Yea especially the big locomotives, they would cost a fortune to restore, which is why we usually go for the smaller engines. Plus maintenance would be a hassle, and unfortunately there too many people who don’t know how to maintain even a regular car, let alone a steam engine. Not everyone is the fat controller.
It would be interesting if some billionaire was to get the bright idea to open something similar to amtrak but run with steam locomotives of several different models. Sadly nobody's pocket is that deep not only for the insurance but just the infrastructure alone. I can't imagine what it would cost to install water and fuel towers. Could it be done not likely as stated in the video but if someone wanted to open a railway with a fleet of brand new built NYC Hudson locomotives. I would 100% put an application in.
Not only that but you also have to Modernize the Locomotives Not to mention You Need Extra permissions from the Railroad Giants to run Excursion Passenger trains on their tracks
I know I've mentioned this before, but if there's one steam locomotive that I want to see operating again in the modern day, it's Northern Pacific 328. There are numerous reasons as to why I want to see her running again. One reason is that 328 is an excursion star; she ran excursion trains from 1981 to 2001 (but she's incredibly obscure compared to other locomotives like N&W 611, SP 4449, and UP 4014), and her revenue service lasted from 1907 all the way to 1950 (43 years)! Another reason why I want to see her running again is because my Great-Great Grandfather drove her when he worked on the Northern Pacific Railway as an engineer. My Grandfather and Uncle also sat in the cab of 328 on separate occasions, so 328 is in my blood. Currently, Northern Pacific 328 is sitting on static display at the Jackson Street Roundhouse in St. Paul, Minnesota, but I hope that she's restored to operation again in the future.
The whole reason we have Pierre Marquette, 1223 is because originally they wanted to scrap her for parts to put 1225 back into operation. That did not go unchallenged
IJN Mikasa was actually placed in a concrete structure right by the water. Unfortunately the type of concrete Japan used turned out to be acidic. Since there's barely anything left of the bottom hull, the ship has no choice but to remain inside the structure.
In restoring both steam locomotives and ships: money is one thing, asbestos exposure, removal and disposal is another. Even diesel locomotives utilized asbestos for oil seals, insulation, etc. Also, there's removal lead based primers/specialty undercoats.
They are doing that to the one here in Sioux City, Iowa. The locomotive is at the Sioux City Railroad Museum and it is an old G.N.R.R. #1355 Which it is a 4-6-2 locoomotive that runs on oil. It was announced in July
Colorado Railroad Museum’s oldest locomotive physically cannot be restored to working order, as its boiler is cast iron and would be unsafe to fire are all these years.
Well it comes down especially in these days (at least in return to operational steam restorations in the U.S.) whether there is a place to run it. Unfortunately we are currently at the ultra corporate era of U.S. railroads that many of the owners are more interested in quarterly revenue over about everything else. The cost of insurance, the means to find a host railroad etc, whether the locomotive needs to cross over class 1 railroads, etc. I feel the most worthwhile settings for steam running are at railroads that own their own trackage at least until many of the current business practices change, which as with everything else ebbs and flows.
I was guilty of wanting more steam locomotives restored when I was younger. But of course, I've already come to the realization that bringing back steam is crazy expensive. I'm just glad that the steam locomotives are still in existence, like N&W 1218, GN 2584, and many more non-operational ones that are on display or stored.
The biggest problem with restoring a GG1 is not the PCBs in the transformers, that is actually a minor issue. The transformers can be replaced with modern, non PCB ones. The main problem is the cast steel articulated wheel sets all have stress cracks. It would cost a fortune to recast and refabricate the running gear.
@@fanofeverything30465 Frame fatigue, incompatible voltages, likelihood of them allowing a locomotive that they do not own on the NEC is slim to none (And Slim just caught the last train for the coast)...do I really need to go on?
Honestly, your point about hiring/recruiting people to undertake such a project is spot on. My employer has a fleet of 6 active steam engines, keeping people around that one can do the work, and two, know how to do the work is a never-ending challenge. Your typical rail fan does not always make the best employee. At the end of the day, yes trains are cool, but were here to do work. A lot of guys that come though just want to run and play with the engine, they don't want to cut out tubes, or staybolts, or grind sheets to a fit. Very few people want to do the hard work that comes with restoring an engine. They want to do the paint, or polish the builders plates, or put the whistle on. Which are yes, important steps, but more towards the end of the struggle. I have seen applicants come though that just decided one day they wanted to work on trains, had no mechanical skills whatso ever, and came in with a cocky attitude. They didn't last long. I've also had guys with limited experience jump right on in and own the work thrown their way, but were pretty humble about their lack of skill. They last longer.
Well said. As part of the group whose cosmetically restoring Dardanelle and Russellville #9 at Mid-Continent Railway Museum in North Freedom, WI, it is a ton of work and money. Granted, we only sandblasted and repainted the cab and part of the boiler but it was $7000 just for the materials. And #9 is a tiny locomotive (2-6-0) compared to most anything out there.
The most aggravating is the class 1s banning steam. Here in the southeast the 2 class 1s (CSX, NS) do not run excursions anymore. Once upon a time the NS steam program ran 611 and 1218, 4901 and others in the past. In Atlanta area the New Georgia Railroad ran short trips circling Atlanta and running to Stone Mountain (on CSX) and UGA football games. The Southeastern Railroad Museum had 2 Pacifics and an E8 running and had restored passenger cars on these and on the NS steam excursions. Bang. Happy times are over. Now abandoned tracks obtained by museums or other operators are the only places to see preserved locomotives. UP and RBM are the only true mainline steam operators. If mainline steam is returned, there are some well preserved locomotives that can be restored to operation near Atlanta.
If you can build a new steam locomotive from the ground up, it's difficult to declare something as too far gone. It really does boil down to reason #1 money, it's expensive to keep them running even after restoration, but taking something from scrap or even museum condition costs way more. In the UK 2 were completed this year, and 18 others since 2000.
Im a big fan of your show. Living in SW Roanoke Virginia we are crazy about trains! There’s been a bit on controversy at the VA museum of transportation here lately. If you could shed some light on the subject, I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for your time!
2:52 Salt water doesn't hate _all_ metals, but it does hate a bunch of them, and it _especially_ hates iron. (Disregard lithium and the alkali metals like sodium and potassium for now -- _all_ water hates thse, not just salt water.) One of the forever maintenance items alluded to is replacing sacrificial anodes, which are made of metals the salt water prefers to attack and so they corrode instead of the hull's iron, but once they corrode away completely, then the salt water goes right back to attacking the iron.
Also of note about the GG1’s, per information from the lovely volunteers at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, just about every remaining preserved GG1 has well into the multiple millions of miles. This not only takes its toll on moving components, but their frames as well. As I understand it from the volunteers, by the tail end of the GG1’s career, locomotives were routinely being brought into the shops to repair and reinforce the numerous cracks throughout their frames. To get a GG1 running today would not only require a full new electrics suite, but would need an entirely new frame as well, as the old frames are no longer within a repairable state, a problem that plagues many steam locomotives as well…
What you tell is spot on. It's a similar situation here in Europe. There are always more regulations and standards to comply with if running on the mainline, space is at a premium and parts can be difficult, even when it is a diesel. You mentioned the PCBs in the GG1, these PCBs are contained in the form of a coolant oil in the transformer, and the transformer will most likely been drained before a locomotive goes into a museum, just because the hazard risk in case a leak forms is so great. Same goes for asbestos, which was largely used in old locomotives of all types. Often, but not always, asbestos has been removed. In case you got a vehicle which still contains the asbestos it is a very costly procedure to have it removed by a specialised company, the preserved railway I'm on had to sell a diesel railcar because it was just too costly to have its asbestos removed.
Next you should make a video explaining why certain locomotives can’t go certain places lol, stuff like Big Boy at Strasburg, Big Boy on the Horseshoe Curve, 611 on Cajon Pass, etc.
We are to a point now where there is hardly anyone left who really remembers steam locomotives in daily operation. More may have some fleeting memories when they were children, but by and large anyone under 70 has only seen them in museums and on excursions.
I do think it wouldn’t be bad to have a large quantity of smaller steam locomotives in operation. Preferably something that was really common and still fairly common. If you have a surplus of functional steam locomotives in a garage somewhere, you have an emp proof, non-fossil-fuel-reliant source of transport that can ship goods for say, an end of the world wartime scenario.
@@VinnyMartello interestingly during the Cold War Russia stored at least hundreds of steam locomotives to be kept as backups. Most of their lines were electrified at the time however should the Cold War have escalated and the power knocked out they could simply bring out these steam locos to fill in for their more modern units at the time. However after the Cold War the locos were no longer needed and were just left to rust with many still existing. However if things had escalated this would’ve actually worked well.
I NEVER thought a Big Boy would roam the earth again. The money and knowledge and time and machining and tooling seemed insurmountable. Yet one lives again to see another day! Dare to dream big, my freinds.
Yea having a locomotive that old would be very risky, I mean sure I would like to see the original John Bull run again, but that engine is like 200 years old, so I personally think it’s better to have the duplicate ones run than attempt to fix an ancient locomotive. Plus parts would be much harder to make. Now (admittedly this one is somewhat personal) I think it’s somewhat unfair comparison but if we had up 3985, that engine would be much easier to restore because it’s more modern, though they are restoring that one.
It has to make economic sense for a Class 1 railroad or heritage railroad to bring a locomotive back to life. Most of the time all we can hope for is to halt the deterioration and cosmetically restore it. Perhaps in the future then it can be restored to operational condition. I personally would like to see SP 4294 Cab Forward, C&O 490 streamlined Hudson, NYC 2933 Mohawk (partly as a stand in for the extinct J3 Hudsons) to running condition. I would also like to see one GG1 restored to running condition. But those are dreams. I just have to "settle" for the brand new T1 to be built.
All the others except the GG1’s would be more likely due to the fact that the surviving GG1’s are worn out with their frames being welded together and they run on different current than newer engines.
@@ryancampbell4119 I would think the frames of the GG1s can be reinforced to some degree and as for voltage differences transformers can be used as adaptors. Any components that have deteriorated could be replaced with modern versions that operate like the originals or make replicas. Yes it could be expensive but so is reviving a steam locomotive
I feel like you’ve Baldwin and Lima and Alco we’re still around and there was a lot of government assistance to preservations. I feel like not all steins would be preserved or build, but a few of them would.
What if somebody founded a company in the modern day that specializes, exclusively, in manufacturing steam locomotives and parts (like the Johnston Locomotive Works)?
A couple of years before COVID, there was a grim realization among the preservation community that they had grossly erred by trying to save everything. In the end, so much was lost due to lack of funding, resources and manpower. Luckily, many museums began working together to concentrate their collections on certain themes or railroads. A lot of equipment and supplies were, and still are, traded around. It isn’t perfect but at least the effort is being made to focus resources better.
9:15 the only places I see old steam engines in regular daily use are at theme parks. Knott’s Berry Farm and Disneyland. They are large properties with dedicated machine shops and a staff of mechanics. Since they have millions of guests per year, they’re able to afford the expense. When I worked at Knott’s around 2007 I remember they purchased the Ward Kimball locomotive from WDW.
Frankly, you’d probably be best off, buying your own land, and laying your own track for a short line to run historic locomotives and other equipment on. Of course, that’s very expensive, but probably the best option.
@@michigandon I know that the Timber Heritage Association managed to do that next to the 1893 roundhouse in Samoa, California over recent years (I’m a member and have occasionally been involved in digging out old tie plates to use, and hammering a few of the spikes in, last year). We’ve been giving guests rides in our caboose #5, hauling and pushing it with our 44-ton diesel #101, back and forth along our line, and we plan to extend the line even more if we can find a track switch. We also plan to restore one of our Shays, #7, to run on the line.
There is another cost to rebuilding the steam engine now if there are plans to run it on the main lines... fuel types. Some areas in the United States do not allow coal burning steam locomotives to run under their own power, like California. Some locomotives could be retrofitted with oil burners but some locomotives rely on the charm that is the lumps of coal to even run or is very picky with the types of coal. The Flying Scotsman was relying on mostly Virginian Coal because it was similar to the Welsh Anthracite it burned back in the UK. The Talyllyn Railway is also running into coal troubles because the few operating mines that supply the right coal are closing down.
Actually, this is a problem across all heritage lines in the UK, as the Ffos y Fran open cast coal mine closed in 2022, and reserve stocks have now been used up, so coal is back on the agenda as a serious issue. We're sourcing it from as far away as Australia, but the economics of doing that just doesn't stack up.
The Big Boy is for the most part pushed around by the GE/EMD behind it. The GE/EMD also does all the braking. It is essentially a mobile static display.
@@billearl621 Incorrect. FYI, 4014 is indeed doing the pulling. In fact, they had 4014 pull against a diesel's dynamic brakes to simulate a heavy train for it one time. It even shoved a stalled freight train, and slipped its wheels to prove it.
4014 is pulling the train. Additionally, 4014 was recently equipped with PTC. With PTC, 4014 can go solo pulling freight trains. For passenger trains, 4014 only needs HEP.
Eh, it costed around 300k for snoqualmie to restore northern pacific 924. Switcher engines are typically the easiest which is why you see them on so many steam excursions nowadays
Restore the train in Oaks, PA. Yeah, I know it has been abandoned outside for decades and is 99% rust and 1% faded red paint, but RESTORE. Seriously, though. It amazes me that it is still there and the shopping centers were just built with the train cars marking the parking lot perimeter. They are worth checking out if you are in the area. They are in a public area, with no posted restrictions. That's the benefit of them being between a road and a public parking lot.
I love that you used the Santa Fe 3464 black and white film footage prominently in this video. That is because of the only superhudsons left in existence from the United States, the fastest locomotives in the world period, there is only one left and it's of that same class, it's sister locomotive 3463 at the Topeka fair grounds. That thing should be put into service again by BNSF And shatter the speed record once and for all. Then people would be paying many hundreds of dollars to go on that excursion train!
I recently saw a facebook group dedicated to getting the sole surviving PRR M1 back into steam. I don’t think they understand how big of a pipe dream it is.
@historyinthedark there might be a chance for madam queen to run again there's a group called madam Queen Restoration Society they said they're going to try to get Madame Queen to running again
When you think about how many locomotives there were at the turn of the century, from 1880 to 1930, all those steam locomotives, where did they go ? There were massive numbers of passenger trains all over America. Thinking about what it was like in the 1920s to the 1940s, you could get almost anywhere on a train. Let's say you lived in Round Lake NY, and you wanted to go to East Greenville PA You could take your suitcase and go to the train station in town, take one of the many daily D&H passenger trains You could take one to Mechanicville, or Scotia, or Albany, and you could take the D&H to Allentown via Binghamton, or through NYC, or Port Jervis, or you could take the NY Central, or the Penn Central, and you could take the Perkiomen branch out of Allentown and that line runs right through East Greenville. Many places had Whistle Stops On the Perkiomen branch people would get off in the middle of farm country Seeing how many double mains, triple and quad lines existed, it is crazy what happened On the Delaware and Hudson there was double track from Mechanicville all the way to Albany and in most of the towns and cities there were sidings that ran the length of the city In Cohoes they had sidings on each side and those sidings had sidings running to warehouses and businesses throughout the entire city Even in the 1970s, there were 4 tracks running the entire length of the city. Actually, as you drove over the Hudson River on the 112th st bridge, there was a double track that ran along the Hudson River from the Waterford train bridge to the Green Island train bridge Going up Ontario Street, you then crossed the D&aH Colonie Sub main line, 4 tracks, and continued up Ontario Street till it ran into Columbia St and you had to turn right. You passed under the D&H double track that was actually the same track that ran along the Hudson River. That track branched off the Colonie Sub at the North end of Waterford, and the train station was off that branch. It ran through the city and over the Mohawk River and through Peebles Island, over the Mohawk River again, and serviced the ship builders along the river, and the fuel storage tanks and warehouses along the Hudson, and crossed the Mohawk River again and entered Green Island and serviced Ford, and many other factories, and at the Troy-Green Island bridge, the line went in 4 directions, one going over into Troy, one going double track to Albany along the Hudson, and one going west, over 787 and that was double track and had a 4 way connection back to the Colonie Sub with a Wye, and also continued west, turning North. It severed many factories and warehouses through the upper part of the city. I remember as a kid, we drove from Troy, crossing the double track in Green Island, and went up the old Elm St and it was a high angle to get to the top of the Rt 32 Crossing, and we crossed the double track there, then crossed another high angle crossing of the D&H Colonie Sub 4 track mainline, and immediately crossed a single track siding that came off the junction of the Green Island spur that serviced Norlite, and then crossed the double track of the Troy-Green Island - Schenectady line. The line running through Watervliet, there was a double stack of the searchlight signals just before 23rd Street These faced both directions They were the approach holdout signals to keep trains from blocking 23rd Street, route 7 at that time. Just south of 23rd Street was an overhead signal tower called Northgate that was 4 tracks and entered the Menands Watervliet Arsenal yard At the South end of the yard was another overhead 4 track signal called Southgate There were a lot of crossovers throughout these control points Coming south from Mechanicville you had the XO tower and an array of signals at MP 20 on the Colonie Sub Then at MP 18 and 17 there were an array of signals for the sidings running to businesses and the crossover and holdout signals At MP 15 there was an automated signal in both directions for both tracks At MP 13 there were another set, and 12.1 were the signal array for the crossovers and the sidings feeding several chemical plants and warehouses At 10.7 and 10.8 there were another set of automated signals At 10.1 there was a set of control point signals and crossovers just north of the Waterford Cohoes train bridge At the station in Cohoes, there was a ship for repair and a yard and there were signal towers just north of the station and south of the station At 8.1 was an automated signal and a signal for the siding that feeds the papermill Then after crossing Elm St you could see the holdout signals just north of 23rd St. As soon as you got past them you saw Northgate and then Southgate Today, the CPO-17 control point signals remain as a holdout signal And the automatic signals at 15, 12, 10.8 are still there 8.1 was removed and replaced by automated signals at 8.5 The Northgate signal was replaced by a single signal That is CPO-5 and the other end of the yard has a control point CPO-4 and the track leading into the Albany yard had a Control point CPO-2 It is such a a huge difference between what existed in 1974 and what exists today. From 3 line and 8 tracks and 8 sidings now only 1 line with 1 track remains Seeing all the local jobs and the D&H moving box cars and tankers on and off sidings all day long and coal cars dumped onto the top of the concrete 45 degree hills and the coal pile up at the bottom and people would come every day with a pail of or a bucket or a wheel barrel or a truck and they would buy coal for the hot water heater and the pot belly stove Businesses like schools would have full time maintenance men who lived under the school in the boiler room There would be massive metal doors in the road and on the weekends a tractor trailer with an open bed and hydraulic ram would pull to the doors in the road, the driver would open these huge metal doors, and the ram would lift the back of the truck and the coal would dump into the ground, like a magic trick, this massive amount of coal would disappear Below the road there was a massive metal silo that was 5 stories high and there were steep stairs going down 4 stories to the basement In the basement was another door and you opened to a metal catwalk around a 3 story sub basement In the middle of the space was a massive boiler , like Freddy Krueger, these things were real, and they had an automated feeder for the coal, but they needed constant adjustments and they had massive steam pipes and hot water pipes and they were all coated with huge thick asbestos coverings The boiler had a metal pipe that connected to the chimney that ran up 7 stories from underground and up the side of the school and they usually ran it at night, and got the pressure and temperature up The school was very hot in the morning in the winter and as the day went on it got colder. By 3:30 it was below 60 degrees inside They only ran the boiler during the day if they had to. When it was sub zero, I remember coming in and I could see the massive cloud of black smoke and smell it and the soot was raining down making the snow all dirty It was a terrifying sight seeing this massive column of black sooty smoke just belching out the chimney under force It smelled like Hell and by the end of the day, you clothes were dirty and you came home and took a shower and all these pieces of coal would be all over your body, and in your hair. So much in your hair, it was like you poured a bucket of dirt in your hair. The shower would turn black from the coal The living space in the basement for the janitors, it had what are called " Butcher Showers " and they would use them to wash all the soot off their body and out of their hair. I knew a couple of janitors that got the jobs back in the 50s and they had no education, they were hired as apprentices when they were 20 and they lived in the basement, and they had hot plates and a fridge and they would take food from the cafeteria and had 3 meals a day they got for free. They basically lived rent free and had no expenses. One of the guys had worked for the school for 40 years and he retired, and had his pension, social security and most of the money he made he had in the bank and in stocks and he bought a new car and a house in Florida and he left in his new car and he lived a good retirement in Florida and he said he was happy to never see snow again.
It would likely cost hundreds of millions at the minimum. As well as paying off class ones to allow special excursions would be extremely difficult to persuade to allow to happen. We’d need a brand new modern steam locomotive facility to rebuild and restore all of them which you’d need millions of dollars for that and full time employees, build coal/oil/sand/watering towers everywhere which is millions more. In the end with how many steam locos that are still around sitting dead would by the end cost billion or more. Organizing that would be a nightmare.
I’m deadset on having the entire 700 mikado SP/TNO having them run all at once grapevine you’ve ruined my 771 with that atrocious paint scheme and not holding your end to restore to operations. All three 700’s in Texas are literally in “potential restoration” or 786 which doesn’t have a shop to rebuild and they literally took pieces and gave it to another sp train out there recently only 745 is running again. If my project/business succeeds I WILL BUY AND RESTORE 771 and bring her back where she is meant to run, on the Texas coast, Victoria-Bloomington-port lavaca, and rebuild the port on Connor branch and connect to port lacow by building over the late 1800’s indianola railroad, make the line for local farmers, citizens that are low income and would have alternative access to transportation, rebuild the early 1900’s port onconnor bathhouse hotel that was 400 rooms and was on a pier, build spurs out to the multiple hunting and fishing lodges and resorts, and build a couple sidings to take in class one car storage for additional revenue on top of serving farmers and the seafood industry by erecting seadrifts wharf once more with a large pier it goes into for 1900’s themed dances and balls. Likely would cost millions and would need state and likely federal grants. But it’s a genius choice and would be one of a kind to bring back a mix of modern and older rail operations with mixed passenger/freight and excursion trains.
I believe I read it was the GG1's rectifiers that were the main culprit for PCBs. I know they used to put them in transformers a lot so other electrical equipment of the era probably used it too.
@@thenekom AC motors. First PRR electrics to have DC motors were the Baldwin/Westinghouse demonstrators, which were rectifiers. The E44's had DC traction motors.
If i had this a bunch of money, I'll definitely save Southern Pacific 4460, Canadian Pacific 3101, GTW 6323, NKP 170 and Canadain Pacific 2341 and I'll say they should be donted to the RRHMA where now restoring UP 3985 and 5511, maybe just maybe the Railroading Heritage of Midwest America can run steam better, but hope for the best and I'll join them because I love steam locomotives and classic diesels and also I'll join the Illinois Railway Museum for mt life goal.
Personally, I'd love to see the ACL 1031 return to service, and operate on the A Line from Florence to Charleston. However, I can appreciate that it would take a king's ransom to restore her to operation again. Add to the fact that CSX would never allow a steam excursion on their mainline again.
While I would very much like to see every steam engine restored back to operation to do a mainline run again (at least once). However, with my mechanical background in cars, I know that's not going to be possible. I would at least like to see a cosmetic & structural restoration done on as many steam locos as humanly possible so they can keep being around for many more generations to see & touch.
@@colestrains1 Np. It's sad but it's true. Ironically in some cases it's better if they never run again due to not risking to lose it in an accident or god knows what.
While we can’t restore every engine I think we can at least cosmetically restore a majority of them or put them under cover. That would be better than letting them rust away outside
It is a basic fact that only a limited percentage of the steam locomotives that were built have been preserved in museums or restored to full operation. A lot of steam locomotives were cut up and sold as scrap metal at the end of their life. Some steam locomotives made it into museums and even a smaller number of steam locomotives were restored to full operation. Like this video points out, it takes a lot of money and a lot of work to restore a steam locomotive. I suspect that Union Pacific 4014 Big Boy was the most expensive to restore steam locomotive, because it is so large and has a lot of parts and components, which is much more than smaller steam locomotives. Also Union Pacific completely rebuilt their Steam Locomotive shop to handle the restoration of the Big Boy. Also Union Pacific was the only company that was in a position where they could restore a Big Boy Locomotive. If Union Pacific had not made the decision to restore a Big Boy the Union Pacific 4014 Big Boy would still to this day be on exhibit in Pomona California at the RailGiants Train Museum.
Well Nashville, Chattanooga and St.Louis #576 is currently undergoing restoration in Nashville after sitting in a city park since the 1950s. It has about another year of work needed after 4+ years of work. Johnny Cash featured it on an album cover. Something to think about Darkness.
Personally as much as I personally would like to see more big steam engines brought back to operation, I think it’s impossible because it’s not financially feasible and even if it was, where would we take it? We can’t just throw it on a tourist line because a lot of them aren’t made to handle heavy engines.
If you have the famous or infamous tilted number 8 on its side in your bank account... Well, even rusted out hulks of steam locomotives can be "saved", the question there is a matter of your definition of course. Truth is, with infinite funds, you can go on having stuff fabricated as you please, but these will be "new" parts and not original anymore. In a realistic world though where you have a finite amount of funds, you have finite possibilities.
i remember once a week they used to run a steam train down the bergen line in nj. it was awesome. everyone would gather down to the train tracks to see the train. it was so amazing. it was so loud and sounded so powerful. they havent done this in so many years. i remember the black smoke that came out of that thing was insane!! probably the reason they dont run it anymore.
now after watching this im deterimined to find out who was responsible for running that steam train every week like 30 years ago and try to get them to do it again!!
I think There’s a rumor around Illinois railroad museum about restoring PRR GG1 4927 to operating condition. If that’s the case I wish em good luck and hope they don’t die 😅
I heard a story a few years ago that they hooked a welder up to it and managed to make it move back and forth a few feet. But that story is probably exactly that.
On the restoration of a GG-1,add the difficulty of the change of voltage/frequency,of the current PRR/Antrak mainlines! Those engines were set up for 11,000 volts/25 cycle,and the mains are set up,now for 25,000 volts/60 cycle,industrial voltage! So basically,you'd have to re-engineer to a GG-2,outwardly PRR,inwardly GE E-44+,rectifer engines! Complicated,yes,but the trolley museums,at least don't have those headaches! Anyway,that part,you omitted,is crucial,for obvious reasons! Thanks for the economic lessons for the neophytes,and dreamers,! Thank you 😊😅! Thank you 😇 😊!
That part with the electrics really depends on where you are, as you said. And a lot of to old electric equipment was built bulletproof, so once you get the transformer (if necessary) sorted, the rest (if existing) should mostly work. It’s typically a combination of relays and heaters (resistors), which are components that are still in common use today
If I suddenly become a billionaire overnight, I’m going to commission an entirely accurate replica of some BLW locomotive from the 1890s. Except with modern metallurgy.
I'd commission a replica of the 1893 Empire State Express #999, complete with 86" drivers. Yes, modern metallurgy + roller bearings on all engine wheels. (After that's done, I'd do NYC class J Hudsons, in both conventional and streamlined versions!)
I'm just glad so many were saved and i can see them. I am also glad there are some many actually running. Here in florida we have 148 with us sugar and 1504 that was acquired in 2021 Not sure what the disposition is of the 1504 as far as restoration.
Says the my property I have some steam locomotives and Many PVR passenger cars behind me home it was a railway round house and workshop soo I'm fixing up some locomotives like a Hudson
Given the potential cost of restoring a GG1 (mostly having to do with properly disposing of the PCBs, lead paint and any asbestos), I have to wonder aloud if it would be less expensive to build a brand-new one from scratch.
I heard the $1Million dollar quote to restore a steam engine 18ish years ago.... So I'm calling B.S. $1.5Million each bud! I personal would love to see some of these big engines restored that are late examples of steam at it's knowledge zenith, and the fast examples. Like I want to see Burlington 3007, a 4-6-4 Hudson, restored but even at IRM which is the biggest Railroad museum in America, 3007 wouldn't be able to get to top speed on the track there.... and because of how big it it it would cause soooo much wear and tear on the tracks :( just smaller engines are more efficient for actual restoration to running capabilities.
IT IS POSSIBLE, the problem is it isn't PLAUSIBLE financially. I myself have plans that I cannot and will not say but they will change the face of railroading in North America FOREVER.
People forget these steam locos were serious tech for the day. I imagine restoring an F-16 in 2124. Yeah, the specific maintenance, skills & knowledge are uncommon today. They were the final, insanely refined & complicated machines developed over a century. As for re-engineing diesels, I say go for it, if it keeps it going.
IMO you should have some static display steam locomotives. Static display means more people can get in the cab and tour the locomotive without the worry of breaking it more.
This is why we have virtual simulators. With that you can literally run any steam locomotive you want, that is if that specific engine has been modeled for that said game. Like trainz for example
It would be too expensive to bring every single steam locomotive to operation because of money and logistic reasons. But we still should love and care about steam locomotives. Either they are on static display or in operational condition, they need to be preserved !
Anyone know how difficult it would be to acquire dormant rail lines from a class 1? For example Kentucky steam wants to get the EK division from CSX at some point What would they have to go through?
There is also the replica guys (and gals, there's a lot of self-described "wrench wenches"!) who make extinct locomotives come back from the dead. I love the idea of a "Clan" (both types! Not just "Hengist" but also the earlier Highland Railway 4-6-0 footsloggers (if you do "Excellent engines with one annoying flaw" again, that's a very good candidate, also it's designer, Chris Cumming is considered to be probably the nicest person to ever be CME of a major railway.)) And an L&Y class 8 and/or a GCR 9Q... but there I'd leave it!
I would like to apologize for opening a can of worms, and agree if you are passionate about restoring a locomotive go support your local loco, far too many have met the cutters torch post preservation...
Don't forget the morons that don't want these around due to the noise and smell etc. I n my area an excursion RR running on abandoned lines they purchased was forced to stop running due to the jerks in the town being upset at the noise and smoke. Mostly the noise as they had to blow the whistle/horn at crossings and the people were upset about that.
I’m confident I can restore AT&SF 5000, Darkness’s favorite locomotive. Plus, my friends want to restore locomotives too, like N&W 1218 and 2156, SP 4294 and 4460, and the NYC Mohawks.
@@JayTheTrainFan There’s no more Hudson’s left. My personal, I would love to see a Hudson, but what you’re basically saying is that you’d want to rebuild an ENTIRE 4-6-4 Hudson.
Simple it’s too expensive to bring all locomotives back to operation, sometimes you gotta pick one.
@@MrTragedious986 right I'll get the A1's, K2's E2's and whatever type of engine Percy, Henry, Toby and James are. What ones are you getting?
Yea especially the big locomotives, they would cost a fortune to restore, which is why we usually go for the smaller engines. Plus maintenance would be a hassle, and unfortunately there too many people who don’t know how to maintain even a regular car, let alone a steam engine. Not everyone is the fat controller.
It would be interesting if some billionaire was to get the bright idea to open something similar to amtrak but run with steam locomotives of several different models. Sadly nobody's pocket is that deep not only for the insurance but just the infrastructure alone. I can't imagine what it would cost to install water and fuel towers. Could it be done not likely as stated in the video but if someone wanted to open a railway with a fleet of brand new built NYC Hudson locomotives. I would 100% put an application in.
Not only that but you also have to Modernize the Locomotives Not to mention You Need Extra permissions from the Railroad Giants to run Excursion Passenger trains on their tracks
@@generalprincecodyhedgewolf2944 yea adding new tech would also be costly.
I know I've mentioned this before, but if there's one steam locomotive that I want to see operating again in the modern day, it's Northern Pacific 328. There are numerous reasons as to why I want to see her running again. One reason is that 328 is an excursion star; she ran excursion trains from 1981 to 2001 (but she's incredibly obscure compared to other locomotives like N&W 611, SP 4449, and UP 4014), and her revenue service lasted from 1907 all the way to 1950 (43 years)! Another reason why I want to see her running again is because my Great-Great Grandfather drove her when he worked on the Northern Pacific Railway as an engineer. My Grandfather and Uncle also sat in the cab of 328 on separate occasions, so 328 is in my blood. Currently, Northern Pacific 328 is sitting on static display at the Jackson Street Roundhouse in St. Paul, Minnesota, but I hope that she's restored to operation again in the future.
Trust me, I'm in the same boat. I'm a huge advocate for preservation of history & taking care of it.
This whole video basically justifies why 50’s EMD’s are the best thing for railfans. They’re streamlined beauties with tons of parts around.
Yep. And in Australia they didn't stop using them to this day. And then you have b class's in perseveration being used as a backup for steam.
I love the EMD'S.
The whole reason we have Pierre Marquette, 1223 is because originally they wanted to scrap her for parts to put 1225 back into operation. That did not go unchallenged
IJN Mikasa was actually placed in a concrete structure right by the water. Unfortunately the type of concrete Japan used turned out to be acidic. Since there's barely anything left of the bottom hull, the ship has no choice but to remain inside the structure.
In restoring both steam locomotives and ships: money is one thing, asbestos exposure, removal and disposal is another. Even diesel locomotives utilized asbestos for oil seals, insulation, etc. Also, there's removal lead based primers/specialty undercoats.
They are doing that to the one here in Sioux City, Iowa. The locomotive is at the Sioux City Railroad Museum and it is an old G.N.R.R. #1355
Which it is a 4-6-2 locoomotive that runs on oil. It was announced in July
Colorado Railroad Museum’s oldest locomotive physically cannot be restored to working order, as its boiler is cast iron and would be unsafe to fire are all these years.
Well it comes down especially in these days (at least in return to operational steam restorations in the U.S.) whether there is a place to run it.
Unfortunately we are currently at the ultra corporate era of U.S. railroads that many of the owners are more interested in quarterly revenue over about everything else.
The cost of insurance, the means to find a host railroad etc, whether the locomotive needs to cross over class 1 railroads, etc.
I feel the most worthwhile settings for steam running are at railroads that own their own trackage at least until many of the current business practices change, which as with everything else ebbs and flows.
I was guilty of wanting more steam locomotives restored when I was younger. But of course, I've already come to the realization that bringing back steam is crazy expensive. I'm just glad that the steam locomotives are still in existence, like N&W 1218, GN 2584, and many more non-operational ones that are on display or stored.
The biggest problem with restoring a GG1 is not the PCBs in the transformers, that is actually a minor issue. The transformers can be replaced with modern, non PCB ones. The main problem is the cast steel articulated wheel sets all have stress cracks. It would cost a fortune to recast and refabricate the running gear.
They were built more like a steam engine in that regard, lots of bespoke cast steel parts, including subframes.
That plus the fact that Amtrak would NEVER allow it back onto the NEC.
@@michigandon Why not
@@fanofeverything30465 Frame fatigue, incompatible voltages, likelihood of them allowing a locomotive that they do not own on the NEC is slim to none (And Slim just caught the last train for the coast)...do I really need to go on?
@@michigandon Thank you 😊
Honestly, your point about hiring/recruiting people to undertake such a project is spot on. My employer has a fleet of 6 active steam engines, keeping people around that one can do the work, and two, know how to do the work is a never-ending challenge. Your typical rail fan does not always make the best employee. At the end of the day, yes trains are cool, but were here to do work. A lot of guys that come though just want to run and play with the engine, they don't want to cut out tubes, or staybolts, or grind sheets to a fit. Very few people want to do the hard work that comes with restoring an engine. They want to do the paint, or polish the builders plates, or put the whistle on. Which are yes, important steps, but more towards the end of the struggle. I have seen applicants come though that just decided one day they wanted to work on trains, had no mechanical skills whatso ever, and came in with a cocky attitude. They didn't last long. I've also had guys with limited experience jump right on in and own the work thrown their way, but were pretty humble about their lack of skill. They last longer.
Well said. As part of the group whose cosmetically restoring Dardanelle and Russellville #9 at Mid-Continent Railway Museum in North Freedom, WI, it is a ton of work and money. Granted, we only sandblasted and repainted the cab and part of the boiler but it was $7000 just for the materials. And #9 is a tiny locomotive (2-6-0) compared to most anything out there.
The most aggravating is the class 1s banning steam. Here in the southeast the 2 class 1s (CSX, NS) do not run excursions anymore. Once upon a time the NS steam program ran 611 and 1218, 4901 and others in the past. In Atlanta area the New Georgia Railroad ran short trips circling Atlanta and running to Stone Mountain (on CSX) and UGA football games. The Southeastern Railroad Museum had 2 Pacifics and an E8 running and had restored passenger cars on these and on the NS steam excursions. Bang. Happy times are over. Now abandoned tracks obtained by museums or other operators are the only places to see preserved locomotives. UP and RBM are the only true mainline steam operators. If mainline steam is returned, there are some well preserved locomotives that can be restored to operation near Atlanta.
I'll simplify the reasons why.
1. Money.
2. Some are too far gone.
3. Many engines get scrapped before they get the chance to be saved.
2156 will NEVER run again and people need to accept that. Just be thankful at least one of them is still around at all
If you can build a new steam locomotive from the ground up, it's difficult to declare something as too far gone. It really does boil down to reason #1 money, it's expensive to keep them running even after restoration, but taking something from scrap or even museum condition costs way more. In the UK 2 were completed this year, and 18 others since 2000.
@@colestrains1Why
The whitewatervalley railroad just restored a lima hamilton. Now they have the only two functional lima hamiltons in the world.
Im a big fan of your show. Living in SW Roanoke Virginia we are crazy about trains! There’s been a bit on controversy at the VA museum of transportation here lately. If you could shed some light on the subject, I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for your time!
2:52 Salt water doesn't hate _all_ metals, but it does hate a bunch of them, and it _especially_ hates iron. (Disregard lithium and the alkali metals like sodium and potassium for now -- _all_ water hates thse, not just salt water.) One of the forever maintenance items alluded to is replacing sacrificial anodes, which are made of metals the salt water prefers to attack and so they corrode instead of the hull's iron, but once they corrode away completely, then the salt water goes right back to attacking the iron.
Also of note about the GG1’s, per information from the lovely volunteers at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, just about every remaining preserved GG1 has well into the multiple millions of miles. This not only takes its toll on moving components, but their frames as well. As I understand it from the volunteers, by the tail end of the GG1’s career, locomotives were routinely being brought into the shops to repair and reinforce the numerous cracks throughout their frames. To get a GG1 running today would not only require a full new electrics suite, but would need an entirely new frame as well, as the old frames are no longer within a repairable state, a problem that plagues many steam locomotives as well…
“And they’ll be there for generations to come!”
*Looks nervously at VMT*
What you tell is spot on. It's a similar situation here in Europe. There are always more regulations and standards to comply with if running on the mainline, space is at a premium and parts can be difficult, even when it is a diesel.
You mentioned the PCBs in the GG1, these PCBs are contained in the form of a coolant oil in the transformer, and the transformer will most likely been drained before a locomotive goes into a museum, just because the hazard risk in case a leak forms is so great. Same goes for asbestos, which was largely used in old locomotives of all types.
Often, but not always, asbestos has been removed. In case you got a vehicle which still contains the asbestos it is a very costly procedure to have it removed by a specialised company, the preserved railway I'm on had to sell a diesel railcar because it was just too costly to have its asbestos removed.
Next you should make a video explaining why certain locomotives can’t go certain places lol, stuff like Big Boy at Strasburg, Big Boy on the Horseshoe Curve, 611 on Cajon Pass, etc.
We are to a point now where there is hardly anyone left who really remembers steam locomotives in daily operation. More may have some fleeting memories when they were children, but by and large anyone under 70 has only seen them in museums and on excursions.
In the USA maybe, the last large scale mainline steam operations in Europe ended in the late 1980s (DDR, Poland etc)
"FILL THE LINES WITH BIG CHUNGUS!" and every Rail fan's inner child just cheered in unison.
I do think it wouldn’t be bad to have a large quantity of smaller steam locomotives in operation. Preferably something that was really common and still fairly common. If you have a surplus of functional steam locomotives in a garage somewhere, you have an emp proof, non-fossil-fuel-reliant source of transport that can ship goods for say, an end of the world wartime scenario.
@@VinnyMartello interestingly during the Cold War Russia stored at least hundreds of steam locomotives to be kept as backups. Most of their lines were electrified at the time however should the Cold War have escalated and the power knocked out they could simply bring out these steam locos to fill in for their more modern units at the time. However after the Cold War the locos were no longer needed and were just left to rust with many still existing. However if things had escalated this would’ve actually worked well.
I agree
I NEVER thought a Big Boy would roam the earth again. The money and knowledge and time and machining and tooling seemed insurmountable. Yet one lives again to see another day! Dare to dream big, my freinds.
There are some locomotives that should be left as museum pieces. Who would want to make the 199 year old Locomotion no. 1 'Active' to run again?
*cough* CGI Series Fat Controller *cough*
Yea having a locomotive that old would be very risky, I mean sure I would like to see the original John Bull run again, but that engine is like 200 years old, so I personally think it’s better to have the duplicate ones run than attempt to fix an ancient locomotive. Plus parts would be much harder to make. Now (admittedly this one is somewhat personal) I think it’s somewhat unfair comparison but if we had up 3985, that engine would be much easier to restore because it’s more modern, though they are restoring that one.
@jakeford12 nothing wrong with replicas. At least we'll know that the materials are sound.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Yea having clones of engines is a good thing, especially for old engines like the john bull.
I still have my dream for Frisco 1522, so I'm not giving up by a long shot. :T
It has to make economic sense for a Class 1 railroad or heritage railroad to bring a locomotive back to life. Most of the time all we can hope for is to halt the deterioration and cosmetically restore it. Perhaps in the future then it can be restored to operational condition. I personally would like to see SP 4294 Cab Forward, C&O 490 streamlined Hudson, NYC 2933 Mohawk (partly as a stand in for the extinct J3 Hudsons) to running condition. I would also like to see one GG1 restored to running condition.
But those are dreams. I just have to "settle" for the brand new T1 to be built.
All the others except the GG1’s would be more likely due to the fact that the surviving GG1’s are worn out with their frames being welded together and they run on different current than newer engines.
@@ryancampbell4119
I would think the frames of the GG1s can be reinforced to some degree and as for voltage differences transformers can be used as adaptors. Any components that have deteriorated could be replaced with modern versions that operate like the originals or make replicas. Yes it could be expensive but so is reviving a steam locomotive
I feel like you’ve Baldwin and Lima and Alco we’re still around and there was a lot of government assistance to preservations. I feel like not all steins would be preserved or build, but a few of them would.
What if somebody founded a company in the modern day that specializes, exclusively, in manufacturing steam locomotives and parts (like the Johnston Locomotive Works)?
Perhaps one day it will happen (wishful thinking I know 😄🚂
A couple of years before COVID, there was a grim realization among the preservation community that they had grossly erred by trying to save everything. In the end, so much was lost due to lack of funding, resources and manpower. Luckily, many museums began working together to concentrate their collections on certain themes or railroads. A lot of equipment and supplies were, and still are, traded around. It isn’t perfect but at least the effort is being made to focus resources better.
9:15 the only places I see old steam engines in regular daily use are at theme parks. Knott’s Berry Farm and Disneyland. They are large properties with dedicated machine shops and a staff of mechanics. Since they have millions of guests per year, they’re able to afford the expense. When I worked at Knott’s around 2007 I remember they purchased the Ward Kimball locomotive from WDW.
Frankly, you’d probably be best off, buying your own land, and laying your own track for a short line to run historic locomotives and other equipment on. Of course, that’s very expensive, but probably the best option.
And send the loco to the historic preservation companies that restore and test the boilers etc.
@@Low760Exactly.
And there have been a few traction/thresher groups in the country that have managed to do exactly that!
@@michigandon I know that the Timber Heritage Association managed to do that next to the 1893 roundhouse in Samoa, California over recent years (I’m a member and have occasionally been involved in digging out old tie plates to use, and hammering a few of the spikes in, last year). We’ve been giving guests rides in our caboose #5, hauling and pushing it with our 44-ton diesel #101, back and forth along our line, and we plan to extend the line even more if we can find a track switch. We also plan to restore one of our Shays, #7, to run on the line.
There is another cost to rebuilding the steam engine now if there are plans to run it on the main lines... fuel types. Some areas in the United States do not allow coal burning steam locomotives to run under their own power, like California. Some locomotives could be retrofitted with oil burners but some locomotives rely on the charm that is the lumps of coal to even run or is very picky with the types of coal. The Flying Scotsman was relying on mostly Virginian Coal because it was similar to the Welsh Anthracite it burned back in the UK. The Talyllyn Railway is also running into coal troubles because the few operating mines that supply the right coal are closing down.
Actually, this is a problem across all heritage lines in the UK, as the Ffos y Fran open cast coal mine closed in 2022, and reserve stocks have now been used up, so coal is back on the agenda as a serious issue. We're sourcing it from as far away as Australia, but the economics of doing that just doesn't stack up.
A C&O, N&W, PRR or Reading locomotive burning oil would be nothing short of pure, unadulterated Heresy.
The Big Boy is for the most part pushed around by the GE/EMD behind it. The GE/EMD also does all the braking. It is essentially a mobile static display.
@@billearl621 Incorrect. FYI, 4014 is indeed doing the pulling. In fact, they had 4014 pull against a diesel's dynamic brakes to simulate a heavy train for it one time. It even shoved a stalled freight train, and slipped its wheels to prove it.
4014 is pulling the train. Additionally, 4014 was recently equipped with PTC. With PTC, 4014 can go solo pulling freight trains. For passenger trains, 4014 only needs HEP.
Even a little switcher would probably cost half a million to restore.
Eh, it costed around 300k for snoqualmie to restore northern pacific 924. Switcher engines are typically the easiest which is why you see them on so many steam excursions nowadays
Still lot of money. But not an impossible amount of money.
No one can afford to restore every single steam engine ever constructed
Have you talked to a multi-billionare?
@@mrbyzantine0528 Elon Musk wouldn’t be interested
Restore the train in Oaks, PA. Yeah, I know it has been abandoned outside for decades and is 99% rust and 1% faded red paint, but RESTORE. Seriously, though. It amazes me that it is still there and the shopping centers were just built with the train cars marking the parking lot perimeter. They are worth checking out if you are in the area. They are in a public area, with no posted restrictions. That's the benefit of them being between a road and a public parking lot.
I love that you used the Santa Fe 3464 black and white film footage prominently in this video.
That is because of the only superhudsons left in existence from the United States, the fastest locomotives in the world period, there is only one left and it's
of that same class, it's sister locomotive 3463 at the Topeka fair grounds.
That thing should be put into service again by BNSF And shatter the speed record once and for all.
Then people would be paying many hundreds of dollars to go on that excursion train!
I recently saw a facebook group dedicated to getting the sole surviving PRR M1 back into steam. I don’t think they understand how big of a pipe dream it is.
Yea Id much rather just have the M1 cosmetically restored because the state its currently in is a sad display.
NS and CSX has donated to these museums in the east
@historyinthedark there might be a chance for madam queen to run again there's a group called madam Queen Restoration Society they said they're going to try to get Madame Queen to running again
wait hold up they are?
@@baileyfamily5303 maybe they are going to try
Honestly, I think That ide does have potential, but that is going to be a challenge.
I hope they manage it
With the mackwell locomotive boilers you can. I’m surprised no one has talked about him
When you think about how many locomotives there were at the turn of the century, from 1880 to 1930, all those steam locomotives, where did they go ?
There were massive numbers of passenger trains all over America.
Thinking about what it was like in the 1920s to the 1940s, you could get almost anywhere on a train.
Let's say you lived in Round Lake NY, and you wanted to go to East Greenville PA
You could take your suitcase and go to the train station in town, take one of the many daily D&H passenger trains
You could take one to Mechanicville, or Scotia, or Albany, and you could take the D&H to Allentown via Binghamton, or through NYC, or Port Jervis, or you could take the NY Central, or the Penn Central, and you could take the Perkiomen branch out of Allentown and that line runs right through East Greenville.
Many places had Whistle Stops
On the Perkiomen branch people would get off in the middle of farm country
Seeing how many double mains, triple and quad lines existed, it is crazy what happened
On the Delaware and Hudson there was double track from Mechanicville all the way to Albany and in most of the towns and cities there were sidings that ran the length of the city
In Cohoes they had sidings on each side and those sidings had sidings running to warehouses and businesses throughout the entire city
Even in the 1970s, there were 4 tracks running the entire length of the city.
Actually, as you drove over the Hudson River on the 112th st bridge, there was a double track that ran along the Hudson River from the Waterford train bridge to the Green Island train bridge
Going up Ontario Street, you then crossed the D&aH Colonie Sub main line, 4 tracks, and continued up Ontario Street till it ran into Columbia St and you had to turn right. You passed under the D&H double track that was actually the same track that ran along the Hudson River.
That track branched off the Colonie Sub at the North end of Waterford, and the train station was off that branch. It ran through the city and over the Mohawk River and through Peebles Island, over the Mohawk River again, and serviced the ship builders along the river, and the fuel storage tanks and warehouses along the Hudson, and crossed the Mohawk River again and entered Green Island and serviced Ford, and many other factories, and at the Troy-Green Island bridge, the line went in 4 directions, one going over into Troy, one going double track to Albany along the Hudson, and one going west, over 787 and that was double track and had a 4 way connection back to the Colonie Sub with a Wye, and also continued west, turning North.
It severed many factories and warehouses through the upper part of the city.
I remember as a kid, we drove from Troy, crossing the double track in Green Island, and went up the old Elm St and it was a high angle to get to the top of the Rt 32 Crossing, and we crossed the double track there, then crossed another high angle crossing of the D&H Colonie Sub 4 track mainline, and immediately crossed a single track siding that came off the junction of the Green Island spur that serviced Norlite, and then crossed the double track of the Troy-Green Island - Schenectady line.
The line running through Watervliet, there was a double stack of the searchlight signals just before 23rd Street
These faced both directions
They were the approach holdout signals to keep trains from blocking 23rd Street, route 7 at that time.
Just south of 23rd Street was an overhead signal tower called Northgate that was 4 tracks and entered the Menands Watervliet Arsenal yard
At the South end of the yard was another overhead 4 track signal called Southgate
There were a lot of crossovers throughout these control points
Coming south from Mechanicville you had the XO tower and an array of signals at MP 20 on the Colonie Sub
Then at MP 18 and 17 there were an array of signals for the sidings running to businesses and the crossover and holdout signals
At MP 15 there was an automated signal in both directions for both tracks
At MP 13 there were another set, and 12.1 were the signal array for the crossovers and the sidings feeding several chemical plants and warehouses
At 10.7 and 10.8 there were another set of automated signals
At 10.1 there was a set of control point signals and crossovers just north of the Waterford Cohoes train bridge
At the station in Cohoes, there was a ship for repair and a yard and there were signal towers just north of the station and south of the station
At 8.1 was an automated signal and a signal for the siding that feeds the papermill
Then after crossing Elm St you could see the holdout signals just north of 23rd St.
As soon as you got past them you saw Northgate and then Southgate
Today, the CPO-17 control point signals remain as a holdout signal
And the automatic signals at 15, 12, 10.8 are still there
8.1 was removed and replaced by automated signals at 8.5
The Northgate signal was replaced by a single signal
That is CPO-5 and the other end of the yard has a control point CPO-4 and the track leading into the Albany yard had a Control point CPO-2
It is such a a huge difference between what existed in 1974 and what exists today.
From 3 line and 8 tracks and 8 sidings now only 1 line with 1 track remains
Seeing all the local jobs and the D&H moving box cars and tankers on and off sidings all day long and coal cars dumped onto the top of the concrete 45 degree hills and the coal pile up at the bottom and people would come every day with a pail of or a bucket or a wheel barrel or a truck and they would buy coal for the hot water heater and the pot belly stove
Businesses like schools would have full time maintenance men who lived under the school in the boiler room
There would be massive metal doors in the road and on the weekends a tractor trailer with an open bed and hydraulic ram would pull to the doors in the road, the driver would open these huge metal doors, and the ram would lift the back of the truck and the coal would dump into the ground, like a magic trick, this massive amount of coal would disappear
Below the road there was a massive metal silo that was 5 stories high and there were steep stairs going down 4 stories to the basement
In the basement was another door and you opened to a metal catwalk around a 3 story sub basement
In the middle of the space was a massive boiler , like Freddy Krueger, these things were real, and they had an automated feeder for the coal, but they needed constant adjustments and they had massive steam pipes and hot water pipes and they were all coated with huge thick asbestos coverings
The boiler had a metal pipe that connected to the chimney that ran up 7 stories from underground and up the side of the school and they usually ran it at night, and got the pressure and temperature up
The school was very hot in the morning in the winter and as the day went on it got colder.
By 3:30 it was below 60 degrees inside
They only ran the boiler during the day if they had to.
When it was sub zero, I remember coming in and I could see the massive cloud of black smoke and smell it and the soot was raining down making the snow all dirty
It was a terrifying sight seeing this massive column of black sooty smoke just belching out the chimney under force
It smelled like Hell and by the end of the day, you clothes were dirty and you came home and took a shower and all these pieces of coal would be all over your body, and in your hair.
So much in your hair, it was like you poured a bucket of dirt in your hair.
The shower would turn black from the coal
The living space in the basement for the janitors, it had what are called " Butcher Showers " and they would use them to wash all the soot off their body and out of their hair.
I knew a couple of janitors that got the jobs back in the 50s and they had no education, they were hired as apprentices when they were 20 and they lived in the basement, and they had hot plates and a fridge and they would take food from the cafeteria and had 3 meals a day they got for free.
They basically lived rent free and had no expenses.
One of the guys had worked for the school for 40 years and he retired, and had his pension, social security and most of the money he made he had in the bank and in stocks and he bought a new car and a house in Florida and he left in his new car and he lived a good retirement in Florida and he said he was happy to never see snow again.
It would likely cost hundreds of millions at the minimum. As well as paying off class ones to allow special excursions would be extremely difficult to persuade to allow to happen. We’d need a brand new modern steam locomotive facility to rebuild and restore all of them which you’d need millions of dollars for that and full time employees, build coal/oil/sand/watering towers everywhere which is millions more. In the end with how many steam locos that are still around sitting dead would by the end cost billion or more. Organizing that would be a nightmare.
I’m deadset on having the entire 700 mikado SP/TNO having them run all at once grapevine you’ve ruined my 771 with that atrocious paint scheme and not holding your end to restore to operations. All three 700’s in Texas are literally in “potential restoration” or 786 which doesn’t have a shop to rebuild and they literally took pieces and gave it to another sp train out there recently only 745 is running again. If my project/business succeeds I WILL BUY AND RESTORE 771 and bring her back where she is meant to run, on the Texas coast, Victoria-Bloomington-port lavaca, and rebuild the port on Connor branch and connect to port lacow by building over the late 1800’s indianola railroad, make the line for local farmers, citizens that are low income and would have alternative access to transportation, rebuild the early 1900’s port onconnor bathhouse hotel that was 400 rooms and was on a pier, build spurs out to the multiple hunting and fishing lodges and resorts, and build a couple sidings to take in class one car storage for additional revenue on top of serving farmers and the seafood industry by erecting seadrifts wharf once more with a large pier it goes into for 1900’s themed dances and balls. Likely would cost millions and would need state and likely federal grants. But it’s a genius choice and would be one of a kind to bring back a mix of modern and older rail operations with mixed passenger/freight and excursion trains.
Port lavaca branch is likely going to be abandoned so providing them service I bet they’d appreciate
The worst thing for these locomotives is to sit, the second worse is to run them.
So its better to run them when you can if you can
I believe I read it was the GG1's rectifiers that were the main culprit for PCBs. I know they used to put them in transformers a lot so other electrical equipment of the era probably used it too.
GG1's were AC, no rectifier. The transformers did contain PCBs. The frames for the running gear have 40+ years of wear, micro fractures throughout.
@@660Oliver The source was AC but I'm pretty sure they were DC traction motors
@@thenekom AC motors. First PRR electrics to have DC motors were the Baldwin/Westinghouse demonstrators, which were rectifiers. The E44's had DC traction motors.
If i had this a bunch of money, I'll definitely save Southern Pacific 4460, Canadian Pacific 3101, GTW 6323, NKP 170 and Canadain Pacific 2341 and I'll say they should be donted to the RRHMA where now restoring UP 3985 and 5511, maybe just maybe the Railroading Heritage of Midwest America can run steam better, but hope for the best and I'll join them because I love steam locomotives and classic diesels and also I'll join the Illinois Railway Museum for mt life goal.
Personally, I'd love to see the ACL 1031 return to service, and operate on the A Line from Florence to Charleston. However, I can appreciate that it would take a king's ransom to restore her to operation again. Add to the fact that CSX would never allow a steam excursion on their mainline again.
While I would very much like to see every steam engine restored back to operation to do a mainline run again (at least once). However, with my mechanical background in cars, I know that's not going to be possible. I would at least like to see a cosmetic & structural restoration done on as many steam locos as humanly possible so they can keep being around for many more generations to see & touch.
There are times where you'd be better off creating a new replica instead of trying to restore a surviving old design.
Restoring every steamer to operation will always be impossible because of all problems you mentioned.
Thank you for saying what we all saw in the video
@@colestrains1 Np. It's sad but it's true. Ironically in some cases it's better if they never run again due to not risking to lose it in an accident or god knows what.
It's something we all need to hear but none of us want to
@@fanofeverything30465 Yeah and it sucks, but that's reality.
@@fanofeverything30465 @fanofeverything30465 Yeah and it sucks, but that's reality.
This is why the port Adelaide railway museum does not use the metropolitan system even though they have a track now
How do you restore thoses locomotive That only has just a Body like no boiler, wheels,funnel Etc and those who Only have a Boiler
While we can’t restore every engine I think we can at least cosmetically restore a majority of them or put them under cover. That would be better than letting them rust away outside
Here here. Who wouldn't want too fix up every locomotive? It's Disgraceful, Disgusting and Despicable!
Not to mention You Need Extra permissions from the Railroad Giants to run Excursion Passenger trains on their tracks
It is a basic fact that only a limited percentage of the steam locomotives that were built have been preserved in museums or restored to full operation. A lot of steam locomotives were cut up and sold as scrap metal at the end of their life. Some steam locomotives made it into museums and even a smaller number of steam locomotives were restored to full operation. Like this video points out, it takes a lot of money and a lot of work to restore a steam locomotive. I suspect that Union Pacific 4014 Big Boy was the most expensive to restore steam locomotive, because it is so large and has a lot of parts and components, which is much more than smaller steam locomotives. Also Union Pacific completely rebuilt their Steam Locomotive shop to handle the restoration of the Big Boy. Also Union Pacific was the only company that was in a position where they could restore a Big Boy Locomotive. If Union Pacific had not made the decision to restore a Big Boy the Union Pacific 4014 Big Boy would still to this day be on exhibit in Pomona California at the RailGiants Train Museum.
Well Nashville, Chattanooga and St.Louis #576 is currently undergoing restoration in Nashville after sitting in a city park since the 1950s. It has about another year of work needed after 4+ years of work. Johnny Cash featured it on an album cover. Something to think about Darkness.
What album?
@@4-8-4Northern my mistake….it was a Life magazine cover of Johnny Cash, not an album cover.
It’s a Life Magazine cover. I got that wrong. Apologies.
Personally as much as I personally would like to see more big steam engines brought back to operation, I think it’s impossible because it’s not financially feasible and even if it was, where would we take it? We can’t just throw it on a tourist line because a lot of them aren’t made to handle heavy engines.
If you have the famous or infamous tilted number 8 on its side in your bank account...
Well, even rusted out hulks of steam locomotives can be "saved", the question there is a matter of your definition of course.
Truth is, with infinite funds, you can go on having stuff fabricated as you please, but these will be "new" parts and not original anymore.
In a realistic world though where you have a finite amount of funds, you have finite possibilities.
i remember once a week they used to run a steam train down the bergen line in nj. it was awesome. everyone would gather down to the train tracks to see the train. it was so amazing. it was so loud and sounded so powerful. they havent done this in so many years. i remember the black smoke that came out of that thing was insane!! probably the reason they dont run it anymore.
theres a museum in paterson, nj where the old locomotive factory is. and also i remember in scranton they had locomotives at the steam town mall.
idc about diesel locomotives.... the steam trains are awesome tho
now after watching this im deterimined to find out who was responsible for running that steam train every week like 30 years ago and try to get them to do it again!!
Ngl I'd love to see a Mohawk run again
@@GoofyVirginian630 boy do I have some news for you…
@@TURBOBLU-fx6mn I'm afraid you're just a little too late. Can't wait for 3001!
I think There’s a rumor around Illinois railroad museum about restoring PRR GG1 4927 to operating condition. If that’s the case I wish em good luck and hope they don’t die 😅
God please, I would give anything to see one of those things in action in the flesh.
If it's true, then good luck to them.
Let's hope it's true
I heard a story a few years ago that they hooked a welder up to it and managed to make it move back and forth a few feet. But that story is probably exactly that.
On the restoration of a GG-1,add the difficulty of the change of voltage/frequency,of the current PRR/Antrak mainlines! Those engines were set up for 11,000 volts/25 cycle,and the mains are set up,now for 25,000 volts/60 cycle,industrial voltage! So basically,you'd have to re-engineer to a GG-2,outwardly PRR,inwardly GE E-44+,rectifer engines! Complicated,yes,but the trolley museums,at least don't have those headaches! Anyway,that part,you omitted,is crucial,for obvious reasons! Thanks for the economic lessons for the neophytes,and dreamers,! Thank you 😊😅! Thank you 😇 😊!
In your opening picture of the two old locomotives - were those the “ghost trains” of Eagle/Chamberlain Lake in Maine?
Short answer, money..
Sempre o dinheiro
Yes and inflation doesn't help
@@spyfan62591 Aqui no brasil tem um monte de locomotiva que tá enferrujada
Not just money
It’s just way too expensive to bring all restored steam engines back into operation. You gotta face that you’ll won’t get all of back into operation
That part with the electrics really depends on where you are, as you said. And a lot of to old electric equipment was built bulletproof, so once you get the transformer (if necessary) sorted, the rest (if existing) should mostly work. It’s typically a combination of relays and heaters (resistors), which are components that are still in common use today
"FILL THE LINES WITH BIG CHUNGUS-"
-History in the dark
Well, we can still preserve them in museums
If I suddenly become a billionaire overnight, I’m going to commission an entirely accurate replica of some BLW locomotive from the 1890s.
Except with modern metallurgy.
I'd commission a replica of the 1893 Empire State Express #999, complete with 86" drivers. Yes, modern metallurgy + roller bearings on all engine wheels. (After that's done, I'd do NYC class J Hudsons, in both conventional and streamlined versions!)
not many people care about history, it's unfortunate
I do
It's not that they don't care, it's that restoration is very difficult
I'm just glad so many were saved and i can see them. I am also glad there are some many actually running. Here in florida we have 148 with us sugar and 1504 that was acquired in 2021 Not sure what the disposition is of the 1504 as far as restoration.
Is it possible to rebuild former Amtrak F40PHR unit 275???
Easy. It’s a matter of man power and money. Plus it needs to be planned were it can be run.
You should do a video of Roundhouses and turntables.
I'd rather see them in a museum
Says the my property I have some steam locomotives and Many PVR passenger cars behind me home it was a railway round house and workshop soo I'm fixing up some locomotives like a Hudson
Given the potential cost of restoring a GG1 (mostly having to do with properly disposing of the PCBs, lead paint and any asbestos), I have to wonder aloud if it would be less expensive to build a brand-new one from scratch.
Why did the loco at 13:40 look like its wheels were going backwards while it was moving forwards?
I heard the $1Million dollar quote to restore a steam engine 18ish years ago.... So I'm calling B.S. $1.5Million each bud!
I personal would love to see some of these big engines restored that are late examples of steam at it's knowledge zenith, and the fast examples. Like I want to see Burlington 3007, a 4-6-4 Hudson, restored but even at IRM which is the biggest Railroad museum in America, 3007 wouldn't be able to get to top speed on the track there.... and because of how big it it it would cause soooo much wear and tear on the tracks :( just smaller engines are more efficient for actual restoration to running capabilities.
NCTM has restored 611, the Texas for Georgia, and 604,542.
Missed out on the biggest point with steam locomotives. The bearings..
IT IS POSSIBLE, the problem is it isn't PLAUSIBLE financially. I myself have plans that I cannot and will not say but they will change the face of railroading in North America FOREVER.
People forget these steam locos were serious tech for the day. I imagine restoring an F-16 in 2124. Yeah, the specific maintenance, skills & knowledge are uncommon today. They were the final, insanely refined & complicated machines developed over a century. As for re-engineing diesels, I say go for it, if it keeps it going.
5:06 that laugh😂
IMO you should have some static display steam locomotives. Static display means more people can get in the cab and tour the locomotive without the worry of breaking it more.
Not enough money for all of them, not enough places to run them, especially the big mainline locomotives.
This is why we have virtual simulators. With that you can literally run any steam locomotive you want, that is if that specific engine has been modeled for that said game. Like trainz for example
Or model trains you can hold in your hands.
@@OriginalBongoliathVery true
They, can, just, build, the, R O U N D H O U S E.
It would be too expensive to bring every single steam locomotive to operation because of money and logistic reasons. But we still should love and care about steam locomotives. Either they are on static display or in operational condition, they need to be preserved !
Anyone know how difficult it would be to acquire dormant rail lines from a class 1?
For example Kentucky steam wants to get the EK division from CSX at some point
What would they have to go through?
There is also the replica guys (and gals, there's a lot of self-described "wrench wenches"!) who make extinct locomotives come back from the dead. I love the idea of a "Clan" (both types! Not just "Hengist" but also the earlier Highland Railway 4-6-0 footsloggers (if you do "Excellent engines with one annoying flaw" again, that's a very good candidate, also it's designer, Chris Cumming is considered to be probably the nicest person to ever be CME of a major railway.)) And an L&Y class 8 and/or a GCR 9Q... but there I'd leave it!
I would like to apologize for opening a can of worms, and agree if you are passionate about restoring a locomotive go support your local loco, far too many have met the cutters torch post preservation...
Don't forget the morons that don't want these around due to the noise and smell etc. I n my area an excursion RR running on abandoned lines they purchased was forced to stop running due to the jerks in the town being upset at the noise and smoke. Mostly the noise as they had to blow the whistle/horn at crossings and the people were upset about that.
I’m confident I can restore AT&SF 5000, Darkness’s favorite locomotive. Plus, my friends want to restore locomotives too, like N&W 1218 and 2156, SP 4294 and 4460, and the NYC Mohawks.
I'd like to see C.P. Huntington, NP 328, NP 1070, NP 2156, CP 1278, CP 1293, GTW 5632, CB&Q 5629, and SP 4294 be restored to operation again.
Also NYC 5344(Hudson)Needs to Be Restored
@@JayTheTrainFan There’s no more Hudson’s left. My personal, I would love to see a Hudson, but what you’re basically saying is that you’d want to rebuild an ENTIRE 4-6-4 Hudson.
@@JayTheTrainFan I’d prefer a locomotive that still exist and isn’t scrapped.
@@TrainLover-wt9ix Like N&W 1218?
Dr Evil has one billion dollars
Can you do "Why Can't we build every "New-Build" class locomotives that were Extinct"?