This was such a great episode! Endgame is definitely the tragedy to Death of the Family's comedy, and it's one of my favourite takes on the Joker. He's so chilling and sadistic.
I personally view this comic as a really messy breakup, and it greatly increases my enjoyment of it overall. Everything Joker does in this story is meant to get Batman’s attention - mind-controlling the Justice League, unleashing the Joker Virus, breaking the secret identity taboo, all of it. It’s like on every page, he’s screaming, “I don’t care about you! You mean nothing to me! Look at what I can accomplish without you holding me back!” When in reality, that’s just not true - Joker’s the same as he’s ever been, just playing mind games and making jokes, because in the end, he’s nothing without Batman. But the tragedy is that he’s also right, that Batman is nothing without him.
I love the panels where Jim is crying tears of joy after “killing” the Joker and telling Batman it’s over and you see in the background Joker getting back up. Chills it feels like something straight from a horror movie.
Imagine, for a moment, that you are Jim Gordon, and you have just shot the Joker. Just imagine. This man, this _monster,_ has caused you and your family to undergo indescribable suffering and trauma. He has crippled your daughter. He has murdered your wife. He has tried to drive you insane. He has committed countless atrocities, killed and tortured countless innocents, and every night his horrible laughter rings in your ears and you dream of ending his horrid existence. And now, you have just shot him. Imagine the sheer _relief_ you must feel, in that instant, because the Joker is dead. He’s dead, and you won. He didn’t drive you mad. He didn’t cause you to abandon your principles. You killed him in self-defense, after giving him a warning and after he gave probable cause - you did it _by the book._ You _won,_ and he’s dead, and every single person that has died, that has suffered, that has grieved their loved ones because of him - they’ve all been avenged. All these years, all this _pain,_ and you did it. It’s over. It’s finally _over._ And then he gets back up. And you realize that you are in Hell, because you are Jim Gordon, and the Joker cannot die. The Joker *will never die.*
Jokerfied Wonder Woman: “We never liked you, you’re too weak and stupid to ever be our friend” Batman: “Nuh uh” Jokerfied WW: “…The fuck do you mean, _nuh uh?”_
Reading Scott Snyder’s run is like watching an 80’s action cartoon, and every five minutes a new character or plot point is introduced to sell more toys… like “Hey kids, ask you parents to buy you the new JL BATtle Suit, only $19.99 at your local Toys R’ Us” lol
@@joelkirkwood8224 He is, in a way. Joker’s mad that Batman doesn’t take him seriously, and he’s acting out in an attempt to prove him wrong. It’s the supervillain equivalent of trying make your ex jealous.
Think a fav moment of mine in the snyder run is seeing Bruce and a cured joker sitting on a bench and talking. Feels like joker doesn't want Bruce to become batman again cos that means he'd have to come back
It was so long ago, but that wasn’t even a Snyder decision to have Joker get his face cut off! Tony S. Daniel did that to start the bad Detective Comics New 52 run. Snyder just took that ball and ran with it in Death of the Family.
This story helps support my theory about Batman's enemies knowing his identity... I think there's more people in Batman's rogue's gallery that know that the secret than he realizes, but much like the Flash, they either keep it to themselves out of a warped sense of respect/honor or they keep it to themselves simply because they don't care who he is under the mask. I find it best to group his foes into 3 main categories: Those with respect, those with honor, and those who are genuinely crazy. The first group is those with a respect for Batman: These are people who can be reasoned with and even made into temporary allies. I like to think Ivy, Harley, Two-Face, and Man-Bat, and Firefly know who he is, but keep quiet because they respect him for having the guts to fight them rather than roll over and give in like any normal person would. The second group is those with Honor: These are the ones who only fight when they have to. Ones who are content to be left alone if possible. For example, I think Bane keeps his secret from a warped sense of honor. Like if he told people, it would put people like Alfred, Lucius, and others in the line of fire, and that wouldn't be fair because they did nothing to deserve that. Penguin also can be put in this category. Same goes for people like Deathstroke and Ra's Al Gul. Mr. Freeze also fits in here to an extent. Then there's the REALLY crazy ones, and they keep the secret because revealing it would leave them with no else to fight. They keep his secret because on some level, they can't imagine what to do if they aren't fighting him. In this category are Joker, Scarecrow, and Hush. They have a pathological NEED to fight and be stopped. Even if they don't admit it, some part of them WANTS to fail. They want him to stop them, because they can't think of a life beyond this. Its why they have really outlandish costumes, or use weird ass calling cards to tell Batman who they are. Now, I will say, this is all just conjecture. Its my personal take on the topic, and I don't really have any evidence to support it directly, but there have been times in the comics that kinda support this idea. As with any theory, take it with a bit of salt unless it has proof.
This is an intense, exciting arc from start to finish, but what really makes it one of the best Batman & Joker stories of all time is their battle at the end. Their fight is so brutal and bloody that it almost did feel like the final Batman story. Almost.
I want to see Riddler sue The Joker over the "Eric Border" naming scheme. It could be a legit court case, but everyone outside of Joker and Riddler thinks its a big scheme.
Grayson's been hanging onto this plan since "Batman: The Black Mirror" and his meeting with the Joker. *Grayson:* "I'm not _your_ Batman, am I? Well guess what! How about that's the crux of this whole plan, you fool! I gotcha!" *Joker:* "Jesus, Dick." *Grayson:* "Yes I am!"
I was thinking this! I imagine this being dicks middle finger moment for the joker being like Ha I got you. Which is crazy cause it shows that dick has grown like he fits the role to the point where none of the batfamily guess that he was Batman for a portion of that fight
@@benparrish672 Tim Drake actually makes a lot more sense as the one taking up the mantle in the future since he is the most like Bruce. Cassandra Cain believes in Bruce’s vision the most. Batman and Robin by Morrison featuring Dick was great and I love Batman: The Black Mirror, but Dick isn’t the best option to be Batman as the heir with his personality. Did you ever read A Lonely Place of Living? The way Tynion explained the Titans Tomorrow Tim’s back story with incorporating Damian’s Batman from Batman #666 was great where Tim killed Damian since Damian went too far. Dick would never kill anyone. The Knights of Tomorrow episode of Brave and the Bold is awesome. The Joker kills Bruce and Selina leading to Dick becoming Batman in that episode and Damian becomes Robin. They fight and defeat Joker and Joker Jr.
Endgame’s one of my fav stories from Snyder’s run and one of my fav Batman comics period. Wish we’d get more stories that explore Batman and Joker’s relationship like this. Great episode
All these years learning about comics and watching Back Issues and finally at last it's a full arc that I've read and have a copy of. So this time I'm gonna follow right along with Sal, Ethan and Ben on the couch.
I'm reminded of The Animation Show whenever the transition from Endgame to Superheavy comes up "I hope we all learned a little something about the fascinating world of Batman today, and can now think about it a little differently, a Batman comic isn't just a random series of mindless, self-indulgent, violent sequential images, meant only to be enjoyed by young children , but is a serious art medium. All into which the artist is---ROBOTS!"
This was a very special period in comics for me. I was still new and Green Lantern - my entry book - was falling apart. Then you had #DCYou come in and give me my first "Everything you like will change" moment in comics. Gordon was Batman, Hal Jordan has a mullet and trenchcoat in 2014, Superman was fist fighting and riding motorcycles with a buzz cut, Aquaman was Conan, and Wonder Woman actually was the best member of the Trinity by default for like a year. I almost quit on principal but here I remain lol.
Those years were a bit rough indeed. Thankfully DC and Marvel publish a few great runs every now and then. Modern comics are getting real fackin' stupid unfortunately. Too many of them.
@@TheGreatDevlin I love Secret Wars! Missed out on getting a beautiful oversized hardcover. Think I had the first volume of Beauty but sadly didn't take the time to read it. Sold a buncha books.
@@Martin_TheCollector The Beauty was one of the first comics where I was afraid to turn the page bc I knew someone was gonna die. And the premise is fascinating: a STD that makes you the most attractive version of yourself and the effect it has on society.
@@TheGreatDevlin Oh Snaps!! Guess I should've read it. These days I mainly collect big HC's, would be awesome if that series got some. There's many indies that deserve that format. Joshua Williamson's "Birthright" included.
Yesss please do Last Knight on Earth. It’s wild hahah Probably my favorite scene in Snyder’s run is when amnesiac Bruce and Joker are sitting on the bench together talking.
God I cant wait for Last Knight On Earth. I remember when Capullo first tweeted that he was doing his last story ever and everyone was freaking out about it. So good
... I still think the leader of the Court of Owls should have been, like, an ancient Elliot or Cobblepot or Wayne. Specifically, since it's a court, it should have been Judge Solomon Wayne.
My headcanon is that Simon Hurt/the original Thomas Wayne from Grant Morrison’s Batman run is the true founder of the Court of Owls. I think that would be a pretty cool retcon, considering that it’s been established that the leaders of the Court worship Barbatos, and Hurt founded the original Cult of Barbatos in Gotham, so tying those plot points together would make sense.
YES FINALLY!!!! I've waited years to see this covered on Back Issues. Snyder's run was far superior to King's and yet his arcs were covered more on the couch I assume cause it's so much easier to make fun of. But this is just pure quality. Not saying it's perfect, but it was so dang epic and fun.
In regards to the Lark and Signal names, 5 years ago I said on Twitter in a response that Signal wasn’t a good name. Scott Snyder then sent me a DM saying “Lark wouldn’t carry it’s (wrong its Scott!) own book imo. I like Signal! :)” Of course the Signal to this day doesn’t carry a book. I said Bluebird worked as a name and there’s a butterfly called the Golden Birdwing where there’s a cool name somewhere in there. He didn’t respond back, but it was cool that he sent me a DM!
Love the spiritual follow-up to an episode you did... over eight years ago? That episode inspired me to collect the entirety of the Snyder/Capullo run, with this story being the only hardcover volume among the other trades. Can't have a trade run without one entry standing out!
Just finished re-reading the Snyder capullo run the other day, and I got to say it kinda burnt me out on the joker. If you just look at the big event style storylines, half of them heavily feature the joker (if you count red hood in zero year or last knight on earth), which made me really wish we got to see more of Batman’s rogues gallery. I would have adored to see their take on scarecrow or two-face, who both would’ve been awesome to see with the horror inspired tone of the art and writing.
Snyder saying as Metal was happening that he could do a Scarecrow story, but isn’t interested was incredibly disappointing. I really liked All Star Batman which was a Two-Face story with Romita Jr.’s best art since the JMS run. He is finally good again in the current Spider-Man run. The Last Knight on Earth with the final issue stinks and Snyder overused Joker.
@@DanV900 it’s kinda sad that the writing in last knight on earth kinda sucks, because I think it probably has some of Capullo’s best art on Batman. Aside from Omega, who is just generic evil Batman number 108, Batman in a strait jacket carrying the jokers head in a lamp looks really cool, and the spider-scarecrow riding around on a zombified banes back is pretty creepy. Though all of that is pretty much ditched by the third issue. But I guess it fulfilled it purpose, which is make me kinda want the McFarlane figures
As a Joker fan, I'm also sad that they just keep shoving Joker down our throats. While I love the Joker, I'd rather see stories with Penguin or Scarecrow, or hell, even the Ventriloquist! Where's Arnold at, DC?
This reminds me a lot of a Batman book I read once where a member of the court of owls from around 1-2 hundred years in gothams past had perfected a serum that his family had been working on that allowed him to see the future and when he sees the future he sees the history of Batman fighting his rogues and as a screw you to the rest of the court he buried the formula with his love and he made statues surrounding Gotham that could lead people to her grave and when Batman finds these statues he realizes that they are all dressed/look like members of his rogue gallery ivy,two face,bane,joker etc. and that was how Batman realized oh if the court gets this we’re screwed.
I love how Sal described Death of the Family and Endgame as a comedy and a tragedy. Because of how modern language works, you think comedy as something funny and tragedy as something terrible. What I learned in high school was that comedies were simply stories that had a happy ending and tragedies were ones that had a bad ending. I read Macbeth in my senior year, which is a tragedy, but it can be viewed as a comedy if you shifted the focus on Macduff or Malcolm. My peers simply didn't understand that a comedy doesn't have to be funny, and that bothered me when I was analyzing the play. Death of the Family is not a funny book but it has a happy ending for Bruce and his family; and is a comedy. Endgame is a tragedy as the Bruce and the Joker end in a worse spot than when they started.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t death of the family end with the family estranged & Bruce being isolated/alone again? I’m trying to connect the dots but I’m not seeing anyone with a happy ending in death of the family
@@Spurs319 Well, that really depends on which definition you're going with; Aristotle respectively explained/defined comedies and tragedies as being stories that focus on the human condition and human interaction, delving into the errors and mistakes of the characters, and stories that focus on grander or more "important" themes, typically utilizing more archetypal characters to drive the narrative. A tragedy or a comedy don't need to necessarily have a grim or happy ending under this interpretation. Brady White was referring to the Shakespearean interpretation of the terms.
I won’t lie I actually love when the Joker is portrayed as something eldritch and unexplainable? It’s a departure from the more detective focused narratives but god the scenes where they look through old photographs or faded, inkwell written hospital records are so goddamn chilling and good
Finally a new Back Issues I’ve actually read the source material! This new 52 Batman run is what got me into comics back right before Rebirth. Great work as always guys!
As much as I enjoyed this story, it does a few things I'd consider taboo in a Batman comic, but because it's a grand finale, and a send off for the team I can give it a pass. I don't think Scott Snyder needed to keep one-upping himself, it got pretty out of hand, but right here it still hasn't jumped the dragon.
I think this story falls into the category of “Last Batman Stories”; i.e., story arcs that could hypothetically be the final story ever made with that character, and I’d still be satisfied with how it ended. With that in mind, I like that Snyder just went, “fuck it” with this story and just broke all the rules.
No offense to Scott, but I straight up miss these silly yet very comprehensive stories. I haven't had much enjoyment reading most of his DC work ever since Rebirth began. Maybe big epic events just ain't his thing. Not everyone can manage to do what Busiek, Morrison, Johns, Hickman, or several others can. It's perfectly understandable.
This always bugs the shit out of me. If Superman 'wasn't holding back' he would have thrown bruce into the sun with a single throw, or straight up punched the head off of both the robot and bruce with a single punch. If superman is trying to kill Batman, no amoutn of kryptonite or red solar radiation is going to weaken him that much in the time it would take him to just dismantle bruce.
I’m one of the people that really dislikes this arc and doesn’t understand the praise it gets. There are to many things that happen off panel that gets told to us that we never get to see, and it bugs me. How did Joker who is basically a human like Batman poison the whole league which consists of meta-humans? How did he pull off taking over the city that quickly? There is way too much telling and not enough showing in this arc for me. Also the whole Gotham villains coming together to stop Joker comes off as lame and unearned. Nowhere in the run was it shown how the villains feel about Joker. In past Batman stories most of the villains avoid him because he is crazy or just don’t care what he is up to. Feel the villains would be for Joker destroying everything so they can pick up the pieces. This arc needed more issues or to be rethought and focused more🤷🏻♂️
That really confuses me too, like joker can’t beat Batman, but he can consistently just off panel take down the entire justice league?? I can see someone like cyborg or green arrow, but Superman?
@@Smeagolthevile I saw in a Reddit post or maybe it was in the CBR forums before they were wiped in 2014 a post on endgame poking the holes you’re talking about. In the post they said Cyborg has cyborg parts in him that would fight the toxin off, Flash’s immune system is so fast it would kill Jokers toxin, Superman would be able to fight off the toxin along with Wonder Woman. Most people commented that the only way they could see Joker taking down the league is if it was revealed Lex was the big bad behind everything. Joker is the ultimate comic villain but I just can’t see him going toe to toe with many meta-humans.
Let's not forget Flash is so fast Batman wouldn't have time to say anything. The only way it makes any sense if they are fighting it and holding back. The whole Batman can beat anyone thing is so lame and tired and the writers aren't the geniuses the character is supposed to be so it just comes across as bad writing. It undermines Batman rather than making him better. To me all the aliens and Justice League and cosmic stuff Batman gets put in takes away from the vigilante who could be killed at any time by one lucky shot from a nobody. They are barely the same character and I never enjoy it when overpowered version shows up in the actual Batman books, it cheapens everything else.
Kind of funny that you guys did this back issue of Batman endgame. Because recently I was re-reading the Snyder and Capullo New 52 Batman run. And the moment I got to the vlo of Batman endgame you guys came out with this episode I kind of thought that was funny. But I want your opinion on a 2022 mini series of sword of Azrael.
I usual prefer Joker to be kind of a side piece in a story (Batman RIP is a great example. He shows up, does some stuff, gets some laughs, and gets the fuck out), but I really loved Endgame when it came out, so it's really cool to see you guys finally cover it. On that note, I'd love to see you revisit Grant Morrison Batman at some point, but I also understand that his shit is so convoluted that it might not make the best episode. Though i think the Dick Grayson Batman and Damien Wayne Robin books would get a great reaction because they are so fucking bizarre and trippy. Anyway, cheers, appreciate you guys providing entertainment every week!
"They attach the hand when Batman Returns" captions have it capital for Returns lol. Though honestly if I said that line it would be capital as well lol
That moment with Gordon looking through the old pics, he and the reader starting to realize that the Joker is something more than human, and then he’s under the bed….fucking chills.
One of my favorite things about Endgame are the back up stories. I love the Joker theories. Other than that and the amazing art (specially those covers, 40 in particular), I think this story was kind of meh. Specially compared to Death of the Family which is amazing
42:11 I think Tim Seely and Tom King both did that book and yea it’s great the omnibus is getting reprinted this November and I can’t wait to get it 43:08 plus yea one of Kings first books he did at Vertigo was Sheriff of Babylon where he based that series off of his actual experiences in the CIA which I think was a pretty awesomely great fact
I really felt like this could've been a good place for Snyder and Capullo run to end, they'd just wrapped Zero Year and the year long Batman Eternal series just ended too. I wouldn't have been mad if it was cause I did generally enjoy it.
Due to the narrative fake out regarding Joker in this story I thought this would be a Tiffany episode because i love that idea and was hoping they'd adopt it for three jokers when they announced that book
Jesus. I didn't know about that, so I went to go read FB#5 after reading these comments. Geoff Johns needs to calm the fuck down trying to give Joker a solid identity. 3 Jokers was almost a bridge too far as it is.
I had the privilege of meeting Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo at motor city comic con. I asked mr Snyder if his intention in death of the family was that the joker did make it into the bat cave. While he said it kind of ruins the fun knowing if he did or didn’t, he confirmed that his intention was that yes the joker had been in the cave to leave the card for batman.
Snyder said after the issue where Alfred gets his hand chopped off that Endgame was supposed to be his final Batman story with Capullo. It was also supposed to be the last time he would use Joker when writing Batman, but he could change his mind later. Then he said when the Detective Comics #27 anniversary issue came out that Batman Year 200 as a clear homage to Paul Pope’s awesome Batman Year 100 was the death of his Batman with the end of the story. Then he did Last Knight on Earth with the real final story of his Batman run with Capullo.
...So this Joker character. He he seems like he has legs. Probably shouldn't kill him off in his first appearance. That would be a real Lex Luthor move.
yeah it's here, it's one if my favorites (tbh I love Snyder's batman run). The art is also amazing, thanks Capullo for the great art. Looking forward for Batman: Superheavy, even if it is sort of controversial, I still like it, especially the scene/conversation between two characters.
YESS!! No joke I really love this volume of synders run and even if it's all popcorn spectacle and one upping it's in my opinion better than death of the family! Let's go!!!
The James tyninon Batman run was really solid. Especially his detective run . And i was really skeptical of a bat family book. Anyway an example of good batman post Snyder. O and tomasi detective run is really great too. I can't believe I almost forgot that.
Owen Likes Comics did a deep dive into Endgame and more New 52 Batman! ruclips.net/video/CKfQZiQ3J8I/видео.html
I smell a crossover :)
Did Ben wear purple in anticipation for the joker? Thanks guys as always you've brightened my day!
OMG, thank you for doing this story!!!
👍 nice! Looking forward to it.
My favorite line of the episode "He's not a hundred years old... He's an asshole"
This was such a great episode! Endgame is definitely the tragedy to Death of the Family's comedy, and it's one of my favourite takes on the Joker. He's so chilling and sadistic.
I personally view this comic as a really messy breakup, and it greatly increases my enjoyment of it overall. Everything Joker does in this story is meant to get Batman’s attention - mind-controlling the Justice League, unleashing the Joker Virus, breaking the secret identity taboo, all of it. It’s like on every page, he’s screaming, “I don’t care about you! You mean nothing to me! Look at what I can accomplish without you holding me back!” When in reality, that’s just not true - Joker’s the same as he’s ever been, just playing mind games and making jokes, because in the end, he’s nothing without Batman. But the tragedy is that he’s also right, that Batman is nothing without him.
Have you read the extended version?
I love the panels where Jim is crying tears of joy after “killing” the Joker and telling Batman it’s over and you see in the background Joker getting back up. Chills it feels like something straight from a horror movie.
Snyder really writes Joker like a slasher villain and it's usually awesome
Imagine, for a moment, that you are Jim Gordon, and you have just shot the Joker.
Just imagine. This man, this _monster,_ has caused you and your family to undergo indescribable suffering and trauma. He has crippled your daughter. He has murdered your wife. He has tried to drive you insane. He has committed countless atrocities, killed and tortured countless innocents, and every night his horrible laughter rings in your ears and you dream of ending his horrid existence. And now, you have just shot him.
Imagine the sheer _relief_ you must feel, in that instant, because the Joker is dead. He’s dead, and you won. He didn’t drive you mad. He didn’t cause you to abandon your principles. You killed him in self-defense, after giving him a warning and after he gave probable cause - you did it _by the book._ You _won,_ and he’s dead, and every single person that has died, that has suffered, that has grieved their loved ones because of him - they’ve all been avenged. All these years, all this _pain,_ and you did it. It’s over. It’s finally _over._
And then he gets back up. And you realize that you are in Hell, because you are Jim Gordon, and the Joker cannot die. The Joker *will never die.*
I wish what Ethan said was actually Batman’s dialogue.
WW “Maybe we just hate you and want to kill you, because your annoying”
Batman “whaaaat..? No.”
Jokerfied Wonder Woman: “We never liked you, you’re too weak and stupid to ever be our friend”
Batman: “Nuh uh”
Jokerfied WW: “…The fuck do you mean, _nuh uh?”_
@@halfmettlealchemist8076
"Nuh uh" is pretty self explanatory.
2:30 Sal’s look of disappointment on how spot on he was 😂
Reading Scott Snyder’s run is like watching an 80’s action cartoon, and every five minutes a new character or plot point is introduced to sell more toys… like “Hey kids, ask you parents to buy you the new JL BATtle Suit, only $19.99 at your local Toys R’ Us” lol
yeah minus the horror and creepiness and r rated bloodbath fights and batman's psychological trauma
So this story boils down to Joker being a spurned lover and saying "I thought what we had was special?" Makes sense.
This is also the plot of the Lego Batman Movie
Dames. Theyre poison. Drama queens always cutting their faces off to get more attention.
Bitches will enact an elaborate plan to systematically destroy everything their nemesis holds dear and be like, “Can’t help being a Gemini!”
@@joelkirkwood8224 He is, in a way. Joker’s mad that Batman doesn’t take him seriously, and he’s acting out in an attempt to prove him wrong. It’s the supervillain equivalent of trying make your ex jealous.
Yes
My theory is The Joker falls every time because his plan fails and therefore the joke falls flat.
Think a fav moment of mine in the snyder run is seeing Bruce and a cured joker sitting on a bench and talking. Feels like joker doesn't want Bruce to become batman again cos that means he'd have to come back
Favorite of mine too!
It had already been done previously by J M Dematteis in the "going sane" storyline in the 80s in a better way IMO
@@sharpc-tudent im aware of the story but seeing them both meet while changed is nice
@@benhramiak8781 I thought it was good too, but felt it to be a bit derivative to be honest. Still a good moment for sure
@@sharpc-tudent yeah fair
I love how everyone puts comparisons to the signal and the bat signal but forgets that we have a batwing plane and a batwing man
It was so long ago, but that wasn’t even a Snyder decision to have Joker get his face cut off! Tony S. Daniel did that to start the bad Detective Comics New 52 run. Snyder just took that ball and ran with it in Death of the Family.
This story helps support my theory about Batman's enemies knowing his identity...
I think there's more people in Batman's rogue's gallery that know that the secret than he realizes, but much like the Flash, they either keep it to themselves out of a warped sense of respect/honor or they keep it to themselves simply because they don't care who he is under the mask.
I find it best to group his foes into 3 main categories: Those with respect, those with honor, and those who are genuinely crazy.
The first group is those with a respect for Batman: These are people who can be reasoned with and even made into temporary allies. I like to think Ivy, Harley, Two-Face, and Man-Bat, and Firefly know who he is, but keep quiet because they respect him for having the guts to fight them rather than roll over and give in like any normal person would.
The second group is those with Honor: These are the ones who only fight when they have to. Ones who are content to be left alone if possible. For example, I think Bane keeps his secret from a warped sense of honor. Like if he told people, it would put people like Alfred, Lucius, and others in the line of fire, and that wouldn't be fair because they did nothing to deserve that. Penguin also can be put in this category. Same goes for people like Deathstroke and Ra's Al Gul. Mr. Freeze also fits in here to an extent.
Then there's the REALLY crazy ones, and they keep the secret because revealing it would leave them with no else to fight. They keep his secret because on some level, they can't imagine what to do if they aren't fighting him. In this category are Joker, Scarecrow, and Hush. They have a pathological NEED to fight and be stopped. Even if they don't admit it, some part of them WANTS to fail. They want him to stop them, because they can't think of a life beyond this. Its why they have really outlandish costumes, or use weird ass calling cards to tell Batman who they are.
Now, I will say, this is all just conjecture. Its my personal take on the topic, and I don't really have any evidence to support it directly, but there have been times in the comics that kinda support this idea. As with any theory, take it with a bit of salt unless it has proof.
This is an intense, exciting arc from start to finish, but what really makes it one of the best Batman & Joker stories of all time is their battle at the end. Their fight is so brutal and bloody that it almost did feel like the final Batman story. Almost.
I want to see Riddler sue The Joker over the "Eric Border" naming scheme. It could be a legit court case, but everyone outside of Joker and Riddler thinks its a big scheme.
The Court Case of Jokes and Riddles
“Identity theft is not a joke, Jack! Millions of people suffer every year!”
He did something like with Arthur Wynne the Batman Hush movie
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache that's a banger title right there
Grayson's been hanging onto this plan since "Batman: The Black Mirror" and his meeting with the Joker.
*Grayson:* "I'm not _your_ Batman, am I? Well guess what! How about that's the crux of this whole plan, you fool! I gotcha!"
*Joker:* "Jesus, Dick."
*Grayson:* "Yes I am!"
wait wasn't this during the time where everyone thought Dick grayson nightwing was dead.
@@dn22pkkdd476 yup he became a spy
I was thinking this! I imagine this being dicks middle finger moment for the joker being like Ha I got you. Which is crazy cause it shows that dick has grown like he fits the role to the point where none of the batfamily guess that he was Batman for a portion of that fight
@@javonwalker-peters lol that would be really funny if he actually did that to joker.
@@benparrish672 Tim Drake actually makes a lot more sense as the one taking up the mantle in the future since he is the most like Bruce. Cassandra Cain believes in Bruce’s vision the most. Batman and Robin by Morrison featuring Dick was great and I love Batman: The Black Mirror, but Dick isn’t the best option to be Batman as the heir with his personality. Did you ever read A Lonely Place of Living? The way Tynion explained the Titans Tomorrow Tim’s back story with incorporating Damian’s Batman from Batman #666 was great where Tim killed Damian since Damian went too far. Dick would never kill anyone. The Knights of Tomorrow episode of Brave and the Bold is awesome. The Joker kills Bruce and Selina leading to Dick becoming Batman in that episode and Damian becomes Robin. They fight and defeat Joker and Joker Jr.
Three heavy hitters and Aquaman! I screamed lol shady af
But Metal was REALLY the last time he wanted to use joker. Really!
*last Knight on earth enters the chat”
Endgame’s one of my fav stories from Snyder’s run and one of my fav Batman comics period. Wish we’d get more stories that explore Batman and Joker’s relationship like this. Great episode
All these years learning about comics and watching Back Issues and finally at last it's a full arc that I've read and have a copy of. So this time I'm gonna follow right along with Sal, Ethan and Ben on the couch.
This is really the first one? Crazy.
Great episode! I'm glad Sal has grown more fond of the Snyder and Capullo run.
It's always been one of my favorite, if not my absolute favorite run on the character.
I'm reminded of The Animation Show whenever the transition from Endgame to Superheavy comes up
"I hope we all learned a little something about the fascinating world of Batman today, and can now think about it a little differently, a Batman comic isn't just a random series of mindless, self-indulgent, violent sequential images, meant only to be enjoyed by young children , but is a serious art medium. All into which the artist is---ROBOTS!"
This was a very special period in comics for me. I was still new and Green Lantern - my entry book - was falling apart. Then you had #DCYou come in and give me my first "Everything you like will change" moment in comics. Gordon was Batman, Hal Jordan has a mullet and trenchcoat in 2014, Superman was fist fighting and riding motorcycles with a buzz cut, Aquaman was Conan, and Wonder Woman actually was the best member of the Trinity by default for like a year. I almost quit on principal but here I remain lol.
Those years were a bit rough indeed. Thankfully DC and Marvel publish a few great runs every now and then. Modern comics are getting real fackin' stupid unfortunately. Too many of them.
@@Martin_TheCollector Yeah I legit had All New Ghost Rider and Secret Wars going on too. And I think the Beauty was coming out at Image too.
@@TheGreatDevlin I love Secret Wars! Missed out on getting a beautiful oversized hardcover. Think I had the first volume of Beauty but sadly didn't take the time to read it. Sold a buncha books.
@@Martin_TheCollector The Beauty was one of the first comics where I was afraid to turn the page bc I knew someone was gonna die. And the premise is fascinating: a STD that makes you the most attractive version of yourself and the effect it has on society.
@@TheGreatDevlin Oh Snaps!! Guess I should've read it. These days I mainly collect big HC's, would be awesome if that series got some. There's many indies that deserve that format. Joshua Williamson's "Birthright" included.
Yesss please do Last Knight on Earth. It’s wild hahah
Probably my favorite scene in Snyder’s run is when amnesiac Bruce and Joker are sitting on the bench together talking.
God I cant wait for Last Knight On Earth. I remember when Capullo first tweeted that he was doing his last story ever and everyone was freaking out about it. So good
... I still think the leader of the Court of Owls should have been, like, an ancient Elliot or Cobblepot or Wayne. Specifically, since it's a court, it should have been Judge Solomon Wayne.
My headcanon is that Simon Hurt/the original Thomas Wayne from Grant Morrison’s Batman run is the true founder of the Court of Owls. I think that would be a pretty cool retcon, considering that it’s been established that the leaders of the Court worship Barbatos, and Hurt founded the original Cult of Barbatos in Gotham, so tying those plot points together would make sense.
My headcanon is that Bane was inpired by this event to do City of Bane.
Makes sense
love how Nightwing gets an important play!
YES FINALLY!!!! I've waited years to see this covered on Back Issues. Snyder's run was far superior to King's and yet his arcs were covered more on the couch I assume cause it's so much easier to make fun of. But this is just pure quality. Not saying it's perfect, but it was so dang epic and fun.
In regards to the Lark and Signal names, 5 years ago I said on Twitter in a response that Signal wasn’t a good name. Scott Snyder then sent me a DM saying “Lark wouldn’t carry it’s (wrong its Scott!) own book imo. I like Signal! :)” Of course the Signal to this day doesn’t carry a book. I said Bluebird worked as a name and there’s a butterfly called the Golden Birdwing where there’s a cool name somewhere in there. He didn’t respond back, but it was cool that he sent me a DM!
Love the spiritual follow-up to an episode you did... over eight years ago? That episode inspired me to collect the entirety of the Snyder/Capullo run, with this story being the only hardcover volume among the other trades. Can't have a trade run without one entry standing out!
The best part is this comic, beat for beat, is the exact plot of the Lego Batman Movie and I feel like I’m the only person who has realized this
The upside down bat-signal lmao
Just finished re-reading the Snyder capullo run the other day, and I got to say it kinda burnt me out on the joker. If you just look at the big event style storylines, half of them heavily feature the joker (if you count red hood in zero year or last knight on earth), which made me really wish we got to see more of Batman’s rogues gallery. I would have adored to see their take on scarecrow or two-face, who both would’ve been awesome to see with the horror inspired tone of the art and writing.
Snyder saying as Metal was happening that he could do a Scarecrow story, but isn’t interested was incredibly disappointing. I really liked All Star Batman which was a Two-Face story with Romita Jr.’s best art since the JMS run. He is finally good again in the current Spider-Man run. The Last Knight on Earth with the final issue stinks and Snyder overused Joker.
@@DanV900 I think Romita Jr.’s art is always good, but needs right colorist to not screw it up.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 His Superman comic art was not great where his inker does matter a lot, but that was not up to his standards.
@@DanV900 it’s kinda sad that the writing in last knight on earth kinda sucks, because I think it probably has some of Capullo’s best art on Batman. Aside from Omega, who is just generic evil Batman number 108, Batman in a strait jacket carrying the jokers head in a lamp looks really cool, and the spider-scarecrow riding around on a zombified banes back is pretty creepy. Though all of that is pretty much ditched by the third issue. But I guess it fulfilled it purpose, which is make me kinda want the McFarlane figures
As a Joker fan, I'm also sad that they just keep shoving Joker down our throats. While I love the Joker, I'd rather see stories with Penguin or Scarecrow, or hell, even the Ventriloquist! Where's Arnold at, DC?
I ADORE this story. Easily my favourite Batman vs Joker story.
This reminds me a lot of a Batman book I read once where a member of the court of owls from around 1-2 hundred years in gothams past had perfected a serum that his family had been working on that allowed him to see the future and when he sees the future he sees the history of Batman fighting his rogues and as a screw you to the rest of the court he buried the formula with his love and he made statues surrounding Gotham that could lead people to her grave and when Batman finds these statues he realizes that they are all dressed/look like members of his rogue gallery ivy,two face,bane,joker etc. and that was how Batman realized oh if the court gets this we’re screwed.
please tell me what book this is ive never heard of that, please!
@@johnskinner9697 it is called court of owls by Greg cox
I love how Sal described Death of the Family and Endgame as a comedy and a tragedy. Because of how modern language works, you think comedy as something funny and tragedy as something terrible. What I learned in high school was that comedies were simply stories that had a happy ending and tragedies were ones that had a bad ending. I read Macbeth in my senior year, which is a tragedy, but it can be viewed as a comedy if you shifted the focus on Macduff or Malcolm. My peers simply didn't understand that a comedy doesn't have to be funny, and that bothered me when I was analyzing the play. Death of the Family is not a funny book but it has a happy ending for Bruce and his family; and is a comedy. Endgame is a tragedy as the Bruce and the Joker end in a worse spot than when they started.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t death of the family end with the family estranged & Bruce being isolated/alone again? I’m trying to connect the dots but I’m not seeing anyone with a happy ending in death of the family
@@Spurs319 Well, that really depends on which definition you're going with; Aristotle respectively explained/defined comedies and tragedies as being stories that focus on the human condition and human interaction, delving into the errors and mistakes of the characters, and stories that focus on grander or more "important" themes, typically utilizing more archetypal characters to drive the narrative. A tragedy or a comedy don't need to necessarily have a grim or happy ending under this interpretation.
Brady White was referring to the Shakespearean interpretation of the terms.
great job guys on this great episode of back issues on batman endgame.
"Parents die, fuck you, shutup!"
That is basically Batman's Robin recruitment speech to the tee.
52:30 lol the owls
25:29
At lest it’s not joe keer
Oh man, I've been waiting for this episode! An hour and a half long no less!
I won’t lie I actually love when the Joker is portrayed as something eldritch and unexplainable? It’s a departure from the more detective focused narratives but god the scenes where they look through old photographs or faded, inkwell written hospital records are so goddamn chilling and good
Finally a new Back Issues I’ve actually read the source material! This new 52 Batman run is what got me into comics back right before Rebirth. Great work as always guys!
At least his name isn’t Jo Ker. Also Huntress is in the Grayson book.
I'm really hoping we get the Tiffany episode on Superheavy cause as much as DCU was a disaster, Superheavy was cool as hell
Over seven years ago, I requested this episode. It's funny to see it finally on the couch, after all this time.
As much as I enjoyed this story, it does a few things I'd consider taboo in a Batman comic, but because it's a grand finale, and a send off for the team I can give it a pass.
I don't think Scott Snyder needed to keep one-upping himself, it got pretty out of hand, but right here it still hasn't jumped the dragon.
I think this story falls into the category of “Last Batman Stories”; i.e., story arcs that could hypothetically be the final story ever made with that character, and I’d still be satisfied with how it ended. With that in mind, I like that Snyder just went, “fuck it” with this story and just broke all the rules.
Jumped the dragon is the perfect phrase to describe Snyder Batman run post metal
@@xanderreimers4445 That wasn’t post-Metal, that was during Metal lol.
@@DanV900 Ik, I meant including and after
No offense to Scott, but I straight up miss these silly yet very comprehensive stories. I haven't had much enjoyment reading most of his DC work ever since Rebirth began. Maybe big epic events just ain't his thing. Not everyone can manage to do what Busiek, Morrison, Johns, Hickman, or several others can. It's perfectly understandable.
“I will see this city burn to the ground before I ever ask Huntress for a hand.” Goddamn thats so funny
This always bugs the shit out of me. If Superman 'wasn't holding back' he would have thrown bruce into the sun with a single throw, or straight up punched the head off of both the robot and bruce with a single punch. If superman is trying to kill Batman, no amoutn of kryptonite or red solar radiation is going to weaken him that much in the time it would take him to just dismantle bruce.
I’m one of the people that really dislikes this arc and doesn’t understand the praise it gets. There are to many things that happen off panel that gets told to us that we never get to see, and it bugs me. How did Joker who is basically a human like Batman poison the whole league which consists of meta-humans? How did he pull off taking over the city that quickly? There is way too much telling and not enough showing in this arc for me. Also the whole Gotham villains coming together to stop Joker comes off as lame and unearned. Nowhere in the run was it shown how the villains feel about Joker. In past Batman stories most of the villains avoid him because he is crazy or just don’t care what he is up to. Feel the villains would be for Joker destroying everything so they can pick up the pieces. This arc needed more issues or to be rethought and focused more🤷🏻♂️
That really confuses me too, like joker can’t beat Batman, but he can consistently just off panel take down the entire justice league?? I can see someone like cyborg or green arrow, but Superman?
@@Smeagolthevile I saw in a Reddit post or maybe it was in the CBR forums before they were wiped in 2014 a post on endgame poking the holes you’re talking about. In the post they said Cyborg has cyborg parts in him that would fight the toxin off, Flash’s immune system is so fast it would kill Jokers toxin, Superman would be able to fight off the toxin along with Wonder Woman. Most people commented that the only way they could see Joker taking down the league is if it was revealed Lex was the big bad behind everything. Joker is the ultimate comic villain but I just can’t see him going toe to toe with many meta-humans.
Let's not forget Flash is so fast Batman wouldn't have time to say anything. The only way it makes any sense if they are fighting it and holding back.
The whole Batman can beat anyone thing is so lame and tired and the writers aren't the geniuses the character is supposed to be so it just comes across as bad writing.
It undermines Batman rather than making him better. To me all the aliens and Justice League and cosmic stuff Batman gets put in takes away from the vigilante who could be killed at any time by one lucky shot from a nobody. They are barely the same character and I never enjoy it when overpowered version shows up in the actual Batman books, it cheapens everything else.
My guess is Joker didn't want Batman dead, but I'm not sure how exactly he programmed that into Superman or something.
This comic is why the statement "Batman dies in Endgame" really isn't a joke spoiler.
This story.. was excellent. But the way you guys told it was even better💯👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
The beginning of this episode, "I guess I judged Snyder too harshly" is so true cause like Batman was the only redeeming part of New52
I saw the notification and clicked automatically. Comicpop Hype!
Kind of funny that you guys did this back issue of Batman endgame. Because recently I was re-reading the Snyder and Capullo New 52 Batman run. And the moment I got to the vlo of Batman endgame you guys came out with this episode I kind of thought that was funny. But I want your opinion on a 2022 mini series of sword of Azrael.
I usual prefer Joker to be kind of a side piece in a story (Batman RIP is a great example. He shows up, does some stuff, gets some laughs, and gets the fuck out), but I really loved Endgame when it came out, so it's really cool to see you guys finally cover it.
On that note, I'd love to see you revisit Grant Morrison Batman at some point, but I also understand that his shit is so convoluted that it might not make the best episode. Though i think the Dick Grayson Batman and Damien Wayne Robin books would get a great reaction because they are so fucking bizarre and trippy.
Anyway, cheers, appreciate you guys providing entertainment every week!
37:18
Jim he broke into your house, he’s open season at this point man
"They attach the hand when Batman Returns" captions have it capital for Returns lol. Though honestly if I said that line it would be capital as well lol
Thank you! Such a fun run all along the way!
34:20 A hospital With a dark past in Gotham? Sounds like every other place in Gotham. What has gotten right
That moment with Gordon looking through the old pics, he and the reader starting to realize that the Joker is something more than human, and then he’s under the bed….fucking chills.
The first part of this story was the first comic I ever picked up. Awesome to see you guys doing this story!
One of my favorite things about Endgame are the back up stories. I love the Joker theories. Other than that and the amazing art (specially those covers, 40 in particular), I think this story was kind of meh. Specially compared to Death of the Family which is amazing
Let's go, one of the first Batman comics I ever read lol
Listening to this I cant help but think a reference to batman cult's cult leader as the potential immortal would have interesting.
Would love to see Super Heavy
42:11 I think Tim Seely and Tom King both did that book and yea it’s great the omnibus is getting reprinted this November and I can’t wait to get it
43:08 plus yea one of Kings first books he did at Vertigo was Sheriff of Babylon where he based that series off of his actual experiences in the CIA which I think was a pretty awesomely great fact
I really felt like this could've been a good place for Snyder and Capullo run to end, they'd just wrapped Zero Year and the year long Batman Eternal series just ended too. I wouldn't have been mad if it was cause I did generally enjoy it.
Due to the narrative fake out regarding Joker in this story I thought this would be a Tiffany episode because i love that idea and was hoping they'd adopt it for three jokers when they announced that book
*At the joker identity thing with no one caring* haha that didn't age well at all.
No it didn't. Nobody cares.
@@comicpop I know no one cares but it's funny this episode dropped exactly the week they decided to go "Hey JOKERS NAME IS X" like anyone would care
Jesus. I didn't know about that, so I went to go read FB#5 after reading these comments. Geoff Johns needs to calm the fuck down trying to give Joker a solid identity. 3 Jokers was almost a bridge too far as it is.
I like the eric border idea tbh. Cos joker's smart enough to think of it and use it to spy on batman
I just love how the book opens with ‘How to defeat the Justice League 101’.
I had the privilege of meeting Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo at motor city comic con. I asked mr Snyder if his intention in death of the family was that the joker did make it into the bat cave. While he said it kind of ruins the fun knowing if he did or didn’t, he confirmed that his intention was that yes the joker had been in the cave to leave the card for batman.
This definitely has been the best episode in a while. I love this show so much
Would love to see you guys cover Superheavy!
Just saying, I am super down for Superheavy being covered in the future! (Fuu-cha! *harmonica solo*) I really dug it too☆
Snyder said after the issue where Alfred gets his hand chopped off that Endgame was supposed to be his final Batman story with Capullo. It was also supposed to be the last time he would use Joker when writing Batman, but he could change his mind later. Then he said when the Detective Comics #27 anniversary issue came out that Batman Year 200 as a clear homage to Paul Pope’s awesome Batman Year 100 was the death of his Batman with the end of the story. Then he did Last Knight on Earth with the real final story of his Batman run with Capullo.
So what we said.
To me Bluebird will always be Sally Avril and a Spider man character.
I know New52 gets poo poo'd on sometimes but it'll always be special to me because that was my jumping on point for comics.
Great work guys. Very funny episode. Needed this after a long day
I'm looking forward to seeing Ben & Ethan's reaction to _Superheavy_
I guess it’s better being called Bluebird rather than Bluetit if we go with bird names
Hoot hoot makes it's reappearance! I love it and it made my day!
...So this Joker character. He he seems like he has legs. Probably shouldn't kill him off in his first appearance. That would be a real Lex Luthor move.
The fight between Batman and Joker at the end near the Pit is just the perfect culmination of their weird twisted relationship
I always hated how badly Batman fights in Snyder’s run. Batman is supposed to be the best fighter and in that fight he just swings wildly at Joker
This book has more Bat Godding than Morrison could have ever seen in a mushroom trip.
Have I entered a new reality? Because for some reason I can remember you guys doing Last Knight on Earth.
yeah it's here, it's one if my favorites (tbh I love Snyder's batman run). The art is also amazing, thanks Capullo for the great art. Looking forward for Batman: Superheavy, even if it is sort of controversial, I still like it, especially the scene/conversation between two characters.
You GOTTA do superheavy! Give us the Batbunny suit!
Reading it in single issues for the first time... every cliffhanger was awesome and I wanted more.
I've been working forward to this.
YESS!! No joke I really love this volume of synders run and even if it's all popcorn spectacle and one upping it's in my opinion better than death of the family! Let's go!!!
Always a fun time!!
Can't wait to see you guys do Last Knight on Earth, been one of my favorites since it came out.
The James tyninon Batman run was really solid. Especially his detective run . And i was really skeptical of a bat family book. Anyway an example of good batman post Snyder. O and tomasi detective run is really great too. I can't believe I almost forgot that.
This Batman attack on Titan crossover go hard.
Please do Super Heavy!
Can't wait for the super heavy arc. That was surprisingly neat
I hope we get more nightwing comics for back issue
I loved zero year but I love a Batman origin I’m loving zadarski the knight origin too