You're right, Some say HUUSK inferiority may be contagious...even sticky...hope he quarantined it wearing P.P.E. (Personal Protective Equipment)...It's all about Time, Distance, & Shielding...hopefully innocent blades may be saved...
This is why you, Pete are at the top of U tube knife channels. You are hard using these 2 versions & dont even worry about the warranty issue. Just great info from real world experience.
I have an ESSE 6 that I have split, hammered, and beat on as a fire knife, shelter building knife, and now farm do all knife. It's 1095, and I have had no issues with the edge ever. It is factory bevel, and stropped/sharpened as needed. A bomb proof knife!
Almost any factory knife has their grind way too obtuse, i.e. more than 40 degrees inclusive, because youtubers (Pete is already sailing against the trend) like to break them. It's what it is.
I think I remember the owners breaking a s35vn one when they first came out. I think they said something like "if you want indestructible use 1095 and if you want SS, it's not as tough" or something like that to paraphrase. It's been several years ago though.
@@CNYKnifeNutLol, absolutely not. Hype and rage rules the day! In all honesty, they were open and clear about the results early on (which I appreciate). I just wish they would have gone with 3V or something comparable, but if you’re conscientious about use, the S35VN is entirely appropriate.
@@mlwarrior I wonder about our use of "toughness," though. It seems to pan out on issues like chipping. But it doesn't seem to give great predictions on the effects of torsion, or torsion and impact combined. I keep seeing "tough" stainless break where even a modest carbon steel like 1095 won't under mixed twisting and pounding stress. So I'm starting to think that CATRA toughness tells us a little less than we have been inferring it does. It's something I've been watching for while, and this is just a theory. But this theory does explain things- like Esee breaking their s35vn 3 on stuff their 1095 3 didn't really notice
I carry a Brooklyn Shorty with me every day. You never know when an impromptu baseball game will pop off and you'll need to bash some baseballs with it
Dude, pine knots are no joke. They can get super hard. I've seen them wreck the edge of an otherwise great axe, ruin drill bits, and deflect nails from a nail gun.
At least in my experience working with a run of S35VN- its a steel that does like to be pushed into that 60-61HRC bracket to maximise its potential toughness, that's sort of where it wants to be. If you go a little harder for something like aiming for secondary austenite at a higher temp it can reduce its toughness as well, but give you a little teeny bit more wear resistance, poorer corrosion resistance. Likewise if you go too soft on the hardening into the 58-59HRC its toughness is roughly the same results as the higher tempering, but a little better corrosion resistance and less edge holding. Essentially it has a sweet spot and it does like a cryo treatment prior to tempering, that does give a noticeable gain in hardness, but its a process cost which ends up on the customer as well. I haven't had any issues with rolling or chipping, high hardness at the highest recommended temperature soak, cryo and a fairly middle of the road tempering for hardness. Still use the prototype in the kitchen, its wafer thin, its got a severe and steep edge that 'could' roll if anything is going to roll and it hasn't over the last 18 months of being used 3 times a day on generic kitchen duties (often by some people who do bad things with knives) and that's just my observations. So my guess is that they opted for probably 58HRC on that one, its decently tough, still got its corrosion resistance for fishing trips and its got good enough edge holding to be worth the money, but maybe its just not tough enough to function in a role of an axe. If someone wanted a stainless to function well impacting into hard timber, S35VN isn't even going to be mentioned as an option, along with a great many other excellent stainless steels won't be nominated either. Not saying you can't use it to chop up Mr Gum Tree, its your stuff and your choice along with the fact it does entertain me when you do, but just my opinion I don't think it would work best there :)
@@bobjohnson1633 Yeah its an all round good knife steel and I think its otherwise excellent because it's ok corrosion resistance, very good edge retention and in ok toughness. If you were to select a stainless for impact and toughness resistance you could look at stuff like Z-FINIT, CPM-154, AEBL and Nitro-V all stands up to a good amount of abuse being belted into things. But, not as good at being a knife for cutting as S35VN. I think also to be fair we should take into the edge geometry, like a 4-5mm thick stock of S35VN is going to stand up to impacts with a convex grind than it would with the high-flat grind. But you might sacrifice a bit of cutting performance on some materials with more metal behind the edge.
Thanks for sharing this, Pete. I do hope you send it back to ESEE, if only to get feedback from them about what happened with that particular knife. Was it a flawed heat treatment or other one-off manufacturing glitch? Would love more information.
Esee has a video where they break a 3 in S35VN. On the charts S35VN is better than 1095 in every way. I've never had problems with other knives in S35VN which leads me to question Esee's version of the steel.
Would be excited to see Esee start using more steels...especially 3V. I’ve been beating on the latest Ontario Rat 6 in S35vn...I’ve been surprised at how well it’s held up.
The SOG Pillar is a "field knife" sized fixed blade in S35VN. I don't think there's much info on beating on them really hard but it's really nice looking. I'm curious how strong S35VN is in various fixed blades. I really like it as a pocket knife steel and some of the CS folders in it were more durable than a lot of fixed blades in JoeX's tests
I have yet to try the SOG Pillar. Would be a great field knife. My S35vn Rat 6 is rather ductile. I’ve had it bend multiple ways and spring back. It took a few trips for me to stop carrying the Esee 6 as a backup. The Ontario has now done the most fire prep of the two.
These medium size fixed blades are thick enough that strength isn't really an issue. S35 is a wonderful do it all steel on a fixed blade..not great on a thin flipper.
@@bobjohnson1633 Well the edge and tip of a knife is always thin. S35VN seems pretty tough for a powdered steel but it's primarily used in folders, which it's great for. Its main draw is its edge retention and corrosion resistance, not toughness.
Back in the day, Chris Reeves one of the developers of S35vn used it one there fixed blades. That led me to try a Bark River Bravo 1.5 in S35vn and it’s still my main outdoor blade. The Rat 6 in its thinner geometry was questionable at the time but has proved itself.
Talk about timing . I was just watching your knife brand teir list video and I was at the part about how you talked about esse telling people that the 1095 is what they should buy and not the s35vn. So I cant wait to watch this test.
Thank you. I cannot tell you how often I’ve looked at their knives wondering. I’ve got a clip-point Esee 6 in 1095, and now I don’t feel like I’ve missed out on anything. :)
Wouldn't AEB-L or 14c28n be better than S35 or Magnacut for this kind of knife? The 1095 is fine. but if you want to change their line maybe Magnacut on the Esee 4 and smaller, 14c28n or AEB-L as the stainless option on the 5-6, and 3v as an option on the 6 and smaller Junglass? But the Rowan 1095 works really well on the 4-6 and the machetes. I think the real gain would be a MUCH tougher stainless than S35 as a stainless option on the Esee 6. If our fantasy includes a Larrin steel, maybe Niomax? Magnacut, while tough at the edge, seems like it wouldn't bring enough additional impact and torsion resistance to knives larger than the Esee 4. I like S35 in folding knives- it's tough enough, stainless enough, easy enough to sharpen, etc. All things being equal I'd take Magnacut over S35 in a new purchase. But I'm quite happy with s35 on blades 4 inches and smaller- that don't get pounded through trees. It seems like simple carbon steels are perfectly good for larger knives, and that if we want to go stainless, we should lean hard into toughness over any other factor. Maybe actually use the 1095 Esee 4 for a while and see how easy it is to touch up in the field while using it and give us a longer use comparison?
When I bought my two ESEE S35vn blades I went for the smaller Izula and 3,. These are my EDC blades and I use them mainly for slicey functions. They work very well in that regard. 3V or AEB-L would be wonderful in the ESEE 4, in my opinion. Also my opinion because I don't know this but I suspect that ESEE/ROWEN went with s35VN because it is a USA manufactured steel. I could be wrong, as always. lol
Agreed about possibly using MagnaCut on a future ESSE blade. I saw another content provider compare the ESSE 1095 and S35VN, and saw similar results when hammering both edges against a cooking pan: the S35VN edge had small chips while the 1095 remained unscathed. Thank you for producing this video, it was very informative. I'll probably be sticking with my ESSE 6...
I never go below 25° on my bushcraft knives (my best being Grohmann). I've found that at that angle, they work flawlessly, don't get damaged, and retain the edge the best by far. There's also an aspect of the grain and composition of the steel - granted, I don't know much about this, but it's why Sandvik can be sharpened to such a fine edge, while others (like M390, I believe) can't be sharpened to quite as extreme an angle. I would like to know more about it, because I think there are optimal bevel angles for specific steels... and this may be a major factor in edge retention that has been overlooked.
Larrin Thomas, Phd in metallurgy, says geometry is key, even above steel. You are on to something. Especially if you don't baton (which you can somewhat ignore in bushcraft , e.g. use wedges) you can get away with very slicey degress. Modern steel is amazing!
If you want to go scout style with that sheath, you could always wrap paracord loops through the rivet holes and put it on your belt that way. I carry the candiru that way sometimes and it works great.
@adods9824 just attach a strip of leather along the back of the sheath. Not sure how to explain any other way . So the open ends run scout carry . Or handle to tip
I think it is the heat treatment, I have a White River FC7 in S35VN and even with a 20 degree edge and beating through logs I have NEVER had a roll like that.
the ede angle on my 1095 ESEE 4 is at 17 DPS. I chopped, batoned and cut with it and no warps. I was always hesitant to get the S35VN versions. What I am thinking, is what you also mentioned, it might be less hard than the 1095, the abrasion resistance of S35VN will make it do better when cutting abrasive materials. I think it was the ESEE 3 that first came out in S35VN and on their channel they broke it when batonning. You could see that they were not too thrilled about S35VN but "the people" wanted it so they made it. Why did I enjoy the video so much? Was is the batoning? ...who knows... all I can say is: yes! it was the batoning😁
I have both of these in the Esee 3 format but haven’t really used the s35vn like I would the 1095. So I have wanted to see DBK do this exact comparison since the introduction of s35vn but even though they respect Esee, they unfortunately aren’t the biggest Esee fans, therefore I was glad to see you had done this video. Now I personally would love to see them drop the s35vn and instead just go 3v and 1095 as kind of a premium and budget line. Yes I know 3v isn’t a true stainless but it is leaps and bounds more corrosion resistant than 1095. Plus down the line if they want a premium stainless line, then introduce magnacut.
Interesting video. This is why I don't have any large stainless steel fixed blades. The only one I have is a Mora Companion. You can't get everything: edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance unfortunately.
Have you got your hands on the ESEE Laser Strike yet? I like the profile more than than the numbered models. Someday someone will offer an inside the waist band paddle for bolting kydex sheaths to.
The warp carrying that far up seems really weird. If Esee sees this I hope they send you another s35sn blade to do some more testing on. Hopefully it was just some fault in your particular knife. I like the rubber mallet idea. I use a Becker 9 for kindling, but always feel like a bit of an idiot using a log as the hammer here in the city. The mallet might be ever so slightly less concerning to the neighbors...
Was looking at the Izula in S35VN a year ago. Just for the corrosion resistance, newer steel everyone was praising. Last minute I went for the 1095 black oxide...have not regreted my choice a single second since! Esee did a great job on that steel, it's tough and I have no rust issues...because I have enough respect to take care of my tools! I think I will get the CR2.5 next...again 1095, no hesitation!
Solid review.. I was legit just wondering your video title haha. I’d still go S35VN when I get a new one though and that’s mainly for the corrosion resistance as I always end up using them on food too.
I think it's great that they agreed to branch out with steel choice a bit, but it being s35, I'd be more inclined to want that on something smaller like a xancudo or izula. Something where I could actually benefit from that additional edge retention. With anything bigger, I feel like I'd be throwing it around a little more at that point and so the toughness really becomes a factor again. Probably a good idea to stay with the 1095 on those.
I seem to recall an Esee company person comment that the Large Tek-Lok is supposed to fit every one of their products. You could put one of these on and do a scout-style carry.
@@adods9824 Hope it helps. When I was teaching in Alaska, I carried a Busse Active Duty in scout style on my right hip just below my kidney. I now carry a Spyderco Enuff 2 in K390 in the same place. Being able to quickly access a blade with such a convenient location is really helpful.
@@random_eskimo_in_the_rockiesThat's my thinking..:-) They must be rough students, lol! Seriously, I have a CRKT Ramadi which came with a tek loc. I am gonna neck carry the Ramadi, so I will use the spare Tek Loc on the ESEE 3D desert tan I just ordered .. thanks to you man ! Cheers from Down Under cobber 😁👍
@@adods9824 Speaking of CRKT Neck Knives, I carried a CRKT Stiff K.I.S.S. for a few months until I decided I didn't like a neck knife with no handle other than paracord. Still a nice knife.
I have an old school Ontario RTAK II, the poor man's Junglas. It's about 13 years old now and I have definitely hard used it the whole time. I rolled the edge about 10 years ago on some ponderosa pine and it is still going strong. So the type of damage your S35VN ESEE got is certainly representative of what 1095 may experience. Not an ESSE obviously, but I've had an ESEE 6 for about as long and I don't see a major difference between it and the Ontario.
Wrong? Maybe. Personally feel that if it’s warped above the edge it’s not your fault. The steel up there is the same thickness as before you put your edge on it. Does that make sense? Maybe not . Just my thoughts
Good to see this test, my argument has always been that these northern hemisphere knives are not well suited to hard use on good old Aussie hardwood with often dirt filled gnarled cranky grain.
I just bought a Esee 4 tactical clip point. I might get the Esee 6 clip point one day. I put the belt clip on the right side and the entire sheath goes inside my pocket.
Hey mate, I am looking for the best home knife sharpener. I have tried wet stones etc, but no good. I am after one of those ones that you can set at a fixed angle …. Can you recommend one please. Ps. I live in Aus too.
Does Esse still not advertise the blade hardness? I had an esse 3 years ago that was super soft. I wonder if they temper them super soft for warranty purposes. Love the video.
I have the s35vn, sharpened at the factory angle and have not had any issues batoning plenty of gum trees camping. Maybe the extra 5° pushed you over the edge or maybe you got unlucky with the heat treat 😢
1095 every day of the week, I love S35VN on all my CRK knives, which I collect, but my Esee 4 has seen a heck of a lot of abuse, but the 1095 is so easy to maintain downrange and perfect for most task's. Unless you need yo chop down bamboo or hard trees.
Ive had the Esee 4 in s35vn almost since it came out with no problems? Peters Heat Treat gets those to 60hrc so you might want to contact Esee. Ive seen them break but not deform like that
Nice comparison. Got the old 1095 version years ago and thought about upgrading, maybe i'll stick with it tho. The sheathes should be tek-lok compatible, so you could carry it scout style with one of those.
Come for the Memoria music, stay for the fascinating and surprising comparison of 1095 and S35VN. Kind of nice to see the ol’ girl still holding her own. Grateful for the consistently honest reviews.
I think that was the conclusion (more or less) that ESEE came to. They were apprehensive on stainless, and broke or ruined some where their 1095 was fine. That could be a compromise they had with the toughness of S35VN, having to run it soft so it wouldn't break in some tests. 3V and Magnacut would be interesting options, but they're far from "field serviceable" steels (needing more time on more advanced abrasives) which take away from their survival goal or mission statement, so I doubt they'd replace 1095, but they're better fixed blade materials than S35VN for sure.
Yeah... 14c28n seems like a more reasonable stainless. Or AEB-L. inexpensive and top tier for toughness. AEB-L is, I guess, a little tougher; 14c a little easier to come by and less prone to corrosion.
It seems ESEE want to have their knives "field serviceable". 3V would take longer to dull, but also longer/harder to sharpen. I have an ESEE-4 in S35VN with orange G-10 slab handles.
Great video. I love Esee and have four of their knives. I use the Esee 3 in s35 rather often. Patrick, with Esee, was doing a video with Shane (from Esee), and broke an s35 model while processing wood. The Esee folks prefer the 1095. They use and test their products in many areas of North and South America. As another person stated, I wish Esee would go to 3v as an upgrade.
I have that same black/gray handled one in your video. Love the blade don’t care much for the handle. Too short in my opinion and overall doesn’t fit my hand right. But the Esee 5 handle I love.
yeah my s35vn roll and i got a different s35vn with a horizontal grind .. its suppose to be more premium mate.. yeah s35vn is tough not edge retention.. i got m390 and dull that until magnacut for the UTRLA upgrade
That's false. The cost of the steel will add $10-$15 to a knife. If it is an easy to use steel, like s35vn or magnacut, that will also keep the price down, while some other steels can be costly to produce or work on. S35VN is not expensive. Most particle steels are not. Most cost added for a new steel is working on a new steel. This can be alleviated by moving completely into that steel so everything is done completely in bulk.
14C has 9/10 toughness and 3/10 edge retention. N690 has 4/10 toughness and 4.5/10 edge retention. (Based on VG10) 1095 has 4.5/10 toughness and 1.5/10 edge retention. S35VN has 5/10 toughness and 5/10 5/10 edge retention. Source: knifesteelnerds
If you just want a stainless ESEE knife, the S35vn versions are solid! If you are actually interested in or benefiting from better edge retention, go with a knife that makes good use of that in thinner geometry for cutting and a comparable steel. I recommend Spyderco’s Mule Team 2 (MT2) fixed blade in CPM-Spy27 steel. Similar grade of steel (bit harder probably ~62rc), USA Made, good boltaron or leather sheaths, for about the same price directly from Spyderco. The MT2 is full production, but you could also look into any of the available limited Mule Teams fixed blades for a chance to try a variety of steels from different foundries. Lots of aftermarket sheath and scale options too! I have three and I’m recommending them so highly based on my positive experiences and testing results.
ESEE just puts out some darn tough 1095 blades. Yes you’ve got to hone or strop them more often but they won’t let you down. They have the heat treatment dialed in perfectly on 1095 for me.
That's a bit disappointing, but good to know. Maybe you just got a lemon, but considering the edge retention wasn't suspiciously low I don't know about that. My only ESEE in S35VN is the Xancudo and I'll likely never test/use it hard enough to find out if it'll fail like that.
Totally agree with the assessment of wood, use of batoning and the knives! I reckon esee should just leave the s35vn for the smaller cross over or game knives.
Depends on the knife and use. I love the ESEE AGK for skinning, it's literally the perfect size, handle, and mini Nessmuk shape. But 1095 sucks ass for skinning and requires constant touching up just to properly skin and process one buck. S35VN hands down for skinning. I really wish ESEE would use magnacut or cruwear; I'm cool with not getting the same warranty if they'd use better steal. The only upside of 1095, IMO, is that it's cheaper and easy to touch up in the field, but that cheap steal is why they can do the warranty they do. Really I'm not a huge fan of S35VN or 1095, so come on ESEE, catch up.
While ESEE still fully warranties their S35VN knives they will tell you that they are not recommended for batoning. They recommend the 1095 knives if you are going to baton with them. I have both versions of the ESEE 4 but I only use the 1095 for batoning and wood processing. The S35VN is used for hunting and camp chores like food prep.
My suspicion is that ESEE has a better grasp of 1095 heat treat than S35VN...it's a bit trickier, and MAY be a bit softer (while more abrasion resistant.) 🤔 So it rolled. Still prefer 52100 over 1095...they've both been around for a long time and have had the kinks worked out of the heat treats. Many really know how to get the most out those.
Very interesting review. Living in my small part of Canada, I was holding on to hope that the stainless would be perfect for me, because of the snowy wet winters, & very humid summers. I guess the 1095 is still king. Thanks for the info. You just saved me a fist full of cash. 👍🏼
The s35 is trying to balance much more edge retention than other, tougher stainless or near stainless steels. 13c27, 14c28n, 3v, or magnacut would be better steels for you.
Really good vid. In my opinion the cpm steels are often overrated especially when it comes to hard tasks. I have a s30v folding knife and this is doing a good job. For hard tasks i prefer carbon steel like 1.2235.
Easy choice. ESEE 4 in S35VN with the HM (modified handle. ;) Yeah, doesn't exist but should. Until then there's enough European blades in 440C or close with what I want - slicey with some toughness. An XL handle - which the HM 95% delivers - wouldn't break the bank for the premium you pay.
I have an Esee 6 and the blade chipped on the most ridiculous thing. I don't even remember what it was but I remember thinking, "wtf just happened." Maybe one day I'll send it in to get fixed. I never even got to take it put in to the field and put it through some real work. Not sure what the hype is about. 🤷♂️
According to ESEE the S35VN version of the ESEE 4 is between 59-60 HRC. (I've asked them a wile ago) Of course there is always the chance that something went wrong during the heat treating process or when grinding the blade. But I don't think that's the case here. This is a very short full flat grind with a relatively stiff blade. That puts a lot of stress on the knife when using it for batoning. Hard steel is still able to warp. Maybe you've just had bad luck with one specific piece of wood this time. That doesn't mean you shouldn't baton at all, but stuff like this can happen. Only having one knife with you out in the wild is never a good idea. Nothing is bulletproof. Greatings from Germany. 🖖
Only going by two knives from the same manufacturer, is not enough for me to say for sure, although you did the best you can. The reason I say that is, after seeing so many videos exact knives with the exact same steel from the same manufacturer, show inconsistencies. Then throw in how they say the QC was better at such and such date, where they were made, etc, just makes me wish there was at least 5 knives of each steel going through the same tests to get a better benchmark of it all.
Cedric batoning is absolutly legit. There are pailing knifes especially made for that since axes are less suited for controlled splits. Where I lived they used to make shingling (tiles for the roof) this way
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Conspiracy theory: Was the S35VN knife perhaps left in close proximity to a Huusk knife and infected by the contagion?
Should probably have a sheath on keep at least 2 meters apart from another knife with the Huusk
You're right, Some say HUUSK inferiority may be contagious...even sticky...hope he quarantined it wearing P.P.E. (Personal Protective Equipment)...It's all about Time, Distance, & Shielding...hopefully innocent blades may be saved...
Ye gods, you're right! My entire blade-based worldview has been shattered.
@@d4mdcykey 🤣
I absolutely LOVE my Huusk knife. Huusk steel beats Magnacut every day of the week and twice on Sunday! #TeamHuusk 😂
This is why you, Pete are at the top of U tube knife channels. You are hard using these 2 versions & dont even worry about the warranty issue. Just great info from real world experience.
I have an ESSE 6 that I have split, hammered, and beat on as a fire knife, shelter building knife, and now farm do all knife. It's 1095, and I have had no issues with the edge ever. It is factory bevel, and stropped/sharpened as needed. A bomb proof knife!
well esse themselves said they prefer the 1095 in all their testing... they only did the sv35n to please people.
My Esse 6 was bent to a crazy angle when I first was learning to button wood, a piece way to big. I got the knife out and it bent back on its own
their 1095 is soft as baby shit
@@acid6urns
I have the orange G-10 ESEE4 & edge retention sucks even the 420hc on my Buck119 is better.
I think esee deliberately makes their knives softer than they need to be so they are less likely to snap when RUclipsrs use them as pry bars.
Almost any factory knife has their grind way too obtuse, i.e. more than 40 degrees inclusive, because youtubers (Pete is already sailing against the trend) like to break them. It's what it is.
@@Dhari1that’s obtuse. Shallow would be less than 40
I think I remember the owners breaking a s35vn one when they first came out. I think they said something like "if you want indestructible use 1095 and if you want SS, it's not as tough" or something like that to paraphrase. It's been several years ago though.
1095 is less tough than s35v at the same HRC, though.
@@mlwarrior
This is the knife world, sir. Objective facts aren't welcome here.
@@CNYKnifeNutLol, absolutely not. Hype and rage rules the day!
In all honesty, they were open and clear about the results early on (which I appreciate). I just wish they would have gone with 3V or something comparable, but if you’re conscientious about use, the S35VN is entirely appropriate.
@@mlwarrior I wonder about our use of "toughness," though. It seems to pan out on issues like chipping. But it doesn't seem to give great predictions on the effects of torsion, or torsion and impact combined. I keep seeing "tough" stainless break where even a modest carbon steel like 1095 won't under mixed twisting and pounding stress. So I'm starting to think that CATRA toughness tells us a little less than we have been inferring it does. It's something I've been watching for while, and this is just a theory. But this theory does explain things- like Esee breaking their s35vn 3 on stuff their 1095 3 didn't really notice
@@andrewfournier8817 Its probably becuase esee's 1095 is heat treated super soft (55-57 hrc) while their s35vn is the standard 60hrc.
Pete, i liked your mallet baton idea so much i ordered a cold steel "indestructible" Brooklyn slammer for the same purpose.
I carry a Brooklyn Shorty with me every day. You never know when an impromptu baseball game will pop off and you'll need to bash some baseballs with it
@@gregs7519 Apparently you are my neighbor
@@gregs7519You EDC a Brooklyn Shorty??
@@mikeappleget482 yes, in my truck. I use it to check my tires. Similar sticks are known as "tire thumpers"
@@d4mdcykey 🤣🤣
Even pine knots can be pretty harsh on a good edge and cause rolls or chips
Dude, pine knots are no joke. They can get super hard. I've seen them wreck the edge of an otherwise great axe, ruin drill bits, and deflect nails from a nail gun.
At least in my experience working with a run of S35VN- its a steel that does like to be pushed into that 60-61HRC bracket to maximise its potential toughness, that's sort of where it wants to be. If you go a little harder for something like aiming for secondary austenite at a higher temp it can reduce its toughness as well, but give you a little teeny bit more wear resistance, poorer corrosion resistance. Likewise if you go too soft on the hardening into the 58-59HRC its toughness is roughly the same results as the higher tempering, but a little better corrosion resistance and less edge holding.
Essentially it has a sweet spot and it does like a cryo treatment prior to tempering, that does give a noticeable gain in hardness, but its a process cost which ends up on the customer as well.
I haven't had any issues with rolling or chipping, high hardness at the highest recommended temperature soak, cryo and a fairly middle of the road tempering for hardness. Still use the prototype in the kitchen, its wafer thin, its got a severe and steep edge that 'could' roll if anything is going to roll and it hasn't over the last 18 months of being used 3 times a day on generic kitchen duties (often by some people who do bad things with knives) and that's just my observations.
So my guess is that they opted for probably 58HRC on that one, its decently tough, still got its corrosion resistance for fishing trips and its got good enough edge holding to be worth the money, but maybe its just not tough enough to function in a role of an axe. If someone wanted a stainless to function well impacting into hard timber, S35VN isn't even going to be mentioned as an option, along with a great many other excellent stainless steels won't be nominated either.
Not saying you can't use it to chop up Mr Gum Tree, its your stuff and your choice along with the fact it does entertain me when you do, but just my opinion I don't think it would work best there :)
Esee says they do 59.5. it works pretty well for me.
@@bobjohnson1633 Yeah its an all round good knife steel and I think its otherwise excellent because it's ok corrosion resistance, very good edge retention and in ok toughness.
If you were to select a stainless for impact and toughness resistance you could look at stuff like Z-FINIT, CPM-154, AEBL and Nitro-V all stands up to a good amount of abuse being belted into things. But, not as good at being a knife for cutting as S35VN.
I think also to be fair we should take into the edge geometry, like a 4-5mm thick stock of S35VN is going to stand up to impacts with a convex grind than it would with the high-flat grind. But you might sacrifice a bit of cutting performance on some materials with more metal behind the edge.
Gold! Are you an Aussie mate? 😁👍
@@adods9824 Yep I am
@@krissteel4074Mr Gum Tree gave it away. I am Adelaide S.A . RUclips is amazing! 👍
Thanks for sharing this, Pete. I do hope you send it back to ESEE, if only to get feedback from them about what happened with that particular knife. Was it a flawed heat treatment or other one-off manufacturing glitch? Would love more information.
Totally agree. That would be very interesting, and maybe also a fair opportunity for ESEE to evaluate / make changes to their heat treatment etc.
Esee has a video where they break a 3 in S35VN. On the charts S35VN is better than 1095 in every way. I've never had problems with other knives in S35VN which leads me to question Esee's version of the steel.
Would be excited to see Esee start using more steels...especially 3V. I’ve been beating on the latest Ontario Rat 6 in S35vn...I’ve been surprised at how well it’s held up.
The SOG Pillar is a "field knife" sized fixed blade in S35VN. I don't think there's much info on beating on them really hard but it's really nice looking. I'm curious how strong S35VN is in various fixed blades. I really like it as a pocket knife steel and some of the CS folders in it were more durable than a lot of fixed blades in JoeX's tests
I have yet to try the SOG Pillar. Would be a great field knife. My S35vn Rat 6 is rather ductile. I’ve had it bend multiple ways and spring back. It took a few trips for me to stop carrying the Esee 6 as a backup. The Ontario has now done the most fire prep of the two.
These medium size fixed blades are thick enough that strength isn't really an issue. S35 is a wonderful do it all steel on a fixed blade..not great on a thin flipper.
@@bobjohnson1633 Well the edge and tip of a knife is always thin. S35VN seems pretty tough for a powdered steel but it's primarily used in folders, which it's great for. Its main draw is its edge retention and corrosion resistance, not toughness.
Back in the day, Chris Reeves one of the developers of S35vn used it one there fixed blades. That led me to try a Bark River Bravo 1.5 in S35vn and it’s still my main outdoor blade. The Rat 6 in its thinner geometry was questionable at the time but has proved itself.
Yay! I was just lamenting there was nothing to watch and then BAM! You released a video. Thanks!
Talk about timing . I was just watching your knife brand teir list video and I was at the part about how you talked about esse telling people that the 1095 is what they should buy and not the s35vn. So I cant wait to watch this test.
Thank you. I cannot tell you how often I’ve looked at their knives wondering. I’ve got a clip-point Esee 6 in 1095, and now I don’t feel like I’ve missed out on anything. :)
Wouldn't AEB-L or 14c28n be better than S35 or Magnacut for this kind of knife? The 1095 is fine. but if you want to change their line maybe Magnacut on the Esee 4 and smaller, 14c28n or AEB-L as the stainless option on the 5-6, and 3v as an option on the 6 and smaller Junglass? But the Rowan 1095 works really well on the 4-6 and the machetes. I think the real gain would be a MUCH tougher stainless than S35 as a stainless option on the Esee 6. If our fantasy includes a Larrin steel, maybe Niomax? Magnacut, while tough at the edge, seems like it wouldn't bring enough additional impact and torsion resistance to knives larger than the Esee 4. I like S35 in folding knives- it's tough enough, stainless enough, easy enough to sharpen, etc. All things being equal I'd take Magnacut over S35 in a new purchase. But I'm quite happy with s35 on blades 4 inches and smaller- that don't get pounded through trees. It seems like simple carbon steels are perfectly good for larger knives, and that if we want to go stainless, we should lean hard into toughness over any other factor. Maybe actually use the 1095 Esee 4 for a while and see how easy it is to touch up in the field while using it and give us a longer use comparison?
Brilliant comment .. well do E! 😁👍
Just got an Ontario Rat-6 in S35vn, still havent test or used it much, but Im loving it.
When I bought my two ESEE S35vn blades I went for the smaller Izula and 3,. These are my EDC blades and I use them mainly for slicey functions. They work very well in that regard.
3V or AEB-L would be wonderful in the ESEE 4, in my opinion. Also my opinion because I don't know this but I suspect that ESEE/ROWEN went with s35VN because it is a USA manufactured steel. I could be wrong, as always. lol
Good info 😊 I'm glad I choose my tops 1095 for "tougher" jobs
Agreed about possibly using MagnaCut on a future ESSE blade. I saw another content provider compare the ESSE 1095 and S35VN, and saw similar results when hammering both edges against a cooking pan: the S35VN edge had small chips while the 1095 remained unscathed. Thank you for producing this video, it was very informative. I'll probably be sticking with my ESSE 6...
Realities in real life scenarios, keep it up mate... You're doing awesome and comparisons are always appreciated.. The only S35VN I got is my para2...
I never go below 25° on my bushcraft knives (my best being Grohmann). I've found that at that angle, they work flawlessly, don't get damaged, and retain the edge the best by far. There's also an aspect of the grain and composition of the steel - granted, I don't know much about this, but it's why Sandvik can be sharpened to such a fine edge, while others (like M390, I believe) can't be sharpened to quite as extreme an angle. I would like to know more about it, because I think there are optimal bevel angles for specific steels... and this may be a major factor in edge retention that has been overlooked.
Larrin Thomas, Phd in metallurgy, says geometry is key, even above steel. You are on to something. Especially if you don't baton (which you can somewhat ignore in bushcraft , e.g. use wedges) you can get away with very slicey degress. Modern steel is amazing!
Thanks! This was a question I wanted answered. Looking for a small do all tough use knife. Now I know.
I think this is a fault in the heat treatment. Not a sharpening issue as it is outside the sharpening bevel
Great data! Thank you! I enjoy my S35VN Esee AGK for hunting tasks. But I agree to stick with their 1095 for hard use cases.
If you want to go scout style with that sheath, you could always wrap paracord loops through the rivet holes and put it on your belt that way. I carry the candiru that way sometimes and it works great.
I carry my esee 3 and 4 exactly like that. Have for years.
A simple leather strip along the back of the sheath works great for scout carry.
@@davidheath2427how do u do that? Can't picture it ...
@adods9824 just attach a strip of leather along the back of the sheath. Not sure how to explain any other way . So the open ends run scout carry . Or handle to tip
@davidheath2427 How so ?
I think it is the heat treatment, I have a White River FC7 in S35VN and even with a 20 degree edge and beating through logs I have NEVER had a roll like that.
Thats what happened to my Gerbar principle it warped during light use .barstool of a thing
the ede angle on my 1095 ESEE 4 is at 17 DPS. I chopped, batoned and cut with it and no warps. I was always hesitant to get the S35VN versions. What I am thinking, is what you also mentioned, it might be less hard than the 1095, the abrasion resistance of S35VN will make it do better when cutting abrasive materials. I think it was the ESEE 3 that first came out in S35VN and on their channel they broke it when batonning. You could see that they were not too thrilled about S35VN but "the people" wanted it so they made it. Why did I enjoy the video so much? Was is the batoning? ...who knows... all I can say is: yes! it was the batoning😁
I have both of these in the Esee 3 format but haven’t really used the s35vn like I would the 1095. So I have wanted to see DBK do this exact comparison since the introduction of s35vn but even though they respect Esee, they unfortunately aren’t the biggest Esee fans, therefore I was glad to see you had done this video. Now I personally would love to see them drop the s35vn and instead just go 3v and 1095 as kind of a premium and budget line. Yes I know 3v isn’t a true stainless but it is leaps and bounds more corrosion resistant than 1095. Plus down the line if they want a premium stainless line, then introduce magnacut.
Yes! This!
Interesting video. This is why I don't have any large stainless steel fixed blades. The only one I have is a Mora Companion. You can't get everything: edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance unfortunately.
Have you got your hands on the ESEE Laser Strike yet? I like the profile more than than the numbered models. Someday someone will offer an inside the waist band paddle for bolting kydex sheaths to.
I have the PR4 and love it.
Thanks for another great testing video!
Shout out for the Brisa Kephart. Super thin 80CrV2 that seems to motor through anything without flinching.
Maybe not an exact replica (doesn;t matter to me) , but my favorite Kephart knife . Very good knife for the woods.
I have one, good to know.
The warp carrying that far up seems really weird. If Esee sees this I hope they send you another s35sn blade to do some more testing on. Hopefully it was just some fault in your particular knife. I like the rubber mallet idea. I use a Becker 9 for kindling, but always feel like a bit of an idiot using a log as the hammer here in the city. The mallet might be ever so slightly less concerning to the neighbors...
Was looking at the Izula in S35VN a year ago. Just for the corrosion resistance, newer steel everyone was praising.
Last minute I went for the 1095 black oxide...have not regreted my choice a single second since!
Esee did a great job on that steel, it's tough and I have no rust issues...because I have enough respect to take care of my tools!
I think I will get the CR2.5 next...again 1095, no hesitation!
Is the music in the background from the game secret of evermore? It really sounds like one of the game sounddtracks
Would be interesting to see how the S35VN performs with a convex edge
You should warrant that knife. You pay for that warranty when you buy the knife - no point in paying good money for a warranty that you won't use.
"Esee warranty, no matter how many times they have been traded, sold or given away - no sales receipt or proof of purchase required. "
Holy cow a premium line from esee in magnacut and 3v would be amazing.
Solid review.. I was legit just wondering your video title haha. I’d still go S35VN when I get a new one though and that’s mainly for the corrosion resistance as I always end up using them on food too.
I think it's great that they agreed to branch out with steel choice a bit, but it being s35, I'd be more inclined to want that on something smaller like a xancudo or izula. Something where I could actually benefit from that additional edge retention. With anything bigger, I feel like I'd be throwing it around a little more at that point and so the toughness really becomes a factor again. Probably a good idea to stay with the 1095 on those.
I seem to recall an Esee company person comment that the Large Tek-Lok is supposed to fit every one of their products. You could put one of these on and do a scout-style carry.
Thanks !!
@@adods9824 Hope it helps. When I was teaching in Alaska, I carried a Busse Active Duty in scout style on my right hip just below my kidney. I now carry a Spyderco Enuff 2 in K390 in the same place. Being able to quickly access a blade with such a convenient location is really helpful.
@@random_eskimo_in_the_rockiesThat's my thinking..:-)
They must be rough students, lol!
Seriously, I have a CRKT Ramadi which came with a tek loc. I am gonna neck carry the Ramadi, so I will use the spare Tek Loc on the ESEE 3D desert tan I just ordered .. thanks to you man ! Cheers from Down Under cobber 😁👍
@@adods9824 Speaking of CRKT Neck Knives, I carried a CRKT Stiff K.I.S.S. for a few months until I decided I didn't like a neck knife with no handle other than paracord. Still a nice knife.
I have an old school Ontario RTAK II, the poor man's Junglas. It's about 13 years old now and I have definitely hard used it the whole time. I rolled the edge about 10 years ago on some ponderosa pine and it is still going strong. So the type of damage your S35VN ESEE got is certainly representative of what 1095 may experience. Not an ESSE obviously, but I've had an ESEE 6 for about as long and I don't see a major difference between it and the Ontario.
When I took the S35VN on my SR1 (your old SR1) down to 17 degrees and tried cutting through dirty geofabric with it I rolled the edge pretty quickly.
Wrong? Maybe. Personally feel that if it’s warped above the edge it’s not your fault. The steel up there is the same thickness as before you put your edge on it. Does that make sense? Maybe not . Just my thoughts
Ive never bonded with bigger blades in s35vn or cpm154. Pain in ass to sharpen.
Great for pocket knives though, or maybe izula size
I’m sure you know this, but the Izula line can be mounted horizontally.
Good to see this test, my argument has always been that these northern hemisphere knives are not well suited to hard use on good old Aussie hardwood with often dirt filled gnarled cranky grain.
I just bought a Esee 4 tactical clip point. I might get the Esee 6 clip point one day. I put the belt clip on the right side and the entire sheath goes inside my pocket.
Great testing. I believe ESEE claims 20 degrees default from them, but by hand, so it isn't precise. In their own videos they broke the S35VN version.
Hey mate,
I am looking for the best home knife sharpener.
I have tried wet stones etc, but no good. I am after one of those ones that you can set at a fixed angle …. Can you recommend one please.
Ps. I live in Aus too.
Does Esse still not advertise the blade hardness? I had an esse 3 years ago that was super soft. I wonder if they temper them super soft for warranty purposes. Love the video.
That is absolutely the case. Esee run their 1095 on the softer side for sure. They're all about toughness over edge retention
Yup the run a cheap and soft 1095 so they wont have to pay for warranty
@@martinerhard8447 exactly. And even if you have to claim the warranty 3 or even more times they're still making a profit
@@aido1987 yes easy.
I have the s35vn, sharpened at the factory angle and have not had any issues batoning plenty of gum trees camping. Maybe the extra 5° pushed you over the edge or maybe you got unlucky with the heat treat 😢
1095 every day of the week, I love S35VN on all my CRK knives, which I collect, but my Esee 4 has seen a heck of a lot of abuse, but the 1095 is so easy to maintain downrange and perfect for most task's. Unless you need yo chop down bamboo or hard trees.
1095 is not a "hard use" steel.
@@mlwarriorit is when you make the blde thick and keep the steel soft xD
just sucks then as a knife for knife tasks
@@mlwarriorI think ESEE would very much disagree ...
Fantastic follow up Pete, thanks. 👌😁
Ive had the Esee 4 in s35vn almost since it came out with no problems? Peters Heat Treat gets those to 60hrc so you might want to contact Esee. Ive seen them break but not deform like that
Nice comparison. Got the old 1095 version years ago and thought about upgrading, maybe i'll stick with it tho. The sheathes should be tek-lok compatible, so you could carry it scout style with one of those.
That is what I'd call bent. Did they heat treat it????
Come for the Memoria music, stay for the fascinating and surprising comparison of 1095 and S35VN. Kind of nice to see the ol’ girl still holding her own. Grateful for the consistently honest reviews.
I think that was the conclusion (more or less) that ESEE came to. They were apprehensive on stainless, and broke or ruined some where their 1095 was fine. That could be a compromise they had with the toughness of S35VN, having to run it soft so it wouldn't break in some tests.
3V and Magnacut would be interesting options, but they're far from "field serviceable" steels (needing more time on more advanced abrasives) which take away from their survival goal or mission statement, so I doubt they'd replace 1095, but they're better fixed blade materials than S35VN for sure.
Yeah... 14c28n seems like a more reasonable stainless. Or AEB-L. inexpensive and top tier for toughness. AEB-L is, I guess, a little tougher; 14c a little easier to come by and less prone to corrosion.
Magnacut has no such problem with abrasives. There is no reason not to, other than availability, especially with how big their brand is.
It seems ESEE want to have their knives "field serviceable". 3V would take longer to dull, but also longer/harder to sharpen.
I have an ESEE-4 in S35VN with orange G-10 slab handles.
This is a very video I like.
Please more of comparisons.
Maybe comparing some of the Bradford knives?
Hey Esse and Tops
3V is calling your name!
Great video. I love Esee and have four of their knives. I use the Esee 3 in s35 rather often.
Patrick, with Esee, was doing a video with Shane (from Esee), and broke an s35 model while processing wood.
The Esee folks prefer the 1095. They use and test their products in many areas of North and South America.
As another person stated, I wish Esee would go to 3v as an upgrade.
Great information man. Thanks.
Great points, thank you!!!
I have that same black/gray handled one in your video. Love the blade don’t care much for the handle. Too short in my opinion and overall doesn’t fit my hand right. But the Esee 5 handle I love.
Essee must have run the S35VN soft. I don’t think they like working with anything but 1095
yeah my s35vn roll and i got a different s35vn with a horizontal grind .. its suppose to be more premium mate.. yeah s35vn is tough not edge retention.. i got m390 and dull that until magnacut for the UTRLA upgrade
The problem w/ powder steels atm is price vs performance ratio. Unless your a steel nerd w/ disposable income youre probably not going to need such.
Id love to see exactly how much of your collection you _need._
That's false. The cost of the steel will add $10-$15 to a knife. If it is an easy to use steel, like s35vn or magnacut, that will also keep the price down, while some other steels can be costly to produce or work on.
S35VN is not expensive. Most particle steels are not.
Most cost added for a new steel is working on a new steel. This can be alleviated by moving completely into that steel so everything is done completely in bulk.
would love to see Esee in Sandvik 14 or N690co
14C has 9/10 toughness and 3/10 edge retention.
N690 has 4/10 toughness and 4.5/10 edge retention. (Based on VG10)
1095 has 4.5/10 toughness and 1.5/10 edge retention.
S35VN has 5/10 toughness and 5/10 5/10 edge retention.
Source: knifesteelnerds
It's strange how few fixed blade companies use 14c28n. The only thing I can think is it's European and not American, but I don't know.
14C28N is excellent stainless. Wish more people would make blades out of it
@@thaknobodi 9/10 toughness is okay for me
@@PLBW81 heck yea. Twice the toughness of 1095
If you just want a stainless ESEE knife, the S35vn versions are solid!
If you are actually interested in or benefiting from better edge retention, go with a knife that makes good use of that in thinner geometry for cutting and a comparable steel.
I recommend Spyderco’s Mule Team 2 (MT2) fixed blade in CPM-Spy27 steel. Similar grade of steel (bit harder probably ~62rc), USA Made, good boltaron or leather sheaths, for about the same price directly from Spyderco.
The MT2 is full production, but you could also look into any of the available limited Mule Teams fixed blades for a chance to try a variety of steels from different foundries.
Lots of aftermarket sheath and scale options too! I have three and I’m recommending them so highly based on my positive experiences and testing results.
ESEE just puts out some darn tough 1095 blades. Yes you’ve got to hone or strop them more often but they won’t let you down. They have the heat treatment dialed in perfectly on 1095 for me.
Pete any chance to review TOPS BOB in 154CM?
Bonjour so which one is the best ?
Thank you for explaining and demonstrating why Esee is selling hard-use 1095 and standing behind its No-Questions-Asked Lifetime Warranty.
That's a bit disappointing, but good to know. Maybe you just got a lemon, but considering the edge retention wasn't suspiciously low I don't know about that. My only ESEE in S35VN is the Xancudo and I'll likely never test/use it hard enough to find out if it'll fail like that.
Totally agree with the assessment of wood, use of batoning and the knives! I reckon esee should just leave the s35vn for the smaller cross over or game knives.
Sounds like its either soft, or they ended up with some retained austenite.
Looks like the heat treatment is a little on the soft side.
what knife sharpner are you using in the video?
When brickie starts wearing a hoodie, watch out!🧱
The Splitting Hatchet by Stihl will blow your mind. Legit. Do a review please! Thank me later!
Depends on the knife and use. I love the ESEE AGK for skinning, it's literally the perfect size, handle, and mini Nessmuk shape. But 1095 sucks ass for skinning and requires constant touching up just to properly skin and process one buck. S35VN hands down for skinning. I really wish ESEE would use magnacut or cruwear; I'm cool with not getting the same warranty if they'd use better steal. The only upside of 1095, IMO, is that it's cheaper and easy to touch up in the field, but that cheap steal is why they can do the warranty they do. Really I'm not a huge fan of S35VN or 1095, so come on ESEE, catch up.
I have an esee 4 double edge. Sheath is below average. Any recommendations for a good company custom Kydex for it?
While ESEE still fully warranties their S35VN knives they will tell you that they are not recommended for batoning. They recommend the 1095 knives if you are going to baton with them. I have both versions of the ESEE 4 but I only use the 1095 for batoning and wood processing. The S35VN is used for hunting and camp chores like food prep.
My suspicion is that ESEE has a better grasp of 1095 heat treat than S35VN...it's a bit trickier, and MAY be a bit softer (while more abrasion resistant.) 🤔 So it rolled.
Still prefer 52100 over 1095...they've both been around for a long time and have had the kinks worked out of the heat treats. Many really know how to get the most out those.
My Esee izula 1095 cant even skin one pig before it goes dull. Will replace it with a s35vn
Very interesting review. Living in my small part of Canada, I was holding on to hope that the stainless would be perfect for me, because of the snowy wet winters, & very humid summers. I guess the 1095 is still king.
Thanks for the info. You just saved me a fist full of cash. 👍🏼
The s35 is trying to balance much more edge retention than other, tougher stainless or near stainless steels.
13c27, 14c28n, 3v, or magnacut would be better steels for you.
@@bobjohnson1633 Thanks for the great advice. Much needed
Wonder how that knife police fellow is doing?
Really good vid. In my opinion the cpm steels are often overrated especially when it comes to hard tasks. I have a s30v folding knife and this is doing a good job. For hard tasks i prefer carbon steel like 1.2235.
Easy choice. ESEE 4 in S35VN with the HM (modified handle. ;) Yeah, doesn't exist but should. Until then there's enough European blades in 440C or close with what I want - slicey with some toughness. An XL handle - which the HM 95% delivers - wouldn't break the bank for the premium you pay.
I have an Esee 6 and the blade chipped on the most ridiculous thing. I don't even remember what it was but I remember thinking, "wtf just happened." Maybe one day I'll send it in to get fixed. I never even got to take it put in to the field and put it through some real work. Not sure what the hype is about. 🤷♂️
According to ESEE the S35VN version of the ESEE 4 is between 59-60 HRC. (I've asked them a wile ago) Of course there is always the chance that something went wrong during the heat treating process or when grinding the blade. But I don't think that's the case here. This is a very short full flat grind with a relatively stiff blade. That puts a lot of stress on the knife when using it for batoning. Hard steel is still able to warp. Maybe you've just had bad luck with one specific piece of wood this time. That doesn't mean you shouldn't baton at all, but stuff like this can happen. Only having one knife with you out in the wild is never a good idea. Nothing is bulletproof. Greatings from Germany. 🖖
A minor roll at 20 degrees after battening is not a big deal at all IMO
The part with the chonky cats made this a 10/10
Esee themselves say if you are going to beat on a knife get 1095, if you absolutely have to have stainless then get s35vn, but it will break.
Only going by two knives from the same manufacturer, is not enough for me to say for sure, although you did the best you can. The reason I say that is, after seeing so many videos exact knives with the exact same steel from the same manufacturer, show inconsistencies. Then throw in how they say the QC was better at such and such date, where they were made, etc, just makes me wish there was at least 5 knives of each steel going through the same tests to get a better benchmark of it all.
is the esee 4 too thick to be a good slicer?
Yeah, pretty much
I disagree. It’s a perfect slicer.
Cedric batoning is absolutly legit. There are pailing knifes especially made for that since axes are less suited for controlled splits. Where I lived they used to make shingling (tiles for the roof) this way
@martinerhard8447 FYI Cedric was a dog. Pete is the human in these videos. Just letting you know.
If it was run harder, it'd deform less because of the added strength, no?