Why Bungie Designs Bad Guns in Destiny
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- A link to the article "When Good Cards Go Bad" by Mark Rosewater:
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Speaking of Zaouli's Bane, I think mine might be done reloading. BRB.
That actually made me laugh
LOL which reminds me of Ill Will with Rifled Barrel. God that's painfully slow.
It wasn't even that slow compared to I'll will
Did you remember to get three Chain of Woe stacks before reloading? It reduces it by about a day. It's still two weeks, but still.
Bro. The universe will *actually suffer heat death* before you reload that thing without cocoon. I love that gun to death, but oh my shit, it's not a good choice for many other people for a good reason.
None of you know about "bad" weapons until you've used The Bane from Borderlands 2
AHHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHH
Primitive AK REEEEEEELOOOOOADING! SWEEEEPPPINGGG WEEPPPPONSSSS
Primitive AK at least the babe did damage unlike unforgiven
Primitive AK loved that mak, bahroo and goth stream with hoplites
This was a good video but you HAD to put the QBB in the thumbnail.. SMH Patrick, it's a great weapon!
nKuch kingsfall says otherwise
That's how I felt when I saw Dragon's Breath in the thumbnail - I used that all the time!
Man i've been using the QBB in this week's strikes and i'm like : "it's a fusion AND a sniper!" and am immediately in love with it 😂
Diicto ديكتو the title says "bad guns" that is a generalisation not an opinion
I like the PT..
"Games are meant to be enjoyed... unless you're playing Crash Bandicoot." Ha. "or Dark Souls." YOU STAY AWAY FROM MY BABY
Pat Fagan Same reaction I had. I find Dark Souls very enjoyable. Hard platformers are much more frustrating to me.
Crash Bandicoot is... Difficult? What?
Rhydon65 - lots of people are complaining that the remastered trilogy has increased quite difficulty. Which is true, was confirmed by the devs.
Rhydon65 - the dev said it slightly more difficult cause of the jumps and hitboxes. After that it's just very easy.
I see. So now people are comparing it to Dark Souls? Please tell me that's an exaggeration.
"kill the giant spider thing with fire"....this sums up my three years of Destiny in 7 words
alex metzger 7... 7?! ;A;
Patience and time was my baby in yr 1
AmirBreakable Tv nice
in y1, field scout and bonus special ammo let you carry what, 36 shots? i remember something ridiculous like that because i used it in trials
Y-09 Longbow Synthesis I also loved you too don't worry
Ikr? I build my Hunter around it at Year 2, wearing the 'Bog Wild' Armor set, Vanguard Ghost, Vanguard Primary and Heavy, Vanguard Sparrow and Emblem.
It was godlike to see it fit so well
Rodrianius that's sick man great build
I've used Night Stalker, with Light Of The Pack, and wore my Skyburners Annex Exotic Helmet and I always get "Why are you using that horrible Helmet?" But when they see how many orbs I get with my exotic Arc Sword they realize that I'm a Orb pooping Ninja and I wear it for my enjoyment and their benefit
Plus the helmet looks great
For something to be good, other things must be seen as bad. Fatebringer was great because other weapons where bad. If those bad weapons where as good as Fatebringer then Fatebringer doesn't seem as amazing. PS. Dragons Breath is amazing, just situational. Like most exotics
If there were no bad things life good things wouldn't exist
I disagree that for something to be good, other things must be bad. Rather, for something to be seen as better, other things must be seen as worse. That does not mean that there needs to be anything strictly considered "bad."
dragons breath always been garbage what are you on about
DailyBits not really if u know how to use it in some situation it is better than galli
DailyBits Version 1 was pretty bad, since the rework its great for add control in certain places. Its situational. For example Ive had great success using in WotM, such as Vosik Prt2. Since most of the Dregs come out at the same place I can kill most of them with 1 to 2 shots. If I'm Mid I hit that centre platform just before picking up the Bomb. The Dregs that come down right after get burned making it safer and easier. Also with Ruin Wings + the perk DB has means way more heavy ammo for more fire. I end up firing a few off into the other sides/"lanes" to help with add control. Plus its fire, can't go wrong
Videos like this are why I'm grateful that the Destiny community has Holtzmann's insight. This video was very well thought out and referenced some interesting topics in game design. It also serves as a nice reminder to some people that the world isn't perfect, and not everything can be the best ever.
DC OneFourSeven I see it as another bitching video. Weird how two people can view the same thing/gun different.
I don't think there's any way I could possibly qualify this video as a bitching video. The points made were put across in a reasoned and rational manner and had evidence provided along with them. Being bitchy is often the opposite of that, where in points are presented irrationally.
+Joseph Hinojosa see I view you as a bitchy person, amazing how some people can just be natural bitches
DC OneFourSeven nah it's bitching Bro. You don't like a weapon don't use it. I don't think any developer makes anything in their games bad on purpose especially bungie. Patrick is a vet and expressions of his opinions have slowly turned into this shit. Bitching
Because Rahool is actually the head of bungie
A million deaths...
God Slaya stop that now :)
Who remambers glitched Vanity FWC hand canon. The weapon I miss every day of my pointless since exidental dismantling of it life. Bungie why? Why? Totaly my fault though.
Никто из ниоткуда is that the one that would crash your game? 😂
xTGE the one and only
P.S. it was worth it
Никто из ниоткуда still have it haha and always use it when that one jackass joins through a friend because we can't stand him
LOL i thought it works on any gun with firefly.
That shit got me during a nightfall dude.
I was so pissed
Honestly I think that some times it is fun go intentionally use a "bad" option just to have the challenge. For example in the last SRL event I decided to try racing on the starting S-10 Sparrow for laughs and believe me I did when I started coming in first with it. I realized that everybody leaned pretty heavily on their sparrow abilities (Boost/Strafe/Tricks) to make up for mistakes but with the S-10 I had to change my racing style. I found that I could take turns much closer and faster than everybody else if I let off the throttle at the turns instead of relying in the strafe when at full speed. After getting used to the self inflicted nerfs I found winning on something like the SR1-Swiftriver almost too easy!
CustomChallenge I would like to race you. I used my sparrow abilities as a boost around corners rather than a correction tool, was first place a large majority of my races and many times anyone under 3rd couldnt finish(once not even 2nd got to finish idk how the hell I did that one)
CustomChallenge In the last iron banner, the vendor hand cannon you could make 4 in the mag with luck in the chamber. My friend and I both bought that and just weren't and dicked around in the crucible with it. It was nowhere near good, but it was fun getting reliable LitC procs
CustomChallenge or like the beginner weapon in D1 in the crucible.
I have been trying so hard to avoid any kind of news and spoilers about Destiny 2. Except from the Beta.
I think they are blowing everything and the game isnt out yet
Lumpy Gash They literally haven't even shown any content from Titan or Io
Lumpy Gash Prepare to be pretty behind on launch.
+hiblast629 that's what this video is talking about - discovery. Would you rather be told something or learn it on your own?
thewisesamgamgee Huh?
Lumpy Gash what the hell ? 0 content from the raid ,and ZERO content from titan or io ,not to mention very little of other strikes and almost no info on activities like weeklies ,nightfalls etc,what are you even saying
Was excited to hear what you had to say about this on the podcast, but was pretty annoyed at how hard you were cut off. Pretty good stuff in this as it got me thinking back through my history of Destiny, comparing the different guns I got.
Also, Dragon's Breath is super fun to use in raids, just to hear someone's confusion when they notice someone else using it :D
bringing up magic in any form usually gets a hard pass from the podcast members. ill probably just start talking about food to distract them from what im really talking about.
You put fun weapons in the thumbnail. I'm sad now.
mand0rk IKR? All of them too... Except maybe ZB....
JayDude003 ZB was one of my favorites actually. Max out its range, grab some HC reload gauntlets and get a firefly or lifestealer roll. My go to PvE HC actually, or it was until I got a PvE god roll Finalla's Peril.
JayDude003 what's ZB
Andrew Hooven zouli's bane
I hope your channel explodes with D2, you deserve it!
This video reminded me of the the things I love about destiny especially year one.
-Taking Patience and Time into nightfalls and being the last one alive to save my fireteam from a hard restart.
- Bad Juju and Obsiden Mind in the trall maze for Croats end
- pairing ophidian aspect with an ill will that only holds 3 rounds with luck in the chamber and outlaw for a reload so fast it looked like a glitch and did insane damage.
The best example I can think of was my love for Touch of malice. I loved the high risk, high reward play style that forced me to be more aware of my surroundings to take full advantage of the guns melting potential in pvp, and made me be aware of the enemies around me in pve. People can say the gun is bad, absolutely, but I loved it.
Great points made here overall, Holtz! We tend to get so hung up on/attached to our loadouts that we get tunnel-vision, when Bungie is doing their best to develop a huge list of options and possibilities for ways to play.
In D1 a ton of weapons were slept on. The weylorans march for example was the best sniper period with the highest aa and same shots to kill and high rate of fire. The only drawback was res snipes which weren't that common and weren't in many game modes. The grasp of Malik was slept on until the clever dragon came around and was overpowered for a year before they nerfed it. I rolled a fatebringer handcannon with firefly, outlaw, explosive rounds like fatebringer after it was removed. The highest rof rocket launchers with the right perks could carry 9 rockets at once with the right perks, carry 3 shots, and dish out the rockets very quickly with cluster bombs but everyone ignored them. I had an event horizon with casket mag which already had 4 in the mag and people still looked for exmachina. Claws of ahamkara + montecarlo was insane but nobody used it. Hardlight was amazing in the first encounter of crotas end because of over penetration and ricochet rounds. The pocket infinity was insanely powerful for killing enemies like knights or hordes of enemies like in the first encounter of crotas end. People assume things just because a RUclipsr said it.
I kept getting told I was using bad weapons, I liked the guns I used, I built my character around them. And I flourished with strategy, wits, and teamwork.
Any gun can be good if you open your mind to all your options.
My favourite hidden gem for Destiny 1 was a The Ash Factory with Tripod, Quickdraw and Grenades and Horseshoes.
I don't see many people carry that around, so I have no idea if it's good, but having 3 rockets in a launcher that usually has only 1 felt great.
I remember being told that "the first curse is trash in PVP don't waste your time on it". It fit in the type of weapon I liked, high Impact high damage, slow firing scouts and handcannons. I managed to shred people with it and it felt sooooo good.
This feels like the first video in quite a while that you've posted in which you were not salty. Thank God.
This video shows why you stand head and shoulders above the other Destiny RUclips reviewers! The uniqueness and intellectual depth that goes into your videos makes them highly rewarding to watch. Well done!
Once I reached max light in RoI and had acquired all the so-called 'best guns in the game' I set myself a mission to revisit all the weapons I'd previously dismissed as unviable. These included things like The DealBreaker, Telesto, Hakke snipers, Judith D, Hereafter and many others.Turns out, these are some of the best weapons in the game! For example, The DealBreaker I have is not a god-roll by any means but it is still one of my favourite guns throughout all of D1. Stability is crap, magazine is small, unattractive paint job, definitely challenging to use but man the sound of the thing is just heavenly! Great for late nights, after a few beers, just running around in patrol or strikes. I am very glad it was in the game.
Nice video btw Patrick
the only problem is exotics for me, some just don't feel special nor viable which is the exact opposite of what they should be, especially saw this when dark below dropped
Bungie always said the purpose of exotics were that they take a rule they they created in the game and break it. They were never meant to be "special" or even super powerful. Some of them end up actually becoming special and/or super powerful (Gjallarhorn, Dark Drinker, Raze Lighter, Sleeper, Thorn, etc.), but it's not done intentionally.
not being super powerful is absolutely fine, i said viable. Surely breaking a rule means special? All i mean is lack luster exotics that look unique but when it comes to perks dont even break rules
Dan Brenton exotics are supposed to be unique adding different way to do stuff to your kit they are not supposed to the best weapons and dominate everything else and personally that's how I like it
I totally agree, i just want them to be at least somewhat viable
whilst that is true, it still means some exotics are boring
I agree. Most people hate guns like ill will because it is "too unforgiving" or "too slow". I just like having the potential to 2-tap people in pvp or kill most red bar enemies with 1 headshot. It also has excellent range. This is countered by a sluggish reload speed and slow fire rate. It is a skill based weapon.
The what?
The point about people liking different guns is so true. I had a friend that only used his thorn in PVE in year 1. I tried to explain to him that the thorn perk wasn't even good for PVE and he just said, "I mean....I just like it."
My hidden gem was outbreak prime. I love that gun and have utterly destroyed in pvp with it.
Lord Shicon Doesn't it have the fastest ttk for pulse rifles?
Devon Santos no thats parthian shot. Plus hawksaw and a godroll grasp of malok can out perform it at range due to its low stabillity.
This is one of the reasons I love this game, as terrible as a gun may seem to be 99% of the time, one day, for some strike modifier or some crazy idea someone has to kill a raid boss.....all guns will become relevant and send us giddy with excitement checking our vaults to see if we still have it. That is why my vault is always full. Variety is the spice of life.
Your points about destiny are spot on. But the reason they print bad cards for magic is money. You have to buy the packs to get the cards you want. And they have to fill them with something so the buyer does not feel ripped off and buys other packs searching for that one card he needs. And it works. Speaking from experience. I probably spent over $5,000 back in 92-94. And that was on a high school part time job income.
Playstyle is, in my opinion, the biggest factor of all. I've been playing a game called Fortnite, where full-auto assault rifels are most popular right now. That has caused a bias where many players die repeatedly from being overwhelmed and the thought of popping off a single rocket launcher shot to clear a crowd of basic enemies never comes to mind.
I think the better question is why allow and continue to support large amounts of bad weapons? Make them better and increase the weapon load out possibilities and make the old bad weapons ok to use and strengthen there perks and power. Some weapons look really cool but just never work. Then you can have a weapon that you get as a starter and it just leads to a bad play experience for starters. For example the fastest auto rifles in d1 from green to blue sucked ass but the legendary ones were very good. This bad experience can lead players to never using that legendary auto because the old blue one was so bad.
A Nano Augmented Super Soldier From The Year2052 To Become god But Only After Fusing With Helios Exactly. Making bad weapons on purpose just destroys the whole idea of diversity. Of course people are going to cater towards the good weapons because they're easier to use. They could've just made everything good in their respective fields. Like hand cannons should be good in close range, auto rifles in medium and close, pulse rifles in medium and long, and scouts in medium, long, and very long range.
Really great video, made me think about it. Talking about odd weapons becoming a favorite for one person and not another, perks can match up based on controller sensitivity, for example, where a faster firing scout wouldn't be as effective for a player who takes that moment longer to line up their next shot. Play style has soooo many factors influencing it!
Remember when a developer said how the engine was very old that the Khostov was meant to be OP. My friend told me this btw
AmirBreakable Tv dont believe your friend again
Itz Toasstyy it was an interview so and it sounds believable
"Bad guns" are just bad because a lot of modern games have incredibly lazy inventory mechanics (as in: 2/3 gun slots and nothing else matters) and so instead of weapons creating interesting loadout options (some may be lighter, smaller or cheaper to maintain, things that almost never matter in modern shooters), some of them are just straight up bad because their damage output doesn't cut it.
The vex mythoclast was an amazing weapon before they nerfed it the first time because of PVP. It was like a heavy machine gun with a 78 round clip.
There is one more thing that kinda needs to be mentioned for Destiny or any loot based game in particular. Sometimes weapons and armor of all kinds ends up being bad or straight up trash to create a sense of progression, step by step. Like for example, if you only would have gotten all the god roll weapons that you wanted and those who generally speaking are aknowledged and considered as god roll for PvE and PvP, you would sooner than later get bored by the lack of ups and downs that your progression as a player is.
Anyone remember how we had the option to re-roll legendaries in House of Wolves and how it not only broke the PvP aspect of Destiny but also the PvE part? It didn't matter what roll you've got , all you had to do was play a certain strike playlist or Crucible matches until you got the gun you wanted and then you just went to the gunsmith and went through plenty of rerolls until you had what you wanted. It ruined the ups and downs experience that is supposed to make the good moments shine more than the bad ones because now every gun drop was fine. They had less of a value than before or after house of wolves.
Bad items sometimes mean that they are there for you to use for something else. In the case of Destiny, dismantling a gun would give you some legendary marks and a bit of currency and other materials that have value and use somewhere else. Even exotics can be ment to be both a bit of a silly fun tool to play with, but also an item that you don't necessary feel bad about dismantling early on in the game to get that shard. The game has an economy and it has to offer you some ways to give you access to the materials that you need , while also giving items that you already have a bit of a minimal value so that you don't feel like you completly wasted your time and efforts. Like for example you already have a Monte Carlo, but got a second one dropped. You don't really need that second MC so you dismantle it and get an exotic shard that you could use to increase the light level of your first Monte Carlo or any other exotic that you have or will have.
Ingame economy, a sense of progression and methods to make extra loot still worth getting can be often enough also be a reason for why sometimes Bungie or anyone other developer that made a loot based game adds in bad gear into their games.
Hey Patrick as a hunter main- do you think gunslinger is the obvious day 1 d2 choice? I love the arcstrider but I feel the orb generation possibilities and chains of woe allow a bit more team benefits. Am I wrong?? Arcstrider could be a great mob killer, guess we will see.
I agree, I remember getting Hard Light in year 1 and everyone talking about how bad it was. I loved how it reminded me of the old Halo assault rifle, so I played with it anyways. Once I mastered the recoil pattern, I had a blast with it doing patrols and bounties. It's all in how you choose to approach it
If I'm playing my Titan, I MUST have my Monte Carlo. If I'm playing my Hunter, I MUST have my MIDA Multi-Tool (for blade dancer and nighstalker) and my Last Word (for gunslinger). If I'm playing my Warlock, I MUST have my Red Death for PvE and either Bad Juju or Grasp of Malok for PvP.
What about the case of the designer's intentions being clear but the actual result having some critical flaw preventing it? Like the fighting lion would do what it was designed to do and be actually fun and effective JUST by boosting it's damage to shields by a bunch.
Sometimes we (players) choose weapon simply as a counter to the opponent(s). If an opposing fireteam is all running sidearm, my best option is to also use a sidearm or perhaps run a Hugh rate of fire autorifle. I don't particularly want to run an AR, but if 3x players rush with the wormword...a very high stabilized Soulstealers Claw can destroy.
No Joke, this is why I love competitive Pokémon Breeding and Battling. A LOT of Diversity, Theory Crafting, Discovery, Mastery, Hidden Gems! There really are some great insights in the article. Thanks for sharing!
Never really thought about the fact that, every weapon is not designed for me personally. Great video.
Example for this, when I first got dregs promise I was determined to be good with it because I heard it was terrible (you know surprise factor) but I didn't even have to try, I did very well with it immediately and my team was dumbfounded
There were a lot of weapons i used in d1 simply because they felt good to me, i never really felt like there was a "useless" weapon, which annoyed me when i would get yelled at in a raid for not using the optimal gun. The only thing i want in destiny is exotics being truly exotic. In ttk i used none of the new exotics (besides the swords) because none of them felt really exotic. They were all on par with or weaker than a legendary of the same archetype. Outbreak prime is a perfect example of an exotic feeling truly exotic. It had an awesome arg quest to get it, was a very unique weapon being a gun possessed by siva, and was a gun that performed well in both pvp and pve. It felt truly unique and exotic, and guns like that, the mythoclast, the dragons breath, the thorn, swords, all those guns that are designed uniquely, guns that are harder to get than just dropping from a strike or engram, guns that arent top tier but perform well enough to be valuable and used. So far the exotics in d2 are following this pattern. I mean, who knows whats hidden under the hood, but the 3 class exotics in the beta are guns that are unique and do feel pretty exotic, which gives me high hopes. Small side note too, 3oc better not returned. They diminished the value of exotics so much
In my pure opinion,
a lot of people don't use what are the weapons that suit their play style
but they look at what are people whom they see them as good players or RUclipsrs are using
"i like to place each of my individual shots"
*proceeds to use riskrunner*
My hidden gem was the chaperone and tolesto, guns that reward positioning and gunplay arent too common, as long as you can hit the other guy with a gun you win, with those two weapons it doesnt work like that. You need to be a trained sniper with the balls of a bladedancer to pull off both of these guns
Favorite scout rifle: Not Like The Others with Underdog, Triple Tap, and Explosive Rounds. Essentially, my boss destroyer provided I crit every shot.
Zaouli's Bane was part of an archetype that was made obsolete with Hand Cannon damage range falloff. Even the highest range and Rangefinder on those things were laughable thanks to Eyasluna and Palindrome. The only gun of that archetype that stood out was an Exotic: The Last Word, and that's because it was capable of firing faster than all those other guns.
Hell, if Bungie made it a high impact Hand Cannon, I'd probably have used it more since I loved its unique reload animation (shared only with the Dreg's Promise).
These info vids are amazing dude. You comparing magic logic used in video games is very informative.
FUCK YEAH MAGIC, just pulled 4 fatal pushes
I honestly don't know how you don't have more subs.
I've been subbed to you back when you were part of of planet destiny, before house below and your content had always been superb
I dont take the channel very seriously. I also dont want to cover the same news content everyone else does, which leads to a lot of down time when the content is dry. Which in turn leads to massive dropoffs in subscribers. Getting to be a massive channel isnt really the goal though. Current goal is 100k subs, and after that just hope I can make a living talking about game design and weapons.
I like the last few videos you've made Patrick. These pieces have been really well done. Keep up the good work!
I personally have always enjoyed the high impact low RoF Auto Rifles, specially my Shadow Price with Range Finder, Perfect Balance, & Counter Balance. I use it in both PVE & PVP. It will be hard to say goodbye to it when Destiny 2 releases.
I only have 2 counterpoints to this insight.
If a piece of gear that appeals to a player and their fantasy is bad, and there aren't alternatives to fill the role, they just end up disappointed and cynical.
Also, I don't think this works so well if there aren't enough competitive options by the end to make deep situations.
Outside of those concerns, I agree totally.
Some might disagree with me but personally one of my favorite exotics was The First Curse. Yeah it's stats are pretty bad but the perks on it make it so glorious. I would pair it with Chain of Woe and it would become a laser beam, which could hit like a truck at longer distances than the average hand cannon when it's perks were active...
I will miss you sweet prince.
This is going to get a lot of shit but exile student is a hidden gem of a gun the ability to three tap to the head faster than a luna could put out three shots gave you a edge if you could manage your shots and firerate paired with its ability to have explosive rounds and firefly made it a easy crowd killer. And honestly if bungie had nerfed the mid archetype of hand cannons instead of hand cannons as a whole more people would have had a chance to see that. But they making it so hand cannons need all range perks screwed diversity of hand cannons more than anything.
AceTheFox12 they literally couldn't they had to nerf them as a whole
Sam Miskiv I know, it was a problem with the engine as a whole. Which is why some guns started becoming unusable when they nerfed a exotic or two(fusions after some choice nerfs comes to mind)
These sort of commentaries are why I have sub to your vids. You give balanced and fair opinions, your game play isn't that shabby either.
Patrick this was so good, I’ve been watching your content since the planet destiny days and this might be my favourite video of yours. Awesome job, getting a game developer view of design decisions really offers a lot of insight.
Excellent work. To paraphrase some of it: Not all Destiny videos are for everyone.... but this one should be!
this was a great video another great video to check out if you are still curious is marginal mechanics and red herrings by extra credit it really helps shed some light on game design from a devs perspective and they cover more than just first person shoots
Really insightful video Pat. Keep up the good work dude, would love to see more like this one c:
I love exotic fusion rifles with a passion, each and every one of them I would rather use than any and every other weapon in destiny 1
michael singer I know, it's sad how Pocket Infinity was the only yr1 only exotic though
Ah, gone were the days of set rolls in d2. Current spare rations and mindbenders makes me want this back sometimes
While I can concede that something's will be better or worse than other things, everything should have a function. Everything should have something positive to be said about it (in any situation that's not purely progression based) beyond "It's better than that previous one you had".
This video was very informative! Keep up the good work!
Do you plan play on PC or stick it out with PS4/XB1? The PC version looks sooooo much cleaner in my opinion. I have never been a PC master racer myself, but after seeing the difference I can see why people are compelled to it.
Scrolling through the comments and seeing everyone talk about a specific weapon or load out, and then realize that you used First Curse, Crow’s Eye and a sword for the rest of your D1 play time.
Funny thing about dragons breath, one rocket hitting and burning a boss who is standing somewhat still, does more damage than gjallarhorn. Imagine how good that gun would be if the rocket set the target on fire from a direct hit instead of the ground so they can move away. Add an extra rocket or two to the inventory and up the reload speed, that's all it would take to make the most useless rocket launcher in the game into the most powerful. I'm not saying they should've done this, I just think it's a funny thought.
OK, different people have different gun preferences, and the developers design guns to be liked by different people. I get that, but what fucking person was the Anguish of Drystan designed for?
England is my Gender people with Parkinson's
That's what I'm saying man. There are raid weapons with with no appealing features at all.
Excellent video, couldn't be any better IMHO. You covered all the bases well, and for me this weapon ecosystem along with the various gameplay situations that warrants it are what make Destiny stand out.
I always just thought of it like this: If every gun is special, none of them are.
Ex: Cards against humanity is hilarious when you get a good combo... So me and my buddies took out all the boring cards, and found out the game isn't that funny when everyone has a hilarious combo. It started to get boring after a few turns.
no one seemed to like the bad juju but that was my favorite gun in pve. You almost never had to reload(refills clip on kill), it over-penetrated enemies, and it recharged your super with every kill. That to me seems broken af and i expected it to get nerfed, but never did
OMG, First Curse with Weapons of Light. I could use another powerful or even faster handcannon, but I love the way FC sounds..
Just on your first point, it is possible to get several archetypes of the same weapon type which are still competitive. A good example of this is that there are 3 archetypes out of 4 pulse rifles which can legitmately be considered competitive.
The Waltz/Grasp of Malok, Hawksaw/Suros PDX-45, and Parthian Shot are all different archetypes which are totally competitive. Therefore it's possible to have different archetypes with the same weapon types which are balanced and competitive......
Ldr and last word on a gunslinger was my shit
General Kenobi you are a bold one
The Devil You Don't was my first legendary weapon in Destiny 1. It's my favorite gun in the game, despite not being competitive.
A good listen/watch. Nothing really surprised me, but it was interesting to hear the philosophy behind it all.
I love the points that were made in this video. I feel like that is what has gone through my mind as D1 has developed and gone over so many changes to it meta. Thanks for that!
I was a god with the Tlaloc. That will always be my favorite exotic weapon, but, of course, only with the Warlock. And I think I was like one of 5 people who used the Boolean Gemini on a regular basis.
My favourite exotic in destiny has always been Super Good Advice.
I understand it's firmly in the ok category, but i just love it.
Fatebringer would have still been the best in a sandbox where hand-cannon bloom and range drop-off were so drastically different.
premising that I Understand that its your opinion, Dark souls is also meant to be enjoyed, the thrill of fighting a challenge, bettering yourself each time you die, and the satisfaction of overcoming that challenge, all aspects that make dark souls one of my top 5 games
I think a weapon for it to be considered "good" or "worth using" it needs at least 1 of 3 things: to be overall strong, situationally strong, or pure fun/challenging. If it is none of these than it is not worth using and may need adjustment.
Having fun guns and challenging guns are important for players that stick around playing the game for a long time.
I disagree that their needs to be bad guns to be good guns, it's just not how things must work. Rather every weapon can have it's own place with some better in more situations than others but all have areas of weakness and areas of strength, even just being super easy to use can make a weapon good.
I think this is one of the best videos you've made Holtz. Good work!
I hate the whole "You must use THIS loadout" culture Destiny has. I used to grab any green weapon from the Gunsmith during the first Hand Cannon meta and dunk on people just to prove a point
7:11: why so many people failed at raiding. They could've watched video walkthroughs after being pointed to them these things existed, but they couldn't or wouldn't be bothered to inform themselves. Worse, those folks even resented people telling them they needed that info.
"A positive rating"
**2008 flashbacks**
How do you promote discovery in a game where you have to level up or build around weapons though? The discovery argument works well in MTG because I can add and remove cards, then instantly get feedback. In Destiny I might get something that seems interesting at first glance, but when I try to use it it's not comparable to my other weapons due to light level or weapon exp difference (and I'm not about to sack everything I have to find out). Therefore, I'm often stuck randomly choosing whatever is highest level until the community as a whole decides on meta based on more interactions that are available to me.
Well done video, but I feel that a few points were over looked. Bungie has a history of nerfing entire gun categories into the ground, which some new guns DOA. There's also the lack of variety in terms of gun archetypes. That leads to many of them feeling the same, so adding something like an exotic with an effect is extremely situational on top of feeling like every other gun leads to it getting the title of "bad". Also, it's pretty much a fact that the games gun system has been tweaked towards PvP over everything, which means experimentation and power are limited by an expected time-to-kill. You can't make most of your guns "good" or "playable" while also wanting to keep their capabilities fairly even.
"telesto is bad" *laugs in 1 shotting nova warp* (28.1.19, may you rot in hell, telesto!)
Thats why the ice breaker is broken, you cant compete with with a regenerative ammo, you cant compete with a campy weapon, ice breaker became a REQUIREMENT in the meta of the vault of glass.
Glad to see people are getting Adds again!
So when are the good exotic pulse rifles coming back to the game? Bad Juju or No time to explain would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe I'm one of the few people that appreciated the Telesto, but I rocked the hell out of it. Never touched my vault unless I was swapping to another character. I'm glad they experiment.
My favorite weapon ever is Monte Carlo. I'm not really that good so having the most competitive weapon doesnt matter for me. I love the design and i love its perk. Im a gunslinger and not half bad with the throwing knife. So anything that reduces the knife cooldown is good. Pair that exotic perk with the FR0ST-EE5 which reduces cooldowns while i sprint, and i get actually a very low cooldown for my knife. I really appreciate this video because it reminds me that I still have a ton of fun with Destiny pvp using a loadout that wouldnt see a sliver of actual competitive play :)