Jen Shah, Mormon Influencers, And The Pyramid Scheme Of Prosperity Gospel
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
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In this video, Chelsea dives into the world of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City to talk about Jen Shah and the historical precedence of pyramid scheme-ing among those who preach or practice the "prosperity gospel."
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Chelsea, congratulations on your amazing podcast. Why are so many of your videos out of focus? the background is in Focus while your face is not. I am a professional videographer and if you need any help at all with setting up the camera or your phone, I will be glad to walk you through it!
My parents (especially my dad) got roped into prosperity gospel and it contributed to them not only constantly being in financial ruin, but feeling ashamed and thinking they weren't a "good enough" Christian.
My mom got into it too. She gave her church tens of thousands of dollars (probably more) because she was a member for 50 years. When she died she left 99 percent of her money to the church. She even left them her new car that was less than 6 months old. Unfortunately, we didn’t have a relationship for years before she died because she was just so toxic. If you weren’t part of her religion you weren’t part of her life. She had adopted my sister son (long story) who had several medical needs and is autistic and didn’t leave him hardly anything either. Supposedly, the church was going to look after him. They dropped him like left week’s leftovers as soon as she was in the ground. They actually said he could no longer be a member of their church. It’s disgusting to me!!
Same!
Wow this is deep
Current Mormon here. I saw the title and was a little worried about watching this video but decided to watch it anyway. Thank you for being respectful of my religion while you talked about this topic.
With that said, I really appreciated what you said about prosperity gospel. I didn't even realize this concept had a name, but this makes so much sense to me. And in my opinion, my church's culture hits on this way too hard.
I've seen crazy things happen time and time again with women (mostly SAHMs) that I've known since I was a kid. There is one in particular person I'm thinking of. Years ago, she tried multiple times to rope me into her MLM, and when I got a close enough look at what she was actually doing, she was so shady about it. I yeeted out of that situation real fast. But to this day, she still puts up a front about this business that makes her life seem perfect and doesn't show a smidge of guilt about taking advantage of other women who want a life like hers.
I do have to say that thanks to companies like TFD and the general education and awareness of people's different circumstances, I think Mormons are becoming less naive (at least, I feel like I am). Hopefully we can continue evolving more.
Fancy seeing you here! Yeah-I do think we Mormons are prone to prosperity-gospel thinking, even if we wouldn't use that phrase. I've seen it show up quite a bit in church curriculum and other manuals, though I've always tried to push back on that where I can. I personally think it's a nondoctrinal heresy, but it's so inherently appealing: the idea that we can, through faithfulness, directly control the temporal circumstances of our lives. However, this reduces God to a vending machine for blessings, and we ignore grace in favor of a mistaken view that we deserve or have earned certain blessings.
Wow. I really appreciate this type of content. People (Americans) have a clear aversion to critiquing westernized Christianity and their true religion... Capitalism.
@TampaDoll Mormons believe in Jesus
@TampaDoll the false narrative of "the war on Christmas" says otherwise. Sure you can critique Christianity in the west but be prepared for something as simple as "prosperity gospel is harmfull to those who partake in it" to be spun out by right wing media as "they're trying to destroy Christianity!"
Being critical of other faiths is fine as well but the right has a really hard time doing it without being overtly racist about it at the same time. That's where a lot of their commentators trip up. Instead of judging the faith they'll judge an entire culture and they just can't help but drag skin tone into their supposedly objective critiques.
Ehh I disagree with this. Many Americans critique Christianity and capitalism (especially the younger generations). I actually just came from a Tiffany Ferg video where she was doing just that. Then again, I think our perception is skewed based on the kind of media we consume, where we're located, who our social circle includes, etc. So while I think these discussions are common, you may not feel the same.
@TampaDoll it was interesting for me to read both your comments & the commenters above you. I find Mormonsim to be exceptionally racist, & that's not designed as a dig/grab for response. And I get your point, but I'm not 'screeching' it, I'm validly talking about why it is; exceptionally racist.The whole notion of the tablets, & the ppl that were there "before" (ok completely paraphrasing ) is pretty offensive to Indigenous/First Nations Americans, & the implication that Mormons have some kind of right & title to land.... in a continent where there is no evidence of their habitation (before the "colonistion" of the USA) & the only evidence, & A LOT of evidence, of the habitation & on going connection of Native Americans/First Nations, well in a Hypothetical; it wouldn't be much different than if Mormons in Australia (I'm from Downunder) invented a whole new concept to say that they 'originally' had a branch of them here, at some point, before, invasion/colonisation. For me it IS fundamentally racist, & i'm astounded at Mormons who can still believe in the facets of the religion that teaches & preaches historically inaccurate concepts that have zero archaeological, historical evidence. Obviously I understand that all religions & faith take... well faith. But the ideas that sit at the foundation of the Mormon faith are post colonialist, & deeply racist & highly problematic. They legitimise the advancement of 1 religion & have completely made up concepts about land & presence, over others, & at the same time de-legitimise the space of Indigenous/First Nations Americans in & over their own land. Its appalling & ties into the very deeply racist & ongoing narrative of the colonial & post colonial word. And if these issues are brought up with Mormons: well there goes the shitshow & the shunning etc, the very concepts can not even be discussed, well for me that's not 'culture' that's ideology, very dangerous religious ideology. This also isn't an argument of historical hindsight, the Mormon faith has the ability to right these wrongs in real time, & their concepts are less than 200 & a bit years old. 200 years ago people were battling against slavery & women's suffrage & the destruction of First Nations culture. People's ethnicity & their involvement in culture & religion & then social relationships is very loaded & comes with nuance & I think often the digs on education happen becomes it's exceptionally frustrating for many to see ppl hold to an idea that is awful, hurtful, historically inaccurate, & just not discussed. IE branches of Christianity that profess Homophobic ideas & dogma & teach that, whilst never having ready any historical information about the bible & basically having no understanding of the printing press, the many iterations the Bible went through. It's just, well, plain ignorant. And it's that ignorance that yells these concepts & ideas with megaphone that tends to gets ppls backs up. Mine included. Is it fair to label someone 'uneducated', ok no, because that's a huge assumption, but it is certainly fair to challenge someone on their self righteous belief, & often when that happens we find that those beliefs come directly from the pulpit/parents/political leader, without any other inquiry, or interrogation, or thought, or discussion. Simply responding with "the elders say it's so, it's the word of God, the Devil is in you I'll pray for you" is that rebuttal & lack of 'eduaction' in practice, that fear of having someone point out the problem, I think that's uneducated. And religion often intersects with ethnicity in a hideous way, & religious concepts are used to underline brutal mob behavior. It's concerning to me to see this. I take your point about critiquing culture, but I'm also very much for critiquing all religion/atheism as well, as the cultural practices that are often are problematic, come straight out of a faith belief systems/atheist belief system. (my atheist relative & friends who think that anyone who believes in a God is "dumb" & hold Richard Dawkins up as their God, case in point).
What are you talking about? Christianity (Particularly more extreme or fundamentalist sects) is criticised by Americans all the time, as is 'Capitalism' - in the sense that people argue about the appropriate role of the state in the economy all the time.
Ex-Mormon living in SLC here and my husband and I make jokes about Mormon mommy bloggers (or their followers) because they have a very distinct look that’s borderline a uniform. Wealthier areas like Daybreak and Park City overflow with women with perfectly curled blonde hair (natural or no), wide-brimmed hats, beige ankle boots, light blue skinny jeans, and designer bags hanging from their elbows…and most of them are probably big on essential oils, too 😆
I find these women so interesting because their preoccupation with luxury and their outward appearances is so different from the values that I was taught growing up in the LDS church. 🤷🏻♀️
100% accurate 😂 (I currently live in Utah as well). I likewise find the preoccupation with luxury part interesting.
Wow you summarised them so perfectly. I remember when I joined Instagram and every account that they would recommend me from the drop down menu felt like I was seeing the same women over and over again. It really is like a uniform
@TampaDoll that's because basically they are. The culture is very similar.
I LOVE to look at their profiles to test my Mormondar.
😂😂😂 they are just so cookie cutter is nauseating
Speaking as a former Mormon, (who is currently living with his Mormon parents so shush), everything Chelsea said about Mormon culture is true. I've seen it in my own mother and to a lesser extent my sisters.
There's an entire exmo community on TikTok that covers some more details and let me tell you that rabbit hole is crazy. I guess as someone who was raised Catholic and left it I can relate a bit, but the Mormon Church is on an entirely different level.
Can confirm. I just moved to Utah two months ago, and while speaking with ex-mormons who grew up that way, they'd basically describe it as some culty BS with weird rituals on top.
@Noah Felix Wow I know Mrs Felicia Lynn Victoria. I met her at a conference in carlifornia 2019 where she introduced us her business strategy, she helped me cover my student loans
Dude entire this having fake conversations in your replies
The part about commanding even higher salaries after felony convictions really stuck in my craw. I bet Bravo doesn't even employ custodians with criminal records, but they have no problem putting them on air as the pinnacle of luxury and affluence.
Q: Why so many Mormon Mommy influencers despite many similar encouragements in other faiths?
A: Proselytization - Mormons are taught from a young age that sharing our stories will bring others to the fold.
Thank you for this comment, its so well put! As a former mormon, I agree 1000% encouraged every single day to get a friend from school or a stranger at the store to listen to our story, and that if they followed in what we did, they too could be happy. Its fed to you every waking moment of your life as a child being raised in it.
You know it's a good day when Chelsey is uploading a Pyramid Scheme video (sprinkled with some Religion) E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G
As an LDS member, I can tell you that Prosperity Gospel is a BIG part of Mormonism. It goes further than what you described. The receiving, making and amassing of money shows that God favors you, that you are "good" and "deserving". If you are not wealthy, and God forbid, "poor", then uh oh, you are looked at as having something bad around you, whether or not you know what it is. As far as Mormon mothers, these women are put so far UP on a pedestal, there is no where to go but fall DOWN, because it is almost impossible to live up to. That's why most Mormon wives/mothers are on anti-depressants, because after all, how can one deal with 7 kids under 15; home schooling, spotless clean home, volunteering within the church (known as "callings" and given out by the Bishop of each Ward or congregation), maintaining an impeccable appearance (makeup, hair, nails, no wrinkled clothing), and smiling all through it, without anti-depressants to help make it through the day? Fortunately I'm old and single, so I can get away with a lot more. And the fact that I was not born into the Mormon church, and thus have knowledge of the secular world, also plays a part. Sort of like when the Amish go on rumpspringa.😆
And doing it all without caffeine. I was in the military when they 'converted' me and I was pissed/horrified when the missionary ladies threw away my coffee and tea stash.
I'm a California member of the LDS faith. Maybe it's just different being away from Utah, but that sort of pressure isn't here. I'm interfaith, my husband and I both work, and have two kids. Our home is rarely spotless. I only recently was given a calling, that I get to participate in once a month. It's all doable. Our ward shares so much. We host Dungeons and Dragons twice a week to members and non members alike. I was recently placed on an antidepressant for seasonal depression, related to past trauma this time of the year. It doesn't have anything to do with that pressure of being a member.
We all have a part. And we each contribute where we can. Each person has unique gifts and we are not meant to do it all, or have it all. I've always felt like an imposter when visiting Utah. And if the culture is that pronounced, it's no wonder why. I'm not the LDS model of success or Mom or even wife. Yet I find myself perfectly happy
@@eliserieke9308 Right on.
add no coffee and weighing as close as you can to what you were when you first got married throughout childbearing years
Only in America is being an LDS member THIS weird lol
I am not a Mormon, but grew up in a very strict/fundamentalist Christian church. The MLMs were always running rampant in our church. The most successful of them was the pastors wife, which makes sense because of her existing influence in the church. The success in MLMs within the church definitely depended on your existing popularity and who you hung out with, and if you were a stay at home mom. Prayer meetings were used to dovetail into a sales pitch for cookie Lee while they had your attention.
The sad thing is that stay at most home moms need help out financially and these rip off marketing groups take advantage of that. I was fortunate that I was able to sew really well and did alterations . I cringed at these things. But they are just trying to help ends meet.
That is so beyond mind blowing to me. The fact that this system works and that the congregations actually participate and follow these scams. As a Roman Catholic European it is just UNTHINKABLE to me to connect any type of sales pitch or activity for monetary gain with church. The thought of that pairs as well as orange juice and tooth paste to me and our European Christian values.
My boyfriend grew up mormon, and around his 20’s he officially left the church. We don’t live in the US, but everything said about how mormons obsessed with appearing wealthy is true even here in Mexico… and you can add the hope/obsession to go to the US for college or to live in Utah…
Chelsea once again being the voice of cultural critique that the millennial generation needs. I live for it!
yes!!!
Growing up Mormon, I can attest to all the "ideal" Mormon woman qualities Chelsea mentioned in this video. There is so much social comparison in the church and it's even reinforced by the practice of "sharing our testimonies". I've been inactive for years and have drastically changed my views towards labor and wealth. So imagine my cringe when I visited back and realized how people's testimonies have always been focused on how "blessed" and "favored" they are, as evidenced by their material gains, and how all these are possible solely because they are member of the church or are stringently abiding by its teachings. Also, we're highly discouraged from making comments about public policies and criticizing the government in general 🤷♀️
Ex-evangelical here and I was definitely taught the prosperity gospel. It’s alive and well in America. In theory, you can tell how well someone obeys God by how blessed they are. It’s also called the health and wealth gospel. I’ve never heard it connected to LDS, usually I heard it from Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Hill Songs, and Rhema pastors in general. FYI: I have since left the evangelical faith; you can’t really control what you are taught as a child.
The thing is if people really wanted to believe this then how do they explain rich athiests? Like Bill Gates is currently athiest, Warren Buffet is agnostic, Larry Elison and James Cameron none of them are religious so if your success if related to god then what's their success related to? Satan? I guess everyone will make their excuses, but the idea of prospertiy gospel is still a strange concept to me who's also agnostic.
@@kgal1298 It’s definitely a strange concept. There is usually a correlation between how well off the pastor is (see Kenneth Copeland, etc) and how much they like to preach, “continue to give God your money (by giving your money to me) so that God will bless you”. I forgot to mention that for one to thank God for all their blessings they must tithe and give offerings to the church (10%+ of you gross income). The more you give to “God” (these pastors’ churches), the more blessings God will give you.
It’s literally the gospel of America
@@kgal1298 wait bill gates is now an ex catholic? Did this happen right after his divorce or something?
My family who believe in Christianity always have said god “gives and takes away” and “his ways are higher than ours” for explaining why even really awful people in history or secular people are often wealthy/in leadership.
Also known as word of faith, name it and claim it, gab it and grab it etc.
Evangelical theology exists outside the U.S. - apart from American politics and culture. Of course that culture leaks, but we can watch for it.
As someone who was raised Catholic, it genuinely confuses and amuses me how some sects of Christianity love financial wealth while we were made to basically frown upon it/donate it.
Don't take this as a jab at you but but purely at the Vatican: The Catholic Church frowning upon wealth is... a little disingenuous, isn't it? I mean, the Church being too financially motivated was literally one of the reasons for the reformation.
@@butcheromance The Catholic church is a hypocrite in that sense. I was raised catholic but am atheist so I kinda know how the church is (at least in my country). Even though you see rich churches and old ladies competing about you donates more to charity, you're not drilled about giving money to the church at all. During mass they ask if you can donate something, but if you put a couple of coins in the bag no one will judge you. I was very surprised when I learnt about the prosperity gospel, it sounded very foreign and shady tbh
I was adopted and raised catholic and no not that I saw. But yeah ppl throw some change in a basket during church maybe. Religious charity usually isn’t very charitable. My catholic family raised me in the same way a family in the Christian adoption movement would; a successful adoption is one where I stop worshiping my ancestors and replace it with Catholicism and Christ and western culture. It’s still my wealthy white catholic family getting to raise me because my brown mother was too poor to help other then to have her give away her children. I don’t really feel helped but a family seeing a non baptized person as a blank slate but I wasn’t. It wasn’t charitable it was all about my parents desires over mine and my birth mother. I’ve never seen a catholic I’ve been raised by take donating as a means to self reflect their privilege and do something about the inequity that they touch and affect and benefit from but to add a nice tax write off where they pick a cause they ‘care’ about so much they never learn about its causes just send some money. Or send money to places that will directly benefit their standing in community and gain opportunities for their children.
@@louisachalarca6494 I still believe that everyone has the right to choose what to spend their own donations on. The point of Lala's comment was not that the Catholic Church is not hypocritical, but that Prosperity Gospel is different from other denominations. From other Protestant trends less than from Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I'm orthodox. Jesus in the Bible actually said that it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven if he is not able to easily give up his wealth. Why should you devote your life to the accumulation of wealth if, according to the rules, you must be morally ready to give it up. Many believe that Christianity does not exist in order to make people rich, but in order for poor people to accept their poverty as something normal. And this is critisized. Yes, the Pope in Rome and the Orthodox priests are clearly trying to live like a rich life. Not all, though. But in our Orthodox culture it is customary to despise priests for their greed, and respect those of them who are less stingy.
Could someone please explain prosperity gospel to me a little bit more? I was a bit confused as the definition seemed to be not horrible but the rest of the video made it to be bad.
I’m Muslim living in America but I’ve never heard of this concept. We do agree that the wealth and health you have is from the will of God, but that doesn’t mean that being poor is bad. Just that everything we have in life is decreed for us as a blessing. This, to me, really helps me see the privilege I have because I know that having a roof over my head and food is a blessing that I didn’t necessarily earn. We just view the poor and rich as having different tests in life. The poor have the test of patience but they have the blessing of simplicity and not being distracted by materialism. The rich have the blessing of less financial anxiety but they have the test of lowering their ego and being generous with their resources.
I’m not trying to judge in any way I just genuinely dont understand what the prosperity gospel is trying to embody. Just the accumulation of wealth by any means? And does this idea exist in Catholicism then?
“WELL, we’re talking about-“
😭 oh my gosh am I a bad person, this is EXACTLY WHAT I want to listen to this morning, thank you so much Chelsea 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
As a European, I am really fascinated by these concepts since I encountered the thoughts of Max Weber and his The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism book in my uni studies.
Try N. T. Wright in England, Michael Bird in Australia, and John G. Stackhouse Jr. in Canada for some cultural and theological perspective on American evangelicalism.
Sarah Bessey Kate Bowler, Rachel Held Evans, and Beth Allison Barr are excellent writers.
I don't know of any from the global south, apart from Dr. Bird in Australia. (This is only because I'm still learning.)
I've never watched a single episode of real housewives but I never miss a video Chelsea does about it
Not a Mormon, don't listen to influencers, but looking forward to this video 🍿
YESSSS GIRL PREACH ALL OF THIS YES. You did a fantastic job on this. So thorough, so well presented and organized. I think all Americans need to hear this.
So interesting, I’ve never heard of prosperity gospel before. I’m a practicing Christian from Europe and a show of wealth with just the purpose of being seen is considered very distasteful and immodest. That’s not to say being wealthy is wrong only the outward show…such a weird thing to learn about
Lol. Europe is full of prosperity gospel promoters, especially Eastern Europe. Have you been living under the rock? I can guarantee that plenty of your friends attend evangelical church that is the essence of prosperity gospel.
@@vg7985 maybe haha it’s honestly not a thing at all in my community anyways:)
@@vg7985 really? Where exactly in Eastern Europe? Do you have examples? I'm from Eastern Europe, a practicing Christian Orthodox and I haven't seen any🤔
Ashley Ashley Merry Chritmas, Ashley. Evangelical churches exploded in Europe in 90-ties. After Soviet Union collapsed, evangelical new religions found a lot of support in Eastern Europe. They were new, fresh and they brought pop music ( Christian rock) instead of old choral music. Because of music and some charity work, evangelic religion became really popular. New flock of fresh Christians could stop you on the streets and try to convert you to prosperity gospel. You're probably very young and don't remember nineties. Still there is plenty of churches that play rock music and worship prosperity gospel. Are you saying that you don't know any church around that has rock band for worshipping instead of chorus?
Having religious OCD growing up + being a raging labor activist socialist = unhealthy interest in exploitative church practices
Lol. You're influenced by Satan. I'll pray for you.
Me too!! Pretty much
I’m an ex Mormon and remember going to church while my family was impoverished, being told to donate 10% of our earnings for tithe offerings, and being (literally) labeled as unworthy if we didn’t. Being unworthy means you can’t do any basic life event like baptize your child, “name” your baby (christening), get married, perform other ordinances that all of your peers did, take the sacrament, the list goes on. Not having money was akin to spiritual isolation.
Yep! Exactly right.
So untrue!
I’ve never heard of her until she was on the news. I have been searching channels to explain her and what actually happened. Your the only one that actually broke things down and explained this strange web. Thank you so much.
Current Latter-day Saint, I despise MLMs and at this point, most of my friends are in loud opposition to this part of the culture. I do still have a lot of friends on Instagram who keep marketing stuff like that, but that said I've never been taught this "prosperity gospel" stuff and don't really know anyone who has. There is a toxic culture leftover from the 70s-80s that most people in Utah prefer to stick with even though it's 100% not in line with the values of the church. As evidence of that, I do see just as many non-members in Utah doing what they can to appear rich as members, so it's more a Utah thing at this point.
It's really not great but it's definitely changing which is good.
I just wrote something along these lines before I saw your comment. Also, practicing member here. I agree. Utah...not the church. Amen.
The prosperity gospel isn't taught overtly, but subtly. It's the story about a man who paid his tithing when he couldn't afford to, and was blessed with a better job. It's the stake president telling the council that you can tell which members are full tithe payers based on who needs church assistance and who doesn't. The idea that we're "tested" and if we are faithful, we're rewarded with financial / temporal blessings and abundance. It's not limited to Utah.
@@crankybabicult yup 100% agree. I grew up mormon in LA county with working class parents. My mom worked at Vons and my dad on cars. We were always manipulated to paying the 10% of our income to tithing for the church, or we weren't found worthy to enter the temple.
I’m a current active member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter saints and mommy bloggers make me cringe.
I distinctly remember seeing a mom getting frustrated and upset while trying to pose her toddler and husband and thinking, “I bet she’ll post that and talk all about how much fun she had and much she loves them.” Didn’t sit right.
I completely understand. I’m also a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I blog, but I’m neither a mommy or a stay at home housewife. Not all members of our faith have been given that kind of life. I can also say I am extremely blessed by God. I’m childless and widowed and have come closer to Jesus Christ because of it. ❤️❤️❤️
Also a member of the church. Born and raised. I have lived in many places but never Utah. I don't hold with all this prosperity Gospel stuff. Maybe it's a cultural thing in Salt Lake, but it isn't doctrine. I really haven't seen any of it in my lifetime. I know plenty of "poor" people at church. I have always been one of them. Didn't ever feel excluded or looked down upon because of it. In the temple everyone wears white so that you can't tell the difference between the haves and have nots. Pretty sure there are Mommies of all walks, not just this faith, that feel the need to put up a show of perfection. And why stop at mommies? There are plenty of PEOPLE of all walks trying to put up a show of perfection. If you don't agree, look at literally ANY influencer. And while it is fun to poke at all of the "weirdness that is Mormonism," how about the awesomeness that is also our people. We have a welfare system within the church, the purpose of which is to help. Yes, people are encouraged to volunteer in the community and in the church. What a beautiful thing-- to be involved in community and attempting to do good, trying to be good neighbors, citizens and friends. To try to build strong families-- which last time I checked is the foundation for producing humans that are healthy mentally and physically. And for those who feel that they are made to feel less-than because of their economic status, maybe that is really happening-- in which case the individuals involved are wrong, or maybe that is an insecurity that the observer is bringing to the table.
Well said, Rebecca. Unfortunately I have experienced the mommy squad, I have no idea why except that these people are young and stupid. I’m a convert to the Church.
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As someone who has never watched any Real Housewives shows, I can't keep up with what is (non-)fictional in these analyses. However, they're deeply interesting - keep 'em coming TFD
I've never seen an episode of the housewifes or sex and the city... But I love the way you argue your points and support them with research. Also, you do get a little sassy every once in a while and I love that!
Watching your videos here in Germany and enjoying them tremendously - even though (or maybe because) life here is on the whole still very different from/less excessive than life in the US today. Some of your advice pretty much describes the life I'm leading and it's encouraging to know that I'm doing something right.
3:30 “…waterboarded their employee as part of a motivational exercise…”
OK, I'm out of there. Damn.
Agreed. Her laughter was inappropriate.
@@ExiledStardust But the water boarding was OK?
Former Mormon here, thank you for being willing to touch the subject. It needs more coverage.
I love your content Chelsea! I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (which is the full name of the church and is preferred over “Mormon Church”), so I was nervous to watch this video. But I think it’s important to consider different perspectives and to confront the potential problems in our own beliefs and thinking.
I appreciated the opportunity here to recognize certain aspects of my religious culture that are harmful and not true to the doctrines and principles I hold dear. My faith is very important to me. This video was actually a good reminder of many scriptural teachings. The people of the Book of Mormon are constantly going through a “cycle of pride” and falling away from the true gospel after a period of blessings/prosperity/wealth corrupts them. I hope to live my faith in a way that isn’t shown through my appearance in any way, but through the love and service I can share with others.
Thanks for the great information you are always sharing here!
So spot on. I'm an exmormon in Utah getting therapy for all the crazy Mormon culture and oh boy, the pressure to look good and be productive is DEEP in my psyche.
The American Dream in many ways functions as a version of the Prosperity Gospel! Yes! 👏
“In a way that will not send you to prison” LOVED the tone on that line 😂😂😂
The waterboarding motivational technique sounds like a scene cut from Sorry to Bother You
Chelsea, as a single mom interested in learning about finance I am a big fan of your channel. I’d love for you to do a reaction and here your thoughts of Jubilees latest video on rich vs poor. I would have loved to see you as a participant on that video tbh. Very interesting and eye opening look into the minds of the wealthy.
I'd love to see a response to that video too, Chelsea!
jubilee is evilness
Your measured analysis is flawless.
You are amazing! Some valid, non gossip and logic finally! Pat yourself on the back! Sometimes I have wondered about my attraction to housewives and you explain why! Love you!
I’m just blown away! I’m so late but I just love your page and videos. I learned so much!
I hadn't heard of the term "Prosperity Gospel" that is a great label for it. Great video. Very thought provoking.
YES! I am here for this type of content!thank you for the tea 👏👏
I love how balanced you relay this information. Thank you for such an intelligent and well thought out breakdown on this. Jen Shah isn't even a topic I have noticed, but it's such a good way to bring up other, more important topics.
I love you Chelsea, you are one of my favorite youtubers, but your first slide needs editing. 1) “Descent” is misspelled as “decent” and 2) No one is of “Mormon descent” because Mormon is not a race or ethnicity. You can say she is from the Mormon faith or has a Mormon background, but I think it’s important that that term not get conflated with the idea of religious affiliation being an immutable characteristic like race or ethnicity. It’s a small detail but I think they are important to point out. Thanks! Love your channel.
I agree that Mormon descent makes no sense
I haven’t even started but I’m here for the tea. Grew up LDS in the Salt Lake suburbs letttssss goooo if you need more tea I got you😂
Former Mormon living in Utah / it’s worse than you can imagine to experience firsthand. Like, way way worse. Loved watching this video. Well done
Dear Chelsea, I’d love for you to explore a subject that you spoke of about women defining success in visual ways for whatever reasons. I’m not sure if you’ve ever discussed it and I’ve not seen it tackled by anyone yet (that I’m aware of). Please? And thank you. Obviously, we might’ve some idea but I would love the discussion from you anyways.
non-practicing Mormon here. I must clarify a bit that a lot of this isn't necessarily tied to the actual doctrine of the religion (I'm no defender of the religion, I left for other reasons than this), but this style of thinking is still heavily tide to the culture in Utah and other prominent Mormon populations in neighboring States such as Idaho and Arizona. Don't get me wrong, there were some really wealthy Mormons in the city in California I grew up in, but I didn't associate with any of them so I never felt this need in my particular religious culture to be wealthy or to even appear like it. But anytime I visited Utah, or more likely SLC, I got more of this impression, and it was super uncomfortable, because this appearance of wealth actually goes against the basic doctrine and teachings of the religion, even in the early beginnings of the church there was more of a culture of socialism, not whatever the hell this is that's going on now, especially in Utah. Honestly, MLMs have always creeped me out, even more so when I was still practicing, and I never understood the draw of it by Mormon people, read women, or that they were even formed by Mormon people, it just never clicked to me why they would go that route.
Can confirm that this is a lot more Utah Mormon culture (and surrounding states) than LDS doctrine, and members outside these areas would be very confused and disgusted by this financial obsessed and toxicity
I can confirm the fact that mostly "Utah Mormons are like this" with the whole prosperity gospel. Being mormon outside of Utah is another thing. They actually focus more in living the actual gospel than people here in the bubble states.
Right on.
I can imagine MLMs don’t sound that weird to people who are part of a religion that’s obsessed with recruiting..
20 bags of luggage....lol I don't think I even own enough things that could fill 20 suitcases...that's insane... 😂
I think it’s important to note that while some people believe it prosperity gospel is not taught by the LDS church and no MLM is actually affiliated with the church
I was shocked to learn about the prosperity gospel. I can understand the desire to show how wealthy these immigrants had become to their families back in the old country, but the lack of morals (show excess wealth and doing anything to get it etc) has shocked me to the core. I regret that I now understand the moral corruption of America. The founding fathers must be turning in their graves. Perhaps America has (or will soon his its bottom
As an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, this is not taught or part of the culture. I smile that every comment on here starts out "ex-mormon here"... 🤣. This is very much part of Utah. And Utah culture is no the church culture. Two separate things. I have lived in many states and Utah may be the "hub" but that isn't what it's like everywhere else. Trust me. I'm 33, I'm in the thick of those mommy bloggers she's and it is so true...so many seem to be LDS
...but that really isn't a reflection on the church. There is no "act like you are wealthy or righteousness connected to prosperity" no. Sorry friends, that ain't it. The Utah Mormon bloggers drive me nuts but please don't assume we are all like that. Not part of our doctrine at all. Also, the church does not tell women to stay home. Let's get an actual practicing member to fill in the gaps here.
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Um WTF. I was just googling (again) about Mormon influencers. You guys 😂😅
The tie-in/concluding plug at the end for WealthFront 🤣
As a current Mormon, I'd say there's definitely some truth to this in general, broad strokes, and it's absolutely worth examining the relationship between church teachings and these cultural ideas (and they are there). But it's also worth keeping in mind-especially for those on the outside-that Mormons aren't a monolith. There's a lot of tension and interplay between doctrine, belief, practice, and culture. And Mormonism outside of Utah or outside of the United States can look very different from a prevalent culture in affluent areas around Salt Lake City. Heck, I live in Salt Lake City itself, but in my neighborhood, we just don't care about appearances like this.
There are plenty of Mormons like me who cringe at this materialism, MLMs, and prosperity-gospel rhetoric and think it's antithetical to our actual doctrine. Mormon culture _is_ a thing, but it doesn't describe all Mormons, and we're not all the same.
I love how you *don't* have music behind your videos!!
Salt Lake City really seems like a WILD place
Very Stepford
Never seen an episode of these shows ever ... And I am thankful for that.
Having been an active member of the LDS faith for 52 years of my life, The "Prosperity Gospel" is 110% accurate. The fact that the Mormon female "mommy influencers," are having success will, in their mind, validate that they are on the right track to heaven. The financial success of these women, while working at home adds to the perceived heavenly pat-on-the-back.
WOW, just WOW. Thank you for this exposure to what a large part of America is paying attention to these days. I do not watch RH of any kind, as even a promo shot, shows fake teeth, face, hair, chest. So it has no relation to my life as a musician. But I will look for more of your videos on this topic. It helps to understand why America is such a mess, and why it won't get cleaned up any time soon. I had no idea that this was a part of Mormon culture. Here is a book that explains today's acceptance of tRump by evangelicals, and how their religious goals are not what is portrayed on TV etc. "Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation" This 'religion' is highly invested in Jesus as a conquering warrior, women are secondary. Fightingwar/violence to achieve your goals is the honorable way to live. Maybe you could bring that info to your audience as well. Great video Thanks
Also a member of the church. Born and raised. I have lived in many places but never Utah. I don't hold with all this prosperity Gospel stuff. Maybe it's a cultural thing in Salt Lake, but it isn't doctrine. I really haven't seen any of it in my lifetime. I know plenty of "poor" people at church. I have always been one of them. Didn't ever feel excluded or looked down upon because of it. In the temple everyone wears white so that you can't tell the difference between the haves and have nots. Pretty sure there are Mommies of all walks, not just this faith, that feel the need to put up a show of perfection. And why stop at mommies? There are plenty of PEOPLE of all walks trying to put up a show of perfection. If you don't agree, look at literally ANY influencer. And while it is fun to poke at all of the "weirdness that is Mormonism," how about the awesomeness that is also our people. We have a welfare system within the church, the purpose of which is to help. Yes, people are encouraged to volunteer in the community and in the church. What a beautiful thing-- to be involved in community and attempting to do good, trying to be good neighbors, citizens and friends. To try to build strong families-- which last time I checked is the foundation for producing humans that are healthy mentally and physically. One of the things that we are indoctrinated with is that we are here to help one another. And for those who feel that they are made to feel less-than because of their economic status, maybe that is really happening-- in which case the individuals involved are wrong-- or maybe that is an insecurity that the observer is bringing to the table.
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I bloomin loved this! My favourite episode of the year!
excited to watch this! as an exmormon I talk about mormon culture to anyone who will listen so I love to see other people talking about it hahah
Hi Chelsea, found your channel a few months back and enjoyed your content so far. I am a member of the LDS Church, not in Utah but Germany. I can understand how from the outside you think our religious beliefs and the toxic positivity/ perfectionism/ striving for wealth seen in Utah and elsewhere are all one big intertwined muddle but this you NEED to distinguish. Believe me it is one of my biggest nightmares to ever have to live in Utah. No thank you😅 we here in europe are very aware of the huge cultural impact from the church being based in America but often discuss how culture and the teachings of the church are seperate things.
Unfortunately especially church members in Utah are great with made up rules and being very superficial about looking perfect in every life aspect.
Believe me, in our belief financial success is per definition NO sign of righteousness. And being involved with dubious companies, earning money illegally or immorally is not accepted. Of course there will be members doing it anyway. Just like you would have people of other faiths not playing by their rules all the time. Just please dont make it a "Mormon thing" when I just made sure my 300 dollars Christmas money got properly taxed. Thank you😄
Agreed.
And to add that these signs of wealth go against everything we've been taught about modesty and the purpose of money. Money is meant to help others, not to show others you're better than them. The LDS faith offers free money management classes and starting business classes that teach the exact opposite of what some display.
Love smart people like yourself, Chelsea
I’m so pleased you’re taking on the malignancy of the so-called ‘prosperity gospel’. That’s crap religion and directly opposed to the real Gospel.
The Catholic Church is the most successful business of all time, why is it surprising that other religious groups are using the same strategies for success and wealth 🤔 they aren't taxed, have little transparency and longstanding social and economic connections which have been engrained in society and in many ways are built on their ideals
You should look into the financials of the LDS church as well, it's quite staggering how much money they have
Some people even say the Catholic Church invented all the basic marketing strategies lol
The House Wives franchise seems to be like a glamorous documentary of American Values , which are non existent . Great commentary
Guaranteed, Every last one of them had in their limited library a copy of “Girl, wash your face” by Rachel Hollis
I'm an ex-Mormon/inactive-Mormon. Seems a lot of Mormons get roped into MLMs easily. There was also a large disparity between the wealthy and poor/broke Mormons.
Huge...our family used to be poor.
I absolutely love how you zoom the camera in and out and in and out with every new sentence. Who developed that technique?
The usual reason for doing this is that it's a way of editing without jump cutting. When you shoot in 4k, you can crop into the shot in the edit while maintaining enough quality. It allows you to film in one take, with one angle and one camera, as you can then crop in when you want to make an edit, without using a jarring jump cut. Another way to edit is obviously cutaways, which TFD also uses.
A member here, I would like to point out the doctrine of a religion can be very different from the the culture practiced. Members who live in Utah are different from members who live outside the state. I recognize the cultural issues that exist can be truly devestating. The RHSLC is an embarrasment across the board. I've lived in Utah, it was not a good fit for me. I refused to participate in MLM"s and was/am single never been married (much fun to be had). I think you've been pretty fair in your video, but please understand the culture is different from the LDS doctrine.
*The pain of discipline is always less than the pain of regret.*
Eff, yes! Was waiting for Chelsea to dish on Jen Shaw!
Great video! Very informative!
It's not just people on TV... people who have perceived "power" have these issues too. I value my job and reputation too much to risk doing anything dishonest. Ugh!
People in America are taught if you commit any type of illegal action, you will go to jail or prison. Religion or not!! Retired teacher here, my 5th grade students knew right from wrong. Drugs damage your body. Prepare your brain for your future job. Don't hurt other humans. Use common sense. Freedom is valued in America. Religion is your choice as an adult.🤨
Can/will you start linking your accessories (including those glasses!!) and clothing in the description? I don't even care if they're affiliate links!!
2 things I am so sick of is MLMs & Religion. If we got rid of both the world would be a better place.
Please realize that this is “Mormon culture” and not doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are definitely people in the church that fully believe it is doctrine, but outside of Utah the problem is much less prevalent (though not nonexistent). I grew up my whole life in the church and am a current active member and only recently came across the concept - which was presented as a problematic and damaging belief that some people mistakenly buy into.
Excellent!
Affinity Fraud is a big problem in SLC. That is why SLC is the smallest city with a SEC regional office.
"Speedrun of the American Dream" 🤣 What a quote
Omg Chelsea I love that you did this lol
This video is so good 👌🏽
I had a Mormon friend who's mother was trying to start an IT business that helped the elderly over the phone. I can't believe how I didn't pick up on how illegitimate that sounded at the time lol
Love this breakdown of prosperity gospel with RH flavor
Great info. And may I say you look great. And it would even be kind of cool to see you try out some red frames (glasses). It would look cool on you. Thanks
This is another great example of why you should not answer your phone unless you know exactly who is calling you.
For anyone interested in ex-Mormonism, I highly recommend the podcast Latter-Day Lesbian.
Why use a wiffle-ball bat when you can use a Louisville Slugger?
If you're going to whack a hornet's nest, make sure the hornets know it.
Good analysis. Watch your language if you want to portray respectful responsible reporting/analysis.
It's always about the money...
Jim Baker walked so Real Housewives could run.
Hey hey hey! Chelsia mentioned "many podcast" about mormonism and pyramid scemes. Can you reconment some to me! I'm intreaged!
I need Chelsea on an episode of the Scam Goddess podcast with Laci Mosley
Man I clicked so fast but was so hoping that she would talk more about the Mormon church and their hoarding of money and not doing as much good as they say they are. I was a member for 26 years and holy cow. She could have gone so deep! Hopefully this opened her curiosity to look more into it.
Love this, and love your top xx
When I see videos on "how to make breakfast for 8" or "how to do laundry for a family of 8"... I just think WTF did you have 8 children??? Like hooooow???? Now I understand where these people come from ... 😳
Some people adopt. One of the prominent channels I can think of has 6 adopted children and 2 biological.
Large families like this were more common worldwide not to many decades ago.
i wish you would have touched on the Mary Crosby storyline. She married her step grandfather, per her grandmother's insistence and her wealth comes from her grandmother's investing in lucrative business while being a pastor; with, no doubt, the investment funds came from the church. Just another prosperity gospel story.