- Yes, I'm aware there are trolls from the TCC in the comments. Just ignore them. They're probably going through something. - I see a number of people from the TCC attempting to discredit Dave Cullen and his book. Most of this seems to stem from the fact that he says both boys weren't bullied. Cullen claims this narrative comes from mainstream media sensationalism. See full report here: www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/10/columbine-parkland-gun-crime-dave-cullen Additionally, no one has provided any sources that debunk Cullen's claims. Cullen cites FBI reports and its team of psychiatrists and psychologists. I'm more inclined to believe those sources than a random internet comment's opinion. I'm open to hearing an opposition to Cullen though, if you provide the source where you drew your conclusion. - 7:20 is Elephant and not Zero Day - Lanza was 20
an example of this would be claiming eric and dylan weren't bullied and using dave cullens book as a reference, this is not true at all. if you look at interviews with students from the school, you'd know that they were in fact bullied and quite horribly, even teachers confirmed that bullying at columbine was a huge problem and there was instances where this was brought up yet nothing was done about it. eric and dylan were quoted as being "the bottom of the school" and one notable incident was them having a cup of fecal matter thrown at them. there is plenty of easily accessible information everywhere, i'd really recommend you try look into this more than what is just at surface level. _
@@Yummynomnom123 most people who're aware of the facts of the case wouldn't deny they were bullied, this was acknowledged when it happened. That doesn't excuse them from their actions, nor should it be used to make them martyrs.
hello! i sent you a dm on instagram with sources and some information, it's pretty long and youtube wouldn't let me post it here so i hope that you see it
Yeah I agree, shouldn't be seen as Mary's but they were pushed into this. Either keep existing be8ng run into the ground, live tortured lives or get revenge on society. I restled with the same question
Finance bros and Entrepreneurs have been seen as cool since at least the 80s. American psycho itself was a repudiation of the glorification of Yuppie and Wall Street culture.
I think they've always been seen as sleezy, I don't know about "cool" what pop culture references from the 80's are you thinking of that branded finance bros as cool?
I would say they've always been seen as a prestigious form of work, similar to being a doctor or engineer. However, I wouldn't say they were always thought of as "cool" (at least when the 2000s came around). You'll even hear some people like Gary V attributing the "glamorization of entrepreneurship" to social media.
I am old enough to remember when Columbine happened. There was a bit of a witch hunt in the weeks and months that followed. All of the kids who regularly wore trench coats were pulled out of class and questioned. I knew one guy who was into chemistry/pyrotechnics and the school administration thought he might be building bombs. Fortunately, nothing bad ever happened at my school, but I have to think those kids were somewhat scarred by the fact that were profiled and presumed to be killers when in fact they just harmless.
Lol the only kind of nick name I had was "columbine kid" because I wore a trench coat/ metal band shirts (i still do). Ironically enough that image alone kept people from trying to harass or bully me in high-school. I was bullied pretty mercilessly in elementary school and admittedly related to the columbine shooters somewhat in terms of "the bullied outcast" narrative, but at the end of the day even as a weak and powerless 12 year old I knew that shooting sombody would only create more misery.
My mother when I was in high school during Sandy Hook: "You are NEVER getting a trench coat!! And why do you love those combat boots?!" My friends mother in Littleton CO where Columbine happened: *Takes all of my friend's Marilyn Manson Merch and rips the poster off the wall*
For my school, it was after the Virgina Tech shooting. Even though were on the opposite coast and in the middle of suburbia, they went full on prison-style security - You had to be escorted to and from classes by police or staff, absolutely no talking during lunch (they even made everyone sit seperate from eachother), and the cops themselves patrolled with rifles and shotguns around the campus. It didn't help that my school was already very heavy handed with their zero tolarance policies so it was hell for a week. After that, the cops put their long guns back on the racks and we were allowed to socialize again outside of classes, but the atmosphere remained tense for the rest of the year.
that entire rest of the year and the ones that followed became HELL for me and my friends because of those fuckwits. it turned into an ABSOLUTE witch hunt, and all before we even knew it would be a regular thing... I can't believe how much it impacted us only to grow up and see little shitlords making a party out of it as some kind of fucked up coping mechanism for how common this stuff has become. I know they're going through shit but it's so disrespectful to everyone who suffered because those two little dipshits couldn't find something positive to live for in the goddamn late 90s, a really awesome time to be alive. they sucked and I'm just sorry hell isn't real.
regrettably i used to be in this community on tumblr in 2018. i was experiencing untreated mental illness at age 14 and i felt that the community accepted me as an outcast of society. i want to comment on the massive cognitive dissonance these teenagers had, me included. never once could i stomach photos of the victims, footage of the incidents. clearly i felt disgusted by their crimes but managed to separate the crimes from the perpetrators. lots of members drew the line SOMEWHERE - its funny that the sandy hook shooter is mentioned in the video because i knew many, many people who openly adored the columbine shooters but thought it was disgusting for others to do the same for the sandy hook shooter because "he killed little kids, thats so different to killing teenagers". same goes for the charleston church shooter - people who loved racist, bigoted shooters were derisive of fans of the charleston church shooter because his crime was motivated by race. that's where they drew the line. lots of the people in the community were teenagers like me who were unfortunately led down a dark hole during a bad period of their life. some were adults, like 30, who were genuinely depraved. there was a big emphasis on bragging about stomaching gore in some parts, lots of blogs who claimed to condone murder, lots of blogs who openly talked about suicidal and homidical thoughts and encouraged others to do so. and then other parts you'd get people reblogging beautiful photos of victims one moment, claiming to be respectful and understanding, and reblogging thirst traps of killers the next. like i said, LOTS of cognitive dissonance. i am so glad i left this community behind. easily the part of my life im the most embarrassed and genuinely ashamed about.
I would turn your shame into finding healing for yourself and know that stories like yours are powerful and can serve to “deprogram” the next wave of children (particularly those I worry about are the Quarantine Kids who had unfettered access to the internet during extreme isolation). They need your help and by speaking up on this, you can help someone struggling. Much love ❤
I still remember the time when "sigma male" just portrayed stoic men who continuously sought to become better versions of themselves, but then again, you can never trust the internet to not take things way too far. It's the same with the gigachad and zyzz memes. Started off as a fun, self-improvement motivational thing but then it became a way for a few people to make fun of others, which is sadly the exact opposite of what the meme was supposed to be intended for. It's a classic case of a small group of "creators" ruining it for everyone.
The whole Sigma male grindset thing started as a ironic joke that was making fun of the whole alpha and beta shit that redpill youtubers would spew. It's really funny to see people turn this ironic joke into the exact thing it was making fun of.
it still means that, the meaning doesn't change because the internet said so, it's such a tiny fraction of society even on social media that we shouldn't give so much importance to those with the loudest voice
I'm actually trying to write about this to make a small video. The reappropriation of otherwise funny terms. When I saw the term "based" being used to represent sexist behavior towards women I knew something was up. "stay woke" and "sigma male" were both supposed to be jokes making fun a group of people that took these ideas too seriously, and now have somehow come full circle, "based" used to represent being yourself and tolerance, now it's used to describe male chauvinist behavior. It's weird how it efficient the reappropriation of terms has been.
I'm not sure if anyone else agrees with me but I think showing and putting mass shooters faces out into the public gives them what they want. And could be very traumatic for those who have been victim to gun violence or have seen it take place.
Appreciate the feedback. I did a video a few years ago about mass shootings where I did blur out their faces and even their names. I received comments saying I didn't need to do that because everyone already knew who they were. I will perhaps go back to blurring faces/names in future videos if everyone agrees that this is the best way to approach this topic!
@@DonnaIRL ngl I think it's better to show the faces because it makes you remember, that even though all killers look happy, nice, approachable, whatever, they STILL can be purely evil on the inside. It makes you cautios in life so you know that no matter how charming stranger for example can be, you shouldnt 100% trust them.
Yeah and not only with mass shooters but with serial killers as well. Like I can admit that some of them might be attractive but that's it. People often forget that these are real human beings and not some TV show we're talking about, these killers aren't edgy characters you can thirst over and make fanart and fanfics about. PEOPLE DIED. Show some respect to the victims and their families.
As we see from the video, the people who admire these murderers are severely mentally ill and need mental help. So if you somehow know someone who does this, ask a professional counselor
@@theshire9173 you need help to see that theres nothing wrong with it especially if they arent harming anyone who cares, at that point its just your morality.
Well, I'm glad we're not just pretending this isn't an issue with men. If all these sh00ters were women, people wouldn't be able to stop talking about it. But since they're men, it's like it's just accepted by society without addressing the fact that this has everything to do with men's mental health, how men's mental health is viewed by society as this "lesser issue" of sorts, and how men (the ones that need to speak about it the most) are often the one's shaming other men instead of eliminating the stigma that these guys deal with. They only say "what about men's mental health?" And "no one cares when you're a guy" when they're trying to start arguments in spaces specifically for women's mental health. But if they really cared, they'd talk about it on their own channels and pages, not just attacking women for being openly vulnerable in their own safe spaces. Men shouldn't just say "put it into the gym" and "put it into the grind" while dismissing the actual mental health issues men face. They should encourage judgment-free environments where they can chip away at all the stigma, help men who need therapy to actually get it, to change the narrative on men's mental health as a whole, just like women did, and encourage friends/family/peers to stop making a mockery of men's mental health and actually be a support system for these guys. Instead of putting men in these boxes like "sigma male", "alpha male", ect, they should be allowed to just exist and be who they are without being called "simps" if they're kind people or in love with someone, and "beta" if they don't possess arbitrary traits and items that men are "supposed" to have. If they could look to healthy examples of men, they wouldn't have to see themselves as outcasts and look up to criminals as role models instead.
Well put. I agree, men should feel safe being themselves without being judged by other men and also by women. I hope Millennials and Gen Z are making it better for men to be more open with each other. As a woman, in my experiences, I feel like men are too scared to open up about things that they should talk about and it makes me feel bad that they may not able to do that with their "best" friends.
@@biteofdog I agree, though I feel like men (and other women) blame women enough as it is when in reality, it's a men's issue. I think women should be allies, sure, but I don't think they should be the ones to single-handedly change the narrative around men's mental health. Just like I think men should be allies to women's mental health without claiming to know exactly what it's like to be a woman or anything like that. Women simply will never know what it's like to be a man and because of that, I think it's important that men set healthy examples for other men and I think society as a whole should all destigmatize men getting the help and support they might desperately need
To be fair, the gym is a tool guys use to deal with these emotions, guys by default externalise emotions they feel and since it's difficult to find a therapist who is a guy and gets it the gym is better than other ways.
@@Dracon7601 While exercising in general is good for anyone's mental health, and can help with feelings of stress, anxiety, and depression, that alone won't cure clinical depression, help a man work through trauma, or help him process emotions other than anger. Men need to be allowed to have and express a wide array of emotions other than anger, as well as get to the root as to why they might be feeling so angry in the first place without judgement, shame, or scrutiny. Rather than being told to just "power through it" and "let it out" in the gym. All that serves in that situation is as a bandaid. And men don't externalize emotions "by default" much differently than women. It's just that society has conditioned men to think that the only emotions they're allowed to show is anger, happiness (regardless of if it's real and usually over sports teams winning or something), and not much in between. It's a social issue that's often being dismissed as a biological one. Anger is often used to mask other emotions like sadness and fear, but men have heard, often from other men (including their father in many cases), that they'll be seen as "weak", "effeminate", "a p*$$y", and so many other trigger words to shame them into a permanent state of masking. (which is the propensity people feel to hide their emotions or personality traits in specific situations). No one should be masking literally all the time in every single situation for their entire life. Also, male therapists can easily be found in whichever area they live in if they feel their therapist must be male. Google is a great tool for that. And men can work with their primary care doctors with setting up therapy and specifically request a list of male therapists that they can choose from. Additionally, if the social landscape can change by destigmatizing actual mental health care from professionals, and change people's attitudes in general surrounding men's mental health, more and more organizations will be created to meet growing demand, just like it did for women. But it starts with men. They're largely the ones that stray other men from getting the help they need and dismiss other men's issues. Men should support other men in getting better rather than "supporting" each other only in crimes or hate against people that aren't like them (i.e. different race, sexual orientation, women, and even other men that think differently than them). There have been too many people making too many excuses as to why men's mental health isn't important and it needs to end. Because if the current ways men deal with things was working, we wouldn't have so many men committing violent and unspeakable acts on themselves and others
@@potatoking8644 You can't even talk about mens problems without women barging in about how female problems are more important. Most men don't ignore mental health concerns because of other men, they ignore them because they don't want to be viewed negatively by women.
"Love Is more valuable than anything I know" comes from one of the killer's (Don't remember his name but the blonde one) diary where he expresses that love was his only desire in life
I think the root issue is these kids feeling unloved, or not "enough". It's up to their parents to instill that security and sense of belonging in them. It's definitely more easily said than done when there's a lack of time/money/resources/knowledge. It's also very possible that these parents are still troubled from their own childhoods. Generational trauma is rough.
I agree. I feel as a society we need to put an emphasis on mental health care and supports/screenings for parents. So many children (myself included) grew up insecurely broken homes. And while not all children end up taking it out in horrific ways, some do or at least have thoughts of doing so. And when these traumatized children become adults, they're expected to get over their trauma and be functional We essentially break children and expect to be "functional". Which just represses the trauma and leads to expressing it in toxic ways
@@toyafanexactly. There’s hella kids out there without good loving homes yet they ain’t out here shooting up schools left and right. Like you said to a lot of them come from good homes. Sadly just many demented human beings exist like the news lady said. No bullying existed as they were popular in Columbine and had dates to Prom also. Out of pure evil these boys committed these crimes
The clips you showed weren’t of the basement tapes, they were just home movies. The basement tapes were never released to the public and never will be. Also Adam Lanza was 20, not 27
You are so good at what you do. I’m 42, so I remember Columbine well (from an outside perspective). I mention Columbine because it became the first widespread fandom regarding such horrific actions. Bizarre in and of itself. Back then, it WAS based on this idea of bullied “losers” getting revenge. When it doesn’t even seem that Eric and Dylan were bullied or disliked. So even THAT was, based on what any outsider could know, not a truth. In my opinion, based on absolutely nothing but my observation of cultural changes, the shift in the way these killers are viewed happened due to societal shifts. What used to be considered nerdy or geeky became cool. So what was an outcast over 20 years ago would not be today. This may seem like a very strange reference, but take the Weird Al parody ‘White and Nerdy’. EVERYTHING Al raps about as nerdy back then is stuff that everyone thinks is cool now. People are still mean, don’t get me wrong, but in general calling someone a nerd isn’t even an insult anymore.
I haven't even spent 5 minuets in and I completely agree with the main premise. There is something sick about how Mass Murderers have been lauded as some of the most cunning amongst humanity, when in reality the opposite is true; not being able to lose, tolerate rejection, deal with life and stress; makes you a *LOSER* (assuming you also have nefarious thoughts about humanity in your head)
I think one aspect of radicalization that people neglect, maybe on purpose as a cope to not feel like any of us are responsible, is that there's a reason these individuals go to those niche groups... they're the only ones that don't condescend/dismiss them when they bring up their concerns or observations. There's no charitability, and no empathy towards individuals who may feel disenfranchised when it comes to specific subjects. Inceldom being one of the current movements that's being demonized and stigmatized by professionals, institutions and authority figures. I dont think pre-emptively seeking radicalization is the solution to these issues. We become exterminators of dissent, instead of publically engaging in these conversations so that people can choose for themselves where they stand, but instead we refuse to have conversations because of optics, or the consequence of optics.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying they're justified for their harmful actions, don't @me with that. I believe a lot of this starts from the top down. Our leaders are failing us. Often times the only form of emotional or logical validation people need, or respectful conversations, coming from "radicals" or professionals tucked behind paywalls.
As someone with intrusive thoughts, I was shamed a lot for them and I ended up pushing myself away from people. I feel bad because I (who was a teen when it was the worst) really glorified pedophiles, I excused their actions, romantized them, wanted them to like me and when I was as young as 13 I dated multiple 20 year olds. People shamed me for these intrusive thoughts, made me think that’s what I was really like, and it caused me to surround myself with people who didn’t shame me and glorified the same people aswell, so I kinda agree..
@Osaki unfortunately I see this happen a lot. I worked with the homeless population and that seemed to be a common story, as well as a lack of understanding/empathy regarding addiction. I'm glad you managed to become self aware of it enough to be able to speak on it. I wish it was more common
It depends on the thoughts but fundamentally therapy is a tool which men in general fail to make use of. Fundamentally these guys don't seem to have or really try to make genuine friendships first and that's a huge part of why they fall to radicalisation.
@Daniel Adeyemi I wouldn't dismiss them by saying they don't try or don't make use of something that isn't easily accessible. Businesses like Better Help made it easier but ive personally spoken with men who have used it and although it has helped them in some regards, they don't really like the therapist they were assigned. It's not an easy "as long as they seek professional help and take it seriously, they'll be alrigh." It's oversimplifying a complex issue.
This is an amazing coverage of the subject, extremely pertinent and well explored. I dated a Roblox moderator who coursed psychology, she often talked about the same points you're making.
I know the mother of a man killed in the Virginia Tech shooting. She is the sweetest, kindest person I know. It absolutely enrages me that the person who killed her son, made such an amazing woman go through so much pain, is idolized and romanticized. I understand having an interest in true crime, but I’ll never understand this. Remember Ryan Clark instead of the shooter. He died protecting a fellow student
We've been having more mass/ school shootings this past 2 years than we had in history. I 100% it has to do with the fascination of serial killers and social media combined.
Probably more disappointing part of knowing about the fan base made is knowing it's made in russian language too. This tragedy exists in my country as well. Breaks my heart to see "ненависть" 8:22
Hi:) I'm a Columbine researcher and I just wanted to throw in that Dave Cullen's Columbine book is pretty unanimously considered biased and stereotypical, and generally disliked by the majority of Columbine researchers ! I've seen some people promoting it as a good explaination of the story but I just wanted to mention that it's not really great and if you're interested in the case, I recommend reading something else. That's all:)
@@egg_bun_ Jeff Kass', "Columbine: A True Crime Story" and Rita Gleason's, "Evidence Ignored: What You May Not Know About Columbine" are good starters. Otherwise RUclips has better videos out there. Such as, The Columbine Iceberg series by Restraining Disorder, NationSquid's two videos: Columbine The Big Picture (part 1) + Columbine - A New World (part 2) and lastly Zero Hour: Massacre at Columbine High is great as well. Though keep in mind the last one was released in 2004 so there are some bigger inaccuracies but much, MUCH better than Dave Cullen's work of fiction. Then there's also the subreddits r/Columbine and r/ColumbineKillers if you're on Reddit. Edit: Personally if you're going to read Kass and Gleason's books, I'd recommend going in the order I listed them. As for the videos I'd recommend going Zero Hour, NationSquid then the Iceberg series. But at the end of the day it's up to you and how you wanna do it!
Yea as a 2015 columbine girly it's a fucking wild to look back on those days. But Dave Cullen is the shittest representation you could possibly find. Dude had a hard on for dylan worse than most girls in the TCC did.
I have been watching your videos for a couple years now and have to say that the amount of humor and the different style (green screen mostly) in this video have been quite refreshing, great work as usual, can't believe this is free, thanks for the video
9:47 "you'll all know who I am." I'm pretty sure that's all these guys care about, and any video about them, including this one, is giving them that satisfaction, whether they're here to receive it or not. That just inspires more depraved people to do the same thing, knowing that if it got attention for those guys, it'll get attention for them as well. It's very hard to become famous for doing good, but it's extremely easy to get famous for doing evil. I'm not here to hate on this video at all, but I think if the identities of these killers were kept private, or at least mentioned as little as possible, it would give people much less incentive to follow in their footsteps.
While I agree with much of what you did here, I would be remiss if I did not point out that Dave Cullen’s book is not regarded within the survivor community so highly as it is outside of the community of people who actually lived it. Cullen was an interloper, there to make a buck and flee. Much of what he wrote in that disaster of a book has been contradicted by those people who were most directly impacted by the actions of those boys.
If we still treating killers like someone we should don't talk about or trying to hide those things of the others,things would keep getting worst,trust me, they're aren't pure evil they are people who need mental treatment
Yeah, one of the most painful things hearing about these individuals is how many red flags were there and no one listened or thought of how they could help them. They did horrible things, but a recurring theme is them being left alone for far too long
I worry that it's a little unfair and short sighted to blame the increase of violence on the internet alone. There's a LOT that's changed between 1949 and 2023. Human rights are constantly under attack. economic inequality gets worse every year. the flames of the culture war keep getting stoked with new reasons to hate and fear people who are different from the norm. i think the internet has it's part is expediting the symptoms of all of this unrest, but it is not the cause.
Agreed. I never said it was the internet alone which is why I mentioned that not everyone in these spaces goes onto be come a mass shooter. I also said solving this problem is complex. I do think those spaces attract that kind of person though, and it's one factor to look out for.
@@DonnaIRL if you are so concerned about the condition of mental health of men, you must do a video condemning circumc1sion. It's a human rights vi0lations, cr1minal in fact, aimed to effectively destroy male s3xuality. How come society expect us to be healthy when we constantly s3xually frustrated because circumc1sion obliterates all of the erogenous tissue from our bodies. How can you honestly sit there and believe that males in the states aren't put into a s3xual prison from birth, whilst having the nerve to call them "in_cels"?
@@DonnaIRL the problem is NOT complex. It's only complex because you refuse to acknowledge the tremendous injustices that males face in the country. You were taught that womn are oppressed and men are privileged. That lie alone is at the root of mistreatment of men in various areas of human activity
@@claudiakramer4516 men are responsible for 95% of violent crimes. When women commit violent crimes, it is almost always in retaliation to a male abuser... If modern society is causing men to be violent, what is the excuse for the last thousand years? I agree modern (white) men are treated worse than in the past, which is causing the surge of neo nazis. I'd be more inclined to believe that without war, men crave violence. Genetically, men have been bred for war and modern men have never had to fight in a war.
The kids that are rebranding serial killers are the children of those girls we knew in high school that fantasized about Jeff the Killer and Slenderman, I am convinced.
unrelated and i’m saying this not in defense of the columbine shooters but i believe the bombs not exploding was the effect of the manufacturer switching a part from metal to plastic in the pressure cookers not due to their own ineptitude also adam was 20
This is really just society trying to learn to understand mental illness, mental problems, and brains in general in other people and the shit that they do. The fact that it caused some people that are struggling to be encouraged just shows they need better ways of portraying it. You can deliver the same message of how people sometimes come to that point without romanticizing the act. The entire leadup to a story about a shooting could be the sadest most sympathetic thing ever, but the actual shooting needs to be portrayed like the actual horror it is. There needs to be more clarification and more message of how to better deal with things instead as well. It was just done as carelessly as when you paint the bully as the struggling kid when the kid he's bullying may very well be struggling too and just not taking it out on someone else.
The problem is guns. Other countries have violent video games, and poverty and mental illness and all that but people don't have access to automatic rifles and there aren't many mass shootings in other countries like in Europe, Canada, Australia or New Zealand
More specifically I think the biggest problem is 18 year olds having the ability to purchase and own guns. I completely agree with guns in general being the problem I just think the first thing we need to do is push back the legal purchasing age to when the brain is more or fully developed, much like the idea behind the legal drinking age.
You cannot purchase automatic guns. There are semi-auto and you have to go through background checks through the government. We have more guns than people and a small blip die from homicide.
oh boy this one’s gonna be a doozy These people are the worst and unfortunately there’s been a rise for the love of serial killers and it sickens me that these sick people are celebrated and romanticized
@@smolcutie1773 It makes sense though. People research killers because they are different and cunning. But the victims are just regular people like you and me. So it is unfortunate but the killers will always be more interesting and known to the vicims
@Y I like searching cases of true crime and let me tell you the "different and cunning" type of killers are the minority. Most killers are stupid af and are immediately caught by the police.
@@smolcutie1773 it's a real mystery why people arent as interested in ordinary people dying + yeah bc the cops are only good at catching the dumb ones, they get lucky sometimes. many manage to go undetected for years and many got off scot-free in unsolved cases
I got recommended this after watching a video on the sandy hook shooting and the only sigma or alpha male in the story was not the shooter but the janitor rick Thorne who first confronted the shooter and then after failing to stop him made his way through the school risking running into the shooter again and being killed so he could alert others to the situation now that's a true alpha male right there
18:47 Regarding the repressed homosexuality-- it has always fascinated me that two of the most popular icons of Internet masculinity (American Psycho, Fight Club) come from books written by gay men. There's something tragic about these guys being obsessed with men/masculinity but having no healthy psychological outlet for it. fortunately, I think we're getting more ways to cope with those feelings.
the basement tapes were never released, those are homevideos from their peers or themselves for school projects. this whole thing seems ill-researched...
The solution is simple: Treat people with respect. Even if they look ugly or live in their moms basement. Dont treat a person like an alien just because hes a little different from the rest. The problem is society doesnt want to admit being guilty of discrimination and bullying and thus doesnt want to fix the root cause of the problem
The funniest bit is that the sigma male was originally an ironic meme to be used for the dumb redpill youtubers spewing bullshit about alpha and beta. it's become exactly what it was originally made to make fun of. You can't make this shit up.
I always why not let them be anonymous or just call them something like "small **** Dave" instead of calling them mysterious names (This is more of a joke since it too would have it's disadvantages, but making them anonymous would be enough).
3:50 That reaction right there, that's why. It's funny to them because it causes a reaction in people. They're fishing for that reaction is part of the reason.
no its not. tcc rather not want antis and outsiders attenting one look at tcctwt and youll see how fustrated they are when these videos are made. they dont want your attention they want you to leave them alone.
@@wurmhole That's a possibility, but also, speaking as if everyone in the whole community thinks one specific way and none of them want attention is just not correct. There can be a general way of thinking, but to assume they all think one way is just narrow minded. Even my previous statement I retract. I do know there are people that look for reactions and someone making a cute uwu kawaii collage of a mass murderer seems to me like that would be the reason. It's funny to them and if it's edgy usually edgy peeps be looking for a reaction either good or bad (what i've noticed). But also I could be wrong, that's my interpretation of their art. But yeah, knowing exactly what they were thinking when they made that art is unknown.
@@theorangecollective.7663 it’s true I am actually in this community and they HATE attention they hated when dahmer came out cus it gave tcc attention they hate videos like these cus they give attention it’s literally known that tcc hate getting attention cus it causes a purge on social media. Plus they make meme and art for people in the community not people outside the community.
What about the Bath schoolhouse massacre on 1927? 49 people were killed. Or the University of texas shooting in 1966? 18 were killed Cleveland elementary school shooting in 1979? Uiryeong massacre in 1982, 52 were killed 1984 McDonald’s shooting? 1991 Luby’s shooting Port Arthur Massacre in 1996? There have been tons of mass shootings before social media, it’s extremely stupid and ignorant of you to say social media is the problem
Hilarious to me how half of the art you showed, the person posting said somebody else made it and they 'had no idea whose it was' so of course they just posted it themselves for their deranged little collections. Like these people need to be studied in a box.
i actually watched a movie called 'i'm not ashamed.' focusing about the story of one of the columbine high school shooting victims. it was a really good movie and if you can find the movie you should see it. i don't remember much of it tho as i saw it about a year ago.
I think it's ok to empathize with criminals, even killers. But there's a difference between empathizing and excusing or forgiving or even idealizing. Mass murderers are bad people who made wrong choices and intentionally harmed those around them. Yes they are human, but they have to take accountability for their actions. Their victims deserve justice, compassion and healing. Another thing is that there's a misconception about "hurt people hurt others". Many criminals have been abused severely and had terrible lives, but that's not the case for all criminals... Plus, there's an spectrum of abuse too. And not everyone who has been a victim becomes a victimizer. The truth is, people are complex and have different motivations. Even murder can have a wide variety of circumstances and intentions. People are the product of both their systemic conditioning (society, culture), upbringing (nurture, education, environment) and also biology (nature, genetics, personality). Interestingly enough, from what I have read, it's more common for serial killers to have a highly traumatic childhood than it is for mass shooters/school shooters (who often do have anti-social behaviors and feel alienated but usually do have some familial support, and are often motivated by extremist ideology).
Not the point of the video, The point of the video was to demonstrate that the internet rebranded mass killer, Not to get into the shooters themselves.*
@@DonnaIRL Yeah! Since, everything starts from somewhere no matter how small, people definitely saw fame/notoriety with assassination! For me, I can see Columbine being the John Wilkes Booth for mass shootings. And there are definitely way more layers, but I can see the parallels.
While you make lots of money and get lots of attention as a mid Asian woman, Meanwhile your male looksmatch is currently working in a sweat shop factory then throws himself out the window
Omg. This was posted a day ago. How is this internet community still alive! I realized to check the date on this video when you said the IDAHO KILLER had uwu art of him. Whaaaat omg
Dude I'm like 75% sure that half those Tumblr edits and art are ironic, but deff some of them are insane for SURE. It's actually so fucking hilarious tho. The anime columbine girls is fucking comedy gold alright. Fuck them dudes, and anyone tryna make em cool is cringe but I'm all for making fun of them shits for SURE
- Yes, I'm aware there are trolls from the TCC in the comments. Just ignore them. They're probably going through something.
- I see a number of people from the TCC attempting to discredit Dave Cullen and his book. Most of this seems to stem from the fact that he says both boys weren't bullied. Cullen claims this narrative comes from mainstream media sensationalism. See full report here: www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/10/columbine-parkland-gun-crime-dave-cullen
Additionally, no one has provided any sources that debunk Cullen's claims. Cullen cites FBI reports and its team of psychiatrists and psychologists. I'm more inclined to believe those sources than a random internet comment's opinion. I'm open to hearing an opposition to Cullen though, if you provide the source where you drew your conclusion.
- 7:20 is Elephant and not Zero Day
- Lanza was 20
an example of this would be claiming eric and dylan weren't bullied and using dave cullens book as a reference, this is not true at all. if you look at interviews with students from the school, you'd know that they were in fact bullied and quite horribly, even teachers confirmed that bullying at columbine was a huge problem and there was instances where this was brought up yet nothing was done about it. eric and dylan were quoted as being "the bottom of the school" and one notable incident was them having a cup of fecal matter thrown at them. there is plenty of easily accessible information everywhere, i'd really recommend you try look into this more than what is just at surface level. _
@@Yummynomnom123 most people who're aware of the facts of the case wouldn't deny they were bullied, this was acknowledged when it happened. That doesn't excuse them from their actions, nor should it be used to make them martyrs.
hello! i sent you a dm on instagram with sources and some information, it's pretty long and youtube wouldn't let me post it here so i hope that you see it
Yeah I agree, shouldn't be seen as Mary's but they were pushed into this. Either keep existing be8ng run into the ground, live tortured lives or get revenge on society. I restled with the same question
Society gets what it puts out and get what it deserves.
Finance bros and Entrepreneurs have been seen as cool since at least the 80s. American psycho itself was a repudiation of the glorification of Yuppie and Wall Street culture.
It didn’t glorify it. People glorified American psycho
I think they've always been seen as sleezy, I don't know about "cool" what pop culture references from the 80's are you thinking of that branded finance bros as cool?
@@MrTooEarnestOnline repudiation means rejection, i.e. american psycho rejected the cultural glorification of wall street
@@honeyyfern9781 omg. I’m sorry misread what you sent
I would say they've always been seen as a prestigious form of work, similar to being a doctor or engineer. However, I wouldn't say they were always thought of as "cool" (at least when the 2000s came around). You'll even hear some people like Gary V attributing the "glamorization of entrepreneurship" to social media.
I am old enough to remember when Columbine happened. There was a bit of a witch hunt in the weeks and months that followed. All of the kids who regularly wore trench coats were pulled out of class and questioned. I knew one guy who was into chemistry/pyrotechnics and the school administration thought he might be building bombs. Fortunately, nothing bad ever happened at my school, but I have to think those kids were somewhat scarred by the fact that were profiled and presumed to be killers when in fact they just harmless.
Matrix fans were screwed
Lol the only kind of nick name I had was "columbine kid" because I wore a trench coat/ metal band shirts (i still do). Ironically enough that image alone kept people from trying to harass or bully me in high-school. I was bullied pretty mercilessly in elementary school and admittedly related to the columbine shooters somewhat in terms of "the bullied outcast" narrative, but at the end of the day even as a weak and powerless 12 year old I knew that shooting sombody would only create more misery.
My mother when I was in high school during Sandy Hook:
"You are NEVER getting a trench coat!! And why do you love those combat boots?!"
My friends mother in Littleton CO where Columbine happened:
*Takes all of my friend's Marilyn Manson Merch and rips the poster off the wall*
For my school, it was after the Virgina Tech shooting. Even though were on the opposite coast and in the middle of suburbia, they went full on prison-style security - You had to be escorted to and from classes by police or staff, absolutely no talking during lunch (they even made everyone sit seperate from eachother), and the cops themselves patrolled with rifles and shotguns around the campus.
It didn't help that my school was already very heavy handed with their zero tolarance policies so it was hell for a week. After that, the cops put their long guns back on the racks and we were allowed to socialize again outside of classes, but the atmosphere remained tense for the rest of the year.
that entire rest of the year and the ones that followed became HELL for me and my friends because of those fuckwits. it turned into an ABSOLUTE witch hunt, and all before we even knew it would be a regular thing... I can't believe how much it impacted us only to grow up and see little shitlords making a party out of it as some kind of fucked up coping mechanism for how common this stuff has become.
I know they're going through shit but it's so disrespectful to everyone who suffered because those two little dipshits couldn't find something positive to live for in the goddamn late 90s, a really awesome time to be alive. they sucked and I'm just sorry hell isn't real.
regrettably i used to be in this community on tumblr in 2018. i was experiencing untreated mental illness at age 14 and i felt that the community accepted me as an outcast of society. i want to comment on the massive cognitive dissonance these teenagers had, me included.
never once could i stomach photos of the victims, footage of the incidents. clearly i felt disgusted by their crimes but managed to separate the crimes from the perpetrators. lots of members drew the line SOMEWHERE - its funny that the sandy hook shooter is mentioned in the video because i knew many, many people who openly adored the columbine shooters but thought it was disgusting for others to do the same for the sandy hook shooter because "he killed little kids, thats so different to killing teenagers". same goes for the charleston church shooter - people who loved racist, bigoted shooters were derisive of fans of the charleston church shooter because his crime was motivated by race. that's where they drew the line.
lots of the people in the community were teenagers like me who were unfortunately led down a dark hole during a bad period of their life. some were adults, like 30, who were genuinely depraved. there was a big emphasis on bragging about stomaching gore in some parts, lots of blogs who claimed to condone murder, lots of blogs who openly talked about suicidal and homidical thoughts and encouraged others to do so. and then other parts you'd get people reblogging beautiful photos of victims one moment, claiming to be respectful and understanding, and reblogging thirst traps of killers the next. like i said, LOTS of cognitive dissonance.
i am so glad i left this community behind. easily the part of my life im the most embarrassed and genuinely ashamed about.
What interesting insight. We should never judge people like you were as weird but as people who need mental help. I’m so glad you’re doing better
thanks for sharing your story ✨
Now thats some really interesting insight. Thanks for sharing! Glad youre alright now :)
I would turn your shame into finding healing for yourself and know that stories like yours are powerful and can serve to “deprogram” the next wave of children (particularly those I worry about are the Quarantine Kids who had unfettered access to the internet during extreme isolation).
They need your help and by speaking up on this, you can help someone struggling. Much love ❤
Thanks for sharing Amy!
I still remember the time when "sigma male" just portrayed stoic men who continuously sought to become better versions of themselves, but then again, you can never trust the internet to not take things way too far.
It's the same with the gigachad and zyzz memes. Started off as a fun, self-improvement motivational thing but then it became a way for a few people to make fun of others, which is sadly the exact opposite of what the meme was supposed to be intended for. It's a classic case of a small group of "creators" ruining it for everyone.
Sick losers always twist other people's words to suit their beliefs. Nothing new.
Right on Mr. Mozart
The whole Sigma male grindset thing started as a ironic joke that was making fun of the whole alpha and beta shit that redpill youtubers would spew. It's really funny to see people turn this ironic joke into the exact thing it was making fun of.
it still means that, the meaning doesn't change because the internet said so, it's such a tiny fraction of society even on social media that we shouldn't give so much importance to those with the loudest voice
I'm actually trying to write about this to make a small video. The reappropriation of otherwise funny terms. When I saw the term "based" being used to represent sexist behavior towards women I knew something was up. "stay woke" and "sigma male" were both supposed to be jokes making fun a group of people that took these ideas too seriously, and now have somehow come full circle, "based" used to represent being yourself and tolerance, now it's used to describe male chauvinist behavior. It's weird how it efficient the reappropriation of terms has been.
I'm not sure if anyone else agrees with me but I think showing and putting mass shooters faces out into the public gives them what they want. And could be very traumatic for those who have been victim to gun violence or have seen it take place.
Appreciate the feedback. I did a video a few years ago about mass shootings where I did blur out their faces and even their names. I received comments saying I didn't need to do that because everyone already knew who they were. I will perhaps go back to blurring faces/names in future videos if everyone agrees that this is the best way to approach this topic!
@@DonnaIRL ngl I think it's better to show the faces because it makes you remember, that even though all killers look happy, nice, approachable, whatever, they STILL can be purely evil on the inside. It makes you cautios in life so you know that no matter how charming stranger for example can be, you shouldnt 100% trust them.
@@DonnaIRL maybe a better alternative would be to provide a content warning at the start?
This always rubbed me the wrong way. Women being all like “This guy that would have killed me if I was there is a total steamy hunk”
Yeah and not only with mass shooters but with serial killers as well. Like I can admit that some of them might be attractive but that's it. People often forget that these are real human beings and not some TV show we're talking about, these killers aren't edgy characters you can thirst over and make fanart and fanfics about. PEOPLE DIED. Show some respect to the victims and their families.
I caN ChaNGe tHeM
Don’t blame women on this, how different are you from inc*l k*llers?
As we see from the video, the people who admire these murderers are severely mentally ill and need mental help. So if you somehow know someone who does this, ask a professional counselor
@@theshire9173 you need help to see that theres nothing wrong with it especially if they arent harming anyone who cares, at that point its just your morality.
Well, I'm glad we're not just pretending this isn't an issue with men. If all these sh00ters were women, people wouldn't be able to stop talking about it. But since they're men, it's like it's just accepted by society without addressing the fact that this has everything to do with men's mental health, how men's mental health is viewed by society as this "lesser issue" of sorts, and how men (the ones that need to speak about it the most) are often the one's shaming other men instead of eliminating the stigma that these guys deal with. They only say "what about men's mental health?" And "no one cares when you're a guy" when they're trying to start arguments in spaces specifically for women's mental health. But if they really cared, they'd talk about it on their own channels and pages, not just attacking women for being openly vulnerable in their own safe spaces. Men shouldn't just say "put it into the gym" and "put it into the grind" while dismissing the actual mental health issues men face. They should encourage judgment-free environments where they can chip away at all the stigma, help men who need therapy to actually get it, to change the narrative on men's mental health as a whole, just like women did, and encourage friends/family/peers to stop making a mockery of men's mental health and actually be a support system for these guys. Instead of putting men in these boxes like "sigma male", "alpha male", ect, they should be allowed to just exist and be who they are without being called "simps" if they're kind people or in love with someone, and "beta" if they don't possess arbitrary traits and items that men are "supposed" to have. If they could look to healthy examples of men, they wouldn't have to see themselves as outcasts and look up to criminals as role models instead.
Well put. I agree, men should feel safe being themselves without being judged by other men and also by women. I hope Millennials and Gen Z are making it better for men to be more open with each other. As a woman, in my experiences, I feel like men are too scared to open up about things that they should talk about and it makes me feel bad that they may not able to do that with their "best" friends.
@@biteofdog I agree, though I feel like men (and other women) blame women enough as it is when in reality, it's a men's issue. I think women should be allies, sure, but I don't think they should be the ones to single-handedly change the narrative around men's mental health. Just like I think men should be allies to women's mental health without claiming to know exactly what it's like to be a woman or anything like that. Women simply will never know what it's like to be a man and because of that, I think it's important that men set healthy examples for other men and I think society as a whole should all destigmatize men getting the help and support they might desperately need
To be fair, the gym is a tool guys use to deal with these emotions, guys by default externalise emotions they feel and since it's difficult to find a therapist who is a guy and gets it the gym is better than other ways.
@@Dracon7601 While exercising in general is good for anyone's mental health, and can help with feelings of stress, anxiety, and depression, that alone won't cure clinical depression, help a man work through trauma, or help him process emotions other than anger. Men need to be allowed to have and express a wide array of emotions other than anger, as well as get to the root as to why they might be feeling so angry in the first place without judgement, shame, or scrutiny. Rather than being told to just "power through it" and "let it out" in the gym. All that serves in that situation is as a bandaid. And men don't externalize emotions "by default" much differently than women. It's just that society has conditioned men to think that the only emotions they're allowed to show is anger, happiness (regardless of if it's real and usually over sports teams winning or something), and not much in between. It's a social issue that's often being dismissed as a biological one. Anger is often used to mask other emotions like sadness and fear, but men have heard, often from other men (including their father in many cases), that they'll be seen as "weak", "effeminate", "a p*$$y", and so many other trigger words to shame them into a permanent state of masking. (which is the propensity people feel to hide their emotions or personality traits in specific situations). No one should be masking literally all the time in every single situation for their entire life. Also, male therapists can easily be found in whichever area they live in if they feel their therapist must be male. Google is a great tool for that. And men can work with their primary care doctors with setting up therapy and specifically request a list of male therapists that they can choose from. Additionally, if the social landscape can change by destigmatizing actual mental health care from professionals, and change people's attitudes in general surrounding men's mental health, more and more organizations will be created to meet growing demand, just like it did for women. But it starts with men. They're largely the ones that stray other men from getting the help they need and dismiss other men's issues. Men should support other men in getting better rather than "supporting" each other only in crimes or hate against people that aren't like them (i.e. different race, sexual orientation, women, and even other men that think differently than them). There have been too many people making too many excuses as to why men's mental health isn't important and it needs to end. Because if the current ways men deal with things was working, we wouldn't have so many men committing violent and unspeakable acts on themselves and others
@@potatoking8644 You can't even talk about mens problems without women barging in about how female problems are more important.
Most men don't ignore mental health concerns because of other men, they ignore them because they don't want to be viewed negatively by women.
"Love Is more valuable than anything I know" comes from one of the killer's (Don't remember his name but the blonde one) diary where he expresses that love was his only desire in life
I think the root issue is these kids feeling unloved, or not "enough". It's up to their parents to instill that security and sense of belonging in them.
It's definitely more easily said than done when there's a lack of time/money/resources/knowledge. It's also very possible that these parents are still troubled from their own childhoods.
Generational trauma is rough.
I agree. I feel as a society we need to put an emphasis on mental health care and supports/screenings for parents. So many children (myself included) grew up insecurely broken homes. And while not all children end up taking it out in horrific ways, some do or at least have thoughts of doing so. And when these traumatized children become adults, they're expected to get over their trauma and be functional
We essentially break children and expect to be "functional". Which just represses the trauma and leads to expressing it in toxic ways
They can get over it. Everyone has felt like they’re not enough at some point, yet the rest of us don’t literally idolize losers that killed people💀
thing is, some of these kids ARE loved or have great lives, so u can't even use that as an excuse.
@@toyafanexactly. There’s hella kids out there without good loving homes yet they ain’t out here shooting up schools left and right. Like you said to a lot of them come from good homes. Sadly just many demented human beings exist like the news lady said. No bullying existed as they were popular in Columbine and had dates to Prom also. Out of pure evil these boys committed these crimes
Your videos never disappoint, Donna!
👍THE VIDEO PEOPLE!
Brilliant analysis as always ✊
Thanks for existing Tay! ❤
Mass Shootings are also causes of Online Erratic Discourse probably, you should make more interesting videos too though..
TayZonday replies are like a verified badge
Nah, this video is riddled with inaccuracies. The basement tapes were NEVER released. She's lying.
@@charliesav4902 wtf does chocolate rain know about mental illness and mass shooters?
This just shows that if it’s a thing that exists, someone has a fetish for it. Kind of like a demand for Rule 34’s supply.
The clips you showed weren’t of the basement tapes, they were just home movies. The basement tapes were never released to the public and never will be. Also Adam Lanza was 20, not 27
i was just writing an essay on the topic of the radicalization of masculinity. this video couldn't have come out at a better time. great as always
You are so good at what you do.
I’m 42, so I remember Columbine well (from an outside perspective). I mention Columbine because it became the first widespread fandom regarding such horrific actions. Bizarre in and of itself. Back then, it WAS based on this idea of bullied “losers” getting revenge. When it doesn’t even seem that Eric and Dylan were bullied or disliked. So even THAT was, based on what any outsider could know, not a truth.
In my opinion, based on absolutely nothing but my observation of cultural changes, the shift in the way these killers are viewed happened due to societal shifts. What used to be considered nerdy or geeky became cool. So what was an outcast over 20 years ago would not be today.
This may seem like a very strange reference, but take the Weird Al parody ‘White and Nerdy’. EVERYTHING Al raps about as nerdy back then is stuff that everyone thinks is cool now. People are still mean, don’t get me wrong, but in general calling someone a nerd isn’t even an insult anymore.
I haven't even spent 5 minuets in and I completely agree with the main premise. There is something sick about how Mass Murderers have been lauded as some of the most cunning amongst humanity, when in reality the opposite is true; not being able to lose, tolerate rejection, deal with life and stress; makes you a *LOSER* (assuming you also have nefarious thoughts about humanity in your head)
4:12 thats a literal movie
Yea the person who made this video completely misunderstands these shootings
I think one aspect of radicalization that people neglect, maybe on purpose as a cope to not feel like any of us are responsible, is that there's a reason these individuals go to those niche groups... they're the only ones that don't condescend/dismiss them when they bring up their concerns or observations. There's no charitability, and no empathy towards individuals who may feel disenfranchised when it comes to specific subjects. Inceldom being one of the current movements that's being demonized and stigmatized by professionals, institutions and authority figures.
I dont think pre-emptively seeking radicalization is the solution to these issues. We become exterminators of dissent, instead of publically engaging in these conversations so that people can choose for themselves where they stand, but instead we refuse to have conversations because of optics, or the consequence of optics.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying they're justified for their harmful actions, don't @me with that.
I believe a lot of this starts from the top down. Our leaders are failing us. Often times the only form of emotional or logical validation people need, or respectful conversations, coming from "radicals" or professionals tucked behind paywalls.
As someone with intrusive thoughts, I was shamed a lot for them and I ended up pushing myself away from people. I feel bad because I (who was a teen when it was the worst) really glorified pedophiles, I excused their actions, romantized them, wanted them to like me and when I was as young as 13 I dated multiple 20 year olds.
People shamed me for these intrusive thoughts, made me think that’s what I was really like, and it caused me to surround myself with people who didn’t shame me and glorified the same people aswell, so I kinda agree..
@Osaki unfortunately I see this happen a lot. I worked with the homeless population and that seemed to be a common story, as well as a lack of understanding/empathy regarding addiction.
I'm glad you managed to become self aware of it enough to be able to speak on it. I wish it was more common
It depends on the thoughts but fundamentally therapy is a tool which men in general fail to make use of. Fundamentally these guys don't seem to have or really try to make genuine friendships first and that's a huge part of why they fall to radicalisation.
@Daniel Adeyemi I wouldn't dismiss them by saying they don't try or don't make use of something that isn't easily accessible. Businesses like Better Help made it easier but ive personally spoken with men who have used it and although it has helped them in some regards, they don't really like the therapist they were assigned. It's not an easy "as long as they seek professional help and take it seriously, they'll be alrigh." It's oversimplifying a complex issue.
This is an amazing coverage of the subject, extremely pertinent and well explored. I dated a Roblox moderator who coursed psychology, she often talked about the same points you're making.
Women went to the courtroom to flirt with Ted Bundy. This isnt really a new thing.
I know the mother of a man killed in the Virginia Tech shooting. She is the sweetest, kindest person I know. It absolutely enrages me that the person who killed her son, made such an amazing woman go through so much pain, is idolized and romanticized. I understand having an interest in true crime, but I’ll never understand this. Remember Ryan Clark instead of the shooter. He died protecting a fellow student
Yeah remember Ryan Clark the boring kid that had a boring life an average basic life why the fuck would I remember him
who gives a shit, me not idolizing the shooter won't bring any of the victims back
We've been having more mass/ school shootings this past 2 years than we had in history. I 100% it has to do with the fascination of serial killers and social media combined.
Another Donna vid!
Your audio has been on point, especially with the great microphone placement--keep it up!
The mainstream media did this way before the internet.
Probably more disappointing part of knowing about the fan base made is knowing it's made in russian language too. This tragedy exists in my country as well. Breaks my heart to see "ненависть" 8:22
Hi:) I'm a Columbine researcher and I just wanted to throw in that Dave Cullen's Columbine book is pretty unanimously considered biased and stereotypical, and generally disliked by the majority of Columbine researchers ! I've seen some people promoting it as a good explaination of the story but I just wanted to mention that it's not really great and if you're interested in the case, I recommend reading something else. That's all:)
Which book is considered better?
@@egg_bun_ Jeff Kass', "Columbine: A True Crime Story" and Rita Gleason's, "Evidence Ignored: What You May Not Know About Columbine" are good starters.
Otherwise RUclips has better videos out there. Such as, The Columbine Iceberg series by Restraining Disorder, NationSquid's two videos: Columbine The Big Picture (part 1) + Columbine - A New World (part 2) and lastly Zero Hour: Massacre at Columbine High is great as well. Though keep in mind the last one was released in 2004 so there are some bigger inaccuracies but much, MUCH better than Dave Cullen's work of fiction.
Then there's also the subreddits r/Columbine and r/ColumbineKillers if you're on Reddit.
Edit: Personally if you're going to read Kass and Gleason's books, I'd recommend going in the order I listed them. As for the videos I'd recommend going Zero Hour, NationSquid then the Iceberg series. But at the end of the day it's up to you and how you wanna do it!
@@egg_bun_ A Mother's Reckoning by Sue Klebold (Dylan Klebold, one of the shooters, 's mother)
Thank you! I was hoping someone in the comments was going to mention how awful that book is.
@@DumpsterBB No probb I gotcha
Yea as a 2015 columbine girly it's a fucking wild to look back on those days. But Dave Cullen is the shittest representation you could possibly find. Dude had a hard on for dylan worse than most girls in the TCC did.
She doesn’t care about facts she just want to slander the shooters cause she’s scared of thier fans
its crazy how people think 1999 was the first year of school shootings
The bullying stops when the shooting starts.
Leaving a like and comment for the algorithm. I cannot watch, but thank you for the video!
Thank you. See you next time :)
so sad none of my edits were shown :c
16:10 Lanza was only 20 at the time of his death
Thanks for reminding me why the internet was a mistake.
I got chills when you mentioned Alvaro castillo because he tried to shoot up my old high school and he used to ride me and my sisters bus 😬
I feel you. I live 2 miles from Sandy Hook and Adam Lanza's house. Lost people I knew that day. Hope you're doing well today 🖤🤍
@@babyinvasionwho were the ppl you knew?
I have been watching your videos for a couple years now and have to say that the amount of humor and the different style (green screen mostly) in this video have been quite refreshing, great work as usual, can't believe this is free, thanks for the video
4:11 thats a movie, not an actual killing
most killers do it bc they find it fun. there's no complex explanation, idk why that's so hard for you to grasp
9:47 "you'll all know who I am." I'm pretty sure that's all these guys care about, and any video about them, including this one, is giving them that satisfaction, whether they're here to receive it or not. That just inspires more depraved people to do the same thing, knowing that if it got attention for those guys, it'll get attention for them as well. It's very hard to become famous for doing good, but it's extremely easy to get famous for doing evil. I'm not here to hate on this video at all, but I think if the identities of these killers were kept private, or at least mentioned as little as possible, it would give people much less incentive to follow in their footsteps.
While I agree with much of what you did here, I would be remiss if I did not point out that Dave Cullen’s book is not regarded within the survivor community so highly as it is outside of the community of people who actually lived it. Cullen was an interloper, there to make a buck and flee. Much of what he wrote in that disaster of a book has been contradicted by those people who were most directly impacted by the actions of those boys.
I'd like to mention that the "fact" that eric and dylan weren''t bullied was false btw.
Exactly
You can be both liked and bullied. You can have a small group of friends and still be outcasts. It was a large school.
I miss 2021 where the sigma male trend was just an ironic meme that was never meant to be taken seriously
btw I was bullied to hell and back, my only escape was video games, and never hurt anybody.
Anyway thanks for the video
Because of the now common practice of not saying the names of the shooters I am hearing some of their names for the first time in this video.
4:09 that is a movie called Zero Day. Characters are fictional but based on c0lumbin3
If we still treating killers like someone we should don't talk about or trying to hide those things of the others,things would keep getting worst,trust me, they're aren't pure evil they are people who need mental treatment
Yeah, one of the most painful things hearing about these individuals is how many red flags were there and no one listened or thought of how they could help them. They did horrible things, but a recurring theme is them being left alone for far too long
I worry that it's a little unfair and short sighted to blame the increase of violence on the internet alone. There's a LOT that's changed between 1949 and 2023. Human rights are constantly under attack. economic inequality gets worse every year. the flames of the culture war keep getting stoked with new reasons to hate and fear people who are different from the norm. i think the internet has it's part is expediting the symptoms of all of this unrest, but it is not the cause.
Agreed. I never said it was the internet alone which is why I mentioned that not everyone in these spaces goes onto be come a mass shooter. I also said solving this problem is complex. I do think those spaces attract that kind of person though, and it's one factor to look out for.
@@DonnaIRL if you are so concerned about the condition of mental health of men, you must do a video condemning circumc1sion. It's a human rights vi0lations, cr1minal in fact, aimed to effectively destroy male s3xuality. How come society expect us to be healthy when we constantly s3xually frustrated because circumc1sion obliterates all of the erogenous tissue from our bodies. How can you honestly sit there and believe that males in the states aren't put into a s3xual prison from birth, whilst having the nerve to call them "in_cels"?
@@DonnaIRL the problem is NOT complex. It's only complex because you refuse to acknowledge the tremendous injustices that males face in the country. You were taught that womn are oppressed and men are privileged. That lie alone is at the root of mistreatment of men in various areas of human activity
@@claudiakramer4516 men are responsible for 95% of violent crimes. When women commit violent crimes, it is almost always in retaliation to a male abuser...
If modern society is causing men to be violent, what is the excuse for the last thousand years?
I agree modern (white) men are treated worse than in the past, which is causing the surge of neo nazis. I'd be more inclined to believe that without war, men crave violence. Genetically, men have been bred for war and modern men have never had to fight in a war.
The kids that are rebranding serial killers are the children of those girls we knew in high school that fantasized about Jeff the Killer and Slenderman, I am convinced.
unrelated and i’m saying this not in defense of the columbine shooters but i believe the bombs not exploding was the effect of the manufacturer switching a part from metal to plastic in the pressure cookers not due to their own ineptitude
also adam was 20
I'd never heard about Lanzas spreadsheet on mass killers.
It’s conversations like this we need to identify any and all causing factors of these tragedies
This is really just society trying to learn to understand mental illness, mental problems, and brains in general in other people and the shit that they do. The fact that it caused some people that are struggling to be encouraged just shows they need better ways of portraying it. You can deliver the same message of how people sometimes come to that point without romanticizing the act.
The entire leadup to a story about a shooting could be the sadest most sympathetic thing ever, but the actual shooting needs to be portrayed like the actual horror it is.
There needs to be more clarification and more message of how to better deal with things instead as well.
It was just done as carelessly as when you paint the bully as the struggling kid when the kid he's bullying may very well be struggling too and just not taking it out on someone else.
I'm inclined to blame Tate Langdon.
Cultured comment
Tate is a fictional character.
excellent video!!!!! so glad you covered this topic
the amount of misinformation in this video is so icky maybe it’s unintentional but eh
Definitely not.
Fr
The problem is guns. Other countries have violent video games, and poverty and mental illness and all that but people don't have access to automatic rifles and there aren't many mass shootings in other countries like in Europe, Canada, Australia or New Zealand
More specifically I think the biggest problem is 18 year olds having the ability to purchase and own guns. I completely agree with guns in general being the problem I just think the first thing we need to do is push back the legal purchasing age to when the brain is more or fully developed, much like the idea behind the legal drinking age.
You cannot purchase automatic guns. There are semi-auto and you have to go through background checks through the government. We have more guns than people and a small blip die from homicide.
Y’all literally the type to call anyone who criticizes this video a mass murder Stan.
oh boy this one’s gonna be a doozy
These people are the worst and unfortunately there’s been a rise for the love of serial killers and it sickens me that these sick people are celebrated and romanticized
Yeah and it's really unfair that everyone knows the killers names and backgrounds but almost no one knows the names of the victims and their lives.
@@smolcutie1773 the fact that I don’t know a single name of any of the victims speaks volumes
@@smolcutie1773 It makes sense though. People research killers because they are different and cunning. But the victims are just regular people like you and me. So it is unfortunate but the killers will always be more interesting and known to the vicims
@Y I like searching cases of true crime and let me tell you the "different and cunning" type of killers are the minority. Most killers are stupid af and are immediately caught by the police.
@@smolcutie1773 it's a real mystery why people arent as interested in ordinary people dying + yeah bc the cops are only good at catching the dumb ones, they get lucky sometimes. many manage to go undetected for years and many got off scot-free in unsolved cases
The RUclips algorithm hates you, I hope that changes because your content is very well made
im so happy i got the help i needed to leave that stupid community. actual mental health problems.
24:15 *" ..but after getting therapy and * finding new and better interests." *
If we remember nothing else from this vid...❤
at 4:10 , those are fictional charracters, cal gabriel and andre kreigman from the movie zero day from 2003.
The basement tapes were never released
good lord it is brave to work on this subject. 2min in and I can hardly believe that you are.
I got recommended this after watching a video on the sandy hook shooting and the only sigma or alpha male in the story was not the shooter but the janitor rick Thorne who first confronted the shooter and then after failing to stop him made his way through the school risking running into the shooter again and being killed so he could alert others to the situation now that's a true alpha male right there
Thanks as always for the awesome work Donna!
the basement tapes weren’t even released
Donna you don’t get enough credit for your work. This is TV doc level production
18:47 Regarding the repressed homosexuality-- it has always fascinated me that two of the most popular icons of Internet masculinity (American Psycho, Fight Club) come from books written by gay men.
There's something tragic about these guys being obsessed with men/masculinity but having no healthy psychological outlet for it. fortunately, I think we're getting more ways to cope with those feelings.
the basement tapes were never released, those are homevideos from their peers or themselves for school projects. this whole thing seems ill-researched...
It extremely is she’s so stupid
that south park quote threw me off, hehe
still, this is an interesting look, I especially like the comparison between pre- and post-y2k numbers
The solution is simple: Treat people with respect. Even if they look ugly or live in their moms basement. Dont treat a person like an alien just because hes a little different from the rest. The problem is society doesnt want to admit being guilty of discrimination and bullying and thus doesnt want to fix the root cause of the problem
@@Weeniehutnurse im simply pointing out the cause
Respect and kindness goes a long way.
The funniest bit is that the sigma male was originally an ironic meme to be used for the dumb redpill youtubers spewing bullshit about alpha and beta. it's become exactly what it was originally made to make fun of. You can't make this shit up.
So a sigma male is an introvert, that’s a sigma male.
I always why not let them be anonymous or just call them something like "small **** Dave" instead of calling them mysterious names (This is more of a joke since it too would have it's disadvantages, but making them anonymous would be enough).
3:50 That reaction right there, that's why. It's funny to them because it causes a reaction in people. They're fishing for that reaction is part of the reason.
no its not. tcc rather not want antis and outsiders attenting one look at tcctwt and youll see how fustrated they are when these videos are made. they dont want your attention they want you to leave them alone.
@@wurmhole That's a possibility, but also, speaking as if everyone in the whole community thinks one specific way and none of them want attention is just not correct. There can be a general way of thinking, but to assume they all think one way is just narrow minded.
Even my previous statement I retract. I do know there are people that look for reactions and someone making a cute uwu kawaii collage of a mass murderer seems to me like that would be the reason. It's funny to them and if it's edgy usually edgy peeps be looking for a reaction either good or bad (what i've noticed). But also I could be wrong, that's my interpretation of their art. But yeah, knowing exactly what they were thinking when they made that art is unknown.
@@theorangecollective.7663 it’s true I am actually in this community and they HATE attention they hated when dahmer came out cus it gave tcc attention they hate videos like these cus they give attention it’s literally known that tcc hate getting attention cus it causes a purge on social media. Plus they make meme and art for people in the community not people outside the community.
Hahaha..."stray man." "Hey mom! I found a stray man under our porch! Can we keep him?"
If there wasn't social media then this problem would not exist
Also, there should be laws that the media cannot feature images or footage of the shooter(s) to help avoid glorifying them.
Social Media wasn't really a problem in 1999. Shootings happened before the internet.
there have been fangirls of murderers well before the internet. ted bundy? richard ramirez?
What about the Bath schoolhouse massacre on 1927? 49 people were killed.
Or the University of texas shooting in 1966? 18 were killed
Cleveland elementary school shooting in 1979?
Uiryeong massacre in 1982, 52 were killed
1984 McDonald’s shooting?
1991 Luby’s shooting
Port Arthur Massacre in 1996?
There have been tons of mass shootings before social media, it’s extremely stupid and ignorant of you to say social media is the problem
You and Visual Venture should totally collab
Hilarious to me how half of the art you showed, the person posting said somebody else made it and they 'had no idea whose it was' so of course they just posted it themselves for their deranged little collections. Like these people need to be studied in a box.
7:20 Not Zero Day, thats a movie called 'Elephant'
thanks will pin a correction in the comments
i actually watched a movie called 'i'm not ashamed.' focusing about the story of one of the columbine high school shooting victims. it was a really good movie and if you can find the movie you should see it. i don't remember much of it tho as i saw it about a year ago.
Yeah man, this video makes my stomach churn and gets me really upset.
love your videos since forever!
Donna, your content is always a 100 on a scale of 1-10!
I don’t like the implication that only man can do ss
But it’s true women almost never do it try to find them and compare them percentagewise
I always look forward to your videos!
Satire is the darkest and most evil of all comedy. I think you'll understand that all this rebranding began as jokes.
4:13 This is a fictional movie called zero day
I think it's ok to empathize with criminals, even killers. But there's a difference between empathizing and excusing or forgiving or even idealizing. Mass murderers are bad people who made wrong choices and intentionally harmed those around them. Yes they are human, but they have to take accountability for their actions. Their victims deserve justice, compassion and healing. Another thing is that there's a misconception about "hurt people hurt others". Many criminals have been abused severely and had terrible lives, but that's not the case for all criminals... Plus, there's an spectrum of abuse too. And not everyone who has been a victim becomes a victimizer. The truth is, people are complex and have different motivations. Even murder can have a wide variety of circumstances and intentions. People are the product of both their systemic conditioning (society, culture), upbringing (nurture, education, environment) and also biology (nature, genetics, personality). Interestingly enough, from what I have read, it's more common for serial killers to have a highly traumatic childhood than it is for mass shooters/school shooters (who often do have anti-social behaviors and feel alienated but usually do have some familial support, and are often motivated by extremist ideology).
You failed to point out Adam's anorexia. Plus he was 20, not 27. And only killed 26.
Not the point of the video, The point of the video was to demonstrate that the internet rebranded mass killer, Not to get into the shooters themselves.*
“only killed 26” do you know how fucked that sounds?
Shitty vid has so much misinformation
There's totally a pipeline from presidential assassins to this. I'd say Stephen Sondheim's Assassins really captures this topic well.
the what???
@@DonnaIRL Yeah! Since, everything starts from somewhere no matter how small, people definitely saw fame/notoriety with assassination! For me, I can see Columbine being the John Wilkes Booth for mass shootings. And there are definitely way more layers, but I can see the parallels.
While you make lots of money and get lots of attention as a mid Asian woman, Meanwhile your male looksmatch is currently working in a sweat shop factory then throws himself out the window
😂😂😂😂
Omg. This was posted a day ago. How is this internet community still alive! I realized to check the date on this video when you said the IDAHO KILLER had uwu art of him. Whaaaat omg
One thing I try to remind people of is this.. there is no rhyme or reason to madness.
I’ll tell you what the reason is. It’s one big fuck you with a barrel of misanthropy
Dude I'm like 75% sure that half those Tumblr edits and art are ironic, but deff some of them are insane for SURE. It's actually so fucking hilarious tho. The anime columbine girls is fucking comedy gold alright. Fuck them dudes, and anyone tryna make em cool is cringe but I'm all for making fun of them shits for SURE
THE SIGMA MALE = THE EYES OF THE EAGLE AND THE SPIRIT OF THE WOLF AND THE BEAR THAT WALK ALONE
Dave Cullens book has been proved to be extremely inacurate. You have gotten alot wrong in this video...Lol.
Excellent content!
I have no words