Recently one of my friends came over to my garage, looked at what I was doing, and said "Every time I come over here, you're making a new tool to fix another tool you've broken." I felt very attacked, but your channel always reminds me that I'm not the only one. But I do think it's just the two of us.
I recently made a cap that screws onto the top of my spindle which serves as an auto eject for the drawbar. It's a total gamechanger, no more hammering the drawbar to get the collets out. Looks like your spindle isn't threaded though, which would make it more difficult.
That is a great idea. My mill is an old Southbend so I don’t have a drawbar but I think he might look into it. Also, am I the only one thinking about his hex head mushrooming? I know it’s soft so, maybe a domed top. Hmmm
Not planned, but content is content... I like projects like this in between. It shows the everyday life in workshop way more than the ultra clean super high gloss projects. Everybody with a workshop, wheter metal, wood or anything else, know these "side-projects". It always reminds me of Hal from "Malcom in the middle", as he was just changing a light bulb and ended laying under the car...
The replacement drawbar I have in my Bridgeport is dual life so when the thread wears out the end is cut off and a spacer removed from the top to use the new threaded section already provided. That went in maybe 20 years ago and no sign of needing the first threaded section removing yet but it's better material than the 1020 you used and no damage to the R8 threads which are harder.
The mild steel makes the most sense to me too, anything of equivalent toughness or hardness to your tooling is also going to work harden as you knock it around making the tool destruction problem even more likely and you definitely don't want a draw bar stuck in the machine well that chatter is a noise you don't want to put up with for long ....wow yuck Spotted the blacksmiths goto rivet material...a cut down nail. Its pretty much all I use nails for now lol Thanks for sharing
Well thought out job. I had the same problem of sloppy draw bar fit in my mill so I turned up a brass bush and pressed it into the top of the quill for a better fit on the draw bar. It reduced vibes at the faster speeds. It's also much nicer to use.
What is the hardness of the tools vs the hardness of the draw bar...could the draw bar be partially hardened for longevity, but be softer than the tool steel threads? Either way great job and definitely makes it much more useful! The whole point of having a lathe and mill are to make more tools and parts for your lathe and mill ;) Keep em coming!!!!
My drawbar is fine but after watching this video I want to make a new one as per your clever design! I like the combination of the hammer and the socket wrench.
You nailed it on your analysis. The drawbar is a wear part. If it is made correctly, it should take the abuse and not the tool holder. In fact it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a spare on hand for when it wears out again.
A big problem might be just how mangy the internal threads of the tool holder are, it may be good to go through and deburr the peaks so that nothing is being driven into the threads as you tighten it.
When the rod slipped on the tailstock point: a small step on the rod would have supported the axial pressure from the carbide tool, which can get very high during the cut. Enjoyed the video, also noe you will know when the threads start to go south nest time. Cheers!
My original draw bar is 1/2"-13TPI. As a super cheap and quick solution to accept 12mm×1.75 MT3 Arbors, I just used a piece of 12mm HT threaded rod and 2 nuts locked together as a perfectly suitable draw bar, has worked just fine for nearly 20yrs🤣
Josh over at Topper Machine LLC has made a video on his drawbar. He made the threaded part replaceable, of course that only works if your spindle bore is big enough for a thicker draw bar
@@tristansimonin1376 - My workshop is in my highly ventilated cellar and currently very cold, so it’ll be a while before I motivate myself to do anything down there.
Ya know, i was going to say why not use a left handed screw to retain the hex socket. Then i remembered you have to turn it both ways. My next great idea is a screw that left and right handed😅.
For the hammer, I wonder if you could shorten one side and mount a ratcheting breaker bar adapter so that you could ratchet the drawbar in and out. Might get damaged by being attached to a hammer though
I’ve made a new drawbar for my Bridgeport not too long ago. The original draw bar threads were quite stretched so I decided to start with an off the shelf 12.9 class allen head screw. TIG welded that to a CK45 (1045) rod with some pre-heat to reach the necessary length and pin&weld a hexagonal top to it to go on top. I’ve yet to have any problems with it.
This is a great "any port in a storm" sort of fix to get it back up and running! The hammer modification and recycling of an old project is a nice touch in breathing new life into an old part. When you mentioned that you had to hit the old draw bar 10 to 20 times, was that the indicator of the original piece failing or a common problem? If it's the latter, you may want to add more mass to the hammer head or grab a chunk of something dense like copper. I've found a common issue that some millrights I've worked with face is that when something doesn't move when you want it to, it's usually better to actually grab a bigger hammer than hit it more times with the same one. It seems so brutish but tends to lead to less parts wear. Cheers and best of luck in the new year!
Happy new year! Hope to follow along for your projects. I like the Hammer Design, personally I was thinking of adding a ratcheting attachment like the facom J.156. Or is the threading just so little that it isn't worth a ratchet?
Urgh - watching those "hot spring" chips coming off gave me flashbacks to a recent project of mine, those bloody things go everywhere. I wound up using a metal garbage bin lid as a shield in an attempt to stop them flying all over my shed.
They always seem to get stuck between your foot and the thong straps, and if HOT they immediately weld themselves in place by melting the thong strap and/or foot flesh... which results in colourful language
Genuine question: at 15:05 why cut a thread relief if you're going to cut the threads with a die? Isn't that groove specifically for giving yourself a space to disengage the power feed during single point thread cutting?
Nut doesn't cut full sized threads until about half way in, because of the lead on the inside cutting edge. So its room for the Die Nut to come past the lead of its cutting profile and cut full sized threads to the end
What threading die?.....he screw cut the thread and then tried the threaded end of the morse tapered collet holder onto the cut thread for a check on the fit.....there was no threading die used.
@@jamestaylor7694 There was no threading die used at all...the thread was screw cut to final size. The undercut is for a clearance gutter when stopping the cut with the thread insert.
Excellent build. Will the hex head mushroom out to the point where it will eventually no longer fit into the socket after many hammer blows? The chamfering helps, but I think your previous Allen broach design mitigates it entirely. You might want to broach one just in case, plus it lets you use either hammer.
I just got a small mil very similar to yours. Do you have a recommendation for a dro? I'm planning on doing some of the same improvements you have done on yours.
material choice is fine. Its sacrificial part. I'd have used the 1045 just cause it had a closer starting OD. Less turning. Pretty much any steel would work, I'd just stay away from work hardening steels or steels that gum up threads when they strip (17-4 stainless does both, for example). Other than that, whatever is in the scrap bin works. Happy New Year! & There's a nice long comment for the engagement algorithm!
_"I'd have used the 1045 just cause it had a closer starting OD"_ That is very often the decider for me 😂Turning stacks of material down on my old lathe not only takes a ridiculous amount of time, it's also pretty wasteful. Guaranteed if I did this I'd be needing the larger diameter bar for another project just afterwards.
I know nothing, but a) isn't there a less damaging way to remove mill tool holders (like driving a wedge just above the tool holder) and b) how are you single-point threading without a compound slide?
Striking the top of the drawbar is how they are intended to be used. That drawbar just wasn't hard enough, and though I understand the reasoning for not wanting to damage the collet holder, they are normal significantly harder than this.
@@simonilett998 When you use the cross side both sides of the tool are cutting which does increase loading and typically produces a rougher finish. Ideally you use the top slide to feed in a just a little less (half a degree or so) than the thread angle so the leading edge of the tool is doing the bulk of the cutting.
if you really needed to, you could have turned down the spacer shoulder thing at the top of the drawbar and then cut off enough stripped threads to allow the drawbar to fully seat again.
@@Darkassassin09 it failed from 4 years of hammering many hundreds of times on those threads, if it engaged new threads then it should be just fine for another few years. regardless it would have been basically required if he couldnt have gotten that 1 single thread of engagement into the collet when cutting the hex on the new one.
Making the new drawbar while using the broken one, that's working barely, that was a close call. Please make a spare one (or get a simple threaded rod and 2 nuts, in case of emergency) now.
Happy New Year! When you were talking about which steel to use my mind instantly went to the 1020 for the same reasons you gave, where I think a more naiive machinist would have gone for the "better" steel. Great minds think alike I guess.
I like to hit the side of the tool instead of the top of the drawbar for this reason, a soft / semi soft mallet usually and i dont even need to hit that hard for the tool to drop out
Of course, because you don't need a hammer to get the drawbar out of any milling machine. Rather, you hammer the end of the drawbar to get the tool holder out of the spindle🤣🤣🤣
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According to your usual comments, none of this would have happened if you bought a bandsaw.
All of these projects are actually all eventually leading to him making his own bandsaw
😂
Facts.
Recently one of my friends came over to my garage, looked at what I was doing, and said "Every time I come over here, you're making a new tool to fix another tool you've broken." I felt very attacked, but your channel always reminds me that I'm not the only one. But I do think it's just the two of us.
trust me its not just the 2 of you hahaha
Nice friend 😂
Chamfer the end of the threads, you animal!
Also, I love the hacksaw trolling you do! 🤣
Chamfers. It separates us from the animals.
@StangspringDK Exactly!
I guess he doesn't watch Blondihacks
@@GeoffTV2 *SMH!*
@@StangspringDK The blonde lady is a terrible machinist.
Broo, until you started talking at 1 min, I thought this was inheritance machining due to the thumbnail 😂. Love your vids as well ❤
Same here.
@@Kineth1 me too
I recently made a cap that screws onto the top of my spindle which serves as an auto eject for the drawbar. It's a total gamechanger, no more hammering the drawbar to get the collets out. Looks like your spindle isn't threaded though, which would make it more difficult.
i put a thrust bearing between my spindle and my drawbar, protecting the spindle, as well as making opening/closiing the drawbar a bit more positive
That is a great idea. My mill is an old Southbend so I don’t have a drawbar but I think he might look into it.
Also, am I the only one thinking about his hex head mushrooming? I know it’s soft so, maybe a domed top. Hmmm
Not planned, but content is content...
I like projects like this in between. It shows the everyday life in workshop way more than the ultra clean super high gloss projects.
Everybody with a workshop, wheter metal, wood or anything else, know these "side-projects".
It always reminds me of Hal from "Malcom in the middle", as he was just changing a light bulb and ended laying under the car...
The way you removed the socket packaging 😂
The replacement drawbar I have in my Bridgeport is dual life so when the thread wears out the end is cut off and a spacer removed from the top to use the new threaded section already provided. That went in maybe 20 years ago and no sign of needing the first threaded section removing yet but it's better material than the 1020 you used and no damage to the R8 threads which are harder.
14:33 - Confirmation that it is a meme and he's trolling us back...
Maybe part-hardening only the nut on the top of the drawing-bar?
that hacksaw! it needs a name, its been in every video for as long as i've been following your channel.
The mild steel makes the most sense to me too, anything of equivalent toughness or hardness to your tooling is also going to work harden as you knock it around making the tool destruction problem even more likely and you definitely don't want a draw bar stuck in the machine
well that chatter is a noise you don't want to put up with for long ....wow yuck
Spotted the blacksmiths goto rivet material...a cut down nail. Its pretty much all I use nails for now lol
Thanks for sharing
Loved this. Especially good problem solving on the conversion of the stored machinist hammer to accept the hex socket! 🤩
hacksawing the plastic of the socket ftw! :D
Just imagine how much easier that would've been with a proper band saw. If only someone would suggest he get one, but alas...
@@TheDonutMan3000 Well, yes, but it would not be Artisanal enough :D
@@TheDonutMan3000 I still don't understand why people are obsessed with his use of a hand hacksaw.
Well thought out job.
I had the same problem of sloppy draw bar fit in my mill so I turned up a brass bush and pressed it into the top of the quill for a better fit on the draw bar. It reduced vibes at the faster speeds. It's also much nicer to use.
What is the hardness of the tools vs the hardness of the draw bar...could the draw bar be partially hardened for longevity, but be softer than the tool steel threads?
Either way great job and definitely makes it much more useful! The whole point of having a lathe and mill are to make more tools and parts for your lathe and mill ;)
Keep em coming!!!!
I like the hammer / socket modification. Definitely going to do that.
Great idea with that socket adapter for your hammer! Simple, but works.
Happy new year!
My drawbar is fine but after watching this video I want to make a new one as per your clever design! I like the combination of the hammer and the socket wrench.
maybe you make another spare-part before the next 4,5 years are over ... 😅
elegant solution 👏🏻
You nailed it on your analysis. The drawbar is a wear part. If it is made correctly, it should take the abuse and not the tool holder. In fact it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a spare on hand for when it wears out again.
Fantastic work, dude! It turned out great! Definitely better than the old one! 😃
Happy new year!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
i wonder if you could make the drawbar captive at the top, so that when you unscrew it ejects the collet out
A big problem might be just how mangy the internal threads of the tool holder are, it may be good to go through and deburr the peaks so that nothing is being driven into the threads as you tighten it.
When the rod slipped on the tailstock point: a small step on the rod would have supported the axial pressure from the carbide tool, which can get very high during the cut.
Enjoyed the video, also noe you will know when the threads start to go south nest time. Cheers!
My original draw bar is 1/2"-13TPI.
As a super cheap and quick solution to accept 12mm×1.75 MT3 Arbors, I just used a piece of 12mm HT threaded rod and 2 nuts locked together as a perfectly suitable draw bar, has worked just fine for nearly 20yrs🤣
Josh over at Topper Machine LLC has made a video on his drawbar. He made the threaded part replaceable, of course that only works if your spindle bore is big enough for a thicker draw bar
Or use make big nut on top with threaded rod pinned in it. Dirt cheap and known strength grade.
Another cool video from across the globe. Sweet.
My drawbar is actually a M12 threaded rod with 2 nuts 😂
Great idea, albeit not a good 20min RUclips video. The simplest ideas are usually the best. I’ll probably do the same once my drawbar needs replacing.
@daveys I would love to have the motivation to make a new one 😂
No that's mine 😂
I too will just use M10 threaded rod and make a nice nut on top once mine breaks. As someone else said it, that way it does not make youtube video.
@@tristansimonin1376 - My workshop is in my highly ventilated cellar and currently very cold, so it’ll be a while before I motivate myself to do anything down there.
Hi thanks for the video. I think you could improve the service life of the threads by case hardening them. Cheers from Ian in Canada.
Nice repair.
Thanks for sharing.
Ya know, i was going to say why not use a left handed screw to retain the hex socket. Then i remembered you have to turn it both ways. My next great idea is a screw that left and right handed😅.
For the hammer, I wonder if you could shorten one side and mount a ratcheting breaker bar adapter so that you could ratchet the drawbar in and out. Might get damaged by being attached to a hammer though
I’ve made a new drawbar for my Bridgeport not too long ago. The original draw bar threads were quite stretched so I decided to start with an off the shelf 12.9 class allen head screw. TIG welded that to a CK45 (1045) rod with some pre-heat to reach the necessary length and pin&weld a hexagonal top to it to go on top. I’ve yet to have any problems with it.
With the er collets, seems you do not need the power (less) "quick change" system?
Thanks for continuing to share your experiences!
This is a great "any port in a storm" sort of fix to get it back up and running! The hammer modification and recycling of an old project is a nice touch in breathing new life into an old part.
When you mentioned that you had to hit the old draw bar 10 to 20 times, was that the indicator of the original piece failing or a common problem? If it's the latter, you may want to add more mass to the hammer head or grab a chunk of something dense like copper. I've found a common issue that some millrights I've worked with face is that when something doesn't move when you want it to, it's usually better to actually grab a bigger hammer than hit it more times with the same one. It seems so brutish but tends to lead to less parts wear.
Cheers and best of luck in the new year!
I never knew that red thread locker works like a good cutting fluid.
Happy new year! Hope to follow along for your projects.
I like the Hammer Design, personally I was thinking of adding a ratcheting attachment like the facom J.156. Or is the threading just so little that it isn't worth a ratchet?
Are you planning on doing an automatic feed on this milling machine?
Can't believe I wasn't subscribed! Fixed it. 🔔
Great choice get that 3 jaw chuck off asap, the ER type collets should have less run-out 💯
Urgh - watching those "hot spring" chips coming off gave me flashbacks to a recent project of mine, those bloody things go everywhere. I wound up using a metal garbage bin lid as a shield in an attempt to stop them flying all over my shed.
They always seem to get stuck between your foot and the thong straps, and if HOT they immediately weld themselves in place by melting the thong strap and/or foot flesh...
which results in colourful language
Could you make a draw bar with an integral slide hammer?
12 points for today's hack saw segment.
Genuine question: at 15:05 why cut a thread relief if you're going to cut the threads with a die? Isn't that groove specifically for giving yourself a space to disengage the power feed during single point thread cutting?
Nut doesn't cut full sized threads until about half way in, because of the lead on the inside cutting edge. So its room for the Die Nut to come past the lead of its cutting profile and cut full sized threads to the end
What threading die?.....he screw cut the thread and then tried the threaded end of the morse tapered collet holder onto the cut thread for a check on the fit.....there was no threading die used.
@@jamestaylor7694 There was no threading die used at all...the thread was screw cut to final size. The undercut is for a clearance gutter when stopping the cut with the thread insert.
Excellent build. Will the hex head mushroom out to the point where it will eventually no longer fit into the socket after many hammer blows? The chamfering helps, but I think your previous Allen broach design mitigates it entirely. You might want to broach one just in case, plus it lets you use either hammer.
Hopefully, if he always uses the brass-tipped hammer, the hex head will never receive damage.
its just one of those days
"I get one full thread holding the tool in, which isn't ideal, so I'll take it easy"
Immediately takes half inch cuts
Madman
What is the socket head cap screw in the back of your lathe tool for?
You need to separate the tightening process from the ejection process. This can be done
I just got a small mil very similar to yours. Do you have a recommendation for a dro? I'm planning on doing some of the same improvements you have done on yours.
Why didn't you just weld the socket to the hammer?
Oooh, a sock-hammer 🙂
I would have cut some knurling on that to get better grip with fingers. Other than that a good little project.
That drawbar looks exactly like
Unhardened Chinesium 😏
Great upgrade from the original. Hopefully, this will last you for years.
funny thing...i just broke my Chinese mill draw bar.
Why do I feel triggered by the use of the hacksaw to remove the metal socket from the plastic packaging?
Ok who did you used the mill while your drawbar was damaged
lets go new vid
material choice is fine. Its sacrificial part. I'd have used the 1045 just cause it had a closer starting OD. Less turning.
Pretty much any steel would work, I'd just stay away from work hardening steels or steels that gum up threads when they strip (17-4 stainless does both, for example). Other than that, whatever is in the scrap bin works.
Happy New Year! & There's a nice long comment for the engagement algorithm!
_"I'd have used the 1045 just cause it had a closer starting OD"_
That is very often the decider for me 😂Turning stacks of material down on my old lathe not only takes a ridiculous amount of time, it's also pretty wasteful. Guaranteed if I did this I'd be needing the larger diameter bar for another project just afterwards.
I know nothing, but a) isn't there a less damaging way to remove mill tool holders (like driving a wedge just above the tool holder) and b) how are you single-point threading without a compound slide?
Striking the top of the drawbar is how they are intended to be used. That drawbar just wasn't hard enough, and though I understand the reasoning for not wanting to damage the collet holder, they are normal significantly harder than this.
No need for a compound slide when single point threading.
Just plunge cut, most of the load is on the tip and left side of the tool.
@@simonilett998 When you use the cross side both sides of the tool are cutting which does increase loading and typically produces a rougher finish. Ideally you use the top slide to feed in a just a little less (half a degree or so) than the thread angle so the leading edge of the tool is doing the bulk of the cutting.
100$ expensive here its like 30 to 60ish but i don’t use R9 but SK30 the spindel for your maschine you might be able to get from Sieg.
100 AUD, not USD, that’s about 50 USD or GBP, so not super expensive.
2:27 You turned regular threads into ACME threads
if you really needed to, you could have turned down the spacer shoulder thing at the top of the drawbar and then cut off enough stripped threads to allow the drawbar to fully seat again.
Except it had already failed once; better to replace with a known good steel instead of having that one inevitably fail again.
@@Darkassassin09 it failed from 4 years of hammering many hundreds of times on those threads, if it engaged new threads then it should be just fine for another few years. regardless it would have been basically required if he couldnt have gotten that 1 single thread of engagement into the collet when cutting the hex on the new one.
just 12 days in and tragedy already nooooooooo
Making the new drawbar while using the broken one, that's working barely, that was a close call.
Please make a spare one (or get a simple threaded rod and 2 nuts, in case of emergency) now.
The speed is too high. Go down to 250 rpm and set the feedrate properly.
Hitting something with a hammer all the time can't be good for it
Happy New Year!
When you were talking about which steel to use my mind instantly went to the 1020 for the same reasons you gave, where I think a more naiive machinist would have gone for the "better" steel. Great minds think alike I guess.
my father was a machinist and i have many cutters and tool i would like to send to you is there a p.o. box to send things to you/
I like to hit the side of the tool instead of the top of the drawbar for this reason, a soft / semi soft mallet usually and i dont even need to hit that hard for the tool to drop out
Here
So much work wasted. A missed opportunity to create a drawbar with a thickened section that ejects Morse tapers as you continue unscrewing.
Actualy, on this type of mill you dont need a hammer to get the drawbar out. i did it the same way as you until a friend showed me how its done corect
Says there is a better way, refuses to elaborate, lmfao.
Of course, because you don't need a hammer to get the drawbar out of any milling machine.
Rather, you hammer the end of the drawbar to get the tool holder out of the spindle🤣🤣🤣