Should you solder your SpeakOn Connectors?
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2017
- Episode - 42 First Uploaded: 2017-02-03
In this video we talk about best practices in assembling standard SpeakOn connectors. When and why they should be soldered, and how to avoid making a mess of them when you do. This is a follow up to the 'Do you solder your speakon' poll I uploaded to reddit here -
www.reddit.com...
and on SoundForums.net here -
soundforums.ne...
Thanks to everyone who participated in the poll and left comments and opinions, your perspectives were incredibly helpful in putting this video together. Here's the link to the original poll - goo.gl/forms/qdHX1WbFPDhurf2y2
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This is great if you suck at soldering. His iron says it all.
Hey Scott, thanks for the comment. I noticed you also posted another comment below agreeing that if you need to solder, purchase the proper connector for soldering.
In this comment though, you're suggesting that if you're better at soldering and have a better iron, you should solder your speakon? Can you clarify what you're disagreeing with (if anything) in my video, or is it just my abilities and tools?
Also, leaving a comment on a channel with only 4k subs is kinda like sending me a message directly. Maybe being rude is your thing, but it's not very professional in a small industry when you're using literally your full name here to comment with.
You got it! The other ones are more expensive, but are easier for people to solder if they decide too. Not much experience is required. The only real time one would solder the screw term ones is if the diameter of the cable is 10 gauge. And this only gets tinned and the sleeve has to be removed.
FLUX! Flux is your friend. That would solve your soldering issues with the direct soldering route. It allows the heat to spread very rapidly. That way you don't have to sit there with iron waiting for the whole damn thing to heat up.
Make sure to pretin the wires first with flux. You'll have better control on how far back the solder flows. Also throw a little solder on the mating surface...with flux.
Yes I know most solder is flux cored but it's not enough in this situation. You want hot and fast here...in and out.
Since flux is corrosive you gotta get that crap off of it. Brush and scrap (plastic tools only) with plenty of IPA (helps break up the flux). Obviously let it air dry before assembling it and plugging it in. Lol
Trust me I'm an RF tech with his IPC- 620 cert and IPC J-standard. I build space grade cables everyday. You don't suck at soldering you just need a little flux in your life. And some pro tips. Great video though!
Yes - This is certainly not a class on soldering techniques!
@@brianorosco5628 not so fast! Flux is conductive enough to cause issues in DMX, and XLR, so I wouldnt go overboard.
“Grab a crescent wrench off the Lighting crew” LMAO, good luck with that!
Great video! I've probably come across about 4 x soldered NL4 connectors in my entire career (thankfully!); I think unless you're using STX or something designed FOR solder, I'd avoid soldering of SpeakOn altogether. It's just not necessary. That #1 posidrive screwdriver is mighty attractive....! It's weird what gets us techies excited isn't it.......
As far as I know and after so many time spent dealing with Speakon cables and connectors , it occurs to me that nothing can be better than the conventional mechanical tightening process. This is a type of work that demands the best that the technician is able to do and remains a good bet for anyone who wants safety in connectivity in Speakon connectors.
Thank you very much for your detailed explanation on your opinion !!
Instead of using solder to protect the strands from squeezing apart while screwing them into the connector, I usually crimp wire ferrules onto the exposed stands. This keeps them in place, even under a high pressure from the screw terminal.
The tin-alloy used for soldering is a very soft metal, therefore it may "flow" apart under the force from the screw terminal and might loose contact after some time.
This is (one of) the reason(s), why wire ferrules are recommended in electrical installations.
I often also have trouble with PowerCon connectors, which are similar to SpeakOn. If some lighting fixtures won´t work properly, there is a chance, that there is a loosen contact in the PowerCon connector (maybe producing sparks). This can be very dangerous, since PowerCon connects mains voltage !!
When fixing damaged connections, I make sure to tighten the screws properly. As you mentioned in the video, a PoziDriv screwdriver is the best ( and in my opinion only) way to do this reliable and without any damage to the connector itself.
Keep up the good work !!
Korni, thanks for the great comment. That's two folks now suggesting using ferrules... so it looks like some experimentation is in my future and possibly another video on the subject. Hopefully George from the other comment will post the amazon link to the kit he is using, so I can order one to try soon.
Thanks again for watching!
In most cases I use my KNIPEX 97 72 180 ferrule crimping pliers to press the ferrules to the cable. It has a beautifully soft grip, so it is easy to press the ferrules with force without hurting your hands.
This one creates two indentations in the ferrule, so the cable has no chance to slip out accidentally.
Most cheap wire ferrule crimping tools only press the ferrule in a square shape, but this should be good for a first try.
In electrical appliances I mostly use the ferrules with a colored plastic insulation in the back, but in tight spaces, like SpeakOn and PowerCon connectors, the ferrules without insulation are a good way to go.
It is mandatory to choose the correct size according to your cable. Also take care to strip the wire exactly the same length as your ferrule, so the wire ferrule covers the exposed stands and the conductor doesn´t stand over in the front of the ferrule. This is a crucial fact to pay attention to, the rest is just using force and a fact of learning.
+1 On the crimping ferrules, i am currently redoing a big stock (500+ NL4 and 400+ NL8) with ferrules instead of the tabs that Neutrik provides. The tabs and solder can come loose over time and make fixing connectors a bigger hassle.
I would try to find a VDE/GS screwdriver (that's what they are called in Holland), they are the perfect fit for Neutrik Power/Speakon plugs.
www.brigatti.nl/contents/media/wh35502_detail.jpg
The other thing is, when the screw clamps down on bare twisted copper it flattens the copper behind the friction plate which gives you a larger contact surface area
I think the idea of tinning the wires is carried over from a more simple type of connection where the wire is simply clamped under the head of the screw. The solder then makes the stranded wire act more like solid wire. When the connector is designed specifically to clamp stranded wire, the tinning is superfluous.
These connectors are just fine for stranded cable and solid. Neutrik has recommendations for different wire types and gauges. This guy just sucks at making cables. Probably a show tech instead of Systems Integrator.
You actually have a better electrical bond by using the compression of the stranded wire. Soldering this type of connection is less reliable no matter how good you think your soldering skills are
FERRULES! Ferrules is the awnser to the problem.
Big Ferrule fan now. After this video was posted a few years ago TONS of people suggested ferrules. Thanks for watching!
@@DcSoundOp I probably didn't read all the comments though ;) but again, it depends on the connectors generation. The third one, most recent nl4fxx , does not need anything. (Provided you bought genuine and quality neutrik) but the older ones (first generation and some of the 2nd gen) used to be provided with ferrules.
Yep, i use the STX version because they have larger pots and will fit 10AWG wire ...More road worthy and better for distance and sub cabinets
The SpeakON connectors can be soldered if done correctly, and a soldered connection is less likely to fail.
1. Clamp the SpeakOn connector into a vice to free up one hand.
2. Use a Weller or other soldering iron with an adjustable temperature and dial it into around 700 degrees. Don't try to use a cheap soldering iron with an unknown temperature and low power.
3. Use real SPEAKER cable with CLEAN, shiny, bare copper, NOT power cable with varnished copper.
3. If the copper is not clean and bare, clean it up to make the solder flow better.
4. Apply extra soldering flux, to make the solder flow better, if needed.
5. Don't try to tin the copper ahead of time: Place the copper inside the connector and apply heat to both at the same time, while allowing the solder to flow into the connection.
You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
I'm in the lightly tinned camp. It's near impossible to get 4mm cable into those little holes without stray strands getting all bunched up.
Use a solder bath, work flux into the strands as you twist the ends. VERY quick dip in the solder and your ends are all tidy.
All the cables I do this way last much longer in the field than their non tinned counterparts.
Also keep your ends as short at possible to make sure the strain relief grabs on good. May take a few days for the strain relief to bed itself into the jacket.
2mm cable ( shown in this video ) is a piece of piss compared to it's larger 4mm counterpart.
We use the NL4fx.
If you have to fix a cable on top of a truss, you didn't bring enough cable. Fixing should be done back at the shop. But I agree, I hate soldering even the XLR connectors.
I broke down last year and invested in a thermal wire stripper. If you think the mechanical strippers are fun, you will literally stay up all night finding wires to prep.
Ah, that sounds deluxe! Do you have a link to the one you're using, I'd like to check it out.
I use an old-school Patco wire stripper. It won't strip jackets off, but works great for the rest. Even has a length adjustment!
I've made tons of cabling, it's been a great investment.
In reference to Speakon panel mount receptacles; do you recommend soldering wires to the terminals or using quick connect terminals?
I've done both and don't know that I have a huge preference. Spade connectors are certainly easier to make up, and to repair if one does pop off in transit. If a soldered conenction comes off, it can be a pain to make that connection again on a job, especially if it's mounted somewhere that's not easy to get a iron into. Here's a link to the correct spade connectors for different panel mount NL4 versions, the standard version should be .187"
man... what a good video. thank you!
Thanks Colton, really appreciate the message!
well made vid
Great video dude. I gotta say I'm in the light tinning camp if doing a bunch of builds. I find they better survive disassembly/reassembly in that the copper strands don't get chowdered up. There can be stiffening of the wire but not where the cable will be flexing.
You've made me rethink this for my next builds though.
You're damn brave putting yourself out there - techs are renown know it all jerks and I imagine you'll get all sorts of responses!
As a lighting guy. I have even learned some stuff from Steve, a sound guy! Who Knew!
Thank you for these videos they help tremendously.
Thanks for watching, I'm glad to hear the videos are helpful!
Soldering a wire that you will be putting under a screw terminal is 100% wrong and creates a poor contact point. Solder will cold flow over time and result in the contact becoming loose. They make wire ferrules if you for some reason absolutely cant put bare copper under the screw terminal.
Nice video.
imo there is only 2 options. 1. Solder the wire directly to the pin (best connection ?), wich already pointed out leads to rigid wires that bends and eventually breaks off, or ruins the stability of the connector when the plastic gets too hot and begins to melt, or 2. just screw it together.
Soldering on wires and then using a screw/clip to fasten them makes for bad connections that has to be often opened and refasten the screw to keep a good connection.
I would personly always go with just using a screw/clip directly on the copper wire. The wires don't get rigid and have a much better chance at never have to be fixed. Should you get to the point where the copper wire gets so oxidiced that you get a bad connection it's propably time to put the cable to rest anyway.
Beside that discussion about to solder or not to solder, I really wonder why almost noone is producing some Connectors that is made of heat resistant plastic.... Its like a soldering iron I once had where the steelgrib to place the iron in was loose and I once put the solder iron into the plastic holder without noticing the steelgrib wasn't in place .. turned around and the soldering iron had melted almost the whole plastic holder .. and I you look in disbelieve why you don't think of that when you design something that is supposed to be VERY close to a piece of iron that gets 300+ degrees hot.
Wich made me come to the conclusion .. 30 years with Speakon and noones ever made a heat resistant versions = The connectors are NOT supposed to be soldered on.
Cool.. Good Feedback
dip the copper wires in solder flux first and apply a drop of melted solder from the iron tip on them, they'll suck it up fast and easy. i think tinning the wires is a good idea because it prevents oxidation.
One of the biggest mistakes inexperienced people make when soldering is that they use solder that is a much heavier gauge than they need. Lighter gauge solder will make it easier to control how much solder you apply. Despite the pitfalls demonstrated in this video, I still prefer to tin my wires but only if I have access to my Hakko FX-888 soldering station. I would only use a simple plug-in soldering iron as a last resort.
Another point I must mention is that engineers and designers aren’t always right and I think one such case is that metallic piece (a small plate whose name I do not know), which is around the screw of each contact and enters the receptacle, theoretically preventing that each screw cuts wires to the cable, due to the screw turns. I never use this piece because it doesn’t allow me the tightening I think is right. Forgive me if I'm wrong on this.
Sorry, but wire ferrules is the way to go. No soldering involved and AWG12 should fit well.
@DcSoundOp Any tips on soldering the NLT4MX-BAG Speakon Connector??? Ready to pull my hair out over here!
Those just have the four BIG solder cups if I remember correctly? My best suggestions would be to make sure you have a bunch of flux in those cups before you start, like Louis Rossman amounts of flux paste... then I'd go for a thick tip on the iron & crank up the heat a good bit. If you have a good iron that you can crank up, that's great. If not, a lot of folks will take the opportunity to grab an industrial Weller amzn.to/2NcQL2j for getting a lot of heat down quickly. Hope that helps, let me know how it goes!
@@DcSoundOp They’re like half-moon shaped solder points. Man it took me HOURS to solder that thing last night lol. Funny thing is, when I bought it I thought it had the screws/cups similar to what’s in this video (just like my female speakon connectors), so I wasn’t expecting to have to do all this lol. I wish they’d release a version that has the screws instead of these stupid solder points. Last night was brutal! I’m definitely gonna try what you mentioned above next time! Thanks man!
No soldering on Speakon connectors, due to the possibility of changes in the geometry of the internal contact points, which can cause problems. I don’t want that, you don’t want that.
However - and again I only mean this from my observations over time - I have noticed that the most recent Neutrik Speakon chips have components made in China, so as soon as I realize the fragility I simply refuse the Neutrik connectors they are proposed to me and I will go elsewhere to find the ones I want. And I still meet them, fortunately.
So helpful!
I noticed that Neutrik has released a new generation of the NL4FC connector. Have you worked with the new style yet? If so what are your thoughts? It looks like you will not be able to get a wrench on it the same way you were able to with the previous design.
To conclude, I think:
1) If a Speakon plug does not properly handle the conductors of a cable, the plug must be rejected. In the limit, if there is no other way, this cable must be changed by another cable whose characteristics are more appropriate to the available plug.
2) If there is no solution for both situations, it is best to leave because we did not do the homework. Which is inexcusable, of course
hi! Thank you for a great video! I have a very specific question. I've bought Mogami w3101 (2 pin cable) and NL4FC speakon connectors. Is there any way to solder them together?
Solder flows under pressure, so I would not tin the whole tip unless you're going to solder the connection. A crimp or even a clamp, bad idea.
What type of stores do you look at to find 12/4 SJOOW cable? I have always had trouble finding it for a reasonable price. Maybe I should be talking to integrators rather than electrical supply stores.
Depending on how much you are looking for, there are actually some fair prices on Amazon - amzn.to/2kTOC8N - that works out to be about $.94/foot and has free shipping. I've also purchased from Camel Traders before, who has it for $.80 - .94 / foot depending on the type and how much you're buying. I can't remember off hand if they charge extra for shipping, but I think they do for spools.
DcSoundOp Thanks!
Just subscribed from the r/livesound subreddit. I use 14awg for my speakon cables (I have a mobile rig). My solder pot has 40/60 solder in it (yes 60% lead). It's slightly more pliable than 60/40 and is workable at a lower temperature. I've always tinned my leads with my solder pot and I'm pleased with the results.
But recently I've acquired a ferrule crimp tool and a kit of different sized ferrules. You can't find them in retail stores in the US, so they have to be purchased on amazon or ebay. EU laws require the use of ferrules in all electrical work, you can't use bare stranded wire. So I took that concept to my speakon cables. They seem to be working very well, although I haven't given them a full torture test yet. What are your thoughts on using EU style ferrules?
George, thanks for subscribing and for the great insight. Do you have a link to the ferrule kit and tool you are using? I'd love to take a closer look, and if you have any photos of what your finished speakons look like using this method, I'd be really interested to see your process and experiment with it myself if I can get a hold of the tools.
You can e-mail me directly @ dcsoundop@gmail.com
Thanks!
Ferrules are almost never used in the AV industry. People who use them don't read the manuals. Ferrules only have a place where stranded wire needs to terminate to a solid wire terminal. Most AV connectors are designed for stranded wire including speakons.
SJ means service junior. S just means service. S is superior to SJ. But SOOW can be too thick to fit in a speakon lol
So to do it with a 10 gauge wire how would you do it 🤗
Use the proper NLT4FX connector that is sized for 10 AWG wire. The NL4FC series can accommodate 12 AWG as specified by Neutrik - www.neutrik.com/en/product/nlt4fx
@@DcSoundOp will this still fit into the same connector meaning the flat part thag lays in the box
@@DcSoundOp can’t believe you replied thank you man 🙌🏽
Can we use 52 VDC on a Speak-on connector.?
My amp has 2pole SpeakOn output, but I want to bi-wire the connection to my speakers. Can you bridge the 4-poles inside the connector to split the 2 powered pins into two sets of two connecting wires?
You could use a four conductor cable with two wires connected to each pole of a two pole connector. Soldering two wires into each cup at the connector would be a huge challenge though. What's the reason you want to do this?
What if it's just a 2 wire? what pins to use? how would one know without using a tester.
If you are purposefully wiring two wire into an NL-4, you would typically use whatever pins are needed by your specific speakers. Usually that would be pins 1&2, but JBL subs for example have selectors so you can use either set of pins.
"Put the freakin' boot on first..." DOH
🤣
I reckon that the tip soldered wire would have gone in fine. I'm sure those screws can come out way further than that.
+Will Kirk Those screws fell out a few times because the were so far out... thanks for the watching though! Cheers!
How do you disassemble the NL2FX plug from the wire?
The NL2FX is the same as the NL-4 in that it has screw terminals for termination. You can solder to them too as mentioned here www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/nl2fx - but I wouldn't recommend it unless there is a very specific reason to do so.
For speakons that are meant to be soldered buy the correct ones. www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/stx-series/nlt4mx
Name of screw driver
If that’s a question, It’s linked in the description above, thanks for watching ✌🏼
@@DcSoundOp ok got it. Thank you
always. solder. every. audio. connection.
R A except when you shouldn’t... since that’s kinda what this whole video is about ; )
TLDR; NO DO NOT SOLDER
Unless you want to watch the whole thing and find out that there are ones that you should solder!