I like the fact that SEES is a group that didn't really connect at first. They were just a group with a mission at first. There's some unspoken grudge some of the members have with each other which makes it nice when the group starts to open up with each other. Then we have the Investigation Team which has the average teen dynamic. Each member are well connected with each other, there are even events where you can encounter some of them hanging out even without the MC. You can really see that they are close with each other. And finally we have the Phantom Thieves, a group that is connected by the MC. You can even see how awkward they are with one another when they are suggesting their showtime. I haven't played Strikers so I don't know if their dynamic improved in that sequel.
Strikers doesn’t really get the group dynamic to improve. It’s still the same case of having pairs that interact with each other well and then feels like they barely know anyone else. Ryuji is the only one that somewhat breaks this because he feels like he at least works well with both Ann and Makoto while everyone else just has one other person they have chemistry with (Futaba and Yusuke, Haru and Morgana, Yoshizawa and Joker). Then in Tactica it felt more like Haru and Makoto were friends rather than acquaintances.
Honestly the only real connection i get with the phantom thrives are between Ann yusuke and ryuji. I agree with you on S.E.E.S having the most connections. It always bugged me when people said that they weren’t friends and just sorta co workers cuz that’s not true because the whole game is from how they go from having a work relationship to being good friends lmao. P3 is my favourite lol
In royal the phantom thieves really dont feel like a friendgroup that would go to war for each other, not like p4, and they dont have that many conversations but imo p5 strikers changes it all, the dynamics in there are great, especially haru gwts to have so much fun and its so nice how they feel like a great friendgroup in their summer trip.
I think in Royal it would have helped if you only got the Phantom Thieves you ranked 10 before the normal final boss back in your party for the true final dungeon/boss and fight the ones you didnt, it would have actually tested their bonds of friendships in a more meaningful way. and even as a fallback youd still have default 4 characters for a full party too.
I can KIND OF see what you mean with the last entry on Persona 5. Personally though, I love and adore the Phantom Thieves, and will continue to love and adore them
@@JButterZJ Real. I think Ann has her issues (to be fair, everyone in the entire series has issues) BUT I'd say like 75% of the time I'm willing to look past those. But Makoto's issues aren't very glaring...at least compared to some other members of the cast
Sylvando in Dragon Quest 11 is a great character. His estranged relationship with his father, the formal knight training and values he also has from his father are interesting, and his ability to keep his positive and peppy attitude in the face of what happens to the world in the 2nd act of the game is commendable... But in battle? Next to Jade, a badass with both spears and kicks, or Erik, the thief who's eventually able to get guaranteed crits? Or even Rab, who doesn't specialize in magic or physical combat, but does decent at both (and has a few spells the dedicated mages don't)? I wouldn't call him deadweight in a fight, but every other party member has a role they easily slot into. The other example I can think of is Farmers in Etrian Odyssey 3, but the game flat-out tells you not to put a farmer in the party for combat. That's not what their focus is... but they *do* have the best chances at landing debufss and binds on enemies.
Oh yeah, I recall I always struggled to give Sylvando a dedicated role, I thiiink I made him support most of the time? But damn, he's such a great character I didn't even consider putting him on the list, he's so good
Adding another comment to help boost your Video Metrics but Nevan from Dragon Quest 6. By the time you get Nevan you already have Hero, Carver and Millie who are all interconnected and contribute to the plot and Ashlynn who is mysterious but clearly important. You have a solid Fighter, Monk, All rounder, Mage combo with them too so theres never really a need to switch them out for Nevan. then the game drops Nevan into the party who has no involvement with the plot or cast. If the game didnt force you to use him for a dungeon chances are youd likely never use him at all because once again he has no involvement and dosent matter. Nevan is a dedicated Healer but guess what the dungeon after you get him you unlock classes so anyone can become a dedicated healer. hes likely from that point on to become a dedicated healbot for dungeons not participating in combat and only healing from the wagon. You may even forget hes there. You even get Terry later a 6th party member but hes actually relevant to the plot and cast too. Nevan isnt bad as much as he dosent really exist, hes like a 5th wheel, another cook in the kitchen. hes the dude that when you look back at highschool pics go "damn he existed?".
Eri basically ceasing to exist within Y7's story after the business management minigame was a real missed opportunity to flesh out the character more imo. Wouldn't necessarily be "the worst", but it definitely felt underwhelming that she was never acknowledged in any of the story cutscenes. I don't agree with your take on the Phantom Thieves, but it always depends on your stage in real life during which you play where you can relate yourself to the group more. And Makoto Niijima is my waifu. With numbers out of the way, nearly the entire cast of Fire Emblem Engage is absolutely unbearable, because every character is just a glorified walking one dimensional trope all of which worship the protagonist way too much.
I get what you mean with the Phantom Thieves. I have sunk around 1000 hours into base P5 and Royal together, and I regret nothing. I love the group with all my heart and P5 is probably a top 5 game I've ever played. Though now that I'm playing Persona 3 Reload I can actually see how mediocre the dinamic and interactions between the Phantom Thieves are. It also took me until now to realise that I don't like half of the playable cast. And then we look to P3R again where that is in no way the case. I absolutely adore and love everyone in S.E.E.S. They just feel so much more alive than the Phantom Thieves
The problem is that the persona 3 cast just effortlessly mogs every other persona cast because they are so good, and pretty much any jrpg cast in terms of synergy
Yeah and their arcana’s actually fit. Mitsuru-empress-motherly figure and femininity Akihiko-emperor and father figure of S.E.E.S. Shinji-heirophant-a role model for S.E.E.S. junpei-magician-his potential with his persona and Chidori Yukari-lovers-emotional attachment and feelings Fuuka-priestess-showing how instead of trying to fit in she’s true to herself Ken-justice(I think)-wanting justice for his mum Aigis-chariot-her chosen path to protect makoto Koromoru-strength(I think)-His strength to actually beat shadows and to move from the priest. Makoto-fool-his ‘journey’ and then for aigis ‘the answer’ Honestly I can’t see yusuke being the father of the phantom thieves
@@ItsPapayaI think you’re thinking too hard with the arcanas because Makoto is very clearly the “mother” of the phantom thieves yet they have her Priestess instead and Haru is Empress, I’m sure there is a meaning to it but most definitely not a family
Been awhile since I've seen one of your videos, Mr. Romo. The Shelfinator. I like seeing your like count, your view count steadily increasing. From the single digits to the double. Double to triple. One day, triple to quadruple. So on. So forth. I love to see you being successful with what you enjoy, what you're passionate about. You've come a long way and I believe you'll keep going even further. I look forward to your continued success. I'm proud to see, as a friend, from when you started as a no name content creator to where you are today. Keep up the fantastic work 😊
Concerning Penelo, i really do understand your opinion ^^ Despite i did love her (+...i completed her skill, including Burst and FR in DFFOO + bought 2 alt outfit for her
Futaba has a sibling dynamic with both Yusuke and Joker. Ann hated Makoto for calling her out on her lack of action towards Shiho, and then they became friends over them acknowledging day were the only girls on the team at the time Yusuke and Ryuji had an odd couple dynamic and always hung out Ann and Ryuji had a bickering, yet close friendship, with her having a 'cool girl' like personality around him. Morgana was close to Haru that was a result of his contentious relationship with Ryuji. Morgana was in love with Ann. Akechi and Makoto had a passive aggressive yet intense rivalry Akechi actively went out of his way to avoid the Phantom thieves aside from Joker because he felt like they were potential casualties in his plans. Haru looked up to Makoto due to her action contrasting with Haru's passivity, and you get the sense they spent time with each other outside their group Morgana literally had to reassess his dynamic with the group due to Makoto and Futaba having skills and a better understanding of the metaverse. Futaba treated him like a pet at times. Yusuke actively contributed to Makoto's assessment of events And most importantly of all all of the party members filled a heist role, Ocean's 11 style, which was the point of them being there. I'd say this game did a phenomenal job relaying to the player their roles.
I still like Phantom Thieves a lot ( hell Makoto and Futaba are still in my top 10 favorite persona characters after all these years) but I do agree that they are the weakest team when compared to SEES or the Investigation Team. It’s weird. The persona games I’d argue are best experienced when you are in your teenage years since a lot of topics especially resonate with the age group. But while P3 and P4 are games that you can still appreciate ( and in some ways become better) as you get older, I can’t really say the same for P5. It was aimed at teenagers and only teenagers.
Honestly same. Despite Persona 5 being more better graphically and gameplay, I honestly still prefer Persona 4 just because it feels like you’re actually making friends with your team rather than Persona 5 which just kinda feels forced with the phantom thieves
It's a bad take. I can get not liking Morgana and maybe a few Phantom Thieves, but to out them as a whole in a list of worst JRPGs teammates? Hell nah. Either bad taste or he hasn't played many JRPGs.
@@abysmalreign2207 I agree with you the man has absolutely terrible takes. Like if he’s this negative about Persona 5 for no reason then I can only imagine if he played something like YIIK
To be honest, I do agree that the phantom thieves are pretty boring. Each of them gets one day in the spotlight and vanishes forever after. Also I think it’s pretty strange that they get sequel games where they needed to deal with extra villains even though they apparently made the world a better place in the original…
Even though I love this character to pieces, I'd have to say Therion from Octopath 1. I like edgy characters so I will just gravitate towards him, but in terms of story, he holds little to no story depth in the story past "me want wristband off" and "me help cuz she trust me". They handled his betrayal so awfully, since we just don't get enough screentime of Darius and Therion's relationship to see the impact of it. Even past that, his character conflicts the idea of "staying in a party", so being with the rest of the cast doesnt make sense half of the game. Also considering we get little to no connection between him and the party (less his fault and more the fault of the game), he feels so forced in just because he's a main character. He's also, IMO atleast, one of the worst party members battle wise. The thief class has some pretty mid skills (besides SP Thief and MAYBE armor corrosive), and the fact that hes locked to it means that he doesnt have many synergies. Add onto the fact he's, for the most part (past evasion and speed) a jack of all trades, he has literally no good pairing besides hunter, which even then he doesnt do that well since after you Leghold trap, he has nothing to do past maybe going for breaks. Also pair with the fact that the passives hes locked to early game just makes him slow in terms of progression. While you could make him really good, youre taking a lot of investment from other party members, like using stat nuts on him instead of physical on Olberic. OH BUT IT GETS MUCH WORSE. Once you unlock the runelord class, Therion's evasion comes next to pointless, since Tressa can just Sidestep buff the whole team, and even so his evasion will still lead to him getting hit half the time anyway since enemies in the first game had high amounts of accuracy. Couple that with his really bad HP pool, he can't even be a good dodge tank. Even the Leghold trap strat i mentioned doesnt matter since any character can use it and Leghold trap doesnt take effect until the next turn, so there is no point in outspeeding the enemy. So in truth he has literally no niches where he's the best at, as literally everyone else could do what he does but better.
Hey, I actually agree with you on Persona 5's cast.When it comes to character relations there are plenty... between Morgana, Ryuji and Ann. But every character that joins after the first chapter just sort of exists. Also I found Morgana, Ryuji and Ann to be very annoying.
>Says the Phantom Thieves aren't that interesting compared to the other Persona's main casts >The video gets a ton of dislikes from P5 fans >The video gets way more views than the estimated Common Game Shelf W
Idk what he is going on about with the last entry, but they aren't awful. My complaint would be that the characters are kinda anime cookie cutter to a certain extent, but there are way way worst characters like that. Literally 90% of anime games have generic anime characters. And usually do the cliche " with the power of friendship, we can do anything". lol
The stalker class in Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is significantly worse than sharla. Sharla can heal very well, the Stalker can't do anything well. Also maybe Nicol and Shulk in Future Redeemed could be considered bad too. They can't hold agro to save Rex's life. Although that is more attributed to Rex being busted out the ass then Shulk and Nicol being bad
Nikol can be busted in his own way. He can be practically immortal and the "last line of defense" in hard fights if you give him the memory locket to revive other party members. Enel would have a very good video guide detailing that strategy. I ended up using that same strategy myself because of how ridiculous he is at staying alive.
After playing through most of Persona 3 Reload I can safely say they are better group of character then the other persona games just in their interactions and story.
While Persona 3 is great, the SEEs group have some of the worst development as they're not really friends as much as they operate as co workers. I haven't played Reload yet though, so maybe they added some more group dynamics and events. The Persona 4 group is by far the best group of friends of the modern Persona games. But it makes sense because they took what worked with 3 and doubled down on it for 4 while removing the stuff that didn't work.
@@abysmalreign2207I'm about at 10/6 in Reload, and I'd say they're about the same level of friendship as the Thieves, Mitsuru at this point only really talks to a few of them and they keep to themselves outside the 2nd Years. That being said, the game doesn't really have like...the MCU humor that 5 has so to me they don't reach the lows the Thieves go to. They're pleasant co-workers. The Thieves stop feeling like a friend group when Haru joins.
Roy is meant to be a subversion of the typical overpowered destinated for greatness hero (like Alm or Sigurd for exemple), unlike those ones he is not that special (not even the heir of the biggest domain of his land) and don't have any special power (he ends up mastering the Binding Blade because he was the one holding the Fire Emblem) but tanks to his leader abilities and his inteligence he happens to be leading the army that end up saving the world. He is weak in battle (it even complexe him according to supports) but he is great to make people around him better versions of themself, this is why in gameplay he has the best support affinity : fire, with his supports he can make other units really powerful (it litteraly turns Shanna into a beast in the battlefield), unfortunatly you may waste it on Lilina...
Is he wrong though? They stagnante so hard after their Single-Palace long arcs, and don't feel like friends; they feel like Joker's fanclub. After playing P3R and then going back to P5R I really felt how barebones the PT are and how little agency they have, especially after their singular arc. They don't even compare To SEES
The amount of times I felt annoyed when nobody is beating some sense to Ryuji when he's acting up really made me realize what p5 is missing. Yu and Yosuke made a deal with each other where they would talk/beat some senses with each other when one of them acts up, which actually happened when Nanako died. Minato is pretty much the most unhinged between the three MC so he would do the same with Junpei. But nothing like that happened with Ryuji. Joker doesn't even say anything back in Morgana runaway arc.
Haven't finished the video yet but I would bet money that no one from Like a Dragon or Infinite Wealth is on it because Yakuza party members don't fucking disappoint
Honestly I like the Phantom Thieves and enjoy how they band together and relate to eachother through shared Trauma. I like how not only are there alot of fun scenes with them but I think the messenger moments do alot of good quick back and forth character and team building moments. I really dont get the sentiment that they dont feel like a friend group at all Minus Morgana (fuck Morgana). I also think Haru feels better in Royal due to the extra dungeon giving her more party time and Strikers gives her alot of love as well.
I think that if haru joined with makoto (they could’ve been friends beforehand and run into the same situation together as both are pressured by adults) I think she would’ve been more appreciated and then make her more interesting as she’s forced into a political marriage right after futaba’s palace. I don’t think it would take anything away from makoto (as she’s still very important all the way up to sae’s palace) while giving haru more depth and time to develop
Kimahri can be a total beast. If you know how to. There's a trick where you can teach him Holy early in the game, and he kicks ass with it. I didn't know about that trick, but I built him as a mage, and he did pretty well (it took some time though). Not to mention he can reach the Ultima spell by midgame (if you plan for it). Which makes it super easy to pass on that spell to Lulu and Yuna (Yuna goes from a harmless white mage to an instrument of DEATH with that spell).
I kinda see the angle of the Phantom Thieves take, but I think that through the many interactions they still have that are focused around the story, as well as their social links, they still get a good amount of personality. Their chemistry just works on a more group based level rather than being directly interpersonal. I also found Royal to fill in many of the gaps in their characterization, through the improved relevance of Akechi as well as anything regarding the Royal exclusive plot. Finally, in terms of gameplay, every character has their role and you will probably use them all depending on the situation. I definitely think that SEES blow them out of the water in terms of pretty mich everything, but the Investigation Team? I would actually make a point for them being the worst party in any JRPG I ever played. Yeah, they have chemistry, but that chemistry is often times boring at best and downright disgusting at worst. Yosuke's relation to pretty much any character is terrible. He harrasses the girls and is super toxic towards Kanji. His only redeeming qualities lie in his Social Link and involvement in the actual plot, but since P4 consists mostly of slice of life comedy, we mostly see his worst parts. Chie and Yukiko are fine, but after their dungeon arc they never really get any interesting interaction again. I honestly forgot they were best friends at some point. Chie is also reduced to comic relief often times and her best moments are when she is the only person in the group to call out Yosuke's shitty behavior. Yukiko is fine, good Social Link and fun enough in the story. I hate Rise, everyone does, she is annoying and her Social Link cannot fix that. Teddie is the worst. That is all. I cannot think of any redeeming qualities and the fact that people even consider putting Morgana in the spot for worst Persona mascot character when Teddie exists baffles me. Kanji is great but sadly is shafted as the butt of every joke after his arc. The man is constantly made fun of by his friends for the very thing that his storyline was about. Naoto has zero personality in most dialogues besides being the exposition whore. And gameplay wise, they are also not great. Every character has a very fixed role that they can never break out of. In P3 and P5, there are much better customization options and it's more valuable for a character to be able to do a little bit of everything. In P4, the best characters are the ones that are the best at one thing they do. Yukiko is the best mage, Kanji is the best physical attacker, Teddie is the best support, everyone else has redeeming qualities but can't really surpass the obvious picks. Nothing makes that more clear than Naoto, the character with the most variety in her moveset, being the forst character to fall off aside from her one endgame party buff. Since you can't switch up your team while exploring and also don't return to the entrance as frequently, you don't adjust your elements as well (you have Yu for that anyway) and just go with the party that will on average be the most effective in most situations. In P3 and P5, I trained and played every character until the end, but in 4 I stuck with pretty much the same party for the entire mid- to endgame. I don't want to say that critizising the Phantom Thieves is wrong, they have plenty of weaknesses. And I also don't mean to say that P4 has the worst cast ever, because I'm sure there are games with much worse casts out there. But I really like the Phantom Thieves personally. And I really don't like the Investigation Team. So yeah, I felt that I needed to get that off my chest after this haha
I don't think y'all understand how BADLY the GS shelf hates Morgana. When he says frame 1, he MEANS frame 1 to the point that the server itself imposed a hard mode of "No Morgana." Fuck you Morgana. That being said, I'm gonna echo what i said before which is: Jeff in Earthbound has gotta be such a weak character, both story and gameplay wise. Story wise, he only has two mentionable moments, one at his introduction at the school and the second is when meeting Dr.Andonuts. After that, he kinds becomes a nothing sandwich. Gameplay wise, he becomes wholly unuseful bordering on a hindrance with how frail he is while also dealing no damage in comparison to the main 3 PK users. His spy ability is useless as hell in most situations because whatever item the enemy holds, we can just get after beating them Bottle Rockets are useful, sure, but like that's the only ability that's unique to him but is still outclassed by like any other PK ability and ESPECIALLY when Poo gets PK Starstorm. Other than that I feel like he brings nothing in my experiences replaying Earthbound.
I have to hard disagree with Persona 5's cast here, coming from the perspective of someone who has played Royal and Strikers but not Tactica. Makoto acts sort of like a motherly figure to Futaba in her arc and story scenes of the game, she is portrayed as a caring person who cannot show weakness due to the high standards of her sister Sae, whom she cares about. Futaba also has an interesting relationship with Yusuke as they both have friendly banter between eachother, for example when Yusuke messes up Futaba's expensive figurines in the effort to make something more artistic to his liking and Futaba criticises his aesthetic eye. Ann is done a hard disrespect after Kamoshida's arc and that is undeniable, but in her social link she's seen having a lot of emotional difficulties going through Shiho's recovery and her naivity in the modeling and fashion industry, pissing off professionals with her natural talent and as I said, her naivity, barely knowing about the world of fashion and modeling apart from shopping and looking pretty for the camera, she forms an interesting bond with the girls that results in saying things in the style of: "Ahhhh... Men." Which makes them feel secure with a struggling but still determined partner by their side. This is part of Royal but a MAJOR upgrade is done to the bond between Akechi, the protagonist and the new character, Kasumi Yoshizawa, forming the known Royal Trio, they share a bond seen throughout the game in some extra scenes added to the game and them being the focus of the Third Semester in Royal, apart from bringing another new character, Takuto Maruki to the mix. Haru was denied screentime and growth because... *Ahem* Morgana, but in her social link you can see what her arc did not let us fully see, how her family is incredibly wealthy and how power was just tossed around constantly, other family members wanted the company for themselves, seeing what all of that entailed for her and her family, etc. But she did not brag about it at all, she wanted to be seen as a normal, optimistic, somewhat secretly sadistic and passionate who just so happened to be wealthy, she also has to deal with inheriting her father's company while still being in highschool and thinking about what the future could have for her and how she wants to separate her own image from her father and the company. She finds solace in the produce she grows and eventually separates herself from the company, in hopes of opening a café, which is her dream. Ironically, she has the best relationship with Morgana, as she likes tending to his needs and cares for him more than any other Phantom Thief as they met after Sugimura kicked Morgana to the wall. They're very good friends and it shows Haru's love and care for all of the group but especially Morgana, as they also think of different shenanigans together (As seen in her Showtime Attack (A Royal mechanic) with Morgana). She also develops a relationship with Makoto where they give strength to one-another in their ways and see themselves as not being alone in taking care of the group sometimes, having a killer Showtime Attack with her to prove their common fighting strength and also having an arc dedicated to her in Strikers, which I wholeheartedly recommend checking out. Ryuji has a brighter bond with the boys, and while The Shido Incident™is absolutely horrendous, it is sadly, a part of Japanese humour, a cultural difference that strikes a lot in the west. That does not justify it though. Going back on topic, his bond shines with the boys and especially the protagonist and Yusuke, hanging out together constantly and laughing between eachother, it feels as if they'd known eachother throughout their whole lives and gives a comforting feel to the relationship. And the protagonist has a sibling-like bond with Futaba, seeing as how they live together and how they treat eachother and how Futaba can trust him more than anyone (Besides Sojiro) to help her come out of her shell and leave her unhealthy hikikomori life style, even promising she wants to go back to school. The abuse she suffered while she jumped from family member to family member greatly affected her, to the point where her uncle would not feed her or let her clean herself while he berated her while drunk and spending his money on gambling. Futaba's trauma has so many family implications and her abuse affected her so much that she locked herself in to the point even Sojiro couldn't convince her to come out, and it was thanks to the Phantom Thieves that she was able to establish a familial bond with Sojiro, the protagonist and even in part with Makoto, and real friendships in the rest of the group. Wow! That was a handful! Sorry for such a long comment and I hope you don't take this as me trying to change your mind in any way, this is just my opinion and perspective after playing OG, Royal and Strikers :). Amazing video like always!!
There's also the Hawaii trip that does a lot of leg work regarding intrapersonal relationships. Ryuji, while surprised to see him, didn't hesitate to defer to Yusuke for his agreement regarding his excitement. Ryuji is also the first to realize Yusukes' connection to storms, implying he's observed the phenomenon on more than just the occasions we were a party to. All present party members buy gifts for Futaba and Morgana and, specifically, Joker, Ann, and Makoto fit it into their plans for the trip. Thinking of and being conscientious of those apart from them denotes a level of closeness amongst the group. During that time, Futaba pushes Morgana to be more introspective and consider the possibility that he may not be what he believes himself to be and relating his struggle to her own, but also gracious enough to not continue pushing the subject when he affirms himself and cedes that he may very well be correct, but makes it clear she's very willing to listen and be there for him. Ann luckily has the hotel room scene. Locked out of her room, she is adamant about staying with the guys. With zero apprehension, she's putting her trust in Joker, Ryuji, and Mishima, which marks an important level of growth and healing coming off a couple of months past the Kamoshida incident. Despite being forced into a position that she could be taken advantage of, she's found men in her life who she trusts implicitly enough to be vulnerable and knows with a 100% certainty she is safe with. The original trio having a night to reminisce is also a nice midpoint to cap off how far the three of them have come and taking the time to get to know each other better and investing in their romantic interest.
Roy is my favorite character in all of Fire Emblem, and as a unit, I'd say he's an average unit throughout most of the game. I can see why people think he's a bad unit, but if I ask me, if he was playable in FE7, he probably would be a bad unit because that game just straight up HATES swords and he won't get to use the Binding Blade. If anyone were to ask me who the worst unit in FE6, I would say Sophia. She joins around the middle of the game with the lowest base stat total in the entire game and will be outclassed by Raigh & Niime. And Raigh's not even that good of a unit either (which might make you happy because I remember in one of your videos you personally hated Raigh.) Still, good video btw. :) Edit: When I played Binding Blade, I gotta say that Roy still managed to be pretty useful in my playthrough. But that most likely be because of his Fire Affinity, and that thing is just busted, especially when you support him with the more powerful characters such as Lance & Alen.
Who wants to bet that the friend group in Persona 5 would have been improved drastically without Morgana? The guy who constantly antagonists one of you, objectifies and simps over the other, constantly inserts himself into everyone's interactions bc he will die if he doesn't feel important for 5 seconds.... AND not to mention, overrides every interaction with the world you as the player have. I bet you would grow so much stronger friendships without that pain in the ass constantly keeping things awkward
Yeah, ever since I played P5, i had the feeling it was overrated and that something was amiss among the party. Thanks for having put into words what I had tried to think about but didn't find the right words to express.
Honestly I feel the Phantom Thieves are a great group with a good dynamic… until Makoto joins and messes up the entire groups dynamic and it never really recovers. Makoto’s problem is she’s too good. She is better than everyone else at their roles and everyone just praises her for simply existing. After she joins Ann basically ceases to exist and Ryuji becomes stupider and the butt of every joke. The rest of the party members aren’t much better with Futaba being waifubait, Haru not really doing anything, and Akechi being temporary
Fire emblem top is probably Amelia and ewan. She's so bad even early game she'd be a task to raise same as him. Paper Mario probably miss mouse. Getting her isn't worth it. Ff it's hard to say. So many useless party members Tales of the abyss. Anise. The princess guide. All the bought for units. Waste of money
@@TheGameShelf i get some use out of them but never the mouse. She just exists as a bonus. Hopefully the remaster adds more to the partners and makes the ms mouse mission happen early or sooner.
Luke is the worst in Tales of the Abyss. Guy is better all around with Cresent Strike being a great gaurd break and center allowing him to heal himself combined with how broken free run is with how fast Guy is...and even if you do want both in your party the AI for melee is terrible and if you're playing multiplayer Luke's attacks tend to have knockback ruining your combos. Anise as a mage is great for synergy. Her having access to only Light and Dark elements and nit having to multitask the healer role like Tear means she's causing the most FOF changes. Anise makes Tear and Jade even better party members. Tear having access to multiheal spells and Guy being able to generate wind FoFs on a dime leading Healing Circle to being Fairy Circle makes Natalia redundant. How is Anise the worst in the game exactly?
@@Chelaxim wow you try to defend anise by bringing up everyone else. Luke is not bad you just sound like you don't know how to play. My Luke can juggle a foe while the ai get their spells ready to finish them off and that's on the hardest difficulty. Anise has no use and she can get stuck when playing offense and why would I use her when tear Natalia and jade exist? Faulty logic there as anise is never used by anyone and her only one use is the arena data logs. She's clunky Yes anise is bad. Use half of your own argument to see that even as you just explain how the other three are better in general. Guy is very bad as he causes a lot of super armor situations and speed isn't much when you don't so much damage. Wish abyss made a joke about the bad units like graces as anise would definitely be the one made fun of. Not responding again. Anise sucks period
I don't know if you're reasoning for Persona 5 is that solid. Lots of JRPG characters never interact. Remember that time Lulu and Auron spoke to each other? No? Because it never happened. Remember that one time in The Office when Stanely and Meredith spoke to each other? Wait that never happened either? Well in the first Star Wars movie Luke and Vader have to speak right? Nope.Maggie and Glenn from The Walking Dead. Lucille only says one sentace at Tobias for the whole of Aressted Development. Walt Jr and Jesse from Breaking Bad. Randy and Cartman from South Park. Friends was on for a decade and how many times did Chandler and Pheobe ever interact? Tons of people in King of The Hill most notably a missed opportunity with Boomhauer and John Redcorn. And dont get me started on Game of Thrones and The Wire. Half the cast is unawre of the existence of the other half.
I agree, plus there are dynamics being ignored, such as Futaba and Yusuke. Futaba and Ryuji. Ryuji and Ann. Makoto and Ann. Ryuji and Makoto. Haru and Morgana. And so on, there are multiple scenes for all of these character pairings. Even if you feel like the dynamics are weak or uninteresting they are still established. The phantom theives aren’t perfect but they are a victim of popular = bad mentality. The video creator said he liked them when playing the game. That’s where it matters. Furthermore he shows the octopath traveler cast afterwards as a better cast. I love Octopath Traveler but the characters have absolutely no interactions with eachother.
Before I go on a rant about Persona 5’s cast, lemme explain that Sharla is FAR worse than you brought up. Most of her arts prior to the late game are all almost healing, break, or support. Most of the combat relies on chain attacks for bosses. The way these work is based on affinity and the move type, which is determined by its color. Most every other party member is going to have plenty of red arts, which are physical. Sharla has nearly all blue, which is ether. If you break a chain of attacks during a round, you risk ending it early. This, combined with the fact you probably won’t be using Sharla much after Dunban joins (literally any agility up gem is going to help make him impossible to hit, negating healing), means that even with the art situation, the affinity with her in the party is going to be bad. Xenoblade 1 is a game where healing is about as pointless as it can get. You take more damage than you can heal comfortably. Anyway. Persona. SEES is the most human cast in the modern trilogy and home to my favorite JRPG characters ever (Aigis mainly), and the Investigation Team is the most 2000s anime squad I’ve ever seen. I love them both, but as someone who started with Persona 5, I always felt the cast of that game was a bit weak. Ryuji felt like Yosuke but always swearing (yet still the most interesting party member in the base game, I 100% agree with you there), Ann was just a character that lost any character drive following Kamoshida, Morgana is just Teddie but instead a simp for one person, Yusuke is a bland Persona 3 Protag who can’t take criticism, Futaba is otaku bait, Haru is genuinely one of my favorites in the base game characters and that’s only cause she acts uncharacteristically sadistic yet there’s literally no time to appreciate her until every side game following, Akechi is only good after they fixed him in Royal, and Kasumi is my 2nd favorite character in the game besides Maruki. Notice how I left out a certain character with a protagonist’s name? I dislike Makoto so much. Her Confidant genuinely is my least favorite but not because of the content. If that were the case, I’d say the Moon Arcana in Persona 3 was. I dislike it so much because it wastes a character who could have genuinely been super interesting. They turn someone who was controlled by other people and pressured to do so much to get into a good university, into a character whose entire personality I forgot while typing this. I had to physically look up her confidant to remember what happened. I *think* she was jealous by an old friend so she asks you to be her fake boyfriend to get her friend to stop dating some guy? I’m sorry but there was more substance in Kenji’s SL in Persona 3 than this. At least there I wanna know what happens next. With Makoto I just don’t care. She feels super uninteresting as a character in my opinion. Compare her to someone like Yukari from Persona 3, a character I never expected to act as human as she does. She deals with past trauma realistically (to the extent the game shows), is a character with complex character traits, interacts with the party members well, and shows that she’s an integral member of the team. Every character in P4 interacts SO WELL with each other. They feel like a found family, and I can see the bond they share with each other. The members of SEES feel like colleagues, the Investigation Team feels like a family, but the Phantom Thieves just feel like a group in a group project with a circle of kinda close friends mixed with a couple of random people from the class. But in all fairness, regardless of how I feel, I get that people really love the cast of Persona 5. To them, they mean a lot. At the time I played, the same could be said for me. The game centers around rebellion, a topic many people can relate to in a rough time as it is today, hence the widespread reach the game had. I don’t necessarily think they are the absolute worst JRPG party ever (there has to be much worse out there), but they for sure aren’t the greatest
Yea your Makoto hate is kinda stupid here because clearly you didn’t even get her slink?? 😭 she wasn’t jealous of her friend?? She felt like the responsibility of being student council president was up to her and to get students outta of bad situations. So she helped a classmate get out of a toxic relationship?? Where in tf did you see jealousy anywhere in the slink??? You keep saying Makoto is uninteresting yet you don’t even get her character at all. She’s a character who’s sick of being told what to do and being called useless and she doesn’t rly make a change until the thieves get into her life, which is something I feel you all don’t realize. The thieves connect in the way as they are all outlasts rejected or rejecting by society, it isn’t until the Phantom Thieves get into their lives where they actually start to be them selves and connect with each other 🤦♂️ if you’re gonna hate on the game at least try to understand it
@@smokedsanjlthat's a lot of defense for character which in all fairness you can say you like but that's barely the point OP makes, the point is that the ENTIRE cast is weak.
you can change your jobs in final fantasy xii, you do it inside the centurio hunt clan iirc. i'd push back a little bit on kimahri, he has a ton of utility if you use his sphere grid. easy strat is to give him rikku's sphere grid up to steal so he can move fast and instant kill machina like rikku can and then just throw him on lulu's sphere grid for the extra elemental damage as needed. i'm sure some would say that by endgame it's pointless to use him but you can say that about every party member in that game besides tidus, rikku, and wakka. his overdrive sucks but the blue mage abilities aren't really what ya use him for
I think the biggest annoyance with the pt for me is how social links are for them basically holding them back from having a character arc in the story biggest example being futaba where in her link she is super introverted meanwhile in the story she is super energetic
Persona 5's group isn't a bunch of Friends. The whole premise of the game is that it's business which you make deals with individuals. What they bring to the table is purely function to the business and not the group as a friends. which makes them interacting in outside situations all that more awkward between them and the only time I was convinced that they might be more than Business partners was the ending to Persona 5, then Royal came along and returned to form.
I think at the very least that the connections that you the player make with the Phantom Thieves lead to them being interesting enough characters (except Morgana). While their interactions with other characters are mostly lacking, I do think that through their confidants you get to learn a lot more about the characters and what makes them tick
Honestly I can't think of any terrible party members in RPGs, maybe Makalov from PoR and RD. Btw are you going to make a video about the best party members in RPGs?
I LOVE the Thieves and some of them are a couple of my favorite characters in Persona, but they have problems for sure. As a group they kinda suck when some of them never talk with half a group. The characters themselves I like, but they don't function as a group in P5/P5R. Strikers does improve on this, but it still isn't perfect. The thing that hits me most though is how Sumi in Royal NEVER interacts with any of the Thieves beyond Joker and Akechi. I love the Royal trio to pieces, Akechi is infinitely better after he breaks the mirage and Sumi is still my favorite Persona character even over a year after starting P5R and playing the rest of the modern trilogy, but they're SO isolated from the rest of the Thieves. Akechi gets some good interactions with Haru and Futaba (mainly in Mementos but still), but that's about it. Sumi doesn't even get that. Imagine what it'd be like if she jumped in on one of Ryuji's training sessions or, as much as I might dislike Makoto, if Sumi and Makoto had a mini-arc relating to how they're both expected to be the perfect students but can't. There's so much potential there, but she doesn't get any of it, probably because as good as the Royal semester is it's only 15 to 20 hours and they need to split the time evenly between Akechi, Sumi and the antagonist. And that's for two characters that I adore, before talking about characters that are undercooked (COUGH COUGH Haru was robbed, at least she got more in Strikers because man she's great) or characters I straight up dislike. In the end I still like the Thieves as individuals, there are still some good dynamics as well like Ryuji and Ann being either wonderful siblings or a surprisingly decent couple depending on your perspective, and I'll always have a soft spot for them and P5 as a whole since it was my first Persona, but none of it is perfect. No Persona game is perfect. My favorite game ever is Persona 4 and I will avidly defend some of its more questionable aspects, but it isn't perfect by any means. Same goes for P5, though the Royal semester is my favorite piece of content in all of Persona, by the time I finish P3R I imagine that P5 will be my least favorite of the modern games. But hey, I like these games, and I won't let anyone stop me from liking all three of them even though fan consensus would tell you P3 is the only good one and media consensus tells you P5 is the only one that exists. Also in all fairness to calling out Rise like that before going into P5, she's possibly the most busted navigator in the series and has only recently gotten a run for her money with Fuuka in P3 Reload so she's gotta get some credit for that at least! anyway thanks for coming to my tedtalk-
@eleonorepb4565 honestly it could be either of them I picked bantu over Sophia as Sophia can have some use with ranged attacks and staff utility upon promotion
Damn no Akira live a live mention :( He’s like super weak on the original game and he’s a main character which means you have to play as him (for at least one chapter)
Morgana is good or at least much better in p5r, and is a case of "just use some effort and the member will become far better, but not in their debut game"
Your comment section always takes your very fair, subjective, perspective so personally 😭😭. Loved the video and I RESPECT your opinion. Also you look gorgeous as always 🙊
Yeah i agree with the phantom thieves take. They all use ryuji as a punching bag for no reason and are all loosely tied together because of circumstance. They do become more likeable in their spin off titles but certain unlikable traits remain and it feels like they dont mature at times
The persona take was kinda sus tbh. And complaining about how the thieves mistreat ryuji right after talking about SEES and forgetting or willfully omitting that Junpei has the exact same role as ryuji within the group was cringe as hell. What is cool about the phantom thieves is that normally they wouldn’t ever get the chance to meet each other, but due to their circumstances they were able to find solace within each other, and a purpose to fight even though they were wronged. I think the dynamics are pretty straight forward within the team, I get that it’s your opinion but it makes me wonder if we even played the same game lol.
I really don't like the phantom thieves too much either. I found them all bland and irritating, except for yusuke he gets a pass and ryuji's my boy. I played through persona 5 royal and saw the 3rd semester. All the phantom thieves get some development in the 3rd semester but they're not the main focus there. I heard they get some fleshing out in persona 5 strikers but I haven't played it yet so I can't say anything about that. But I did play tactica, and they deadass just focus on the new characters. When you get to the 3rd boss of the game, it's revealed as to why the phantom thieves are even there other than for money.
Now I already know how Ann was mostly forgotten and ruined by marketing to be a fanservice character. Tharja from Fire Enblem was like Ann but darker and ruined by marketing.
its kind of sad that i feel the phantom thieves have more of a dynamic in STRIKERS than the original game, like I love the characters (except morgana) when developing their social links, but main story wise they really don't have much chemistry with each other and its a shame because they COULD, but atlus just did a terrible job writing them. all the ryuji abuse really pissed me off too like I hated the 'abuse character when they did nothing wrong' trope before this, but god p5 really does it the worst. But as I said earlier, I genuinely think they have great interactions in strikers, and to another extent the dancing game where they're able to TALK to each other, and we can see how much they care for one another, rather than in p5 where they all feel just so... boring when they're together. (edit); i highly recommend playing royal and strikers, they both definitely fleshed out the characters more, and royal is just a way better experience than og p5. i totally understand the burnout though bc god its kind of like three houses the amount of nonstop praise and dickriding persona 5 gets.)
Oh boy Sharla is the worst unit in Xenoblade. You can play as her and use her like I did. Hell I happen to beat the game twice with her in my party. I will say this her unluckiness of getting over shadowed by Riki and Melia is her weakness. Also I use Melia on some fights. And Riki was always in my party for the healing.
Yusuke and Futaba annoy eachother, even she call her Inari. Haru has her creepy funny moments, her awful driving and money. Makoto is the voice of reason but also the most cariño of the group Ryuji is the best boy, but yeah the bully him unnecesarily. Morgana is annoying especially when he is simping for ann, but Its waaaay more toretable than Teddy. Ann, yeah she becomes fanscervice and doesnt apports something. Akechi is the best character since Royal.
Dude I wish Boney from Mother 3 was on this list lmao. sure he gives some extra damage, but he’s only useful for like one turn and story wise he is literally just a dog
Anyone who has played the entire legend of heroes franchise is likely to say Josette in sky the third. She's so notoriously bad that the meta of using her is to specifically bench her for her party support passive.
So yea, ill be real with you, despite my hatred towards P5, ive never played it, but i had my reasons. Even from not touching the game i just never felt like any of the characters seemed all that interesting, and whenever i did look into them they still were never interesting. Even when i had no access to play any of the other Personas and the only one that i could play and be my first game in the series was P5 i still never picked it up. I told myself i would get a Vita and P4 before i even touch P5, because ive always had interest playing P4 for the longest time becauseof old videos i watched back in Middle School. As time went on and being patient Atlus did end up rereleasing P4G and P3 (albeit Portable) i hopped and played P4G and P3P back to back and had a blast. Loved the atmosphere and most notably the characters. Even with Portable's limitations it is still a great version of P3, especially with Kotone as a character and despite Reload ditching her, i was still excited to replay P3 through Reload P5R on the other hand also got a multiplatform release, so even though i got bored of my PS4 in favor of my Series X, i still had a way to play P5R. Despite it released on Game Pass even before P4G and P3P, i still waited to play those games first, because i was that uninterested in P5R still. Even after my first time Persona binge, I STILL didn't want to play P5R. Petty reasons keep preventing me from even playing the game, "the characters are boring, the atmosphere sucks, Morganna, their outfits are dorky". If i ever wanted to play an ultra stylish modern JRPG set in Shibuya with fantastic characters i would just play both The World Ends With You games. At the end of the day i am a hater, i own P5R to eventually play it to see my hate is justified, but never have i had a game be so uninteresting to me despite all it's hype, that it truly prevents me from playing it. Hell im quicker to buy and play Splatoon games just to hate on them before playing P5R It doesn't matter how incredibly amazing P5R is in the Gameplay when everything else is mid
Persona 5 has 3 big issues that make it distinct from Persona 3 and 4. 1. The social links are more limited due to the plot of the game. This leads for less emotional social links. (Like Akinari or Naoto) and is created to add more “tension” into them. 2. Haru. The phantom thieves are sort of lacking in dynamics compared to other characters, but most of them, especially Ann and Makoto, have extremely good solo arcs. Then there is Haru. The dungeon you get her is the worst in the game, and before you fight the boss of the dungeon the character you unlock there is typically given a big moment to shine. This is not given to Haru at the end of her dungeon, but is given to Morgana. Haru continues to be a boring leach of a party member for the rest of the game. 3. Slightly based off my last point but you don’t really get to see characters before the arc they join your party with the only exception being Makoto. This was “fixed” in Royal by the characters appearing in the background of cutscenes randomly. (It doesn’t help) In persona 3 you can find characters like Ken or Koromaru long before they join your party. Persona 4 characters exist everywhere before they join your party. Persona 5 DOES have good writing and good characters but they don’t feel interconnected. It would almost be interesting if the story was handled more like LIVE a LIVE and had multiple individual stories that came together for the final chapter.
well i dont agree with all the phantom thieves being a bad party i will say they are worse then sees and the investigation team oh and i also agree with ryuji being better then the rest of the thieves but i find the others good for the most part just lacking compared to the previous two games
Not really,both yusuke and ryuji have elements of kanji. Ryuji is the bro character and his arcana is chariot but honestly it’s make more sense for it to be magician. I mean yusuke is the emperor arcana.
I 100% disagree with you opinon on the phantom theives. Remember all those times Morgana told you to go to bed? Such a nice kitty for reminding you how tired you are. And all the text messages to read so I can ignore my irl phone.... good times.
The phantom thieves connect because they’re all outcast ?? Neither of them had anybody before the thieves brought them in? I disagree with so many of your takes about P5 man holy fuck 😭💀
Roy may be trash in his game, but he's still our boy
He is our trash boy
I like the fact that SEES is a group that didn't really connect at first. They were just a group with a mission at first. There's some unspoken grudge some of the members have with each other which makes it nice when the group starts to open up with each other. Then we have the Investigation Team which has the average teen dynamic. Each member are well connected with each other, there are even events where you can encounter some of them hanging out even without the MC. You can really see that they are close with each other. And finally we have the Phantom Thieves, a group that is connected by the MC. You can even see how awkward they are with one another when they are suggesting their showtime. I haven't played Strikers so I don't know if their dynamic improved in that sequel.
Strikers doesn’t really get the group dynamic to improve. It’s still the same case of having pairs that interact with each other well and then feels like they barely know anyone else. Ryuji is the only one that somewhat breaks this because he feels like he at least works well with both Ann and Makoto while everyone else just has one other person they have chemistry with (Futaba and Yusuke, Haru and Morgana, Yoshizawa and Joker). Then in Tactica it felt more like Haru and Makoto were friends rather than acquaintances.
Honestly the only real connection i get with the phantom thrives are between Ann yusuke and ryuji.
I agree with you on S.E.E.S having the most connections. It always bugged me when people said that they weren’t friends and just sorta co workers cuz that’s not true because the whole game is from how they go from having a work relationship to being good friends lmao.
P3 is my favourite lol
In royal the phantom thieves really dont feel like a friendgroup that would go to war for each other, not like p4, and they dont have that many conversations but imo p5 strikers changes it all, the dynamics in there are great, especially haru gwts to have so much fun and its so nice how they feel like a great friendgroup in their summer trip.
I think in Royal it would have helped if you only got the Phantom Thieves you ranked 10 before the normal final boss back in your party for the true final dungeon/boss and fight the ones you didnt, it would have actually tested their bonds of friendships in a more meaningful way. and even as a fallback youd still have default 4 characters for a full party too.
Strikers and Tactica did them justice.
So serious question.
The phantom thieves mean a lot to me as characters and as a group.
Does that mean I suck?
None at all, if you love them I completely respect that and good thing you can make your own opinion despite what others might say
@@TheGameShelf Thanks,I respect your opinion too.
Unless you romanced Haru, You're totally sane.
@@UnknownGamer1805 I romanced hifumi
@@anxhelovucinaj1576 yes smart
I can KIND OF see what you mean with the last entry on Persona 5. Personally though, I love and adore the Phantom Thieves, and will continue to love and adore them
And that's great honestly, I'll not push people away for liking them in the slightless
@@TheGameShelf One thing I will give you though is Roy. Roy sucks ASS in Binding Blade, that entire segment was spot on
Makoto IS def Not worse than ann.
@@JButterZJ Real. I think Ann has her issues (to be fair, everyone in the entire series has issues) BUT I'd say like 75% of the time I'm willing to look past those. But Makoto's issues aren't very glaring...at least compared to some other members of the cast
There's so many bad JRPG party members that I can't take the whole Phantom Thieves group at #1 seriously
Sylvando in Dragon Quest 11 is a great character. His estranged relationship with his father, the formal knight training and values he also has from his father are interesting, and his ability to keep his positive and peppy attitude in the face of what happens to the world in the 2nd act of the game is commendable... But in battle? Next to Jade, a badass with both spears and kicks, or Erik, the thief who's eventually able to get guaranteed crits? Or even Rab, who doesn't specialize in magic or physical combat, but does decent at both (and has a few spells the dedicated mages don't)? I wouldn't call him deadweight in a fight, but every other party member has a role they easily slot into.
The other example I can think of is Farmers in Etrian Odyssey 3, but the game flat-out tells you not to put a farmer in the party for combat. That's not what their focus is... but they *do* have the best chances at landing debufss and binds on enemies.
Oh yeah, I recall I always struggled to give Sylvando a dedicated role, I thiiink I made him support most of the time?
But damn, he's such a great character I didn't even consider putting him on the list, he's so good
Adding another comment to help boost your Video Metrics but Nevan from Dragon Quest 6.
By the time you get Nevan you already have Hero, Carver and Millie who are all interconnected and contribute to the plot and Ashlynn who is mysterious but clearly important.
You have a solid Fighter, Monk, All rounder, Mage combo with them too so theres never really a need to switch them out for Nevan. then the game drops Nevan into the party who has no involvement with the plot or cast. If the game didnt force you to use him for a dungeon chances are youd likely never use him at all because once again he has no involvement and dosent matter.
Nevan is a dedicated Healer but guess what the dungeon after you get him you unlock classes so anyone can become a dedicated healer. hes likely from that point on to become a dedicated healbot for dungeons not participating in combat and only healing from the wagon. You may even forget hes there.
You even get Terry later a 6th party member but hes actually relevant to the plot and cast too.
Nevan isnt bad as much as he dosent really exist, hes like a 5th wheel, another cook in the kitchen. hes the dude that when you look back at highschool pics go "damn he existed?".
Eri basically ceasing to exist within Y7's story after the business management minigame was a real missed opportunity to flesh out the character more imo. Wouldn't necessarily be "the worst", but it definitely felt underwhelming that she was never acknowledged in any of the story cutscenes.
I don't agree with your take on the Phantom Thieves, but it always depends on your stage in real life during which you play where you can relate yourself to the group more. And Makoto Niijima is my waifu.
With numbers out of the way, nearly the entire cast of Fire Emblem Engage is absolutely unbearable, because every character is just a glorified walking one dimensional trope all of which worship the protagonist way too much.
Oh no! You pissed off all the Smash fans who never played an actual FE game!
I get what you mean with the Phantom Thieves. I have sunk around 1000 hours into base P5 and Royal together, and I regret nothing. I love the group with all my heart and P5 is probably a top 5 game I've ever played. Though now that I'm playing Persona 3 Reload I can actually see how mediocre the dinamic and interactions between the Phantom Thieves are. It also took me until now to realise that I don't like half of the playable cast. And then we look to P3R again where that is in no way the case. I absolutely adore and love everyone in S.E.E.S. They just feel so much more alive than the Phantom Thieves
The problem is that the persona 3 cast just effortlessly mogs every other persona cast because they are so good, and pretty much any jrpg cast in terms of synergy
Yeah and their arcana’s actually fit.
Mitsuru-empress-motherly figure and femininity
Akihiko-emperor and father figure of S.E.E.S.
Shinji-heirophant-a role model for S.E.E.S.
junpei-magician-his potential with his persona and Chidori
Yukari-lovers-emotional attachment and feelings
Fuuka-priestess-showing how instead of trying to fit in she’s true to herself
Ken-justice(I think)-wanting justice for his mum
Aigis-chariot-her chosen path to protect makoto
Koromoru-strength(I think)-His strength to actually beat shadows and to move from the priest.
Makoto-fool-his ‘journey’ and then for aigis ‘the answer’
Honestly I can’t see yusuke being the father of the phantom thieves
@@ItsPapayaI think you’re thinking too hard with the arcanas because Makoto is very clearly the “mother” of the phantom thieves yet they have her Priestess instead and Haru is Empress, I’m sure there is a meaning to it but most definitely not a family
Yeah I probably I am But
I mainly just summarised the tarots like chariot mean having strength and focusing on a goal.
Doesn’t specifically mean aigis
Been awhile since I've seen one of your videos, Mr. Romo. The Shelfinator. I like seeing your like count, your view count steadily increasing. From the single digits to the double. Double to triple. One day, triple to quadruple. So on. So forth.
I love to see you being successful with what you enjoy, what you're passionate about. You've come a long way and I believe you'll keep going even further. I look forward to your continued success. I'm proud to see, as a friend, from when you started as a no name content creator to where you are today. Keep up the fantastic work 😊
Concerning Penelo, i really do understand your opinion ^^
Despite i did love her (+...i completed her skill, including Burst and FR in DFFOO + bought 2 alt outfit for her
Futaba has a sibling dynamic with both Yusuke and Joker.
Ann hated Makoto for calling her out on her lack of action towards Shiho, and then they became friends over them acknowledging day were the only girls on the team at the time
Yusuke and Ryuji had an odd couple dynamic and always hung out
Ann and Ryuji had a bickering, yet close friendship, with her having a 'cool girl' like personality around him.
Morgana was close to Haru that was a result of his contentious relationship with Ryuji.
Morgana was in love with Ann.
Akechi and Makoto had a passive aggressive yet intense rivalry
Akechi actively went out of his way to avoid the Phantom thieves aside from Joker because he felt like they were potential casualties in his plans.
Haru looked up to Makoto due to her action contrasting with Haru's passivity, and you get the sense they spent time with each other outside their group
Morgana literally had to reassess his dynamic with the group due to Makoto and Futaba having skills and a better understanding of the metaverse. Futaba treated him like a pet at times.
Yusuke actively contributed to Makoto's assessment of events
And most importantly of all all of the party members filled a heist role, Ocean's 11 style, which was the point of them being there. I'd say this game did a phenomenal job relaying to the player their roles.
I still like Phantom Thieves a lot ( hell Makoto and Futaba are still in my top 10 favorite persona characters after all these years) but I do agree that they are the weakest team when compared to SEES or the Investigation Team.
It’s weird. The persona games I’d argue are best experienced when you are in your teenage years since a lot of topics especially resonate with the age group. But while P3 and P4 are games that you can still appreciate ( and in some ways become better) as you get older, I can’t really say the same for P5. It was aimed at teenagers and only teenagers.
Honestly same. Despite Persona 5 being more better graphically and gameplay, I honestly still prefer Persona 4 just because it feels like you’re actually making friends with your team rather than Persona 5 which just kinda feels forced with the phantom thieves
It's a bad take. I can get not liking Morgana and maybe a few Phantom Thieves, but to out them as a whole in a list of worst JRPGs teammates? Hell nah. Either bad taste or he hasn't played many JRPGs.
@@abysmalreign2207 I agree with you the man has absolutely terrible takes. Like if he’s this negative about Persona 5 for no reason then I can only imagine if he played something like YIIK
To be honest, I do agree that the phantom thieves are pretty boring. Each of them gets one day in the spotlight and vanishes forever after.
Also I think it’s pretty strange that they get sequel games where they needed to deal with extra villains even though they apparently made the world a better place in the original…
Even though I love this character to pieces, I'd have to say Therion from Octopath 1. I like edgy characters so I will just gravitate towards him, but in terms of story, he holds little to no story depth in the story past "me want wristband off" and "me help cuz she trust me". They handled his betrayal so awfully, since we just don't get enough screentime of Darius and Therion's relationship to see the impact of it. Even past that, his character conflicts the idea of "staying in a party", so being with the rest of the cast doesnt make sense half of the game. Also considering we get little to no connection between him and the party (less his fault and more the fault of the game), he feels so forced in just because he's a main character.
He's also, IMO atleast, one of the worst party members battle wise. The thief class has some pretty mid skills (besides SP Thief and MAYBE armor corrosive), and the fact that hes locked to it means that he doesnt have many synergies. Add onto the fact he's, for the most part (past evasion and speed) a jack of all trades, he has literally no good pairing besides hunter, which even then he doesnt do that well since after you Leghold trap, he has nothing to do past maybe going for breaks. Also pair with the fact that the passives hes locked to early game just makes him slow in terms of progression. While you could make him really good, youre taking a lot of investment from other party members, like using stat nuts on him instead of physical on Olberic.
OH BUT IT GETS MUCH WORSE. Once you unlock the runelord class, Therion's evasion comes next to pointless, since Tressa can just Sidestep buff the whole team, and even so his evasion will still lead to him getting hit half the time anyway since enemies in the first game had high amounts of accuracy. Couple that with his really bad HP pool, he can't even be a good dodge tank. Even the Leghold trap strat i mentioned doesnt matter since any character can use it and Leghold trap doesnt take effect until the next turn, so there is no point in outspeeding the enemy. So in truth he has literally no niches where he's the best at, as literally everyone else could do what he does but better.
Hey, I actually agree with you on Persona 5's cast.When it comes to character relations there are plenty... between Morgana, Ryuji and Ann. But every character that joins after the first chapter just sort of exists.
Also I found Morgana, Ryuji and Ann to be very annoying.
Yusuke and Futaba kinda have one.
>Says the Phantom Thieves aren't that interesting compared to the other Persona's main casts
>The video gets a ton of dislikes from P5 fans
>The video gets way more views than the estimated
Common Game Shelf W
that entire persona section really had me rolling lmao
Idk what he is going on about with the last entry, but they aren't awful.
My complaint would be that the characters are kinda anime cookie cutter to a certain extent, but there are way way worst characters like that. Literally 90% of anime games have generic anime characters. And usually do the cliche " with the power of friendship, we can do anything". lol
The stalker class in Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is significantly worse than sharla. Sharla can heal very well, the Stalker can't do anything well.
Also maybe Nicol and Shulk in Future Redeemed could be considered bad too. They can't hold agro to save Rex's life. Although that is more attributed to Rex being busted out the ass then Shulk and Nicol being bad
Nikol can be busted in his own way. He can be practically immortal and the "last line of defense" in hard fights if you give him the memory locket to revive other party members. Enel would have a very good video guide detailing that strategy. I ended up using that same strategy myself because of how ridiculous he is at staying alive.
After playing through most of Persona 3 Reload I can safely say they are better group of character then the other persona games just in their interactions and story.
While Persona 3 is great, the SEEs group have some of the worst development as they're not really friends as much as they operate as co workers. I haven't played Reload yet though, so maybe they added some more group dynamics and events. The Persona 4 group is by far the best group of friends of the modern Persona games. But it makes sense because they took what worked with 3 and doubled down on it for 4 while removing the stuff that didn't work.
@@abysmalreign2207I'm about at 10/6 in Reload, and I'd say they're about the same level of friendship as the Thieves, Mitsuru at this point only really talks to a few of them and they keep to themselves outside the 2nd Years. That being said, the game doesn't really have like...the MCU humor that 5 has so to me they don't reach the lows the Thieves go to. They're pleasant co-workers. The Thieves stop feeling like a friend group when Haru joins.
Roy is meant to be a subversion of the typical overpowered destinated for greatness hero (like Alm or Sigurd for exemple), unlike those ones he is not that special (not even the heir of the biggest domain of his land) and don't have any special power (he ends up mastering the Binding Blade because he was the one holding the Fire Emblem) but tanks to his leader abilities and his inteligence he happens to be leading the army that end up saving the world. He is weak in battle (it even complexe him according to supports) but he is great to make people around him better versions of themself, this is why in gameplay he has the best support affinity : fire, with his supports he can make other units really powerful (it litteraly turns Shanna into a beast in the battlefield), unfortunatly you may waste it on Lilina...
Naaah I’m sorry
Fantom thieves? No way they made it to the list
Is he wrong though? They stagnante so hard after their Single-Palace long arcs, and don't feel like friends; they feel like Joker's fanclub.
After playing P3R and then going back to P5R I really felt how barebones the PT are and how little agency they have, especially after their singular arc. They don't even compare To SEES
The amount of times I felt annoyed when nobody is beating some sense to Ryuji when he's acting up really made me realize what p5 is missing. Yu and Yosuke made a deal with each other where they would talk/beat some senses with each other when one of them acts up, which actually happened when Nanako died. Minato is pretty much the most unhinged between the three MC so he would do the same with Junpei. But nothing like that happened with Ryuji. Joker doesn't even say anything back in Morgana runaway arc.
Haven't finished the video yet but I would bet money that no one from Like a Dragon or Infinite Wealth is on it because Yakuza party members don't fucking disappoint
If I make a video on best party members all of them would get their own spot
@@TheGameShelfi would love that as a video, i’m curious
Honestly I like the Phantom Thieves and enjoy how they band together and relate to eachother through shared Trauma. I like how not only are there alot of fun scenes with them but I think the messenger moments do alot of good quick back and forth character and team building moments. I really dont get the sentiment that they dont feel like a friend group at all Minus Morgana (fuck Morgana). I also think Haru feels better in Royal due to the extra dungeon giving her more party time and Strikers gives her alot of love as well.
I’m gonna need to sit down after the audacity of that persona take
Gonna have to sit down and think about how based that take is
@@GameFreak64101based? That shit was NOT based
@@smokedsanjl based
@@GameFreak64101 Nuh uh
It is based. You cannot compare P5s cast to the older ones when the older ones overshadows P5s.
I think that if haru joined with makoto (they could’ve been friends beforehand and run into the same situation together as both are pressured by adults) I think she would’ve been more appreciated and then make her more interesting as she’s forced into a political marriage right after futaba’s palace. I don’t think it would take anything away from makoto (as she’s still very important all the way up to sae’s palace) while giving haru more depth and time to develop
Kimahri can be a total beast. If you know how to. There's a trick where you can teach him Holy early in the game, and he kicks ass with it.
I didn't know about that trick, but I built him as a mage, and he did pretty well (it took some time though).
Not to mention he can reach the Ultima spell by midgame (if you plan for it). Which makes it super easy to pass on that spell to Lulu and Yuna (Yuna goes from a harmless white mage to an instrument of DEATH with that spell).
I kinda see the angle of the Phantom Thieves take, but I think that through the many interactions they still have that are focused around the story, as well as their social links, they still get a good amount of personality. Their chemistry just works on a more group based level rather than being directly interpersonal. I also found Royal to fill in many of the gaps in their characterization, through the improved relevance of Akechi as well as anything regarding the Royal exclusive plot. Finally, in terms of gameplay, every character has their role and you will probably use them all depending on the situation. I definitely think that SEES blow them out of the water in terms of pretty mich everything, but the Investigation Team?
I would actually make a point for them being the worst party in any JRPG I ever played. Yeah, they have chemistry, but that chemistry is often times boring at best and downright disgusting at worst. Yosuke's relation to pretty much any character is terrible. He harrasses the girls and is super toxic towards Kanji. His only redeeming qualities lie in his Social Link and involvement in the actual plot, but since P4 consists mostly of slice of life comedy, we mostly see his worst parts. Chie and Yukiko are fine, but after their dungeon arc they never really get any interesting interaction again. I honestly forgot they were best friends at some point. Chie is also reduced to comic relief often times and her best moments are when she is the only person in the group to call out Yosuke's shitty behavior. Yukiko is fine, good Social Link and fun enough in the story. I hate Rise, everyone does, she is annoying and her Social Link cannot fix that. Teddie is the worst. That is all. I cannot think of any redeeming qualities and the fact that people even consider putting Morgana in the spot for worst Persona mascot character when Teddie exists baffles me.
Kanji is great but sadly is shafted as the butt of every joke after his arc. The man is constantly made fun of by his friends for the very thing that his storyline was about.
Naoto has zero personality in most dialogues besides being the exposition whore.
And gameplay wise, they are also not great. Every character has a very fixed role that they can never break out of. In P3 and P5, there are much better customization options and it's more valuable for a character to be able to do a little bit of everything. In P4, the best characters are the ones that are the best at one thing they do. Yukiko is the best mage, Kanji is the best physical attacker, Teddie is the best support, everyone else has redeeming qualities but can't really surpass the obvious picks. Nothing makes that more clear than Naoto, the character with the most variety in her moveset, being the forst character to fall off aside from her one endgame party buff. Since you can't switch up your team while exploring and also don't return to the entrance as frequently, you don't adjust your elements as well (you have Yu for that anyway) and just go with the party that will on average be the most effective in most situations. In P3 and P5, I trained and played every character until the end, but in 4 I stuck with pretty much the same party for the entire mid- to endgame.
I don't want to say that critizising the Phantom Thieves is wrong, they have plenty of weaknesses. And I also don't mean to say that P4 has the worst cast ever, because I'm sure there are games with much worse casts out there. But I really like the Phantom Thieves personally. And I really don't like the Investigation Team. So yeah, I felt that I needed to get that off my chest after this haha
I don't think y'all understand how BADLY the GS shelf hates Morgana.
When he says frame 1, he MEANS frame 1 to the point that the server itself imposed a hard mode of "No Morgana." Fuck you Morgana.
That being said, I'm gonna echo what i said before which is:
Jeff in Earthbound has gotta be such a weak character, both story and gameplay wise.
Story wise, he only has two mentionable moments, one at his introduction at the school and the second is when meeting Dr.Andonuts.
After that, he kinds becomes a nothing sandwich.
Gameplay wise, he becomes wholly unuseful bordering on a hindrance with how frail he is while also dealing no damage in comparison to the main 3 PK users. His spy ability is useless as hell in most situations because whatever item the enemy holds, we can just get after beating them
Bottle Rockets are useful, sure, but like that's the only ability that's unique to him but is still outclassed by like any other PK ability and ESPECIALLY when Poo gets PK Starstorm.
Other than that I feel like he brings nothing in my experiences replaying Earthbound.
I have to hard disagree with Persona 5's cast here, coming from the perspective of someone who has played Royal and Strikers but not Tactica.
Makoto acts sort of like a motherly figure to Futaba in her arc and story scenes of the game, she is portrayed as a caring person who cannot show weakness due to the high standards of her sister Sae, whom she cares about.
Futaba also has an interesting relationship with Yusuke as they both have friendly banter between eachother, for example when Yusuke messes up Futaba's expensive figurines in the effort to make something more artistic to his liking and Futaba criticises his aesthetic eye.
Ann is done a hard disrespect after Kamoshida's arc and that is undeniable, but in her social link she's seen having a lot of emotional difficulties going through Shiho's recovery and her naivity in the modeling and fashion industry, pissing off professionals with her natural talent and as I said, her naivity, barely knowing about the world of fashion and modeling apart from shopping and looking pretty for the camera, she forms an interesting bond with the girls that results in saying things in the style of: "Ahhhh... Men." Which makes them feel secure with a struggling but still determined partner by their side.
This is part of Royal but a MAJOR upgrade is done to the bond between Akechi, the protagonist and the new character, Kasumi Yoshizawa, forming the known Royal Trio, they share a bond seen throughout the game in some extra scenes added to the game and them being the focus of the Third Semester in Royal, apart from bringing another new character, Takuto Maruki to the mix.
Haru was denied screentime and growth because... *Ahem* Morgana, but in her social link you can see what her arc did not let us fully see, how her family is incredibly wealthy and how power was just tossed around constantly, other family members wanted the company for themselves, seeing what all of that entailed for her and her family, etc. But she did not brag about it at all, she wanted to be seen as a normal, optimistic, somewhat secretly sadistic and passionate who just so happened to be wealthy, she also has to deal with inheriting her father's company while still being in highschool and thinking about what the future could have for her and how she wants to separate her own image from her father and the company. She finds solace in the produce she grows and eventually separates herself from the company, in hopes of opening a café, which is her dream. Ironically, she has the best relationship with Morgana, as she likes tending to his needs and cares for him more than any other Phantom Thief as they met after Sugimura kicked Morgana to the wall. They're very good friends and it shows Haru's love and care for all of the group but especially Morgana, as they also think of different shenanigans together (As seen in her Showtime Attack (A Royal mechanic) with Morgana). She also develops a relationship with Makoto where they give strength to one-another in their ways and see themselves as not being alone in taking care of the group sometimes, having a killer Showtime Attack with her to prove their common fighting strength and also having an arc dedicated to her in Strikers, which I wholeheartedly recommend checking out.
Ryuji has a brighter bond with the boys, and while The Shido Incident™is absolutely horrendous, it is sadly, a part of Japanese humour, a cultural difference that strikes a lot in the west. That does not justify it though. Going back on topic, his bond shines with the boys and especially the protagonist and Yusuke, hanging out together constantly and laughing between eachother, it feels as if they'd known eachother throughout their whole lives and gives a comforting feel to the relationship.
And the protagonist has a sibling-like bond with Futaba, seeing as how they live together and how they treat eachother and how Futaba can trust him more than anyone (Besides Sojiro) to help her come out of her shell and leave her unhealthy hikikomori life style, even promising she wants to go back to school. The abuse she suffered while she jumped from family member to family member greatly affected her, to the point where her uncle would not feed her or let her clean herself while he berated her while drunk and spending his money on gambling. Futaba's trauma has so many family implications and her abuse affected her so much that she locked herself in to the point even Sojiro couldn't convince her to come out, and it was thanks to the Phantom Thieves that she was able to establish a familial bond with Sojiro, the protagonist and even in part with Makoto, and real friendships in the rest of the group.
Wow! That was a handful! Sorry for such a long comment and I hope you don't take this as me trying to change your mind in any way, this is just my opinion and perspective after playing OG, Royal and Strikers :).
Amazing video like always!!
There's also the Hawaii trip that does a lot of leg work regarding intrapersonal relationships.
Ryuji, while surprised to see him, didn't hesitate to defer to Yusuke for his agreement regarding his excitement. Ryuji is also the first to realize Yusukes' connection to storms, implying he's observed the phenomenon on more than just the occasions we were a party to.
All present party members buy gifts for Futaba and Morgana and, specifically, Joker, Ann, and Makoto fit it into their plans for the trip. Thinking of and being conscientious of those apart from them denotes a level of closeness amongst the group.
During that time, Futaba pushes Morgana to be more introspective and consider the possibility that he may not be what he believes himself to be and relating his struggle to her own, but also gracious enough to not continue pushing the subject when he affirms himself and cedes that he may very well be correct, but makes it clear she's very willing to listen and be there for him.
Ann luckily has the hotel room scene. Locked out of her room, she is adamant about staying with the guys. With zero apprehension, she's putting her trust in Joker, Ryuji, and Mishima, which marks an important level of growth and healing coming off a couple of months past the Kamoshida incident. Despite being forced into a position that she could be taken advantage of, she's found men in her life who she trusts implicitly enough to be vulnerable and knows with a 100% certainty she is safe with. The original trio having a night to reminisce is also a nice midpoint to cap off how far the three of them have come and taking the time to get to know each other better and investing in their romantic interest.
I feel like youre the only person in this comment section who played the game and paid attention.
@@BobbyHoppNo. It's just that he had to play the spinoffs for that skeleton team to make any semblance of a "group".
Bro just doesn't like persona lmfao.
Roy is my favorite character in all of Fire Emblem, and as a unit, I'd say he's an average unit throughout most of the game. I can see why people think he's a bad unit, but if I ask me, if he was playable in FE7, he probably would be a bad unit because that game just straight up HATES swords and he won't get to use the Binding Blade.
If anyone were to ask me who the worst unit in FE6, I would say Sophia. She joins around the middle of the game with the lowest base stat total in the entire game and will be outclassed by Raigh & Niime. And Raigh's not even that good of a unit either (which might make you happy because I remember in one of your videos you personally hated Raigh.)
Still, good video btw. :)
Edit: When I played Binding Blade, I gotta say that Roy still managed to be pretty useful in my playthrough. But that most likely be because of his Fire Affinity, and that thing is just busted, especially when you support him with the more powerful characters such as Lance & Alen.
The phantom thieves connect with each other because they're a band of misfits.
Why don’t people understand this???
Who wants to bet that the friend group in Persona 5 would have been improved drastically without Morgana? The guy who constantly antagonists one of you, objectifies and simps over the other, constantly inserts himself into everyone's interactions bc he will die if he doesn't feel important for 5 seconds.... AND not to mention, overrides every interaction with the world you as the player have. I bet you would grow so much stronger friendships without that pain in the ass constantly keeping things awkward
Yeah, ever since I played P5, i had the feeling it was overrated and that something was amiss among the party. Thanks for having put into words what I had tried to think about but didn't find the right words to express.
Hit the nail on the head with the final entry.
And I can confirm the new content didn't fix what happens to a certain character.
Honestly I feel the Phantom Thieves are a great group with a good dynamic… until Makoto joins and messes up the entire groups dynamic and it never really recovers.
Makoto’s problem is she’s too good. She is better than everyone else at their roles and everyone just praises her for simply existing.
After she joins Ann basically ceases to exist and Ryuji becomes stupider and the butt of every joke.
The rest of the party members aren’t much better with Futaba being waifubait, Haru not really doing anything, and Akechi being temporary
"Babysit Roy" yeah...
Fire emblem top is probably Amelia and ewan. She's so bad even early game she'd be a task to raise same as him.
Paper Mario probably miss mouse. Getting her isn't worth it.
Ff it's hard to say. So many useless party members
Tales of the abyss. Anise.
The princess guide. All the bought for units. Waste of money
For Paper Mario people also suggested Lakileste and Flurrie, but idk from what I recall even I got use out of them
@@TheGameShelf i get some use out of them but never the mouse. She just exists as a bonus.
Hopefully the remaster adds more to the partners and makes the ms mouse mission happen early or sooner.
Luke is the worst in Tales of the Abyss. Guy is better all around with Cresent Strike being a great gaurd break and center allowing him to heal himself combined with how broken free run is with how fast Guy is...and even if you do want both in your party the AI for melee is terrible and if you're playing multiplayer Luke's attacks tend to have knockback ruining your combos. Anise as a mage is great for synergy. Her having access to only Light and Dark elements and nit having to multitask the healer role like Tear means she's causing the most FOF changes. Anise makes Tear and Jade even better party members.
Tear having access to multiheal spells and Guy being able to generate wind FoFs on a dime leading Healing Circle to being Fairy Circle makes Natalia redundant.
How is Anise the worst in the game exactly?
@@Chelaxim wow you try to defend anise by bringing up everyone else. Luke is not bad you just sound like you don't know how to play. My Luke can juggle a foe while the ai get their spells ready to finish them off and that's on the hardest difficulty. Anise has no use and she can get stuck when playing offense and why would I use her when tear Natalia and jade exist? Faulty logic there as anise is never used by anyone and her only one use is the arena data logs. She's clunky
Yes anise is bad. Use half of your own argument to see that even as you just explain how the other three are better in general. Guy is very bad as he causes a lot of super armor situations and speed isn't much when you don't so much damage.
Wish abyss made a joke about the bad units like graces as anise would definitely be the one made fun of.
Not responding again. Anise sucks period
@@ivanbluecool bruh, chill, it's just a video game opinion.
The guest party members in smt 4. They either contribute very little to a fight or actively work against you
#StopRyujiAbuse pls he deserves better
I don't know if you're reasoning for Persona 5 is that solid. Lots of JRPG characters never interact. Remember that time Lulu and Auron spoke to each other? No? Because it never happened. Remember that one time in The Office when Stanely and Meredith spoke to each other? Wait that never happened either? Well in the first Star Wars movie Luke and Vader have to speak right? Nope.Maggie and Glenn from The Walking Dead. Lucille only says one sentace at Tobias for the whole of Aressted Development. Walt Jr and Jesse from Breaking Bad. Randy and Cartman from South Park. Friends was on for a decade and how many times did Chandler and Pheobe ever interact? Tons of people in King of The Hill most notably a missed opportunity with Boomhauer and John Redcorn. And dont get me started on Game of Thrones and The Wire. Half the cast is unawre of the existence of the other half.
That's such copium, P5 has horrible writing and using the first star wars as a excuse doesn't work.
I agree, plus there are dynamics being ignored, such as Futaba and Yusuke. Futaba and Ryuji. Ryuji and Ann. Makoto and Ann. Ryuji and Makoto. Haru and Morgana. And so on, there are multiple scenes for all of these character pairings. Even if you feel like the dynamics are weak or uninteresting they are still established. The phantom theives aren’t perfect but they are a victim of popular = bad mentality. The video creator said he liked them when playing the game. That’s where it matters. Furthermore he shows the octopath traveler cast afterwards as a better cast. I love Octopath Traveler but the characters have absolutely no interactions with eachother.
@@oof5992smh you’re blind
Before I go on a rant about Persona 5’s cast, lemme explain that Sharla is FAR worse than you brought up. Most of her arts prior to the late game are all almost healing, break, or support. Most of the combat relies on chain attacks for bosses. The way these work is based on affinity and the move type, which is determined by its color. Most every other party member is going to have plenty of red arts, which are physical. Sharla has nearly all blue, which is ether. If you break a chain of attacks during a round, you risk ending it early. This, combined with the fact you probably won’t be using Sharla much after Dunban joins (literally any agility up gem is going to help make him impossible to hit, negating healing), means that even with the art situation, the affinity with her in the party is going to be bad. Xenoblade 1 is a game where healing is about as pointless as it can get. You take more damage than you can heal comfortably.
Anyway. Persona. SEES is the most human cast in the modern trilogy and home to my favorite JRPG characters ever (Aigis mainly), and the Investigation Team is the most 2000s anime squad I’ve ever seen. I love them both, but as someone who started with Persona 5, I always felt the cast of that game was a bit weak. Ryuji felt like Yosuke but always swearing (yet still the most interesting party member in the base game, I 100% agree with you there), Ann was just a character that lost any character drive following Kamoshida, Morgana is just Teddie but instead a simp for one person, Yusuke is a bland Persona 3 Protag who can’t take criticism, Futaba is otaku bait, Haru is genuinely one of my favorites in the base game characters and that’s only cause she acts uncharacteristically sadistic yet there’s literally no time to appreciate her until every side game following, Akechi is only good after they fixed him in Royal, and Kasumi is my 2nd favorite character in the game besides Maruki.
Notice how I left out a certain character with a protagonist’s name? I dislike Makoto so much. Her Confidant genuinely is my least favorite but not because of the content. If that were the case, I’d say the Moon Arcana in Persona 3 was. I dislike it so much because it wastes a character who could have genuinely been super interesting. They turn someone who was controlled by other people and pressured to do so much to get into a good university, into a character whose entire personality I forgot while typing this. I had to physically look up her confidant to remember what happened. I *think* she was jealous by an old friend so she asks you to be her fake boyfriend to get her friend to stop dating some guy? I’m sorry but there was more substance in Kenji’s SL in Persona 3 than this. At least there I wanna know what happens next. With Makoto I just don’t care. She feels super uninteresting as a character in my opinion. Compare her to someone like Yukari from Persona 3, a character I never expected to act as human as she does. She deals with past trauma realistically (to the extent the game shows), is a character with complex character traits, interacts with the party members well, and shows that she’s an integral member of the team. Every character in P4 interacts SO WELL with each other. They feel like a found family, and I can see the bond they share with each other. The members of SEES feel like colleagues, the Investigation Team feels like a family, but the Phantom Thieves just feel like a group in a group project with a circle of kinda close friends mixed with a couple of random people from the class.
But in all fairness, regardless of how I feel, I get that people really love the cast of Persona 5. To them, they mean a lot. At the time I played, the same could be said for me. The game centers around rebellion, a topic many people can relate to in a rough time as it is today, hence the widespread reach the game had. I don’t necessarily think they are the absolute worst JRPG party ever (there has to be much worse out there), but they for sure aren’t the greatest
Yea your Makoto hate is kinda stupid here because clearly you didn’t even get her slink?? 😭 she wasn’t jealous of her friend?? She felt like the responsibility of being student council president was up to her and to get students outta of bad situations. So she helped a classmate get out of a toxic relationship?? Where in tf did you see jealousy anywhere in the slink??? You keep saying Makoto is uninteresting yet you don’t even get her character at all. She’s a character who’s sick of being told what to do and being called useless and she doesn’t rly make a change until the thieves get into her life, which is something I feel you all don’t realize. The thieves connect in the way as they are all outlasts rejected or rejecting by society, it isn’t until the Phantom Thieves get into their lives where they actually start to be them selves and connect with each other 🤦♂️ if you’re gonna hate on the game at least try to understand it
@@smokedsanjlthat's a lot of defense for character which in all fairness you can say you like but that's barely the point OP makes, the point is that the ENTIRE cast is weak.
@@WKCamperer which isn’t true and is just your opinion but alr
you can change your jobs in final fantasy xii, you do it inside the centurio hunt clan iirc. i'd push back a little bit on kimahri, he has a ton of utility if you use his sphere grid. easy strat is to give him rikku's sphere grid up to steal so he can move fast and instant kill machina like rikku can and then just throw him on lulu's sphere grid for the extra elemental damage as needed. i'm sure some would say that by endgame it's pointless to use him but you can say that about every party member in that game besides tidus, rikku, and wakka. his overdrive sucks but the blue mage abilities aren't really what ya use him for
I think the biggest annoyance with the pt for me is how social links are for them basically holding them back from having a character arc in the story biggest example being futaba where in her link she is super introverted meanwhile in the story she is super energetic
Persona 5's group isn't a bunch of Friends. The whole premise of the game is that it's business which you make deals with individuals. What they bring to the table is purely function to the business and not the group as a friends.
which makes them interacting in outside situations all that more awkward between them and the only time I was convinced that they might be more than Business partners was the ending to Persona 5, then Royal came along and returned to form.
No Jogurt? Bro how can you not include Jogurt?
I think at the very least that the connections that you the player make with the Phantom Thieves lead to them being interesting enough characters (except Morgana). While their interactions with other characters are mostly lacking, I do think that through their confidants you get to learn a lot more about the characters and what makes them tick
Honestly I can't think of any terrible party members in RPGs, maybe Makalov from PoR and RD.
Btw are you going to make a video about the best party members in RPGs?
I LOVE the Thieves and some of them are a couple of my favorite characters in Persona, but they have problems for sure. As a group they kinda suck when some of them never talk with half a group. The characters themselves I like, but they don't function as a group in P5/P5R. Strikers does improve on this, but it still isn't perfect. The thing that hits me most though is how Sumi in Royal NEVER interacts with any of the Thieves beyond Joker and Akechi. I love the Royal trio to pieces, Akechi is infinitely better after he breaks the mirage and Sumi is still my favorite Persona character even over a year after starting P5R and playing the rest of the modern trilogy, but they're SO isolated from the rest of the Thieves. Akechi gets some good interactions with Haru and Futaba (mainly in Mementos but still), but that's about it. Sumi doesn't even get that. Imagine what it'd be like if she jumped in on one of Ryuji's training sessions or, as much as I might dislike Makoto, if Sumi and Makoto had a mini-arc relating to how they're both expected to be the perfect students but can't. There's so much potential there, but she doesn't get any of it, probably because as good as the Royal semester is it's only 15 to 20 hours and they need to split the time evenly between Akechi, Sumi and the antagonist. And that's for two characters that I adore, before talking about characters that are undercooked (COUGH COUGH Haru was robbed, at least she got more in Strikers because man she's great) or characters I straight up dislike. In the end I still like the Thieves as individuals, there are still some good dynamics as well like Ryuji and Ann being either wonderful siblings or a surprisingly decent couple depending on your perspective, and I'll always have a soft spot for them and P5 as a whole since it was my first Persona, but none of it is perfect. No Persona game is perfect. My favorite game ever is Persona 4 and I will avidly defend some of its more questionable aspects, but it isn't perfect by any means. Same goes for P5, though the Royal semester is my favorite piece of content in all of Persona, by the time I finish P3R I imagine that P5 will be my least favorite of the modern games. But hey, I like these games, and I won't let anyone stop me from liking all three of them even though fan consensus would tell you P3 is the only good one and media consensus tells you P5 is the only one that exists.
Also in all fairness to calling out Rise like that before going into P5, she's possibly the most busted navigator in the series and has only recently gotten a run for her money with Fuuka in P3 Reload so she's gotta get some credit for that at least!
anyway thanks for coming to my tedtalk-
For the worst fire emblem unit, I'd probably say its bantu in both ds remakes.
Or Sophia
@eleonorepb4565 honestly it could be either of them I picked bantu over Sophia as Sophia can have some use with ranged attacks and staff utility upon promotion
Damn no Akira live a live mention :(
He’s like super weak on the original game and he’s a main character which means you have to play as him (for at least one chapter)
I don't agree with the phantom thieves take as a whole, but yeah Morgana sucks. Why is a cat forcing a curfew on me?
Morgana is good or at least much better in p5r, and is a case of "just use some effort and the member will become far better, but not in their debut game"
Your comment section always takes your very fair, subjective, perspective so personally 😭😭. Loved the video and I RESPECT your opinion.
Also you look gorgeous as always 🙊
Yeah i agree with the phantom thieves take. They all use ryuji as a punching bag for no reason and are all loosely tied together because of circumstance. They do become more likeable in their spin off titles but certain unlikable traits remain and it feels like they dont mature at times
The persona take was kinda sus tbh. And complaining about how the thieves mistreat ryuji right after talking about SEES and forgetting or willfully omitting that Junpei has the exact same role as ryuji within the group was cringe as hell. What is cool about the phantom thieves is that normally they wouldn’t ever get the chance to meet each other, but due to their circumstances they were able to find solace within each other, and a purpose to fight even though they were wronged. I think the dynamics are pretty straight forward within the team, I get that it’s your opinion but it makes me wonder if we even played the same game lol.
I really don't like the phantom thieves too much either. I found them all bland and irritating, except for yusuke he gets a pass and ryuji's my boy. I played through persona 5 royal and saw the 3rd semester. All the phantom thieves get some development in the 3rd semester but they're not the main focus there. I heard they get some fleshing out in persona 5 strikers but I haven't played it yet so I can't say anything about that. But I did play tactica, and they deadass just focus on the new characters. When you get to the 3rd boss of the game, it's revealed as to why the phantom thieves are even there other than for money.
Makoto is the goat.
Now I already know how Ann was mostly forgotten and ruined by marketing to be a fanservice character. Tharja from Fire Enblem was like Ann but darker and ruined by marketing.
Walter in SMT IV.
Granted he is only for the first like...15% of the game but still
Out of curiosity why do you hate Persona 4? I quite like the game and would be interested in hearing points against it.
Breath of fire 2.Other than Kate i struggle to remember anyone
Ryuji, tremendo pana. Mi hermano, mi hombre
its kind of sad that i feel the phantom thieves have more of a dynamic in STRIKERS than the original game, like I love the characters (except morgana) when developing their social links, but main story wise they really don't have much chemistry with each other and its a shame because they COULD, but atlus just did a terrible job writing them. all the ryuji abuse really pissed me off too like I hated the 'abuse character when they did nothing wrong' trope before this, but god p5 really does it the worst.
But as I said earlier, I genuinely think they have great interactions in strikers, and to another extent the dancing game where they're able to TALK to each other, and we can see how much they care for one another, rather than in p5 where they all feel just so... boring when they're together.
(edit); i highly recommend playing royal and strikers, they both definitely fleshed out the characters more, and royal is just a way better experience than og p5. i totally understand the burnout though bc god its kind of like three houses the amount of nonstop praise and dickriding persona 5 gets.)
Oh boy Sharla is the worst unit in Xenoblade. You can play as her and use her like I did. Hell I happen to beat the game twice with her in my party.
I will say this her unluckiness of getting over shadowed by Riki and Melia is her weakness. Also I use Melia on some fights. And Riki was always in my party for the healing.
Saying how it is at the Phantom Thieves
Yusuke and Futaba annoy eachother, even she call her Inari.
Haru has her creepy funny moments, her awful driving and money.
Makoto is the voice of reason but also the most cariño of the group
Ryuji is the best boy, but yeah the bully him unnecesarily.
Morgana is annoying especially when he is simping for ann, but Its waaaay more toretable than Teddy.
Ann, yeah she becomes fanscervice and doesnt apports something.
Akechi is the best character since Royal.
Dude I wish Boney from Mother 3 was on this list lmao. sure he gives some extra damage, but he’s only useful for like one turn and story wise he is literally just a dog
16:35 LMFAOOO THAT CHIE YOU USED
Anyone who has played the entire legend of heroes franchise is likely to say Josette in sky the third. She's so notoriously bad that the meta of using her is to specifically bench her for her party support passive.
Hahaha that Nino quote at 1:56 😂
The cast of octopath traviler all of them
If FFXIV counts then I'd say Lyse, she's so bland, the only good part of her character I'd say is her dynamic with Papalymo
I am definitely curious on why you dislike Persona 4 the most. But yeah, I agree with a lot of things said in this video.
As a Persona 5 fan I agree except all the hate for the characters is just to Morgana I could clown on him all day for how awful he is.
YOOOO LET'S GOOO, I MISSED THE SHELF VIDEOS
Ok, felix from three houses
Is long time my friend and amazing job
So yea, ill be real with you, despite my hatred towards P5, ive never played it, but i had my reasons.
Even from not touching the game i just never felt like any of the characters seemed all that interesting, and whenever i did look into them they still were never interesting.
Even when i had no access to play any of the other Personas and the only one that i could play and be my first game in the series was P5 i still never picked it up. I told myself i would get a Vita and P4 before i even touch P5, because ive always had interest playing P4 for the longest time becauseof old videos i watched back in Middle School.
As time went on and being patient Atlus did end up rereleasing P4G and P3 (albeit Portable) i hopped and played P4G and P3P back to back and had a blast. Loved the atmosphere and most notably the characters. Even with Portable's limitations it is still a great version of P3, especially with Kotone as a character and despite Reload ditching her, i was still excited to replay P3 through Reload
P5R on the other hand also got a multiplatform release, so even though i got bored of my PS4 in favor of my Series X, i still had a way to play P5R. Despite it released on Game Pass even before P4G and P3P, i still waited to play those games first, because i was that uninterested in P5R still. Even after my first time Persona binge, I STILL didn't want to play P5R.
Petty reasons keep preventing me from even playing the game, "the characters are boring, the atmosphere sucks, Morganna, their outfits are dorky".
If i ever wanted to play an ultra stylish modern JRPG set in Shibuya with fantastic characters i would just play both The World Ends With You games.
At the end of the day i am a hater, i own P5R to eventually play it to see my hate is justified, but never have i had a game be so uninteresting to me despite all it's hype, that it truly prevents me from playing it. Hell im quicker to buy and play Splatoon games just to hate on them before playing P5R
It doesn't matter how incredibly amazing P5R is in the Gameplay when everything else is mid
Persona 5 has 3 big issues that make it distinct from Persona 3 and 4.
1. The social links are more limited due to the plot of the game. This leads for less emotional social links. (Like Akinari or Naoto) and is created to add more “tension” into them.
2. Haru. The phantom thieves are sort of lacking in dynamics compared to other characters, but most of them, especially Ann and Makoto, have extremely good solo arcs. Then there is Haru. The dungeon you get her is the worst in the game, and before you fight the boss of the dungeon the character you unlock there is typically given a big moment to shine. This is not given to Haru at the end of her dungeon, but is given to Morgana. Haru continues to be a boring leach of a party member for the rest of the game.
3. Slightly based off my last point but you don’t really get to see characters before the arc they join your party with the only exception being Makoto. This was “fixed” in Royal by the characters appearing in the background of cutscenes randomly. (It doesn’t help) In persona 3 you can find characters like Ken or Koromaru long before they join your party. Persona 4 characters exist everywhere before they join your party.
Persona 5 DOES have good writing and good characters but they don’t feel interconnected. It would almost be interesting if the story was handled more like LIVE a LIVE and had multiple individual stories that came together for the final chapter.
I mean...Izanagi-No-Okami Picaro goes crazy on NG+
Honestly Barth is a little worse than Roy.
Sharla is decent against some of the super bosses.
what a great day to be an investigation team fan. me personally, i think they got the best chemistry in any persona game
well i dont agree with all the phantom thieves being a bad party i will say they are worse then sees and the investigation team oh and i also agree with ryuji being better then the rest of the thieves but i find the others good for the most part just lacking compared to the previous two games
You lost me at your bad take on Rise.
worst jrpg parties as a whole? fe awakening for me.
i don’t like anyone…
Damn really? I feel some biased for them since they were my first FE party but even then, it has some characters I REALLY love
Nah, I'm sorry, Rise is goated. Best persona navigator there is. Also, is a deep character.
How dare you slander Rise😒
wtf is with the rise hate?!
L takes on Persona overall+
Ryuji never gets a dedicated arc.
He's also just a copy paste of Kanji from p4 without what made Kanji likable
Not really,both yusuke and ryuji have elements of kanji. Ryuji is the bro character and his arcana is chariot but honestly it’s make more sense for it to be magician. I mean yusuke is the emperor arcana.
@@LuminousArc92WHAT? What a garbage take man wtf??
Yosuke never gets a dedicated arc either?
@@smokedsanjl when the hell did I bring yosuke up
I 100% disagree with you opinon on the phantom theives. Remember all those times Morgana told you to go to bed? Such a nice kitty for reminding you how tired you are. And all the text messages to read so I can ignore my irl phone.... good times.
The phantom thieves connect because they’re all outcast ?? Neither of them had anybody before the thieves brought them in? I disagree with so many of your takes about P5 man holy fuck 😭💀
Persona 5 group> P3 group > P4 group
Can we all agree that Teddy is the most annoying Mascot?
No
No, Morgana is worse