the extraordinary recipe that is revolver.it's an exciting sound but i don't think it's one of my favourites quite and when george has a love song he often seems to be have issues and conditions. he must've had powers of persuasion though to say i want us to take this turn also.
a video that really stands out in the work on your channel. revolver is bringing out the best in vinyl friday. how do you think the first 4 tracks of revolver hold up against pepper's first 4?
track 5 awaits quietly. one of the most gorgeous graceful outpourings of love ever. and that's forever.
Anoushka Shankar is absolutely stunning on sitar. I don't know if you're familiar with Norah Jones' podcast, North Jones Is Playing Along (she gets other musicians onto her show, and they chat and jam on the guest's songs together - great stuff). Anoushka was a guest on one of the episodes, and she does a great job of speaking in more detail about ragas. Then there's the bonus of the episode having that giddy sister-energy thing. Highly recommend.
To one of your other points, not to spoil the series' wrap up, but I think that "extraordinary recipe" is a big part of the magic of this album. It shouldn't work, and somehow it's perfection.
I would argue that the first four songs of Pepper are sort of glossier and more cohesive (as a grouping, that is) than the first 4 of this one, but I kind of like the scrappy collage effect of Revolver's opening quartet. I think you've also got to look at it in context. After Rubber Soul, the first four on this album are jaw-dropping. After Revolver, the first four on Pepper's are not as staggering. All twelve are, inarguably, fantastic examples of songwriting, in my mind.
@@fathommusicnz giddy sister energy thing, where have we seen that before 🤔
scrappy collage effect is appropriate given the cover art.
@alanclayton9277 Ha, the cover art hadn't even occurred to me. I'll have to work that in somewhere...
@alanclayton9277
" how do you think the first 4 tracks of revolver hold up against pepper's first 4?"
As good as Pepper's first 4 are {and they really are}, Revolver's first 4 blow them to Nepal, down to Somalia, back to Nepal and then out to Toronto ! Mind you, the proper "Rubber Soul"'s first 4 do so as well.
@alanclayton9277
"do you know anoushka shankar's work?"
Alan, do you know Ananda Shankar's work ? He did a very interesting self-titled album in 1970. He's Ravi's nephew and so Anoushka's cousin. Plays some neat sitar and mixes it up with a rock band on some of the tracks.
If you listen to the BBC radio shows .You will hear Paul say he and John have been listening to Western Classical music and George has been listening to Indian Music that was in 1963.
Sometime around this period, Ravi Shankar and Yehudi Menuhin did as series of London concerts titled East Meets West. I have read that this played a role in George’s interest in Indian music. Could this have been during that three-month Beatles sabbatical?
Have a listen to Blue Jay Way and It’s All Too Much, two of George’s most psychedelic songs without sitar though heavily influenced by Indian music imo!
Excellent. A little long in the tooth, but nevertheless very interesting. Can't wait for you to cover Within You, Without You and The Inner Light. I have many friends who dislike sitar music and write off these Harrison songs. Too bad for them. I happen to think that Within You, Without You is the pinnacle of George's lyricism.
You said it! Those songs by George are near the pinnacle of the Beatles themselves, for me.
I hope that I'll get to do The Inner Light as well. Beautiful song.
@@fathommusicnz - You should do whatever songs your heart wants to do. Just call it a "Fathom birthday special".
Those of you who do not like this song don't get it because it is WAY over your head. You are just like the Hup Hoppers who don't like the Beatles, because the Beatles music is way over their heads.
One myth about the sitar is that you shouldn’t touch it, it’s unbelievably difficult to play and you need to be deep into the Hindu religion. Poppycock. If you have no ambitions to out-Ravi Ravi, it’s a pleasant instrument to delve into. I made my way through “The Saints Go Marching In” in a reasonable amount of time.
Where did you get that RAM shirt, I must know. Also great video as always!
Love your videos! Was wondering…is George your favorite Beatle?
You know, as a kid I loved John. Then when I started writing music in earnest, I related most to Paul, and his songs were my favourite. Doing these Vinyl Friday miniseries has actually changed this too - I actually have a greater appreciation for George as well. I genuinely don't know anymore!
@@fathommusicnz - Love this answer, Nancy.
I think that too much is made of "cultural appropriation" in music.No one cultural group _owns_ any particular style of music. The notion also overlooks the very important reality that the person taking from the music actually likes the music or they wouldn't be absorbing it into their own music.
I use the sitar, dilruba, tablas, dholak, sarod, tampura, sarangi etc and various Indian percussion quite a bit in some of my own music. I do so because I happen to love the sounds of those instruments first and foremost. But I also like classical Indian music so that is bound to have an effect on some of the music I make. By the same token, I don't like Indian singing, but I love the melismatic nature of it. Combined with the melismatic singing in Gospel and Soul, that has a definite effect on the vocal melodies I create and the way the singers will sing whatever lyrics there may be.
But I'm neither Indian or American.
One of my favourite Beatle songs, thanks for covering it. Appreciate the cultural apropriation part of the video too, important discussion to have.
Glad to be back and watching another Fathom video. Having been feeling well... but am now "getting better all the time".
I was never a big fan of George's Indian music back when it first appeared... but did find it interesting. There were a lot of Beatles fans that did not like it. It was widely believed that "Within You Without You" was placed as the first track on side 2 of Pepper - so people could skip it more easily.
I grew to like it more over the years. Your video has definitely added to my enjoyment of the track.
I have to ask you about the title of the song ("Love You To"). It has always bothered me. Was it some mistake made when he wrote down the title? Did he mean it to be "Love You Too"..? If not a mistake... then what the heck does it mean..? Love you to.... the moon and back..? Love you to Saturday morning... but then I'm gone..? That title has bothered me for almost 60 years now.
Please tell Shalu that I enjoyed her participation in this video very much. Thank you for introducing her to us.
I do want to mention that in both the US and Canada... Revolver had 11 tracks (instead of the full 14 that we all see today). Three of John's songs had been used on the previous US Beatles album release titled "Yesterday... and Today" (I'm Only Sleeping", And Your Bird Can Sing" and "Dr. Robert"). So this was the US version of "Revolver"...
Side 1
Taxman
Eleanor Rigby
Love Her To
Here, There and Everywhere
Yellow Submarine
She Said She Said
Side 2
Good Day Sunshine
For No One
I Want to Tell You
Got to Get You Into My Life
Tomorrow Never Knows
This was their last album that had a different track listing in the US.
What is absolutely astonishing about the US album... is that George had more songs on it than John did.
And George had TWO of the first THREE songs on this LP!!
Very happy to see your smiling face and hear your voice again. Thanks so much for doing these wonderful deep dives into this great music.
So glad you're feeling better! Welcome back.
To me "Love You To" implies I would love you to ...
It maps onto the more common response to a given proposition, Love to, meaning I would love to. It sounds weird adding the you but it's the same construction. You're assigning the meaning of to the preposition here in your extrapolations, but I don't think that's the intention.
Is "She said She said" in Lydian?.
Abigail sent me.
Great video, but I don't think we should view such exchanges of culture through the lens of appropriation. Far better to think in terms of capital appropriation. I don't think Little Richard had a problem with Pat Boone covering Tootie Fruitie. The issue was that Boone made all the bloody money! The capital too frequently is distributed along racial/cultural lines.
First - wonderful post again!!!
One thing that isn't mentioned much is how this song ROCKS.
Appropriation? I don't really think it's much of a real thing - not anymore. What about Chuck Berry's first hit - Maybelline? Maybelline is just a remake of of the country standard "Ida Red". Chuck appropriated Ida Red for the much larger culture of Rock and Roll. - yes?
Or the music of West African Pop pulling elements from American Pop and Jazz. Is that appropriation? The approach to bass playing heard on Paul Simon's Graceland didn't start in Africa. It started in America with one guy - Jaco Pastorius. Jaco first started being noticed while playing with Pat Metheny. In fact here's a clip of Jaco and Pat backing up Joni Mitchell. -- ruclips.net/video/QEtj1Vc1MnE/видео.htmlsi=yGqpuRRJQ7WoM3Tm -- and Jaco's story: ruclips.net/video/kjqSBU0v6TU/видео.htmlsi=XeHOnjoh_-KH3517. So did those African musicians appropriate from American Jazz?
Or how about Champeta music from Columba? Is that appropriating sounds from West Africa? ruclips.net/video/_Os-VtNNc1E/видео.htmlsi=EJXetIWRCcgW-Mqs
So I give up on appropriation. The world is much too small.
@davidgagne3569
"The approach to bass playing heard on Paul Simon's Graceland didn't start in Africa. It started in America with one guy - Jaco Pastorius."
I don't think that is in the slightest bit true. Bass playing evolved through the 60s with a series of players playing in diverse genres., many of whom did not actually start as bass guitar players {Paul McCartney was one}
@@grimtraveller7923 --- Well, McCartney and Entwistle were instrumental in changing things. As was the invention, and adoption, of the electric bass.
But Jaco was a quantum leap forward. If you listen to the two links provided I think it's pretty obvious that Jaco, in particular, had a huge impact on the African guys. Heck, he had a huge impact on everybody.
And that "sound" of the band backing Simon on Graceland was nothing new.
Six years earlier Talking Heads released Remain In Light. There was a lot of back and forth across the globe musically. Which is one of the reasons I don't buy into the "appropriation" viewpoint.
@@davidgagne3569
“McCartney and Entwistle were instrumental in changing things”
Actually, I’m not so sure I’d include McCartney as a game-changing bassist _at the time_. I don’t think he was particularly influential as a bass guitarist in the 60s. He was hugely influential in almost every other arena he entered, but it was much, much later that his talents as a bassist really started to get examined.
“As was the invention, and adoption, of the electric bass”
I think the invention and adoption of the electric bass guitar was a defining moment in musical history, no less. It has made inroads into just about every genre since its invention and has significantly changed the nature of those genres in a way the guitar hasn’t.
“But Jaco was a quantum leap forward”
You see, I don’t think Jaco _was_ a quantum leap forward. A tremendous player, without a doubt, but there were a lot of tremendous players by '75/76. Colin Hodgkinson of Back Door was doing things on bass that Jaco wasn’t doing and he was making records well before JP. Stanley Clarke had begun to take the bass guitar into new areas, Bootsy Collins and Larry Graham had a further reaching influence than Jaco Pastorious…..indeed, by the time Jaco came along, the bass guitar was by now recognized as an important instrument in its own right and many influential and original practitioners had emerged.
“it's pretty obvious that Jaco, in particular, had a huge impact on the African guys”
I don’t doubt that, but African bass players had been moving and shaking long before Jaco Pastorious came along. He added to their musical language.
“Heck, he had a huge impact on everybody”
Well…..did he ? He influenced a lot of jazzers and proggers, but was his influence as wide as some like to make it seem ? He was a big fish in a big pond but he wasn’t really the shark of the waters. He was a note in the scale as opposed to being _the_ scale.
“There was a lot of back and forth across the globe musically. Which is one of the reasons I don't buy into the ‘appropriation’ viewpoint”
Totally agree with you there. That’s the thing with popular music over the last 60 or so years, there has been so much to-ing and fro-ing and cross-pollination, giving and taking and experimenting that in reality it makes sense to speak about musical and genre evolution rather than invention and this one or that one almost single-handedly changing things up. Human interaction rarely works that way. Even with Hendrix, yes, he was a bolt out of the blue that initially spooked that coterie of premier English guitar players. But did he really pioneer a new way of approaching guitar ? Look at what had been evolving in the 2 years before his entrance and it may become apparent that there was already something in the wind. He added to it, rather than created it. Jaco, to me, is the same.
@@grimtraveller7923 ---- LOL. Well I disagree with pretty everything you've said. Bootsy had more influence that Jaco???
All one has to do is listen to the links I provided and Jaco's influence on African pop is obvious.
McCartney's influence was incorporating melody into his bass lines. BIG influence.
Hendrix not being a major influence? I'll leave that to the multitude of guitarists that site him as a major influence.
@@davidgagne3569
“LOL. Well I disagree with pretty everything you've said”
You have that freedom. It’s only my opinion.
But it’s not an uninformed opinion.
“Bootsy had more influence that Jaco???”
Yes.
In a manner of speaking. And you’ll note, that I said Bootsy *and* Larry Graham. Larry Graham in bass guitar history has had a far further-reaching influence than Jaco Pastorious *ever* did, even if hardly anyone remembers him or has heard of him, and Bootsy, by dint of how close he followed in Graham’s slipstream, stylistically, is the same.
As I pointed out previously, Colin Hodgkinson, a barely-known Englishman with the band Back Door, was doing things on bass on record that Jaco wasn’t {and for that matter, things Jaco became famous for} a couple of years before Jaco had even appeared on a record. Now, Jaco’s is the greater influence because Back Door never really got anywhere and didn’t sell many albums and occupy at best, a niche place in rock history. But having heard Back Door, for me, Jaco was not a quantum leap forward. I have their debut album from ‘72 and the way Hodgkinson uses his bass is outrageous. Lead, rhythm, chords etc. Not as sweet as Jaco, but just as revolutionary. And he was there *2 years before*.
Going back to Bootsy and Graham, prior to Larry Graham, no one on earth slapped and popped a bass. Within 10 years of Sly and the Family Stone’s emergence in the late 60s, there was hardly a bass player that didn’t at least once on a song.
*That’s influence*. To a global market.
Bootsy’s way of playing inspired bassists across the funk genre and beyond in such a way that his way of playing is the way of playing funk and funky, even now. It may not say a lot for thousands of funk bassists, but hey, the moral merits aren’t what’s being discussed here.
With Jaco, there really isn’t “pre-Jaco” and then he comes along and there is “post-Jaco.” He added to the language of bass playing and was arguably exceptional, but he didn’t change bass playing per sé.
“All one has to do is listen to the links I provided and Jaco's influence on African pop is obvious”
I’m not arguing against that. But African pop isn’t even that big across the continent of Africa in comparison to Western styles. It may be in sales, I can’t say. But in terms of influence among players {of a variety of instruments} sales really mean very little.
Funnily enough, one could argue that Paul Simon was guilty of cultural appropriation with “Graceland.”
But I wouldn’t. I think he was a creative musician keeping his music fresh. His journey from rock’n’roll through pop through folk through folk-rock through “singer-songwriter” to world and beyond shows that.
I love what George did with Indian music. I also love what Joe Harriott and John Mayer did with it. I love what the Pretty Things and Elmer Gantry’s Velvet Opera did when they got hold of a sitar. I love where Big Jim Sullivan went with Indian music. I love John McLaughlin’s and Jan Hammer’s take on the Eastern musical aesthetic. I totally dig what Aradha have done with their east-west fusion in Christian rock. And so on. I dig the pure stuff and I dig the fusions. I could say the same about most musics, actually.
You’ve just ruined everything with the chillis mash up
Was the cultural appropriation segment absolutely necessary? Miley Cyrus/twerking being mentioned in the same video as The Beatles!?!?! C'mon! Interesting to insert here but the lens of 2024 is so much different then the one of 1966 it's kind of silly. Ultimately you can file under 'woke/grievance culture' which did not exist back in 1966 for better or worse. Honestly I think it takes away from the whole as it's somewhat divisive. I've always looked at it as honoring or paying tribute not necessarily exploiting and I'm pretty sure that's what George intended. There is so much cross pollination in music, why can't you just accept the beauty of what George was trying to do? Adding this dampens the spirit of your intention. Did Bill Evans culturally appropriate by playing jazz? etc.... The list goes on and on. Slippery slope my dear. Just my two cents but you opened yourself up for debate.
Stop with the "cultural appropriation" BS.
"Cultural appropriation" has been going on since at least 12,000 BC, in art, fashion, language, etc.
Everybody has borrowed from everybody, everywhere.
Take the Bollywood film industry, for example. (Most) Every film, (most) every story, (most) every piece of music, (most) every film poster....is a direct rip-off of a western film. Without credit or authorization.