Milwaukee 8 Problems Part 1 | MAJOR FACTORY DEFECT FOUND | Kevin Baxter - Pro Twin Performance
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Milwaukee 8 problems found. Harley M8 Factory Defect Found. In this video we uncover why this engine was making loud banging noises for over 20,000 miles. We tear down this Harley Milwaukee 8 step by step. This is part 1 of a 3 part series. Harley M8 vs Twin Cam. Which is better? Is the Twin Cam Harley better than Milwaukee 8? Or is the Harley Milwaukee 8 better than the Twin Cam?
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/ @kevinbaxter
Pro Twin Performance and Baxter's Garage
723 W Winder Industrial Pkwy
Winder, GA 30680
(678) 226-9651 
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Be sure to watch Thursday Night and Friday night at 6pm easter to see part 2 and 3! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
This looks intentional. The chips are too big to have migrated throughout the system.
You know that drill chips look different than reamer chips, look different than shavings from interference.
Before I said that maybe the cases weren't blown out good before assembly.
I don't think this amount of contamination could be overlooked.
Lol, now I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve staying awake to see Santa come down the chimney. This Gets my blood pumping. Love it
Definitely will be watching! You have the best Harley channel on the tube! Have a Happy And Safe thanksgiving!
What model is this m8 from?
Wow what a great tech you are I have learned a ton from watching your videos.. I came from sport bikes an haven’t had a Harley in a long time so I appreciate your videos.. I have a 2020 street Bob 107 stage 2 an soon to be 128stage 4.. 2 bros exhaust an s&s intake harley tuner etc keep up the good work!
Owner: "Look at these metal chips from inside my engine."
H-D Service Technician: "Normal wear."
Hd: Let's not look until the warranty is up.
And that’s incorrect.
lol
Reminds me of the harley dealer back in the early 70s when he said the oil leaks are normal
@@badcompany227 no it's not
A mechanic that actually cares and listens to the customer. Kudos to the mechanic for being honest and knowing how to troubleshoot by process of elimination.
No doubt! A true technician and not just a parts changer.
Good thing he brought it to a real mechanic
Thank you Chris. Happy Thanksgiving.
Not that hard working on those 1940's Chinese reproduction Motors
AND NOT THE HARLEY DEALER THAT'S TRAINED TO SAY: "OH, THAT'S A NORMAL HAMMERING SOUND".
The bad thing is he bought a Harley
@@illla NOT SO QUICK! WHEN THE MOTOR DIES, HE CAN STILL IMPRESS FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS BY SITTING ON IT IN HIS DRIVEWAY WHILE SAYING: "POTATO, POTATO, POTATO"......AS FOR THE 20 GRAND HE'S OUT? OH WELL!
I am amazed how this made it though so many services and repeated questions about the engine at dealers, the gross incompetency of his dealer mechanics is astounding. I have never had this level of defect on my motorcycle but I would hope my mechanics are not this incompetent to tell me a loud banging is normal.
LOL its because the MMI trained techs arent what they used to be. MMI used to be a fantastic school until it merged with UTI and now they just rush them through and certify them. Here ya go kid now your a certified HD tech. [Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki and BMW too] The dealers hire MMI guys. I went through MMI back in 1994 when it was a real school
Bad build quality, have bought three new Harley’s 90’ super glide, 97’Electra glide 2018 Heritage Classic with the big engine. No problems, but it seems that the production controllers on the line have been fewer. And all the new electronic components make it very difficult and costly to maintain the new models.
These appear to be drill chips.
Like the cases weren't blown out good before assembly, or someone, maybe a disgruntled Harley employee, dumped a hand full of drill chips into the case.
These are not chips from something rubbing. They are entirely too big for that.
That sound like it mite just be that, really makes no sence.
Idk watch in real time for 15 minutes. Get your hope up . drum roll please!!!!!!!!! Sub for more!!! Worst ending ever.!!! Ugg and yes if it was doing that since new ??? Someone messed up !
This is an excellent example of what happens when a legend is no more..and the difference when dealers have no control of anything anymore....sad
Harley-Davidsons' mission statement. No matter what the problem....That's normal, they all do that.
What a bullshit line that sucks to know you can’t get an honest answer
Yup....I've heard that from the mouth of dealers. It's why I stick to older Evo 90's Sportster and big blocks.
After the twinkie debacle I wouldn't consider anything new from these clowns. Anyone else hear the new CEO wants to up the price, reduce availability, &try and turn then into a luxury vehicle? I love my HD but I have no faith in the company anymore.
This is why I hate Harley Davidson!!!!! Why the hell would anyone waist their hard earned money on this garbage. Dude Honda does not have this fucking bullshit. Fuck Harley Davidson motorcycles
@@andrewsumner5388 ha ha harley riders are so sensitive
Nothing has changed since 1976 when I bought my first one electrical problem s oil leaks spongy brakes what can I say 😂
With every video, I'm rapidly giving up on Harley dealership mechanics.
As an owner of a Twin cam 88 and all that came with that engine, it doesn't surprise me that Harley is still making the same mistakes.
They make a beautiful engine for a beautiful bike then pinch pennies in a critical area of the engine.
Only "suits", do that. And "suits" are what has been wrong with a number of corporations. From a retired machinist, who has worked on/produced better aftermarket HD engine cases.
The Twin Cam is purely a bean counter engine designed to avoid the precision assembly required from the 1930s to the Evo. Non-mechanics who don't do HD history don't understand the more complex engine uses cheap CNC parts to save expensive labor. HDs are easy to work on but NOTHING about their drivetrains is a "premium" part. The roller bearing bottom end certainly was a premium part through the 1960s but that was a long time ago. HD does not actively seek to produce quality components. That's what the (glorious) aftermarket is for.
The last HD engine designed for longevity was the Evo Sportster which should have been copied as a four-cam big twin (the late Alan Sputhe proved it building his four cammers), but Evos had issues too. Fortunately they're all easy to rebuild and most riders are old men who don't ride many miles.
Drinking Budwiesers and eating Pringles watching your vid. Better than cable my friend, better than cable.
My Man Richard! LOL. Thanks bud. Dinner of Champions!
Get a life.
TOTALLY AGREE. FRIEND OF MINE ONCE SAID: "10,000 CHANNELS AND NOTHIN'S ON"
@@Tuesdaysgonewtw you are watching the same ,. does that mean you need to get a life??
It's an intelligent program, at least.
Just want to thank you for all your videos, I learn so much from them and I really appreciate all the work you put into them. Thank you!!
The guy is super talented. These put me over the edge after 35 years and 11 Harleys I now own a Challenger? Time will tell, M8 should be covered under a lemon law
I sold both my twin cams and bought a 98 FLSTF Evo they are bullet proof..I have it and my 72 FLH police special. These two bikes are in excellent condition and are the newest bikes I plan to own.
That's what i was doing.. than I got sucked into a 2020 FLHTP... All my performs go fast bikes were German and Italian... the M8 so far has been fun with a cam... better once it is skunked!
You bought two of the worst engines Harley ever made, and I’m not talking about the twin cam.
What a cliff hanger :) !! Can't wait till part deux! - Thanks Kevin!
You bet!
This feels like a very intense cliff hanger movie 😂 looking forward to parts 2 and 3!!
Lol. See ya tonight. Thanks for watching.
I just want to say I was so nervous when I saw the impact, then you took the bit off and broke the bolts loose by hand. THANK YOU!! I get so pissed when I see "mechanics" break bolts loose and tighten bolts into dissimilar metals (e.g. SS bolts into/out of cast aluminum blocks) with an impact. So much respect for your attention to detail and treating it as your own. Awesome videos!!
Kevin, GREAT JOB on the video series! I have seen this exact failure in three M8's so far, and about all the same mileage 20-30k. Sad that the motor company let that through production. Again, GREAT VIDEO's!
Tks Kevin for this Vid .... uR search & its dilemma ..cant wait till the final breakdown & diagnosis to see the culprit
I liked seeing how well your tools are organized. Very little off-task time looking for a tool.
I’m very intrigued to find out the results of the problem. I’ll be watching
Great prep, good scripting, good delivery, likeable persona, interesting subject, very few ads.
What's not to like, thumbs up.
Thanks for this (and the other) informative and valuable videos. This is good info to know.
I don't think I have ever been so absorbed by a video. Absolutely fascinating in an autopsy kind of way.
Make's me regret - once again - that I took up electrical/ electronics instead of mechanical engineering.
Great video on a fantastic channel. Probably not very surprising to folks that tear these engines down all the time but was surprising to me. I wonder how often a lack of quality control during build is responsible for customer complaints. Shame on the previous dealers that have looked at this bike and wrote it off as "normal". Keep up the good work.
Takes a mechanic who is inquisitive enough to ignore the factory and figure things out.
LSHD is fortunate to have a couple stellar mechanics who don't mind bringing the others up to speed.
I don't currently own a Harley (have had three in the past so like em BTW) but this is a great channel to watch and learn from.
Great three part series- just subscribed to channel. Looking forward to seeing content.
My buddy has a m8 bottom up at Darkhorse getting done right now... got a call and the lifter ports were machined from harley oval-shaped/out of round.. they are going to have to machine it and he need to re think his build plans... great video!
Hey we saw you looking back to see if you were blocking the camera. Your getting very professional. And you have always been the most enthusiastic person on RUclips.
Mechanic School has a 1-day class on how to genuinely say, "They all do that."
This is so interesting and fun for the viewer (me)!!! One thought is something is inside the oil pump which is causing the gerotors to seize up and could cause that sporadic banging sound. It would also explain the massive amount of shavings due to the thickness of the pump and also the lack of oil in the cam chest. You already looked down the tappet holes so if it was a cam defacing, you would have already told us and the rollers on the tappets would have shown more wear.
I’m still perplexed at this point. Great video. Happy thanksgiving
Well Joe...I am as well on a few of the details. I've never seen the combination of things I saw in this engine. A few things really dont make sense.
Good video Kevin.
Tuning in tomorrow for more.
Thanks 👍
This was beyond enough to make me subscribe! Thanks!!!
I rigged up a small clear fuel line hose onto the shop vac. I put a t-shirt filter between sections to catch all the bits for inspection and you can get down into some pretty tight spots. Dealer bullshit.... this is why we all need to be our own mechanics when we can. Solid guys like you are hard to come by
Dude, that is a pile of metal. In my world, automotive, thats borderline catastrophic.
Absolutely. This first handful is frightening let alone 3. WOW!
CHUNKS
Well you have me hooked. Need to hook up a big screen in my garage so I can do my own work while watching your vids.
Right on!
Happy belated Thanksgiving to you too. First, you are a top notch mechanic. Second, your establishment appears to be run in a similar fashion. Very impressive. New subscriber here by the way. I owned, and enjoyed, a twin cam 88 Road King Classic for nearly 16 years. Reluctantly took out the extended warranty at the time of purchase, in 2004. Never needed it. Never any issues. Traded it in last September on my factory ordered Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack. Got the itch several weeks ago to "downsize" from the touring class and return to the cruiser class. Fell in love with, and purchased, one of the last of the 2020 Fat Bob's in Performance Orange. Did NOT take the factory extended warranty this time! I hope there's not another reason why they pushed this heavily. I love the bike but will be absolutely pi**ed off if, after a good 2 to 3 years on the market, that Harley didn't address such a defect in the M8, should one exist, as your title reads...
This video is an ASMR for bikers! Hehehe I love your videos , thank you for sharing
Best video I watched all month. Can't wait to find out what the odd noise in my evo is. Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks for watching!
It's like a mystery movie! A real 'who done it!"
I'm looking towards the assembly line myself!
Cam bearing in EVO is known to be weak part of motor it uses a INA caged bearing they are junk,I put a old style needle bearing in mine.
I bought an eco sportster new in 1993 and put 108,000 miles on it. Only engine gaskets and a clutch replaced. Still runs great.
I'm going to jump the gun here guys, and speculate that the Swarf that Kev's pulling out of there came out of the heads. Too large to go through the oil-galleries and get caught by the filter, ... they went down the lifter-tubes and got stuck at the lifters.... every so often they would get thrown around by the cams and that's what was causing the banging. My thoughts here are: 1] improper procedures for removing swarf during CNC machining. 2] improper filtering of the machining coolant and there might have been back wash of swarf back into the head during tooling, and 3] improper QC during assembly .
And now like the rest of You all.... We wait for Kevin's analysis ...
Stay Safe !!
I am still baffled by what I saw....I will say, there are a few details that just dont make sense.
The metal chips in the lifter port could cause a partially collapsed lifter... that could make a loud clacking noise.
Outstanding vid thank you sir
Just finished watching part 1 and commenting as I go. I'd have paid money to be able to hang out over your shoulder in this adventure. The first thing I notice is that you're the real deal wrench bending mechanic. You can always tell by the confident dexterity of a guy using tools in a RUclips vid - some guys just look awkward and its a sure sign that they haven't invested their life in doin this stuff. Hello brother. This vid is better than a new Star Wars movie. So eager to see the plot unfold and I don't even own a harley anymore. How the hell is there not any metal in the filter? With as much aluminum as I've seen coming out, you could probably cast an entire set of lower cases for a small two stroke dirt bike. Subscribed and goin on to Pt 2.
No visible wear , shavings & bits everywhere - too heavy to travel through the oil stream - my guess ; it wasn’t completely washed out after being machined during manufacturing 🤔
EXACTLY what I was thinking.
Exactly what I thought. Probably left in some cross holes. The only other thing I was thinking was a crumbling casting.
Exactly
@@mitchstaff8281 once while working at a Honda shop we had CB750 dohc with the lower rear engine mount threw bolt leaking oil.. about halfway down through the engine mount bolt hole in the cases there was a porosity. Come to find out there were several that year that had prophecies in there engine cases
@@donniebaker5984 Porosity sure can, and has been, an issue that can be a very sneaky thing to find.
Seeing all those shavings gave me anxiety. Great video. Thank you.
Just like when fonzi jumped the shark. To be continued 🤘⚡️🤘
HAHA. Just Like That! Thanks!
@@KevinBaxter when I was a kid I was like what the heck. Wait a week till next Tuesday night. 😂🤣😂🤣. Great videos Kevin.
Just subbed! Have a brand new FXLRS, got me on my toes watching this! Great work!
You make the best videos Kevin !!
Thank you sir!!
Watching with interest as I have 3 bikes with 107 m8 motors and 1 with a 114 m8
thanks KB
Sounds like you will need to split the cases to get that debris
Looking forward to part 2&3. Happy 🦃 day! 👍👍
Thanks! You too!
Fascinating.
I'm a Brit mechanic/machinist, worked on bikes all my adult life, mainly into anything old with pushrods. Brit bikes, Guzzis, Airhead Beemers and... Harleys.
Worked on all Sportys pre rubber mount inc Ironheads, and Shovels and Evos.
HD lost me when accountants held sway over engineers, chains replacing gears in a cam case? Doing away with the trapdoor on Sportsters was a criminal offence. To save a $1.50.
Etc etc.
Subscribed,
regards from NE Thailand.
Damn good video, you always keep it interesting 👍
Thank you Dj! I appreciate it.
I bought a 2018 Breakout 114 M8 and have had no problems. I'm a first time Harley buyer with no allegiance to the brand. I bought the bike because of the simple look and 240MM back tire. My only issue was the price tag. LOL. Finding out what's going on with this bike really interest me.
Enjoyed video. Can't wait to see why all the shavings are in there. Hope you and your family has a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Thank you! You too! Happy Thanksgiving!!!
boltster is cool. I'm gonna stick with squares of soft cardboard which I can use after putting a bunch of razor knife slits into it. Push through the bolts and they never fall out regardless of a drop or carry. It works great and I can label it off with a marker. Even stands up around the parts cleaner and oil and grease, no problem. easy to come by and I can separate squares sectioning off bolt groups and hardware. Take my word, it works great. Thank You for all your work and great content. P.S Kevin, if nobody told ya, there's a white spot on the back of your head. A guy could go his whole life and never see that one..... great work madman.
That's why I loved my Victory Freedom 106. Still has weaknesses, but this M8 is scary.
This is a lot like my 17. Plus I had a bent cam plate. Tech said I needed a new motor, corporate said it was all normal and here’s some parts, rebuild. 4 times that bike left me stranded.
I was considering a 2023 Heritage Classic, but after watching this video, that's just right out. I thought that surely by now they'd finally fixed all the defects in these engines - wrong! Putting band-aids on a turd doesn't work. Thanks for keeping me from making a seriously expensive mistake!
Incroyable, merci de nous expliquer....
Watched less than a minute and put the thumbs up. Go dude go!
Thanks Bruce!
I believe the problem is up in the rocker boxes ,because of how much shavings were at the bottom of the push rod tubes. Nice job Thanks for all the help with your videos. Rick D.
That is my guess. Shaving the rocker box covers.
Thank you Richard! Tomorrow and Friday! See you then.
Thank you
Welcome!
Great video Kevin, after watching a few times I noticed the back of your shirt looks ventilated. I bet that comes in handy with the Georgia heat. I'll have to check your merch for a staff shirt from Baxter's Garage
Good video! Thanks
Friend of mine had that exact problem on extended warranty. HD told him they didn't have coverage for exploratory on it so drive it until it blows. He managed to trade it in at another dealer between noises.
I have a 2017-18 M8 Street Bob with about 18000kms on it and I ride it hard. Long open country roads mean average is about 130kms per hour and its been over 200kms. I love this bike. Handles like a sportster with corners and goes like the wind. Not all M8s have issues.
ANY issues on such an expensive machine are unacceptable. Too many people make excuses for their machines (I collect vintage British bikes but readily admit they're mechanically delicate garbage that killed their original companies). It's 2022. Failure is unacceptable.
I think the Twin Cam 103 is the last and best sounding Harley.
I will just keep rebuilding my 05 t.c. it went from stock to big bore with ported heads. Now it's a 103 geared cams with ported heads balanced crank.
On my 2020 RKS, the shop discovered a large piece of flashing, just barely attached to the case right at the oil filler. One two finger twist and it fell off. Good shops look for this stuff with our M8's
Great videos man
Appreciate it!
If you don’t do your own work, and know what your doing, a knowledgeable honest mechanic if hard to find.
My 2006 vtx1800 is a beast! 50,000 miles no problems whatsoever!
I can't wait to see actual problem...
Looking forward to when you pull the cam chest and oil pump. I didn't trust the Harley pump on my 114, so I replaced it with a Fueling race series pump when I replaced my cam
I have a 114 RGS also what did it run you to install and purchase and did you loose gas mileage
Never done anything but oil changes, tires and brakes in the 150000 miles I've had my fjr.and it hits 9000 rpms every day.I learned my Harley lesson at an early age about 30 years ago and never again! two of my happiest moments was the day I got it and the day I got rid of it.
Hmm never had a Harley motor apart.... Gota say when u were checking crankshaft runout sounded a bit like to a dull tool trying to cut.... Maybe a little extra created by the flywheel... I an staying tuned in.... Great info....
Man I hate cliffhangers! What an interesting video 👍🏻
Thank you sir. 1.5 hrs of footage. Huge file. 30 mins tonight, and 30 mins tomorrow night.....same time. See you there.
I just replaced the cylinder base gaskets and lifter guide block gaskets on my 93' Dyne Evo 80" and I can tell you that plastic cuff is no substitute for a guide block !
6:30.. "cut this out"... love it :)
Great video Kev, this one must be a leftover from the AMF days! Ha Ha!!
looking at the shavings, it looks like they didn't flush the chips after machining
That's why I waited till 2022 to get my M8. I worked for Harley Davidson dealership for 19 years and watched all the b/s the TC went through to finally have a good engine. Didn't get one. Seems they got the M8 GTG after what, three issues. Been ragging on mine since October and haven't had any issues or broke anything...
Do you know that my eyes were bulging out and my mouth was like 😲 when the video suddenly shut off??? I had to pop a couple Alka-Seltzer!
😆 Happy Thanksgiving 🦃
Can't wait for part 2 & 3
Lol....1.5 hours of footage...figured the best way is to do 3 30min segments. The next tonight at 6, and the 3rd tomorrow night same time. Try not to work with huge files. Dialed the resolution down to 720 on this one too instead of our normal 1080p. Didn't think anyone would mind. Haha. Thanks for watching
I may be in the process of buying a used 2018 114” Ultra Limited with 30K miles on the clock here in the U.K. I pray that after so many miles, the motor would have coughed up any manufacturing faults during that time.
Hello Kevin... Just wanted to get a "Happy Thanksgiving," shout out to you and everyone!
Peace, friendship, and safe riding to all!
Thanks for that! Happy Thanksgiving James to you and yours!
Precision engineering at its best from Hardly
You need a HELMET Cam or maybe rig up an "overhead" camera attached to the cylinder heads!! Love that roll cart, too!! I have the same one in Hemi Orange!!
Thats a good idea. I'll look into a body cam.
@@KevinBaxter ohh, God, not a Body cam!!! LOL Actually a big mirror strategically placedin view of the camera would work, too..
Great stuff Kevin!! I have a 2020 M8, I'm anxious to see what you find.
Thanks! You Too!!
Awesome video 👍
Thank you 👍
Great video - what I do not understand is how Harley Davidson claims to test ride new builds before production for a million miles and never saw the oil sump issue
Damn, Harley makes a great bike for a t-shirt company.
That Boltster is nifty. Having so many holes over a large area allows you to insert the bolts to match the pattern of the cam cover, so you can 'map out' the order of the bolts (in case they are different lengths). Sure beats using cardboard.
Kevin, definitely a good watch and mystery. Crossing my fingers that whatever you find to be the culprit isn't affecting my M8. I just turned 32,000 miles and about to pop the cam cover to check the chain tensioner pad... already decided to upgrade the camplate, oil pump, cam, lifters, and tappet cuffs. Almost afraid to look...LoL. Looking forward to the rest of the story.
Can't wait to see the problem. Seems it could be anything from poor quality control from HD to the lifters boring a bigger hole for themselves creating all the shavings. odd that its on both front and rear lifters, thoughts will change after the next video im sure. Cheers from Australia
Cheers Mate. I love OZ. 🇦🇺
I sold my last Harley two years ago and will never look back. Junque.
I once had a inline 4 Chevy motor from boat come in with a spiral broken crankshaft similar to these findings. when we pulled the pan we found drilling curls( later matched up to the same diameter of the crank balancing drill out) A curl got tossed up into the end play bearing cap, jambed the crank causing the spiral break. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's right!!
It's called a THRUST BEARING.
Not surprised