I just want to pause right after he said he made spare parts for his bandsaw. I want to give a very heartfelt thank you to Matthias for all the work and effort he goes through to bring us information that we might not otherwise get anywhere else. I have watched probably hundreds of videos from him and other great makers like Jimmy Diresta, Izzy Swan and countless others but to see a fraction of the effort that goes into making one 8 1/2 min. video... that is truly exceptional and an amazing individual. Thank you and I appreciate all you do for watchers around the world.
Yeah, I didn't even notice the blade guides. All I could think was: 1. this guy built his own bandsaw and, 2. Matthias can cut a better circle/cylinder by hand than I can do with my circle-cutting jig.
I noticed those right away, too. And the painful-to-look-at shade of green he painted the saw exterior. I guess no one will mistake his saw for anyone elses. I use ceramic blocks in my upper and lower side guides, and set up my saw using the methodology of Alec Snodgrass, but I DO use brass shim stock to set them for distance away from the blade. Hearing the statement, "they don't work," made me laugh out loud. I used brass shim stock to set thousands of tools in CNC and manual mills and lathes for hundreds of setups. Some of the tolerances I needed to hold were as tight as +.0000"/-.0008" while certain aerospace, defense, and prototyping jobs required even tighter tolerances than that. I was commonly holding total tolerances less than .005" on turning, milling, sinker and wire EDM, and obviously grinding was about 10% of that .005" total. Unless I had an electronic tool setter, like on some Haas machines, a tool setting probe, or my favorite, using an optical tool pre-setter, I always used brass shim stock, of verified thickness. Even when I did have access to those other methods/technologies, I ALWAYS followed up by checking the offset with a piece of brass shim stock. It was just a few seconds per tool spent verifying the accuracy of the TLO, or coordinate offset value, which is ALWAYS less time then to try to clean up, or determine a fix for, cutting a dimension on a workpiece, especially a critical dimension, undersized and out of tolerance, due to having an incorrect offset. Time spent, a few seconds or a minute , per tool, just to verify each tool, is ALWAYS less time than it is trying to explain to your boss, and sometimes his/her boss, why you scrapped a very important work piece, for a very important customer, with extremely limited time before the delivery deadline, and having no excess stock of that material, to make a replacement part before the delivery date. So it does work, just have a skilled and talented machinist, or toolmaker, demonstrate how it's done. Using the Alex Snodgrass set up procedure, and using my brass shimstock to set the distance of my ceramic guide blocks from the saw blade, has allowed me to achieve results which would be acceptable if I were in machining metal in a machine shop. I set up my extended range resaw fence, a recent shop project, and checked/adjusted the set up of the band saw, and in resawing 5 pieces all wider than 10 in, one piece 21 in in length, and the other four 34 in in length, I held all of the resultant thickness measurements within 0.004", so I have to say that I am pretty happy with my Jet 14in band saw, with a 6-inch riser block kit that was also a home shop project, and running a Wood Slicer blade. I must also add how pleased I am with that blade, as it never seemed to struggle or get overly built-up with saw dust despite the 10" and 11" the saw was cutting through, very little blade deflection or wobble, obviously no drift, and possibly the most impressive thing was how quiet the cuts were compared to other blades, in the same material but only cutting through a 5" to 6" wide workpiece. Ok, apologies for the verbosity. Enough blather out of me. Time to get back to my shop and make some chips and dust.
What a tremendous amount of work must have gone into making this excellent video. I recently had a brief conversation with a gentleman who directs British tv documentaries. This man utterly dismissed user-generated content as being typically blurry, ill-shot footage with crap audio and incompetent commentaries, full of inconsistencies and repetitions. I was reminded of the complacency shown by the British motorcycle industry in the face of Japanese competition. It´s RUclipsrs of Mattias´ calibre who prove that the quality of user-generated content can exceed that of the best that professional tv producers can come up with : )
Great video! I have been considering upgrading my guides with the Carter guides and now I know I will see little or no improvement. Thanks for saving me the time, trouble, and money.
Thank you for this very helpful and ingenious video. I recently came into possession of a 10" Craftsman model 113 bandsaw which is completely missing the lower blade guide assembly. My research so far has shown that these lower guides have a very high casualty rate, and so replacements are scarce to non-existent. I'm very inspired to see the possibilities that exist for thinking/building one's way out of the situation. For example, using wood for the guide support bracket already solves a lot of headaches for a guy without a machine shop. Keep up the great work!
Fantastic Mattias. The carter style guides do guide very wide blades well. The bearings are moved just behind the gullet and the back of the blade runs in the thrust bearing slot. They can pack saw dust on sometimes and I hold the edge of a file to the blade to scrape it off from time to time. Really fun to see my old guides serve a purpose--- probably their highest purpose--- educational shoot out. They were always a nuisance to tune.
Loading of the blade with dust can be stopped (or at least helped significantly) by putting the heads from a couple of spent toothbrushes against the blade (via a new jig) a few cm under the rollers. Love your videos, and all the home crafted tools. Keep 'em coming.
Really nice to see this Matthias! I've been debating between a quick release system and a new blade guide system for my saw. (About the same price) I think I'll skip the blade guides now. Thanks!
A compelling reason to use the bearing style guides is that you have a very obvious visual indication that they're set correctly when they begin to rotate as you turn the wheel. Sometimes they're tool-less, although I don't have any difficulty with using allen wrenches on mine. I found that if the bearings aren't touching, it introduces a large amount of drift. If they are, there's almost none.
Wow, you did a lot of work here and covered the guides really well. I bought the carter bearing ones that were cool to look at about 10 years ago for an extra band saw I intended to re-hab. and am just setting it up now. I can procrastinate . I also should have thought about the rollers collecting debris. Thanks for the video.
Very smart analysis. I have gone back to liking square blade guides over bearings. The lower blade guide bearings on the bandsaw will get impacted with dust and resin or pitch from the wood making an adhesive coating on the bearing surfaces that effectively increases the diameter of the bearings making them run in full contact with the blade all the time . This will lead to premature bearing death. I have found the bearing'ed bandsaws eat bearings like candy especially in a shop where a lot of softwood is cut. Square metal or Cool Block guides are self cleaning. (I maintain the machinery in a Makerspace near Boston Ma. or as I like to call it, "The woodworking machinery testing laboratory", where there are lots of users of different skill levels and the users are particularly hard on the machinery.) So I agree with you, keep your old square blade guides.G.
You just made my day. I bought a used 12" Craftsman and was thinking of upgrading the guides. It cuts great right now but I was believing the hype put out by Carter and The Wood Whisperer. I'll save my money towards a jointer instead of paying more for guides than I did the saw 😂
Ah, the psychological factor. Think of it as two different tools built to do the same job. It can be as simple as a hammer or as complicated as machine tool. If one feels crude and the other is a pleasure to use. Either because it fits the hand well and isn't awkward. Or because it is well made, fitted and seems effortless when operating as in the case of a machine tool which would you rather use or own.
Hi Matthias, I thinkyou are absolutely brilliant. Love the bandsaw and the box jig. I would have to say this test was not long enough. I've spent many days behind a bandsaw and bearing guides are pretty much a set it and forget it. I've never
Carter recommends if you're using a quarter inch blade or smaller to only use the top guides and completely move the lowers out-of-the-way. also they say to preload the blade with the thrust bearing about 1/8 of an inch. counterintuitively this actually allows smaller blades to twist and flex which really helps with tight corners believe it or not.
Hi Matthias, I found your testing video after watching something else, I am subscribed to your chancel and I rang the bell to always so I am at a loss as to why I had not seen this video before and to make sure that I had not missed any other videos I embarked on a marathon video watching of all your videos, I found that to be very entertaining and therapeutic as well. That was the only video I had not seem before but now I have set up an appointment in outlook to remind me to check all your videos for the last month so that I don’t miss anymore.
Matthias, Thank you for another great video. I'd love to see a video with tips and tricks for bandsaws. (forgive me if there already is one, I couldn't find it.) You use them masterfully.
Your home made bandsaw is amazing. To see how steady and good it work, is impressing. Have a nice weekend with your family. best wishes from Jan in Norway
Great video. Thanks so much for doing this comparison that most people will never be able to do themselves. Careful using those bolts instead of the set screws. I broke my cheap set because I lost one of the set screws and replaced it with a small bolt just like the one you use. Its harder to tell how much force you are putting on the bolt and it doesnt take much to break that cheap metal that is used. Once they break they are pretty much not fixable.
Thanks Matthias. Nice simple topic, I have a 20" Delta from the 50-60's that I need to update the blade guides on. I won't look for anything spectacular then, but it needs to be robust and foolproof with H.S. students using the saw.
Four bandsaws and at least six sets of guides have rotated through my shop in the last 40 years. Your findings are exactly what I'd have guessed. Those cheapie guides from a Delta/Rockwell 14" bandsaw would be fine if only there was a micrometer adjustment to the guide blocks. The trick to setting the gap with any of the guides is to use either a rolling paper or cellophane off a pack of cigarettes folded around the back of the blade. Bring the easiest guide close until it is just touching. After it is locked down bring the other guide hard up against the paper then lock it down. You'll end up with just a couple thousandths clearance evenly divided between the left side and right.
Nice comparison and good points to consider! Like you said, boils down to user preference. Curious what your Dad liked on his bandsaw? Have things changed much out at the country shop? Any build projects upcoming for the home?
I built your 16" bandsaw to the plans. I used lignum vitae for the blade guides, although I considered teflon. Lignum was cheaper. The blade guides are far better than on our powermatic 1500, delta 14", and (no surprise) grizzly 9". Easier to adjust, hold adjustment better, quiet, looks good. The lignum can go pretty tight against the blade without issue. Another type of blade guide I have seen on metal cutting bandsaws is bearing bronze with a slit cut in it for the blade, usual ball bearing behind the blade. Not adjustable for blade thickness (e.g. .035") but simple and unobstructive.
so right about the mental mind tricks. the sales pitch on anything is always going to be (this is the guides you've been looking for. or make the most accurate cuts you can possibly make with our product. Well in my opinion some of the best carpentry work was done long before I was born and long before any of these full bearing guides where around I do admire the idea of less friction but in actuality I think that the blocks provide a bigger surface to contact the blade making them a better choice.
If you want a much more strenuous guide test try doing Chapman bandsaw puzzles using a 1/8" blade. Even if it's not for a test I'd like to see you make one of these anyway. They're just fun and your kiddo would like it.
Hello bro, I am in Zanzibar islands, I saw yr wonderful experience and ideal for bandsaw blade guide, here it is impossible to get any spare parts as you shown different blade guides, my bandsaw is from my third generation may be 1928
The main thing I noticed is that the metal Saw Blade(S cuts) sounded different in the high speed video. They sounded smoother but that might just be the way speeding up the video make things sound.
I really like the logical and experimental way you go about testing your equipment. Thanks for sharing. FWIW, the only difference I have found between the saw blade guides that came with my Delta 14" band saw (using either phenolic or ceramic guides) and my Carter ball bearing guides is when I resaw wide boards. The Carter guides seem to help the blade stay on course better and the result is a straighter and smoother cut, with lest wasted wood --using identical blades. The difference, in my estimation, is not great, but I nonetheless am glad I upgraded. No doubt my own "sense" of how the two guides work affects my assessment, but that is always the case. Generally, I agree with your assessment that original equipment does a pretty good job -- because it is designed to do just that.
remembering back to shop class in school we had a new bandsaw come in and the set up guy said the friction blocks were to scrape the side to keep pitch and tree resin from collecting as well as aligning the blade. If he was correct that would make the set with the bearings instead of the friction block an inferior item. I looked at a set at a wood store and said that and the salesman just stopped his pitch and stared at me until I left. I guess the companies don't like being questioned.
Another big factor in how well a band saw cuts in terms of blade drift is the set on the blades and the wear on the outside of the teeth. This goes on top of wheel balance, blade tension*, blade guides and their adjustment, tire condition, pulley runout and belt condition. Most of my bandsaw experience is actually with industrial saws from DoAll. We always welded our own blades from 100' coils. The quality of the weld, proper annealing and grinding to establish width and a straight back were crucial. Actually having a welder on the saw made it easy to do internal work. I typically welded and kept blades for my own use. It is amazing just how long a blade will last when it is not in use by everyone in the shop. The guides on a DoAll are nothing fancy. Thrust bearings with replaceable wear covers and solid guides that slid in slots at a 45° to the blade travel. If these were worn it was a simple matter of trying them up on a surface grinder. I really miss having the facilities of a full Tool Room available. *Proper blade tension is around 40K psi. I know that sounds like a lot but on a 1/4 blade its only around 150lb/68kg or less because you actually have to account for the depth of the gullet. A fine 1/8th blade probably only needs 60 to 70 pounds
this was perfectly timed for me i was debating if it was worth upgrading from the cheap ones that came with the band saw as they have little half inch diameter bearing on the guides that i just hate any thoughts as to if i can just pull those out and replace them with some mild steel bar
Just a tip on the cheap ones, you said the lower guides were under the thrust bearing, but i have a similar piece on my saw and its turned around. My guess would be the manufactyrer mounts it with the thrust bearing down
It sounds like the real issue is if you have the guides set up correctly or not. Thanks to one of your earlier videos, I know how to set them up correctly. I like the bearing guides too.
I just upgraded from an old 14" Ridgid to a 14" Grizzly. The Ridgid had the cheap guides with blocks, while the Grizzly has bearings. I much prefer the Ridgid setup. You only have to worry about replacing the thrust bearings, and setup is much easier with the little knobs. I hate having to use a tool every time I want to make a minor adjustment.
any inspiration on the rikon spring loaded ones? I think their design might work well for easy adjustments( and as you have proven in this video, adjustment is one of the key factor)
very informative, I found that the cheap guides that came with my saw actually broke because the metal was really poor so I built some home made ones like yours and used the blocks and bearings from the original. Now I have the best of both all in one.
You just saved me $200.. Convinced myself i need to get some Carters, but i will just get new thrust bearings for my old Delta 14" that i picked up. Thanks Matthias!
Carter makes one I am interested in buying or making one. It is for scroll cutting only and you loosen your bottom guides so they do not touch the bade in any way other than the thrust bearing when it is cutting. Then the upper is two bearings stacked together and the edge has a slight taper where they meet. This replaces the upper blade guides with a wide thrust bearing that is grooved and you adjust it so the blade has a tiny pressure against it. The blade rides in the grove along the back. They are made for 1/4, 1/8 & 1/16th blades just for scroll cutting. From the videos they make a bandsaw cut almost as tight if not as tight as a scroll saw. But at the speed of a bandsaw. I am very interested in them. I only have a little shopsmith bandsaw for now I have no read complaints. It has metal guides, but I seen these and thought man that would be awesome to scroll cut 2 x material as fast as I can cut 3/8th in on my scroll saw. You should check them out. Any Idea the cost to build your saw minus the motor with prices today? I have always loved it.
Matthias, I was expecting you to discuss the sound qualities of each guide. Haven't you commented in the past about how some guides are louder than others? Was there any difference in this test?
From the high speed video, I noticed the modern looking guide blocks gave the least vibration or movement of the blade. But I think if you're a skilled person it probably doesn't matter.
Do you or anyone else, have issues with wear on the cheap blade guide blocks? I have the composite ones because the ones that came with my used bandsaw were all screwed up. I have grooves that have worn into the blocks and i have had to flip them around.
I wonder how good/bad/otherwise the ceramic style (ie Laguna) compare. They're probably closer to your homemade ones in terms of non-twirly parts. I have some on my Laguna saw, and they're... fine. Adjustability is OK, and they're come up fairly OK on the looks test if you could get the aluminium in non-Laguna colours, but I think on 'value for money' they'd fail hard.
I have Carters on a delta 14 inch. Much nicer than what he is demo-ing....also double bearing . excellent for resawing, when the pressure on the back roller is significant.
You're getting might close with these bandsaws Matthias! People will gossip! Some of the other tools could be getting jealous! ;-) Jokes aside, power forward, love your vids!
I think it is more important to have your bandsaw setup correctly than what guides you have and maybe if the guides are easy for you to adjust you'll be more likely to adjust them? :)
Radial bearings worst case can take a 10% axial load. The "louder" way is the stronger and intended orientation of the radial bearing design. The side guides themselves should almost touch the wheels. My take, for a mill bandsaw, use the louder orientation for sure. To cut tightly, touching the wheel will do better. In short what is ideal depends on your intent. Parts can be replaced.
Хобби
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I just want to pause right after he said he made spare parts for his bandsaw. I want to give a very heartfelt thank you to Matthias for all the work and effort he goes through to bring us information that we might not otherwise get anywhere else. I have watched probably hundreds of videos from him and other great makers like Jimmy Diresta, Izzy Swan and countless others but to see a fraction of the effort that goes into making one 8 1/2 min. video... that is truly exceptional and an amazing individual. Thank you and I appreciate all you do for watchers around the world.
Yeah, I didn't even notice the blade guides. All I could think was: 1. this guy built his own bandsaw and, 2. Matthias can cut a better circle/cylinder by hand than I can do with my circle-cutting jig.
I noticed those right away, too. And the painful-to-look-at shade of green he painted the saw exterior. I guess no one will mistake his saw for anyone elses.
I use ceramic blocks in my upper and lower side guides, and set up my saw using the methodology of Alec Snodgrass, but I DO use brass shim stock to set them for distance away from the blade. Hearing the statement, "they don't work," made me laugh out loud.
I used brass shim stock to set thousands of tools in CNC and manual mills and lathes for hundreds of setups. Some of the tolerances I needed to hold were as tight as +.0000"/-.0008" while certain aerospace, defense, and prototyping jobs required even tighter tolerances than that. I was commonly holding total tolerances less than .005" on turning, milling, sinker and wire EDM, and obviously grinding was about 10% of that .005" total.
Unless I had an electronic tool setter, like on some Haas machines, a tool setting probe, or my favorite, using an optical tool pre-setter, I always used brass shim stock, of verified thickness. Even when I did have access to those other methods/technologies, I ALWAYS followed up by checking the offset with a piece of brass shim stock.
It was just a few seconds per tool spent verifying the accuracy of the TLO, or coordinate offset value, which is ALWAYS less time then to try to clean up, or determine a fix for, cutting a dimension on a workpiece, especially a critical dimension, undersized and out of tolerance, due to having an incorrect offset. Time spent, a few seconds or a minute , per tool, just to verify each tool, is ALWAYS less time than it is trying to explain to your boss, and sometimes his/her boss, why you scrapped a very important work piece, for a very important customer, with extremely limited time before the delivery deadline, and having no excess stock of that material, to make a replacement part before the delivery date.
So it does work, just have a skilled and talented machinist, or toolmaker, demonstrate how it's done. Using the Alex Snodgrass set up procedure, and using my brass shimstock to set the distance of my ceramic guide blocks from the saw blade, has allowed me to achieve results which would be acceptable if I were in machining metal in a machine shop. I set up my extended range resaw fence, a recent shop project, and checked/adjusted the set up of the band saw, and in resawing 5 pieces all wider than 10 in, one piece 21 in in length, and the other four 34 in in length, I held all of the resultant thickness measurements within 0.004", so I have to say that I am pretty happy with my Jet 14in band saw, with a 6-inch riser block kit that was also a home shop project, and running a Wood Slicer blade. I must also add how pleased I am with that blade, as it never seemed to struggle or get overly built-up with saw dust despite the 10" and 11" the saw was cutting through, very little blade deflection or wobble, obviously no drift, and possibly the most impressive thing was how quiet the cuts were compared to other blades, in the same material but only cutting through a 5" to 6" wide workpiece.
Ok, apologies for the verbosity. Enough blather out of me. Time to get back to my shop and make some chips and dust.
"But no problem, I just made some more spare parts for my bandsaw"
If that comment doesn't accurately describe you Matthias, I don't know what does.
dannyb4283 exactly
dannyb4283 top gear will be missed
What a tremendous amount of work must have gone into making this excellent video. I recently had a brief conversation with a gentleman who directs British tv documentaries. This man utterly dismissed user-generated content as being typically blurry, ill-shot footage with crap audio and incompetent commentaries, full of inconsistencies and repetitions. I was reminded of the complacency shown by the British motorcycle industry in the face of Japanese competition.
It´s RUclipsrs of Mattias´ calibre who prove that the quality of user-generated content can exceed that of the best that professional tv producers can come up with : )
What the guy says was true 10 years ago. I guess he hasn't checked in a while!
I should have asked for his email address; I´m sure a link to your channel would bring him sharply up to date.
does he use email yet? :)
Perhaps I´ll sharpen my quill, dig out a sheet of parchment and advise him that way...
...and obviously no commercial influence!. Thanks Matthias.
Great video! I have been considering upgrading my guides with the Carter guides and now I know I will see little or no improvement. Thanks for saving me the time, trouble, and money.
Thank you for this very helpful and ingenious video. I recently came into possession of a 10" Craftsman model 113 bandsaw which is completely missing the lower blade guide assembly. My research so far has shown that these lower guides have a very high casualty rate, and so replacements are scarce to non-existent. I'm very inspired to see the possibilities that exist for thinking/building one's way out of the situation. For example, using wood for the guide support bracket already solves a lot of headaches for a guy without a machine shop. Keep up the great work!
Fascinating as always! You're a great asset for honest reviews.
Thanks for doing the comparison.
My 25+ year old 12"" Craftsman's guides are a real pain to adjust.
I always get a kick out of your tests - well done mate and thanks for sharing!
Fantastic Mattias. The carter style guides do guide very wide blades well. The bearings are moved just behind the gullet and the back of the blade runs in the thrust bearing slot. They can pack saw dust on sometimes and I hold the edge of a file to the blade to scrape it off from time to time. Really fun to see my old guides serve a purpose--- probably their highest purpose--- educational shoot out. They were always a nuisance to tune.
Loading of the blade with dust can be stopped (or at least helped significantly) by putting the heads from a couple of spent toothbrushes against the blade (via a new jig) a few cm under the rollers.
Love your videos, and all the home crafted tools. Keep 'em coming.
Amazing video, a lot of time spent on fab’ing and setting up the saw. Great work and thanks for the knowledge. Finally, genius build on the saw!
Really nice to see this Matthias! I've been debating between a quick release system and a new blade guide system for my saw. (About the same price) I think I'll skip the blade guides now. Thanks!
A compelling reason to use the bearing style guides is that you have a very obvious visual indication that they're set correctly when they begin to rotate as you turn the wheel. Sometimes they're tool-less, although I don't have any difficulty with using allen wrenches on mine.
I found that if the bearings aren't touching, it introduces a large amount of drift. If they are, there's almost none.
nice review.
Thanks for guiding us Matthias
Wow, you did a lot of work here and covered the guides really well. I bought the carter bearing ones that were cool to look at about 10 years ago for an extra band saw I intended to re-hab.
and am just setting it up now. I can procrastinate . I also should have thought about the rollers collecting debris. Thanks for the video.
Old, but still a good and informative video. Very refreshing to see someone actually suggest a less expensive product that works.
you are very honest while doing reviews or even self evaluation of your own made machine. Great job as always :)
Very smart analysis. I have gone back to liking square blade guides over bearings. The lower blade guide bearings on the bandsaw will get impacted with dust and resin or pitch from the wood making an adhesive coating on the bearing surfaces that effectively increases the diameter of the bearings making them run in full contact with the blade all the time . This will lead to premature bearing death. I have found the bearing'ed bandsaws eat bearings like candy especially in a shop where a lot of softwood is cut. Square metal or Cool Block guides are self cleaning. (I maintain the machinery in a Makerspace near Boston Ma. or as I like to call it, "The woodworking machinery testing laboratory", where there are lots of users of different skill levels and the users are particularly hard on the machinery.) So I agree with you, keep your old square blade guides.G.
With all the craziness in the world today, your nerdy woodworking videos are especially welcome. Thank you!
"With all the craziness in the world today"... Ha! We're nearing the end of 2020 now, we were all so naïve in 2017!
@@longleaf0 and don't unfasten your seatbelt just yet.. Hello from March 2021 :)
Man, Matthias, that's a *lot* of work to change out blade guides five times. Dedication, man. Cheers!
You just made my day. I bought a used 12" Craftsman and was thinking of upgrading the guides. It cuts great right now but I was believing the hype put out by Carter and The Wood Whisperer. I'll save my money towards a jointer instead of paying more for guides than I did the saw 😂
The psychological factor, I didn't see that one coming. Love the work you do, especially the glue joint testing and saw milling.
Ah, the psychological factor. Think of it as two different tools built to do the same job. It can be as simple as a hammer or as complicated as machine tool. If one feels crude and the other is a pleasure to use. Either because it fits the hand well and isn't awkward. Or because it is well made, fitted and seems effortless when operating as in the case of a machine tool which would you rather use or own.
Hi Matthias, I thinkyou are absolutely brilliant. Love the bandsaw and the box jig.
I would have to say this test was not long enough. I've spent many days behind a bandsaw and bearing guides are pretty much a set it and forget it. I've never
Carter recommends if you're using a quarter inch blade or smaller to only use the top guides and completely move the lowers out-of-the-way. also they say to preload the blade with the thrust bearing about 1/8 of an inch. counterintuitively this actually allows smaller blades to twist and flex which really helps with tight corners believe it or not.
pre-loading helps keep the blade in the guides and makes it easier to back out of a cut.
Hi Matthias, I found your testing video after watching something else, I am subscribed to your chancel and I rang the bell to always so I am at a loss as to why I had not seen this video before and to make sure that I had not missed any other videos I embarked on a marathon video watching of all your videos, I found that to be very entertaining and therapeutic as well. That was the only video I had not seem before but now I have set up an appointment in outlook to remind me to check all your videos for the last month so that I don’t miss anymore.
Great video Matthias! my new Rikon 10-326 has guide bearings that are very easy to adjust. You should check out their design.
This is such an excellent review in so many ways. I appreciate the honesty. You also saved me some money.
Wow, the amount of work you put into this comparison.
Just goes to show you it' s all about the setup and how easy it is to adjust. Well done.
Cheers.
amazing video. true craftsmanship. I was just trying to cut a semi circle out and it seemed to be burning the wood. it was oak. half inch thick.
Matthias, Thank you for another great video. I'd love to see a video with tips and tricks for bandsaws. (forgive me if there already is one, I couldn't find it.) You use them masterfully.
You make it look so easy to cut perfect circles freehand!
Thanks Matthias! I need to replace the guides on my bandsaw and this helped out a lot.
Your home made bandsaw is amazing. To see how steady and good it work, is impressing. Have a nice weekend with your family. best wishes from Jan in Norway
Great video. Thanks so much for doing this comparison that most people will never be able to do themselves. Careful using those bolts instead of the set screws. I broke my cheap set because I lost one of the set screws and replaced it with a small bolt just like the one you use. Its harder to tell how much force you are putting on the bolt and it doesnt take much to break that cheap metal that is used. Once they break they are pretty much not fixable.
Pretty sure the skill of the user is a major factor
Thanks Matthias. Nice simple topic, I have a 20" Delta from the 50-60's that I need to update the blade guides on. I won't look for anything spectacular then, but it needs to be robust and foolproof with H.S. students using the saw.
Most importantly, thanks for the videos. Just built a tilting bandsaw (doubles as a seldom use mill) and these have been helpful.
Four bandsaws and at least six sets of guides have rotated through my shop in the last 40 years. Your findings are exactly what I'd have guessed. Those cheapie guides from a Delta/Rockwell 14" bandsaw would be fine if only there was a micrometer adjustment to the guide blocks. The trick to setting the gap with any of the guides is to use either a rolling paper or cellophane off a pack of cigarettes folded around the back of the blade. Bring the easiest guide close until it is just touching. After it is locked down bring the other guide hard up against the paper then lock it down. You'll end up with just a couple thousandths clearance evenly divided between the left side and right.
Your bandsaw is amazing. I wish I had seen this before I spent for Carter on my delta 14.
You could learn loads with this guy. So talented.
Nice comparison and good points to consider! Like you said, boils down to user preference. Curious what your Dad liked on his bandsaw?
Have things changed much out at the country shop?
Any build projects upcoming for the home?
For a moment I thought the last test was without guides to see the difference they make... Still though very good infos. I always enjoy your tests
I really enjoyed this video. So many commenters had speculated about different designs and finally we can put that all to rest.
Great work matthias.
I built your 16" bandsaw to the plans. I used lignum vitae for the blade guides, although I considered teflon. Lignum was cheaper. The blade guides are far better than on our powermatic 1500, delta 14", and (no surprise) grizzly 9". Easier to adjust, hold adjustment better, quiet, looks good. The lignum can go pretty tight against the blade without issue. Another type of blade guide I have seen on metal cutting bandsaws is bearing bronze with a slit cut in it for the blade, usual ball bearing behind the blade. Not adjustable for blade thickness (e.g. .035") but simple and unobstructive.
I love the comparisons. Great video.
Great video. Love the honest no nonsense comparison.
so right about the mental mind tricks. the sales pitch on anything is always going to be (this is the guides you've been looking for. or make the most accurate cuts you can possibly make with our product.
Well in my opinion some of the best carpentry work was done long before I was born and long before any of these full bearing guides where around I do admire the idea of less friction but in actuality I think that the blocks provide a bigger surface to contact the blade making them a better choice.
I'm looking into this for metal working. But bro!!! Top nods & a hat off to you for making your own band saw out of wood.
One comparison that you did not do was cost, although it is quite easy to see the winner
If you want a much more strenuous guide test try doing Chapman bandsaw puzzles using a 1/8" blade. Even if it's not for a test I'd like to see you make one of these anyway. They're just fun and your kiddo would like it.
Hello bro, I am in Zanzibar islands, I saw yr wonderful experience and ideal for bandsaw blade guide, here it is impossible to get any spare parts as you shown different blade guides, my bandsaw is from my third generation may be 1928
Way to go Matthias! You hit it out of the park! (if you like sports metaphores) Excellent.
excellent video I really like your videos why you explain very well thanks brother I have learned a lot from your videos
The main thing I noticed is that the metal Saw Blade(S cuts) sounded different in the high speed video. They sounded smoother but that might just be the way speeding up the video make things sound.
Would be really curious to see how ceramic style guides (as comes on Laguna saws, for example) match up against the roller-bearing style.
I really like the logical and experimental way you go about testing your equipment. Thanks for sharing.
FWIW, the only difference I have found between the saw blade guides that came with my Delta 14" band saw (using either phenolic or ceramic guides) and my Carter ball bearing guides is when I resaw wide boards. The Carter guides seem to help the blade stay on course better and the result is a straighter and smoother cut, with lest wasted wood --using identical blades.
The difference, in my estimation, is not great, but I nonetheless am glad I upgraded. No doubt my own "sense" of how the two guides work affects my assessment, but that is always the case. Generally, I agree with your assessment that original equipment does a pretty good job -- because it is designed to do just that.
If the blade is wider than the guide blocks, always put the guide blocks as close to the teeth as possible.
I find that adjusting the blade guides close to the saw teeth really helps with resawing, too.
Jerry Stark p
remembering back to shop class in school we had a new bandsaw come in and the set up guy said the friction blocks were to scrape the side to keep pitch and tree resin from collecting as well as aligning the blade. If he was correct that would make the set with the bearings instead of the friction block an inferior item. I looked at a set at a wood store and said that and the salesman just stopped his pitch and stared at me until I left. I guess the companies don't like being questioned.
Matthias, indeed, has studied the blade.
Great demo, Matthias, thanks.
I have never seen such a talented person anywhere... I mean seriously....!!! WOW
Couldn't you flip the cheap bottom guide to get the guide blocks above the thrust bearing?
Should have thought of that, but I mounted it the way it's mounted in the actual bandsaw.
OK, good advise. I will subscribe because this is the first time I have come across your post.
thank you for this Matthias. I would be interested in your opinion on different brands of bandsaw blades.
Another big factor in how well a band saw cuts in terms of blade drift is the set on the blades and the wear on the outside of the teeth. This goes on top of wheel balance, blade tension*, blade guides and their adjustment, tire condition, pulley runout and belt condition. Most of my bandsaw experience is actually with industrial saws from DoAll. We always welded our own blades from 100' coils. The quality of the weld, proper annealing and grinding to establish width and a straight back were crucial. Actually having a welder on the saw made it easy to do internal work. I typically welded and kept blades for my own use. It is amazing just how long a blade will last when it is not in use by everyone in the shop. The guides on a DoAll are nothing fancy. Thrust bearings with replaceable wear covers and solid guides that slid in slots at a 45° to the blade travel. If these were worn it was a simple matter of trying them up on a surface grinder. I really miss having the facilities of a full Tool Room available.
*Proper blade tension is around 40K psi. I know that sounds like a lot but on a 1/4 blade its only around 150lb/68kg or less because you actually have to account for the depth of the gullet. A fine 1/8th blade probably only needs 60 to 70 pounds
this was perfectly timed for me i was debating if it was worth upgrading from the cheap ones that came with the band saw as they have little half inch diameter bearing on the guides that i just hate any thoughts as to if i can just pull those out and replace them with some mild steel bar
Interesting, but probably not surprising results... love the title 🤓👍🏼
Just a tip on the cheap ones, you said the lower guides were under the thrust bearing, but i have a similar piece on my saw and its turned around. My guess would be the manufactyrer mounts it with the thrust bearing down
It sounds like the real issue is if you have the guides set up correctly or not. Thanks to one of your earlier videos, I know how to set them up correctly. I like the bearing guides too.
I just upgraded from an old 14" Ridgid to a 14" Grizzly. The Ridgid had the cheap guides with blocks, while the Grizzly has bearings. I much prefer the Ridgid setup. You only have to worry about replacing the thrust bearings, and setup is much easier with the little knobs. I hate having to use a tool every time I want to make a minor adjustment.
any inspiration on the rikon spring loaded ones? I think their design might work well for easy adjustments( and as you have proven in this video, adjustment is one of the key factor)
very informative, I found that the cheap guides that came with my saw actually broke because the metal was really poor so I built some home made ones like yours and used the blocks and bearings from the original. Now I have the best of both all in one.
Thanks for that tip Matthias, now I don't feel bad for looking for a bargain when I finally can afford a band saw.
Thanks for the comparison!
You just saved me $200.. Convinced myself i need to get some Carters, but i will just get new thrust bearings for my old Delta 14" that i picked up. Thanks Matthias!
Idea for a future video: Wooden Hand Spinner?
Wish I were half as crafty as Matthias. This dude rocks
what is really amazing is that bandsaw! I take it you made it amazing work and a good video you just saved me from wasting money thanks!!
It would be interesting to see if there is a difference in the performance of the blade guides when resawing thick boards.
that requires wider blades, and for wider blades, the guides matter much less.
Can't wait to see your sawmill experiments with this saw
Carter makes one I am interested in buying or making one. It is for scroll cutting only and you loosen your bottom guides so they do not touch the bade in any way other than the thrust bearing when it is cutting. Then the upper is two bearings stacked together and the edge has a slight taper where they meet. This replaces the upper blade guides with a wide thrust bearing that is grooved and you adjust it so the blade has a tiny pressure against it. The blade rides in the grove along the back. They are made for 1/4, 1/8 & 1/16th blades just for scroll cutting. From the videos they make a bandsaw cut almost as tight if not as tight as a scroll saw. But at the speed of a bandsaw. I am very interested in them. I only have a little shopsmith bandsaw for now I have no read complaints. It has metal guides, but I seen these and thought man that would be awesome to scroll cut 2 x material as fast as I can cut 3/8th in on my scroll saw. You should check them out. Any Idea the cost to build your saw minus the motor with prices today? I have always loved it.
Fantastic review!
can't say I have considered replacing my guides but now I know it's not worth it! Many thanks
Great comparison
Matthias, I was expecting you to discuss the sound qualities of each guide.
Haven't you commented in the past about how some guides are louder than
others? Was there any difference in this test?
Only the ball bearing guides make a bit of sound. The rest - less sound than the idling bandsaw, and definitely less than actually cutting.
From the high speed video, I noticed the modern looking guide blocks gave the least vibration or movement of the blade. But I think if you're a skilled person it probably doesn't matter.
Very interesting. I half expected some dramatic noise level differences.
Do you or anyone else, have issues with wear on the cheap blade guide blocks? I have the composite ones because the ones that came with my used bandsaw were all screwed up. I have grooves that have worn into the blocks and i have had to flip them around.
I wonder how good/bad/otherwise the ceramic style (ie Laguna) compare. They're probably closer to your homemade ones in terms of non-twirly parts. I have some on my Laguna saw, and they're... fine. Adjustability is OK, and they're come up fairly OK on the looks test if you could get the aluminium in non-Laguna colours, but I think on 'value for money' they'd fail hard.
Really nice information. I've been thinking about buying a set of Carters but didn't want to spend the money.
I have Carters on a delta 14 inch. Much nicer than what he is demo-ing....also double bearing . excellent for resawing, when the pressure on the back roller is significant.
I'm curious about the way, you have mounted the bottom ( in 1:21) and top bearing in 1:39. Why haven't you mounted them in "series", behind the blade?
Thank you. This was very helpful!
You're getting might close with these bandsaws Matthias! People will gossip! Some of the other tools could be getting jealous! ;-)
Jokes aside, power forward, love your vids!
I think it is more important to have your bandsaw setup correctly than what guides you have and maybe if the guides are easy for you to adjust you'll be more likely to adjust them? :)
Radial bearings worst case can take a 10% axial load. The "louder" way is the stronger and intended orientation of the radial bearing design. The side guides themselves should almost touch the wheels. My take, for a mill bandsaw, use the louder orientation for sure. To cut tightly, touching the wheel will do better. In short what is ideal depends on your intent. Parts can be replaced.
Man you are talented!
Great video, just wondering what material the little blocks in the cheap blade guide is, carbon?
probably just iron, relatively soft.
Matthias Wandel that's interesting, cheers for the reply
The best video about bandsaw, congraulations