Does Corrin actually kill anyone in the Conquest Route?
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- Опубликовано: 6 янв 2022
- this video was originally supposed to be 3 minutes long goddamn it
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the video probably has some mistakes but please excuse them because conquest's story itself is the biggest mistake of all
At the pause at 1:49 I accidentally deleted a clip, I say something along the lines of "In chapter 9 Corrin invades Fort Dragonfall and fights some Hoshidan Soldiers" not gonna re-render and reupload just for that I'm too tired for that
Conquest's story had potential. I'm sure if the story wasn't cut from 700+ pages to a post-it, the story might have been a great one.
@@whitefri2z It's actually probably around at _least_ 1,500-ish pages. Shin Kibayashi wrote 500 pages of script for Birthright _alone,_ and wrote an "equal amount" for Conquest and Revelation - thus, totaling around 1,500. Fates had so much ludicrous potential that it's criminal Nintendo didn't give them more time.
It'll still have a dear place in my heart, though - and makes me very hopeful for a remake.
when takumi jumps off the wall you didn't count it as a suicide despite him stating at the end that he died during that scenario,
What are you talking about
He murdered friendly neighborhood furys in cold blood
That's at least 1% of the fury population
What about paralogues there's no way nameless or a face plastered on a class count as non deaths
Probably should have put suicide loophole on ch23 when Takumi jumps to probably death.
This becomes even more confusing when you consider that Corrin becomes bloodthirsty in the Kana paralogue, even saying that she will soak the fields with the blood of her enemies. What a peaceful lass.
Note: Do not threaten Corrin chil’.
Nah, waging war for the sake of your kid is totally understandable even from a pacifist viewpoint. I'd say that was the only moment when he was truly human character instead of a pansy chimpanzee.
most paralogues are against valite soldiers which don't really count because they're more like ghosts
Not to mention that they’re valite soldiers, they don’t even bleed.
To be a little fair, all bets were off when the Valite soldiers were invading Kana's pocket dimension
Edit: I've recently S supported Peri in a Conquest file. I get to bonding and all she says is "Your body count is as high as mine!" Now I have more questions.
It is amazing that the only time corrin explicitly HAS to actually kill someone (given Garon and Takumi don't count since they already are dead) is the fucking furry map
Good. Furries are the bane of society
Honestly doing the same thing to the werewolf furries in birthright makes more sense since they actually eat people.
@@GreatSikoTM W-wait...
so that's what intelligent systems think of me...
@@appelofdoom8211except the Wolfskin were actually willing to let us pass peacefully until Iago sabotaged us.
Chad Leo doesn't care and kills everyone in Corrin's stead
Corrin the rest of the game: kills barely anyone/doesn't kill
Corrin in chapter 19: commits genocide
it's a fine line i know it myself
This is a certified Heron classic.
Bruh what about every playable units? Almost everyone died.
And it has to be against the explicit kemonomimis. So of course Corrin had some Tellius influence there
It can't be called genocide if he's attacked first.
If I had a nickel for every time Corrin’s purity is preserved by suicide I would have two nickels, which isn’t a lot its just weird that it happens twice.
Three if you count Takumi who thought being killed by Nohrians to be a massive insult to his honor.
Honestly Ryoma's death was kinda a waste
If the MF would just listen
He wouldn't have felt the need nor would Corrin have had to do it per se
Dude is just stubborn as hell
@@The_Somewhere_Monarch Tbf he was already dead before he jumped, him bursting with purple energy is meant to show us his possession being complete, and we know from garon that it's the equivalent of being killed
You can spare Shura
You can argue that the real Garon and Takumi are dead before Corrin puts down the monsters possessing their bodies.
So basically, Corrin hates furries in general and Kaden in particular
You *can* spare Shura. Technically you ca also choose not do the Conquest route at all. The point is that by choosing those routes it creates weird tonal inconsistencies (moreso with the former).
And really even assuming there were no red squares, the main takeaway seems to be the massive amount of yellow squares indicating the story gets increasingly contrived to make Corrin not a killer.
Corrin: But Leo, I don't want to kill anyone, that's bad.
Leo: What about the foxes?
Corrin:FUCK THOSE FOXES!
Corrin actually from Begnion confirmed
A skilled Corrin can kill any Fox
Were-foxes have no souls similar to furries in real life. It is merely wild life management if one kills one. For furries though it is simply keeping the human species pure from contamination.
@@BrutusAlbion you watched furry apocalypse and side with the crusaders didn't you Lmao?
@@Dr.Hypo101 Men of culture such as us understand these difficult matters.
This sounds like a distorted story that was manipulated by the winner of the war. Corrin surely became a supreme dictator and wrote history into this nonsensical mess of a series of events. Makes you wonder what really happened during the war.
My head canon is that Azura became a traitor later on and that's why Corrin made her "disappear". Also, the $20 dlc is nothing but Corrin's guilty conscience making up a what-if story.
Corrin learned well from the ways of the Tyrannical King Marth. So much so that Corrin had to include an adventure with him serving under his army as a disposable pawn to open doors with.
I don't understand why killing Shura is even an option lol. Corrin won't kill enemy soldiers but will murder Shura for no strategic gain at all and a pair of boots.
But those are high quality boots tho
>no strategic gain
>pair of boots
you JUST contradicted yourself
They should’ve not included the option and have him give you the boots as thanks for letting him live. Then, instead of Corrin wiping Mokushu out for keeping Hoshidan POW, have Kotaro recognize Shura among their ranks and attack Corrin’s army for that.
@@mathmatticool or if they wanted to keep the playable character vs boots choice just have it be a choice between releasing Shura (maybe have Leo recruit him as a spy or something) or forcing him to work for you directly.
Hans, the psychopathic mass murderer: *exists*
Corrin: "nah"
A rando thief:
Corrin: "My lust for murder cannot be contained."
Fates: our characters are morally good and don't kill people.
Three Houses: our characters are morally questionable and definitely have killed many, many, many people.
3H Chapter 2 is just amazing on portraying that.
People like Lindhart and Marianne who definitely despised having to kill.
The Lords, (and maybe Lorenz and Ferdinand) who are battle seasoned and aware of the horror of the battlefield, but also of their responsibilities.
Hubert and Felix who hold no problem in the battlefield.
Bernie and Ashe, who are glad to have survived.
And then we have Annette, Leonie and Raphael who are happy to see their training pay off.
Eh, I think even that's a stretch, because Hoshido and Nohr all have at least _some_ very morally dubious characters. Niles, Charlotte, Peri, Camilla, Keaton and Beruka definitely killed, and Hoshido has Saizo, Oboro, Reina and Ryoma (need I remind you him feigning ignorance relative to Corrin's relation to him + manipulating Corrin to try to come back with him by blackmailing over Elise). Hell, to the game's credit, there _is_ an acknowledgement of how the losing side pretty much despises Corrin for their betrayal in either BR and CQ.
Obviously, this is assuming a detachment from writing quality, but really, Fire Emblem in itself always had these kinds of characters even in the more black-and-white entries. I think for that reason it's pretty hard to assume that Fates' openly states "our characters are morally good" when you're already participating in possibly the most pointless war (morally speaking) in the series - something that'd be legitimately _really_ interesting to see if it actually had the time to go into detail.
Thracia: "Waste of good equipment, I say. Men, let's NOT commit war crimes and instead become as unto Meteor and Rewarp gods." "Wait, our army has a dude that straight-up tortured villagers, how are we committing fewer war crimes than everyone else."
And this storytelling in 3h is exactly why it's my fave in the series
Shoutouts to Azura-Corrin supports. In C, Corrin explicitly says he's killed multiple Hoshidan soldiers (so not counting the Ganglari explosion), and in the B support he ends a man's life on screen.
See this could have been a character moment. Corrin, having grown up completely sheltered, orders his troops to fight nonlethally… and gets his shit kicked in and a ton of them killed. That could be the start Corrin slowly growing cold and pragmatic in Conquest until they realize that they’re about to order a bunch of civilians executed, like Hans or Iago. They could have had an actual character arc.
Nope can't have that. No war crimes in our Fire Emblem game. Absolutely zero. Don't think about it.
That's a good idea, it would have made Corrin a character with a nice evolution and would have made Conquest's story good and not some lie like the marketing stated
Don’t be silly. Fire Emblem doesn’t have character development.
That's great, you could even have the moment where they are about to kill some civilians be a choice and the dialogue and even Corrin's own development could change depending on your choice.
But that requires having the protagonist be a character.
I kinda wish they made Corrin's supposed pacifism bite him in the ass. Like, he would spare Reina early on leading to an entire Nohrian base getting slaughtered, and I mean *slaughtered,* by her a few chapters later.
Similarly, Birthright should have had Corrin's kill-count be quite high and leave it just as bittersweet as Conquest.
Meanwhile in awakening
Chrom: its sad but our only choice is to kill or die
Robin: yes
Corrin: fuck those foxes.
Robin: fuck those warships.
@@SorenToKeiran-Murasaki those warships had families!
Corrin sigma grindset : hold nothing back and brutally kill subhuman cats
No, when their hp reaches 0, he tucks them into bed, reads them a bedtime story and gives them forehead kissies before moving on to the next chapter to do the same
One kill that was missed:
-Corrin explicitly kills a Hoshidan in one of their and Azura’s support convos, the second, I believe.
You could argue that since this support is optional, it isn’t official, but since Shura is recorded, I think it’s worth mentioning this as well.
The saddest victims of this war were Iago, a loyal vassal to the end, Hans "One-swing Dragonslayer", a reformed criminal who fought for his country, and Zola, the one who could have ended this war if it wasn't for those filthy traitors and their self-serving concept of honor.
It would’ve been a good plot point to have Corrin actually consider Zola’s plan as it would’ve ended the war quicker and with less casualties. This make Corrin have to decide between minimizing casualties or his love for his “siblings” both of which are the main parts of his character. But of course Leo has to come in and absolve him of any agency.
Zola and Kotaro were done so damn dirty wtf
@@kingandcountry1242 the funny thing with Zola, is that that’s one of the chapters where it’s implied the characters you’re fighting actually die/get killed. Because I imagine if they really wanted to cover up their treason they’d have to kill every loyal Nohrian involved.
Zola always gets the short end of the stick.
Tbh I always felt like Zola shoulda been a playable character, he basically gets converted to your side on the main routes (I know he backstabs you, but he also backpedals again). I just thought he would've been a fun, uncharacteristic unit to use.
Nohr Corrin: It is evil to kill.
Hoshido Corrin: KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!!
Honestly, to the game's credit, the fact the "good" nation has such a vengeful Corrin is a perfect duality, especially when the war itself is really fucked up. I wish they explored that more.
Hoshido Corrin has the right idea, since most Nohrians aren't worth living.
Corrin: "Killing people is wrong... but Nohrians ain't people."
Corrin is the small inversion, the yin within the yang, or yang within the yin.
I vaguely recall one Eliwood conversation where he brings up being able to kill the enemy in front of him, but mostly the excesses of a large war/families weigh on him. And of course three houses really rubs in all the killing you do, including Baby’s first bandit. I also saw a Rolf convo in how he reflects his first kill ended his childhood.
Most games just imply killing is just unavoidable when it comes to combat, and everyone is medieval enough to not dwell on it too much. All the death or victory honorbound characters kind of tick because defeat tends to be lethal.
Three houses kind of cheats with bosses often, but those all fairly hardy people who the story implies aren’t ready to go all out when not killed. When they do go all in, they die. Claude/Edelgard are also mentioned to need a few months to heal up from their defeats at Gronder.
I actually like when a Fire Emblem game can have a boss encountered multiple times. I think the reason it tends to rub people the wrong way is that normally in FE when somebody's health bar reaches 0 they are permanently dead. This goes for players and enemies alike, and it would probably better if you could actually tell they were injured other than a line like "I have been defeated and must retreat". For example, what if bosses came back a few chapters later missing a limb, or an eye? Or covered in scars? Idk I just think it would be cool to have some kind of continuity considering they often dedicate a whole chapter to fighting somebody only to seem like it didn't really matter.
One of the reasons i like Eliwood so much is that exact conversation. It’s refreshing to have someone pragmatic enough to understand killing is necessary and struggle with the knowledge the body count adds up and affects others, whereas usually its the other way around for protagonists and they understand it’s for the best but struggle taking the life of the person in front of them. It’s certainly better than some holier than thou twit who acts like shedding a drop of blood means they’ll deserve death.
@@300IQPrower Also fe7 is the only game in which doesn’t have a large scale war. It comes closest during the Laus arc of course. Eliwood’s disgust at the war preparations is what causes the conversation to begin with.
@@MegaScytheman IIRC FE10 sort-of does this, albeit not quite to the extent you're talking about. If you look closely at the Black Knight's halfbody portrait in that game, there's a HUGE gouge in his armor that was presumably caused by his duel with Ike in FE9. From this, we can infer that there's probably a ludicrous amount of scarring on his chest (although it's never actually *shown* since he's covered from head to toe in plate armor.)
@@MegaScytheman So, like in Shadows of Mörder?
Edit: Mordor
The moral of the story is: Corrin really hates furries.
But he has a furry friend! How can he possibly hate furries?
Corrin is Laguzphobic
Ike didn't like that
Who doesn't? :P
@@TheAxeLord47911
I’d say ‘other furries’, but they get the Beastbane skill, so nevermind.
@@AzumarillConGafasBv shinon really liked that...
C support unlocked
All of this is in stark contrast to Birthright, where Corrin has exactly zero compunctions about ruthlessly slaughtering the Nohrian army. Because consistent character traits are overrated, I guess.
It’s because westerners evil.
Like that’s not even a meme Nohr is officially equated to Europe. The story is literally good asians vs evil westerners, and they feel a need to make it “””nuanced””” when fighting against Hoshido but pure good vs pure evil if you’re fighting Nohr.
I guess the motivations are different. In Conquest he is working against the country he is in, and allied with them for the time. So he kills as few enemies as possible to kill Garon in the end.
In Birthright he rejoins his "birth family" after he finds out he got kidnapped and raised by some comically evil guy, watches them kill his mother figure not too long after meeting her and then he decides to side with them.
Ig it is more a testament to the decision you make as the player, a Corrin who sides with Nohr wants as little death as possible as he sees himself and Nohr partly in the wrong as well. A Corrin who decides to side with Hoshido is ready to get vengeance against foes.
@@CM-os7ie yeah I think it's something like this.
Like IIRC what food Silas says is Corrin's favorite also changes based on the route
If you exclusively fight with Niles’ capture, including Einherjar or Orochi, you can avoid killing anyone in gameplay, except against inhuman monsters like Faceless, Vallites or those disgusting Kitsune.
So long story short, Conquest Corrin hates furries
I mean… They like Keaton
As any Lord with a stable brain should.
I'm going to be as generous as possible and say that early on Corrin tries their best to keep themselves absolved because early on you do a lot of Garon's Evil Errands (TM) that corrin doesnt actually want to do, but later on when its more into the "all out war with Garon/Iago/Hans present" phase of the story this becomes impractical and while still attempting to do the best they can by sparing the wounded and minimizing casualties, they do end up killing people but it's thought of as at least understandable because the "Corrin patented nonlethal approach" doesnt work on such a large scale
idk abt the kitsune though. Maybe they just felt it was weird they kept playing the no-kill corrin card and wanted to put corrin doing something morally reprehensible SOMEWHERE so they stuck it in the middle
Birthright Corrin though? Nah, good old BRC has no problems with killing people at all, because all the Nohrians deserved it, probably.
With the Kitsune, it really is just for Tradgedy Points.
It's tragic that you had to wipe a tribe that may or may not be the last of their kind off the face of the earth, therefore it has to go down that way
Implying killing all furries is morally reprehensible in the first place
friendly spar with fuga where your units actually die
Corin is innocent from killing anybody, and his army were just following orders. Truly the perfect Alibi for his war crimes.
Charles Manson moment
I never understood why they try to justify Corrin never killing anyone, like, sure in other games they don't explicitly mention the kill count, but that's a relatively normal thing if you're going into a battle by battle war
It's really unnatural the way they made Corrin out to be some kind of massive scale pacifist
To be fair the other games often made it much more explicit that the people you were fighting were either bad or were taking orders from someone who was bad.
@@loganrenfrow2544 not necessarily. 3 Houses for example, each side outside of the slithers are relatively justified in what they do and the story still isn't afraid to shy away from the fact you're putting down good people because they serve the opposing side
Awakening does follow similar themes in the map where you face Mustafa
I like the more realistic takes on war like that though, its a lot of the reason why I enjoy series like Universal Century Gundam and such
@@Jobocite oh I know it isn't the only time it's just the first time that it was like 80% of the game.
I think the idea behind pacifist corrin in Conquest is that for the most part Corrin joins Nohr so that he can sabotage Garon's plans from the inside, and preventing entire swathes of Garon's enemies from dying is a pretty good sabotage.
Never forget Micaiah Famously slaughtered tons of people on screen with boulders and burning oil, and those people were not evil, they were the good guys.
Meanwhile in Three Houses:
Lysithea: **Gets absolutely clapped by Byleth** Spare me, plz!
Byleth: k
Balthus: Hey Teach, could you please NOT kill Hilda?
Byleth: imma pretend I didn't hear that.
The justification is that Lysithea surrenders but Hilda refuses to.
Hilda:"I will not back down. Kill me if you must!"
Byleth:"Oke"
CORRIN: uuuughhh ooooaaaaaaahhh when will the bloodshed end my hands are tainted
"man you really didn't need to kill the kitsune guys you hadn't killed anyone so far"
CORRIN: uoooooooooohh
The more and more I look into fates I realize that "Wow, someone really botched this." but also "Wow, if you fixed a few things this would be really really good."
That is actually sorta the thing. The story was put through a blender and then treehoused to get to us, but the basic concept isn't that bad. That is why people wonder what the original script was before it was rewritten prerelease.
Theres actually a mod called good guy garon that rewrites conquest.
@@thechugg4372 I've seen it, and I do like it. I still personally think it can be improved even from there.
Apparently the guy they had to write the game wrote a huge amount of story but Nintendo decided to shorten it so the story got butchered
"No one can die in a dream."
Freddy Krueger: "Oh I beg to differ."
Rip those Fox people though.
In corrins defense, they were cheap bastards with how they fought
The kitsune deserved it after the hell they made you go through
Chp 12-15 are explicitly 0, as according to Peri in Chp 16, Corrin ordered the army not to kill anyone between her joining and them reuniting with Xander.
I know that he killed at least one dude, and wore his skin as boots, but I'm sure that was completely justified like everything else in Conquest...
Those were very nice boots.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 Boots that Corrin desperately needed.
By comparison, BR!Corrin enters full Dimitri mode.
This really reminds me how I couldn't get into fates. I bought the collector with all three routes and started with conqiest, because it really seemed like you could go down a dark path. Only to not be able to side with daddy garon and kill every last one of them. I was really expecting this at the start, but quickly understood we had to be the good guys anyway. Such a shame.
Birthright was definitely the bad guys this time.
in short, Corrin really hates those stupid foxes, and is 100% justified.
I loved this analysis, it's something I haven't seen made by someone, it reminds me of that Thracia 776 video where someone connects Chapter 7 and Chapter 8 map of FE4 and the maps/routes Leif is in.
I really like to see more of this in Fire Emblem Community, shout out to you, it's an amazing video!.
That sounds cool, can you give me the link to that video?
@@djordj9330
Maybe it's this?
ruclips.net/video/MgAkoJQwdDk/видео.html
@@fakesmile172 it is.
Thanks
I like to think that Corrin personally killed Hans for all the hell he put them through
You’ve given this much more analysis than it deserves
Corrin never striked me as someone who would kill but Marth has always given me that vibe. Also, Byleth and Dimitri definitely killed.
Marth has a conversation or two with Nyna in FE11 about how he recognizes the humanity of the foes he has killed. Dmitri is... well, Dimitri and Byleth was such an effective mercenary that they was dubbed the ASHEN DEMON by his fellow mercenaries, so they have definitely killed.
Corrin fighting Nohrians, Hoshidans, or mostly anyone: "I shall not kill you! I wish this war to end peaceful!"
Corrin fighting Kitsunes: "I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them!"
My head canon is that corrin just inherited anakos’s magic mind power everytime he wants to get away with murder he just makes everyone think he pacified everyone. Especially considering how they all it takes is for someone to gaze into corrin’s calming eyes to be completely on board with whatever corrin wants. The only reason they didn’t use this with the kitsune was because they were all dead and no one was there to witness corrin’s butcher who wasn’t already bound everlasting to corrin’s army (not even death will save your soul as the einjar shop’s existence basically lets Corrin do what Anakos does with constantly reviving the dead)
I can't believe you didn't censor the "V*lite", we can't say their name since we didn't BUY REV!
The curse is part of the DLC, you only disappear if you pay $20!
From the way Corrin seems to break down after Ryoma's death and the fact that they had to keep up appearances for Garon does tell me that Corrin probably killed more people than we're explicitly told.
Hell, we see this in his supports with Azura - Corrin killed a _lot._ I just think that what the games meant is to show those he tried to spare versus what was actually feasible. Something that'd be legitimately really cool if they had the time to flesh this out.
@@TheAxeLord47911 conquest is just one big what could've been. Moral greys and quandries, the death of innocence, a main character who slowly starts to forget that their brutality and hatred is a show. You become marth and warcrime your way to victory... at the cost of your humanity... and at the end you kneel in the sundered ashes of a once-beautiful hoshido and wonder if the price of your birth family is worth keeping your old family, fractured, abusive and laden each with a heavy, darkened heart. You wonder if you made the right choice, and you find some strange comfort in the fact that there isn't an answer, because you fear the truth is that you chose wrong....
And you didn't
Buy Rev 20$ baybe!
Or it could be inconsistent and poor writing from different people without a solid understanding of the story
Fire Emblem Fates Conquest is a game where you're told you don't actually kill your enemies, it's one of the few games with a Capture mechanic to actually let you do that in gameplay, and yet by the time you beat it you'll still have committed genocide.
Revelation is way worse with the "we didn't kill anyone" dialogue, I remember it happening so often before you go to Valla
Revelation is such a joke fanfiction moment, but I DO still love playing it. The character interactions are just plain interesting to me. I do like the concept of these malevolent ghosts from another world pulling the strings, but the whole "I can't tell you but just trust me" vibes are so stupid.😂
Like just have Azura be so traumatized that THAT is why she can't talk about it (it makes sense too). And Corrin NEEDS to talk about it and prove it to the other guys like c'mon story they really gonna trust on a whim? Izana had to die for Takumi to finally be convinced (and that didn't have to happen).
Corrin should have ditched the Ganglari when it pulled them off a bridge. You could argue that Corrin's judgement was clouded in all the commotion of that cutscene but it's weird how the story makes no effort to justify this. I'd say Corrin is guilty of negligence at that point.
Didn’t they get immediately KO’d by Rinkah?
Real problem was the Hoshidan dummies allowing a prisoner to keep their weapon lol
To be fair with Corrin here, the abyss is sus as heck and a lot of other weird stuff happened there. They might have assumed it to be a one time-event due to the sword not acting up again.(I mean, it literally never did it again. Even when the explosion happened, it was a direct act from an attacker, not the weapon doing stuff on its own)
I feel like that other FE games don't say you don't kill people though. It's just that you can kill the boss with anyone, so half the time, there's no cutscenes that's like "ah yes Ephraim, it was you who killed Valter. Not just someone in your army." But there are also usually less worries about whether it's the right thing to do. No one is second guessing killing Validar, even if he is Robin's dad. Hell, doesn't Robin send two ships colliding into one another ON FIRE in Awakening? It's bound to have killed tons, but it's just talked about like it's a cool maneuver.
Fates wants you to care about these people you're killing because (if you pay 20 dollars) you could get to know them and learn that they're good people too. But...you aren't really killing them anyway because it's mostly avoidable.
"Is it really okay to kill your fa-" "I don't fucking know this bitch and he keeps fucking with my head. Murder him."
Also I think they evac'd the burning ships. Plus it's not like Validar sent any extra soldiers to staff the ships, literally just the ships.
@@StarshadowMelody love robin, but also thank you, that made me bust a lung
Oh god I forgot about Robin’s hilarious war crime
Robin:"Hey, how about we turn half of our fleet into live bombs? No one from our side is going to die, so it's alright!"
Everyone in Awakening:"Interessting maneuver."
This is most likely giving this game way too much credit but you could see this game's enhanced difficulty compared to the other 2 routes as a meta representation of how much more difficult Conquest Corrin's policy of minimal casualties is compared to Birthright Corrin deciding "Nah, those Nohr fuckers have it coming."
At least on 3H, the students had a quote when they'd kill someone for the first time 😅
The reason they can't have Corrin kill anyone in Conquest is because you are mostly fighting Hoshido. Despite the idea of Fates was picking between two families and nations and dealing with the consequences, Hoshido is unquestionable good and Nohr are literally the antagonists. If Corrin killed Hoshido soldiers in this black and white conflict they would be undeniable a villain and as the player insert and paragon of good that is not allowed.
Perhaps if Fates was written more like a war between two nations equally justified who are at odds with each other and not just a cartoonishly good versus evil story maybe we could of got a compelling story full of nuance.
Like you know the premise of Conquest is bad when Garon is legit confused why Corrin would come back to Nohr. Like child I literally had you attacked by my own men so you could unknowingly assassinate your mother. I am kind of a POS, why are you here?
Chapter 18 is funny to me because Zola had all the Hoshidan royals captured and at Nohr’s mercy but Xander comes in and kills his own countrymen because it “wouldn’t be honorable,” completely ignoring all the stuff his country has already pulled and that murdering your allies is totally justified if they’re not winning the war fairly.
Imagine how many generic lives he could have saved if he just helped Zola kill the royals.
My man saw a chance for more EXP and by god he took it
Xander just dislikes sussy imposters.
Solid conclusions! Thanks for putting the effort into analyzing this, it was fun to watch
Pretty sure Subaki and Hana explicitly don't die after the Sakura/Yukimura boss map. Strangely, I think the only playable characters who explicitly DO die if you kill them are Scarlet, probably Reina and Orochi (Hans rule), the furries, and potentially the retainers of the Hoshidan royals that die if you don't skip fighting them (Oboro, Hinata, Saizo, Kagero, Laslow, Arthur, Effie); Hana and Subaki get captured, Azama and Setsuna fake their deaths, Selena Beruka Niles and Odin (the one Awakening-returner who can't ACTUALLY die on any route!) all just sorta survive the final time you fight them. Probably Charlotte and Benny on birthright but it isn't made clear. idk why they made this writing decision when they want you to feel the hardships of war.
Not technically in-story, but there’s also Corrin’s B-Rank Support with Azura in that route. Corrin’s attacked by a Hoshidan solider, after which they say something along the lines of “I didn’t want to kill him, but I had no choice.” Just thought I should put that out there in case nobody else has
Ty for this lovely video about Corrin
Would takumi jumping off the bridge count as a suicide? I guess takumi doesn’t commit suicide to prevent corrin from killing people
Takumu was already dead by then. His battle theme switches from the Nohrian one to the Vallite one starting in Chapter 13.
Do Takumi and Garon even count since they are dead and possessed? The kitsune chapter is what makes Corrin out of character the most. They weren't even directly involved in the war yet he makes them go extinct.
Corrin killed the Kitsune because Corrin hates furries. Even a broken clock i suppose.
Honestly I forgot this was even a thing in conquest to make Corrin seem like he is helping but it doesn't matter much considering how much plot protects him or people die off screen anyways with Iago Hans and Zola around.
Elise being 18 is probably how I see the localazation going to try to justify things.
"Nohr has magic similar to that of Hoshido's barrier that nonlethally KOs the enemy when the user wills it"
There. Done. I don't like the idea of a non-lethal KO in a full scale war as that feels like a copout but if they had to do it they could just do it like that
I am guessing 3
Edit: If we follow the rules takumi doesn't counts so i am right
Looking at this, the main thing I think about is how, in some of the earlier Fe games, the Lords (at least to start) are quite weak, so just by gameplay, they probably don't have that many souls to their name, just how much you could, or felt was proper, to give them.
Meanwhile, starting with Kris in New mystery and onwards with PC protags, we've had literal murder machines, who I refuse to believe do not have extremely violent tendencies, or family issues fueling their bloodstained carnage trek through whatever country was unfortunate enough to have them borne into it.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg for why Corrin in particular was so jarring. I kinda respect the choice to have Byleth literally be an unfeeling psycho (practically speaking), whose main attachments only come while working at the monastery, because that's likely where you as the player, also build attachments to the characters too (seeing as it's the main setting you see, not Byleth's past). It works for the murder and bonding!
Now that I'm playing thraccia I found this hilarious, knowing that in that game it's stated something among the lines of "it is sad that the lopterian soldiers are probably here against they will, we maybe will spare (capture) them" and then capture 5 out of 40 soldiers
Corrin would never kill😡😡😡
He is perfect, Corrin is our lord and savior i'm corrinssexual myself 🤗😤😤
Irony alert
To be fair, they did follow up this entry with three houses, which explicitly has almost all of your characters killing large numbers of people
Imagine how ironic it would be that In Birthright and Revelation, it ends up implying more people have died than In Conquest?
When they marketed a Fire Emblem game where I could play as the invading empire, I was excited. Burn and destroy, war for fun and profit! When do you get to play the out-and-out BAD guys in Fire Emblem?
Apparently never, because the developers sure wanted players to know that Corrin is a good soul.
Corrin killed every single enemy on the kana paralogue. You can't change my mind
When I was younger and first played it I skipped the story so I could kill the bad guys but now knowing corrin barely kills is sad
Corrin: I never kill anyone
Also Corrin: commits genocide on furries!
I mean...
Leo really out here doing corrin’s dirty work that’s why he’s my fucking goat
they should've made Corrin the Batman routine
Takumi's death is counted as suicide loophole right?
Gosh the kitsunes being just slaughtered all at once “in self defense” will never not be funny to me
Game Theory: The Events of the DLC happen because Excelblem wanted more named character death
Would you add corrin not having A support with Kaze technically *killing* kaze, or are we assuming full support is gained during this analysis?
That only happens in Birthright, and this video only analyzes Conquest. I assume if Excelblem analyzes Birthright, Kaze’s death will be counted like Shura’s (treated as happening, with a note that it is optional), but also as a suicide loophole (as Kaze sacrifices himself, meaning Corrin technically did not kill him themselves).
Early game corrin: I want to prove to Hoshido that we aren't evil....I will spare everyone I can.
Chapter 19: This fox tribe thinks I'm here for their fur, but they're wrong! I'm actually here for outright genocide!
Corrin's Nohr army is insanely skilled for being non-lethal and knocking people out in the midst of the chaos of war against an opposite force hell bent on protecting their home and seeking vengeance for their late queen.
The only explanation I get for chapter 19 is that it's a marketing ploy to get another route. Fates just love going "what if there was another way" and just didn't care about the story so far. That or Corrin only cares about the country he spend a week in and decided that they were to be protected at all cost.
Iirc Chapter 16 could be yellow instead of red (due to choice of sparing Shura) and 26 red depending on what do you think (it might be possible that Corrin killed Hans for revenge, but Iago being killed by Leo is canon). The only truly explicit kills are the Kitsunes (Kaden included)
Now we need a Corrin Pacifist run
Honestly, the way I saw it was that Conquest only had no fatalities when they're explicit mentioned it as such. Chapter 8, 11 and 20 are the only chapters I'd say result in completely no fatalities, the former being due to it being a small-level skirmish and the latter being a mock battle. Everything else I feel is met pretty clearly with some degree of fatality (Chapter 10, 12, 14, etc. etc.) or Corrin _tried_ to spare the enemy soldiers but the Nohrians massacred them (Chapters 13 & 22) - or in some cases, nobody spared (Chapter 9). This is to say nothing that Corrin's supports with Azura in Conquest confirms he's killed a _lot_ already, alongside the general cloud of doubt that persists with Corrin throughout the story.
It's kind of a shame, because it'd have been an interesting dilemma for Corrin to have confronted if done right. Ah, well.
I will always be the first to admit I genuinely enjoyed Conquest's story, but that's by and large I'd continue to argue that a _lot_ of how the game's portrayed makes more sense taken out of context - and it’s with real-world context and putting inconsistencies and the general gist of what the plot means that things really line up. Hoshido ending up slaughtering way more soldiers in Birthright with all the Rout maps? An indicator alongside the lack of facetime given to the Nohrian uniques being rapidly slaughtered, and the general feel is something that is applied too simply to actually merit discussion here. Hoshido ending up having nearly all of its retainers be nobility while Nohr scarcely cares for who fights, as long as they can? Distinct between even the katakana/kanji readings of the original cast. The fact Hoshido doesn’t even know Nohr is starving and using that as a motive? Hints of near-total ignorance coming from them over the status here. And hell, the fact King Garon and his cronies (Iago and Hans) are borderline-irredeemably cartoonish lunatics? Entirely sensible given Anankos possessed Garon - Anankos, batshit insane dragon who degenerated to misanthropy - and it makes sense that Garon would openly hire a scheming traitor and a serial killer for his army, an arrangement that also had the Nohrian royals effectively lovebombed in order to keep them obedient - to the point a major part of the Royals character development was built around them justifying their actions before deciding to never justify it anymore. Fates has a lot of these aspects that, if you choose to take the context away from how the game presents it to actual references in real-world history and detail, makes a startling amount of sense.
The sad part is that IntSys just didn't have the time nor ability to get all it wanted to do done, given the writer for Fates had gotten 1,500 pages for all three routes, but had to compress it severely until it just didn't work as well as it could. But on the flipside, it makes me hopeful for a remake to give it its full potential, because at the end of the day, I've put way more time into a game I adore than is healthy (561 hours total), and I don't regret a single second of it.
Great video, Excelblem! Always great to see good more Fates content. :D
What do you mean? Chosing between a man and a pair of boots is the best possible moral dilemma!
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 Boots is good, but Shura is a really cool character, so I kinda regret that I "role-played" (loosely described) and killed him on my main Conquest run. But honestly, choices like that are really interesting, and honestly are better done than Awakening's weightless choices.
In the end, the game just deserves a second chance, because it had so much going for it, and still does even now. It'll always be one of my GOAT games, and I love it even now. :D
The virgin "no you can't kill anyone" conquest vs the Chad "KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!"
"Corrin Kiryu has never killed anyone"
Corrin being the moral paragon of Nohr could work if the writing wasn't such a hot mess.
Iirc Corrin did killed Hoshidans as revealed in the Corrin-Azura support.
I don’t like how this implies that Jakob lives.
Leo is corns personal executioner
The virgin Corrin: wins a war while non-descriptively taking soldiers out.
The chad Byleth: takes literal children out to fight and explicitly kill enemies while also being responsible for plenty of deaths themselves.
IntSys really regretted how cheesy Fates' story turned out, huh.
"Fuck dude Corrin is too moral of a character, what do we do?"
"... Make the next player unit commit war crimes for half of the story?"
"you're a genius Derreck"
Shura, Kaden, Takumi and Garon. Well Kaden not directly. but you get to choose him with corrin.
Yknow killing Shura is optional and neither Garon nor Takumi is properly alive rn so that just leaves the one with the kitsunes. In conclusion: Corrin is racist
Corrin doesn't kill anybody because she/he said so
Corrin: *maniaclly laughing while rewriting history*
Around 1:49 your voice cut off. Is that intentional?
nope, a clip was accidentally deleted
I say something along the lines of "Corrin invades Fort Dragonfall and fights some Hoshidan Soldiers"
Corins war crime trial
You forgot to censor yourself saying Valite! You're gonna cease to exist!
Eh, he bought the Revelation path, so I'm sure he'll be fine.
Nah, the curse just doesn't include the word because Anankos was too cheap to pay 5 more € for the full pay to win-pack.
I think in the japanese version they point out the nonlethal bullshit more often, like ryoma's pot map & defending the port against takumi, but they still get vague in the sakura chapter & takumi's wall or something. (Also it's worth noting that pretty much all human generics can just be captured in gameplay) What really throws me for a loop is the sudden mass-genocide of an entire people just because they threatened to defend their village. that's super out of left field & is the only true instance of corrin killing anyone in conquest as garron & takumi are technically just vallites that are more directly possessed by anonkos at the time that he kills them