Sal, Ethan and Ben dressing alike but kinda different, with the Three Jokers dressing alike but kinda different in the background... that's an aesthetic on it's own.
Whether it’s intentional or not, its an excellent theme and an interesting atmosphere for the story. I’ve been watching the channel for years now, and there’s always brilliance throughout the shows on top of the fun coverage of all of these books- largely- no, mostly, due to the ComicPop cast, so cheers to all of them
@jabezcreed Ik this is an old comment, but I just wanna say personally I like how it goes from clean shaven Ethan, Sal with a small beard, all the way to Ben. That's just a cool trio synergy imo
I have no proof for this, but I think the raccoon bit might be related to that time Alan Moore compared Geoff Johns to a raccoon going through his trash.
@Why Do I Even Look At The Comments it was back when blackest night came out and he was talking about how annoyed he was about the comic industry and how they've all run out of ideas and how they keep having to go back and recycle ideas especially ones hes done and how it's like raccoons going through the trash.
Batman: "I can't believe you killed the Joker, Jason. I trusted you." Jason: "Bruce, I literally just fed Gaggy to a shark." Batman: "Who? Never heard of him."
I really wanted to see more with criminal joker. The implication that I got was that these three jokers represented the different eras of the joker: criminal was the original one from the golden age, clown was silver/bronze age goofy joker, and the comedian was the modern age. Also too, if you look at the protagonist used, each one kinda has a personal connection to each. The comedian shot batgirl. The clown killed Jason. And the criminal has been the one fighting Batman since the beginning. I get everyone loves the killing joke joker, but I was really hoping the criminal would be the one to come out of this
What I've learned is that: Jim Gordon is a bad detective, barbara Gordon is equally bad at disguises, and Batman asks really bad questions when given the chance to ask a magical piece of furniture a question. Oh, and also I've learned that at least one of the three jokers has a CDL. Good for him. We have a truck driver shortage in this country. I finally made it to the end of the video, and I've also learned that Batgirl has experienced what I assume every woman experiences, which is that you try to be emotionally available and supportive to someone you care about, and that person thinks that you want a boyfriend. Good job, Jason.
The idea that Joker is just an identity used by multiple different people and that you never know which one is behind what plot sounds interesting. But it also feels like it makes Joker less unique. In a way I think I like the idea that he is just one crazy guy who routinely reinvents himself is better.
You know, I sometimes rag on Alan Moore for being crabby over ideas of his being utilized later (Blackest Knight) when he himself uses other creators’ work for his comics, but in this case...it really feels like it’s time for DC to stop rehashing The Killing Joke.
There are two classic comic stories that DC should, but never will, leave alone. The Killing Joke and Watchman. With that in mind, I'd say Moore is 100% justified in his grumpiness.
In Batman's defence, the writers and artists have been very inconsistent in how the Joker both looks and acts, so I'm surprised Batman recognises anyone ever.
But Batman does know who the joker is unless I read it wrong he always knew who the joker was cause at the end of the story batman hints at the real joker the one from the killing joke.
@@megamanzeroist Wait. So this storyline is precluded by Batman asking the Mobius Chair what the Joker's real name is, and it ends with the reveal he knew the Joker's real name a week after they met? I'm really getting tired of the comic book industry setting up events before they even plan them out. Remember how before Doomsday Clock, the Superman comics showed that Jor-El had been rescued by Doctor Manhattan and brought to earth? And how actual Doomsday Clock made it clear that's not what happened in the slightest? Because they wrote the former to tease the latter before they even knew what the latter's story was gonna be?
Joker beats Jason with a Crowbar then kills him with an explosion = Kills Jason with a crowbar and left in a shallow grave. Ben Kenobi: So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
*Alan Moore:* No one knows who Joker is including Joker. Here's a possible origin but let's heavily imply that Joker is making it up and pulling it out his ass and he has 20 different origins on the Back-Burner because the Joker is better if he has no origin. *Geoff Johns:* No the Killing Joke origin is what happened. Here's the the Chemicals, here's the real living Family, here's batman confirming it happend by establishing he already knows this. But its okay if this makes people mad because I said that it doesn't matter and if you think it matters then you're taking this too seriously.
I do like that Joker was the one who "helped" Batman. Because no matter what, Batman will be conflicted. He managed to deal with his parent's killer, but only because of the Joker. It's something bittersweet. Exactly what Joker would do to piss Batman off
I love that it introduces the idea that both the Joker and Batman know each other's identities but it doesn't matter to either of them. I think that turned a lot of people off from the book but I personally think it is it's saving grace aside from the art.
@@jaytheartman610 I agree completely. I actually did kinda like the Batgirl/Red Hood stuff but when I finished issue no.3 I was just kinda like 😐Well that was a thing wasn’t it
Yes! The art is gorgeous! But the story could've been better. My problem is how Johns makes the Joker's origin known. He was the failed comedian. Personally, I prefer the Joker's origin to be a complete mystery. Johns COMPLETELY missed the point. You're not supposed to know his origin. The idea is that the Joker could've been anyone. A Red Hood, a mobster, a stand-up comic, etc.
I remember Gaggy, he showed up in Paul Dini’s Gotham City Sirens series, he wanted revenge on Harley for taking his place as Joker’s number 2... it was a fun story in a cool series, definitely recommend
I'd love to see more Gaggy, honestly. He was around several decades before Harley Quinn. And with Punchline around, that could make things more interesting.
@@idongesitusen5764 no, they covered it on their "Off the Rack" series when the issues were coming out one by one. They never talked about it in Back Issues.
I like to think that this happened right after darkseid war, that way i can chalk the complete disregard of Jason's growth over the years up to just "being near his dad still brings out that side of him"
But that "growth" Is lame if you think about it. Like he kills bad guys why wouldn't he ever kill the guy who literally bludgeoned him to death with a crowbar?
@@ridge825 we can go even further than that, like since his whole shtick is basically BatPunisher then Batman and the others shouldn’t even want anything to do with him instead of just keeping him around as the rebellious/ bad boy son/brother
@@mikesmith145 My problem is also there is no consistency among the writers about his character sometimes he's a anti hero, sometimes he's a villain and sometimes he's a good guy
Pros: The Art. Cons: The Killing Joke retconned Death in the family retconned Jokers origin retconned Batman's origin retconned (again) Plus Joker fatigue The book is full of cool drawings more than anything else.
That’s kinda the same as the current Legion of Superheroes title, they even had 2 issues where a different artist did each page. Amazing art for a pointless story.
I mean, this is Black Label and not in continuity right? So why does it matter what's retconned because that's not being taken forward for the main universe.
I think there is a GREAT story in this. I wish the book wasn’t about there being three jokers and focused more on Joker healing the Joe Chill wound. I thought that part of the book was great and was waaayyy more compelling than the pointless three jokers plot. As a big fan of most things Johns has written, this is probably the most disappointing
I kind of interpreted it as Joker helping Batman get over Chill as a means to wound Batman. Since Joker helped him deal with his trauma, it causes Bruce pain because his greatest nemesis is the one who fixed everything.
I really like how they read it and make fun of it but still respect the more interesting and salient parts of the story. Sal also doesn’t overdo the reading like I sometimes feel channels like Comicstorian do or underdo the reading like Films comics explained. I’ve only ever watched their podcast style content with comicstorian but I think I’m really into this channel
@@quizmo1000 but what does that mean for the other two jokers? What are their story's? Who were they? It tells is Jack especially about the clown joker
@@quizmo1000 ah I see, so the plan was to ask a question that nobody's asked before (which fair enough I guess. Good job writers) that question being "what if there were 3 jokers?" Then the answer to that question provided in the story is "shut up it's what you remember again, go away."
@@quizmo1000 Which sucks btw. Joker not having an official backstory is what makes him so interesting, or at least it's one of the most interesting things. Establishing any one story as the "definite" Joker origin sucks major ass.
I liked Batman finally coming to terms with Joe Chill. It seems appropriate to have Joker be the impetus for that. Over all it seems a decently crafted story with absolutely beautiful art
This story was hyped to be some BIG story but it ended being a much smaller, much personal story with amazing art. I really enjoyed and appreciated it 👌🏼
Really seems like this story wouldn't be so awkward if it had come out in time. it's also kinda funny that this story - aside from the Joe Chill stuff - only really serves to bring the Three Jokers "situation" back to just one Joker.
The conversation about Bruce just calling Superman reminded me of the awesome scene in Red Robin where Tim says to Ra’s Al Ghul “I’m not Batman. I have friends.” And then all of the Titans show up 😂
I was pretty neutral on the writing for the whole series, it had it's ups and downs, but where it absolutely lost me was the minute they retconned proto-joker into being an abusive asshole which contradicts the whole point of the The Killing Joke.
Yes but no but yes? If memory serve, after Batman shows the Joker that Gordon was perfectly fine after all the torture in The Killing Joke, disproving Joker's whole "All it takes is one bad day for anybody to be like me and I'll show you!" Batman then said something along the lines of that maybe there was already something wrong with him (Joker) and that's why he (Joker) broke. Maybe Johns read that and referenced it in a completely not-nuanced way by just being like "Oh yeah and also Joker beat his wife or some shit." The panels in the Killing Joke portray him as an average man, and that fight between him and his spouse seemed pretty tame to imply that he was a chronic abuser. But if he was actually a good husband the twist at the end of this book has no pay-off. Or doesn't exist in the first place I guess. So they retconned Joker to be a bad husband so they could shyamalan us at the end, and also to enforce instead of imply that no, Joker was the fucked up one all along in the killing joke, which I don't like personally. Killing Joke victimizes the Joker, implying that the trauma from the accident and his own susceptibility, whatever demons he was fighting off and shit, that's what got him. This removes nuance by implying the Joker was a monster even back then, it removes nuance by saying "No that's literally what happened that is the definitive origin and it is 100% true.... except Moore forgot to mention some things so I'm gonna, ya know, I'm gonna touch this up a little bit. There. Now it's so much better."
You guys really put it into the perspective of why the comic really didn't land for me. This book feels like it took a few years to make. I really feel like the story outgrew the initial premise of "three Jokers" and should have just been a story about healing the wounds of Death in the Family, Killing Joke, and the Wayne murders. And I really love that ending twist with Joker's family. Such a clever idea.
I want a comic signed by the ComicPop crew so bad. Doesn't even really matter what it is, I just owe so much to my renewed love of comics to these people. Thank you so much for what you do.
~52:00, Ethan talking about the different joker histories made me imagine joker saying the spider-Man line “if you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us” 😂
I love Geoff Johns as a writer overall, but I've never been too crazy about his Batman work. To clarify, I liked Earth One just fine, but I'm glad it's out of continuity.
there’s a short story called On A Beautiful Summers Day in Further Adventures of The Joker that sounds pretty similar to the part where Joker has a wife and son that are terrified of him.
Have to be honest. I was avoiding this episode because of the bad image i had of the book, but it is a great episode, it is always great when ethan has a little bit more of inside on a history and can share his thoughts on more philosophical points. Love you guys ❤
The Killing Joke is one of my favorite Batman stories ever. Once a year I reread it, usually on a whim, and discover new, exciting things about Moore and Bolland's masterwork. I just finished reading Three Jokers tonight, having waited a month to pick up the third issue at my LCS. And, I must say, that third issue soured the overall series a little for me. Know that I'm an unapologetic Geoff Johns fanboy. Most of my favorite comic books are written by him: Booster Gold, Doomsday Clock, Rebirth, possibly The Button. Most of his retcons work. This didn't. Joker's origin in Killing Joke, to me, was about how anyone, any normal person, can be transmogrified by chance. By one bad day. People with the best intentions often fall the hardest. By saying that The Joker was an abusive husband before he became The Joker, the original message of Killing Joke is undermined. Now it's not that anybody can become the Joker, but rather, that only shitty people can become the Joker. It's as if Johns is saying, "Don't worry. YOU can't become the Joker!" And, while I somewhat enjoy the idea of Jeannie's survival meaning that Joker's transformation was based off a lie, a bad joke, I don't think that pseudo-poeticism justifies such a blatant disregard for another writer's work. Also, in saying that anyone CAN'T become the Joker, Johns not only undermined the point of Moore's work, but of Three Jokers itself. It didn't help that Issue 3 was the weakest, in my opinion, in terms of writing and art. The clunky layouts and strangely-worded-dialogue on some pages, particularly the fight with the ushers, confused me to the point that the comic was unreadable at its set pace. But, despite all that, I'm glad I read Three Jokers. Despite everything, it's worth the price of admission, even if you, like me, have serious reservations about that last issue. For the most part, it was a beautiful dive into a Gotham I sorely missed, one filled with humanity and grime alike. Pick it up. And read Joker War. That's excellent, too. 4/5. PS: Those collectible playing cards are SO COOL!
The reason why this was disappointing is that people were waiting for it for 4 years, delays which made its place in continuity murky, and in my opinion the ending it provided was anti-climatic. As a standalone story it’s fine enough, but I don’t imagine this will be a seminal story.
I don't know if it's just my love for the Comicpop team but hearing them explain this has actually made me buy it, I f'd up by reading the reviews and it soured me to the experience. I love a lot of the themes here from Jason getting closure to Batman getting over Joe Chill who finally apologizes.
Yes! I have loved this channel since well before you changed the name from TV little house. I did not expect you guys to cover this so soon, and even on my birthday! You guys are the coolest, thank you for doing what you do!
That General Grevious joke was funny. It’s funny how the story is just Joker tricking another Joker to make Joe Chill a Joker, while your going through the Batman family trauma. Also, some continuity problems.
Ah 3 jokers one of the most anticipated stories of all time that ended so disappointing which is sad because this story had so much potential to be amazing and the answer we got was nothing.
Killing Joke, yeah. Watchmen, yeah. Green Lantern happened in 2004? 2006? Something like that. He didn't stop writing GL till like 2014. Callin you out hard, you just needed a 3rd thing.
Honestly, I enjoyed this book for what it was. I was never on the hype train for this story because I knew it couldn't live up to 4 years of hype. But I thought it was a solid, stand alone story with gorgeous and triumphant art. A few of the protagonists are most definitely not in character (Jason), but for the most part it's a great Batman/Joker story. The unnecessary retcons to The Killing Joke and A Death In the Family were sigh inducing, but not egregious to me. I would rate it a 9/10 Solely based upon Fabok's masterful art.
I still have yet to make my mind up on how I feel about this book. This episode though was really good, love you guys discussing any of these bigger topics that effect the industry. One thing that still makes no sense to me though is the Comedian's vision/hallucination at the start of issue 2. I get the idea that maybe there's a longing for a normal life or for what he lost, but why would he create a vision in his head about his wife and child being scared of him and not wanting to come downstairs? Why is the vision of the house so specific? I also wonder why in Joe Chill's cell there are photographs on the wall that all mirror elements of said vision (the same car as is on Chill's cell wall is parked outside the house for example). Comedian's vision of what his son would look like is also SPOT ON - down to the haircut. Perhaps this is all hinting that the Comedian found out about his wife and son? Maybe that's why he imagines they'd be scared of him - because he knows they really are? I dunno, it's a weird one. Also, I think the whole thing about the Clown getting details about Jason's death wrong isn't a mistake, but hints that he wasn't ACTUALLY responsible for Death in the Family - he was just parroting off misremembered details that the Comedian told him (Comedian even takes credit for the whole thing in Issue 2, as you guys mentioned).
@@HOTD108_ I would posit that perhaps due to the severe brain damage that perhaps Jason's memory of the event is a little fuzzy. Maybe he can't remember all the details. Also, besides the "I'll be your Robin" thing, it wouldn't make sense for him to correct Joker on much else. "Ummm actually it wasn't a shallow grave you left me in, you blew me up after beating me soooo"
I love this channel. Found it through Mr Sunday Movies mentioning on his channel. I have watched HOURS of your stuff already. I the rapport between you all.
honestly it was a fun story overall. Especially seeing batman almost emotional when going to joe chill's cell for the first time in the book. or the criminal Joker's character overall because his story would be cool to see fleshed out more just from seeing him in this.
4 года назад+2
Is that a Corridor Crew shirt? Cool, great video by the way
I just got the hardcover. Loved your guys take on it. Hilarious as always. The art definitely made it for me. I thought the story was fine too. I am not up to date with the newer Batman runs so that didn’t mess with my read.
33:28 This is the quality content we enjoy. I was listening to this while working out and when this came up I was drinking Gatorade. I was so caught off guard that I accidentally spit all over my weights. It was worth the clean up though.
Thank you for covering this book sal! I’ve been curious to see what this story was about and you’ve sold me on buying it. Also I agree this book should have come out three or four years ago when DC rebirth was happening.
Love your videos. I look forward to them with anticipation. If I haven’t read the book you make me want to read it. If I have read it’s attending the book club I wish I could attend.
If you want, you can say it's canon. It's a take it or leave it kind of story. I prefer to think it's non-canon. Mainly due to the ending. But overall, I enjoyed the story.
Another example of modern Batman directly interacting with a shark and not having a can of shark repellent bat spray handy. DC, we are keeping track of your blunders.
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler It's in coninuity Premise : Batman asked the Mobius chair who's the Joker. The one question he wanted an answer to Ending : "I always knew who's the Joker, I'm Batman Morale : It should have been an elseworld story But I agree the Joe Chill part is really good. And the art is a masterpiece
I remember they were pushing a Jason and Barbara relationship in the N52 era too. I've never really understood the appeal but I also don't understand the appeal of Red Hood in general, so what do I know.
Vid one with me trying to get Sal to do the Annihilation/Annihilation Conquest/Thanos Imperative. I’ve checked the libib, you guys have them. Regardless, love the content y’all are pumping out. Keep up the great work!!!
One of my theories was that Dr. Manhattan had pulled two Jokers from the previous timelines and placed them in the New 52 (since this is still that universe) just to see how Batman would do against three Jokers at once.
Three Jokers strikes me as an answer to a question nobody really asked... "THE JOKER ACTS DIFFERENTLY UNDER DIFFERENT WRITERS BECAUSE THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT JOKERS, MOM!"
Hilarious, entertaining and informative as always, guys....!! Keep up the fantastic work....!! Kinda ironic that when you were talking about yourselves at the end, my thought was The Three Jokers "on the sofa".
I've read this story many times now. It really grows on you. Not perfect by far, but solid and interesting. Plus, man - that art is gorgeous. Total piss off to Red Hood fans though. Also, with the Barb & Jason stuff, yeah - I've had and been around a lot of mixed-up relationships like that. Surprisingly realistic.
Okay so now that I've finished the episode; My favorite part of this story that you didn't really touch on are the nods to Batman 1989. Though the logo is different, the bat suit is basically Keaton's suit (look at the utility belt), the Batmobile is very much modeled in that fashion, the two thugs that Jason beats up in book two are modeled after the thugs from the opening scene of 89 who Bruce wants to tell their friends about him, and you could even argue that the idea of turning Joe Chill into the Joker is an allusion to Jack Napier being both the murderer of the Waynes and The Joker in that movie. Johns and Fabok go for some real deep cuts and I'd love to know which were Johns' direction and which were Fabok's own artistic choices. I'd love to see Fabok on the Elseworlds Exchange.
Buy Batman: Three Jokers: amzn.to/3ne0rFV
Do I have to?
Excited for the inevitable Back Issues episode on Four Jokers ten years from now.
Meh, Ill wait till 6 jokers, skip the filler
The 12 Jokers of Christmas
Maximum Jokerage
@@Ship-security Why?
10 years? I see it happening in 2 years.
Sal, Ethan and Ben dressing alike but kinda different, with the Three Jokers dressing alike but kinda different in the background... that's an aesthetic on it's own.
Still need the Ethan beard to happen.
The Three Sals
Whether it’s intentional or not, its an excellent theme and an interesting atmosphere for the story. I’ve been watching the channel for years now, and there’s always brilliance throughout the shows on top of the fun coverage of all of these books- largely- no, mostly, due to the ComicPop cast, so cheers to all of them
@jabezcreed Ik this is an old comment, but I just wanna say personally I like how it goes from clean shaven Ethan, Sal with a small beard, all the way to Ben. That's just a cool trio synergy imo
I have no proof for this, but I think the raccoon bit might be related to that time Alan Moore compared Geoff Johns to a raccoon going through his trash.
Lil ol' Alley Moore?
@Why Do I Even Look At The Comments it was back when blackest night came out and he was talking about how annoyed he was about the comic industry and how they've all run out of ideas and how they keep having to go back and recycle ideas especially ones hes done and how it's like raccoons going through the trash.
BURN !!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
That's gotta be the most savage burn ever
Three Jokers here. Two Harleys in White Knight.
Still, only one Two-Face.
Don't give them any ideas lol
Well..i mean there are technically two Two-Faces
There has been at least one copycat Two-Face that I can remember
don't you mean... one-face?!
I'll see myself out. also credit to whoever gets this reference
@@benhramiak8781 Linkara!!
Batman: "I can't believe you killed the Joker, Jason. I trusted you."
Jason: "Bruce, I literally just fed Gaggy to a shark."
Batman: "Who? Never heard of him."
@Super JLK Well Killer Moth is in Batgirl: Year One. That story is great.
@@DanV900 That was a good story. Killer Moth was hilarious. His partner was even funnier.
Truth.
Poor Gaggy.
Ethan’s the Criminal, Sal’s the Comedian, Ben’s the Clown.
Does this mean that Tiffany’s Harley Quinn? Because she’s certainly not Punchline.
😊👍🏾
Next Halloween?
Harley 1, from White Knight.
I really wanted to see more with criminal joker. The implication that I got was that these three jokers represented the different eras of the joker: criminal was the original one from the golden age, clown was silver/bronze age goofy joker, and the comedian was the modern age.
Also too, if you look at the protagonist used, each one kinda has a personal connection to each. The comedian shot batgirl. The clown killed Jason. And the criminal has been the one fighting Batman since the beginning. I get everyone loves the killing joke joker, but I was really hoping the criminal would be the one to come out of this
The art and Joe Chill stuff was the only things I liked, but that should have been their own story, and not mixed with the Three Joker mistery.
What I've learned is that: Jim Gordon is a bad detective, barbara Gordon is equally bad at disguises, and Batman asks really bad questions when given the chance to ask a magical piece of furniture a question.
Oh, and also I've learned that at least one of the three jokers has a CDL. Good for him. We have a truck driver shortage in this country.
I finally made it to the end of the video, and I've also learned that Batgirl has experienced what I assume every woman experiences, which is that you try to be emotionally available and supportive to someone you care about, and that person thinks that you want a boyfriend. Good job, Jason.
The idea that Joker is just an identity used by multiple different people and that you never know which one is behind what plot sounds interesting. But it also feels like it makes Joker less unique. In a way I think I like the idea that he is just one crazy guy who routinely reinvents himself is better.
I was hoping when this came out they would of done a multi-Personality joker where each personality in the joker was a different style of joker .
That would make better sense, considering he is suppossed to be chaos incarnate, at least in his own mind.
I didn’t even realize they were all wearing plaid shirts to match the 3 jokers until like an hour in lmao
You know, I sometimes rag on Alan Moore for being crabby over ideas of his being utilized later (Blackest Knight) when he himself uses other creators’ work for his comics, but in this case...it really feels like it’s time for DC to stop rehashing The Killing Joke.
There are two classic comic stories that DC should, but never will, leave alone. The Killing Joke and Watchman. With that in mind, I'd say Moore is 100% justified in his grumpiness.
Batman: Three Jokers. The story where Batman, the world’s greatest detective, can’t figure out that that he’s been fighting three different guys.
Batgirl and Red Hood: *spend five minutes watching Joker after the fight*
“Why do you look like a different person than before????”
In Batman's defence, the writers and artists have been very inconsistent in how the Joker both looks and acts, so I'm surprised Batman recognises anyone ever.
But Batman does know who the joker is unless I read it wrong he always knew who the joker was cause at the end of the story batman hints at the real joker the one from the killing joke.
@@megamanzeroist Wait. So this storyline is precluded by Batman asking the Mobius Chair what the Joker's real name is, and it ends with the reveal he knew the Joker's real name a week after they met? I'm really getting tired of the comic book industry setting up events before they even plan them out. Remember how before Doomsday Clock, the Superman comics showed that Jor-El had been rescued by Doctor Manhattan and brought to earth? And how actual Doomsday Clock made it clear that's not what happened in the slightest? Because they wrote the former to tease the latter before they even knew what the latter's story was gonna be?
@@swguygardner that's DC comics and comics in general....
I like the fact that even though Jason has done questionable things since he came back, the Bat Family still cares about him.
As they should
Jason Todd: "I have done nothing wrong, ever, in my life."
Batman: "I know this, and I love you."
Joker beats Jason with a Crowbar then kills him with an explosion = Kills Jason with a crowbar and left in a shallow grave.
Ben Kenobi: So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
*Alan Moore:* No one knows who Joker is including Joker. Here's a possible origin but let's heavily imply that Joker is making it up and pulling it out his ass and he has 20 different origins on the Back-Burner because the Joker is better if he has no origin.
*Geoff Johns:* No the Killing Joke origin is what happened. Here's the the Chemicals, here's the real living Family, here's batman confirming it happend by establishing he already knows this. But its okay if this makes people mad because I said that it doesn't matter and if you think it matters then you're taking this too seriously.
This is true
Well the chemical thing is hard canon because of Zero Year
@@kobi7955 We don't talk about Zero Year...
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache I love Zero Year.
@@kobi7955 The chemical thing and Joker having been the Red Hood has been hard canon since the 1950s, actually.
I do like that Joker was the one who "helped" Batman. Because no matter what, Batman will be conflicted. He managed to deal with his parent's killer, but only because of the Joker. It's something bittersweet. Exactly what Joker would do to piss Batman off
I love that it introduces the idea that both the Joker and Batman know each other's identities but it doesn't matter to either of them. I think that turned a lot of people off from the book but I personally think it is it's saving grace aside from the art.
Ill be honest I was a little disappointed by this story but dang was that art amazing
Definitely 🧡❤🔥🔥
Exactly, the story is fine its just the ending was stupid
It completely disregards the one bad day thing
@@jaytheartman610 I agree completely. I actually did kinda like the Batgirl/Red Hood stuff but when I finished issue no.3 I was just kinda like 😐Well that was a thing wasn’t it
Yes! The art is gorgeous! But the story could've been better. My problem is how Johns makes the Joker's origin known. He was the failed comedian.
Personally, I prefer the Joker's origin to be a complete mystery. Johns COMPLETELY missed the point. You're not supposed to know his origin. The idea is that the Joker could've been anyone. A Red Hood, a mobster, a stand-up comic, etc.
Joker: Whats going to be our plan?
Joker: The same thing we do everyday.
Joker: Try to get Batman's attention?
Joker: No! Try to take over the world.
The ending actually made me crack up with Joker healing batman. I'm conflicted about this story but I loved that. That was funny.
I remember Gaggy, he showed up in Paul Dini’s Gotham City Sirens series, he wanted revenge on Harley for taking his place as Joker’s number 2... it was a fun story in a cool series, definitely recommend
I'd love to see more Gaggy, honestly. He was around several decades before Harley Quinn. And with Punchline around, that could make things more interesting.
“Wait a year and we’ll talk about it” by Sal in the Button episode plays in my mind as I wait and pray for the Doomsday clock episode
Didn’t they cover Doomsday clock already?
@@idongesitusen5764 no, they covered it on their "Off the Rack" series when the issues were coming out one by one. They never talked about it in Back Issues.
Joker: Jason isn't smart enough to be joker
Also joker: picks a man with learning disabilities
Having learning disabilities doesn't automatically make someone an idiot. At least not always.
@@HOTD108_ Yeah. Joe Chill is an old sick man. He also regrets his crimes. And this is the perfect candidate to transform into the Joker? Really?
@@Shaitanic13 To be fair, it wasn't THE Joker's plan.
I love the idea of bruce having a go at jason like he's a disapproving dad, or the running gag of superman showing up and solving the problem
I like to think that this happened right after darkseid war, that way i can chalk the complete disregard of Jason's growth over the years up to just "being near his dad still brings out that side of him"
Yeah, that thought came to my mind too. Especially with how much this story was delayed.
But that "growth" Is lame if you think about it. Like he kills bad guys why wouldn't he ever kill the guy who literally bludgeoned him to death with a crowbar?
@@ridge825 we can go even further than that, like since his whole shtick is basically BatPunisher then Batman and the others shouldn’t even want anything to do with him instead of just keeping him around as the rebellious/ bad boy son/brother
@@mikesmith145 My problem is also there is no consistency among the writers about his character sometimes he's a anti hero, sometimes he's a villain and sometimes he's a good guy
Pros: The Art.
Cons: The Killing Joke retconned
Death in the family retconned
Jokers origin retconned
Batman's origin retconned (again)
Plus Joker fatigue
The book is full of cool drawings more than anything else.
That’s kinda the same as the current Legion of Superheroes title, they even had 2 issues where a different artist did each page. Amazing art for a pointless story.
Half of these aren't even retconned what?
Can we make a rule that says that writers shouldn't try to fix what isn't broken?
I mean, this is Black Label and not in continuity right? So why does it matter what's retconned because that's not being taken forward for the main universe.
@@HunterOfGremlins98 this is canon they literally said it in the beginning of the video
I think there is a GREAT story in this. I wish the book wasn’t about there being three jokers and focused more on Joker healing the Joe Chill wound. I thought that part of the book was great and was waaayyy more compelling than the pointless three jokers plot. As a big fan of most things Johns has written, this is probably the most disappointing
Same man
To me, the key point is that the Three Jokers are the premise, but the rest of the story is the delivery.
And that final bit was great IMHO, him keeping that secret and his reasoning why was really good despite the retcons
Even the best creators can have a bad story every once in a while. It happens. Not everything they touch will magically turn to gold.
I kind of interpreted it as Joker helping Batman get over Chill as a means to wound Batman. Since Joker helped him deal with his trauma, it causes Bruce pain because his greatest nemesis is the one who fixed everything.
I really like how they read it and make fun of it but still respect the more interesting and salient parts of the story.
Sal also doesn’t overdo the reading like I sometimes feel channels like Comicstorian do or underdo the reading like Films comics explained.
I’ve only ever watched their podcast style content with comicstorian but I think I’m really into this channel
Four years to tell a contained story that doesn't really answer the question that inspired it. Lovely.
Damn straight
But it did answer. Killing Joke is the definite origin and the official Joker going forward.
@@quizmo1000 but what does that mean for the other two jokers? What are their story's? Who were they? It tells is Jack especially about the clown joker
@@quizmo1000 ah I see, so the plan was to ask a question that nobody's asked before (which fair enough I guess. Good job writers) that question being "what if there were 3 jokers?" Then the answer to that question provided in the story is "shut up it's what you remember again, go away."
@@quizmo1000 Which sucks btw. Joker not having an official backstory is what makes him so interesting, or at least it's one of the most interesting things. Establishing any one story as the "definite" Joker origin sucks major ass.
Sal: the criminal
Ben:the comedian
Ethan:the clown
I liked Batman finally coming to terms with Joe Chill. It seems appropriate to have Joker be the impetus for that. Over all it seems a decently crafted story with absolutely beautiful art
And we finally see
That the joke was on us
This story was hyped to be some BIG story but it ended being a much smaller, much personal story with amazing art. I really enjoyed and appreciated it 👌🏼
Really seems like this story wouldn't be so awkward if it had come out in time. it's also kinda funny that this story - aside from the Joe Chill stuff - only really serves to bring the Three Jokers "situation" back to just one Joker.
The conversation about Bruce just calling Superman reminded me of the awesome scene in Red Robin where Tim says to Ra’s Al Ghul “I’m not Batman. I have friends.” And then all of the Titans show up 😂
Still one of my favorite Tim Drake moments! Red Robin is the reason I am a fan of Tim
I was pretty neutral on the writing for the whole series, it had it's ups and downs, but where it absolutely lost me was the minute they retconned proto-joker into being an abusive asshole which contradicts the whole point of the The Killing Joke.
Yes but no but yes? If memory serve, after Batman shows the Joker that Gordon was perfectly fine after all the torture in The Killing Joke, disproving Joker's whole "All it takes is one bad day for anybody to be like me and I'll show you!" Batman then said something along the lines of that maybe there was already something wrong with him (Joker) and that's why he (Joker) broke. Maybe Johns read that and referenced it in a completely not-nuanced way by just being like "Oh yeah and also Joker beat his wife or some shit." The panels in the Killing Joke portray him as an average man, and that fight between him and his spouse seemed pretty tame to imply that he was a chronic abuser. But if he was actually a good husband the twist at the end of this book has no pay-off. Or doesn't exist in the first place I guess. So they retconned Joker to be a bad husband so they could shyamalan us at the end, and also to enforce instead of imply that no, Joker was the fucked up one all along in the killing joke, which I don't like personally. Killing Joke victimizes the Joker, implying that the trauma from the accident and his own susceptibility, whatever demons he was fighting off and shit, that's what got him. This removes nuance by implying the Joker was a monster even back then, it removes nuance by saying "No that's literally what happened that is the definitive origin and it is 100% true.... except Moore forgot to mention some things so I'm gonna, ya know, I'm gonna touch this up a little bit. There. Now it's so much better."
You guys really put it into the perspective of why the comic really didn't land for me. This book feels like it took a few years to make. I really feel like the story outgrew the initial premise of "three Jokers" and should have just been a story about healing the wounds of Death in the Family, Killing Joke, and the Wayne murders. And I really love that ending twist with Joker's family. Such a clever idea.
"This is of course in continuity" "Someone else will tell that story" I have bad news Sal from the past
I like the idea of Barbara being emotional support for Jason and helping him.
I want a comic signed by the ComicPop crew so bad. Doesn't even really matter what it is, I just owe so much to my renewed love of comics to these people. Thank you so much for what you do.
I hope you enjoy your signed copy of Spider-Man: One More Day!
~52:00, Ethan talking about the different joker histories made me imagine joker saying the spider-Man line “if you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us” 😂
I really would have like The Criminal Joker had survived and became the main Joker. I found him to be more interesting than the other two.
Sal: "Ahh I'mma kill every joker, every joker who's ever lived!"
...A clown-hunter, if you will
Talk about a quick turn-around, damn! Awesome work once again gang.
Wow. I thought Paul Dini was the only one who remembered Gaggy.
I love Geoff Johns as a writer overall, but I've never been too crazy about his Batman work.
To clarify, I liked Earth One just fine, but I'm glad it's out of continuity.
@@Qthetar They wouldn't work if they were in continuity.
@@Qthetar I'm not disputing that.
there’s a short story called On A Beautiful Summers Day in Further Adventures of The Joker that sounds pretty similar to the part where Joker has a wife and son that are terrified of him.
Name a more toxic relationship: Geoff Johns and meeting a deadline
Poison Ivy and her plants!
Jason Todd and his signature crowbar
Rian Johnson and Star Wars
Grant Morrison and comprehensive stories
@@dylantortosa7678 You just have to do more drugs guy. Get on the man's level.
I can't believe an hour and 44 minutes flew by so fast. Great episode guys.
Have to be honest. I was avoiding this episode because of the bad image i had of the book, but it is a great episode, it is always great when ethan has a little bit more of inside on a history and can share his thoughts on more philosophical points. Love you guys ❤
The Killing Joke is one of my favorite Batman stories ever. Once a year I reread it, usually on a whim, and discover new, exciting things about Moore and Bolland's masterwork.
I just finished reading Three Jokers tonight, having waited a month to pick up the third issue at my LCS. And, I must say, that third issue soured the overall series a little for me. Know that I'm an unapologetic Geoff Johns fanboy. Most of my favorite comic books are written by him: Booster Gold, Doomsday Clock, Rebirth, possibly The Button. Most of his retcons work.
This didn't.
Joker's origin in Killing Joke, to me, was about how anyone, any normal person, can be transmogrified by chance. By one bad day. People with the best intentions often fall the hardest. By saying that The Joker was an abusive husband before he became The Joker, the original message of Killing Joke is undermined. Now it's not that anybody can become the Joker, but rather, that only shitty people can become the Joker. It's as if Johns is saying, "Don't worry. YOU can't become the Joker!" And, while I somewhat enjoy the idea of Jeannie's survival meaning that Joker's transformation was based off a lie, a bad joke, I don't think that pseudo-poeticism justifies such a blatant disregard for another writer's work. Also, in saying that anyone CAN'T become the Joker, Johns not only undermined the point of Moore's work, but of Three Jokers itself.
It didn't help that Issue 3 was the weakest, in my opinion, in terms of writing and art. The clunky layouts and strangely-worded-dialogue on some pages, particularly the fight with the ushers, confused me to the point that the comic was unreadable at its set pace.
But, despite all that, I'm glad I read Three Jokers. Despite everything, it's worth the price of admission, even if you, like me, have serious reservations about that last issue. For the most part, it was a beautiful dive into a Gotham I sorely missed, one filled with humanity and grime alike. Pick it up. And read Joker War. That's excellent, too.
4/5.
PS: Those collectible playing cards are SO COOL!
Sal: The Fan
Ben: The Comedian
Ethan: The Logical
Tiffany: The Historian
@@thesolarengineer yh I was tryin think of that My brain could not come up with anything
Us: The Audience
Sal wasn't kidding. This art is amazing!
The reason why this was disappointing is that people were waiting for it for 4 years, delays which made its place in continuity murky, and in my opinion the ending it provided was anti-climatic. As a standalone story it’s fine enough, but I don’t imagine this will be a seminal story.
I don't know if it's just my love for the Comicpop team but hearing them explain this has actually made me buy it, I f'd up by reading the reviews and it soured me to the experience. I love a lot of the themes here from Jason getting closure to Batman getting over Joe Chill who finally apologizes.
Yes! I have loved this channel since well before you changed the name from TV little house. I did not expect you guys to cover this so soon, and even on my birthday! You guys are the coolest, thank you for doing what you do!
I'm with Sal, I really dig Bruce coming to terms with Joe Chill. I just wish it was in a better story.
i come back to this episode so often. The perfect example of how you guys joke at comics, but appreciate the craft so much!
Didn't expect this crappiness from Geoff Johns but I'll be getting a deluxe hardcover mainly for the art.
That General Grevious joke was funny. It’s funny how the story is just Joker tricking another Joker to make Joe Chill a Joker, while your going through the Batman family trauma. Also, some continuity problems.
Red Hood, _Blue Balls_
Also, *When you're left alone with the baby*
*The Baby:* 1:39:38
I read this same comment u put on a video not that long ago and now it’s on here and for some reason says 4 days ago. RUclips confuses me lol
Ah 3 jokers one of the most anticipated stories of all time that ended so disappointing which is sad because this story had so much potential to be amazing and the answer we got was nothing.
@Super JLK agreed and I can understand that
I saw you posted the link on Twitter, and I knew I needed to see this episode ASAP.
WOW!! I just read it last week, wasn't expecting an episode this fast, HELL YEAH HERE WE GO!!
Geoff Johns loves writing sequels to Alan Moore work Killing Joke watchmen and green lantern so far......
Can't wait for V for Vengeance by Geoff Johns and his Swamp Thing run. He won't rest until he's touched everything Moore wrote.
Killing Joke, yeah. Watchmen, yeah. Green Lantern happened in 2004? 2006? Something like that. He didn't stop writing GL till like 2014. Callin you out hard, you just needed a 3rd thing.
@@KWHere2 blackest night is a sequel/reimagining to an Alan Moore story from decades before
Honestly, I enjoyed this book for what it was. I was never on the hype train for this story because I knew it couldn't live up to 4 years of hype. But I thought it was a solid, stand alone story with gorgeous and triumphant art. A few of the protagonists are most definitely not in character (Jason), but for the most part it's a great Batman/Joker story. The unnecessary retcons to The Killing Joke and A Death In the Family were sigh inducing, but not egregious to me. I would rate it a 9/10 Solely based upon Fabok's masterful art.
I still have yet to make my mind up on how I feel about this book. This episode though was really good, love you guys discussing any of these bigger topics that effect the industry.
One thing that still makes no sense to me though is the Comedian's vision/hallucination at the start of issue 2. I get the idea that maybe there's a longing for a normal life or for what he lost, but why would he create a vision in his head about his wife and child being scared of him and not wanting to come downstairs? Why is the vision of the house so specific? I also wonder why in Joe Chill's cell there are photographs on the wall that all mirror elements of said vision (the same car as is on Chill's cell wall is parked outside the house for example). Comedian's vision of what his son would look like is also SPOT ON - down to the haircut. Perhaps this is all hinting that the Comedian found out about his wife and son? Maybe that's why he imagines they'd be scared of him - because he knows they really are? I dunno, it's a weird one.
Also, I think the whole thing about the Clown getting details about Jason's death wrong isn't a mistake, but hints that he wasn't ACTUALLY responsible for Death in the Family - he was just parroting off misremembered details that the Comedian told him (Comedian even takes credit for the whole thing in Issue 2, as you guys mentioned).
If the Clown getting details wrong is correct, then how come Jason didn't call out his BS?
@@HOTD108_ I would posit that perhaps due to the severe brain damage that perhaps Jason's memory of the event is a little fuzzy. Maybe he can't remember all the details. Also, besides the "I'll be your Robin" thing, it wouldn't make sense for him to correct Joker on much else. "Ummm actually it wasn't a shallow grave you left me in, you blew me up after beating me soooo"
I love this channel. Found it through Mr Sunday Movies mentioning on his channel.
I have watched HOURS of your stuff already. I the rapport between you all.
honestly it was a fun story overall. Especially seeing batman almost emotional when going to joe chill's cell for the first time in the book. or the criminal Joker's character overall because his story would be cool to see fleshed out more just from seeing him in this.
Is that a Corridor Crew shirt? Cool, great video by the way
When you’re in the middle of watching back issues and a new episode is out!! Love you guys ❤️
I just got the hardcover. Loved your guys take on it. Hilarious as always. The art definitely made it for me. I thought the story was fine too. I am not up to date with the newer Batman runs so that didn’t mess with my read.
33:28 This is the quality content we enjoy. I was listening to this while working out and when this came up I was drinking Gatorade. I was so caught off guard that I accidentally spit all over my weights. It was worth the clean up though.
Wow I’m dense! How did I not realize this is what you were teasing yesterday!! Love you guys! Happy flannel season in New England!
I’m surprised that they did 3 Jokers before Doomsday Clock.
I’m not lol. That’s going to be a beast of an episode. I can see why they haven’t done it yet
Thanks to you I actually appreciate this series so much more now
Thank you for covering this book sal! I’ve been curious to see what this story was about and you’ve sold me on buying it. Also I agree this book should have come out three or four years ago when DC rebirth was happening.
I'm so excited to be able to hear your guy's thoughts on three jokers and the way you tell the story and point out key hidden gems in the stories
Shocked to see you guys do Three Jokers so soon but not one bit disappointed! Personally I enjoyed the story and the art was beyond phenomenal!
Love your videos. I look forward to them with anticipation. If I haven’t read the book you make me want to read it. If I have read it’s attending the book club I wish I could attend.
Is Three Jokers canon?
Edit: NVM, it is. AND HOLY SHIT, THIS IS MOVIE LENGTH LONG.
You want movie length? Check out their HoX/PoX video
If you want, you can say it's canon. It's a take it or leave it kind of story.
I prefer to think it's non-canon. Mainly due to the ending. But overall, I enjoyed the story.
Why do you care about canon? It's all fictional.
@@HOTD108_ Does it matter why?
It may or may not be. It's still unclear.
Another example of modern Batman directly interacting with a shark and not having a can of shark repellent bat spray handy. DC, we are keeping track of your blunders.
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler
It's in coninuity
Premise : Batman asked the Mobius chair who's the Joker. The one question he wanted an answer to
Ending : "I always knew who's the Joker, I'm Batman
Morale : It should have been an elseworld story
But I agree the Joe Chill part is really good. And the art is a masterpiece
I remember they were pushing a Jason and Barbara relationship in the N52 era too.
I've never really understood the appeal but I also don't understand the appeal of Red Hood in general, so what do I know.
I think they would work as a couple of you push them past their Joker trauma.
Jason’s also significantly younger than Barbara and was a boy when she was in college. It’s very weird to me.
@@Ray_Petree Well, that was true before Fleshlight - I mean Flashpoint, but who knows now.
Three jokers
My Disappointment Is Immeasurable And My Day Is Ruined
Vid one with me trying to get Sal to do the Annihilation/Annihilation Conquest/Thanos Imperative. I’ve checked the libib, you guys have them. Regardless, love the content y’all are pumping out. Keep up the great work!!!
Jason Fabok art is one of those art that just looks so premium and expensive
One Million Jokers coming in 20 years
The idea of the joker being yeeted into the phantom zone is tooooo perfect
I stumbled upon this and it introduced me to back issues and now I'm obsessed!
Also keep it up with Ultimate Spider-man! 😂👍👍😜
I swear this was the fastest hour and 40 minutes of my entire life. Feels like 20 minutes went by. Damn this was fun.
One of my theories was that Dr. Manhattan had pulled two Jokers from the previous timelines and placed them in the New 52 (since this is still that universe) just to see how Batman would do against three Jokers at once.
Three Jokers strikes me as an answer to a question nobody really asked...
"THE JOKER ACTS DIFFERENTLY UNDER DIFFERENT WRITERS BECAUSE THERE'S THREE DIFFERENT JOKERS, MOM!"
And Grant Morrison already did that far better a decade before this.
Cornette I never thought you would've read comics
@@LogantheSloth Actually they did it in 1989 in the Arkham Asylum graphic novel over thirty years ago.
Please cover something to build up to King in Black! Like Venom Rex, Absolute Carnage, or even Thor God Butcher and Thor Godbomb
Hilarious, entertaining and informative as always, guys....!! Keep up the fantastic work....!!
Kinda ironic that when you were talking about yourselves at the end, my thought was The Three Jokers "on the sofa".
I've read this story many times now. It really grows on you. Not perfect by far, but solid and interesting. Plus, man - that art is gorgeous. Total piss off to Red Hood fans though.
Also, with the Barb & Jason stuff, yeah - I've had and been around a lot of mixed-up relationships like that. Surprisingly realistic.
Okay so now that I've finished the episode;
My favorite part of this story that you didn't really touch on are the nods to Batman 1989. Though the logo is different, the bat suit is basically Keaton's suit (look at the utility belt), the Batmobile is very much modeled in that fashion, the two thugs that Jason beats up in book two are modeled after the thugs from the opening scene of 89 who Bruce wants to tell their friends about him, and you could even argue that the idea of turning Joe Chill into the Joker is an allusion to Jack Napier being both the murderer of the Waynes and The Joker in that movie. Johns and Fabok go for some real deep cuts and I'd love to know which were Johns' direction and which were Fabok's own artistic choices. I'd love to see Fabok on the Elseworlds Exchange.