One thing that is not being taken into account in regards to the vintage pop counts for graded is not taking to account the very inflated numbers due to cards that have been cracked out and resubmitted trying to get a higher grade. No one truly knows the real baseline pop numbers for accuracy.
One other point I forgot to mention was also that when grading began over 30 years ago it was pretty much specifically geared toward vintage so the vast majority of vintage was submitted over the past 30 years to now, there isn’t a lot of raw high profile vintage cards of iconic players floating around any longer. Even with lower production modern, it is quite likely there is a lot of raw cards out there that would not be graded until someone was preparing to sell them
@@mcap8396 that is very true/good point. I was meaning that in comparison to say the pop counts as it pertains to modern serial number type of cards/runs 🙌🏻
These arguments are literally apples and oranges. It’s not that vintage is “rare” or they all have a low total pop count - the rarity is finding them in semi-decent condition. And for modern it’s not so much the print run of a particular card - it’s the insane amount of brands/parallels that water down market. I wanted to buy a super high end ohtani card to “invest” in but my head hurt trying to single one out…
I think the biggest difference in the vintage vs. modern collector is mindset. GENERALLY, the vintage collector is buying to own and consume/enjoy the card. It SEEMS that collectors that deal only in modern/ultra modern cards are doing a lot more flipping, trading up, and its more of a ‘hustle’ to ultimately build value. It is much more difficult to acquire a low grade, high eye appeal T206 Cobb than its “rarer” modern counterpart, because most of those Cobbs are sitting in very sticky long-term collections. By contrast, modern/ultra modern collections are turning over and coming to market more frequently. Also worth noting that values of the prewar greats has held up fine, as the modern market continues to correct considerably. p.s. Major League Baseball attendance and viewership is UP, not down this year
Vintage cards have higher quantities of graded cards because collectors grade entire sets of vintage. Look at the graded pop counts of individual cards in vintage sets. The commons and minor stars are graded hundreds of times each. Collectors do not grade commons and minor stars of modern.
Nobody ever said the ‘33 Goudey Ruth cards were “super rare”. Heck, they’re not even rare. I see at least one at every card show. In fact, there are 35 graded on eBay right now. Not sure who is saying these are rare. It’s easy to make up a counterpoint to an untrue premise.
Ive been investing in cards based solely on this philosophy. Understanding who will be relevant for future collectors is the bases of market supply and demand. Demand for cards of players who are no longer relevant like vintage baseball players will impact their prices. You covered the demand cycle brilliantly in this video and anyone critical of your philosophy will be on the wrong side of history. Great video🙏
I'm sorry but Geoff you sound way too 100% sure confidence in your opinions. What you say isn't proven or factual. You could be misleading people with conversations like this.
I don’t think anyone ever claimed any Goudey card was rare except the Nap Lajoie. It’s absurd to say they are rare. But rare and value don’t always affect price. The 52 Mantle isn’t rare either for instance.
Vintage cards are a better investment , Modern cards have many risk overproduction and Injuries its very simple and Vintage cards most players have already proven themselves .
So there are fewer 2009 Topps/Topps Chrome Steph Curry cards in the pop report vs. 1933 Goudey Ruths. Now tell us how many total Babe Ruths of any make or year there are vs. Steph Curry cards of all makes and years. Babe Ruth didn't have very many cards, period. There weren't many manufacturers of vintage cards. Most years, you had one or two sets to choose from. Modern has literally dozens of sets to choose from. This is a ridiculous take and happens to come on the heels of Geoff's vintage for Steph Curry six figure trade. Give me a break.
Nobody who knows vintage is claiming a t206 or Goudey card is rare. Ruth has multiple cards that have a pop under 25. For instance his 27 honey boy has a pop of 7. Geoff keep buying manufactured scarcity cards.It’s done you well. 🤦🏼♂️Leave the vintage to the collectors
This is such a straw-man argument. Seriously, if anybody's retirement investment plan consists of PSA 3 1957 Topps Ted Kluszewskis, please raise your hand!
All affordable modern for the regular person is overprinted... the reality is you have to pay either a premium for the card or the hobby box just to have a chance to obtain one of these "rare" modern cards... just not affordable for the regular person.
Here's a question: which pop report is less accurate, the Ruth or the Curry's? I would guess the Ruth, as it's had more time to be cracked and resubbed. But, - if, somehow - the Curry's are more liquid, worth more on average, and have had much more volume in sales over the past 6,7 years, than it might be a wash.
When I hear people complaining about ultra modern, all I hear is “ i dont own a ton of numbered rare cards of my liking , but I have a bunch of silver, base , and easier pulled non numbered colored variations.”Everyone in this chat has pulled and most likely has more base cards than numbered. And those that have more numbered than base are not complaining about the many variations. Lol interesting world we live in. “ so many variations” - same person pulls 1/1 worth 30k sells and now only Buys rare limited cards. Lol see the truth in what I’m saying people 👍
Great exercise in naming the guys from the 1950s! I think at the time everyone considered Jackie Jensen to be a generational player. You can roll time forward and backward, and only hindsight is 20/20. It shows how much of a gamble modern is - but then again, taking a flier on a player before they become an all-time great is likely the best way to make money (and think you are smart) in the hobby.
You compared Al Kaline, a first ballot Hall of Famer with Jackie Jenson, Early Wynn, Teddy K., Minnie Minoso? WOW! Really?! Just sell your Kaline collection to me...
His point is that Al Kaline is not considered or perceived as a ‘Goat’ even though he’s better than all those players he’s named. His point is that the GOATS or perceived GOATS (Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Gehrig, etc) will always be sought out by even the casual collectors. I know who Al Kaline is, you know, but alot of collectors (probably younger) don’t know who he is. Geoff is essentially saying the 2nd tier Hall of Famers who aren’t perceived as a Ruth or Mays may suffer in the future because younger collectors don’t gravitate to them. I think Frank Robinson is a perfect candidate. Probably one of the most underrated players in the history of MLB, yet his card values are much cheaper than it should be. Those are the guys who Geoff is essentially saying may suffer in the future regarding vintage.
Again and again people won’t even say hmm let’s see if modern cards will be worth more , people are quick to say no yet history repeats its self over n over , every year cards enhance production changes and limited in quantities , sure multiple brands … I’d rather have multiple brands than have a rc card printed 150,000+ times in the past like in the early 90’s 👀 I mean LITERALLY the most expensive card sold is from 1950, that’s 50 plus years since the first production of cards. I WOULD considered that ultra modern (in those times)compared to the 1900’s but hey to each is his own opinion lol
Ahhhh this show hurts my mind!!!!!A HOT BLONDE TALKING STRAIGHT FIRE ABOUT VINTAGE AND ULTRA MODERN.........😶🤔🤯🥰..ps don't get happy Geoff I ment her...lol
If you fully believe that there is less scarcity to authentic 1933 baseball cards than modern cards because a man on the internet said it… I’m sad for you.
Dude if you brush her up on the other sports and put her n her own show she will blow up!!!!we need a nice lady in the hobby im tired of looking at more me,s all the time on these videos....if she's not a real card person she can fake it till she makes it....give it a try you,ll see..
This video was on point. People in the comments saying this won't age well just keep buying the same vintage that you think is rare and when you lose money in the future just make sure you apologize to Geof!
This video won’t age well. Leave the vintage for me, thank you.
Lol yeah right modern over vintage
No worries dude, the 1978 Topps base is all yours 😂
@@johnniejayand we save the Zions and chumps for you...👍we all win...😮
@@johnniejay talking real vintage, what I show on my channel
@@brianfrench5814 Real vintage rules, like the vintage I show on my channel
Nice piercing…
One thing that is not being taken into account in regards to the vintage pop counts for graded is not taking to account the very inflated numbers due to cards that have been cracked out and resubmitted trying to get a higher grade. No one truly knows the real baseline pop numbers for accuracy.
One other point I forgot to mention was also that when grading began over 30 years ago it was pretty much specifically geared toward vintage so the vast majority of vintage was submitted over the past 30 years to now, there isn’t a lot of raw high profile vintage cards of iconic players floating around any longer. Even with lower production modern, it is quite likely there is a lot of raw cards out there that would not be graded until someone was preparing to sell them
Can be said for desirable cards of all eras
@@mcap8396 that is very true/good point. I was meaning that in comparison to say the pop
counts as it pertains to modern serial number type of cards/runs 🙌🏻
These arguments are literally apples and oranges. It’s not that vintage is “rare” or they all have a low total pop count - the rarity is finding them in semi-decent condition. And for modern it’s not so much the print run of a particular card - it’s the insane amount of brands/parallels that water down market. I wanted to buy a super high end ohtani card to “invest” in but my head hurt trying to single one out…
I think the biggest difference in the vintage vs. modern collector is mindset. GENERALLY, the vintage collector is buying to own and consume/enjoy the card. It SEEMS that collectors that deal only in modern/ultra modern cards are doing a lot more flipping, trading up, and its more of a ‘hustle’ to ultimately build value.
It is much more difficult to acquire a low grade, high eye appeal T206 Cobb than its “rarer” modern counterpart, because most of those Cobbs are sitting in very sticky long-term collections. By contrast, modern/ultra modern collections are turning over and coming to market more frequently.
Also worth noting that values of the prewar greats has held up fine, as the modern market continues to correct considerably.
p.s. Major League Baseball attendance and viewership is UP, not down this year
I’d say 2,000 of the 7,500 Babe Ruth’s were cracked and resubmitted.
Vintage cards have higher quantities of graded cards because collectors grade entire sets of vintage. Look at the graded pop counts of individual cards in vintage sets. The commons and minor stars are graded hundreds of times each. Collectors do not grade commons and minor stars of modern.
Nobody ever said the ‘33 Goudey Ruth cards were “super rare”. Heck, they’re not even rare. I see at least one at every card show. In fact, there are 35 graded on eBay right now. Not sure who is saying these are rare. It’s easy to make up a counterpoint to an untrue premise.
Ive been investing in cards based solely on this philosophy. Understanding who will be relevant for future collectors is the bases of market supply and demand. Demand for cards of players who are no longer relevant like vintage baseball players will impact their prices. You covered the demand cycle brilliantly in this video and anyone critical of your philosophy will be on the wrong side of history. Great video🙏
I'm sorry but Geoff you sound way too 100% sure confidence in your opinions. What you say isn't proven or factual. You could be misleading people with conversations like this.
I don’t think anyone ever claimed any Goudey card was rare except the Nap Lajoie. It’s absurd to say they are rare. But rare and value don’t always affect price. The 52 Mantle isn’t rare either for instance.
Messi is the goat of all sports! Great take and video! Cheers!
She's so attractive
Vintage cards are a better investment , Modern cards have many risk overproduction and Injuries its very simple and Vintage cards most players have already proven themselves .
Problem is you don't know what the print run is until after years later
These interviews are better when you have someone who can challenge you.
Agree. No depth and literally repeats back to what he says and struggles to re-word it
@sportscardradio is gonna love this episode
So there are fewer 2009 Topps/Topps Chrome Steph Curry cards in the pop report vs. 1933 Goudey Ruths. Now tell us how many total Babe Ruths of any make or year there are vs. Steph Curry cards of all makes and years. Babe Ruth didn't have very many cards, period. There weren't many manufacturers of vintage cards. Most years, you had one or two sets to choose from. Modern has literally dozens of sets to choose from. This is a ridiculous take and happens to come on the heels of Geoff's vintage for Steph Curry six figure trade. Give me a break.
Nobody who knows vintage is claiming a t206 or Goudey card is rare. Ruth has multiple cards that have a pop under 25. For instance his 27 honey boy has a pop of 7. Geoff keep buying manufactured scarcity cards.It’s done you well. 🤦🏼♂️Leave the vintage to the collectors
This is such a straw-man argument. Seriously, if anybody's retirement investment plan consists of PSA 3 1957 Topps Ted Kluszewskis, please raise your hand!
Manufactured scarcity, How many /5, /10, /25, /50, /100 etc .. are there of each of these guys?
All affordable modern for the regular person is overprinted... the reality is you have to pay either a premium for the card or the hobby box just to have a chance to obtain one of these "rare" modern cards... just not affordable for the regular person.
Here is a point that I don't think you guys touched on. If you had more time to grade the cards you are going to have more of them graded right?
Grading is more money-consuming than time-consuming. Also, you need to have cards worthy of grading.
Appreciate your videos and input as always.
Here's a question: which pop report is less accurate, the Ruth or the Curry's? I would guess the Ruth, as it's had more time to be cracked and resubbed. But, - if, somehow - the Curry's are more liquid, worth more on average, and have had much more volume in sales over the past 6,7 years, than it might be a wash.
Steph will NEVER be remembered the way Lebron is remembered. And I am not a Lebron fan.
When I hear people complaining about ultra modern, all I hear is “ i dont own a ton of numbered rare cards of my liking , but I have a bunch of silver, base , and easier pulled non numbered colored variations.”Everyone in this chat has pulled and most likely has more base cards than numbered. And those that have more numbered than base are not complaining about the many variations. Lol interesting world we live in.
“ so many variations” - same person pulls 1/1 worth 30k sells and now only
Buys rare limited cards. Lol see the truth in what I’m saying people 👍
The numbers supported the trade. I would've have done the same BUT that 51 Mantle 😭😭
No more 1933 cards are being ripped. Can't say the same about 2009 topps.
Ben Roethlesberger’s card value is soft because of the quantity. It was from the middle of the junk wax era.
i wouldnt touch his cards, unless i live in PA
Great exercise in naming the guys from the 1950s! I think at the time everyone considered Jackie Jensen to be a generational player. You can roll time forward and backward, and only hindsight is 20/20. It shows how much of a gamble modern is - but then again, taking a flier on a player before they become an all-time great is likely the best way to make money (and think you are smart) in the hobby.
Love the shows and topics. Please get a better co-host.
You compared Al Kaline, a first ballot Hall of Famer with Jackie Jenson, Early Wynn, Teddy K., Minnie Minoso? WOW! Really?!
Just sell your Kaline collection to me...
His point is that Al Kaline is not considered or perceived as a ‘Goat’ even though he’s better than all those players he’s named.
His point is that the GOATS or perceived GOATS (Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Gehrig, etc) will always be sought out by even the casual collectors. I know who Al Kaline is, you know, but alot of collectors (probably younger) don’t know who he is.
Geoff is essentially saying the 2nd tier Hall of Famers who aren’t perceived as a Ruth or Mays may suffer in the future because younger collectors don’t gravitate to them. I think Frank Robinson is a perfect candidate. Probably one of the most underrated players in the history of MLB, yet his card values are much cheaper than it should be. Those are the guys who Geoff is essentially saying may suffer in the future regarding vintage.
Again and again people won’t even say hmm let’s see if modern cards will be worth more , people are quick to say no yet history repeats its self over n over , every year cards enhance production changes and limited in quantities , sure multiple brands … I’d rather have multiple brands than have a rc card printed 150,000+ times in the past like in the early 90’s 👀
I mean LITERALLY the most expensive card sold is from 1950, that’s 50 plus years since the first production of cards. I WOULD considered that ultra modern (in those times)compared to the 1900’s but hey to each is his own opinion lol
I thought she was Taylor Misiak from the show Dave with Lil Dicky lmao
Ahhhh this show hurts my mind!!!!!A HOT BLONDE TALKING STRAIGHT FIRE ABOUT VINTAGE AND ULTRA MODERN.........😶🤔🤯🥰..ps don't get happy Geoff I ment her...lol
This was very eye opening to learn the print runs on these old vintage cards that are not as rare as people think.
If you fully believe that there is less scarcity to authentic 1933 baseball cards than modern cards because a man on the internet said it… I’m sad for you.
Don’t confuse print runs with population reports. Two WAY different things.
I feel dumber having watched this.
😂
Dude if you brush her up on the other sports and put her n her own show she will blow up!!!!we need a nice lady in the hobby im tired of looking at more me,s all the time on these videos....if she's not a real card person she can fake it till she makes it....give it a try you,ll see..
There’s still time to delete this…
why would he delete this?
Just loaded with bad takes / bad advice, imho
@Mike Mags 😮 really why?
Where do I even begin… lol
stupid. u keep this video up
This video was on point. People in the comments saying this won't age well just keep buying the same vintage that you think is rare and when you lose money in the future just make sure you apologize to Geof!
The only one saying vintage is rare is Geoff. The majority of vintage is still in raw form. Pop counts across the board will keep increasing.
Did he say vintage is rare?
Geoff, just some constructive criticism...You should do this solo. The interviewer, no matter who it is, is clunky and forced.
Definitely mantle over messi. I think soccer will loss its popularity in a few years in the US
Agreed. I’m shocked soccer is still a sport in the US. My wife went to one of my kid’s games and was so bored she never went to another one.
Soccer is a much better sport than Baseball. Baseball is boring. Must of them can't connect with the ball. Rounders is a better sport than Baseball
Totally agree that soccer is better than baseball. But it will never touch the status of football and basketball
@@ratedrstar8393 Unfortunately not as the market is Americanised.