a few guys are still running the hasselgren built 4age's in formula atlantic. they are making 250hp, revving to 10,500 rpm, and are only rebuilt every 10,000 miles roughly. so badass hearing them scream by mixed in with the droning mazda engines the atlantic cars are switching to now.
Just to clear up one of the comment on the video, The 7 Rib smallport "High Torque" as fitted to the AE92 GTi-16 Corolla was claimed 132bhp as supplied to the European markets
Thanks for the vid. Very informative. I have an 88 mr2 mk1. Would it improve the performance if i fitted a conical air filter, and removed the miles of intake tubing? Thanks.
thanks man. these changes will not give you anything. 2-3hp maybe - the difference that you will not be able to notice for sure. I would stick with oem box filter since it draws nice cold air while cone filter (unless you shield it properly from the heat but hardly anybody does that) will be sucking hot air from engine bay. Also cone will give better top end (if you are able to notice) but at cost of lower end. I would stick with oem air box but with some better filter like this one: www.kudosmotorsports.com/catalog/images/HKS_Super_Hybrid_Filter_70017-AN001.JPG . What is cool about cone filter however is the sound.
sick video, helped a lot. I have a 87 fx16 gts, looking to get more power but not sure what to run. id like a nice turbo set up for a daily driver. opinion?
I am totally new to this engine. Can anyone tell me are the cylinder heads interchangeable. What parts are needed to start this engine on the floor/jack stand. Can this model be fitted with a webber carb. Exeter for speed what's the weak link on the 4 age?
Thabk you very much!!! I have a ae82 stock and i am looking to restore it or atleast drop in a 4-AGE ;) but i do not know how to do so. Any info on this conversion would be greatly appreciated. once again Thank you. Liked n sub.
blacktops are rated 160ps but they do not keep factory numbers. Usually its more like 145-150ps. Same with silvertops. These are magnificient engines but they need some lovin to output 160-170ps
01MIKUrocks01 Depends what kind of abuse. If you want to use what you have and you worry how much will it last then dont worry too much these are very realiable units - if user history is good and you care for oil, getting it warm etc then it should last long even when heavily abused If want to go boost so if I were you i would touch base with guys with such setups. blacktops have light and thin conrods and this is their weakest points when going soft boost. If you aim for serious boost then you would have to modify internals anyway to lower compression
It makes me sad that you didn't fix all the errors in this when you first mentioned it wherever I saw it. Even better would be to just delete it. What is the point? And who are you to be giving 4AGE advice? It makes me even sadder to see all the people eating this BS up. So I guess it's time to post it up here. I'll start at the beginning. Only fanbois use the top color. There are actually three generations of 16 valve. Two of which have red lettering. Half the world thinks the second gen is the red top and half the world thinks the third gen is the red top making it completely useless nomenclature. Proper ways to identify the 4AGEs primary generations are Gen 1 or 3 rib largeport Gen 2 or 7 rib largeport Gen 3 or smallport There is no confusion on the 20 valves so they can be Gen 4 or silvertop And Gen 5 Blacktop I would love to see your sources for the 3 rib largeport making those numbers. Not that it can't but it's very impractical since almost all the aftermarket parts available are for the 7 rib block with the 20/42 rotating assembly. Then again since you don't mention the 7 rib largeport maybe you are lumping that in here too which is inaccurate and also makes your numbers even more inaccurate since people have made 250 CHP on the 7 rib LP NA and over 700 HP boosted. The third generation smallport has the same block, crank and rods as the second generation largeport. The biggest differences are the high comp pistons and the SP will have provisions for the external oil drain from the head and a knock sensor. Not all smallports had oil squirters either and who cares anyway. Remember those 500 to 700 hp largeports I was talking about? Some of them didn't run squirters. The 7 rib block is a better starting point than the 3 rib primarily because it has so much more aftermarket support. If you are going for big power the added strength is a plus. There were not three generations of GZE their generation matches their NA counterparts. There is the 7 rib largeport GZE and there is the smallport GZE. Just like the NA. The smallport got stretched into a slightly modernized revision with the last couple years changing to DLI and a couple other small changes but not it's own gen. 250 to 300 hp in stock form once turboed? Once you ditch the POS ECU. But then again people have made over 600 hp on the stock GZE internals aside from cams and hardware so again what's your point? If you look at NA vs GZE dynos they both fall on their ass in the upper RPM. The GZE may be a little worse but not significantly. When it comes to straight lines and numbers blah blah blah just like almost everything else in this vid that is uneducated opinion and not fact. People have made stupid amounts of power in every generation of 4AGE. More importantly the only internal difference between the GZE and it's NA counterpart of the same gen is the pistons. Throw some good forged pistons in an NA 7 rib and it will already be better than a GZE. On to the silvertop. Due to it's great flow and strong internals blah blah blah. More opinionated BS with no background in reality. Did you know that sane amounts of boost don't significantly stress rods and that it's under tension on the exhaust stroke that rods are generally most likely to fail? A better explanation is in the first chapter of maximum boost if you want to look it up. The blacktop is an awesome motor for going turbo. Just like the Silvertop if you are going for big power numbers you will want to throw in some good forged pistons. If you are going for insane amounts of power the BT rods would need to be upgraded sooner but that's mostly based on RPM unless you plan on running crazy amounts of boost. Once again in the next screen. The only difference between a 7 rib LP NA and GZE is the pistons so as long as you address that neither is better than the other. The 20v is as capable as the 16v for high hp NA builds. They only advantage the 16v has is it has had more development time due to Formula Atlantic and N2. Bill Sherwwoods site is horribly outdated. Good info on his stock pages but the tuning pages are useless. GZE vs 20v more opinion with no basis in reality. One is better for this and one is better for that, total BS. Depends on the person, the car and the situation. The 20v will take more work to keep it in the power band and would require a better driver to make it perform. This is especially true in a launch where you can pretty much let the clutch out and step on the gas in a GZE and still look half respectable whereas it would take some skilled footwork to get a 20v off the line quickly. Sorry If I come across as short tempered but I already typed this all out on facebook or some crap and I hate seeing people spread misinformation especially when it's blatantly done in large dump truck loads of BS after they were already told they were doing it.
Matrix, "basic" is the keyword here and this is 1min vid which is to be encouragment for people to look for more knowledge on wide variety sources out there. Thank you for your input . There is really no point to rage on this. I owned 5 4ages and now for some time twincharged 4agzte and have practical experience with variety of setups in these units for about ten years now so "uneducated" is a bit off here. Realize that in real life 80% of people due to budget reasons soft turbo stock units and in that case bt will fail sooner. Also most statements in this vid refer to stock units and is correct - 4agze stock eats any stock 20v and as I assume you are 20v bt fanboy you just have to deal with it. If you rebuild your engine there is really no thing like "bt better than gze" because you can make anything, call it anything and the result just depends on you budget.
WhatIsMyNameDamnIt There is a difference between basic and 80% wrong. Almost everything you said is either wrong or an opinion. I believe there is good reason to rage against misinformation being spread especially after the person has been informed about the inaccuracy and especially after it starts spreading. I don't know what you do for a living but I spend about half my day dealing with customers or people on the forums or facebook who learned some stupid crap somewhere and I have to take time out of my day to tell them what they learned on the internet was wrong before I can help them move forward in their build or planning. What is your source on saying "80% of people due to budget reasons soft turbo stock units and in that case bt will fail sooner."? I would love to see this study done. How many BT rods have you personally seen fail? How many of those were you close enough to know the tune was dead on, the motor was healthy to begin with and that it was directly related to boost? All you have to do is look at a dyno of a BT to know it will outpace a LP GZE with ease and give a SP GZE a good run for it's money as long as you can keep it in the power band. It just takes more work to do so. The only comparative testing I have done was 0-60 but my BT before I hooked up my wastegate was about as fast 0-60 as my old GZE setup with the same T25 turbo at 12 PSI. I never recorded times on the SC but the turbo setup at 12 PSI was noticeably faster than my largeport GZE was at 8 PSI. Running 7 PSI on the BT it's about 1 second faster 0-60 than the old GZE converted to turbo at 12 PSI. It's not that I'm a 20v fanboy. I spend a lot of my time helping people build 16v motors because you can get more than 20v power for a similar price to a 20v swap. I love the 20v but I love the 16 valves too. They are all great motors. I do think the SC12 is a glorified boat anchor, the GZE intake system is a pile of crap and the GZE ECUs all suck balls so when you spend the extra money on a GZE you are buying a 7 rib 4AGE, a good set of pistons and a big pile of crap. That is opinion and has not more business being in a video titled facts, tips and basics than most of what you posted. I can however back that opinion with solid facts like the fact that most AFM ECUs suffer from low end leanout. The few others are still archaic 80s engine management. The MAP ECUs all tend to suffer from a pretty serious power dip. The SC12 and SC14 are rated by the manufacturer to 12 PSI at sea level. Even there the Adiabatic efficiency is in the low 50% to 60% range. They cannot be rebuilt and are getting more rare and more expensive by the day. The GZE pistons are also really low compression by todays standards. Great if you are going for 600 hp but for anything less than 400 I would rather get some higher compression aftermarket pistons. Stick them in a 7rib and slap a turbo on it and you are further ahead than the GZE by a mile. The main point though is that most of what you said is wrong and most of the rest is fairly uneducated opinion. The fact that you try to defend it instead of fix it. IDK. I just hope people will read my post to give some contrast if this crap has to be up on the interweb.
Matrix Garage You twist the meaining of opinion to your liking. You dont know me so considering my words as unthought/unexperienced copy of somebodys else words just shows your ignorance and ego blindness. Gze power dip you fix with piggyback but for any reasonable numbers and control you always go with SA so how the old 4age ecus handle things does not matter. Supercharger is the drivers choice because it gives control but not power, turbo gives numbers but is not for twisties. I personally tested all kinds of 4ages in e8, e9 and ae86s and supercharged engine has best characteristics to my liking although it lacks top end power and power overall (below 210hp). You obviously are bt lover because my "opinion" that st is better for turbo just entraged you. When you treat the vid as reference to stock engines there is no one mistake in it and I stand by it. Your input contains interesting information for the readers but unfortunately i get the feeling that person who wrote is has his own head deep inside own ass. Untill you acknowledge that you are not most "educated" person on the planet and until you manage to actually get along with people like a human being should go and spread your knowledge somewhere else.
WhatIsMyNameDamnIt Dude referencing stock engines it's still all wrong. Stock engines aren't turboed and don't make 200 hp NA. You never even acknowledged the 7 rib largeport and still haven't addressed the fact that it exists. You haven't addressed the fact that the 7 rib LP has the same crank and rods as the smallport. I can go on and on but it doesn't matter because you are too busy defending yourself to stop and listen. I am not the most educated but then how many videos do I have on youtube telling people about things I don't know? Even the writeups on my website are only on things that I am quite familiar with and if anyone ever comes to me and tells me I have misinformation, outdated information or messed something up I research it and fix it because the truth and accuracy is more important than my ego.
Matrix Garage stock engine is engine with factory internals. stock unit with slapped on turbo is still stock and usually makes above 200 in case of 4ages. yes I did not address 7rib lp as well as many other surprises that you may find when browsing many 4age units as it was not the goal of this clip to go into every detail. We will not get into agreement as you obviously dont see my point and i do not see yours. Please spare some effort to make your own 4age educational vid. It may be the one like this to initiate interest with 4age or longer knowledge base for more advanced audience. I will definately like it if you care posting me the address.
a few guys are still running the hasselgren built 4age's in formula atlantic. they are making 250hp, revving to 10,500 rpm, and are only rebuilt every 10,000 miles roughly. so badass hearing them scream by mixed in with the droning mazda engines the atlantic cars are switching to now.
Dammit!! I really enjoy this video. Thank you.
Thanks for your prompt reply. Will take your advice and stick to the original system. Thanks again
Just to clear up one of the comment on the video, The 7 Rib smallport "High Torque" as fitted to the AE92 GTi-16 Corolla was claimed 132bhp as supplied to the European markets
Nice vid good info
Yeahyah, 4AGE!!!
Thanks for the vid. Very informative. I have an 88 mr2 mk1. Would it improve the performance if i fitted a conical air filter, and removed the miles of intake tubing? Thanks.
thanks man. these changes will not give you anything. 2-3hp maybe - the difference that you will not be able to notice for sure. I would stick with oem box filter since it draws nice cold air while cone filter (unless you shield it properly from the heat but hardly anybody does that) will be sucking hot air from engine bay. Also cone will give better top end (if you are able to notice) but at cost of lower end. I would stick with oem air box but with some better filter like this one: www.kudosmotorsports.com/catalog/images/HKS_Super_Hybrid_Filter_70017-AN001.JPG . What is cool about cone filter however is the sound.
Thanks for the nice comment. 😁 Billzilla.
sick video, helped a lot. I have a 87 fx16 gts, looking to get more power but not sure what to run. id like a nice turbo set up for a daily driver. opinion?
Up the mighty 4AGE!
I am totally new to this engine. Can anyone tell me are the cylinder heads interchangeable. What parts are needed to start this engine on the floor/jack stand. Can this model be fitted with a webber carb. Exeter for speed what's the weak link on the 4 age?
What about red&black top?
sick video - sound b16a civic
Thabk you very much!!! I have a ae82 stock and i am looking to restore it or atleast drop in a 4-AGE ;) but i do not know how to do so. Any info on this conversion would be greatly appreciated. once again Thank you. Liked n sub.
How strong are black tops
blacktops are rated 160ps but they do not keep factory numbers. Usually its more like 145-150ps. Same with silvertops. These are magnificient engines but they need some lovin to output 160-170ps
How much abuse could I push one with stock internals
01MIKUrocks01 Depends what kind of abuse. If you want to use what you have and you worry how much will it last then dont worry too much these are very realiable units - if user history is good and you care for oil, getting it warm etc then it should last long even when heavily abused
If want to go boost so if I were you i would touch base with guys with such setups. blacktops have light and thin conrods and this is their weakest points when going soft boost. If you aim for serious boost then you would have to modify internals anyway to lower compression
WhatIsMyNameDamnIt
I already said it above but again sane amounts of boost are not hard on rods.
good for diffin bah
It makes me sad that you didn't fix all the errors in this when you first mentioned it wherever I saw it. Even better would be to just delete it. What is the point? And who are you to be giving 4AGE advice? It makes me even sadder to see all the people eating this BS up.
So I guess it's time to post it up here. I'll start at the beginning.
Only fanbois use the top color. There are actually three generations of 16 valve. Two of which have red lettering. Half the world thinks the second gen is the red top and half the world thinks the third gen is the red top making it completely useless nomenclature.
Proper ways to identify the 4AGEs primary generations are
Gen 1 or 3 rib largeport
Gen 2 or 7 rib largeport
Gen 3 or smallport
There is no confusion on the 20 valves so they can be
Gen 4 or silvertop
And
Gen 5 Blacktop
I would love to see your sources for the 3 rib largeport making those numbers. Not that it can't but it's very impractical since almost all the aftermarket parts available are for the 7 rib block with the 20/42 rotating assembly.
Then again since you don't mention the 7 rib largeport maybe you are lumping that in here too which is inaccurate and also makes your numbers even more inaccurate since people have made 250 CHP on the 7 rib LP NA and over 700 HP boosted.
The third generation smallport has the same block, crank and rods as the second generation largeport. The biggest differences are the high comp pistons and the SP will have provisions for the external oil drain from the head and a knock sensor.
Not all smallports had oil squirters either and who cares anyway. Remember those 500 to 700 hp largeports I was talking about? Some of them didn't run squirters.
The 7 rib block is a better starting point than the 3 rib primarily because it has so much more aftermarket support. If you are going for big power the added strength is a plus.
There were not three generations of GZE their generation matches their NA counterparts.
There is the 7 rib largeport GZE and there is the smallport GZE. Just like the NA. The smallport got stretched into a slightly modernized revision with the last couple years changing to DLI and a couple other small changes but not it's own gen.
250 to 300 hp in stock form once turboed? Once you ditch the POS ECU. But then again people have made over 600 hp on the stock GZE internals aside from cams and hardware so again what's your point?
If you look at NA vs GZE dynos they both fall on their ass in the upper RPM. The GZE may be a little worse but not significantly.
When it comes to straight lines and numbers blah blah blah just like almost everything else in this vid that is uneducated opinion and not fact. People have made stupid amounts of power in every generation of 4AGE. More importantly the only internal difference between the GZE and it's NA counterpart of the same gen is the pistons. Throw some good forged pistons in an NA 7 rib and it will already be better than a GZE.
On to the silvertop. Due to it's great flow and strong internals blah blah blah. More opinionated BS with no background in reality.
Did you know that sane amounts of boost don't significantly stress rods and that it's under tension on the exhaust stroke that rods are generally most likely to fail? A better explanation is in the first chapter of maximum boost if you want to look it up.
The blacktop is an awesome motor for going turbo. Just like the Silvertop if you are going for big power numbers you will want to throw in some good forged pistons. If you are going for insane amounts of power the BT rods would need to be upgraded sooner but that's mostly based on RPM unless you plan on running crazy amounts of boost.
Once again in the next screen. The only difference between a 7 rib LP NA and GZE is the pistons so as long as you address that neither is better than the other.
The 20v is as capable as the 16v for high hp NA builds. They only advantage the 16v has is it has had more development time due to Formula Atlantic and N2.
Bill Sherwwoods site is horribly outdated. Good info on his stock pages but the tuning pages are useless.
GZE vs 20v more opinion with no basis in reality. One is better for this and one is better for that, total BS. Depends on the person, the car and the situation. The 20v will take more work to keep it in the power band and would require a better driver to make it perform. This is especially true in a launch where you can pretty much let the clutch out and step on the gas in a GZE and still look half respectable whereas it would take some skilled footwork to get a 20v off the line quickly.
Sorry If I come across as short tempered but I already typed this all out on facebook or some crap and I hate seeing people spread misinformation especially when it's blatantly done in large dump truck loads of BS after they were already told they were doing it.
Matrix, "basic" is the keyword here and this is 1min vid which is to be encouragment for people to look for more knowledge on wide variety sources out there. Thank you for your input . There is really no point to rage on this. I owned 5 4ages and now for some time twincharged 4agzte and have practical experience with variety of setups in these units for about ten years now so "uneducated" is a bit off here. Realize that in real life 80% of people due to budget reasons soft turbo stock units and in that case bt will fail sooner. Also most statements in this vid refer to stock units and is correct - 4agze stock eats any stock 20v and as I assume you are 20v bt fanboy you just have to deal with it. If you rebuild your engine there is really no thing like "bt better than gze" because you can make anything, call it anything and the result just depends on you budget.
WhatIsMyNameDamnIt
There is a difference between basic and 80% wrong. Almost everything you said is either wrong or an opinion.
I believe there is good reason to rage against misinformation being spread especially after the person has been informed about the inaccuracy and especially after it starts spreading.
I don't know what you do for a living but I spend about half my day dealing with customers or people on the forums or facebook who learned some stupid crap somewhere and I have to take time out of my day to tell them what they learned on the internet was wrong before I can help them move forward in their build or planning.
What is your source on saying "80% of people due to budget reasons soft turbo stock units and in that case bt will fail sooner."? I would love to see this study done. How many BT rods have you personally seen fail? How many of those were you close enough to know the tune was dead on, the motor was healthy to begin with and that it was directly related to boost?
All you have to do is look at a dyno of a BT to know it will outpace a LP GZE with ease and give a SP GZE a good run for it's money as long as you can keep it in the power band. It just takes more work to do so. The only comparative testing I have done was 0-60 but my BT before I hooked up my wastegate was about as fast 0-60 as my old GZE setup with the same T25 turbo at 12 PSI. I never recorded times on the SC but the turbo setup at 12 PSI was noticeably faster than my largeport GZE was at 8 PSI.
Running 7 PSI on the BT it's about 1 second faster 0-60 than the old GZE converted to turbo at 12 PSI.
It's not that I'm a 20v fanboy. I spend a lot of my time helping people build 16v motors because you can get more than 20v power for a similar price to a 20v swap.
I love the 20v but I love the 16 valves too. They are all great motors. I do think the SC12 is a glorified boat anchor, the GZE intake system is a pile of crap and the GZE ECUs all suck balls so when you spend the extra money on a GZE you are buying a 7 rib 4AGE, a good set of pistons and a big pile of crap.
That is opinion and has not more business being in a video titled facts, tips and basics than most of what you posted.
I can however back that opinion with solid facts like the fact that most AFM ECUs suffer from low end leanout. The few others are still archaic 80s engine management. The MAP ECUs all tend to suffer from a pretty serious power dip.
The SC12 and SC14 are rated by the manufacturer to 12 PSI at sea level. Even there the Adiabatic efficiency is in the low 50% to 60% range. They cannot be rebuilt and are getting more rare and more expensive by the day.
The GZE pistons are also really low compression by todays standards. Great if you are going for 600 hp but for anything less than 400 I would rather get some higher compression aftermarket pistons. Stick them in a 7rib and slap a turbo on it and you are further ahead than the GZE by a mile.
The main point though is that most of what you said is wrong and most of the rest is fairly uneducated opinion. The fact that you try to defend it instead of fix it. IDK. I just hope people will read my post to give some contrast if this crap has to be up on the interweb.
Matrix Garage
You twist the meaining of opinion to your liking. You dont know me so considering my words as unthought/unexperienced copy of somebodys else words just shows your ignorance and ego blindness. Gze power dip you fix with piggyback but for any reasonable numbers and control you always go with SA so how the old 4age ecus handle things does not matter. Supercharger is the drivers choice because it gives control but not power, turbo gives numbers but is not for twisties. I personally tested all kinds of 4ages in e8, e9 and ae86s and supercharged engine has best characteristics to my liking although it lacks top end power and power overall (below 210hp).
You obviously are bt lover because my "opinion" that st is better for turbo just entraged you. When you treat the vid as reference to stock engines there is no one mistake in it and I stand by it. Your input contains interesting information for the readers but unfortunately i get the feeling that person who wrote is has his own head deep inside own ass. Untill you acknowledge that you are not most "educated" person on the planet and until you manage to actually get along with people like a human being should go and spread your knowledge somewhere else.
WhatIsMyNameDamnIt
Dude referencing stock engines it's still all wrong.
Stock engines aren't turboed and don't make 200 hp NA.
You never even acknowledged the 7 rib largeport and still haven't addressed the fact that it exists.
You haven't addressed the fact that the 7 rib LP has the same crank and rods as the smallport.
I can go on and on but it doesn't matter because you are too busy defending yourself to stop and listen.
I am not the most educated but then how many videos do I have on youtube telling people about things I don't know?
Even the writeups on my website are only on things that I am quite familiar with and if anyone ever comes to me and tells me I have misinformation, outdated information or messed something up I research it and fix it because the truth and accuracy is more important than my ego.
Matrix Garage
stock engine is engine with factory internals. stock unit with slapped on turbo is still stock and usually makes above 200 in case of 4ages. yes I did not address 7rib lp as well as many other surprises that you may find when browsing many 4age units as it was not the goal of this clip to go into every detail. We will not get into agreement as you obviously dont see my point and i do not see yours. Please spare some effort to make your own 4age educational vid. It may be the one like this to initiate interest with 4age or longer knowledge base for more advanced audience. I will definately like it if you care posting me the address.
Forgot to mention blacktop had itbs
How bout price
song please
stunt509 Darifto Forajeestorm
What about 3beam motors
I was wondering if you knew how much a 4AGE BlackTop cost???
it depends where you are from. ebay man.
White letters=hard to see with background
If the 4age 20v is rebuild it cant take turbos
No, please. Dont put turbos in a 4AGE...
And why is that? Why shouldn't we put in turbos, does it cause any kind of harm to the engine?
come to ae82.net - natural home for any ae82 owner. You will surely get advice there and will be able to share pics etc :-)