Thanks for the video! I’m also a Christian and fairly new to fantasy. Do you have suggestions for series that are well done but aren’t plastered with “adult fun”? I’ve already read LOTR, much of the cosmere, I had a hard time getting into WOT though.
I don't, though I have disliked/been dissappo8nted by his books for some of the reasons you named. While I admire his creative mind, I'm for example of the opinion that his books are too formulaic, and that his characters fill out certain archetypes. That is an argument I think you got wrong. I doubt people criticising him for having an apprentice or a soldier or a prince in his books. It's more like "too tropy": I mean, Kaladin is the perfect hero of a modern fantasy story. Brooding, self-less, stubborn, an underdog, a leader, opposed to authorities, suffering depression (that last one feels to put on the list but let's be honest, it is a thing used to make others feel sympathy towards him). Also, for me personally, the issue I have with his prose is a bit more complicated: it simply doesn't match the story. With Mistborn, it worked because it is a bleak, gray-ish world. But with an epic, bright and vibrant world like in the Stormlight Archive, I'd expect prose that enhances and matches the world. His prose often feels like salt to me when cooking. Just seasoning a meal with salt makes it completely palatable and fine. But it lacks any flavour, any spice. So, that from my side. As I said, I respect him as an author and his fans... though sometimes when people only talk about Sanderson it feels like other amazing authors fall short which is a little sad.
That is true. Unless you’re a big book reader of fantasy or sci-fi, you’re not gonna know who he is. But his popularity has gotten bigger since he had the most successful Kickstarter in world history.
I don't really understand your point that you can't dislike Sanderson's prose, because the things people criticise it for are intentional. That doesn't make it good. If his writing style is intentional, it's still a writing style that many people don't like, and it's perfectly legitimate to not like it. I don't like super spicy food, it wouldn't make sense to tell me that I should like it because it's supposed to be that spicy.
Same. I'm a Sanderson fan and if he's doing it on purpose then he knows how to make it more marketable to a wider audience that some will and haven't agreed with. I'm cool with it, but being intentional doesn't mean being exempt from all criticism.
Tbh one of the biggest reason I’m a fan of Sanderson is because of his easy to read, direct writing style. He’s one of my favorite authors for that reason. Same goes for his cinematic imagery descriptions!
Same! I cant remember the words used, the scenes are crystal clear in my head. Its like a video game even with my "imagination" (clue spongebob meme) as the ultra high def graphics card.
As for the last point, most people didn't NEED to know much about these books. That's the level of trust his fans have in him. That could always change, but right now, he's earned the trust.
Agreed. I've never been disappointed by anything he's put out, what are the chances there will be four flops in a row? Plus I've gone into literally every Sanderson book blind because I hate spoilers. I'm sure if he included a full plot synopsis in the KS, most people funding it wouldn't have read it anyway.
I trust Sanderson with my future reading whole heartedly. But if I remember the kickstarter correctly, I knew exactly what I was getting, they said they would probably eventually release these books in other methods it just probably wouldn’t be the special edition and you’d have to wait for a while, the only real argument here is the shipping costs it would be cool to have had a bundle option, but at the same time you have to think how much of a mess it would’ve been to produce 4 books to hold in inventory and ship at the same time but only for some customers. All in all I think it was concise, well explained, and handled as well as it could have been.
I LOVE that Sanderson does not include graphic adult content. I do not need to see characters in the bedroom. I prefer the more concrete elements of a relationship. Bedroom stuff is too predominant in entertainment. Often unnecessarily so.
I'm personally in between I sometimes think it's unnecessary but with a bedroom scene you really get real intimacy between two characters which sometimes helps the story.
I really commend you for bringing up Brandon Sanderson's lack of adult content, and then defending it. I really do not enjoy reading a lot of "adult fun" scenes in books, mainly because they make me uncomfortable, although I do respect authors who include them to further the development of their characters. The lack of those scenes is, as you say, a breath of fresh air. I like how Brandon Sanderson more than makes up for the lack of "adult fun" by writing many scenes showing us the struggles of characters falling in love, and the struggles of characters to stay in love and together while trying to save the world/ not dying. It's very compelling and interesting storytelling.
I don't hate him. But I read the Mistborn trilogy and do not understand why so many people count it as a favourite fantasy series. I don't get why it is so beloved. I found it very mediocre. Then again, there are books I love that others dislike. No one can please everyone. His books bring a lot of people a lot of joy. I can appreciate him for that. 🙂
I also don't get why a lot of people regard Mistborn as so overwhelmingly groundbreaking. I read the trilogy but I liked not loved it to death. I think he's a very accomplished writer but not once in a lifetime genius.
The Mistborn trilogy is overhyped, so I can see why readers who have already read other fantasy works can find it mediocre. I think the main reason is loved so much by fans depends on its well constructed plot and magic system. That being said, I personality loved how everything comes full circle, if you know what I mean
@@tali5065 well mistborn will be better if u read it after Stromlight archive cause then you know lot about Worldhopping(people travelling different planets), Gods holding power which a shard 16 No .. I think People will definitely love sanderson when he finishes his story Stromlight archive mistborn elantris warbreaker dragonsteel it is all connected so you are only given a small details cuz All his book are connected About how 16 people from yolen became Gods by killing adonalsium and what went after COSMERE UNIVERSE
@@ambarghosh7433 I’m trying to remember how it was received originally when the first book came out, and I think what the early adopters found really original and exciting was mostly the hyper detailed, almost RPG like magic system, and people also love how he did his actions scenes, which were described in a very cinematic way. But it was divisive. Some reviewers saw that as original strengths, and others saw the same things as problematic, the book feeling too much like RPG, and the lacklustre style too close to a screenplay for a movie. The dark Lord twist was good, but not really seen as groundbreaking.
One of the main reasons I see people dislike Sanderson are his fans, actually. I've been trying to get a good friend of mine into the Cosmere, but he actually deliberately told me that it's fans like me that are making his books unappealing to new readers. Made me realize that Sanderson has a very devout set of fans, and that if we're too forceful there's a high likelihood of turning people away who otherwise might enjoy the Cosmere.
No different than those who hadn’t watched GoT while seemingly the whole world was all “are you crazy? It’s amazing watch it”. Reaction videos are a thing because people enjoy sharing what they love with others. It’s not Sanderson fans, it’s fans in general and it’s human nature.
Yeah, I know one booktuber who's said that if she were to read more Sanderson, she would do it "privately", because she doesn't want to engage with the fanbase.
I’m the opposite, if I see someone go on a rant about a book they’re passionate about in the genre that I like, I will absolutely give that book a try.
I think all of these, except a couple of those that aren't really related to his writing, simply comes down to the statement 'You can't be all things to all people'. One of the great things about reading is that there is a huge variety of books that you can read in all different types of style. I personally get annoyed when authors distract me with "impressive" prose. But I know there are a lot of people who like to be impressed by the flowery language and there is nothing wrong wit that. They're just unlikely to enjoy the same authors that I do.
Spot on. It's just opinion and personal preference. A good writer is one that does what he is trying to do well. And Sanderson does what he is trying to do almost perfectly.
My personal preference is: you don't need to make your prose "flowery", by all means keep it simple. Hemingway is a genius writer and his prose is deliberately, thoughtfully uncomplicated. Just don't write like a high schooler redditor writes fan fiction.
This is it exactly. There are far too many people that, when confronted with something they don't like, are swift to label it "bad." That's like disliking pizza and labeling it just bad... For many people, pizza is great.
@@CertifiedBullpupHater some people just don't care about the explanations to magic, Sanderson's Mistborn books are 300 pages explaining how his magic works, 200 pages trying to get to the point and 100 pages of actual story
I'm a huge Sanderson fan. I wonder how many other authors this sort of thing could be done with. I'm inclined to think he has received so much of the criticism because he has become so well known.
@@theatheistbear3117 agreed. His characters behave like they're holding a movie script and reciting their lines for the scene. On the other hand I do still like the books overall, always interesting, and always have a good plot payoff at the end.
Sorry... Late to the discussion: Funny... my biggest gripe isn't Sanderson fans, as much as his detractors. Nearly makes me want to read more of his books simply to be in opposition. Many (not all) of the folks who say they don't like him will go on and on about why. And when they speak on his "simplicity" and "predictability" ... it all comes off so holier-than-though and ultra-highbrow. All inadvertently being pretty judgemental and snooty, because as they go on telling you how it's "not for them," they'll add something like "However, ppl who like simplistic, predictable storytelling are clearly, well... simplistic and less intelligent. It's cool, whatever... do your thing, but it's not my thing." Or some variation of that. I mean.... jeeeeeze. Maybe that's why some fans get defensive with criticisms aimed to only elevate the one who is criticizing? That said, I am fine with it truly not being someone's cup of tea. But stop with the fallacies that depict you as somehow better than everyone else... Probably the same is equally true of the more rabid BS fans when they freak out over valid criticisms. I'm unintentionally offering one having a wide arrangement of writing styles to enjoy in their personal quest of reading fulfillment and literature in general. No worse, no better... just authors possessing and utilizing different kinds of storytelling. Then... the question might be something like, "Did this author accomplish what they intended, with the palate of efforts, techniques and characteristics they chose to use, and ultimately tell a good or interesting tale in its own right?" If they didn't meet their own standards for their work, then that is of the utmost importance in beginning to determine its worth or value. Example: If I was to judge everything Hanna Barbara did with their animated shows as being less-than other animation companies who had more frames per second, and more animated renderings without so much repetition of cels, etc... then I would completely miss out on some other, great content that also utilized that 'simpler' animation style, merely because I refused to see any value in the lot of it. Can't I enjoy Scooby-Doo AS WELL AS a Miyazaki film? Or enjoy Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons as much as the animated film, Akira? Can't I get value from each, maybe even for different reasons? Does everything have to be a Picasso? Can't we enjoy some Banksy, too? Or even some 'lowly' comic book art? Does that determine how simplistic anyone's mind is? Or does it demonstrate an openness to appreciate varied examples of creating art? Anyway.... carry on.
You just hit the nail EXACTLY on the head. A big issue with art in general, from writing to painting to music, is a LOT of so-called "art enthusiasts" go out of their way to only admit liking the most obscure, different, and "complex" forms of the art in question, so as to appear "better than" and "smarter than" most people. They wear as a supposed "badge of honor" the examples they claim to enjoy, because they think if other people know they are really into things that are overly-complex, it will make people think they're "intellectuals". Thus, anytime something is widely popular and loved, these types will often go out of their way to criticize it and drag it down, because if the masses like it, then it must not say anything special about oneself to be seen liking it, too. It's absolutely toxic, absurd, insecure, and immature. Often the most "nose-held-high" folks fit those last adjectives to the tee. They are so desperate to be set apart from most people to appear better, that they go out of their way to like complicated/ abstract stuff, while also going out of their way to avoid liking anything mainstream. It's a massive ego trip. The irony is, these people prove the exact opposite about themselves in their attempts. How often do we see critics of any genre of art praise something that is not well-known and/ or overly abstract, while denigrating things many people (who ARE avid consumers of said art-form too) tend to really enjoy? These critics don't value quality. They value uniqueness and obscurity and the abstract, but not due to these qualities making something good, but rather for these qualities in and of themselves. I'm writing too much here. It's hard to totally put into words, but a lot of us have identified it in critics and the like. They are so snobbish in their desire to not be correlated to any majority opinion. And hypocritically, when they do find something unknown and obscure to praise, very often if that thing becomes popular down the line, they will abruptly and harshly turn on it the moment it gains majority awareness. It's very transparent. The VAST majority of Sanderson "haters" fall decisively into this category. Some I'm sure have legit criticisms based on their personal preferemce, but after reading countless criticisms of his work with a genuine desire to understand why these people feel such, this has become apparent. Glaringly so. The man is a once-in-a-lifetime talent for storytelling, world building, and creativity. And his ability to create such varierty of unique works so quickly is a testament to his gifted mind and discipline, plus his love for the craft. His worlds are each distinctly unique from any other fantasy and from each other, and it takes quite the creative genuis to create so many unique but complete magic systems in addition to the worlds. His characters have far more depth and development than most other fantasy characters, they are believable in their human traits and flaws, and their dialogue makes sense and flows naturally. He doesn't deserve all the negativity, but it's sadly par for the course for anyone with talent such as his. If anything, that says more about many humans, than about authors or muscians or artists.
Those Kickstarter arguments are really weird. It was a month long first of all. They kept bringing out information about it. You knew what you were getting; Brandon Sanderson books. That was what was being sold. You could also get the PDFs. They also said at one point during the Kickstarter they could bundle the books at the end of the year I'm pretty sure. And also, they definitely said the books were going to retail. Absolutely. That's a weird criticism.
THERE ARE MUCH BETTER SAGAS FROM MY POINT OF VIEW: THE DARK TOWER, MALAZZAN , EARTHSEA, ROBIN HOBB, PATRICK ROTHFUSS....THE WITCHER, JOE ABERCROMBIE...
I would argue Kelsier is a very morally grey character. All of Sanderson’s “criticisms” are pros for me. I love his writing, I also love beautiful prose. You are allowed to like both. And in terms of the kickstarter, those things you listed are just plain stupid. If you don’t like the way the kickstarter was made and yadda yadda, don’t back it. You can’t fault other people for putting their money into it just because you don’t agree with the way it was made (not saying YOU, but the person who brought up those “criticisms”). Also, you didn’t have to buy the physical copies, I got the ebook bundle. Also, he is releasing each of them on Amazon a couple months after the pledgers get it.
And as for the "no one knew what they were buying, excpet that 3 were Cosmere and 1 was not", that's ridiculous. He literally had spoiler streams where he talked about the books in detail and read out the first chapters! As for people feeling forced to buy them, he had also talked about the books "probably" becoming available through traditional publishers at some point, which is all he can really say until he has a deal signed. In fact, that's the 1 criticism I have about the Kickstarter; I felt like there should have been at least 6 months between the Kickstarter deliveries and the books being available on Amazon. Ideally I feel like the listings should not have gone up for any 1 given book until all the Kickstarters had their copy of that book.
That’s what makes them valid criticisms. They are subjective. I’ve read the 1st three books in the Stormlight archive and couldn’t be bothered to finish it out. I may finish it when book 5 comes out, but it just feels wayyy too tacky. The actual story is superb, but essentially, it’s just one really big YA novel. Brandon Sanderson is the Anime of literature. And I (and many others) despise anime, for its oversimplification and juvenile disposition of tragic concepts.
@@austinquick6285I don't really agree with you, but maybe phrase it as the "shonen of literature" rather than an enormous category of work? If you most likely mean to say "simplistic and childish". Even some shonen like FMAB can discuss significant concepts and serious subjects with depth. It seems a bit simplistic to write off an entire category of storytelling. Legend of the Galactic Empire, Monster, and some others are basically as far from "juvenile disposition of tragic concepts" as you can get :)
@@RenaissanceRockerBoy I’ll agree to disagree. Again, he’s great at story telling, but Stormlight archive is the least bit tragic. It’s just a page turner. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, it’s just not for me. I’ve read ALOT of different books.. I mean ALOT. And Brandon is simply someone who id recommend to a friend who isn’t an avid reader, because the themes, the plot, the characters are way too obvious, and predictable. No work is required From the reader. He treats the reader like a sensitive child who can’t read subtext, and basically holds your hand throughout the entire story. I’m not saying every anime is like this, but most, certainly is.
I have three family members who work for Brandon. I asked if there was a way to hang on to the international orders and ship all four books at once, and they said there were no warehouses in the area that were large enough to store that many books. But I also remember Brandon saying something recently about getting a new warehouse. (Which might still not be big enough-- that's a lot of books!)
Being that famous is bound to get you some haters ig, I understand that his books might not be liked by a few but idk why someone would hate such a nice guy
Please don't buy into the argument that people just dislike him for being popular. It's a bit more than that, but fans like to just make this claim. I commented above with more if you were interested.
He donates five million dollars every year to the LDS of Mormon church that then uses those funds in partial to continue a campaign of hate against LGBT+ people. That alone should be enough to warrant at least minor scorn.
"you can't blame the guy for having bad writing because he does it in purpose" is one of the worst takes I've seen. Simple and accessible != Simplistic and bad. There are lots of authors with simple and accessible prose that is also poignant, concise and beautiful. Sanderson is bloated and calls attention to itself by being so obvious, and unnatural. The opposite of windowpane
I dont hate sanderson i actuale like the guy but i think he is over hyped. What i like abput the dude. Hard worker Like his magic system And the dude writes like a beast i appreciate that. For me like i said is he is overhyped . I took a break from reading in my teen years and the start of my adult years ( puberty women stuff like that). When j got back to reading every o e was saying sanderson was the best he was the boom. So i started of with mistborn. Forst book amazing Second book meh Third book read 200 pages and stopped and that was almost 2 years ago. Sanderson got me back into readimg then i found out i was mpre into grim dark and historicale fiction. I belive there are other authors which we can recomand to people but everyone is like on auto pilot and only say sanderson. Then my seco d problem The fans. Dude i just said i tjought book 2 was meh and i did ot finish book 3 i just sinned on booktube. I dont like when people follow someone so blindley and act like they cant do no wrong. How many people i told that i did not like the 2nd and 3rd book of miatborn ( loved book 1) and they treat me like i am a idiot .my tastes have changed like i said grimdark and hiatoricale fiction but no you must love sanderson and if yoi dont you are the devil. Maybe some stuff are alittle hyperbolic but those are my experinces with sanderson fans. Again like the dude and i actuale like some of his books but his kind of books are not my go to from the start and there is no problem with that
I feel the same way about sanderson, I like him alot as a guy but I tried reading the way of kings and let me tell you it was a pain to get through, and I have read my fair share of long fantasy and classics before, so the length wasn't an issue until I got so tired of it to a point that I got sick of reading it and every time I picked it up I felt like a heavy weight was on me. And when I told a bunch of his very very dedicated fans they were baffled that I didn't like it, cuz how could I not like SANDERSON! THE king of fantasy (at least that's how I see the fans think of him) I found alot of things that I didn't enjoy with his work and I was planning to continue with it, but after much thinking I think I'm better off not to do so, instead i'll read something else more to my taste. Also alot of his fans told me to listen to the audiobook in order to get through his work, and to that I say then what's even the point of reading if the book can't be enjoyed if I read it myself ?
Have been thinking about getting into reading Fantasy. This video convinced me to give Sanderson a try. Also put a smile a face when you stated you were a Christian and could relate to the no "adult fun" in his novels. I'm here for the fantasy, the adult intimacy has no bearing on me enjoying entertainment, especially with how blatant and common it is these days.
Lol, that's Gen Z in general. I'm an atheist and I'm actually tired of seeing unnecessary sexual context in everything. It's been overused lately and it has been frustrating us.
The fan base for me, I stopped recomending his books because his fans can be really toxic. If you don't like a character an explain why people just jump down your throat about it and why you are either "Dumb & don't understand the character" or "You'll like after the 3rd re-read...." I just can't....
I have never seen this before, it's actually the opposite, people who hate brandon sanderson's books say stuff like "I can't see why people like his books", "this IS bad", "this IS boring", just straight up not acknowledging that their opinion isn't fact.
Except for a few irrelevant points (kickstarter, his popularity etc) it is a pretty good summary of why I tried Sanderson over the last decades and after a few books realized that even though his writing got much better after WOT and when he started Stormlight it would never be a writer for me. I don’t hate him for sure, he’s quite a super nice guy (saw him twice at book tours, chatted with him once) and full of interesting ideas that when he talks about them, and passionately at that, sound awesome, but I just don’t enjoy much his stories, and DNF a few. The criticism predates his popularity, though. It was essentially all their since the first reviews of Elantris, of the first Mistborn, Warbreaker etc. His first few books were criticized also for their massive reliance on dialogue. To me the Cosmere has become a bit the MCU of Fantasy. I’m happy for its fans that he’s so prolific, and for Brandon that he’s so popular, but it’s not my cup of tea as a reader of Fantasy or any other genre. I will just say this about the prose though: it’s not because Brandon says he wants it to be invisible and feel like every day language and simple that this choice can’t be criticized. When you don’t like this style, his occasionally approximative grammar and word usage, his lack of work on the language, his prose is hardly “invisible”. It rather stands in the way of his story.
I hated the MCU so that definitely explains some things. Hard agree. Prose can’t be invisible. If people voice as a complaint that the style is too simple, someone has noticed it. It’s a valid criticism.
Totally agree with you on the pros of the language, I had difficulty going through the name of the wind but what made me keep coming back to the story and eventually finishing it was the pros, in sanderson's case it just made me get away from the book further.
@@zhyarjasim There are other things that weren’t working for me, but the language sure was a big part. And while I’ve read in English for 40 years now, I’m not a native speaker-it’s not so common an English writer has put me off because of syntax or grammar or badly using words. This was early in his career though, maybe it got a bit better over time, like he got much better at describing scenes after studying closely how Robert Jordan did it while he finished WOT.
@@dominicaudy8479 As a fellow non-native English speaker, I do find that I pay more attention to English grammar and syntax. I hate reading in my native language, personally, so I exclusively read English. Sanderson’s style put me off for similar reasons, along with why he chose to write like this and the mentality behind it.
@@theatheistbear3117 I disagree I feel like as a non-native English speaker, Brandon Sanderson’s books are easier to get into than most fantasy books. I think it’s more accessible and easier to understand
Same. I keep wishing for more of the earlier stuff of Brandon’s. But ever since The Way of Kings I feel like his direction is getting worse the more leeway he’s given from editors and his beta-readers
@@chandlerholloway3900 he's appeased the woke mob and allowed their politics to invade is books either because he is a doofus, or he is in cahoots with the globalists. I tend to think of him as a doofus.
There are a lot of authors that write in simple terms but are interesting to read, even Bukowski and Yoshimoto Banana. It's because they have a certain rhythm and are not repetitive in their prose. Everything I read from Sanderson so far was waaay too repetitive to just call it intentional or simple and effective. Why does the sentence "Character nodded." appear 3!! times on the same page in Mistborn? Did no one edit this? How many times can you write "xxx frowned" "xxx raised an eyebrow" "xxx flushed/blushed" "xxx smiled" with the exact same words in a book without noticing yourself that this is just not good writing? It's not simple, it's mind numbing. I could skim over Sanderson's texts, understand the story and not lose much. If i did the same with LeGuins Earthsea I would lose A LOT.
People's bewilderment and loyalty for some personalities used to be funny... It is now disturbing. A terrible writer is just terrible. Sanderson fits that category. It is as simple as that.
Eh, I found Yoshimoto’s prose to be sorta underwhelming. Sanderson’s isn’t great either :p But I was reading and the example called my attention since I felt disappointed as I went into her work.
I tried to get into Sanderson. I thought he was pretty average, i didn't necessarily hate his style, he has an interesting imagination for the scale of story he wants to tell. However, Sanderson's books are very, very long. It begins to wear on you after a while. It also gets very frustrating reading his book because the points/ideas he is trying to get across could be more concise, and cut down to be significantly shorter. After readings long chunks of his books if you think about it, it can be summarized in a few sentences, meaning large parts of the stories are unnecessary, or filler. Sanderson will also do a lot of exposition dumps in his books, why not include that info then. In order to make the "world building" immersive you need those colorful stain glass prose. He give barebone ones, which makes reading his books a task rather than enjoyable. Which is what I think is people's biggest gripe with him, getting through his books is a task to get the small nuggets of the larger story he is trying to set up. Many people online say his world is great, we as new readers might have a vague idea of what is going on and why people love it, but when we attempt to catch up, we don't get anywhere near as interested as others are about it, and that is the issue. I think people run into this problem when reading his work, the substance, unfortunately isn't there to justify the amount of time we have to invest in reading all his work. I got like 8 books deep (which isn't a lot, but it actually is) before calling it quits. I'll likely just stick to summaries of his work if I want to know his larger picture. I will acknowledge his work is very easy to get into/good starting point for newer or not big readers, but his work requires too much investment that we're not willing to put in, because we find the way he gets us there tedious. This could also just be that my taste is different. I like dense, and shorter books, usually read classics and foreign classics. I'm more impressed when a writer can write a good short book than a longer one. As some people seem to care more for the high volume of content they read, I enjoy being able to sit with the material longer and reflect on it. Sanderson doesn't have much depth to his stories like that, because he is still setting it up for later books. I think a good way of expressing it: if a good book is like a good film, Sanderson is making movie length TV show episodes for a good TV show. He fall short of what we'd want from a good film, and plenty of people who put in the work to watch every episode of the show will enjoy it more than the casual viewer who just wanted a good film experience.
Ok I don't hate Sanderson, but his books are mid at best and trash at worst. 1. His prose don't become any less crappy just because it is intentional or accessible. ASOIAF, Harry Potter have accessible prose and are much better than Sandersons. 2. Shallan and Dalinar ARE NOT MORALLY GREY CHARACTERS. They just regret things they did in the past. That does not make them morally grey.
Shallan has murdered family members, sought to steal from her main ally, outright lied to everyone around her, and engaged with groups she knew to have negative intentions for her own gain. All while ALSO having a good heart, wanting the best for the world and people, and trying to be a better person. She is 100% a morally grey character. Dalinar spent the majority of his life as an extreme tyrant, a warlord who murdered countless in a quest for power. He has intensely violent tendencies, yet in his age he has matured tremendously and worked hard to change, grow, and redeem himself, all while still having that aggression within him. One of the deep character developments Sanderson wrote about him was, "Sometimes a hypocrite is a man in the process of change." A line which holds massive philosophical depth and wisdom. You are further proving the point of many haters either not understanding/ knowing his works, or just didn't read much of it in the first place, and are just hating to be contrarian. As for his prose. You're using a false position to dispute it. The argument is not that he "writes simple prose intentially, so it can't be bad." It's that just because prose is simpler, doesn't make it bad. He is intentional about his prose, yes, but the key here is that it WORKS for the majority of readers who can read giant books, and thus the success speaks for itself. If so, so many people are able to perfectly visualize his worlds and stories, and imagine themselves in them, and fall in love with the magic systems, then his writing is working. The argument is: it's okay to not like the simpler prose, but being simple does not automatically make it bad, and your dislike is a valid opinion, but not an objective flaw of his work. At the end of the day, if something works as intended, and draws massive success, then any attempt to label it as "bad" is going to be seen as foolish. If it was bad, it wouldn't have such wide appeal, considering the size and scale of his works largely blocks "simple" readers with lower comprehension from even attempting them. You HAVE to be an avid reader to be willing to dive into his books, thus if his prose is succeeding with the vast majority of those readers, it's objectively not "bad". You don't find this much success with a lack of talent or poor quality, not when your target audience excludes the population of people who WOULD enjoy "trash" writing.
@@JadusMoltriel No. She isn't morally grey. She is one of the very few complicated/layered characters Sanderson has managed to write, and has made "mistakes"/regrets past actions. But she is very clearly a "good" character. Everything she does DURING the events of the books is on the side of "good"
Sanderson is by far the best at building a storyline into a big finish. Each one of his books do this and make his style exciting and addictive. In my opinion, he's the master.
The whole - the character will discover things about the magic system that will save them because of that reason - what about the end of the final empire? Or the end of well of ascension (vin then elend?) aren’t these the exact same things?
Its not lack of adult content, everything is just so juvenile. Mistborn is one of the dumbest books ive ever read. I hate every book ive read by him, Warbreaker, Final Empire and tWoK. And none of the reasons you list here feels familiar. And in my understanding, except for the fans part, is the real reasons people dislike him either. I would recommend to watch JustJuanReaders review of mistborn and tWoK, because he puts to word every thing i dislike about Sanderson. Because i feel these are just trivial reasons, and not actually proper criticism of his mediocre work, i feel i need to downvote. Sorry. A theory I have is that, imo tWoK is pissporr stupid bland simple literature, bc stormlight are big the average american who lacks reading comprehension, feels really good about themself for finishing it and understanding it. Im from scandinavia, and my circle of friends read alot of fantasy, and no one i know liked stormlight or mistborn. Bookstores here are filled with them because they dont really sell. A book store in the city center said they had to send back a bunch to publisher. And i think maybe the reason for that is, if youre the target demographic of the books here in scandinavia, your english is probably too poor for you to bother reading a big book in english. And if your skills are good enough to tackle it, you would probably find it stupid, tacky and juvenile. Rant over. Probably wrong channel to rant on. But tbh i hoped you actually would take a deep dive in why people dont like him and see actual criticism, not just stuff you find on reddit posts.
Sanderson- to me- feels like an author carefully curated to appeal to a mass of readers. I often found myself slightly disappointed in the depth of his ideas and character building, but I think his passion for world building is evident in all of his stories. He is an entertaining author, though perhaps not as eloquent as his community would lead you to believe.
the Sanderstans will always, blindly defend him. The issue is not that his writing style is simple. There are plenty of competent and amazing writers that write in a "simple" manner. The problem that he writes as if his readers are a bunch of idiots. He has no sense of nuance or subtlety, he over-explains everything, and nothing is left to the imagination. He beats you over the head by repeating the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. His books read as if they're written by a machine, guiding you to feel a one, specific way and reach only one, single conclusion. His characters have no depth, they don't grow, and the dialogue is amateurish. He is a YA author that churns out robotic, formulaic books, while being allowed to advertise himself as a serious, adult fantasy-writing god.
people mistake the notion of wanting to read good prose for meaning "flowery prose". a well written book is actually not flowery, but features a sort of simplistic beauty that unfolds cinematically. like when you read the first few pages of a haruki murakami or percival everette novel. Compare the intensity, the minimalist immersion at the beginning of "Fledgling" by Octavia Butler with the silly-goose stumbling, uneveness of Sanderson's "Skyward", we meet two women characters and right away we feel more connected to Butler's charcter than Sanderson's because we actually FEEL-- shock, terror, stakes. Sanderson on the other hand just kind of tells us there are stakes without us actually feeling them. And Butler does it without using nary an SAT word. i say all that to say-- it's not necessarily dense poetry that people are looking for, just well constructed sentences that don't feel spoonfed, that feel like they are immersing us instead of just telling us what's happening.
@@versuch8239 exactly. I'm reading Hemingway right now, and he's very simple. Very straightforward. Yet still above and beyond anything Sanderson puts out.
When it comes to the kickstarter something that has to be remembered is that he did not think it would make 40 million dollars and so the reason he made it seem like these books would not be available after the kickstarter is because he did not think enough people would want them in order to print more. Just a thought I had about that.
Just because Sanderson intentionally writes with simple and accessible prose doesn't mean people can't point to it as a reason they don't like Sanderson. Can people never say they don't like something just because it's intentional?? It may simply not align with some people's taste, and it's okay to give that as a reason regardless of intentionality on the side of the writer. It just means it they aren't the audience it is written for. Pulling out new, never explored magic when a problem arises in a story is a problem with the writing and lack of foreshadowing, not a problem with soft magic. Honestly I find the ending of the first Mistborn book to be a dues ex machina. It's definitely possible to do this with hard magic and with soft magic. It's not a matter of magic systems employed, but a matter of writing
I think his point wasn't that people aren't allowed to like his writing style, but rather that you shouldn't say that he's a bad writer because he chooses to be more straight-forward with his prose. I think Sanderson said that he tried a more flowery prose with couple of the Secret Projects, so I guess we'll have to wait and see whether he's able to pull that off.
@@Colaman112 it would be nice if it was stated like that in the video. It came off very, people who don't like Sanderson's prose are wrong. He literally said that not liking Sanderson because of prose is invalid and you can't criticize it because it's intentional Personally, I don't have a problem with Sanderson's prose, but I understand why some people might
Sometimes I wonder how “intentional” it really is, and rather it’s just how Brandon’s psychology works and he’s not capable of a different style. He says he wakes up everyday feeling the same so he doesn’t seem to experience emotions like most people, plus he has the mind and background of an accountant and an engineer writing fantasy stories. Things have to make sense in a logistical way in his brain and it comes across that way with his prose and magic systems. Not saying it’s a bad thing, people can love that style approach, but it’s not legendary literature like some fans make it out to be. When it works, it works well and it’s unique from other fantasy, but I feel like his character depth is lacking because of this same approach and just due to the way his psychology works. His characters feel more like dictionary “by the book” sorts. And then it’s like people are saying Taco Bell is the best authentic Mexican food in the world. His characters taste like a good night out to Taco Bell, but I don’t experience the rich flavors of authentic Mexican food with them if that makes sense lol
One thing I love about the hard magic systems is that it gives you an opportunity to go hunting for clues when things are outside the ordinary. How did they do that with the rules I currently know? How many rules are still missing? Does this fit one of them? How does it work with the other rules I know? I found this super entertaining throughout Mistborn. Sanderson is really good about subtly pointing out when hard magic is being used. You can totally miss it, but finding those nuggets can be so exciting to unpack and unravel, almost like the book has a hidden puzzle within it that you get to solve. It's one of the things I've really grown to love about his work.
I have read Mistborn. All of the Stormlight Archives. And some of his other books of the cosmere. I didn’t enjoy either of these hahaha. I get why people like him but I really tried to like him. I just feel his writing is not for me.
If you wouldn’t had liked them, you would had stopped reading them. I too got tired after read 11 books of Margaret Weiss and decided they were mediocre, but at first i liked them.
Surprised that you didn't mention his homophobic comments in the past. I've seen a lot of people who dislike Sanderson mention his comments being the reason they dislike him.
@@choco1199 you are right for sure, but he hasn't made any statements regarding changed ideas. I'm not making a judgement on him, I'm just surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video when it's definitely a reason that some people dislike him
There are asexual characters in his books and he did have people help him with the representation so there is queer rep in his stories. I really appreciate that since Ace rep is so hard to find even in this day and age. Maybe he hasn't explicitly come out and said his views have changed but his writing these types of character, with help from beta readers, shows he has evolved, at least a bit.
The problem I have with his clear glass approach is that literature is by definition about words. If you obscure the words, and don’t really care about the language being used, why are you writing a book and not a screenplay? Sanderson also has a writing style, because of his simplicity, which creates a lot of bloat, and his word choice is a part of it. If you can use a longer word to describe something which otherwise would need multiple words which altogether fill a higher amount of space, or an entire sentence, it is not a bad thing. For example the word “obtuse”, meaning *slow and difficult to understand*. There are also many words that are not particularly plain which make sentences more dramatic. “Disembowel” versus “eviscerate”, “cut”, versus “lacerate”, etc. If I wanted to describe a dark cult being happy about their ritual coming to fruition, “overjoyed” would be too common and less dramatic, whereas “enraptured” would make the sentence have more weight. He also isn’t as clean as Abercrombie, despite both being workmanlike, because his sentences have more weight behind them because of how he uses words, and he really puts effort into his character voice. I could read the same paragraph in different POVs and understand who I’m following without being told.
Sanderson has admitted to writing in the “marvel movie” since rather than writing the next “Lord of the Rings.” As a child, he wasn’t a huge book fan, neither was I with the exception of graphic novels and manga. That’s what people like about him: He writes with a screenplay in the back of his mind. I honestly don’t think his writing needs to be more complex, especially since it’s easier for people (especially people with learning disabilities or autism) to understand his work more clearly. With that being said, this is the reason why I DNF’d Mistborn: The Final Empire half way through and started Way of Kings (don’t worry, I’m coming back) because it was dumbed down to the max combined with the confines of the genre AND his prose style. I actually think his prose style works better in Adult sci-fantasy.
@@edgytypebeat781 I’m not saying that his writing needs to necessarily be “complex”. Let alone difficult to understand. Joe Abercrombie doesn’t write very complex prose, and yet is vastly better. You can also use more dramatic words that most people don’t know if you put it in the right context. Nobody is going to assume “the monster eviscerated the man”, to mean that he was hugged. I also firmly disagree with your assumption about people with autism; I am autistic, and English is my second language. I can read books from two hundred years ago just fine (I particularly like *Wuthering Heights*).
Sanderson himself admits his writing is "transparent". Meaning, his intentions are purely about immersing the reader into the world making them experience the story. If someone's not as good of a wordsmith, as they're a storyteller, I don't think they should change their entire style at the cost of sacrificing what makes their writing what it is. Saying that he might as well write a screenplay if he doesn't put that much effort in the prose literally ignores what makes books different from screenplays--the experience of having a story play in your mind, instead of movies and other such stuff which are visual mediums. I'm reading Stormlight Archive for the first time and since these are thick books, I read many other things alongside them. And, I clearly see what Brandon hopes to accomplish with his writing--an immersive emotional experience of a story, as opposed to an extremely polished piece of literary value, if that makes sense. I don't think it's a problem. Like, a casual reader wouldn't even care about such a thing imo, and because he's so accessible in a reading difficulty level sense, they'd be able to enjoy it.
@@krishbohra5536 I know what Sanderson said. I’m critiquing him based on that. I don’t find his work immersive precisely because everything is written as if it is mundane. There is no gravitas. I know that. Giving the reader a detailed image in their Mind’s Eye is *part* of what makes Literature what it is, but the writing/prose is what is supposed to evoke those details. That’s what makes it different from an audio drama. Literature *is* the writing. Even if your Mind’s Eye is weak (like mine), the book should still flow nicely. Each line should be punchy, snappy. Sanderson doesn’t do any of this. It’s dry, with the taste of unflavored oatmeal. It’s not bad, but he’s not taking full advantage of the medium like a game such as *Spec Ops: The Line* does. You might as well argue that good controls in a video game, a great variance of shot compositions in movies and tv shows, and audio quality and mixing in music aren’t nearly as important. They are. All great literature has an immersive emotional experience. Having no literary value as a writer is terrible. It’s completely counterintuitive to what you’re trying to be. Imagine a painter that doesn’t have any artistic value. It’s absurd. And I, as a rather casual reader, do find prose important. Language is important. People are becoming less well read, more illiterate, and their vocabulary is diminishing. I find that a terrible thing. Language is the communication of ideas, and the more ways that we can express them, the better.
I agree with the abercrombie bit, but that is it. It annoys me when writers try to add "weight" to their sentences too often. Comes across as pretentious and trying hard to sound smart/flowery. If they do it mostly in certain areas like abercrombie during berserk scenes or how rothfus will sporadically, I do enjoy it.
I like Sanderson. I'm not a fan of his works so far. Elantris is the only one I've finished and only as an audiobook. I couldn't read it. It was too monotonous and boring. Audiobook was aiiight. But the story itself was underwhelming. I will try another one of his books, but so far I think that his style is bland and his story structure is uneven, it takes forever to catch a momentum and once it does it feels rushed with info dumping.
Dude, stop trying. It doesn't get any better, the guy is just a terrible writer that got popular for some, bewildering, reason. And now people are just afraid to admit how awful his books are.
I hold a high degree in writing, have been a journalist for 10 years, and an author for longer. I want to refute some of your points. 1) Claiming you are intentionally writing poorly does not make it okay to do so. It's not just a style of prose. It's just bad. I've read elementary school level books with even simpler word choice, they still were able to have a wide variety of descriptors, word choice, and to evoke strong imagery though well crafted prose - and most importantly - were able to convey a deeper meaning, a message, through the words and narrative. Quality writing does not = more complex. Hell, journalism itself is an example. The entire point is to be very simple, concise, and for general readers. It's hard to write that way. Harder usually than being wordy. Sanderson has a very simply style that often gets muddy, is skin deep, and lacks any kind of literary merit on this one point alone. Especially for a genre which has typically relied on strong prose, this is an issue. That said, taking my scholar hat off, I actually do think there is a valid argument for pure enjoyment factor. People seem to enjoy it. I've enjoyed it on occasion. One need not be a James Joyce to be a successful entertainer. I simply do not think he is a good writer. He's an entertainer. Just like how a soap opera TV star may be very entertaining to watch, they may be a great actor, but they're not the same as a Broadway play actor. They're different beasts. 2) Writing cinematically is fine. I do so. The real issue, and what people actually mean when they say this complaint, is that Sanderson is specifically writing in a pandering style. His characters almost always do exactly what you would expect them to do, the beats fall specifically where you would think they would, and climaxes follow the path that has least resistance. In short, he's writing to entertain, not to connect. Most big names in epic fantasy write to explore themselves, the world, and to, yes, entertain, but often just as importantly examine some important aspect of being. On it's simplest term, they write to convey. This means that characters do not always do what is best for pure hype and dramatic timing. They stumble when you may personally feel a climactic win is needed. They say or do things which make you dislike them even. Sanderson's do not. A good example of this is Donaldson's Covenant series. The main character is objectively unlikeable. He is a Leaper, mean, angry, a rapist, self-absorbed, and yet, you empathize with him. You can understand his reasoning. You can feel his pain. And while it does not excuse his behavior, you can see the reasoning. You can imagine how you could be similar in such a situation. Sanderson would never even attempt such depth, as he is on a rail for maximum and widest appeal. That's the end goal for Sanderson. That alone. And that's a problem for quality writing. 3) Yeah, he's Mormon. Most Mormon writers do this. Not that big a deal. A bit boring, but it's fine. I'm fine with grander than life characters, icons really. Harkens back to old Chaucer-style tales of single minded protagonists and antagonists. 4) Again, fine. Not all books need sex. If you want to do romance you may want to allude to something, but you really don't need to get explicate. 5) Hard magic systems are fine. Generally I prefer it, as long as it's complex and has room for growth. My only counter is that it is a failing of the author if you do not understand all the rules. By it's nature, you are supposed to know them all in such a system. If you don't, the author messed up in how they introduced them, or they made them too unwieldly. 6) The popular argument has more validity than you would expect. For many, myself included, it's not that he is popular, it's that his brand is taking over the entire genre. It is starting to edge out deeper prose style novels, and it is being considered more and more the definitive fantasy. It's kind of like how the MCU has replaced basically all fantasy and most SF in film. Yeah, I like a good turn my brain off superhero movie, but I still want that deep and epic SF or fantasy that changes my views or makes me reconsider some aspect of life. But, they're the most popular, so that's mostly all we get. Same issue here. End of the line, my feelings are that it is a bit of a shame that someone who is mostly just focused on pure quantity over quality, and pandering, has taken the stop stop, and for many is considered the definition of epic fantasy. Not enough of a gripe to count anything against him. But I also think it's a valid sentiment to have. 7) It is formulaic. That's okay, usually. But is shows a lack of ability to improvise. 8) The Kickstarter was horrible for the industry. I'm in publishing and this was nothing but bad for books, writing, and publishing. It's the introduction of lootboxes to books. The cost was practically criminal, and this was a very bad faith move. Were this for charity, I'd probably be fine with it. But as a pure profit move, I found it in horrible form, it hurt the industry, and it showed that he is anti-consumer. Your write a book. You sell it. The customer can see what it is, pay a fair price, and get what they paid for. You don't hide your product and charge drastically higher than standard to make a quick buck. It's lowbrow, and it shows a certain lack of character. Bad for the industry, bad for the consumer, just bad. It also preys on well known psychology and manipulative tactics. He knew that. He did it anyway. Everything else he's done makes me feel like he is a bad writer, good entertainer, but has avoided discussing his character. This move showed me he is not a very good person. Which is fine, but it's there. End of the line, if you've read this far, Sanderson is popcorn entertainment. I love popcorn. I love being entertained. He's not a great writing though. He explores nothing. He reveals nothing. He adds nothing. But, if you like him then by all means, keep on keeping on. I simply say that those who dislike him for these reasons have valid cause. And please don't support manipulative business practices. It's bad for everyone.
I don't entirely understand your point regarding the Kickstarter hurting the industry, would you care to elaborate? I would posit that he did not "drastically overcharge" for the Kickstarter. Basically, each book box cost $50, and each box included a high-quality hardcover book with gorgeous art included, a nice bookmark featuring that art and an enamel pin. Also, the fact that he didn't tell people about the books ahead of time just added to the excitement for his fans, and clearly it worked given how successful it was. Also to be clear I'm trying to be combative at all, I'm just curious about your take.
@@yremogtnomnad From a business and publisher standpoint, it's the lootboxification of books. Anytime you have a product being sold on a "Trust me, it's good" premise, that's a problem. This mentality hurts the industry as a whole, due in part to how successful it is, making it more likely to be used more often. When I say it hurts the industry, I'm not talking about the big houses or the big names. They will make out like bandits due to this behavior. It's the smaller publishers and names that will suffer as their books end up sidelined in favor of big-dollar book boxes. But mostly it will hurt readers. We see this time and time again in virtually every industry someone attempts this in. It's how you go from single high-quality works that come with reviews and the ability to browse before you buy to higher-priced mystery works that feed on FOMO psychology to lock customers into purchasing a product before it's even complete. It took gamers almost a decade to see how it ruined the industry and still is hurting games today. Beyond that though, it's also just plain unethical. Mystery boxes, especially when they are time-limited, prey on known psychological tricks to get customers to buy without actually knowing if it's something they want. It preys on people with a lower ability to manage those triggers: such as children, with OCD, or who have other similar addictions. This is a known fact. Many studies have found this type of behavior to be predatory, enough so that a fair number of nations now outright ban this type of practice. I don't recall the exact information now since it's been a while, but at the time I went through the value of the items in the box and I also found that he was drastically uncharging the value of the items and for the book. End of the line, it's practices like this that inflate prices, decrease quality, and overall hurt consumers. The only cases of such behavior in books I've seen that were similar were for Charity, and then it is generally more acceptable since at least it's for a good cause, not profit-motivated. Practices like this should not be supported and those who try to cash in on them should be called out. It's anti-consumer.
thank you for writing this tome of a comment. it genuinely saves me the time to express incredibly similar views. tbh, i think you weren't as harsh as you should've been but overall, great discussion.
I feel a need to leave a disclaimer after liking this, given how strongly I disagree with your conclusions. Despite that, the comment still deserves to be at the top of the page. The hyperbolic question posed by the title is answered better by this comment than the video itself. And as others have pointed out, the structure and writing style fits the medium well. I just hope the readability index comes from the journalistic experience you mentioned, and isn't subtle burn towards Sanderson fans. Jokes aside, it definitely does make a long RUclips comment more approachable. I agree with you on many of the individual points, but then you take these leaps that I can't follow. Sanderson does have some glaring weaknesses as an author, but in my opinion they are offset by his strengths. He might not be any good at writing prose, but he is great at crafting epic narratives, seamlessly weaving countless plot lines into a single cohesive story. This is the opposite of someone like Rothfuss, who is a master of prose, but the plot is fragmented and feels quite episodic. His characters only seem to capture a small part of the human condition, but some of that it captures well. The worldbuilding is where he really shines, which to me is one of the most important aspects of fantasy. I can't follow you on the "popcorn entertainment" idea at all. It could be Stockholm Syndrome after all these pages, perhaps it's the mirror that his characters hold up to my own existential dread, but he certainly managed to capture me with his ideas and his world like few other authors. I give up, I can't coherently express my thoughts.
One reason I dislike Sanderson, is that I find his views on religion in the books too simplistic, and for lack of a better word, ignorant. It is very emblematic of someone who's grown up in the Christian faith in the US. And usually that wouldn't be a problem. However, when one is writing a character like Sazed, who's supposedly studied over 300 religions, you need to allow for more complexity than that. There's one line in particular in the Hero of Ages, where Sazed thinks that "Each religion described itself as being the truth, and others as false" (or something like that). This is patently false in the real world when you consider Eastern religions like Hinduism or Buddhism, some pagan faiths, as well as some African religions. And some of these are among the largest religions in the world. Look around, mate! All that said, I do enjoy his writing for the most part.
Let me say I don't hate sanderson far from it I really like the guy and I like what he does, but I think where the problem is, his fans seem unable to take criticism of his work ( ik it's gonna hurt when your favorite thing gets criticized) my all time favorite author is murakami and despite that I have my own criticism of his works and I don't even like all the books the man writes, but from the few stories I've read I adore his stories. Also one major things that can affect the readers experience and that is taste, but I see that problem with many fans even outside the fantasy/book community. I've been told many times how awsome certain mangas are but for the love of God I can't get into it, and when I do it's like I force myself. The things you mentioned in this video most of them weren't even an issue for me (especially the kikstarter idek what that is lol) and the writing and stuff were things I was ready to ignore for the sake of that small hope that I'd love his works as much as the fans did, alas that didn't happen which makes me sad cuz now I can't get into one of the epic and most discussed fantasy story. I think on your point of 'adult fun' for me the book read more like a YA rather than an adult novel and that's not bc of the 'adult fun' part but just the way the story was written. One last thing that really irritated me was the structure of the book, it felt like a chours to get through.
I feel the same way. The fans take any criticism personally, and most booktubers follow the trend without giving any real criticisms, and if they do they seem really “safe” like they’re afraid to wake the Sanderson mob
I recently finished the Mistborn trilogy and felt so dissapointed, I found the inner dialogues to be so repetitive and boring, Vin had the same "I can be an assassin and wear dresses too" dialogue going on for pages in all three books, same with Sazed in The Hero of Ages , he kept rumbling on if there was any truth in the religions he knew and a "purpose" but in a really shallow way. Also I found the way he wrote the skaa to be so problematic, like they just didn't know what to do with their freedom, they needed an autorative figure to not be incompetent, (the same arguments slavers had in real life), we never really got to know the skaa in depth, almost all characters are noble or mixed, he was constantly trying us to feel pity for the noble and kinda did an apology of the Lord Ruler in the third book (?), and kept portraying Yomen as a good ruler when he literally kept slavery and unpunished rape of women on his kingdom. This was kinda brainstorming but i just don't feel I can trust this author anymore
Ehhh I disagree. The constant struggle of Vin to know her place in the world in my opinion made me empathize with her as a character, Sazed had his faith questioned which is often a struggle among us a humans, what we do and why it’s important..if it is even important at all. The third complaint I don’t agree with because it explains pretty well how the Lord ruler tried his best but was corrupted by ruin, leading to much of the brutality of the world we find ourselves in. As for complaints about the skaa not being able to lead themselves I also tend to disagree, simply because I think Sanderson accurately portrayed how subjected humans react to sudden freedom. It’s human nature, Stockholm syndrome is a thing for a reason, it can’t be used as an excuse to continue slavery, but it is a legitimate concern, similar to how you don’t give a starving man a full course meal immediately, or try to get a child to run a marathon before he learns to walk.
😘 Loved the “adult fun” description! That made laugh 😆 And that aspect is not something I want to read in my books either, so I regularly skim over those bits when I encounter it. I own almost all of Branderson’s books - in gorgeous Gollancz white 😍 - but recently found myself not recommending them to somebody because I feared they were maybe too YA or too ‘simple’ for his tastes. So I seem to think they lean that way, but they work as gateway books as you suggested here. I wasn’t interested in the KS - full releases later seemed highly likely to me, and I’m generally a plain, mass market paperback boy - but I think some folks were particularly unhappy at the hint of an actual serious problem in the run-up to the announcement, based upon how it all came out initially.
Don't like all these click bate videos, I mean it's almost every video now 😔 Brandon Sanderson is the best selling Fantasy writer of the modern era, no one is saying this!
I am a big fan of Brandon Sanderson the podcaster, the person, the teacher, and the worker. I'll say up front that I AM impressed with his work ethic. However, I feel strongly, maybe too strongly, about the quality of his writing. His fans frustrate me because I feel that they muddy the waters for other people like me getting into fantasy. I read a little bit of a lot of different genres. I never really read fantasy, but I read a fantasy series that clicked with me on every level and I thought "wow, I have a whole genre to dig into now. What should I read next?!" Then, I kept seeing nothing but 6/5 star reviews for all of his books and every booktuber seemed to worship him as a modern day master of the genre. I had enjoyed his podcasts and lectures about writing, so I got very excited to try Way of Kings. The first thing that jumped out at me was the prose. It felt colorless to a point that my initial hype plummeted in pages. I am not a hyper critical reader, either. I read and enjoy books on kindle that are by newer authors who have a lot of room for growth, and I can really enjoy their stories even if there are errors and mistakes. I have read an author and literally was able to chart his growth from one book to the next and it felt very satisfying. I read one of his early books and enjoyed it, but noticed some issues here and there, then I read another book he wrote years after that and there was a night and day difference. He had improved dramatically. Sanderson shocked me once with something he said. When asked what he liked to read, he responded that he doesn't have time to read, because he's too busy writing. To me, reading is maybe 50% or more of how to write well. I think writers SHOULD read a lot to learn what works and what doesn't. When I read Way of Kings, his lack of reading was apparent. To me, Way of Kings seemed like a zero draft. It felt that it was something that he needed to just get all his ideas on the page, and several rewrites later it would be about 600 pages shorter. It felt stale and painfully repetitive. This would not be so irritating to me if his books averaged 3 out of 5 stars or so and if people held him to the same standard as other writers. For me, Way of Kings was a 1/5 stars, but I'd be fine with 3/5. The fact that he has 5 stars across the board and you have to dig to find anything but shining praise about his work confuses me. One thing that drives me crazy with his readers is that I see a lot of them defending poor quality writing by doing the "that's SUPPOSED to be like that. You just aren't clever enough to grasp it," angle. For instance, when he has repetitive passages going over the same internal monologues over and over and over again his fans might say, "well, the character has depression. It's supposed to feel boring, whiny, repetitive, and annoying. You must not understand mental health issues." If that was intentional, then it was a mistake on his part. If you're making a commercial entertainment product that you intend for the masses to consume as a way to pass time, the very last thing you should do is to intentionally make them feel bored and frustrated that they're wasting their time. Maybe this is not being very charitable, but I think his books sell so well with certain demographics that he's allowed to get away with a lot of mistakes and then his fans will claim they were intentional and that people who have legitimate criticism of his work are 'haters.' Or booktubers will, as a joke, cherry pick 1 star reviews that say things like "Sanderson sucks ass," and insinuate that any bad reviews he gets are illegitimate. Another thing they sometimes do is signal to what a nice and friendly guy he is, as if to shame people away from criticizing his writing as if he needs to be sheltered from constructive criticism. I also find his characters very 1 dimensional and stale. They are like Mary Sues. They will have a character that is constantly sad because he raced into a burning building 10 years ago to save 100 orphan kids, but he can't forgive himself because he didn't have time to go back in and rescue one of their goldfish before the building collapsed. After hundreds of pages of this, it pisses me off and I begin to root against the character. It's filler, and like I said before, that's what revisions SHOULD be for. That's what reading a lot would help him with. I think a lot of his fans enable him to not actually improve his writing and he's mega influential with young people who also want to become writers, so they will learn the worst possible habit of a budding writer: to deflect constructive criticism and revisionist history your own intent behind your writing. Teaching them to be like, "No, Sanderson does that but it's part of his style and he gets nothing but 5 star reviews except for trolls." It's also going to deter readers who have a bias already against fantasy, to think, "this is the master of this genre? I'll go back to my other genres, then." I know I've already written an essay, but I could go on for days about how I feel about his writing. I'll just stop. And if you made it all the way to the bottom of this tirade, thanks for letting me waste your time. I felt like getting this off my chest. I don't ever write reviews or anything of books, but this one just made me want to for whatever reason.
Yes, in some genres the ratIngs can't be trusted. Glad to find someone that agrees That Way of Kings isn't a top tier book... With all the praise for it I was starting to think I was crazy...
Agreed. Those are all bad reasons to cast shade on Sanderson. Here are my main objections though after listening once through the audio books for most of his novels. 1. In The Lost Metal (Mistborn 7), Sanderson throws in a homosexual side character and indicates both Wayne and the society endorse such a lifestyle. He doesn't even suggest there's any moral issue there. 2. Many of the themes in Sanderson's books and Investiture in particular reduce to meta-references to the writing process itself. Thus, instead of escapism, and exploring into deep truths of life itself through the fiction, I find myself reading about reading. Too much to cover here. 3. In The Empiror's Soul, Sanderson solidifies what he hints at with Shallan: the Mary-Sue protagonist actually creates a freaking fake human soul better than the real one. That is absurd and harmful violates some basic moral principle. She's also a Mary-Sue. 4. Overall, something about his writing style makes the world building--which he admits is a hollow iceberg--feel transparently so. I don't believe Carbronth is what he wants us to feel it is. I don't believe you could carve out a seal that specific in some rock, whatever the heck kind of marks she was chiseling in there I don't even know. It feels too hollow.
Personally, I find his prose very bland, his character arcs predictable, his formulaic writing (the abhorrent "Sanderlanche") grating and predictable, and the actual content of his books half baked. On top of that, I find his cult fandom insufferable. They just can't seem to accept that he isn't the first and last word in epic fantasy, that his work isn't so complex readers give up because "they don't get it", his ideas aren't fresh or innovative, and that it's fine to just agree to disagree. I'm glad Sanderson is for many readers what Robin Hobb, Tad Williams, Dennis L McKiernan and Robert Jordan are for me, but the ridiculous overexposure of this man is grating. It would be fine if the fans and booktubers could just relax hyping him at every opportunity for five minutes. Is he a terrible writer? Clearly his work is phenomenal to a lot of readers. But for me, it's not anything special. And I say that with respect to all who are openly massive fans who can accept I simply don't like him
I think it might just be overhype. In the fantasy community, hes kind of seem as the top author. And if you go into a book knowing how beloved an authors books are and you just cant get with them, it can get a bit annoying constantly hear people hyping him up.
I think you friends arguments about the Kickstarter were pretty weak tbh. You could just get the digital versions and not worry about shipping. He did say that the books would end up being published for the public, but the premium hardcovers may not be. Finally, he did streams on his RUclips channel outlining each secret project
Personally I think many of these criticisms are strengths to Sanderson’s works. I love the prose. I don’t need to be in the bedroom or wherever else with them for the “adult fun”. The magic system is phenomenal and incredibly well thought out. I appreciate that he’s not a hermit and responds to questions and talks about the cosmere with people who love spending time in his universe. Although I love the cosmere, I never totally understood the kickstarter thing. So those books WON’T be published more broadly? Only to kickstart supporters?
Brandon has stated that he intends to get them out to people eventually, likely in e-book formats relatively soon after the end of the year and printings a while later. He hasn't given any details but if you go and watch any Q&As around the time of the launch he was very open that this was not an exclusive thing.
I’m pretty sure he’s said that the kickstarter books will be available almost immediately in all formats as soon as all backers have received their physical copies.
Adult fun in fantasy was never a thing for me. It has no place in there. It doesn't add to the story. The Cosmere is full of morally grey characters. Rashek for example appears evil on the surface yet he did all he could to save the world. I like his style. And he does finish what he starts unlike G.R.R. Martin and Patrick Rothfuss.
*His prose is intentionally simple, therefore you can’t criticize it for being simple*. Um no? Listen I love Sanderson, he’s in my top 5 favorite authors, but when you’re literally a *writer* having simple prose is a drawback and it’s ok to acknowledge that and not liking his books because of that is 100% valid. This video as a whole has a strong “I’m right, you’re wrong” vibe.
The problem I have with his clear glass approach is that literature is by definition about words. I don’t see how nice writing is supposed to be a drawback, according to Sanderson.
@@theatheistbear3117 it’s like if a movie had bad cinematography on purpose. I’m not saying you can’t do interesting things with the concept but it’s not like you can just apply that to a normal movie and expect no one to notice. Same with books, if the plain prose serves a narrative purpose I can buy it but just saying “it makes it easier to read” doesn’t do it. I mean i’ve never read a book that’s been hurt by having good prose and good prose by definition should be able to easily get the point across and it doesn’t need to be barebones and repetitive to do so.
@@lkay398 Writing is not all subjective. Spending three pages on setting the scene, and rambling, is not nice writing. You need to be concise without being boring. Even by workmanlike prose standards Sanderson is just incredibly dry.
@@theatheistbear3117 How is writing not subjective lol. There is no writing in the world that MUST be accepted as 100% or 100% bad. Everybody is gonna have a preference...
I love Brandon Sandeson but there are two things I am starting to hate. The first is the amount of drama. Stormlight archieves suffers from this. There is to much focus on the characters and not enough on the plot. It makes the story slow and at times tedious (at least for me) My second problem is that the world ALWAYS has to be in danger. It gets in the way of many other good stories. I would have loved to see the first mistborn trilogy be about building a kingdom and handling enemies rather than a world end scenario. But these things are very subjective. I prefer stories that are plot driven rather than character driven (like LotR). Still love Sanderson though :D
I agree with you. I love Sanderson's writing style, and the fact that he keeps love scenes private. I thought that it was great that he wants something apart from sex as a way to bond two characters. He understands how important the concept of need is.
I forgot to add that I enjoy how organized his stories are. Also, all of his magic systems are unique, and which means that when I listen to one of his books, I will always learn something new.
I certainly don't hate the man, but a number of years back I started reading The Way of Kings because I knew there were only two books in the Stormlight Archive series and I thought it would be interesting to get in close to the ground floor, and then follow the series to the end of the planned 10 books. Well, I just wasn't very into the characters or story and bailed after a few hundred pages. Plus, I am a slow reader and his books are just too long.
I dont hate sanderson. Hell, i LOVE the Mistborn books! And his "basic" writing style is like comfort food for me. Cant get enough. No, my ONLY beef with Sanderson is him absolutely SCREWING UP THE WHEEL OF TIME!!!😂 (for real though, he really did wreck the whole thing)
I've only read the mistborn trilogy. I disliked it as it seemed simplistic, the characters were stock, and there was too much Mormon influence. It didn't appeal to me.
So it just comes down to personal taste? I mean, I don't like Charles Dickens or Gaston Leroux because I find their writing style to be overly pretentious, in my opinion, but it's not my taste in fiction so I won't go on a holy war to make a case that they're the worse. They're great authors for a reason because so many people do enjoy their writing, but I'm just not one of them. Same with Brandon Sanderson, I just started Mistborn (really what you considered as the Cosmere in general) and I really love it, including its magic system. I'm actually surprised a lot of people don't like Sanderson, but hey, not every fantasy has to be nuanced or "dark." Much like not every fantasy has to have a deus ex machina as its magic system.
The cinematic imagery is my biggest critique of Sanderson's work. I don't find it fun or engaging because I'm not interested in reading a movie, and if I was there are plenty of novelizations of movies that exist. It's distracting, annoying, and unnecessary. With that being said, when I was getting back into reading some years ago Mistborn was one of the first series I got my hands on and has swiftly become of one my favorites (currently in the process of finishing Era 2 after putting it off for so long). While I'll admit that Sanderson is no Tolkien, he makes the genre incredibly accessible and creates enough layers that make you want to pick up the series a second time to see things fall into place.
My problem with his writing is that he can be redundant about things that are not important to the plot. I don’t mind easy and accessible, it’s that like 3-4% of his writing where he is redundant or he tells, then tells, then shows. In that order. But again that’s within the 3-4%. The rest of his writing is fine. I Elantris and the amount of times he talked about the main girl’s height was ridiculous. I get it when she’s first introduced to the reader then to the other characters. But it was overkill and it made me very upset. Other than that and how tell tell show that happend a couple times I really enjoyed the book. I mean I sat there and read it for hours and hours wanting to see how it ended. Although I wasn’t surprised I still enjoyed watching it come all together. Despiste my disdain for that 3-4% I will continue reading his stories and hope that he improves over the years.
I have the original Mistborn trilogy and the Stormlight Archives on the tbr but am hesitant/in no rush to read them. I feel book tubers in general just gush over his stuff, gives off weird vibes ("No you don't get it Sanderson is the BEST"). And hearing his books are a lot of down the middle prose with down the middle characterization just doesn't really excite me as a reader. Based on no actual facts on my end but is it the plot and the world that appeals to people? I feel I want to check out some newer series rather than dedicate myself to 4 series by Sanderson that are at least 5 books each.
I'm not a hardcore fan of Sanderson, but it seems that a lot of people really like his magic systems and worldbuilding, which are cool. And the fact that the Cosmere has an over-arching story with recurring characters that are hidden throughout the different series, which makes the books very re-readable if you want to search for these crossovers. As to his characters, I've heard people call them really deep, but personally, while I wouldn't call any I've read so far flat, some are better written than others. In Warbreaker, for example, I adored one of the main characters, was dissapointed that the second main character never had the internal struggle Brandon seemed to be setting up (a reveal half-way kind of helped, but didn't fully work, for me; it was especially dissapointing since I liked the character and was excited for where I thought Brandon had hinted he was taking her), and the third was compelling in the beginning but got a little hard for me to believe in; again, some shifts in the middle made her a little better. And I personally find his prose hard to read; simple can be fine, but Brandon tends to repeat words and not reach far with his descriptions. If you're a seasoned fantasy reader, I'd try Way of Kings first because its both a later book with (for me) more readable prose and it shows you the world more than telling you about it like some of his earlier books. Disclaimer: I've only read Warbreaker and started Way of Kings.
@@StarlitSeafoamI sort of agree. Tbh the original mistborn characters I think are the best, most developing and are the dearest to me. Even the secondary characters
How could anyone hate hard magic? That's the best part about newer fantasy. The number of times I've rolled my eyes because a protagonist suddenly discovered or casually pulled out a "get out of jail free" card puts me off of a lot of classic fantasy. In fact, I'm reading Malazan now and it's full of these scenarios. I also don't know why anyone would have thought the kickstarter books wouldn't be released later. I just assumed you'd get them cheaper if you pledged, which is generally how kickstarters work. You get a deal for being in on the kickstarter, but if the goal is matched, and the product is made, it goes to market. That's the whole idea. He also discussed how he felt uncomfortable using the kickstart platform because he didn't feel it was meant for things like that. Haters gonna hate.
First, I think you're conflating disliking or simply not loving Sanderson's writing with "hating" either the writing or the author. That's the worst sort of false dichotomy. Now, to address specific points: 1) The fact that an author does what he is intending to do has nothing to do with whether it's reasonable to dislike that thing. Leaving aside the most inflammatory examples, look at James Joyce. It's completely reasonable to dislike Ulysses because of the way it is written even though Joyce clearly intended to do exactly what he did. As it happens, I prefer invisible writing, but that doesn't mean that criticizing writing for being invisible is invalid. 2) Much the same applies to your next several points. If you don't like those elements of Sanderson's writing, that's not somehow a flaw in you. Taste is taste, and it varies. Suffice to say that for me, I mostly don't care about any of those things: Cinematic writing is fine when it's done well, I like my protagonists to be heroes (even when flawed), I don't have a problem with either explicit sexual content or its lack. 3) Sanderson does hard-ish magic, but he was not the first, nor does he do it particularly better than others (see Lyndon Hardy or Randall Garrett for earlier hard magic systems that I like better, for instance). In fact, I was rather annoyed by one element in Mistborn (balancing on a single point using a push, which is essentially impossible). Hard magic is great when it's done well, so is soft magic, and so is something in between. Note that Mistborn has a hard magic system, then mostly abandons it for the protagonists, who have all the powers, and oh yeah, there are all those other powers that show up when convenient. But Sanderson's ability to develop new and interesting magic systems is actively a plus. 4) Too popular? That can actually be an issue. When all the conversation revolves around a single subject (see also Cthulhu, zombies, vampires, whatever at various times), it can be tiresome. As it happens, I don't particularly care in this case, but I can see why others might. i will say that going into a read with the hype that surrounds Sanderson's books can be actively detrimental to enjoyment. If you're expecting diamond-like brilliance and you get something that is only solid fantasy, it's really easy for that disappointment to affect your opinion of the books. 5) As for the Kickstarter project, I suspect it brought in a bunch of people to that platform who weren't used to its numerous flaws. As a serial project backer who didn't back Sanderson's project, that project looked really quite well run from the outside. But disliking the experience is fair, even if it wasn't atypical for that place. I'm not a Sanderson fan, but nor am I a Sanderson hater. I've read seven (?) of his books, mostly before he was a BNA. And I haven't had a particularly good experience with any except for Skyward, which was a solid 4-star book for me. The rest have been 3-ish star reads and broadly indistinguishable from many other such reads. In a world where there is a functionally infinite variety and number of books, my problem is that I don't find his work particularly compelling. I certainly don't hate his work (though I did actively dislike Elantris), I just don't care that much. To be fair, I didn't much like his books in WoT, but that was a result of WoT being dreadful, not his work at its end. (Do I hate Jordan's work? Horrible characters in a generic world that goes on, and on, and on, and on, and.... What's not to hate?)
I haven’t even watched the rest of the video but reason 1 is the primary reason I can’t get into Sanderson. His style choice just isn’t for me. I’ve tried but it just doesn’t work for me. I’m glad others can enjoy it though. I don’t hate him but his fans also turn me off. Prose that I personally find bland and the fans I’ve come across just makes me pass on his work.
If you take an average of people who have heard his name, the ratio of Love/Hate its maybe 70/30. But if you take the people who actually read the books, I would estimate it around 90/10 Love/Hate.
Who dislikes reading heroes. I'm currently working on my fantasy novel and I love writing heros that actually match my moral standing and whom I and everyone can look up to. Imagine Aragorn for example, yes it's necessary to add internal struggle, temptations and hard choices but why does a protagonist have to be like Jaime Lannister and Idk what does people even want to read in fantasy these days why would you like to have explicit scene. What is it dark romance? I share similar values with you too on this as a Muslim this is against my moral standing but then again don't we see that kind of stuff everywhere these days anyway. Everything have become an indirect porn. So it's refreshing to see purer romances. One of many reasons why I love Tolkien is specifically these above two.
I've only read Storm Light so I know I have a scewed view of his writing. I enjoy him as a person and adore the lecture videos, but I can not stand storm light. Dreadfully boring at points, infuriating at others, and uses tropes ineffectively. There are good moments, but I just can't find any enjoyment in the overall picture being painted.
For me, the pygmy elephant in the room is George Martin. Apparently everyone still judges how fantasy should be because of him. Grey characters and a lot of "adult fun" scenes with some of the worst descriptions I've ever read. The other reason seems to be his success coupled with the fact that he is a Christian has invariably attracted this small legion of haters. I'm not a Christian, but I couldn't care less that he is one. The rest of the reasons to indicate that he is "bad" as a writer sounds like excuses.
He certainly has his own style, and that is a style that was designed to appeal to the masses. People who normally don’t read, or read often. I agree with the prose critique. I think he over explains things to the point where Reading unnecessary pages trying to figure out why he assumes I wouldn’t remember something he’s already mentioned 5 times. Also, the characters are in depth, and it is the authors job to create a relationship with the characters, but it felt more as if I was just a helpless therapist watching the characters work through the same issues to an almost exhausting point. I felt forced to watch 5 different POVs grow up. I’ve already grown up, I’d rather not witness people struggle with issues that don’t make sense to me. They didn’t feel real because of this, because any real person would have long since dealt with a lot of the issues they r go through. (Except jasnah, she is proof he is entirely capable of writing good characters, so I know it’s a choice and not a skill issue). And overall, it just felt very repressed. Every single aspect, from the violence, romance, the concept of “war” felt repressed, and juvenile. It didn’t feel real. And your argument to that May be, “it’s a book, it’s a fantasy, it’s not supposed to feel real” … Well, yes it is. The actions and behaviors of the characters, you certainly want to be real, otherwise it’s just unrelatable and annoying. Overall, he’s a great story teller, and his pacing is good, but his books can certainly be 200 pages shorter. Easily
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Do you hate Brandon Sanderson? Did you spot the mini Brandon Sanderson face in this video? 👀
8:51 tanks for making me watch the whole video again just to find a small face
8:54 👀
You mean the mini Sando head in your shoulder at 8:55?
Thanks for the video! I’m also a Christian and fairly new to fantasy. Do you have suggestions for series that are well done but aren’t plastered with “adult fun”? I’ve already read LOTR, much of the cosmere, I had a hard time getting into WOT though.
I don't, though I have disliked/been dissappo8nted by his books for some of the reasons you named. While I admire his creative mind, I'm for example of the opinion that his books are too formulaic, and that his characters fill out certain archetypes. That is an argument I think you got wrong. I doubt people criticising him for having an apprentice or a soldier or a prince in his books. It's more like "too tropy": I mean, Kaladin is the perfect hero of a modern fantasy story. Brooding, self-less, stubborn, an underdog, a leader, opposed to authorities, suffering depression (that last one feels to put on the list but let's be honest, it is a thing used to make others feel sympathy towards him). Also, for me personally, the issue I have with his prose is a bit more complicated: it simply doesn't match the story. With Mistborn, it worked because it is a bleak, gray-ish world. But with an epic, bright and vibrant world like in the Stormlight Archive, I'd expect prose that enhances and matches the world. His prose often feels like salt to me when cooking. Just seasoning a meal with salt makes it completely palatable and fine. But it lacks any flavour, any spice.
So, that from my side. As I said, I respect him as an author and his fans... though sometimes when people only talk about Sanderson it feels like other amazing authors fall short which is a little sad.
It's bizarre how he has such a hardcore fan base, but when you go outside the fantasy community, he's virtually unknown.
I mean outside the fantasy community nobody really knows anything outside of LOTR GOT and Harry Potter lol
Exactly yes
That is true. Unless you’re a big book reader of fantasy or sci-fi, you’re not gonna know who he is. But his popularity has gotten bigger since he had the most successful Kickstarter in world history.
You need an Adaptation to break out of the fantasy crowd (with a couple notable exceptions).
@@epee11c i didn't get you..
I don't really understand your point that you can't dislike Sanderson's prose, because the things people criticise it for are intentional. That doesn't make it good. If his writing style is intentional, it's still a writing style that many people don't like, and it's perfectly legitimate to not like it. I don't like super spicy food, it wouldn't make sense to tell me that I should like it because it's supposed to be that spicy.
Exactly. All writing is intentional. Doesn’t mean Fifty Shades is well written.
Sure, but there’s a difference between not liking something and it being bad
Agreed. You can be straight forward AND bad at same time. Hemingway is straight forward too. And the delta in quality between him and BS is an ocean.
Same. I'm a Sanderson fan and if he's doing it on purpose then he knows how to make it more marketable to a wider audience that some will and haven't agreed with. I'm cool with it, but being intentional doesn't mean being exempt from all criticism.
@@theatheistbear3117well said
Tbh one of the biggest reason I’m a fan of Sanderson is because of his easy to read, direct writing style. He’s one of my favorite authors for that reason. Same goes for his cinematic imagery descriptions!
Same! I cant remember the words used, the scenes are crystal clear in my head. Its like a video game even with my "imagination" (clue spongebob meme) as the ultra high def graphics card.
For me it was difficult at times because nothing essential was going on in the plot, so I dropped third book and just read the summary
Thats the reason i dislike him, he can't write prose beyond an 8th grader's intellect.
Mistborn git me through some of my roughest struggles
@@ivandankob7112yeah the third book in stormlight is when I dropped it too. I got about halfway through it but was very bored so I dropped it.
As for the last point, most people didn't NEED to know much about these books. That's the level of trust his fans have in him. That could always change, but right now, he's earned the trust.
Agreed. I've never been disappointed by anything he's put out, what are the chances there will be four flops in a row? Plus I've gone into literally every Sanderson book blind because I hate spoilers. I'm sure if he included a full plot synopsis in the KS, most people funding it wouldn't have read it anyway.
I trust Sanderson with my future reading whole heartedly. But if I remember the kickstarter correctly, I knew exactly what I was getting, they said they would probably eventually release these books in other methods it just probably wouldn’t be the special edition and you’d have to wait for a while, the only real argument here is the shipping costs it would be cool to have had a bundle option, but at the same time you have to think how much of a mess it would’ve been to produce 4 books to hold in inventory and ship at the same time but only for some customers. All in all I think it was concise, well explained, and handled as well as it could have been.
Well, he is now super woke, so the left should start liking him, right? Now that he is all about donating to trans rights.
I LOVE that Sanderson does not include graphic adult content. I do not need to see characters in the bedroom. I prefer the more concrete elements of a relationship. Bedroom stuff is too predominant in entertainment. Often unnecessarily so.
I'm personally in between I sometimes think it's unnecessary but with a bedroom scene you really get real intimacy between two characters which sometimes helps the story.
I really commend you for bringing up Brandon Sanderson's lack of adult content, and then defending it. I really do not enjoy reading a lot of "adult fun" scenes in books, mainly because they make me uncomfortable, although I do respect authors who include them to further the development of their characters. The lack of those scenes is, as you say, a breath of fresh air. I like how Brandon Sanderson more than makes up for the lack of "adult fun" by writing many scenes showing us the struggles of characters falling in love, and the struggles of characters to stay in love and together while trying to save the world/ not dying. It's very compelling and interesting storytelling.
While I do not disagree,
Warbreaker.
He has plenty of adult content. Just not sex. He revels in depciting violence though.
I don't hate him. But I read the Mistborn trilogy and do not understand why so many people count it as a favourite fantasy series. I don't get why it is so beloved. I found it very mediocre.
Then again, there are books I love that others dislike. No one can please everyone.
His books bring a lot of people a lot of joy. I can appreciate him for that. 🙂
I also don't get why a lot of people regard Mistborn as so overwhelmingly groundbreaking. I read the trilogy but I liked not loved it to death. I think he's a very accomplished writer but not once in a lifetime genius.
The Mistborn trilogy is overhyped, so I can see why readers who have already read other fantasy works can find it mediocre. I think the main reason is loved so much by fans depends on its well constructed plot and magic system. That being said, I personality loved how everything comes full circle, if you know what I mean
@@tali5065 well mistborn will be better if u read it after Stromlight archive cause then you know lot about Worldhopping(people travelling different planets), Gods holding power which a shard 16 No ..
I think People will definitely love sanderson when he finishes his story
Stromlight archive mistborn elantris warbreaker dragonsteel it is all connected so you are only given a small details cuz All his book are connected
About how 16 people from yolen became Gods by killing adonalsium and what went after
COSMERE UNIVERSE
@@ambarghosh7433 I’m trying to remember how it was received originally when the first book came out, and I think what the early adopters found really original and exciting was mostly the hyper detailed, almost RPG like magic system, and people also love how he did his actions scenes, which were described in a very cinematic way. But it was divisive. Some reviewers saw that as original strengths, and others saw the same things as problematic, the book feeling too much like RPG, and the lacklustre style too close to a screenplay for a movie.
The dark Lord twist was good, but not really seen as groundbreaking.
@@dominicaudy8479 It's actually too rich for my taste. Too much stuff going on for me to enjoy.
One of the main reasons I see people dislike Sanderson are his fans, actually. I've been trying to get a good friend of mine into the Cosmere, but he actually deliberately told me that it's fans like me that are making his books unappealing to new readers. Made me realize that Sanderson has a very devout set of fans, and that if we're too forceful there's a high likelihood of turning people away who otherwise might enjoy the Cosmere.
Which is why you won't find a booktuber blast any of his work.
No different than those who hadn’t watched GoT while seemingly the whole world was all “are you crazy? It’s amazing watch it”. Reaction videos are a thing because people enjoy sharing what they love with others. It’s not Sanderson fans, it’s fans in general and it’s human nature.
Like My Hero Academia! I LOVE the anime but the shipping wars are insane bro😂😂
Yeah, I know one booktuber who's said that if she were to read more Sanderson, she would do it "privately", because she doesn't want to engage with the fanbase.
I’m the opposite, if I see someone go on a rant about a book they’re passionate about in the genre that I like, I will absolutely give that book a try.
I think all of these, except a couple of those that aren't really related to his writing, simply comes down to the statement 'You can't be all things to all people'. One of the great things about reading is that there is a huge variety of books that you can read in all different types of style. I personally get annoyed when authors distract me with "impressive" prose. But I know there are a lot of people who like to be impressed by the flowery language and there is nothing wrong wit that. They're just unlikely to enjoy the same authors that I do.
Spot on. It's just opinion and personal preference. A good writer is one that does what he is trying to do well. And Sanderson does what he is trying to do almost perfectly.
My personal preference is: you don't need to make your prose "flowery", by all means keep it simple. Hemingway is a genius writer and his prose is deliberately, thoughtfully uncomplicated. Just don't write like a high schooler redditor writes fan fiction.
This is it exactly. There are far too many people that, when confronted with something they don't like, are swift to label it "bad." That's like disliking pizza and labeling it just bad... For many people, pizza is great.
I dont like Sanderson because his lame explanations about how his magic systems work get me out of the story and ruin it for me. Characters are plain.
Idk about that man. The magic system explanations are fantastic and really well developed and logical.
@@CertifiedBullpupHater some people just don't care about the explanations to magic, Sanderson's Mistborn books are 300 pages explaining how his magic works, 200 pages trying to get to the point and 100 pages of actual story
I'm a huge Sanderson fan. I wonder how many other authors this sort of thing could be done with. I'm inclined to think he has received so much of the criticism because he has become so well known.
@Mank Hobley I think it is the lack of ambiguity and nuance in the characterization.
@@theatheistbear3117 agreed. His characters behave like they're holding a movie script and reciting their lines for the scene. On the other hand I do still like the books overall, always interesting, and always have a good plot payoff at the end.
Over all I think some of his characters might feel a little forced but he's gotten better.
@@theatheistbear3117 And the extreme amounts of word repetition.
Sorry... Late to the discussion:
Funny... my biggest gripe isn't Sanderson fans, as much as his detractors. Nearly makes me want to read more of his books simply to be in opposition.
Many (not all) of the folks who say they don't like him will go on and on about why. And when they speak on his "simplicity" and "predictability" ... it all comes off so holier-than-though and ultra-highbrow. All inadvertently being pretty judgemental and snooty, because as they go on telling you how it's "not for them," they'll add something like "However, ppl who like simplistic, predictable storytelling are clearly, well... simplistic and less intelligent. It's cool, whatever... do your thing, but it's not my thing." Or some variation of that.
I mean.... jeeeeeze. Maybe that's why some fans get defensive with criticisms aimed to only elevate the one who is criticizing?
That said, I am fine with it truly not being someone's cup of tea. But stop with the fallacies that depict you as somehow better than everyone else... Probably the same is equally true of the more rabid BS fans when they freak out over valid criticisms.
I'm unintentionally offering one having a wide arrangement of writing styles to enjoy in their personal quest of reading fulfillment and literature in general. No worse, no better... just authors possessing and utilizing different kinds of storytelling. Then... the question might be something like, "Did this author accomplish what they intended, with the palate of efforts, techniques and characteristics they chose to use, and ultimately tell a good or interesting tale in its own right?"
If they didn't meet their own standards for their work, then that is of the utmost importance in beginning to determine its worth or value.
Example: If I was to judge everything Hanna Barbara did with their animated shows as being less-than other animation companies who had more frames per second, and more animated renderings without so much repetition of cels, etc... then I would completely miss out on some other, great content that also utilized that 'simpler' animation style, merely because I refused to see any value in the lot of it. Can't I enjoy Scooby-Doo AS WELL AS a Miyazaki film? Or enjoy Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons as much as the animated film, Akira? Can't I get value from each, maybe even for different reasons?
Does everything have to be a Picasso? Can't we enjoy some Banksy, too? Or even some 'lowly' comic book art? Does that determine how simplistic anyone's mind is? Or does it demonstrate an openness to appreciate varied examples of creating art?
Anyway.... carry on.
You just hit the nail EXACTLY on the head. A big issue with art in general, from writing to painting to music, is a LOT of so-called "art enthusiasts" go out of their way to only admit liking the most obscure, different, and "complex" forms of the art in question, so as to appear "better than" and "smarter than" most people. They wear as a supposed "badge of honor" the examples they claim to enjoy, because they think if other people know they are really into things that are overly-complex, it will make people think they're "intellectuals". Thus, anytime something is widely popular and loved, these types will often go out of their way to criticize it and drag it down, because if the masses like it, then it must not say anything special about oneself to be seen liking it, too. It's absolutely toxic, absurd, insecure, and immature. Often the most "nose-held-high" folks fit those last adjectives to the tee. They are so desperate to be set apart from most people to appear better, that they go out of their way to like complicated/ abstract stuff, while also going out of their way to avoid liking anything mainstream. It's a massive ego trip. The irony is, these people prove the exact opposite about themselves in their attempts.
How often do we see critics of any genre of art praise something that is not well-known and/ or overly abstract, while denigrating things many people (who ARE avid consumers of said art-form too) tend to really enjoy? These critics don't value quality. They value uniqueness and obscurity and the abstract, but not due to these qualities making something good, but rather for these qualities in and of themselves.
I'm writing too much here. It's hard to totally put into words, but a lot of us have identified it in critics and the like. They are so snobbish in their desire to not be correlated to any majority opinion. And hypocritically, when they do find something unknown and obscure to praise, very often if that thing becomes popular down the line, they will abruptly and harshly turn on it the moment it gains majority awareness. It's very transparent.
The VAST majority of Sanderson "haters" fall decisively into this category. Some I'm sure have legit criticisms based on their personal preferemce, but after reading countless criticisms of his work with a genuine desire to understand why these people feel such, this has become apparent. Glaringly so.
The man is a once-in-a-lifetime talent for storytelling, world building, and creativity. And his ability to create such varierty of unique works so quickly is a testament to his gifted mind and discipline, plus his love for the craft. His worlds are each distinctly unique from any other fantasy and from each other, and it takes quite the creative genuis to create so many unique but complete magic systems in addition to the worlds. His characters have far more depth and development than most other fantasy characters, they are believable in their human traits and flaws, and their dialogue makes sense and flows naturally. He doesn't deserve all the negativity, but it's sadly par for the course for anyone with talent such as his. If anything, that says more about many humans, than about authors or muscians or artists.
Those Kickstarter arguments are really weird. It was a month long first of all. They kept bringing out information about it. You knew what you were getting; Brandon Sanderson books. That was what was being sold. You could also get the PDFs. They also said at one point during the Kickstarter they could bundle the books at the end of the year I'm pretty sure. And also, they definitely said the books were going to retail. Absolutely. That's a weird criticism.
Sanderson is my favorite author 😁
THERE ARE MUCH BETTER SAGAS FROM MY POINT OF VIEW: THE DARK TOWER, MALAZZAN , EARTHSEA, ROBIN HOBB, PATRICK ROTHFUSS....THE WITCHER, JOE ABERCROMBIE...
SORRY MY ENGLISH (I AM FROM ARGENTINA)
TOLKIEN!!!!
La torre oscura es infumable
I would argue Kelsier is a very morally grey character. All of Sanderson’s “criticisms” are pros for me. I love his writing, I also love beautiful prose. You are allowed to like both. And in terms of the kickstarter, those things you listed are just plain stupid. If you don’t like the way the kickstarter was made and yadda yadda, don’t back it. You can’t fault other people for putting their money into it just because you don’t agree with the way it was made (not saying YOU, but the person who brought up those “criticisms”). Also, you didn’t have to buy the physical copies, I got the ebook bundle. Also, he is releasing each of them on Amazon a couple months after the pledgers get it.
And as for the "no one knew what they were buying, excpet that 3 were Cosmere and 1 was not", that's ridiculous.
He literally had spoiler streams where he talked about the books in detail and read out the first chapters!
As for people feeling forced to buy them, he had also talked about the books "probably" becoming available through traditional publishers at some point, which is all he can really say until he has a deal signed.
In fact, that's the 1 criticism I have about the Kickstarter; I felt like there should have been at least 6 months between the Kickstarter deliveries and the books being available on Amazon.
Ideally I feel like the listings should not have gone up for any 1 given book until all the Kickstarters had their copy of that book.
Just from the first Mistborn book you already have Kelsier and The Lord Ruler being grey characters.
That’s what makes them valid criticisms. They are subjective. I’ve read the 1st three books in the Stormlight archive and couldn’t be bothered to finish it out. I may finish it when book 5 comes out, but it just feels wayyy too tacky. The actual story is superb, but essentially, it’s just one really big YA novel. Brandon Sanderson is the Anime of literature. And I (and many others) despise anime, for its oversimplification and juvenile disposition of tragic concepts.
@@austinquick6285I don't really agree with you, but maybe phrase it as the "shonen of literature" rather than an enormous category of work? If you most likely mean to say "simplistic and childish". Even some shonen like FMAB can discuss significant concepts and serious subjects with depth. It seems a bit simplistic to write off an entire category of storytelling. Legend of the Galactic Empire, Monster, and some others are basically as far from "juvenile disposition of tragic concepts" as you can get :)
@@RenaissanceRockerBoy I’ll agree to disagree. Again, he’s great at story telling, but Stormlight archive is the least bit tragic. It’s just a page turner. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, it’s just not for me. I’ve read ALOT of different books.. I mean ALOT. And Brandon is simply someone who id recommend to a friend who isn’t an avid reader, because the themes, the plot, the characters are way too obvious, and predictable. No work is required From the reader. He treats the reader like a sensitive child who can’t read subtext, and basically holds your hand throughout the entire story. I’m not saying every anime is like this, but most, certainly is.
I have three family members who work for Brandon. I asked if there was a way to hang on to the international orders and ship all four books at once, and they said there were no warehouses in the area that were large enough to store that many books. But I also remember Brandon saying something recently about getting a new warehouse. (Which might still not be big enough-- that's a lot of books!)
Being that famous is bound to get you some haters ig, I understand that his books might not be liked by a few but idk why someone would hate such a nice guy
Please don't buy into the argument that people just dislike him for being popular. It's a bit more than that, but fans like to just make this claim. I commented above with more if you were interested.
He donates five million dollars every year to the LDS of Mormon church that then uses those funds in partial to continue a campaign of hate against LGBT+ people. That alone should be enough to warrant at least minor scorn.
He's not as nice as he likes to pretend he is. He has an ego the size of Jupiter.
@@mattpace1026Not to mention donating millions to the most popular homophobic cult in the States.
@@mattpace1026lmao where
Morally grey... Dallinar. He's done some sketchy things to say the least haha
Or Kelsier and Raboniel
"you can't blame the guy for having bad writing because he does it in purpose" is one of the worst takes I've seen.
Simple and accessible != Simplistic and bad.
There are lots of authors with simple and accessible prose that is also poignant, concise and beautiful. Sanderson is bloated and calls attention to itself by being so obvious, and unnatural. The opposite of windowpane
I dont hate sanderson i actuale like the guy but i think he is over hyped.
What i like abput the dude.
Hard worker
Like his magic system
And the dude writes like a beast i appreciate that.
For me like i said is he is overhyped .
I took a break from reading in my teen years and the start of my adult years ( puberty women stuff like that).
When j got back to reading every o e was saying sanderson was the best he was the boom.
So i started of with mistborn.
Forst book amazing
Second book meh
Third book read 200 pages and stopped and that was almost 2 years ago.
Sanderson got me back into readimg then i found out i was mpre into grim dark and historicale fiction.
I belive there are other authors which we can recomand to people but everyone is like on auto pilot and only say sanderson.
Then my seco d problem
The fans.
Dude i just said i tjought book 2 was meh and i did ot finish book 3 i just sinned on booktube.
I dont like when people follow someone so blindley and act like they cant do no wrong.
How many people i told that i did not like the 2nd and 3rd book of miatborn ( loved book 1) and they treat me like i am a idiot .my tastes have changed like i said grimdark and hiatoricale fiction but no you must love sanderson and if yoi dont you are the devil.
Maybe some stuff are alittle hyperbolic but those are my experinces with sanderson fans.
Again like the dude and i actuale like some of his books but his kind of books are not my go to from the start and there is no problem with that
I feel the same way about sanderson, I like him alot as a guy but I tried reading the way of kings and let me tell you it was a pain to get through, and I have read my fair share of long fantasy and classics before, so the length wasn't an issue until I got so tired of it to a point that I got sick of reading it and every time I picked it up I felt like a heavy weight was on me. And when I told a bunch of his very very dedicated fans they were baffled that I didn't like it, cuz how could I not like SANDERSON! THE king of fantasy (at least that's how I see the fans think of him)
I found alot of things that I didn't enjoy with his work and I was planning to continue with it, but after much thinking I think I'm better off not to do so, instead i'll read something else more to my taste.
Also alot of his fans told me to listen to the audiobook in order to get through his work, and to that I say then what's even the point of reading if the book can't be enjoyed if I read it myself ?
They hate him cuz they ain’t him
You can't please everyone all of the time. I like his books they are very cinematic. Then again I thought Malazan books 1 and 2 were garbage.
Have been thinking about getting into reading Fantasy. This video convinced me to give Sanderson a try. Also put a smile a face when you stated you were a Christian and could relate to the no "adult fun" in his novels. I'm here for the fantasy, the adult intimacy has no bearing on me enjoying entertainment, especially with how blatant and common it is these days.
Content creator- I'm Christian, no sex in this book, quite literally thank God, that would be wrong
Btw... do you HATE this bloke for clicks?
😂
Lol, that's Gen Z in general. I'm an atheist and I'm actually tired of seeing unnecessary sexual context in everything. It's been overused lately and it has been frustrating us.
I love Sanderson his books are fun and easy to read and follow. And it’s a bonus that he pumps them out so quickly
@@crispysneef It is if they are excellent books which I can say I like a lot of his stuff and he is my favorite author
The fan base for me, I stopped recomending his books because his fans can be really toxic. If you don't like a character an explain why people just jump down your throat about it and why you are either "Dumb & don't understand the character" or "You'll like after the 3rd re-read...."
I just can't....
Seriously I see that pattern with his die hard fans alot, they immediately think lesser of you if you don't like his work, kinda pathic lol
Yeah it’s unfortunate the fan base doesn’t replicate Brandon’s character
I have never seen this before, it's actually the opposite, people who hate brandon sanderson's books say stuff like "I can't see why people like his books", "this IS bad", "this IS boring", just straight up not acknowledging that their opinion isn't fact.
Except for a few irrelevant points (kickstarter, his popularity etc) it is a pretty good summary of why I tried Sanderson over the last decades and after a few books realized that even though his writing got much better after WOT and when he started Stormlight it would never be a writer for me.
I don’t hate him for sure, he’s quite a super nice guy (saw him twice at book tours, chatted with him once) and full of interesting ideas that when he talks about them, and passionately at that, sound awesome, but I just don’t enjoy much his stories, and DNF a few.
The criticism predates his popularity, though. It was essentially all their since the first reviews of Elantris, of the first Mistborn, Warbreaker etc. His first few books were criticized also for their massive reliance on dialogue.
To me the Cosmere has become a bit the MCU of Fantasy. I’m happy for its fans that he’s so prolific, and for Brandon that he’s so popular, but it’s not my cup of tea as a reader of Fantasy or any other genre.
I will just say this about the prose though: it’s not because Brandon says he wants it to be invisible and feel like every day language and simple that this choice can’t be criticized. When you don’t like this style, his occasionally approximative grammar and word usage, his lack of work on the language, his prose is hardly “invisible”. It rather stands in the way of his story.
I hated the MCU so that definitely explains some things.
Hard agree. Prose can’t be invisible. If people voice as a complaint that the style is too simple, someone has noticed it. It’s a valid criticism.
Totally agree with you on the pros of the language, I had difficulty going through the name of the wind but what made me keep coming back to the story and eventually finishing it was the pros, in sanderson's case it just made me get away from the book further.
@@zhyarjasim There are other things that weren’t working for me, but the language sure was a big part. And while I’ve read in English for 40 years now, I’m not a native speaker-it’s not so common an English writer has put me off because of syntax or grammar or badly using words. This was early in his career though, maybe it got a bit better over time, like he got much better at describing scenes after studying closely how Robert Jordan did it while he finished WOT.
@@dominicaudy8479 As a fellow non-native English speaker, I do find that I pay more attention to English grammar and syntax. I hate reading in my native language, personally, so I exclusively read English.
Sanderson’s style put me off for similar reasons, along with why he chose to write like this and the mentality behind it.
@@theatheistbear3117 I disagree I feel like as a non-native English speaker, Brandon Sanderson’s books are easier to get into than most fantasy books. I think it’s more accessible and easier to understand
I liked his earlier stuff. So far not a fan of the new direction he's going.
Same. I keep wishing for more of the earlier stuff of Brandon’s. But ever since The Way of Kings I feel like his direction is getting worse the more leeway he’s given from editors and his beta-readers
@@chandlerholloway3900 he's appeased the woke mob and allowed their politics to invade is books either because he is a doofus, or he is in cahoots with the globalists. I tend to think of him as a doofus.
My two cents and hot take: Sanderson is like the MCU of fantasy, the Cosmere has the same strengths and weaknesses of any shared universe
There are a lot of authors that write in simple terms but are interesting to read, even Bukowski and Yoshimoto Banana. It's because they have a certain rhythm and are not repetitive in their prose.
Everything I read from Sanderson so far was waaay too repetitive to just call it intentional or simple and effective.
Why does the sentence "Character nodded." appear 3!! times on the same page in Mistborn? Did no one edit this?
How many times can you write "xxx frowned" "xxx raised an eyebrow" "xxx flushed/blushed" "xxx smiled" with the exact same words in a book without noticing yourself that this is just not good writing? It's not simple, it's mind numbing.
I could skim over Sanderson's texts, understand the story and not lose much. If i did the same with LeGuins Earthsea I would lose A LOT.
People's bewilderment and loyalty for some personalities used to be funny... It is now disturbing. A terrible writer is just terrible. Sanderson fits that category. It is as simple as that.
Eh, I found Yoshimoto’s prose to be sorta underwhelming.
Sanderson’s isn’t great either :p
But I was reading and the example called my attention since I felt disappointed as I went into her work.
Some people simply do not care about stuff like that. I'm one of them, hi
And that is bad because????
If you can’t read a fantasy book because it doesn’t have “adult fun” in it then you need make some major life changes
I tried to get into Sanderson. I thought he was pretty average, i didn't necessarily hate his style, he has an interesting imagination for the scale of story he wants to tell. However, Sanderson's books are very, very long. It begins to wear on you after a while. It also gets very frustrating reading his book because the points/ideas he is trying to get across could be more concise, and cut down to be significantly shorter. After readings long chunks of his books if you think about it, it can be summarized in a few sentences, meaning large parts of the stories are unnecessary, or filler. Sanderson will also do a lot of exposition dumps in his books, why not include that info then. In order to make the "world building" immersive you need those colorful stain glass prose. He give barebone ones, which makes reading his books a task rather than enjoyable.
Which is what I think is people's biggest gripe with him, getting through his books is a task to get the small nuggets of the larger story he is trying to set up. Many people online say his world is great, we as new readers might have a vague idea of what is going on and why people love it, but when we attempt to catch up, we don't get anywhere near as interested as others are about it, and that is the issue. I think people run into this problem when reading his work, the substance, unfortunately isn't there to justify the amount of time we have to invest in reading all his work. I got like 8 books deep (which isn't a lot, but it actually is) before calling it quits. I'll likely just stick to summaries of his work if I want to know his larger picture. I will acknowledge his work is very easy to get into/good starting point for newer or not big readers, but his work requires too much investment that we're not willing to put in, because we find the way he gets us there tedious. This could also just be that my taste is different. I like dense, and shorter books, usually read classics and foreign classics. I'm more impressed when a writer can write a good short book than a longer one. As some people seem to care more for the high volume of content they read, I enjoy being able to sit with the material longer and reflect on it. Sanderson doesn't have much depth to his stories like that, because he is still setting it up for later books.
I think a good way of expressing it: if a good book is like a good film, Sanderson is making movie length TV show episodes for a good TV show. He fall short of what we'd want from a good film, and plenty of people who put in the work to watch every episode of the show will enjoy it more than the casual viewer who just wanted a good film experience.
Ok I don't hate Sanderson, but his books are mid at best and trash at worst.
1. His prose don't become any less crappy just because it is intentional or accessible. ASOIAF, Harry Potter have accessible prose and are much better than Sandersons.
2. Shallan and Dalinar ARE NOT MORALLY GREY CHARACTERS. They just regret things they did in the past. That does not make them morally grey.
Shallan has murdered family members, sought to steal from her main ally, outright lied to everyone around her, and engaged with groups she knew to have negative intentions for her own gain. All while ALSO having a good heart, wanting the best for the world and people, and trying to be a better person. She is 100% a morally grey character.
Dalinar spent the majority of his life as an extreme tyrant, a warlord who murdered countless in a quest for power. He has intensely violent tendencies, yet in his age he has matured tremendously and worked hard to change, grow, and redeem himself, all while still having that aggression within him. One of the deep character developments Sanderson wrote about him was, "Sometimes a hypocrite is a man in the process of change." A line which holds massive philosophical depth and wisdom.
You are further proving the point of many haters either not understanding/ knowing his works, or just didn't read much of it in the first place, and are just hating to be contrarian.
As for his prose. You're using a false position to dispute it. The argument is not that he "writes simple prose intentially, so it can't be bad." It's that just because prose is simpler, doesn't make it bad. He is intentional about his prose, yes, but the key here is that it WORKS for the majority of readers who can read giant books, and thus the success speaks for itself. If so, so many people are able to perfectly visualize his worlds and stories, and imagine themselves in them, and fall in love with the magic systems, then his writing is working. The argument is: it's okay to not like the simpler prose, but being simple does not automatically make it bad, and your dislike is a valid opinion, but not an objective flaw of his work. At the end of the day, if something works as intended, and draws massive success, then any attempt to label it as "bad" is going to be seen as foolish. If it was bad, it wouldn't have such wide appeal, considering the size and scale of his works largely blocks "simple" readers with lower comprehension from even attempting them. You HAVE to be an avid reader to be willing to dive into his books, thus if his prose is succeeding with the vast majority of those readers, it's objectively not "bad". You don't find this much success with a lack of talent or poor quality, not when your target audience excludes the population of people who WOULD enjoy "trash" writing.
@@JadusMoltriel No. She isn't morally grey. She is one of the very few complicated/layered characters Sanderson has managed to write, and has made "mistakes"/regrets past actions. But she is very clearly a "good" character. Everything she does DURING the events of the books is on the side of "good"
Sanderson is by far the best at building a storyline into a big finish. Each one of his books do this and make his style exciting and addictive. In my opinion, he's the master.
The whole - the character will discover things about the magic system that will save them because of that reason - what about the end of the final empire? Or the end of well of ascension (vin then elend?) aren’t these the exact same things?
Its not lack of adult content, everything is just so juvenile. Mistborn is one of the dumbest books ive ever read. I hate every book ive read by him, Warbreaker, Final Empire and tWoK. And none of the reasons you list here feels familiar. And in my understanding, except for the fans part, is the real reasons people dislike him either. I would recommend to watch JustJuanReaders review of mistborn and tWoK, because he puts to word every thing i dislike about Sanderson. Because i feel these are just trivial reasons, and not actually proper criticism of his mediocre work, i feel i need to downvote. Sorry. A theory I have is that, imo tWoK is pissporr stupid bland simple literature, bc stormlight are big the average american who lacks reading comprehension, feels really good about themself for finishing it and understanding it. Im from scandinavia, and my circle of friends read alot of fantasy, and no one i know liked stormlight or mistborn. Bookstores here are filled with them because they dont really sell. A book store in the city center said they had to send back a bunch to publisher. And i think maybe the reason for that is, if youre the target demographic of the books here in scandinavia, your english is probably too poor for you to bother reading a big book in english. And if your skills are good enough to tackle it, you would probably find it stupid, tacky and juvenile. Rant over. Probably wrong channel to rant on. But tbh i hoped you actually would take a deep dive in why people dont like him and see actual criticism, not just stuff you find on reddit posts.
Sanderson- to me- feels like an author carefully curated to appeal to a mass of readers. I often found myself slightly disappointed in the depth of his ideas and character building, but I think his passion for world building is evident in all of his stories. He is an entertaining author, though perhaps not as eloquent as his community would lead you to believe.
Sanderson's writing makes me sleepy. Rothfuss has spoiled my expectations of Fantasy prose.
Really well done video. Adult fun should be a new book category lol 😂
the Sanderstans will always, blindly defend him. The issue is not that his writing style is simple. There are plenty of competent and amazing writers that write in a "simple" manner. The problem that he writes as if his readers are a bunch of idiots. He has no sense of nuance or subtlety, he over-explains everything, and nothing is left to the imagination. He beats you over the head by repeating the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. His books read as if they're written by a machine, guiding you to feel a one, specific way and reach only one, single conclusion. His characters have no depth, they don't grow, and the dialogue is amateurish. He is a YA author that churns out robotic, formulaic books, while being allowed to advertise himself as a serious, adult fantasy-writing god.
people mistake the notion of wanting to read good prose for meaning "flowery prose". a well written book is actually not flowery, but features a sort of simplistic beauty that unfolds cinematically. like when you read the first few pages of a haruki murakami or percival everette novel. Compare the intensity, the minimalist immersion at the beginning of "Fledgling" by Octavia Butler with the silly-goose stumbling, uneveness of Sanderson's "Skyward", we meet two women characters and right away we feel more connected to Butler's charcter than Sanderson's because we actually FEEL-- shock, terror, stakes. Sanderson on the other hand just kind of tells us there are stakes without us actually feeling them. And Butler does it without using nary an SAT word. i say all that to say-- it's not necessarily dense poetry that people are looking for, just well constructed sentences that don't feel spoonfed, that feel like they are immersing us instead of just telling us what's happening.
Hemingway has "simple" prose, terse prose. But never basic or forgettable.
Lot's of authors write simple prose, but are interesting to read without being repetitive. Sanderson is not.
@@versuch8239 exactly. I'm reading Hemingway right now, and he's very simple. Very straightforward. Yet still above and beyond anything Sanderson puts out.
When it comes to the kickstarter something that has to be remembered is that he did not think it would make 40 million dollars and so the reason he made it seem like these books would not be available after the kickstarter is because he did not think enough people would want them in order to print more. Just a thought I had about that.
Just because Sanderson intentionally writes with simple and accessible prose doesn't mean people can't point to it as a reason they don't like Sanderson. Can people never say they don't like something just because it's intentional?? It may simply not align with some people's taste, and it's okay to give that as a reason regardless of intentionality on the side of the writer. It just means it they aren't the audience it is written for.
Pulling out new, never explored magic when a problem arises in a story is a problem with the writing and lack of foreshadowing, not a problem with soft magic.
Honestly I find the ending of the first Mistborn book to be a dues ex machina. It's definitely possible to do this with hard magic and with soft magic. It's not a matter of magic systems employed, but a matter of writing
I think his point wasn't that people aren't allowed to like his writing style, but rather that you shouldn't say that he's a bad writer because he chooses to be more straight-forward with his prose. I think Sanderson said that he tried a more flowery prose with couple of the Secret Projects, so I guess we'll have to wait and see whether he's able to pull that off.
@@Colaman112 it would be nice if it was stated like that in the video. It came off very, people who don't like Sanderson's prose are wrong. He literally said that not liking Sanderson because of prose is invalid and you can't criticize it because it's intentional
Personally, I don't have a problem with Sanderson's prose, but I understand why some people might
@@Colaman112 It's not bad because it's intentionally simplistic and straightforward, though.
Sometimes I wonder how “intentional” it really is, and rather it’s just how Brandon’s psychology works and he’s not capable of a different style. He says he wakes up everyday feeling the same so he doesn’t seem to experience emotions like most people, plus he has the mind and background of an accountant and an engineer writing fantasy stories. Things have to make sense in a logistical way in his brain and it comes across that way with his prose and magic systems. Not saying it’s a bad thing, people can love that style approach, but it’s not legendary literature like some fans make it out to be. When it works, it works well and it’s unique from other fantasy, but I feel like his character depth is lacking because of this same approach and just due to the way his psychology works. His characters feel more like dictionary “by the book” sorts. And then it’s like people are saying Taco Bell is the best authentic Mexican food in the world. His characters taste like a good night out to Taco Bell, but I don’t experience the rich flavors of authentic Mexican food with them if that makes sense lol
@@Colaman112 The reasons he writes the way he does are bad, though.
I can't stand his characters, they read like bad fanfiction.
This comes from a guy that likes good fanfiction too.
One thing I love about the hard magic systems is that it gives you an opportunity to go hunting for clues when things are outside the ordinary. How did they do that with the rules I currently know? How many rules are still missing? Does this fit one of them? How does it work with the other rules I know? I found this super entertaining throughout Mistborn.
Sanderson is really good about subtly pointing out when hard magic is being used. You can totally miss it, but finding those nuggets can be so exciting to unpack and unravel, almost like the book has a hidden puzzle within it that you get to solve. It's one of the things I've really grown to love about his work.
I have read Mistborn. All of the Stormlight Archives. And some of his other books of the cosmere. I didn’t enjoy either of these hahaha. I get why people like him but I really tried to like him. I just feel his writing is not for me.
If you wouldn’t had liked them, you would had stopped reading them.
I too got tired after read 11 books of Margaret Weiss and decided they were mediocre, but at first i liked them.
Surprised that you didn't mention his homophobic comments in the past. I've seen a lot of people who dislike Sanderson mention his comments being the reason they dislike him.
In the past though. Peoples ideas change.
@@choco1199 you are right for sure, but he hasn't made any statements regarding changed ideas. I'm not making a judgement on him, I'm just surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video when it's definitely a reason that some people dislike him
@@MatthewTeixeira He did mention a gay or bi character of bridge four and apparently one character from the main cast has a crush on another dude.
@@MatthewTeixeira also,spoilers for bands of mourning:
Ranette is not straight
There are asexual characters in his books and he did have people help him with the representation so there is queer rep in his stories. I really appreciate that since Ace rep is so hard to find even in this day and age.
Maybe he hasn't explicitly come out and said his views have changed but his writing these types of character, with help from beta readers, shows he has evolved, at least a bit.
The problem I have with his clear glass approach is that literature is by definition about words.
If you obscure the words, and don’t really care about the language being used, why are you writing a book and not a screenplay?
Sanderson also has a writing style, because of his simplicity, which creates a lot of bloat, and his word choice is a part of it.
If you can use a longer word to describe something which otherwise would need multiple words which altogether fill a higher amount of space, or an entire sentence, it is not a bad thing.
For example the word “obtuse”, meaning *slow and difficult to understand*.
There are also many words that are not particularly plain which make sentences more dramatic. “Disembowel” versus “eviscerate”, “cut”, versus “lacerate”, etc.
If I wanted to describe a dark cult being happy about their ritual coming to fruition, “overjoyed” would be too common and less dramatic, whereas “enraptured” would make the sentence have more weight.
He also isn’t as clean as Abercrombie, despite both being workmanlike, because his sentences have more weight behind them because of how he uses words, and he really puts effort into his character voice. I could read the same paragraph in different POVs and understand who I’m following without being told.
Sanderson has admitted to writing in the “marvel movie” since rather than writing the next “Lord of the Rings.” As a child, he wasn’t a huge book fan, neither was I with the exception of graphic novels and manga. That’s what people like about him: He writes with a screenplay in the back of his mind. I honestly don’t think his writing needs to be more complex, especially since it’s easier for people (especially people with learning disabilities or autism) to understand his work more clearly. With that being said, this is the reason why I DNF’d Mistborn: The Final Empire half way through and started Way of Kings (don’t worry, I’m coming back) because it was dumbed down to the max combined with the confines of the genre AND his prose style. I actually think his prose style works better in Adult sci-fantasy.
@@edgytypebeat781 I’m not saying that his writing needs to necessarily be “complex”. Let alone difficult to understand. Joe Abercrombie doesn’t write very complex prose, and yet is vastly better.
You can also use more dramatic words that most people don’t know if you put it in the right context. Nobody is going to assume “the monster eviscerated the man”, to mean that he was hugged.
I also firmly disagree with your assumption about people with autism; I am autistic, and English is my second language. I can read books from two hundred years ago just fine (I particularly like *Wuthering Heights*).
Sanderson himself admits his writing is "transparent". Meaning, his intentions are purely about immersing the reader into the world making them experience the story. If someone's not as good of a wordsmith, as they're a storyteller, I don't think they should change their entire style at the cost of sacrificing what makes their writing what it is. Saying that he might as well write a screenplay if he doesn't put that much effort in the prose literally ignores what makes books different from screenplays--the experience of having a story play in your mind, instead of movies and other such stuff which are visual mediums. I'm reading Stormlight Archive for the first time and since these are thick books, I read many other things alongside them. And, I clearly see what Brandon hopes to accomplish with his writing--an immersive emotional experience of a story, as opposed to an extremely polished piece of literary value, if that makes sense. I don't think it's a problem. Like, a casual reader wouldn't even care about such a thing imo, and because he's so accessible in a reading difficulty level sense, they'd be able to enjoy it.
@@krishbohra5536 I know what Sanderson said. I’m critiquing him based on that.
I don’t find his work immersive precisely because everything is written as if it is mundane. There is no gravitas.
I know that. Giving the reader a detailed image in their Mind’s Eye is *part* of what makes Literature what it is, but the writing/prose is what is supposed to evoke those details. That’s what makes it different from an audio drama. Literature *is* the writing. Even if your Mind’s Eye is weak (like mine), the book should still flow nicely. Each line should be punchy, snappy. Sanderson doesn’t do any of this. It’s dry, with the taste of unflavored oatmeal. It’s not bad, but he’s not taking full advantage of the medium like a game such as *Spec Ops: The Line* does.
You might as well argue that good controls in a video game, a great variance of shot compositions in movies and tv shows, and audio quality and mixing in music aren’t nearly as important. They are.
All great literature has an immersive emotional experience. Having no literary value as a writer is terrible. It’s completely counterintuitive to what you’re trying to be. Imagine a painter that doesn’t have any artistic value. It’s absurd.
And I, as a rather casual reader, do find prose important. Language is important. People are becoming less well read, more illiterate, and their vocabulary is diminishing. I find that a terrible thing. Language is the communication of ideas, and the more ways that we can express them, the better.
I agree with the abercrombie bit, but that is it. It annoys me when writers try to add "weight" to their sentences too often. Comes across as pretentious and trying hard to sound smart/flowery. If they do it mostly in certain areas like abercrombie during berserk scenes or how rothfus will sporadically, I do enjoy it.
Who’s hating on my boyyy🥹🥹🥹😤😤😤
I like Sanderson. I'm not a fan of his works so far.
Elantris is the only one I've finished and only as an audiobook. I couldn't read it. It was too monotonous and boring. Audiobook was aiiight. But the story itself was underwhelming.
I will try another one of his books, but so far I think that his style is bland and his story structure is uneven, it takes forever to catch a momentum and once it does it feels rushed with info dumping.
Dude, stop trying. It doesn't get any better, the guy is just a terrible writer that got popular for some, bewildering, reason. And now people are just afraid to admit how awful his books are.
I don’t like him. I hate the whole “hard magic” garbage.
I hold a high degree in writing, have been a journalist for 10 years, and an author for longer. I want to refute some of your points.
1) Claiming you are intentionally writing poorly does not make it okay to do so. It's not just a style of prose. It's just bad. I've read elementary school level books with even simpler word choice, they still were able to have a wide variety of descriptors, word choice, and to evoke strong imagery though well crafted prose - and most importantly - were able to convey a deeper meaning, a message, through the words and narrative.
Quality writing does not = more complex. Hell, journalism itself is an example. The entire point is to be very simple, concise, and for general readers. It's hard to write that way. Harder usually than being wordy. Sanderson has a very simply style that often gets muddy, is skin deep, and lacks any kind of literary merit on this one point alone. Especially for a genre which has typically relied on strong prose, this is an issue.
That said, taking my scholar hat off, I actually do think there is a valid argument for pure enjoyment factor. People seem to enjoy it. I've enjoyed it on occasion. One need not be a James Joyce to be a successful entertainer. I simply do not think he is a good writer. He's an entertainer. Just like how a soap opera TV star may be very entertaining to watch, they may be a great actor, but they're not the same as a Broadway play actor. They're different beasts.
2) Writing cinematically is fine. I do so. The real issue, and what people actually mean when they say this complaint, is that Sanderson is specifically writing in a pandering style. His characters almost always do exactly what you would expect them to do, the beats fall specifically where you would think they would, and climaxes follow the path that has least resistance. In short, he's writing to entertain, not to connect.
Most big names in epic fantasy write to explore themselves, the world, and to, yes, entertain, but often just as importantly examine some important aspect of being. On it's simplest term, they write to convey. This means that characters do not always do what is best for pure hype and dramatic timing. They stumble when you may personally feel a climactic win is needed. They say or do things which make you dislike them even. Sanderson's do not.
A good example of this is Donaldson's Covenant series. The main character is objectively unlikeable. He is a Leaper, mean, angry, a rapist, self-absorbed, and yet, you empathize with him. You can understand his reasoning. You can feel his pain. And while it does not excuse his behavior, you can see the reasoning. You can imagine how you could be similar in such a situation.
Sanderson would never even attempt such depth, as he is on a rail for maximum and widest appeal. That's the end goal for Sanderson. That alone. And that's a problem for quality writing.
3) Yeah, he's Mormon. Most Mormon writers do this. Not that big a deal. A bit boring, but it's fine. I'm fine with grander than life characters, icons really. Harkens back to old Chaucer-style tales of single minded protagonists and antagonists.
4) Again, fine. Not all books need sex. If you want to do romance you may want to allude to something, but you really don't need to get explicate.
5) Hard magic systems are fine. Generally I prefer it, as long as it's complex and has room for growth. My only counter is that it is a failing of the author if you do not understand all the rules. By it's nature, you are supposed to know them all in such a system. If you don't, the author messed up in how they introduced them, or they made them too unwieldly.
6) The popular argument has more validity than you would expect. For many, myself included, it's not that he is popular, it's that his brand is taking over the entire genre. It is starting to edge out deeper prose style novels, and it is being considered more and more the definitive fantasy. It's kind of like how the MCU has replaced basically all fantasy and most SF in film. Yeah, I like a good turn my brain off superhero movie, but I still want that deep and epic SF or fantasy that changes my views or makes me reconsider some aspect of life. But, they're the most popular, so that's mostly all we get. Same issue here.
End of the line, my feelings are that it is a bit of a shame that someone who is mostly just focused on pure quantity over quality, and pandering, has taken the stop stop, and for many is considered the definition of epic fantasy. Not enough of a gripe to count anything against him. But I also think it's a valid sentiment to have.
7) It is formulaic. That's okay, usually. But is shows a lack of ability to improvise.
8) The Kickstarter was horrible for the industry. I'm in publishing and this was nothing but bad for books, writing, and publishing. It's the introduction of lootboxes to books. The cost was practically criminal, and this was a very bad faith move. Were this for charity, I'd probably be fine with it. But as a pure profit move, I found it in horrible form, it hurt the industry, and it showed that he is anti-consumer.
Your write a book. You sell it. The customer can see what it is, pay a fair price, and get what they paid for. You don't hide your product and charge drastically higher than standard to make a quick buck. It's lowbrow, and it shows a certain lack of character. Bad for the industry, bad for the consumer, just bad.
It also preys on well known psychology and manipulative tactics. He knew that. He did it anyway. Everything else he's done makes me feel like he is a bad writer, good entertainer, but has avoided discussing his character. This move showed me he is not a very good person. Which is fine, but it's there.
End of the line, if you've read this far, Sanderson is popcorn entertainment. I love popcorn. I love being entertained. He's not a great writing though. He explores nothing. He reveals nothing. He adds nothing. But, if you like him then by all means, keep on keeping on.
I simply say that those who dislike him for these reasons have valid cause. And please don't support manipulative business practices. It's bad for everyone.
Thank for such a well written comment, it’s puts me in the perspective of someone who has valid reason to not like Sanderson.
I don't entirely understand your point regarding the Kickstarter hurting the industry, would you care to elaborate? I would posit that he did not "drastically overcharge" for the Kickstarter. Basically, each book box cost $50, and each box included a high-quality hardcover book with gorgeous art included, a nice bookmark featuring that art and an enamel pin. Also, the fact that he didn't tell people about the books ahead of time just added to the excitement for his fans, and clearly it worked given how successful it was. Also to be clear I'm trying to be combative at all, I'm just curious about your take.
@@yremogtnomnad From a business and publisher standpoint, it's the lootboxification of books. Anytime you have a product being sold on a "Trust me, it's good" premise, that's a problem.
This mentality hurts the industry as a whole, due in part to how successful it is, making it more likely to be used more often.
When I say it hurts the industry, I'm not talking about the big houses or the big names. They will make out like bandits due to this behavior. It's the smaller publishers and names that will suffer as their books end up sidelined in favor of big-dollar book boxes. But mostly it will hurt readers.
We see this time and time again in virtually every industry someone attempts this in. It's how you go from single high-quality works that come with reviews and the ability to browse before you buy to higher-priced mystery works that feed on FOMO psychology to lock customers into purchasing a product before it's even complete.
It took gamers almost a decade to see how it ruined the industry and still is hurting games today.
Beyond that though, it's also just plain unethical. Mystery boxes, especially when they are time-limited, prey on known psychological tricks to get customers to buy without actually knowing if it's something they want. It preys on people with a lower ability to manage those triggers: such as children, with OCD, or who have other similar addictions.
This is a known fact. Many studies have found this type of behavior to be predatory, enough so that a fair number of nations now outright ban this type of practice.
I don't recall the exact information now since it's been a while, but at the time I went through the value of the items in the box and I also found that he was drastically uncharging the value of the items and for the book.
End of the line, it's practices like this that inflate prices, decrease quality, and overall hurt consumers.
The only cases of such behavior in books I've seen that were similar were for Charity, and then it is generally more acceptable since at least it's for a good cause, not profit-motivated.
Practices like this should not be supported and those who try to cash in on them should be called out. It's anti-consumer.
thank you for writing this tome of a comment. it genuinely saves me the time to express incredibly similar views. tbh, i think you weren't as harsh as you should've been but overall, great discussion.
I feel a need to leave a disclaimer after liking this, given how strongly I disagree with your conclusions.
Despite that, the comment still deserves to be at the top of the page. The hyperbolic question posed by the title is answered better by this comment than the video itself. And as others have pointed out, the structure and writing style fits the medium well.
I just hope the readability index comes from the journalistic experience you mentioned, and isn't subtle burn towards Sanderson fans. Jokes aside, it definitely does make a long RUclips comment more approachable.
I agree with you on many of the individual points, but then you take these leaps that I can't follow.
Sanderson does have some glaring weaknesses as an author, but in my opinion they are offset by his strengths. He might not be any good at writing prose, but he is great at crafting epic narratives, seamlessly weaving countless plot lines into a single cohesive story. This is the opposite of someone like Rothfuss, who is a master of prose, but the plot is fragmented and feels quite episodic.
His characters only seem to capture a small part of the human condition, but some of that it captures well. The worldbuilding is where he really shines, which to me is one of the most important aspects of fantasy. I can't follow you on the "popcorn entertainment" idea at all. It could be Stockholm Syndrome after all these pages, perhaps it's the mirror that his characters hold up to my own existential dread, but he certainly managed to capture me with his ideas and his world like few other authors.
I give up, I can't coherently express my thoughts.
Surprised the ""Humor" isn't on the list, some of the "funny" characters are just pure cringe.
I don't get your dismissal of the first reason. If his writing is bad, but he says he did it purposefully, does that make it not bad?
One reason I dislike Sanderson, is that I find his views on religion in the books too simplistic, and for lack of a better word, ignorant. It is very emblematic of someone who's grown up in the Christian faith in the US. And usually that wouldn't be a problem. However, when one is writing a character like Sazed, who's supposedly studied over 300 religions, you need to allow for more complexity than that. There's one line in particular in the Hero of Ages, where Sazed thinks that "Each religion described itself as being the truth, and others as false" (or something like that). This is patently false in the real world when you consider Eastern religions like Hinduism or Buddhism, some pagan faiths, as well as some African religions. And some of these are among the largest religions in the world. Look around, mate!
All that said, I do enjoy his writing for the most part.
Had to turn this one off after a couple of minutes. The background music was annoying and distracting.
Let me say I don't hate sanderson far from it I really like the guy and I like what he does, but I think where the problem is, his fans seem unable to take criticism of his work ( ik it's gonna hurt when your favorite thing gets criticized) my all time favorite author is murakami and despite that I have my own criticism of his works and I don't even like all the books the man writes, but from the few stories I've read I adore his stories.
Also one major things that can affect the readers experience and that is taste, but I see that problem with many fans even outside the fantasy/book community. I've been told many times how awsome certain mangas are but for the love of God I can't get into it, and when I do it's like I force myself.
The things you mentioned in this video most of them weren't even an issue for me (especially the kikstarter idek what that is lol) and the writing and stuff were things I was ready to ignore for the sake of that small hope that I'd love his works as much as the fans did, alas that didn't happen which makes me sad cuz now I can't get into one of the epic and most discussed fantasy story.
I think on your point of 'adult fun' for me the book read more like a YA rather than an adult novel and that's not bc of the 'adult fun' part but just the way the story was written.
One last thing that really irritated me was the structure of the book, it felt like a chours to get through.
I feel the same way. The fans take any criticism personally, and most booktubers follow the trend without giving any real criticisms, and if they do they seem really “safe” like they’re afraid to wake the Sanderson mob
I recently finished the Mistborn trilogy and felt so dissapointed, I found the inner dialogues to be so repetitive and boring, Vin had the same "I can be an assassin and wear dresses too" dialogue going on for pages in all three books, same with Sazed in The Hero of Ages , he kept rumbling on if there was any truth in the religions he knew and a "purpose" but in a really shallow way. Also I found the way he wrote the skaa to be so problematic, like they just didn't know what to do with their freedom, they needed an autorative figure to not be incompetent, (the same arguments slavers had in real life), we never really got to know the skaa in depth, almost all characters are noble or mixed, he was constantly trying us to feel pity for the noble and kinda did an apology of the Lord Ruler in the third book (?), and kept portraying Yomen as a good ruler when he literally kept slavery and unpunished rape of women on his kingdom. This was kinda brainstorming but i just don't feel I can trust this author anymore
Ehhh I disagree. The constant struggle of Vin to know her place in the world in my opinion made me empathize with her as a character, Sazed had his faith questioned which is often a struggle among us a humans, what we do and why it’s important..if it is even important at all.
The third complaint I don’t agree with because it explains pretty well how the Lord ruler tried his best but was corrupted by ruin, leading to much of the brutality of the world we find ourselves in. As for complaints about the skaa not being able to lead themselves I also tend to disagree, simply because I think Sanderson accurately portrayed how subjected humans react to sudden freedom.
It’s human nature, Stockholm syndrome is a thing for a reason, it can’t be used as an excuse to continue slavery, but it is a legitimate concern, similar to how you don’t give a starving man a full course meal immediately, or try to get a child to run a marathon before he learns to walk.
😘 Loved the “adult fun” description! That made laugh 😆 And that aspect is not something I want to read in my books either, so I regularly skim over those bits when I encounter it. I own almost all of Branderson’s books - in gorgeous Gollancz white 😍 - but recently found myself not recommending them to somebody because I feared they were maybe too YA or too ‘simple’ for his tastes. So I seem to think they lean that way, but they work as gateway books as you suggested here. I wasn’t interested in the KS - full releases later seemed highly likely to me, and I’m generally a plain, mass market paperback boy - but I think some folks were particularly unhappy at the hint of an actual serious problem in the run-up to the announcement, based upon how it all came out initially.
Don't like all these click bate videos, I mean it's almost every video now 😔 Brandon Sanderson is the best selling Fantasy writer of the modern era, no one is saying this!
I am a big fan of Brandon Sanderson the podcaster, the person, the teacher, and the worker. I'll say up front that I AM impressed with his work ethic. However, I feel strongly, maybe too strongly, about the quality of his writing. His fans frustrate me because I feel that they muddy the waters for other people like me getting into fantasy. I read a little bit of a lot of different genres. I never really read fantasy, but I read a fantasy series that clicked with me on every level and I thought "wow, I have a whole genre to dig into now. What should I read next?!" Then, I kept seeing nothing but 6/5 star reviews for all of his books and every booktuber seemed to worship him as a modern day master of the genre. I had enjoyed his podcasts and lectures about writing, so I got very excited to try Way of Kings.
The first thing that jumped out at me was the prose. It felt colorless to a point that my initial hype plummeted in pages. I am not a hyper critical reader, either. I read and enjoy books on kindle that are by newer authors who have a lot of room for growth, and I can really enjoy their stories even if there are errors and mistakes. I have read an author and literally was able to chart his growth from one book to the next and it felt very satisfying. I read one of his early books and enjoyed it, but noticed some issues here and there, then I read another book he wrote years after that and there was a night and day difference. He had improved dramatically.
Sanderson shocked me once with something he said. When asked what he liked to read, he responded that he doesn't have time to read, because he's too busy writing. To me, reading is maybe 50% or more of how to write well. I think writers SHOULD read a lot to learn what works and what doesn't. When I read Way of Kings, his lack of reading was apparent. To me, Way of Kings seemed like a zero draft. It felt that it was something that he needed to just get all his ideas on the page, and several rewrites later it would be about 600 pages shorter. It felt stale and painfully repetitive.
This would not be so irritating to me if his books averaged 3 out of 5 stars or so and if people held him to the same standard as other writers. For me, Way of Kings was a 1/5 stars, but I'd be fine with 3/5. The fact that he has 5 stars across the board and you have to dig to find anything but shining praise about his work confuses me. One thing that drives me crazy with his readers is that I see a lot of them defending poor quality writing by doing the "that's SUPPOSED to be like that. You just aren't clever enough to grasp it," angle. For instance, when he has repetitive passages going over the same internal monologues over and over and over again his fans might say, "well, the character has depression. It's supposed to feel boring, whiny, repetitive, and annoying. You must not understand mental health issues."
If that was intentional, then it was a mistake on his part. If you're making a commercial entertainment product that you intend for the masses to consume as a way to pass time, the very last thing you should do is to intentionally make them feel bored and frustrated that they're wasting their time. Maybe this is not being very charitable, but I think his books sell so well with certain demographics that he's allowed to get away with a lot of mistakes and then his fans will claim they were intentional and that people who have legitimate criticism of his work are 'haters.' Or booktubers will, as a joke, cherry pick 1 star reviews that say things like "Sanderson sucks ass," and insinuate that any bad reviews he gets are illegitimate. Another thing they sometimes do is signal to what a nice and friendly guy he is, as if to shame people away from criticizing his writing as if he needs to be sheltered from constructive criticism.
I also find his characters very 1 dimensional and stale. They are like Mary Sues. They will have a character that is constantly sad because he raced into a burning building 10 years ago to save 100 orphan kids, but he can't forgive himself because he didn't have time to go back in and rescue one of their goldfish before the building collapsed. After hundreds of pages of this, it pisses me off and I begin to root against the character. It's filler, and like I said before, that's what revisions SHOULD be for. That's what reading a lot would help him with. I think a lot of his fans enable him to not actually improve his writing and he's mega influential with young people who also want to become writers, so they will learn the worst possible habit of a budding writer: to deflect constructive criticism and revisionist history your own intent behind your writing. Teaching them to be like, "No, Sanderson does that but it's part of his style and he gets nothing but 5 star reviews except for trolls." It's also going to deter readers who have a bias already against fantasy, to think, "this is the master of this genre? I'll go back to my other genres, then."
I know I've already written an essay, but I could go on for days about how I feel about his writing. I'll just stop. And if you made it all the way to the bottom of this tirade, thanks for letting me waste your time. I felt like getting this off my chest. I don't ever write reviews or anything of books, but this one just made me want to for whatever reason.
Another person who has a lot to say about some books they didn’t read
What would you consider a 5 star book?
Yes, in some genres the ratIngs can't be trusted. Glad to find someone that agrees That Way of Kings isn't a top tier book... With all the praise for it I was starting to think I was crazy...
I will defend my boy Brando Sando until the end haha
Agreed. Those are all bad reasons to cast shade on Sanderson.
Here are my main objections though after listening once through the audio books for most of his novels.
1. In The Lost Metal (Mistborn 7), Sanderson throws in a homosexual side character and indicates both Wayne and the society endorse such a lifestyle. He doesn't even suggest there's any moral issue there.
2. Many of the themes in Sanderson's books and Investiture in particular reduce to meta-references to the writing process itself. Thus, instead of escapism, and exploring into deep truths of life itself through the fiction, I find myself reading about reading. Too much to cover here.
3. In The Empiror's Soul, Sanderson solidifies what he hints at with Shallan: the Mary-Sue protagonist actually creates a freaking fake human soul better than the real one. That is absurd and harmful violates some basic moral principle. She's also a Mary-Sue.
4. Overall, something about his writing style makes the world building--which he admits is a hollow iceberg--feel transparently so. I don't believe Carbronth is what he wants us to feel it is. I don't believe you could carve out a seal that specific in some rock, whatever the heck kind of marks she was chiseling in there I don't even know. It feels too hollow.
I actually didn’t know people hated him 😂 I’ve only met people who either don’t know him or love him
He’s such a likeable person which make me want to support him
Damn that hat did not work at all Brandon 🤣 That footage must be from 10 years ago
Personally, I find his prose very bland, his character arcs predictable, his formulaic writing (the abhorrent "Sanderlanche") grating and predictable, and the actual content of his books half baked.
On top of that, I find his cult fandom insufferable. They just can't seem to accept that he isn't the first and last word in epic fantasy, that his work isn't so complex readers give up because "they don't get it", his ideas aren't fresh or innovative, and that it's fine to just agree to disagree.
I'm glad Sanderson is for many readers what Robin Hobb, Tad Williams, Dennis L McKiernan and Robert Jordan are for me, but the ridiculous overexposure of this man is grating. It would be fine if the fans and booktubers could just relax hyping him at every opportunity for five minutes.
Is he a terrible writer? Clearly his work is phenomenal to a lot of readers. But for me, it's not anything special. And I say that with respect to all who are openly massive fans who can accept I simply don't like him
I think it might just be overhype. In the fantasy community, hes kind of seem as the top author. And if you go into a book knowing how beloved an authors books are and you just cant get with them, it can get a bit annoying constantly hear people hyping him up.
I think you friends arguments about the Kickstarter were pretty weak tbh. You could just get the digital versions and not worry about shipping. He did say that the books would end up being published for the public, but the premium hardcovers may not be. Finally, he did streams on his RUclips channel outlining each secret project
Personally I think many of these criticisms are strengths to Sanderson’s works.
I love the prose. I don’t need to be in the bedroom or wherever else with them for the “adult fun”. The magic system is phenomenal and incredibly well thought out. I appreciate that he’s not a hermit and responds to questions and talks about the cosmere with people who love spending time in his universe.
Although I love the cosmere, I never totally understood the kickstarter thing. So those books WON’T be published more broadly? Only to kickstart supporters?
Brandon has stated that he intends to get them out to people eventually, likely in e-book formats relatively soon after the end of the year and printings a while later. He hasn't given any details but if you go and watch any Q&As around the time of the launch he was very open that this was not an exclusive thing.
I’m pretty sure he’s said that the kickstarter books will be available almost immediately in all formats as soon as all backers have received their physical copies.
Problem of sanderson the Fans very very intenst
And here I am trying to find any and every other author that writes like him.
It’s great to hear that you are a Christian, praying for you! ❤
Thank you!
Adult fun in fantasy was never a thing for me. It has no place in there. It doesn't add to the story. The Cosmere is full of morally grey characters. Rashek for example appears evil on the surface yet he did all he could to save the world. I like his style. And he does finish what he starts unlike G.R.R. Martin and Patrick Rothfuss.
*His prose is intentionally simple, therefore you can’t criticize it for being simple*. Um no? Listen I love Sanderson, he’s in my top 5 favorite authors, but when you’re literally a *writer* having simple prose is a drawback and it’s ok to acknowledge that and not liking his books because of that is 100% valid. This video as a whole has a strong “I’m right, you’re wrong” vibe.
The problem I have with his clear glass approach is that literature is by definition about words.
I don’t see how nice writing is supposed to be a drawback, according to Sanderson.
@@theatheistbear3117 it’s like if a movie had bad cinematography on purpose. I’m not saying you can’t do interesting things with the concept but it’s not like you can just apply that to a normal movie and expect no one to notice. Same with books, if the plain prose serves a narrative purpose I can buy it but just saying “it makes it easier to read” doesn’t do it. I mean i’ve never read a book that’s been hurt by having good prose and good prose by definition should be able to easily get the point across and it doesn’t need to be barebones and repetitive to do so.
@@invaderzod8092 Exactly. It’s like making movies only in Shot-Reverse Shot scene compositions.
@@lkay398 Writing is not all subjective.
Spending three pages on setting the scene, and rambling, is not nice writing. You need to be concise without being boring.
Even by workmanlike prose standards Sanderson is just incredibly dry.
@@theatheistbear3117 How is writing not subjective lol. There is no writing in the world that MUST be accepted as 100% or 100% bad. Everybody is gonna have a preference...
I love Brandon Sandeson but there are two things I am starting to hate.
The first is the amount of drama. Stormlight archieves suffers from this. There is to much focus on the characters and not enough on the plot. It makes the story slow and at times tedious (at least for me)
My second problem is that the world ALWAYS has to be in danger. It gets in the way of many other good stories. I would have loved to see the first mistborn trilogy be about building a kingdom and handling enemies rather than a world end scenario.
But these things are very subjective. I prefer stories that are plot driven rather than character driven (like LotR). Still love Sanderson though :D
Bro His straightforward/easy to follow writing is what makes people outside Europe or people who are not that fluent in English get into fiction
Number one reason why people hate Sanderson:
They salty
I agree with you. I love Sanderson's writing style, and the fact that he keeps love scenes private. I thought that it was great that he wants something apart from sex as a way to bond two characters. He understands how important the concept of need is.
I forgot to add that I enjoy how organized his stories are. Also, all of his magic systems are unique, and which means that when I listen to one of his books, I will always learn something new.
I agree with you 💯💯
I certainly don't hate the man, but a number of years back I started reading The Way of Kings because I knew there were only two books in the Stormlight Archive series and I thought it would be interesting to get in close to the ground floor, and then follow the series to the end of the planned 10 books. Well, I just wasn't very into the characters or story and bailed after a few hundred pages. Plus, I am a slow reader and his books are just too long.
I dont hate sanderson. Hell, i LOVE the Mistborn books! And his "basic" writing style is like comfort food for me. Cant get enough. No, my ONLY beef with Sanderson is him absolutely SCREWING UP THE WHEEL OF TIME!!!😂 (for real though, he really did wreck the whole thing)
I've only read the mistborn trilogy. I disliked it as it seemed simplistic, the characters were stock, and there was too much Mormon influence. It didn't appeal to me.
So it just comes down to personal taste? I mean, I don't like Charles Dickens or Gaston Leroux because I find their writing style to be overly pretentious, in my opinion, but it's not my taste in fiction so I won't go on a holy war to make a case that they're the worse. They're great authors for a reason because so many people do enjoy their writing, but I'm just not one of them. Same with Brandon Sanderson, I just started Mistborn (really what you considered as the Cosmere in general) and I really love it, including its magic system. I'm actually surprised a lot of people don't like Sanderson, but hey, not every fantasy has to be nuanced or "dark." Much like not every fantasy has to have a deus ex machina as its magic system.
The cinematic imagery is my biggest critique of Sanderson's work. I don't find it fun or engaging because I'm not interested in reading a movie, and if I was there are plenty of novelizations of movies that exist. It's distracting, annoying, and unnecessary.
With that being said, when I was getting back into reading some years ago Mistborn was one of the first series I got my hands on and has swiftly become of one my favorites (currently in the process of finishing Era 2 after putting it off for so long). While I'll admit that Sanderson is no Tolkien, he makes the genre incredibly accessible and creates enough layers that make you want to pick up the series a second time to see things fall into place.
My problem with his writing is that he can be redundant about things that are not important to the plot. I don’t mind easy and accessible, it’s that like 3-4% of his writing where he is redundant or he tells, then tells, then shows. In that order. But again that’s within the 3-4%. The rest of his writing is fine. I Elantris and the amount of times he talked about the main girl’s height was ridiculous. I get it when she’s first introduced to the reader then to the other characters. But it was overkill and it made me very upset. Other than that and how tell tell show that happend a couple times I really enjoyed the book. I mean I sat there and read it for hours and hours wanting to see how it ended. Although I wasn’t surprised I still enjoyed watching it come all together. Despiste my disdain for that 3-4% I will continue reading his stories and hope that he improves over the years.
I have the original Mistborn trilogy and the Stormlight Archives on the tbr but am hesitant/in no rush to read them. I feel book tubers in general just gush over his stuff, gives off weird vibes ("No you don't get it Sanderson is the BEST"). And hearing his books are a lot of down the middle prose with down the middle characterization just doesn't really excite me as a reader. Based on no actual facts on my end but is it the plot and the world that appeals to people? I feel I want to check out some newer series rather than dedicate myself to 4 series by Sanderson that are at least 5 books each.
I'm not a hardcore fan of Sanderson, but it seems that a lot of people really like his magic systems and worldbuilding, which are cool. And the fact that the Cosmere has an over-arching story with recurring characters that are hidden throughout the different series, which makes the books very re-readable if you want to search for these crossovers. As to his characters, I've heard people call them really deep, but personally, while I wouldn't call any I've read so far flat, some are better written than others. In Warbreaker, for example, I adored one of the main characters, was dissapointed that the second main character never had the internal struggle Brandon seemed to be setting up (a reveal half-way kind of helped, but didn't fully work, for me; it was especially dissapointing since I liked the character and was excited for where I thought Brandon had hinted he was taking her), and the third was compelling in the beginning but got a little hard for me to believe in; again, some shifts in the middle made her a little better. And I personally find his prose hard to read; simple can be fine, but Brandon tends to repeat words and not reach far with his descriptions. If you're a seasoned fantasy reader, I'd try Way of Kings first because its both a later book with (for me) more readable prose and it shows you the world more than telling you about it like some of his earlier books. Disclaimer: I've only read Warbreaker and started Way of Kings.
@@StarlitSeafoamI sort of agree. Tbh the original mistborn characters I think are the best, most developing and are the dearest to me. Even the secondary characters
How could anyone hate hard magic? That's the best part about newer fantasy. The number of times I've rolled my eyes because a protagonist suddenly discovered or casually pulled out a "get out of jail free" card puts me off of a lot of classic fantasy. In fact, I'm reading Malazan now and it's full of these scenarios.
I also don't know why anyone would have thought the kickstarter books wouldn't be released later. I just assumed you'd get them cheaper if you pledged, which is generally how kickstarters work. You get a deal for being in on the kickstarter, but if the goal is matched, and the product is made, it goes to market. That's the whole idea. He also discussed how he felt uncomfortable using the kickstart platform because he didn't feel it was meant for things like that.
Haters gonna hate.
To be honest, I don't have any problem with Sanderson . I'm a new guy to fantasy. And I'm excited to jump into his books 🔥
First, I think you're conflating disliking or simply not loving Sanderson's writing with "hating" either the writing or the author. That's the worst sort of false dichotomy. Now, to address specific points:
1) The fact that an author does what he is intending to do has nothing to do with whether it's reasonable to dislike that thing. Leaving aside the most inflammatory examples, look at James Joyce. It's completely reasonable to dislike Ulysses because of the way it is written even though Joyce clearly intended to do exactly what he did. As it happens, I prefer invisible writing, but that doesn't mean that criticizing writing for being invisible is invalid.
2) Much the same applies to your next several points. If you don't like those elements of Sanderson's writing, that's not somehow a flaw in you. Taste is taste, and it varies. Suffice to say that for me, I mostly don't care about any of those things: Cinematic writing is fine when it's done well, I like my protagonists to be heroes (even when flawed), I don't have a problem with either explicit sexual content or its lack.
3) Sanderson does hard-ish magic, but he was not the first, nor does he do it particularly better than others (see Lyndon Hardy or Randall Garrett for earlier hard magic systems that I like better, for instance). In fact, I was rather annoyed by one element in Mistborn (balancing on a single point using a push, which is essentially impossible). Hard magic is great when it's done well, so is soft magic, and so is something in between. Note that Mistborn has a hard magic system, then mostly abandons it for the protagonists, who have all the powers, and oh yeah, there are all those other powers that show up when convenient. But Sanderson's ability to develop new and interesting magic systems is actively a plus.
4) Too popular? That can actually be an issue. When all the conversation revolves around a single subject (see also Cthulhu, zombies, vampires, whatever at various times), it can be tiresome. As it happens, I don't particularly care in this case, but I can see why others might. i will say that going into a read with the hype that surrounds Sanderson's books can be actively detrimental to enjoyment. If you're expecting diamond-like brilliance and you get something that is only solid fantasy, it's really easy for that disappointment to affect your opinion of the books.
5) As for the Kickstarter project, I suspect it brought in a bunch of people to that platform who weren't used to its numerous flaws. As a serial project backer who didn't back Sanderson's project, that project looked really quite well run from the outside. But disliking the experience is fair, even if it wasn't atypical for that place.
I'm not a Sanderson fan, but nor am I a Sanderson hater. I've read seven (?) of his books, mostly before he was a BNA. And I haven't had a particularly good experience with any except for Skyward, which was a solid 4-star book for me. The rest have been 3-ish star reads and broadly indistinguishable from many other such reads. In a world where there is a functionally infinite variety and number of books, my problem is that I don't find his work particularly compelling. I certainly don't hate his work (though I did actively dislike Elantris), I just don't care that much. To be fair, I didn't much like his books in WoT, but that was a result of WoT being dreadful, not his work at its end. (Do I hate Jordan's work? Horrible characters in a generic world that goes on, and on, and on, and on, and.... What's not to hate?)
I haven’t even watched the rest of the video but reason 1 is the primary reason I can’t get into Sanderson. His style choice just isn’t for me. I’ve tried but it just doesn’t work for me. I’m glad others can enjoy it though. I don’t hate him but his fans also turn me off. Prose that I personally find bland and the fans I’ve come across just makes me pass on his work.
If you take an average of people who have heard his name, the ratio of Love/Hate its maybe 70/30. But if you take the people who actually read the books, I would estimate it around 90/10 Love/Hate.
Honestly, it's chumps that dislike his politics. Me? I'dc what he does outside of fantasy...i rarely see people actually shit talking his writing.
Who dislikes reading heroes. I'm currently working on my fantasy novel and I love writing heros that actually match my moral standing and whom I and everyone can look up to. Imagine Aragorn for example, yes it's necessary to add internal struggle, temptations and hard choices but why does a protagonist have to be like Jaime Lannister and Idk what does people even want to read in fantasy these days why would you like to have explicit scene. What is it dark romance? I share similar values with you too on this as a Muslim this is against my moral standing but then again don't we see that kind of stuff everywhere these days anyway. Everything have become an indirect porn. So it's refreshing to see purer romances. One of many reasons why I love Tolkien is specifically these above two.
I've only read Storm Light so I know I have a scewed view of his writing. I enjoy him as a person and adore the lecture videos, but I can not stand storm light. Dreadfully boring at points, infuriating at others, and uses tropes ineffectively. There are good moments, but I just can't find any enjoyment in the overall picture being painted.
For me, the pygmy elephant in the room is George Martin.
Apparently everyone still judges how fantasy should be because of him. Grey characters and a lot of "adult fun" scenes with some of the worst descriptions I've ever read.
The other reason seems to be his success coupled with the fact that he is a Christian has invariably attracted this small legion of haters. I'm not a Christian, but I couldn't care less that he is one.
The rest of the reasons to indicate that he is "bad" as a writer sounds like excuses.
Sanderson’s redundant prose sometimes take me out of the story, and for that I do critique him. Still enjoy his books though
Because we have read his book. He’s a simp and so is his characters. All is books about being clever and not about storytelling.
He certainly has his own style, and that is a style that was designed to appeal to the masses. People who normally don’t read, or read often. I agree with the prose critique. I think he over explains things to the point where Reading unnecessary pages trying to figure out why he assumes I wouldn’t remember something he’s already mentioned 5 times. Also, the characters are in depth, and it is the authors job to create a relationship with the characters, but it felt more as if I was just a helpless therapist watching the characters work through the same issues to an almost exhausting point. I felt forced to watch 5 different POVs grow up. I’ve already grown up, I’d rather not witness people struggle with issues that don’t make sense to me. They didn’t feel real because of this, because any real person would have long since dealt with a lot of the issues they r go through. (Except jasnah, she is proof he is entirely capable of writing good characters, so I know it’s a choice and not a skill issue). And overall, it just felt very repressed. Every single aspect, from the violence, romance, the concept of “war” felt repressed, and juvenile. It didn’t feel real. And your argument to that May be, “it’s a book, it’s a fantasy, it’s not supposed to feel real” …
Well, yes it is. The actions and behaviors of the characters, you certainly want to be real, otherwise it’s just unrelatable and annoying. Overall, he’s a great story teller, and his pacing is good, but his books can certainly be 200 pages shorter. Easily
Maaybe because he supports transgender legislation, which harms kids? He is bit repetitive.