I have a minor connection to this film. I was a member of a B5 forum back in the early 2000s. In that forum, I created an image that I used for my avatar. The image was a cartoonish green aardvark wearing red boxing gloves and a grey jetpack. At some point a member of the FX team that worked on The Lost Tales who was a member of this forum asked the other members if they had any artwork they could suggest that could be used as "wing art" on top of Starfuries. A bunch of us submitted artwork, and a year or so later, I got a message from that FX artist who let me know that my art had been used in the film. It can be seen in close-up when a Starfury is on-screen during the battle in Sheridan's dream sequence. Years after that, got a message from someone on a completely unrelated forum (a board gaming forum) who, it turns out, found my artwork and liked it, so he got a TATOO of it on his arm. Now THAT was surreal.
And yes, Vintari is emperor Carthagia's son. (He even says in this episode that Vir killed his father, which is true since Vir did kill Carthagia) This actually is why Vir becomes the emperor after Londo because Vintari was demoted in the line of succession because his father was so hated for nearly causing the destruction of their homeworld, so they promoted both Londo and Vir ahead of him in line to become emperor. Also why he fears assassination even more than the other guys in line to be emperors. Vintari does still become the emperor after Vir and becomes a good statesman after being tutored by Sheridan.
Father Cassidy (Alan Scarfe) has a one-off role in Stargate: Atlantis, but his best known role is as Dr. Bradley Talmadge in the time travel series "Seven Days", where he was a major character and appeared in 66 out of 66 episodes.
The Lost Tales is great, such a shame we didn't get more lost tales. It very much felt like awesome Babylon5 written by JMS with 10 years additional experiences.
Their high-5 (the arms apparently going on without making physical contact) reminded me of Londo (his hologram) walking and swinging right through Refa and G'kar in S3:20.
The Technomage Trilogy gives a lot of insight into Galen, plus, what we know was going to happen in Crusade clearly affects Galen and his reaction to Sheridan. He was going to be mad at so many things -- from all the betrayals, and the way so many engaged the Shadows, which he himself personally has issues with; I think he wondered how much Sheridan knew, and this is in a way, his testing of Sheridan as he is trying to find those he can trust.
I really hate that someone spoiled the Technomage connection to the Shadows, because it is a MAJOR spoiler of the Trilogy. That said, the implications are vast on so many levels and at least the spoilage is only superficial, as the implications are thoroughly explored in detail there.
31:40 If you watch the making-of (or was it the editors comment? Not sure), Tracy actually stated that she needed the moment in order not to cry, missing her actual friend and co-worker.
Glad you guys are so high on this, it’s part of my rewatches. I presume you will dive into the extras - sock puppets! As I recall this was filmed not in SoCal but Vancouver and was JMS’ directorial debut. This was done on a shoestring budget, and JMS was approached to do another on the cheap but refused unless he got a bigger budget to do it justice.
My personal theory about the sit down Starfuries was that this is an upgrade based on the artificial gravity tech that Earth got from Minbar with the Excalibur construction deal. I think that's also why you see old Hyperion class cruisers at B5's decommissioning YEARS after they were obsolete. Artificial gravity gave old Earth ships like that a new lease on life.
There was supposed to be a third section of the Lost Tales, featuring Garibaldi. If WB and JMS had wanted it, this would have been the first in a series of lost tales., but it never materialized. I can say to both of you, you are good guessers, let's see how close (or not ) you are for The Road Home. There are 65 ways your prediction could go wrong, and as many of iy going the right way. Be seeing you!
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One thing I have and still love, is having actors from one show I love popping up in another show. For example Doc Fraser shows up in a show called Jeremiah (made by JMS too) another show I saw years ago about a troubled teen mountain camp had both Jewel Staite (Kaywinnet Lee Frye aka Kaylee of Firefly/Serenity) and older Anakin Skywalker himself. Oh and I love the look on Galen's face after Sheridan says "Up yours" to the cab driver, it just screamed "I am a technomage, wise, powerful, mysterious.... I cannot crack up laughing at that! No matter how amusing it is" I wish we got more Crusade just so we got more Galen.
I know Jeff has read the Legions of Fire Centauri trilogy, but I would really love for them to read the Psi Corp and Technomage trilogies and discuss it. I feel that would be a great conversation.
This came out of the blue and we certainly hoped for more but, you're right, this was, on reflection, 2 great stories. Galen pushing Sheridan's buttons. A great Lochely episode. The beefed up cgi (green screen aside) and, oh, those tributes dropped in. B5 was back baby!
There is a script for a third entry of "The Lost Tales" which featured Garibaldi on Mars. I've read it, you should read it also, I believe it's not a final draft, as when he was working on it the pulled the money back and he had to cut a story.
To clarify why Lochley's rank is now colonel; the Earthforce in B5 does not have separate Army and Navy and does not use different ranks for army and navy officers like we do in our time. Instead they have one unified system of military ranks that has more ranks and uses a mixture of both old army and navy ranks. This is why sometimes characters get promoted from what we tend to think of as navy officer ranks to army officer ranks
So the officer ranks in B5 go like this: Ensign Lieutenant junior grade Lieutenant Major Lieutenant Commander Commander Captain Lieutenant Colonel Colonel Lieutenant General Vice Admiral General Admiral
@@Eternalnight198 ... Corrections: There is no Earth Force Lieutenant Colonel rank, nor are their Vice Admirals. ALL flag officers in Earthforce hold the *rank(s)* of General, and 'Admiral' is a Title of Appointment (I.e. a General in command a Fleet (a formal formation, not a informal flotilla), or *The* General in Command of Earth Force's Fleet Arm: "The Admiral of the Fleet" who would be one of the Generals of the 'Joint Chiefs.' It is likely that General Hague was the Admiral of the Earth Force Fleet ).
You had the same reaction to seeing Dr Janet Fraiser as I did. One of the things I loved was the mention of Franklin and G'kar being "beyond the rim" as the actors, Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs had unfortunately passed before the making. I found it very touching.
When they went to do these specials, they actually found they computer models had been lost. So they turned to the fans. The B5 and Starfury models you see here that you like so much are fan made.
On the matter of ranks - that depends on what system you base the ranks on. For example, in the Canadian Armed Forces, after the different services were all integrated, you go Captain, Major, Lieutenant-Colonel, Colonel. So Captain is the highest Junior Officer and Colonel is the highest Senior Officer. In the US, since the services are not integrated, the list of ranks are different for each service. The question is, what ranking was JMS using.
@@dbmandrake that makes sense since he wanted the show to be more international rather than specifically an American show, best way with the military is to blend elements rather than portray it with things specific to the US.
Consider this..... In Earth force a Major may just effectively be the Senior most grade of Lieutenant. As in you will automatically earn that rank if you spend x amount of years in-grade with good conduct, but with out an appointment that requires a Commander's billet. (Similar to what the rank of Lieutenant Commander started out as, historically... A lieutenant holding a position that is normally filled by a Commander. They were called Lieutenant and Commander. Eventually the position was formalized as the Rank, and they dropped the 'and.' The US Navy was the first to do this, the Royal Navy followed suit later).... Any way after you consider that...consider that the Earth Force rank of Colonel maybe the same thing, but with Captains. After a Captain spends a certain amount of time in-grade and with good conduct, but who is not tapped for a Flag (i.e. promoted to General), they are automatically promoted to 'Colonel.' (Not to dissimilar to the historical Royal Navy 'Post Captain'). Just some food for thought.
Yes, and (in a modified naming format) he was the a demon compelled to serve Solomon in mystical/midrashic stories; think of Caliban serving Prospero in the Tempest.
I don't know, but I wonder - could this be two story ideas that JMS had during the show, but he looked at it and thought it would be too diluted if they were done as 2 regular episodes and so he didn't do them as a part of the series, but he revived the ideas for this movie and put the two stories together, stripped down and concentrated.
Sadly, the plan was to do a series of made for video releases, more volumes of Lost Tales, but WB stopped it (I think WB was the one who made that final decision). This one was originally going to be three stories, but had to reduce it to two and lengthen the episodes a bit.
@@Snatcher42 JMS has talked about how there was someone at WB behind the scenes causing them problems and it is why it took so long to do The Way Home. So, it is possible that both are correct -- the person was likely the person deciding they should not get the budget they needed.
JMS sometimes says different things over time, so take this with a pinch of salt but his explanation at the time for why Lost Tales stopped with two episodes was: 1. He agreed to produce episodes 1 & 2 with a low budget as a demonstration piece that there was still a market for B5 and that it could turn a profit. 2. The expectation was that he would get a bigger budget and could move away from sole reliance on green screen and minimal cast in later episodes. JMS mobilised the fan base with a promise that if they made Lot Tales 1 & 2 a success, they would get more B5 (with specific reference to Garibaldi's Lost Tales 3). 3. WB saw good sales and agreed to fund further episodes but only at the same budget as Lost Tales 1 & 2. 4. JMS pulled the plug on further episodes because he didn't think the low budget would produce good material. As his only reason for Lost Tales 1 & 2 was to get a bigger budget for the next project, a proposal of a static budget was a loss.
It's a pity JMS couldn't convince WB to up the budget for the other Lost Tales he had planned (based on the intro, he I'm assuming each DVD would've had 2 character stories each).
The security guard at the end of Lockley's tale was also in Stargate. As for Gaylen being different, I have 2 possible explanations.That are very valid. First, it's been 4 or 5 years since Crusade in the universe, so people can and do change with the passages of time. And second, l think Gaylen was putting on an act so Sheridan would think so he would make the right choice inspiring the Prince Regent, so that the future would be better, instead of that nightmare that was shown. JMS took some lines from a few B5 episodes, and didn't we use them wholesale but made references to them in the lost tales. 2 of note is and lockley's tale. The first was what Father Cassidy said about faith and reason was similar to what happened in the season 4 episode 22 with Brother Aldrin said in the future The second is. What Lockley said to Asthmatics. about the Sun going Supernova, and you could equivalent that to what happened in the season one episode where Sinclair was talking to his reporter, or in the season 4 episode 22 where we had a look into the future. I love y'all reaction to this movie. I've been looking forward to it for a very long time.
I'll have to tell you, when I first watched this movie on DVD, I was disappointed. I was expecting more of the series, with great space battles and a full array of alien actors. We didn't get that. However, your reaction to this, made me realize that what this movie lacked in action, it gained in pure, excellent acting and exposition. You can tell that they spent most of the budget on the excellent acting and exposition of the primary characters. There were a lot of scenes where there was just black background, requiring little in the way of sets and extras in alien makeup. The dialog between the primary characters was exceptional. A credit to the writing and also the ability of the characters to deliver pages and pages of exposition and do it with such passion and professionalism. My first impression that this movie was simply afterthought and an attempt to keep fans embracing the franchise, was completely wrong. FYI, the actor who portrayed the priest, was also in the science fiction series, Andromeda, which was a Gene Roddenberry creation. An excellent series in its own right. Thanks, guys, for opening my eyes to the value of this movie.
Pretty surprised this was ranked #1. I remember on first watch I was pretty meh about the first tale (the pacing was too slow) and I liked the second one. I geeked out the most about the upgrade in CGI for the station, nebulas in the background, ships, etc. On second watch later, I had a more positive view of the first story. I wish they had the budget to make the third story with Garibaldi on Mars.
I kind of wish there had been more of these. The writing was top notch and it was great to see old friends again. My understanding is that JMS was reluctant to do any more unless Warner's upped the budget. There were so few original actors in this because they had so little money to work with. Shame. Another regretful "what if" in the post B5 history of the show.
Jeff, Captain in any service but Navy is a lesser rank equal to a Lieutenant in the Navy. Also if you read many navy based Scifi, some includes the "courtesy" promotion to the next non navy rank (major) that is traditional to avoid multiple Captains on a ship. Also to avoid this with Carriers, alternate Captains such as the CAG. XO or other positions like a chaplain or doctor tend to be addressed by job title rather than rank. If you remember the earlier Captain shoulders in B5 use 2 Bars like in the Army, Air or Space Force. B5 never showed an Admiral but did show majors and generals (clearly not naval) I even dabble with writing my own scifi story and did chose a Naval structure but added non naval ranks in the lower levels, expanding the levels. Basic idea there is spacers require more training than any ground or security force at an entry level. Every spacer would need to qualify at a basic pilot level just to handle using a life pod as in space that would be equal at a min. any early NASA rocket capsule. In my vision you might still serve planet side for security/cop/ground fight and higher ranks would still apply in a supervisory or command role. The single Bar in B5 does not match commander outside B5 and the Lt. bars never showed in B5 at all.
in Babylon 5 Lieutenants don't have bars at all.... Lieutenants all wear that same not-a square polygon worn by even generals above them (that polygon IS the representation of 'two bars of a Lt'). The way you tell a Sr LT from a Jr LT is by thier uniform. Sr Lt's have that leather panel that runs down the front of their jacket, Jr. LTs do not. This was seen in the development of Lt. Corwin. His uniform changed immediately after he was promoted from Jr. to Sr Lieutenant. What can be more confusing is the fact that warrant officers and commissioned officers use the same rank insignia... So how do you tell a Lieutenant from a Chief? By looking at their Stat Bar. Commissioned officers all have stat bars that equal the width of their breast pocket, Non-coms' stat bars are half that width. (As you evidenced by Garabldi's uniform) Also...it is a mistake to base your understanding of Earth Force rank and organization soley off of modern American structures.
I think we should remember that Jeff was in the US Navy. Dolphins, in fact. Boomers, I think. So we should not be surprised that he has preconceived notions of how ranks could/should work.
@@waltermc3906 I did not base it on just American structure but also those used by most Earth militaries as most follow the same patterns (with some small changes like Grand Marshalls, Commodores, Jr. or Post Captains.) and the Leather Panels were added after the pilot and are not consistent throughout. While parts of the Earth force uniforms were well thought out by JMS I think the costume designers didn't understand ranks very well or wanted to go cheep with the chopped bits of brass sheet. Also the bird version use on Lockley was not what they used in the series for the same rank confusing that detail farther. Personally I think the Navy needs to bring back the Commodore between Captain and Rear Admiral (1 vs 2 star instead of the Junior Rear Admiral) Traditionally held a base or smaller task group command as a Transition from a ship to fleet command. I also feel the Air/Space force insignia with never ending stripes for enlisted and warrant ranks with limited specialist notations is not great when you need to stop and actually take time to count stripes. It needs to be done at a quick glance and not searching several places to figure out. I don't like the British system of including what shoulder the shoulder bars are worn on either for grading. Left for Commander, Right Jr. Captain, Both Sr, Captain, also because it should be seen from either side without needing to walk around to see.
One aspect of JMS'S relationship with religion and his personal agnostisism has to include his relationship with his father. With a father like his on Earth, how could a child/man ever totally trust a good, loving, and trustworthy Heavenly Father.
This was a 'proof of concept' movie. Trying new technologies with a few cast members. The lack of budget, practical sets wise, is clear. No Graded floors, no CNC. Networks passed or if it continued wanted the budget lowered. Plus of Claudia and Tracy, Times been WAY kinder, as of 2007, to Tracy. And maybe in 2007;there was still animosity between Christian and JMS. I'm not sure if you heard the 'stories' of what went down to cause Christian to leave the show after season 4. Iif they did get together back in the day I'm sure it would have been long over by 2007. Who is left in the cast. Babylon 5: The Lennier Adventures-Tales of the shamed?!?! Mumy is like 70 and looked good for his age until 2010 but time has caught up with him. They did that animated movie a year ago. I just don't need NEW Babylon 5 in my life but hey, that's me.
Asmodeus is from Jewish tradition [the Greek pronunciation, properly the name is Ashmedai], specifically from the book of Tobit. He is the king of demons, the demon of lust.
Lost Tales was so disappointing. I was excited to get new Babylon 5 and it sounded like they were going to keep making more, then we get one movie and that was it.
I ranked that one dead last when it came out. Hated it. Rewatched it last week in anticipation of you guys and I liked it a lot more the second time around. Still hate the overuse of green screen and the empty station shots like it's already a ghost town save that one Minbari dude who looks totally lost. But that's budget so, reality can be forgiven. The new CG models were excellent though. Shame they would never be used again.
Season 1 is a totally different show from the 2nd to 5th season the first time around. Season 1 the 2nd time around is a totally different show from Season 1 the first time around.
Another reason all the fans fought to get more B5 made for 30 years. TV executives are idiots for not taking this property and JMS writing….and failing to capitalize. Instead we got so much crap…
Having only seen the J&B comments on this, not the actual original thing, I think the religiously-themed one would've irritated me. I got tired of JMS's recurrent heavy-handed preaching of "Religion is good, religion is good, all hail religion, it's all just so deep & serious & meaningful & respectable, religion is good, all hail religion". Even without openly attacking the non-religious, it's treating the non-religious as something less/worse just by the juxtaposing silence. For example, look at the question & non-answer about being "a person of faith", and J&B praising it for its depiction of the struggle. If the answer had been "No" (which I note it never is allowed to be in this series), there can't seriously be any doubt that that character would've been a villain.
Amazing how much you guys enjoyed this. I was so disappointed with this anthology. It was tedious and of no consequence and really added nothing. I haven't bothered rewatching it in years. No explanation as to how Galen can possibly know what the Centauri guy is going to do decades from now. Meh,
Jeff went from a Franklin and Galen hater to lover and that's the biggest arc of Babylon 5.
It's a funny little touch that Babylon 5 finally settled down once Lochley got to run it her way 😂
can't wait for "The Road Home" reaction, you're gonna love it
I’m as die hard a fan as anyone and I didn’t love the road home. In fact I fell asleep halfway through it
I have a minor connection to this film. I was a member of a B5 forum back in the early 2000s. In that forum, I created an image that I used for my avatar. The image was a cartoonish green aardvark wearing red boxing gloves and a grey jetpack. At some point a member of the FX team that worked on The Lost Tales who was a member of this forum asked the other members if they had any artwork they could suggest that could be used as "wing art" on top of Starfuries. A bunch of us submitted artwork, and a year or so later, I got a message from that FX artist who let me know that my art had been used in the film. It can be seen in close-up when a Starfury is on-screen during the battle in Sheridan's dream sequence. Years after that, got a message from someone on a completely unrelated forum (a board gaming forum) who, it turns out, found my artwork and liked it, so he got a TATOO of it on his arm. Now THAT was surreal.
And yes, Vintari is emperor Carthagia's son.
(He even says in this episode that Vir killed his father, which is true since Vir did kill Carthagia)
This actually is why Vir becomes the emperor after Londo because Vintari was demoted in the line of succession because his father was so hated for nearly causing the destruction of their homeworld, so they promoted both Londo and Vir ahead of him in line to become emperor.
Also why he fears assassination even more than the other guys in line to be emperors.
Vintari does still become the emperor after Vir and becomes a good statesman after being tutored by Sheridan.
Totally agree with you guys. The Lost Tales is amazing.
Father Cassidy (Alan Scarfe) has a one-off role in Stargate: Atlantis, but his best known role is as Dr. Bradley Talmadge in the time travel series "Seven Days", where he was a major character and appeared in 66 out of 66 episodes.
He also had a memorable role on SeaQuest DSV as a maniacal villain, and two appearances on TNG, and one on Voyager.
The Lost Tales is great, such a shame we didn't get more lost tales.
It very much felt like awesome Babylon5 written by JMS with 10 years additional experiences.
I wish they had shot the third lost tale with Garibaldi. Oh, well.
Their high-5 (the arms apparently going on without making physical contact) reminded me of Londo (his hologram) walking and swinging right through Refa and G'kar in S3:20.
The Technomage Trilogy gives a lot of insight into Galen, plus, what we know was going to happen in Crusade clearly affects Galen and his reaction to Sheridan. He was going to be mad at so many things -- from all the betrayals, and the way so many engaged the Shadows, which he himself personally has issues with; I think he wondered how much Sheridan knew, and this is in a way, his testing of Sheridan as he is trying to find those he can trust.
I really hate that someone spoiled the Technomage connection to the Shadows, because it is a MAJOR spoiler of the Trilogy. That said, the implications are vast on so many levels and at least the spoilage is only superficial, as the implications are thoroughly explored in detail there.
31:40 If you watch the making-of (or was it the editors comment? Not sure), Tracy actually stated that she needed the moment in order not to cry, missing her actual friend and co-worker.
"mysteries once solved, are never quite as interesting"
- motto for B5 for the second time
Glad you guys are so high on this, it’s part of my rewatches. I presume you will dive into the extras - sock puppets!
As I recall this was filmed not in SoCal but Vancouver and was JMS’ directorial debut. This was done on a shoestring budget, and JMS was approached to do another on the cheap but refused unless he got a bigger budget to do it justice.
JMS directed this and “Sleeping in Light.”
My personal theory about the sit down Starfuries was that this is an upgrade based on the artificial gravity tech that Earth got from Minbar with the Excalibur construction deal. I think that's also why you see old Hyperion class cruisers at B5's decommissioning YEARS after they were obsolete. Artificial gravity gave old Earth ships like that a new lease on life.
There was supposed to be a third section of the Lost Tales, featuring Garibaldi. If WB and JMS had wanted it, this would have been the first in a series of lost tales., but it never materialized.
I can say to both of you, you are good guessers, let's see how close (or not ) you are for The Road Home.
There are 65 ways your prediction could go wrong, and as many of iy going the right way.
Be seeing you!
One thing I have and still love, is having actors from one show I love popping up in another show.
For example Doc Fraser shows up in a show called Jeremiah (made by JMS too) another show I saw years ago about a troubled teen mountain camp had both Jewel Staite (Kaywinnet Lee Frye aka Kaylee of Firefly/Serenity) and older Anakin Skywalker himself.
Oh and I love the look on Galen's face after Sheridan says "Up yours" to the cab driver, it just screamed "I am a technomage, wise, powerful, mysterious.... I cannot crack up laughing at that! No matter how amusing it is"
I wish we got more Crusade just so we got more Galen.
I know Jeff has read the Legions of Fire Centauri trilogy, but I would really love for them to read the Psi Corp and Technomage trilogies and discuss it. I feel that would be a great conversation.
The PsiCorps trilogy book 3 is great because we get the endings to some stories we were waiting for.
This came out of the blue and we certainly hoped for more but, you're right, this was, on reflection, 2 great stories. Galen pushing Sheridan's buttons. A great Lochely episode. The beefed up cgi (green screen aside) and, oh, those tributes dropped in. B5 was back baby!
Gee, you guys are good guessers. 😇🤫
There is a script for a third entry of "The Lost Tales" which featured Garibaldi on Mars. I've read it, you should read it also, I believe it's not a final draft, as when he was working on it the pulled the money back and he had to cut a story.
I’m re-reading it now.
To clarify why Lochley's rank is now colonel; the Earthforce in B5 does not have separate Army and Navy and does not use different ranks for army and navy officers like we do in our time. Instead they have one unified system of military ranks that has more ranks and uses a mixture of both old army and navy ranks. This is why sometimes characters get promoted from what we tend to think of as navy officer ranks to army officer ranks
So the officer ranks in B5 go like this:
Ensign
Lieutenant junior grade
Lieutenant
Major
Lieutenant Commander
Commander
Captain
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel
Lieutenant General
Vice Admiral
General
Admiral
@@Eternalnight198 ... Corrections: There is no Earth Force Lieutenant Colonel rank, nor are their Vice Admirals. ALL flag officers in Earthforce hold the *rank(s)* of General, and 'Admiral' is a Title of Appointment (I.e. a General in command a Fleet (a formal formation, not a informal flotilla), or *The* General in Command of Earth Force's Fleet Arm: "The Admiral of the Fleet" who would be one of the Generals of the 'Joint Chiefs.' It is likely that General Hague was the Admiral of the Earth Force Fleet ).
You had the same reaction to seeing Dr Janet Fraiser as I did. One of the things I loved was the mention of Franklin and G'kar being "beyond the rim" as the actors, Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs had unfortunately passed before the making. I found it very touching.
When they went to do these specials, they actually found they computer models had been lost.
So they turned to the fans. The B5 and Starfury models you see here that you like so much are fan made.
Yes, even though Crusade can't be continued, Galen is a character he could still use.
Galen was testing Sheridan, and the test is to see if he would become a new Clarke
I'm glad you guys liked this. Are you planning on watching "The Road Home" as well?
Yup. That’s up next
The green screen reminds me of the old Wing Commander games with Mark Hamill
I am glad you liked this B5 movie . 😇
I am so curious what you will think about next week - honestly I can see it going either way...
On the matter of ranks - that depends on what system you base the ranks on. For example, in the Canadian Armed Forces, after the different services were all integrated, you go Captain, Major, Lieutenant-Colonel, Colonel. So Captain is the highest Junior Officer and Colonel is the highest Senior Officer. In the US, since the services are not integrated, the list of ranks are different for each service. The question is, what ranking was JMS using.
JMS has stated before that B5 doesn’t specifically follow any of the present day US armed forces ranking system, it’s a mixture.
@@dbmandrake that makes sense since he wanted the show to be more international rather than specifically an American show, best way with the military is to blend elements rather than portray it with things specific to the US.
He (JMS) did direct both of the episodes, along with a writer/producer/director named Sara Barnes.
Consider this..... In Earth force a Major may just effectively be the Senior most grade of Lieutenant. As in you will automatically earn that rank if you spend x amount of years in-grade with good conduct, but with out an appointment that requires a Commander's billet. (Similar to what the rank of Lieutenant Commander started out as, historically... A lieutenant holding a position that is normally filled by a Commander. They were called Lieutenant and Commander. Eventually the position was formalized as the Rank, and they dropped the 'and.' The US Navy was the first to do this, the Royal Navy followed suit later)....
Any way after you consider that...consider that the Earth Force rank of Colonel maybe the same thing, but with Captains. After a Captain spends a certain amount of time in-grade and with good conduct, but who is not tapped for a Flag (i.e. promoted to General), they are automatically promoted to 'Colonel.' (Not to dissimilar to the historical Royal Navy 'Post Captain').
Just some food for thought.
Asmodeus is from the Book of Tobit.
Yes, and (in a modified naming format) he was the a demon compelled to serve Solomon in mystical/midrashic stories; think of Caliban serving Prospero in the Tempest.
I don't know, but I wonder - could this be two story ideas that JMS had during the show, but he looked at it and thought it would be too diluted if they were done as 2 regular episodes and so he didn't do them as a part of the series, but he revived the ideas for this movie and put the two stories together, stripped down and concentrated.
55:27 Faith Manages.
Sadly, the plan was to do a series of made for video releases, more volumes of Lost Tales, but WB stopped it (I think WB was the one who made that final decision). This one was originally going to be three stories, but had to reduce it to two and lengthen the episodes a bit.
JMS was the one who decided to stop this project, since WB wasn't giving him the budget to do it properly.
@@Snatcher42 JMS has talked about how there was someone at WB behind the scenes causing them problems and it is why it took so long to do The Way Home. So, it is possible that both are correct -- the person was likely the person deciding they should not get the budget they needed.
JMS sometimes says different things over time, so take this with a pinch of salt but his explanation at the time for why Lost Tales stopped with two episodes was:
1. He agreed to produce episodes 1 & 2 with a low budget as a demonstration piece that there was still a market for B5 and that it could turn a profit.
2. The expectation was that he would get a bigger budget and could move away from sole reliance on green screen and minimal cast in later episodes. JMS mobilised the fan base with a promise that if they made Lot Tales 1 & 2 a success, they would get more B5 (with specific reference to Garibaldi's Lost Tales 3).
3. WB saw good sales and agreed to fund further episodes but only at the same budget as Lost Tales 1 & 2.
4. JMS pulled the plug on further episodes because he didn't think the low budget would produce good material. As his only reason for Lost Tales 1 & 2 was to get a bigger budget for the next project, a proposal of a static budget was a loss.
It's a pity JMS couldn't convince WB to up the budget for the other Lost Tales he had planned (based on the intro, he I'm assuming each DVD would've had 2 character stories each).
By now you know that THR is your most brilliant prediction.
The security guard at the end of Lockley's tale was also in Stargate.
As for Gaylen being different, I have 2 possible explanations.That are very valid.
First, it's been 4 or 5 years since Crusade in the universe, so people can and do change with the passages of time.
And second, l think Gaylen was putting on an act so Sheridan would think so he would make the right choice inspiring the Prince Regent, so that the future would be better, instead of that nightmare that was shown.
JMS took some lines from a few B5 episodes, and didn't we use them wholesale but made references to them in the lost tales.
2 of note is and lockley's tale.
The first was what Father Cassidy said about faith and reason was similar to what happened in the season 4 episode 22 with Brother Aldrin said in the future
The second is.
What Lockley said to Asthmatics. about the Sun going Supernova, and you could equivalent that to what happened in the season one episode where Sinclair was talking to his reporter, or in the season 4 episode 22 where we had a look into the future.
I love y'all reaction to this movie. I've been looking forward to it for a very long time.
Brother's Karamazov is a major influence for the first story.... if you think about it.
I'll have to tell you, when I first watched this movie on DVD, I was disappointed. I was expecting more of the series, with great space battles and a full array of alien actors. We didn't get that. However, your reaction to this, made me realize that what this movie lacked in action, it gained in pure, excellent acting and exposition. You can tell that they spent most of the budget on the excellent acting and exposition of the primary characters. There were a lot of scenes where there was just black background, requiring little in the way of sets and extras in alien makeup. The dialog between the primary characters was exceptional. A credit to the writing and also the ability of the characters to deliver pages and pages of exposition and do it with such passion and professionalism. My first impression that this movie was simply afterthought and an attempt to keep fans embracing the franchise, was completely wrong. FYI, the actor who portrayed the priest, was also in the science fiction series, Andromeda, which was a Gene Roddenberry creation. An excellent series in its own right. Thanks, guys, for opening my eyes to the value of this movie.
Pretty surprised this was ranked #1. I remember on first watch I was pretty meh about the first tale (the pacing was too slow) and I liked the second one. I geeked out the most about the upgrade in CGI for the station, nebulas in the background, ships, etc. On second watch later, I had a more positive view of the first story. I wish they had the budget to make the third story with Garibaldi on Mars.
I kind of wish there had been more of these. The writing was top notch and it was great to see old friends again. My understanding is that JMS was reluctant to do any more unless Warner's upped the budget. There were so few original actors in this because they had so little money to work with. Shame. Another regretful "what if" in the post B5 history of the show.
Jeff, Captain in any service but Navy is a lesser rank equal to a Lieutenant in the Navy. Also if you read many navy based Scifi, some includes the "courtesy" promotion to the next non navy rank (major) that is traditional to avoid multiple Captains on a ship. Also to avoid this with Carriers, alternate Captains such as the CAG. XO or other positions like a chaplain or doctor tend to be addressed by job title rather than rank. If you remember the earlier Captain shoulders in B5 use 2 Bars like in the Army, Air or Space Force. B5 never showed an Admiral but did show majors and generals (clearly not naval) I even dabble with writing my own scifi story and did chose a Naval structure but added non naval ranks in the lower levels, expanding the levels. Basic idea there is spacers require more training than any ground or security force at an entry level. Every spacer would need to qualify at a basic pilot level just to handle using a life pod as in space that would be equal at a min. any early NASA rocket capsule. In my vision you might still serve planet side for security/cop/ground fight and higher ranks would still apply in a supervisory or command role. The single Bar in B5 does not match commander outside B5 and the Lt. bars never showed in B5 at all.
in Babylon 5 Lieutenants don't have bars at all.... Lieutenants all wear that same not-a square polygon worn by even generals above them (that polygon IS the representation of 'two bars of a Lt'). The way you tell a Sr LT from a Jr LT is by thier uniform. Sr Lt's have that leather panel that runs down the front of their jacket, Jr. LTs do not. This was seen in the development of Lt. Corwin. His uniform changed immediately after he was promoted from Jr. to Sr Lieutenant. What can be more confusing is the fact that warrant officers and commissioned officers use the same rank insignia... So how do you tell a Lieutenant from a Chief? By looking at their Stat Bar. Commissioned officers all have stat bars that equal the width of their breast pocket, Non-coms' stat bars are half that width. (As you evidenced by Garabldi's uniform)
Also...it is a mistake to base your understanding of Earth Force rank and organization soley off of modern American structures.
I think we should remember that Jeff was in the US Navy. Dolphins, in fact. Boomers, I think. So we should not be surprised that he has preconceived notions of how ranks could/should work.
@@waltermc3906 I did not base it on just American structure but also those used by most Earth militaries as most follow the same patterns (with some small changes like Grand Marshalls, Commodores, Jr. or Post Captains.) and the Leather Panels were added after the pilot and are not consistent throughout. While parts of the Earth force uniforms were well thought out by JMS I think the costume designers didn't understand ranks very well or wanted to go cheep with the chopped bits of brass sheet. Also the bird version use on Lockley was not what they used in the series for the same rank confusing that detail farther. Personally I think the Navy needs to bring back the Commodore between Captain and Rear Admiral (1 vs 2 star instead of the Junior Rear Admiral) Traditionally held a base or smaller task group command as a Transition from a ship to fleet command. I also feel the Air/Space force insignia with never ending stripes for enlisted and warrant ranks with limited specialist notations is not great when you need to stop and actually take time to count stripes. It needs to be done at a quick glance and not searching several places to figure out. I don't like the British system of including what shoulder the shoulder bars are worn on either for grading. Left for Commander, Right Jr. Captain, Both Sr, Captain, also because it should be seen from either side without needing to walk around to see.
One aspect of JMS'S relationship with religion and his personal agnostisism has to include his relationship with his father.
With a father like his on Earth, how could a child/man ever totally trust a good, loving, and trustworthy Heavenly Father.
This was a 'proof of concept' movie. Trying new technologies with a few cast members.
The lack of budget, practical sets wise, is clear. No Graded floors, no CNC.
Networks passed or if it continued wanted the budget lowered.
Plus of Claudia and Tracy, Times been WAY kinder, as of 2007, to Tracy.
And maybe in 2007;there was still animosity between Christian and JMS.
I'm not sure if you heard the 'stories' of what went down to cause Christian to leave the show after season 4.
Iif they did get together back in the day I'm sure it would have been long over by 2007.
Who is left in the cast. Babylon 5: The Lennier Adventures-Tales of the shamed?!?!
Mumy is like 70 and looked good for his age until 2010 but time has caught up with him.
They did that animated movie a year ago.
I just don't need NEW Babylon 5 in my life but hey, that's me.
Asmodeus is from Jewish tradition [the Greek pronunciation, properly the name is Ashmedai], specifically from the book of Tobit. He is the king of demons, the demon of lust.
Lost Tales was so disappointing. I was excited to get new Babylon 5 and it sounded like they were going to keep making more, then we get one movie and that was it.
I guess the DVD sales weren't good enough
To clarify I'm not disappointed with the content of the movie.
@@praiha no, it seems B5 had someone at WB working against them.
@@hornorsilk2901 well, I figured whoever that was, worked in the broadcasting side, and that's why this direct to DVD thing got made
@@praiha no, they interfered as a whole, which is why it took to the person leaving for new projects (Road Home)
I ranked that one dead last when it came out. Hated it. Rewatched it last week in anticipation of you guys and I liked it a lot more the second time around.
Still hate the overuse of green screen and the empty station shots like it's already a ghost town save that one Minbari dude who looks totally lost. But that's budget so, reality can be forgiven.
The new CG models were excellent though. Shame they would never be used again.
The stories were good in there own right. The limited budget was evldent. But, the best part for me was the updated CGI.
Season 1 is a totally different show from the 2nd to 5th season the first time around.
Season 1 the 2nd time around is a totally different show from Season 1 the first time around.
Another reason all the fans fought to get more B5 made for 30 years. TV executives are idiots for not taking this property and JMS writing….and failing to capitalize. Instead we got so much crap…
Sadly Tim Choate died in a motorbike crash
Having only seen the J&B comments on this, not the actual original thing, I think the religiously-themed one would've irritated me. I got tired of JMS's recurrent heavy-handed preaching of "Religion is good, religion is good, all hail religion, it's all just so deep & serious & meaningful & respectable, religion is good, all hail religion". Even without openly attacking the non-religious, it's treating the non-religious as something less/worse just by the juxtaposing silence. For example, look at the question & non-answer about being "a person of faith", and J&B praising it for its depiction of the struggle. If the answer had been "No" (which I note it never is allowed to be in this series), there can't seriously be any doubt that that character would've been a villain.
Amazing how much you guys enjoyed this. I was so disappointed with this anthology. It was tedious and of no consequence and really added nothing. I haven't bothered rewatching it in years. No explanation as to how Galen can possibly know what the Centauri guy is going to do decades from now. Meh,