I don’t know why base 911’s never get talked about. My 997.2 is slightly slower than the S. But has a better ride and is much cheaper to run, and is a better road car.
Agreed - the rpm guys noted the cayman GTS with 350hp as the sweet spot for the street (ostensibly power to weight). But that’s right where a well specd 3.6 997.2 base is at. I have a 997.2 GTS and kind of feel the same way between a 997.1 GT3 and my GTS. That 3.6 GT3 is only 8 normally aspirated HP different but the GT3 is very nearly double the price. (But not double the car) And all the GT3 s are low miles cause nobody drives them. They truly are a track car for cars and coffee cause everyone is just collecting them now and you can’t open them up or you are twice the speed limit in 2nd or maybe 3rd… Exactly what makes your 3.6 fun… you can wind the gears a bit without a court date.
@@jackmueller897 the 997.2 C2S only has the bigger 3.8 L and the body is the exact same as the base 3.6. It’s is only the C2 GTS that has the wide body.
Because the base is not the dream, it's the daily they don't lust over. 🙄 Yes you have an awesome car... but how would it compare to my 996TT or my 79' 930? See it doesn't matter until you own more than one and one is your daily and one is something else to you. I would trade them both for a 959K or a 911GT1 Stuppenversion or a couple other dream vehicles.
@@randominternetuser2888 - well - I don’t know about that… you are just letting slip your age maybe… if you grew up in the 80s you had a 959 (444 HP) on the wall and maybe you drove somebodies 993 when funds allowed - a former daily driver likely as your homage dream car - with its whopping 285 HP - still the dream car of many of the air cooled era rennthusiasts. Yet somebodies old daily none the less. But the 959 was the start of the water cooled (water cooled heads) era… so plenty of 959 fans find their gentlemanly 996 C4/S the perfect “tribute”. The HP doesn’t make the driver… just the car you connect with. Turbo is but a flavour. The base models appreciate lock step with the S models and are every bit the fun on your local lane way. (The 996 didn’t even have a C2 S and the C4 vs C4S is fat chick / skinny chick and both 3.6 so if you were deciding on a 3.6 996 or a 3.6 997 - I would say pick the best used sample you could afford). FWIW I would race with a 997 3.6 over a 3.8 any day… the 3.8 M97 (family) got dumped for the MA1 (family) engines to correct the cooling as HP grew. If you race an M97 the bore score demon would haunt your thoughts - real or perceived. 3.6 M96 all the way…
I have to say my 718 2018 GTS 2.5 is a fantastic car - super fast and the exhaust sounds great when warned up - ok 4 cylinder but value for money ticked / speed ticked / holds value ticked / drive / road holding ticked and on top of all that it’s so supper quick
We have a massive snobbery problem in this country with 911 base / s. The S has always outsold massively, yet in Europe i believe its the opposite. If i was ordering new right now it would be a 911 base without doubt. They carry a good base spec like never before. For normal road use by far the best choice.
Surprised nobody mentioned the 996gt3rs. 682 produced and many of them tracked and crashed. very few low mile examples. I think that will be something for the future? Hopefully the 996 gets the love they deserve. They are amazing to drive.
Great video Lee, loved the insights. I’m biased but 997.1 turbo is still massively underrated, looks good, understated, but then an absolute weapon in all weathers. Yet still “reasonable” to purchase. Agree about upgrading the PCCM, 997 owners have been waiting with envy over 996 owners for the past couple of years.
I’ve been eyeing these for years and they used to be in the six figures here in the U.S. but they are finally beginning to come down where I can get one. I guess the 991 and 992s are driving the price down.
Great video Lee, 997.2 GT3RS gets my vote purely because the GT3RS 4.0 will rise and drag the 3.8 up with it. It represents the last of alot of 911 perfection, manual RS, mezger engine, non eletric steering, small footprint etc. I can see the 997.2 GT3 RS going past £300k in the next 10 years.
Thanks Jeremy. Interesting point on the 997.2 GT3 RS, it's a superb machine as you rightly point out, and one of my absolute favourite 911s to drive. I do think they are underrated in the marketplace currently (relatively speaking).
997 2. Gen... I love the lights in the back, so much more as Gen.1 ❣️ I remember, when it comes out...at first I was happy, that the 997 have normal Headlights again, like a 911 and not like the 996. And when the 997.2 come out, I was mind-blowing how modern it looks with the new tail lights 👌🏼😃
Thanks for another great vid. For me the biggest underrated cars I own them lol 1. 996: a well sorted one will be definitely sought after as these being the best of old and new. 2. Cayman GTS 2.5. This is a great car that people will get over the sound block. This are too cheap now. Although I’m probably moving into a 982 GT4.
great insights however i couldnt make my mind. 997.2 i think but on other hand for a daily 991.1. and further more, should i sell my MK4 supra to buy one 911? this really does my brain.
I have no idea 😂❕ But I love Ferdinand und Ferry Porsche and a few other people of the Family Porsche ❣️ As car, i think a 993 would be my favourite... with modern mods, or 964 RS Clubsport 🤔 Light, pure, a bit louder ... so in this direction I think 😅 Love from Berlin 🇩🇪 Ramsi 🙋🏻♂️
We have a massive snobbery problem in this country with 911 base / s. The S has always outsold massively, yet in Europe i believe its the opposite. If i was ordering new right now it would be a 911 base without doubt. They carry a good base spec like never before.
Why oh why do all these channels ignore the Cayenne and Macan which account for 80% of all Porsche purchases and most watchers if the own a Porsche will drive one of the 2 models and yet on RUclips they are invisible .. ? Please reply
Currently fishing in the under £20k pool but very happy with my base cayman gen 2 for approaching 2 years. Still very tempted by 996, especially C4S and Turbo then onto a long list 😂
Those gen 1 996 C2’s at 300HP are actually lighter than an air cooled 964 or 993. They are way underrated if you look for a 911 sleeper that if you spend any money improving on gives old school feel but could be easily many hundreds of pounds lighter than any 997. The quintessential street drivers Porsche is a 6spd car under 3000lbs - the 996 is the last gen car left that can easily do that. And not throw the kids inheritance around the track if you want to go slide it around. I’ll be looking for a 1999 ish 996 C2 like 9werks to take a spot in the garage next to my 997.2 GTS
And make no mistake that Porsche classics group knows this - after building the 996 PCA Classic Club Sport 1 of 1 the 996s WILL be seeing a lot of love very soon! It was actually the 997 sport classic that pushed me off the fence hard to find my 997 GTS
The 996 was seeing a lot of love, globally, quite a long time before the PCA effort - if anything that car was behind the curve in terms of rising popularity of the 5th gen 996. From the metrics of this channel alone, faith in the 996 started coming back at its 20th anniversary in 2017.
I absolutely agree with his choices. However, there is one option that was not available at the time of this podcast. I think the Porsche 911 S/T will almost certainly be the best collectible, as it is truly the best 911 ever made for the road. Time will tell.
I agree. Maybe when a dealer buys it in but at retail it'll be more like £60k for a decent one. There are high mileage, poorly cared for ex-lease vehicles (caned from cold, scratches, damaged side bolsters and expensive trim) but who wants one of those?
Nothing wrong with the 997.1. It has the stronger IMS and apart from the odd bore scoring that didn’t affect all of them by far they are also a legendary purchase. Cheaper to service than the 997.2 and last of the mechanical steering before they introduced electric steering racks
PCA club site has a good overview of the 3 main IMS bearings. They are kinda all over the place. 98/99 996’s good 2 row bearing / 2000-2005 996 AND 997 has possible problems / 2006 to 08 997 better of the M96/97 engines. This stuff seems priced into the market. All 997s are hydraulic steering. But 997.2s are priced as that engine is the accepted as more reliable - IMS gone and water jacket done properly to minimize premature bore failures. So the market pays a premium for 997 2s and there’s just way less of them.
Why so angry?! I've found two examples for under £40k online today, never mind £50k, and it took me about 30 seconds to do so. I'm glad you've watched my video but negative energy is not welcome in my comments, particularly when your prerogative seems ill-advised.
@@9WERKSTV That was a really helpful video. My 4 pennies worth if anyone can afford to get a 991.1 in what ever configuration they fancy for £50k, in my case it’s a 4S cab, do it. What a car they are for that money. Proper engine and noise, they ride beautifully once the tyres are warm and plenty fast enough for our road conditions ie just getting into their stride at 80. Yes the steering is better in a 997 but you quickly forget that. WHAT-A-MACHINE.
I don’t know why base 911’s never get talked about. My 997.2 is slightly slower than the S. But has a better ride and is much cheaper to run, and is a better road car.
Agreed - the rpm guys noted the cayman GTS with 350hp as the sweet spot for the street (ostensibly power to weight).
But that’s right where a well specd 3.6 997.2 base is at.
I have a 997.2 GTS and kind of feel the same way between a 997.1 GT3 and my GTS. That 3.6 GT3 is only 8 normally aspirated HP different but the GT3 is very nearly double the price. (But not double the car)
And all the GT3 s are low miles cause nobody drives them. They truly are a track car for cars and coffee cause everyone is just collecting them now and you can’t open them up or you are twice the speed limit in 2nd or maybe 3rd…
Exactly what makes your 3.6 fun… you can wind the gears a bit without a court date.
Well, the S has not just the wider body but also the bigger displacement. This made the difference for me when I was getting my 997.2.
@@jackmueller897 the 997.2 C2S only has the bigger 3.8 L and the body is the exact same as the base 3.6.
It’s is only the C2 GTS that has the wide body.
Because the base is not the dream, it's the daily they don't lust over. 🙄
Yes you have an awesome car... but how would it compare to my 996TT or my 79' 930? See it doesn't matter until you own more than one and one is your daily and one is something else to you. I would trade them both for a 959K or a 911GT1 Stuppenversion or a couple other dream vehicles.
@@randominternetuser2888 - well - I don’t know about that… you are just letting slip your age maybe… if you grew up in the 80s you had a 959 (444 HP) on the wall and maybe you drove somebodies 993 when funds allowed - a former daily driver likely as your homage dream car - with its whopping 285 HP - still the dream car of many of the air cooled era rennthusiasts. Yet somebodies old daily none the less.
But the 959 was the start of the water cooled (water cooled heads) era… so plenty of 959 fans find their gentlemanly 996 C4/S the perfect “tribute”.
The HP doesn’t make the driver… just the car you connect with.
Turbo is but a flavour.
The base models appreciate lock step with the S models and are every bit the fun on your local lane way. (The 996 didn’t even have a C2 S and the C4 vs C4S is fat chick / skinny chick and both 3.6 so if you were deciding on a 3.6 996 or a 3.6 997 - I would say pick the best used sample you could afford). FWIW I would race with a 997 3.6 over a 3.8 any day… the 3.8 M97 (family) got dumped for the MA1 (family) engines to correct the cooling as HP grew.
If you race an M97 the bore score demon would haunt your thoughts - real or perceived. 3.6 M96 all the way…
As a 987.2 Spyder owner it’s pleasing to see the Cayman R mentioned 👍
I have to say my 718 2018 GTS 2.5 is a fantastic car - super fast and the exhaust sounds great when warned up - ok 4 cylinder but value for money ticked / speed ticked / holds value ticked / drive / road holding ticked and on top of all that it’s so supper quick
We have a massive snobbery problem in this country with 911 base / s. The S has always outsold massively, yet in Europe i believe its the opposite. If i was ordering new right now it would be a 911 base without doubt. They carry a good base spec like never before. For normal road use by far the best choice.
Surprised nobody mentioned the 996gt3rs. 682 produced and many of them tracked and crashed. very few low mile examples. I think that will be something for the future? Hopefully the 996 gets the love they deserve. They are amazing to drive.
Great to see the Cayman R mentioned! Great video, happy new year!
Happy new year, Julian!
Great video Lee, loved the insights. I’m biased but 997.1 turbo is still massively underrated, looks good, understated, but then an absolute weapon in all weathers. Yet still “reasonable” to purchase. Agree about upgrading the PCCM, 997 owners have been waiting with envy over 996 owners for the past couple of years.
Completely agree with your sentiments, Matt. The 997.1 Turbo is ludicrous car for the money, I'm a fan!
I’ve been eyeing these for years and they used to be in the six figures here in the U.S. but they are finally beginning to come down where I can get one. I guess the 991 and 992s are driving the price down.
@Troy Patillo just before covid hit the 997.1 turbo was occasionally popping up under $50k
I own a super low miles 996 carrera 2 manual it's super to drive and i feel it's a very underated and under 50k
Great video Lee, 997.2 GT3RS gets my vote purely because the GT3RS 4.0 will rise and drag the 3.8 up with it. It represents the last of alot of 911 perfection, manual RS, mezger engine, non eletric steering, small footprint etc. I can see the 997.2 GT3 RS going past £300k in the next 10 years.
Thanks Jeremy. Interesting point on the 997.2 GT3 RS, it's a superb machine as you rightly point out, and one of my absolute favourite 911s to drive. I do think they are underrated in the marketplace currently (relatively speaking).
997 2. Gen... I love the lights in the back, so much more as Gen.1 ❣️
I remember, when it comes out...at first I was happy, that the 997 have normal Headlights again, like a 911 and not like the 996.
And when the 997.2 come out, I was mind-blowing how modern it looks with the new tail lights 👌🏼😃
FIRST LOOK: Porsche Vision 357 - The Best Birthday Present Ever? | Top Gear
ruclips.net/video/zjgaehy_TH8/видео.html
Thanks for another great vid.
For me the biggest underrated cars I own them lol
1. 996: a well sorted one will be definitely sought after as these being the best of old and new.
2. Cayman GTS 2.5. This is a great car that people will get over the sound block. This are too cheap now. Although I’m probably moving into a 982 GT4.
great insights however i couldnt make my mind. 997.2 i think but on other hand for a daily 991.1. and further more, should i sell my MK4 supra to buy one 911? this really does my brain.
I have no idea 😂❕
But I love Ferdinand und Ferry Porsche and a few other people of the Family Porsche ❣️
As car, i think a 993 would be my favourite... with modern mods, or 964 RS Clubsport 🤔
Light, pure, a bit louder ... so in this direction I think 😅
Love from Berlin 🇩🇪
Ramsi 🙋🏻♂️
Great video! Lots of great opinions. Definately think the 997 will continue to gain value. Interesting to hear the changes in the Aus import window.
We have a massive snobbery problem in this country with 911 base / s. The S has always outsold massively, yet in Europe i believe its the opposite. If i was ordering new right now it would be a 911 base without doubt. They carry a good base spec like never before.
Be nice to hear about the wider Porsche range.
Why oh why do all these channels ignore the Cayenne and Macan which account for 80% of all Porsche purchases and most watchers if the own a Porsche will drive one of the 2 models and yet on RUclips they are invisible .. ? Please reply
Very interesting video, many thanks.
996 with 2 mods,, I'll make it 3...
Another great video
My budget right now 911 turbo... matchbox
Currently fishing in the under £20k pool but very happy with my base cayman gen 2 for approaching 2 years. Still very tempted by 996, especially C4S and Turbo then onto a long list 😂
Those gen 1 996 C2’s at 300HP are actually lighter than an air cooled 964 or 993.
They are way underrated if you look for a 911 sleeper that if you spend any money improving on gives old school feel but could be easily many hundreds of pounds lighter than any 997.
The quintessential street drivers Porsche is a 6spd car under 3000lbs - the 996 is the last gen car left that can easily do that. And not throw the kids inheritance around the track if you want to go slide it around.
I’ll be looking for a 1999 ish 996 C2 like 9werks to take a spot in the garage next to my 997.2 GTS
And make no mistake that Porsche classics group knows this - after building the 996 PCA Classic Club Sport 1 of 1 the 996s WILL be seeing a lot of love very soon!
It was actually the 997 sport classic that pushed me off the fence hard to find my 997 GTS
The 996 was seeing a lot of love, globally, quite a long time before the PCA effort - if anything that car was behind the curve in terms of rising popularity of the 5th gen 996. From the metrics of this channel alone, faith in the 996 started coming back at its 20th anniversary in 2017.
If you want a 996 I'd recommend getting a mezger model only
I absolutely agree with his choices. However, there is one option that was not available at the time of this podcast. I think the Porsche 911 S/T will almost certainly be the best collectible, as it is truly the best 911 ever made for the road. Time will tell.
I have been thinking about a 718 Spyder RS. Do you have any opinion on if that would hold its value?
987 Caymans most underrated.
Totally agree 👍
Great video lee, still totally in love with 996.2 C4 slimline 🦆🍳😎
Great vid Lee, & having recently traded up to a 981 Cayman GTS delighted to hear the support for that model from the guys at RPM!
This is an awesome video, thank you for spending the time to make something like this!
My pleasure.
A 991 for 50? What planet are you living on!?
I agree. Maybe when a dealer buys it in but at retail it'll be more like £60k for a decent one. There are high mileage, poorly cared for ex-lease vehicles (caned from cold, scratches, damaged side bolsters and expensive trim) but who wants one of those?
Couple on autotrader for less at the minute but higher milage.
You Cleary haven't done any research
Ahh There are loads of 996’s in Australia 😅
Yep
Excellent stuff.
Great video as always Lee.
What are your thoughts/opinions on the 997.1 GT3 and it’s future in the market?
Thanks.
Going to go up in value over the years
Owned a 997 C4S (black red leather) drove it, sold it for what I paid including ceramic bearing upgrade…..
Great videos, giving me something to consider…..
Wee bit of nonsense about 996s not being in Australia 😂
I got to get one of these eventually 🤤
928 S
nice video Lee - what would have been your choices?
Thanks! My choices:
- Best Porsche for £50k = Cayman R
- Most underrated = 997.1 GT3 RS
- Sure-fire investment = 964 Carrera
964 are so underrated - but it is the wife's favourite ....
Great video Lee.
Thanks Andrew.
Considering that boxster going EV in a couple of years, is the 718 a good buy? Just got one recently as an entry to Porsche
No
One with the flat 6 and manual yes. A turbo 4cyl auto is going to continue to drop in value
Great vid
Lets say, someone already owns a 996 c4s, 996 turbo s cab, 997 turbo s and a 993 c2. what should be next?
Probably selling one and getting into a new Porsche.
The saying goes, “The best Porsche is the newest one you can afford.”
Any GT product from Weissach.
Share the drive with a good friend who wants to experience driving these super cars!!
I'm not seeing any 991.1s for £50k or under, if I am missing these "bargains" please point them out.
There’s about 15 currently on autotrader. 😂😂😂
Best under 50K … no comment
Most Under rated = 996RS , 996 GT3, 996 40th, 968CS , 997.1 GT3 .
Investment point of view , all MT GT3
Great video any 991 model I’d be happy with fantastic to see rpm in video as well cheers
Nothing wrong with the 997.1. It has the stronger IMS and apart from the odd bore scoring that didn’t affect all of them by far they are also a legendary purchase. Cheaper to service than the 997.2 and last of the mechanical steering before they introduced electric steering racks
PCA club site has a good overview of the 3 main IMS bearings. They are kinda all over the place. 98/99 996’s good 2 row bearing / 2000-2005 996 AND 997 has possible problems / 2006 to 08 997 better of the M96/97 engines.
This stuff seems priced into the market.
All 997s are hydraulic steering.
But 997.2s are priced as that engine is the accepted as more reliable - IMS gone and water jacket done properly to minimize premature bore failures. So the market pays a premium for 997 2s and there’s just way less of them.
spot on, Jeremy.
(997.2 retained the hydraulic rack. Switch to electric steering happened with the 991.1.)
The 997.2 has hydraulic steering.
So useful
Would be even more useful if it was accurate, these “experts” advising that the best £50k or under buy is a 991.1, find me a 991 for under £50k
Why so angry?! I've found two examples for under £40k online today, never mind £50k, and it took me about 30 seconds to do so. I'm glad you've watched my video but negative energy is not welcome in my comments, particularly when your prerogative seems ill-advised.
@@9WERKSTV what exactly was angry about my comment 🙄😀
In the USA, the base 911, is PDK only. You need to get the "T" or above to get the 7 speed manual transmission.
997.2 squad!
What is your guess on a 996 MK2 GT2??
Love them - this video filmed only last year explains why: ruclips.net/video/9au65pt0K_8/видео.html
993 Turbo !!
Glad I bought mine 10 years ago.
What is this video?? Only 911:s?? It was supposed to show different Porsche models, so not only 911. At least the title said so.
991 ? $60,000 up not $50
I love the Taycan. 🤩
Liked the video, but the scrolling background 🤢
boxster is the best porsche
Easy question.....997 turbo
Let me guess 996😂😂
964 manual C2’s IMO are the most sure fire investments around $100k
Just get one before Singer do!
What’s a cracker?
You're going to spend more of my money now aren't you! not sure I should watch.
Hahahaha!!
@@9WERKSTV That was a really helpful video. My 4 pennies worth if anyone can afford to get a 991.1 in what ever configuration they fancy for £50k, in my case it’s a 4S cab, do it. What a car they are for that money. Proper engine and noise, they ride beautifully once the tyres are warm and plenty fast enough for our road conditions ie just getting into their stride at 80. Yes the steering is better in a 997 but you quickly forget that. WHAT-A-MACHINE.
The one you can afford maybe? Haha
The same as always. A 1989 Porsche 930 Turbo Cabriolet.
Ueee
Any 996 Gt3 would be a great investment ☝️6 speed manual, no nannies, raw analogue driving experience and low build numbers 🤌
none