Did The Leafs Make The Wrong Decision Trading For Foligno? + Is Hyman Gone?
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2021
- Steve, Jesse and Adam discuss the Maple Leafs decision at the deadline to trade for Nick Foligno instead of Taylor Hall. Then, are they about to lose Zach Hyman in free agency? Finally, who should Toronto protect in the expansion draft?
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They did get secondary scoring. What they missed again was Primary scoring.
Point is that it's not enough. This Third like "shut down" bs isn't going to work. You need guys chipping in, Kerfoot, Soup, Engvall, Simmonds shouldn't be in this lineup.
The best thing for the leafs to do is trade tavares! It’s the truth but if the leafs situation at this point next year is similar, trade JT for good, young depth
@@mycrease8936 kerfoot is great, i hope he stays, but trade the others - soup cant finish smh
@@youngo1 that contract will look like crap real soon.
@@randyt9455 Kerfoot hasn't done anything as a Leaf but a good game in the playoffs.
Steve is slowly turning into Sid Seixeiro and it's fantastic.
Secondary scoring?
Your main problem these playoffs was primary scoring, the secondary scoring was pretty solid actually
When you're top 2 guys who are making 22 million bucks score 1 goal, youre probably not going to win any series.
@@OSUCoach crazy stat
@@OSUCoach Only have 8 points combined in 9 elimination games. That's pretty bad.
The team was not built to win in the playoffs under duress - it's obvious. The facts speak.
@@OSUCoach Top Three guys, it's not his fault but Tavares was injured and not playing. So it was really 33 million not scoring.
Steve is looking like he just went through a divorce and she got the kids, house, and most of his money.
Lol true
lol took his dog too
@@wilfredwitzke2607 No, he doesn't look THAT bad.
🤦♂️😭😂😂
Left him for his best friend, Drew the producer!
This video just reminded me of just how long the Leafs have been hopelessly incompetent and that back in 2006, the Leafs traded away their former first-round pick, Tukka Rask, for Andrew Raycroft.
I remember Dubas saying last year that he believed in his analytics so much that he'd place his job on the line if we don't get past the 1st round
Turns out that if you give 3 players 11m a piece you cant afford secondary scoring, grit, good defence and good goaltending.
Never buy rentals with first rounders. We're buggered in the future.
Hall wasn't going anywhere except to Boston. He shot down a deal to Vegas, and chose his destination. The Leafs could have offered the same package they gave up for Foligno, and Hall wouldn't have waived his NMC
Steve’s reaction to Hutchinson being claimed is how Canucks fans reacted when Vegas claimed Sbisa. That was a good day.
That was a good day.
Blame the first line Adam. You didn't have PRIMARY SCORING against the habs.
Saying this specifically as a Sharks fan, Joe Thornton should only work for the San Jose Sharks organization. He will always be remembered in SJS and will have his number retired the moment he announces retirement. It would honestly break my heart to see him be anywhere else.
I'd easily give gally 1.5 to 2 he slots in 2nd or 3rd line. Can play top line if needed.
Here's my idea of a near perfect offseason:
Coleman signed to 5 years at 5 mil per
Oleksiak signed to 4 years at 3 mil per
Bogosian signed to 1 year at 1 mil per
Galchenyuk signed to 2 years at 1.25 mil per
Spezza signed to 1 year at 750k per
Cizikas signed to 3 years at 3 mil per
Dreidger signed to 3 years at 3.5 mil per
Goodrow signed to 3 years at 3.25 per
Leafs get some fantastic depth, Coleman to play up front, a fantastic backup in Dreidger, and are still under the cap. This offseason also requires Rielly to be moved which isn't a huge deal considering Sandin has been very good and will only get better. Move him to recoup some picks and for cap relief. Kerfoot is also selected by Seattle.
Roll out these lines:
Coleman - Matthews - Marner
Galchenyuk - Tavares - Nylander
Goodrow - Brooks - Mikheyev
Engvall - Cizikas - Spezza
Sandin - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Oleksiak - Bogosian
Campbell
Dreidger
Steve D this is for you: Shanahan has seen this before. He played against them and won a cup with them in that decade.. Detroit Redwings in the 90s. Have faith.
No salary cap and if I remember correctly Detroit spent large the years they won the cup. Toronto did too back in the day, but they still couldn't win
@@scottmiller8617 I feel like they did that after the 97 cup trying to keep the dream going. Those first two were drafts and building the core (Russian 5 and the addition of Shanahan who was having some locker room issues.. But in Toronto's case, they don't need to spend any more money. The talent is already there. They're one of the most talented core of players to ever play the game.
@@Mtzrlein I respectfully disagree. They don't have enough forward depth after the big 4, their D core is improved but not championship caliber, and their coaching staff definitely isn't. That being said, Marner, Matthews and Nylander are all young and under contract, so some more natural development/progression might be all that is needed, but I still think the D core and bottom 6 aren't good enough to win it all.
@isthatyoubetha in 1998 the Wings had the biggest payroll in the league by a fairly large margin, and were a top spender right up until the introduction of the salary cap. They drafted their core, but they were well paid, and they were wayyyyy deeper than the Leafs, so not comparable imo
@@scottmiller8617 we always could use more defense
The leafs need to pick up anthony cirelli - one of the best defensive forwards in the league.
Or
Boone jenner - he can crash n bang and put up points and is cheaper then foligno.
And
Josh brown - a very good stay at home defenceman that wont cost as much but big,uses his boddy too.
The leafs should trade for Jeff skinner just for the memes
Injury or no injury. When I saw what Dubas gave up for Foligno I was convinced that man is smoking something. Can't recall a worse trade in recent history.
once again, Hall had a no movement clause, Boston was his choice
Hall was willing go to the leafs but the leafs just didn’t want him
Im sure if the Leafs came knocking Hall would have answered.
I don't think Hall was going anywhere besides Boston that's what it sounded like.
So
@@xxmadetthisforyouxx1699 no hall himself said a week ago it came down to a few teams. One for sure was the islanders but once the New Jersey deal went through it was Boston and maybe 2-3 other teams. He just wanted a team with a shot to win and with the possibility of resigning
Hall did what they paid him to do in Buffalo. Bring them the first overall draft pick.😂😂🤢🤢
Am I crazy for thinking they should move on from one of their big three contracts just to get some solid depth? Like you could get a solid 50+ point guy for the top 6, a solid top 4 D, and maybe even something else, a bottom nine piece for Marner.
if we get anything for Marner it has to be a top 2 D man like Seth Jones
@@colinlata6224 marner ain't worth a top 2
Marner needs to be traded before trade deadline next season just to get his worth back up again. His playoff performance did him no favours, but having another huge regular season will get him attention again.
Yes, this trade was awful, and I said it was awful when it happened. Everyone waaaay overvalued Foligno.
I find it amusing that just 2 weeks ago all the media circus was trumpeting how amazing Kyle Dubas was - especially at the deadline adding Rittich, Foligno and adding Nash for nothing (plus cap relief) to carry the supporting cast.... and now all these same media are saying the complete opposite now that they've imploded.
YES STEVE! Give Thornton a job with the team! I love that idea. The guy is such a positive influence with the group.
Even at ticket booth, he would be worth $700k.
IS STEVE OK
No
If they lose Hyman I will be very very pi$$ed!!!!
EDIT: People need to stop talking about Hall. He was NEVER coming to Toronto. I met him several times while he played for the Oilers. He already knows what it's like to play for a Canadian team in a Canadian market. No way at all he was ever putting himself back in that position.
Hyman would fit great in Montreal
Hyman would look sooo good alongside Stutzle and Connor Brown......just saying
Just think Boston got Hall and Lazar for a 2nd round and Bjork...
Good luck. I think this was the Leafs' biggest window in decades.
The realignment alone should've been a free pass to the 3rd round.
@@ngrosskurth The Habs were simply outgunned in every facet going into the series.
@@frodobaggins9752 Price just wasn’t having any of it
Im going to miss Steve yelling ZACHARY ON THE ATTACKERY on LFRs :(
I can’t see Zach going anywhere. These guys don’t even mention Anderson will most likely be gone next season so between him and kerfoot that’s 10+ mil In cap space freed up.
@@strackmx3188 they mention Freddie leaving earlier or later in the full podcast, but Hyman can still get more money somewhere else, plus he knows he’s not going to win if he stays, plus no more insane Toronto media if he leaves. Unless Marner & Reilly get traded... Which I wouldn’t mind at all.
@@mst3k54 idk I feel like dubas is gonna do everything in his power to keep Hyman. Wouldn’t surprise me if he manages to give him a contract for 5.5-6 mil. the idea of trading marner tho is starting to grow on me, but I personally think they need to keep Reilly. The way he played in the playoffs is what we need.
Hyman is worth 6.5. He is the horse on this team and can pot 30. He doesn't get enough respect for his skill + shot
@@saskk2290 ya usually he would be, but with the cap stuck at where it is for a few years he’ll probably be around 5-6 mil
How does someone join the conversation and Dubas was schooled on trades Zietzev Brown for ? Coddy Cicci ? Kasperian Kappenen for ?
Nick Folingo injured Reily Nash Injured Andy Hutton ?
Miilkeyve wrist injury ? Great speed big body being used wrong ?
You bring up Taylor Hall but you fail to bring up how Hall only wanted to be traded to one destination and that was Boston. He wouldn't go to Toronto.
I feel they might consider trading Mikheyev as well. Many of our forwards are gone this season. Safe to say. Hyman and Spezza come back, maybe Simmonds because he was really good until the injury but you're counting on an injury prone player to not be injured so I don't think he resigns.
Um, as a Jackets fans, I can tell you I knew Foligno was injured at the trade deadline. It wasn't a secret or anything.
Yeah he was listed as injured. I didn't think he was going to end up being traded for that reason. Leafs were pretty stupid to have gone with the trade knowing there was already an injury there. Nash was also out injured.
What’s funny is now they have no secondary scoring. Before round 1 they were an offensive beast that would crush the Habs.
If Leafs lose Hyman, and before that Kapanen - there goes any character left in the team
I just read Pontus Holmberg signed à two year deal. He is a goalscorer and wish u the best with him. Maybe he could be a direct impact. Oh no i just read he is staying in Vaxjo one more season. But he is good so hopefully he will be secondary scoring
Leafs need hornqvist from florida. He gets things done in front of the goal. He is a bit like holmstrom in detroit, he is a big help for other players blocking the goalie and taking care of the defense in front of goal
For those talking about secondary scoring, once the Leafs lost Tavares secondary scoring was gone, therefore the Dannault line who handled “Mathews, Marner, (?)” Line All Season handled them again in the Playoffs. Leafs management although younger, is just as inept as they were in the 80’s and it all started with signing Tavares. At the time the Leafs were 3rd in NHL scoring so why did they need Tavares? He was the Stamkos who they couldn’t sign earlier. The shiny bauble that would keep Leafs fans interested, and sell jerseys. Leafs had Kadri who was more than a capable at 2nd Line Center. Tavares is where the Spending started. That was July 2018, then Fall the same year Nylander decides to sit out for more money. At the time Kapanen took his spot and was playing great, and was on pace for an easy 25. He was faster than Nylander and wasn’t afraid of the corners or the front of the net. So within a year you have Kadri down to 3rd Line, Nylander getting $10 mill. for 7 goals in the first year of his contract, and Tavares making $11 mill. To top it off Carolina offered up, Slavin or Pesci for Nylander but Dubas had already promised Nylander he wouldn’t be traded. Guess Nylander had heard of the trade effort. Imagine Slavin in a Leafs jersey? Not to mention, dropping Brown to the Sens, along with Zeitsev. Now they’ll probably lose Hyman.
Woah first time I've heard Steve swear. I like it!
You have half the cap dedicated to 4 out of your 23 players. What are you talking about secondary scoring? Dubas shouldve thought of that before handing out these contracts. Now you're screwed. Shouldn't have relied on something that wasn't guaranteed... *cough cough* the salary cap
Problem was also coaching... hab’s shut down first line... Keefe didn’t react to that... put marker on line two, Hyman on three... Austin creates own chancesßßßß
The problem is you're paying so much for your primary scoring, that you can't afford good secondary scoring depth. You're relying on guys on rookie deals but you're trading all your early rounders for deadline players.
Can someone please link me to the report that Foligno was hurt before the Leafs got him? I’m sure it’s true, but I’d like to read it. Someone said Myrtle reported it, but I couldn’t find it.
Sounds like they need a couple of players named kasperi and andreas .... and also needed a guy like marner on a prove it bridge deal
Hyman is an essential player. He is the guy that battles along the boards, goes in front of the net and back checks hard. If they let him go, then they will be left with a bunch of Artists (i.e. Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander) that hang around the slot waiting for someone to do the hard work and feed them the puck. This works very well during the regular season but, as we have seen recently, this approach falls apart in the playoffs. I don't know about you but I also truly miss Connor Brown. Connor Brown could do the same job as Hyman and play on any line, in every forward position with anyone on the team. They need more players like Hyman and Brown to enable the Artists to produce.
And we all knew foligno was injured before the trade happened... all of us
Leafs Medical should have caught it. You're allowed to check before a trade.
@@Nutshellbill it was reported by national sports networks before the trade
The only thing I would say is the leafs had NO chance of getting Hall. He wanted to go to Boston, apparently Vegas threw everything at Buffalo to get Hall and he turned it down. Hall got to pick. So saying a 2nd rounder for Hall isnt really a comparable trade.
Lol, this is fan reaction at its best! In a month this will change
I though Hall-Tavares-Nylander wouldve been magic
You got that right
Hall refused to go to VGK, there was literally no way he'd play for dumpster fire TOR. He wanted to go to Boston.
Thought*
That is something straight out of heaven, Hall is one of my favourite players and that line would have been amazing
@@User-12133 And yet at the deadline Leaf fans all said Hall was a waste of a pick
I said it from day one, leafs got fleeced in the foligno trade
Am I missing something here? How is Willy and Tavares not secondary scoring? Did you mean third layer scoring?
tavares makes 11 million and willy makes 7. guys who make that much cannot be considered secondary scoring.
Usually your first two lines are your primary scoring. These guys are paid to be offensive players and they will play on the power play. Secondary scoring is your guys on the 3rd and 4th lines. They usually have others jobs like Penalty Kills, but will do some goals from time to time.
One more thing. Leafs scored more goals in Carey Price in first round then Jets have so far in 2nd round. Leafs got beaten by excellent goaltender. Campbell was spectacular and it was so tight that it took mostly one goal difference for Montreal to win most games. Very close Game 7 series. Better than past losses to Bruins, etc.
possible marner trade targets... matt tkatchuk, seth jones, sean couterier, jack eichel.....not saying they should trade marner but why is no one talking about considering it?
Hyman to Ottawa. NHL needs the NFL rolling Salary Cap model where you can renegotiate contracts or teams like Toronto and the Rangers and other contenders will get screwed over. Aka a sens fan.
Explain Rolling Salary cap model. It's not a hard cap but allows rich teams some wiggle room? Most NFL contracts are not guaranteed - the NHL owners would love that! I think GMs should be allowed a few "mulligans" to avoid having fat horrible contracts counting against the cap - if something could work.
As a Sens fan I wouldn't mind Hyman but the question is where do you put him when the Senators have Tkachuk Stutzle Formenton and Paul all on the LW so does he replace Paul?
@@AndrewRMD95 I think he would be a right winger in Ottawa tbh.
The cap is fine renegotiation is stupid because it makes bad gms and good gms less noticeable
@@wagglewiggle lmao so that's why you don't want it.
3rd line and 4th needs retooling big time, damn I miss Kadri. Need more guys that create scoring chances. Need to add a little more to the 4 as well.
Kadri will win a cup with Avs.
@@spittinvenom9671 maybe next year 😂
I just don't think Reilly is a number 1 Dman and I think the leafs really need one
Offensive defensemen are past history, not needed, Montreal put their Offensive D on waivers, They are still playing. Not many of this type of D in NHL anymore.
i dont like saying this but if one of the big contracts would have to leave it would probably be marner, matthews is a pure goal scorer and hes one of a kind, tavares is the two way forward so thats also important, and i see nylander and marner as the play makers, but nylander is 4 mil cheaper and is still an effective playmaker, it would be nice to keep them all but these contracts did not age well
Dubas should learn from bergevin how to sign key players before they hit free agency look at gallagher and petry (danault was offerd a contract as well but didnt accept)
Matthews + Marner combined for... 1 goal. $22.5 M scored ONE goal vs the Habs.
That's your problem.
Matthews didn't have Ottawa to feast on daily. Flat track bully boy
As a Columbus fan, I loved the trade. He missed his last game with the Blue Jackets with an injury, but I took it he was being held out in the event of a trade. Hindsight though is always 20/20. Taylor Hall was having an awful year in Buffalo. The trade to Boston rejuvenated him. The Islanders got almost nothing to this point from Zajac and Palmieri.
You can also do 6 and 4.
We can sit here and point fingers about the main culprit but I really do believe that everyone on the team does truly lack killer instinct. The habs didn’t lack it, and look what happened. Same with the avalanche and lightning. What’s frustrating is, I’m not sure how you develop that. I’m like Steve, I’m not sure where or what the leafs do from here. It’s pretty rough to be a fan right now
You should have seen hab fans crying after game 4, no they don't have it either.
@@wgemini4422 Fair point. They are currently leading they’re series and finished us off though no? My main point, this team lacks killer instinct and I have no idea how you coach that or bring that in.
@@justvvenom1177 You cannot, because it is not a thing. Jack Adam used to trade half of the team to keep his players "hungry", the red wings ended up not winning the cup for 20 years or something. You can only get killer instinct if you won, as Canadiens suddenly had it just because they won and you would immediately lose it if you lost. By the end of the season, 30 teams would have no killer instinct.
@@justvvenom1177 Jets is a mediocre team with a good goalie, yet people gushed how they are a team built for the playoffs with killer instinct just because they swept the oilers. You can be sure people would suddenly turn on them if they lose to the Canadiens. And vice versa.
The Leafs REALLY need a guy like Gally. Seems like Hymen is a heart and soul guy. They need more Hymens, not less.
You can take Gallagher if you want , that contract is god awful
@@jessicaabel3481 Habs are my team man. Love Gally !!!! I would take him everyday of the week just for his energy.
@@NIGHTBREED3R Habs are my team too but energy or not since the last 2 years he started shooting from the board with the 0 angle shots and since then I just hate his guts , feel like his extension was given way too early.
@@jessicaabel3481 I wouldn't hate him for that. I think coaching has alot to with it. Our #1 line is certainly a shutdown line now. As for his contract at 3.7 I know there are tons of teams that would love him at that number. Alot better than Drouin. No idea wtf wrong with him. 5mil just sittin on the couch....ugh.
@@NIGHTBREED3R The thing is that 1st line should never have been a first line to begin with. Danault is a 3rd liner , Gallagher is a second liner and Tatar is.... done as a habs.
Well that all de have in Montréal secondary scoring
Serious thought from a sens fan: why not leave tavares unprotected and use that cap to resign Hyman and improve the secondary scoring?
Tavares has a full no movement clause so he has to be protected. Otherwise I'd agree, I like JT but his contract will only look worse as he gets older.
Brown should have been a Leaf, Komarov should have been a Leaf, Kadri should have been a Leaf. Killer instinct, yeah they either let them go or traded them away. Granted Kadri is a liability during the playoffs because he switches his playoff mode into overload, but I think the Leafs should have been able to temper that. They were right in getting rid of Johannsen, and Kapanen, but they were a year too late and would have opened up more room for the first 2 players I mentioned. Scoring is important, but when you cant score you need to shut the opposition down. They did not have that the last 2 years, and they had Dermott, and Sandin who were horrible in games 5 and 6 which cost the series.
They literally just said what I was thinking.
i am starting a petition to have the leafs sold to a owner and send the whole franchise south of the border and i am picking Nebraska as my favourite location.who's with me/ its no longer a Ontario problem, and before you say "no" are you voting for Ford in the next election after covid and lets be fair here, its not like he didnt try? even though he didnt score in the whole time we were locked up at home.
Cant call Foligno a mistake. The mistake was not having Lou Lamoriello to find players. Shanny said they tried real hard without luck. Letting Lou go was the mistake. And Hunter.
Can you guys please invite downtown sports on the pod
I love Foligno on the 1st line for 3.5 million maybe 3.75. Hyman as much as I love the guy, he would have to take a hometown discount or walk.
a lot of people would disagree with letting Hyman go
if he wants too much, let him go
he cant score anyway
Yes I said at the time that trading for Foligno was a huge mistake. The lottery ticket looks great when you buy it but after you lose the lottery you wish you had your money back
Doesn't appear to me they're as deep in goal as you suggest.
Ya what if Campbell falls off like Murry or Andrew Hammond. You're fucked if that happens
Yes they did. What should the leafs do because of poor trades like that? The leafs are not better for next year because of trades made, and less draft picks. How long will this go on?
If Hyman really wants to be a Leaf they will find a way - sign him to a 1 year bridge deal with nice bonus and lock him into an 8 year contract once the cap goes up (and it will)
Give HYMAN the A and trade Reilly. He's great but replaceable. Hyman is NOT. If they lose Hyman I'm cheering for whatever team he ends up on. He's too important.
Nylander, Kerfoot, Spezza and Campbell, was why the series was so close.
Mikehev shoots like a 8 yr old girl.
Foligno and Nash were useless trades.
Maybe Leafs management feel Hyman after injury is not the same Hyman from before.
Taylor Hall is a stud, prior league MVP, that guy can tilt a club close to being great.
If i was bergevins i would try to sign hyman on free agency if he got the cap and if hyman can give a good deal like everyone did last summer on the habs
What if you traded Marner then resigned Hyman and added Dougie Hamilton?
I love Zach Hyman. He has the most heart on that team
Love Steve..LOL!!!!
Could you imagine the Hell we would be living if Mike Wilner covered the Leafs?
I man galchenyuk resulted in a goal 🤷♂️
At least the Leafs can still afford to pay Kessel 1.2 million this year
Wow...thats alot to pay for an injured Foligno. I actually feel very bad for hardcore leaf fans.
They lack secondary scoring wtf no. The secondary scoring scored and played well...
You can not win without guys like Hyman. Keep him and get 3 more like him
Hyman and Anderson will just be the 2 most recent guys that walk for nothing. Bozak, JVR, Leo, Gardiner, Polak, Hainsey, Ceci, Barrie. Add in assets that were dealt at the deadlines to acquire players like Foligno for example, and then add in moves that were made to get under the cap, like Marleau. All of this adds up to a small fortune and here we are with bare cupboards
Yep, and losing Connor Brown as a throw-in to get out from under Zaitsevs contract hurts too
Your secondary scoring is willy and jt... they did their job. The problem is PRIMARY scoring. Matthews 1 goal and marner 0 goals is not good.
Hyman isn't worth 6, he's simply not. Stick a potato with a combination of marner, matthews, tavares, nylander they put up those stats. Galchenyuk showed that
You speak a lot of common sense, Hyman on another team will end up as a 3rd liner.
If they knew he was injured prior to the trade and traded anyway,
then absolutely.
we cannot lose Hyman.. literally the only leaf that can retrieve the puck in the corner. buddy is a work horse
Toronto cannot let Hyman go.
Signing John Tavares for that money harmed the Leafs. That money could be spread around to Hyman and a few others worth the 4 Million mark
He should not stay for a pay cut. He deserves much more great player and person. Get as much as you can Hyman. Don’t stay with the Leafs they will never win a cup.
You can buy scoring depth for less than 5 million dollars.
Leafs need to sign and draft more Ontario and Western Canada boys!!!!!
They didn't want Corey Perry and he's from Peterboro..lol..lol..lol..
This was the year, it's gone
Forget Taylor Hall, I've said it before and I'll say it again. They should have got Sam Bennett - he's a better player and cost less.
I know its not the intention but they say panini so much in these clips that I've already eaten 2 paninis in the last 24 hours... Not that Im complaining, paninis are great.