@@АлексДобров-щ7з scores in mvm are kinda wonky for medic, you cant really tell if someone plays medic well depending on score. you can get a high score by JUST using your medigun which is a pretty bad idea
The old "meta" was based entirely on what works for inexperienced players on wave 1. There was no logic to it. MvM has barely changed in the past 10 years.
The only required classes in advanced missions are scout and engineer, the other 4 can be whatever the fuck they want at this point. Source: ME, I HAVE PLAYED MOST OF POTATO’S CUSTOM WAVES, SOME OF THEM WERE HELLISH, BUT WE PULLED THROUGH
That’s the kind of thing u expect from a typical smooth-brained meta slave. They dont understand why the meta exists or bother learning class roles, they just blindly follow it and blame the top-scoring player simply because he picked spy.
It's actually pretty realistic honestly, war machines like tanks have much thinner armour on the back, sides, and top, since it isn't feasible for them to be one massive chunk of metal and composites. The robots here likely follow the same principle of having thinner armour the further rearwards you get, meaning Spy can actually very easily force a sharp blade through the weaker backs of the robots
Surprisingly true, not gonna lie, the sawn off shotguns at max damage are incredible for the tanks (Hell, a lot of classes are pretty good with the tank actually, Heavy eating a steak and punching with the bear paws, a heavily injured soldier with his pickaxe, an engineer with a decked out widowmaker, a sniper with his rifle excluding the Sydney Sleeper or even the bow at max reload, damage, and charge, the list goes on)
Most people don't realize that all 9 classes all have their strengths. What this video proved was that spy was able to prevent Uber medics from popping off which would have made the experience more worse for the others
Not to mention he's great at drawing aggro and tanking killshots, stopping the bomb, and money grabbing. Consider how much he's forced to be in melee range of robots and how much backstabbing goes on, and you might notice spy collects the cash off every bot he scraps and is constantly in the front crushing major targets like giants, medics, and scouts. You KNOW scout bots are the menace nobody wants getting out of reach, and the sapper stops them dead in their tracks while they get wailed on. Spy is great, people are just too meta-driven braindead to think about why.
@@ryanmaeder9898 Yeah, its like they forced people to play "My Way" these brainded mvm players should go back to sleep and perhaps read book of philosophy
I saw this tank busting guide on a channel called "weezytf2" Here's a TLDR for that video Scout: use the soda popper, the shortstop can also work, but the soda popper is cheaper to upgrade(and has more utility outside of tank busting) . Soldier: use the airstrike with a crit canteen, but if you want to add some support with a banner, use the beggar's bazooka instead, the airstrike is basically useless without the base jumper anyway. Pyro: phlog, mmmph meter, burn that tank. Demoman: for regular demo, use the Scottish resistance and make a crit sticky trap, for demoknight, use the skullcutter. Heavy: pair the steak sandvich and warrior's spirit, miniguns have a damage penalty towards tanks. Engineer: wait for Sentry to target tank, then gun em down with the widowmaker. Medic: upgrade canteen specialist, buy crit canteens, share canteens with pyro, soldier, or demoman. Sniper: deal 100 damage using the cleaner's carbine, activate the crikey meter, start slashing with the bushwacka. Spy: farm crits for your diamondback, and just unload them to the next tank. If you haven't, watch that video, it's both entertaining and helpful.
The an phlog Pyro and heavy is enough to take out 3 tanks. Sniper and spies are not made for tanks and shouldn't be used as such. They specialize in bot killing above anything else. Trying to use "off-meta" things like Bushwacka and soda popper will only make your team less efficient, which in some missions, WILL throw the round
@@TheNickBrotherhood This is incredibly incorrect. Heavy is awful against the tank (tanks have a 75% minigun damage resistance). The Bushwacka is meta unless you're using the Cozy Camper, in which use anything else. Fully upgraded swing speed on a Bushwacka plus crits from the Cleaner's Carbine can tankshred perfectly fine, and a fully upgraded Soda Popper is fantastic against tanks too. You very obviously have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about. It only throws the game if you and everyone else on your team is completely incompetent. Weezy's got experience, and hell, even I've got experience.
@@hedgehoginacanoe5838 Which is a fine choice if you're not doing anything else, but there's almost always something else Heavy should be doing. Saying Heavy is better than Sniper against tanks is wrong and saying that using the Bushwacka or the Soda Popper will throw the round is not just wrong but also a display of stupidity.
Kinda happy that most teams i queue up with are fine with me playing spy for the most part, despite them being a mixed bag of players so not really expecting me to follow the ‘meta’
I know right the guy complao about the spy being the readon they couldn't tank bust was literally a pyro wich is able to dolo a tank before they even get halfway. And he somwhow bottemscored wich indicates he wasn't using gasspasser otherwise his damage would be higher. Like i half 10 less tours then this dude and i am a better pyro player then him
@@maxdong3514 bruh how you bottem frag with gass passer. Like if you have an even halfway decent team to keep you alive at all you can just spam gp and insta win
I played a Demoknight in non Mann-up mvm. There was another Demoknight as well. Stupid team load out, but a funny one. They take point A, and one of the team members goes “That’s why we shouldn’t have 2 Demo knights.” Bruh, we all failed to prevent a few bots from going past our defenses, eat your heart out, screw you, I want to cut the heads off of robots.
Spy is somewhat of an enigma in MVM, as I'm sure many have seen Spies in MVM being terrible, but when you have a legitimately good (or even great) Spy, then you'll be in for a rude awakening with what Spy is really capable of.
It does take a lot to get all the meat out of Spy's bones, but everything being shown here was great - surfing especially is so ridiculously important to Spy revival, as well as balancing damage resistance and DR timing. He's not easy, but if a Spy proves their worth, let them cook.
Spy has a very small niche - soloing high health robots - but he does it *very* well. The harder the mission is with giants and higher health robots like steel gauntlets, the more useful Spy is. Conversely he's basically useless in earlier waves and easier missions that consist mostly of small robots and tanks.
The only time I get annoyed is if a engineer does not put his dispenser near the action or if a scout does not use mad milk (if he has the item that is), but getting mad at other players for playing a different class then what they want, even if they are winning? I won't ever understand the mental process of such people ...
People think spy is useless when he can completely obliterate a giants health, sap said giants and sap sentry busters, and can collect money mid fight thanks to his disguise kit. His revolver can also be useful at damaging most regular bots, especially if it’s crit booted.
I appreciate the "if he has the item" note, actually. I didn't have Mad Milk for a while, and I always felt terrible playing Scout and being unable to help my team properly. X3
Mann Up players in a nutshell.. They take it so seriously because they want their pReCiOuS aUsTrAlIuMs but at the end of the day the whole point is still to have fun, and to try and force someone else to play the game YOU want is just nonsense..
These people actually suck, some guy tried to kick me from a community mvm server event for playing spy instead of engineer (I told him I don't know how to play engineer, and I was just there to have fun) I ended up leaving because it wasn't worth my blood pressure to deal with that guy
I get that Spy is a hard class to play in MvM, just as he is in base TF2, and that can be worrying if you see someone who's apparently on their first tour playing as him... but once they start out damaging the whole team, I'd just let them continue doing their thing and shut the hell up.
I might not one actively playing mvm, but if I would saw some 1 tour player going spy or sniper, I'd be just silently minding my own business and see if they can cook or not
There’s also a mission on decoy where there’s engineers on every wave and they are the biggest issue besides super scouts. On the mission, the medics also follow the engineers, so you can accidentally end up causing them to Uber. This doesn’t happen with spy backstabs. Spy can also disguise and just stand there until the right moment to sap the sentry, kill the engineer, and then go and rinse and repeat.
@@dr.infernous9342personally I use the numpad coz using the same disguise over and over makes you stick out like a sore thumb. Also friendly spy disguises are incredibly noticeable when youre not approaching the enemy team since a spy disguised as a spy can’t fake a lot of the enemy spy’s cosmetics
2:59 “You are lucky we aren’t as huge of assholes compared to people with higher tour counts than us” translation of Fred T-12000’s chat messages. I hate the toxicity in MvM, especially when it’s disguised as pretending they are nice despite all the previous conflict with everyone prior.
so fucking true but the fact its not even mvm its just tf2 in general LOL (the things you said above perfectly describe what it is) mvm is a 99% concentration of the toxic fanbase and initiates the toxicity
This is just what only playing 2 cities does to people. They end up thinking that theres a defined team comp you need to use. Playing tours that isnt 2 cities helped me realize that every class can work in mvm so long as you known what youre doing.
Exactly. I only play Two Cities because it's the easiest to find games for (though Gear Grinder and Mecha Engine have been getting a lot of traction lately) and it's got the highest return on investment, and it's kinda fun sometimes, but I hate when players insist on sticking to the meta like glue. If Two Cities wasn't still the most popular tour by far, I would probably almost never actually play it because Mecha Engine and Gear Grinder are both easier and more fun.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK sorry for wall of text but yeah honestly i feel like theres way too much empbasis put on team comp "meta" when there should be more focus on communication and game sense, at least in my experience, including on gigachad wave 666 which u can beat with 2 pyro 2 sniper 1 engi and 1 scout or 1 sniper 1 demo 1 pyro 1 medic 1 engi or whatever u want. i think the only thing for meta would be shield medic on certain waves with ungodly crit spam and having an engi for cleanup and bodyblock on those really long ass maps in expert, otherwise u have to chase down big scouts which gets annoying after like the 57th big scout. imo the reason people focus so hard on the team comp meta is because they want the fastest most "efficient" game so they can get to the actual game theyre playing, digital item gambling... obviouslt if someones like walking into walls and shooting other players then yeah thats kinda bad but if you have someone who knows what theyre doing, how to play the class they chose (overall strategy, more useful upgrades) and is ok with taking like idk an extra 10 seconds to finish the full game then i honestly would prefer that to a person only capable of playing two cities soldier and yelling about class picks. ive had the most fun in mvm doing weird stuff that works and had the least fun when hearing ppl get angry at eachother over video games.
I think that spy should have an upgrade like sniper does because hey if the man that can be 20 kilometers away from the robots can solo the game, maybe the french man who stabs people should also have something to kill large groups of enemies (emphasis in kill not stunt)
That gives me an idea for a spy equivalent of Sniper's Explosive Headshot- Shocking Knifeplay. A 3-tier passive ability that can stun bots in a certain radius entirely for 0.5/1/1.5 seconds, exposing their backsides and allowing for real chainstabs.
@@fcomolineiro7596 Well, if you have the skill to start a chainstab, what's the difference? How many ways can you find to make spy kill groups outright like a sniper?
@@fcomolineiro7596 All cards on deck; Spy's entire THING is finding a good moment and stunting enemy forces. Trying to forcefully change his class identity by giving him upgrades that don't fit his identity will just screw up the balance of the game; A good spy can already outscore the other classes in damage against giants alone as seen in the video. Giving him crowd control could wreck the balance.
If only most of Spy's mechanics weren't bugged in mvm, it would be glorious. Also, I'm jealous of how good this looks, whenever I try the bots snap around 180 after I place a sapper despite the disguise
im always skeptical about spy players but solong as they arnt 5 kills 20 deaths by round 3 i dont really care what they play, i only have a problem with people who play spy but have no idea how to play spy and so they are flat out just taking up a spot that another player could fill
God damn! I love watching you play, your style is so dynamic and independent. As a regular wave-1 spy myself, I haven't noticed too much spy hate on my end, but it's still sad to see people's prejudice against an obviously skilled player that's contributing a lot. Keep proving the naysayers wrong, king!
This player did the most damage than everyone else did individually, not surprising given the amount of times he back stabbed during the video but what surprises me most was he was using a speed boosting knife to ensure more back stabs rather than the dead kuni combo like most other spies.
I'm guessing because he rely on the money to heal him and many spies in mvm hasn't mastered it yet. Pubs is already hard enough to handle let alone mvm.
People complain about big earner and kunai not having both of each other's upsides but there is a health on kill upgrade, you can buy 2 and just not die (unless you suck or get stuck in a really bad situation)
the raging teammates being against you and trying to guilttrip you into changing while youre actually just doing your job is the best part of the video
How I see it. If your good at playing spy in MVM. Play Spy in MVM. Your can focus down the giants, your friendly neighbourhood pyro can take out the normal robots with or without team support (depending on scouts... always the dang scouts)
That reminds me how many times people told me to switch to a different class when I was an Engineer in MvM Then I casually parried them by dealing the most damage out of the entire team on the tank and normal bots And no it wasn't the Sentry doing the most damage, it only cleaned up stray bots and spies
wait who the heck ever tells an engineer to switch class? it's literally always good to have an engineer, because Dispenser and Teleporter are god tier. While typically they don't do the most damage, the sentry is amazing at picking off stragglers that get past.
So many fun police in video games these days. Also they prolly don't even know how good spy can be because they don't have the patience for his high skill ceiling. I understand that, I have the same issue, but I don't instantly label someone as a "bad player" just because they're Spy.
Without you the team would lose by default. Small robots is everyone's concern but mainly Scout inflicting slowness from Mad milk and possibly Engineer. Tank Buster classes are mostly for Pyros, Demos, Soldiers and even Sniper with Carbine + Bushwacka combo. Heavy is actually worse for Tanks thanks to the 75% minigun damage resistance to tanks. Spy is good at keeping the Giants occupied without shooting at your teammates. Also I totally didn't expect the Big Earner in play as I regard it as a situational weapon in B or even C tier in casual. But here in MvM it shows to be a good tool for fast escapes combined with the Dead Ringer.
Spy in MVM is like Scout in DRG: if he’s REALLY good, you’re never going to see him, but you ARE going to be left wondering where all the high-priority enemies are.
2:58 Man this dude is really new in MvM high tour people dont even care most of the time. Sometimes they even see who came up whit the most dumbass idea just to make the grind on the gamemode more entretaining
i would get why they would get angy if they were playing mann up, becouse spy is very good at one on one giant busting and not very good at groups and tanks, but that was bootcamp, its free, play whatever you want, and beat the waves also, epic french gameplay
Spy is the only class who can backstab medics (big medics too) and become the god machine killer with speed, damage and critical (you can deal more better damage than other class with just risk your dead ringer.)
Spy in MVM is a Nuker character, he's squishy but when utilized properly by a skilled player can make the whole experience smoother by taking out support units (ie. preventing medic ubers), stunning/debuffing with sapper so teammates can deal damage with less erratic movements, executing large bots with high burst damage so team can focus on small bots. He is quite the unsung hero in the right hands.
@@mohsin3725 There is no skill required to play on Mann Up, that should be stated clear. i am talking about Community servers where a single wave can turn Spy literally unplayable, when Soldiers get buffed ckockback and sends spy flying on every its stab, or Robot Engineers decides to completely overtake uncovered spots, or literally any other scenario when robots Does Not follow a single path. Spy is a one trick class that can only deal with a singlual enemy at once, and where is multiple coming non stop, Spy as a class, becomes a D tier for its performance. Even a Scout can do more than Spy in damage at this point
@@СлышКупи-ы3е a singular enemy class cant deal with crowd bots no shit I played alot of community mvm and yes spy wont do shit at those moments but thats why u have another 5 player slots ur not completing the mission all by urself u just there to help killing those giants and a 950 dmg per stab does help
robot aggro is important to learn as spy so classes who also rely on it (scout, pyro) can help you be a better spy. i'd recommend advanced missions like bavarian botbash (rottenburg is a good spy map and has a lot of giants). watch mr underscore's spy guide if you havent. remember that spy can be annoying to play because of aggro shenanigans and dying as him is normal
Don't worry, everyone's bad in normal missions, just follow the meta and you're practically guaranteed at least 3d place (Speed, attack speed, armour penetration, health on kill to 2, robot sapper power to 1-2, damage resistances, regen, and jump boost) Haven't played with kunai yet (speed is way too good for money collection), but just do everything minus the health on kill Gotta learn how to balance them on your own, play a bunch of normal missions you'll be fine
I love play spy Sapper enemy sentry and teleporter Kill half of crit giant Demo + Uber medic far when I see someone chat" spy didn't anything only do sapper bot engineer"
While yes it looks like everything ended up fine, not communicating with your team and not making compromises can lead to discourse where there wouldn’t be normally. Ur a good spy, but when others have to adapt and change because you WANT to play spy, it gets people upset and can lead to losses where you would have easily crushed it. I also liked the part where you synced the bomb tick tock to the sonic song
Cause people don't want the mains to go through a training arc to get good even if it would cost some games to be on the same level as this player in the video
Mvm spy main here, goddamn, I do half the damage you do and still think im a pretty good spy guess i got some giant trickstabbing to learn And: I've watched this too many times And 2: Classic scout at the frontlines marking and milking giants even though the rest of the team is miles away And 3: Have reached this level of gameplay, is extremely fun
@@RvBnerd618 There are some people in MvM who is being a disservice to his team like picking Pyro but not doing his job. And when people politely ask him to switch class, they will defend themselves by saying that they’re a Tacobot wannabe and thay just want to enjoy the game. I’m not saying that playing Spy is bad or Pyro is bad, i’m not a Tacobot user and i despise them. I’m just saying that if you’re doing poorly at the game and you’re just making your team an inconvenience AND you are not listening to them EVEN they ask you politely. You’re just an ass
![Endless Rust [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NZnpbXwlCc4/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Most Toxic MVM Match](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cHxCT5vAbc0/mqdefault.jpg)
the screenshot at the end revealing hes a bottomscoring pyro is just wonderful
Sheesh, did he HAVE to do him that bad?
Isn't medic the lowest on the scoreboard? I don't get how it works in mvm
@@АлексДобров-щ7з scores in mvm are kinda wonky for medic, you cant really tell if someone plays medic well depending on score. you can get a high score by JUST using your medigun which is a pretty bad idea
@@АлексДобров-щ7зt’s usually things like Support and Healing that tell if a medic is good and even then it’s still hard to tell
@@fleshdadbot6852yeah, pretty much 😂 deserved
Those guys were acting like it’s 2013 and the old MVM meta hasn’t been completely shattered lmao
the old 3 heavy 1 scout meta
The old "meta" was based entirely on what works for inexperienced players on wave 1. There was no logic to it. MvM has barely changed in the past 10 years.
The only required classes in advanced missions are scout and engineer, the other 4 can be whatever the fuck they want at this point.
Source: ME, I HAVE PLAYED MOST OF POTATO’S CUSTOM WAVES, SOME OF THEM WERE HELLISH, BUT WE PULLED THROUGH
i have so many medals from those events, some of these operation take forever
@@minibotas9496 The only required classes for an easy game.
The “oh you can’t backstab tanks” thing would be a good point if they weren’t asking you to switch to heavy which has even worse dps on tanks than spy
That’s the kind of thing u expect from a typical smooth-brained meta slave.
They dont understand why the meta exists or bother learning class roles, they just blindly follow it and blame the top-scoring player simply because he picked spy.
Ya he literally has nerfed damage on tanks
Doesn't Heavy get like a 75% dmg DEBUFF against tanks?
@MANGO-dk9cz yeah, something like that
Also yeah he can’t backstab tanks but he can ignore it to kill everything else while the rest of the team kills it
Spy must've been hitting the gym pretty hard to backstab Machines.
Yes he's hitting hard in the gym
But how the knife shred through the robot?
@@ABallisticChair cartoon physics
It's actually pretty realistic honestly, war machines like tanks have much thinner armour on the back, sides, and top, since it isn't feasible for them to be one massive chunk of metal and composites. The robots here likely follow the same principle of having thinner armour the further rearwards you get, meaning Spy can actually very easily force a sharp blade through the weaker backs of the robots
@@theshermantanker7043 you have to be extremely heavy on the arms and almost wack the robots as hard as you could to do some damage to it
2:59 Man might not have the tour count yet, but he's got the toxicity down to a fine art.
Most "toxicity" I've seen in MvM comes from low tours, most high tours just seem to want to get the game over with and don't mind carrying.
"We need a Pyro for the tank."
Scouts are awesome at tanks and almost nobody realizes it.
Pyro better doe
The problem is that most scouts don't upgrade the gun
scouts have gun allergy
Soldier with the righteous bison: am I a joke to you
Surprisingly true, not gonna lie, the sawn off shotguns at max damage are incredible for the tanks (Hell, a lot of classes are pretty good with the tank actually, Heavy eating a steak and punching with the bear paws, a heavily injured soldier with his pickaxe, an engineer with a decked out widowmaker, a sniper with his rifle excluding the Sydney Sleeper or even the bow at max reload, damage, and charge, the list goes on)
Most people don't realize that all 9 classes all have their strengths. What this video proved was that spy was able to prevent Uber medics from popping off which would have made the experience more worse for the others
That fred guy clearly doesn't know shit about the game and mains pyro
Not to mention he's great at drawing aggro and tanking killshots, stopping the bomb, and money grabbing. Consider how much he's forced to be in melee range of robots and how much backstabbing goes on, and you might notice spy collects the cash off every bot he scraps and is constantly in the front crushing major targets like giants, medics, and scouts. You KNOW scout bots are the menace nobody wants getting out of reach, and the sapper stops them dead in their tracks while they get wailed on.
Spy is great, people are just too meta-driven braindead to think about why.
@@ryanmaeder9898 Yeah, its like they forced people to play "My Way" these brainded mvm players should go back to sleep and perhaps read book of philosophy
and the team will never realize how good those plays were, and didnt appreciate spy for it
Those people arent true gamers, true gamers allow other gamers to do their thing.@@judicatorhurayth1927
Ah yes, the classic "swap to soldier for tank" when the team has an engie, sniper, scout, *and* pyro.
I saw this tank busting guide on a channel called "weezytf2"
Here's a TLDR for that video
Scout: use the soda popper, the shortstop can also work, but the soda popper is cheaper to upgrade(and has more utility outside of tank busting) .
Soldier: use the airstrike with a crit canteen, but if you want to add some support with a banner, use the beggar's bazooka instead, the airstrike is basically useless without the base jumper anyway.
Pyro: phlog, mmmph meter, burn that tank.
Demoman: for regular demo, use the Scottish resistance and make a crit sticky trap, for demoknight, use the skullcutter.
Heavy: pair the steak sandvich and warrior's spirit, miniguns have a damage penalty towards tanks.
Engineer: wait for Sentry to target tank, then gun em down with the widowmaker.
Medic: upgrade canteen specialist, buy crit canteens, share canteens with pyro, soldier, or demoman.
Sniper: deal 100 damage using the cleaner's carbine, activate the crikey meter, start slashing with the bushwacka.
Spy: farm crits for your diamondback, and just unload them to the next tank.
If you haven't, watch that video, it's both entertaining and helpful.
The an phlog Pyro and heavy is enough to take out 3 tanks. Sniper and spies are not made for tanks and shouldn't be used as such. They specialize in bot killing above anything else. Trying to use "off-meta" things like Bushwacka and soda popper will only make your team less efficient, which in some missions, WILL throw the round
@@TheNickBrotherhood This is incredibly incorrect. Heavy is awful against the tank (tanks have a 75% minigun damage resistance). The Bushwacka is meta unless you're using the Cozy Camper, in which use anything else. Fully upgraded swing speed on a Bushwacka plus crits from the Cleaner's Carbine can tankshred perfectly fine, and a fully upgraded Soda Popper is fantastic against tanks too. You very obviously have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about. It only throws the game if you and everyone else on your team is completely incompetent. Weezy's got experience, and hell, even I've got experience.
@@cheezkid2689steak and warriors spirit.
@@hedgehoginacanoe5838 Which is a fine choice if you're not doing anything else, but there's almost always something else Heavy should be doing. Saying Heavy is better than Sniper against tanks is wrong and saying that using the Bushwacka or the Soda Popper will throw the round is not just wrong but also a display of stupidity.
I really love playing Spy and getting shat on by the entire team despite the fact that I'm topping bot damage, by a large amount.
Even better is when people notice your damage and compliment you for it
Kinda happy that most teams i queue up with are fine with me playing spy for the most part, despite them being a mixed bag of players so not really expecting me to follow the ‘meta’
@@QuantumApplei would have vote kicked you the moment you refused to switch off spy
Pick classes are very good for mvm, idk what they're on.
@Determinator21 And would've f2'd because they were doing just fine and crying in MvM is dumb
You can tell how bad a team is when they’re struggling with a tank against small bots while you take care of the actual, scary giants.
I know right the guy complao about the spy being the readon they couldn't tank bust was literally a pyro wich is able to dolo a tank before they even get halfway. And he somwhow bottemscored wich indicates he wasn't using gasspasser otherwise his damage would be higher. Like i half 10 less tours then this dude and i am a better pyro player then him
@@namethefifth7315worse yet, i saw gas clouds he was using gas passer and still somehow bottom scored, bro really has no point in blaming spy
@@maxdong3514 bruh how you bottem frag with gass passer. Like if you have an even halfway decent team to keep you alive at all you can just spam gp and insta win
High-tour people only exist because they are either actually skilled, or they have played meta loadouts their whole experience
@@namethefifth7315 He didn't upgrade gas passer, probably.
>team loses to tanks
>blames spy
KEKW
They even had a pyro and still lost lol
@@poidythewizard4509 lol
Maybe the pyro wasn't using the phlog, but if he was, they had no right to blame the spy
@@toastyboi8737 the pyro *was* using the phlog, so he must be the real culprit
I played a Demoknight in non Mann-up mvm. There was another Demoknight as well. Stupid team load out, but a funny one. They take point A, and one of the team members goes “That’s why we shouldn’t have 2 Demo knights.” Bruh, we all failed to prevent a few bots from going past our defenses, eat your heart out, screw you, I want to cut the heads off of robots.
This is the tf2 embodiment of "let him cook".
Sure spies aren't often good, but when you find a good one it's fun to see them in action.
Spy is somewhat of an enigma in MVM, as I'm sure many have seen Spies in MVM being terrible, but when you have a legitimately good (or even great) Spy, then you'll be in for a rude awakening with what Spy is really capable of.
just like spy in casual, you either have the worst fucking spy ever, or he's channeling the power of the gods to really fucking show off
@NanaKyoto spy is the dark souls of Team Fortress 2
spy in mvm is basically a specialist, and he is really good at it
It does take a lot to get all the meat out of Spy's bones, but everything being shown here was great - surfing especially is so ridiculously important to Spy revival, as well as balancing damage resistance and DR timing. He's not easy, but if a Spy proves their worth, let them cook.
Spy has a very small niche - soloing high health robots - but he does it *very* well. The harder the mission is with giants and higher health robots like steel gauntlets, the more useful Spy is. Conversely he's basically useless in earlier waves and easier missions that consist mostly of small robots and tanks.
The only time I get annoyed is if a engineer does not put his dispenser near the action or if a scout does not use mad milk (if he has the item that is), but getting mad at other players for playing a different class then what they want, even if they are winning? I won't ever understand the mental process of such people ...
People think spy is useless when he can completely obliterate a giants health, sap said giants and sap sentry busters, and can collect money mid fight thanks to his disguise kit. His revolver can also be useful at damaging most regular bots, especially if it’s crit booted.
I appreciate the "if he has the item" note, actually. I didn't have Mad Milk for a while, and I always felt terrible playing Scout and being unable to help my team properly. X3
8жжжж8жэ9э9щ@@TeenWithACarrotIDK
“Yeah I know you’re topping the leaderboard and have dealt like half of the damage thus far but spy isn’t meta. Switch off of him please.*
Spy players: No
Mann Up players in a nutshell..
They take it so seriously because they want their pReCiOuS aUsTrAlIuMs but at the end of the day the whole point is still to have fun, and to try and force someone else to play the game YOU want is just nonsense..
@@JacobNGames Mann up is glorified gambling but for non-weebs
@@JacobNGameswhen I do mom I’m doing it for fun
Edit: WOAH WOAH I MEANT MVM AUTOCORRECT
@@Ambulasaurif you edited your comment why not edit that autocorrect then brudda
4:18 beautiful surf.
Always weird how players in the coop mode are more angry and tryhardy than people playing the normal pvp mode
They want their precious golden pans
These people actually suck, some guy tried to kick me from a community mvm server event for playing spy instead of engineer (I told him I don't know how to play engineer, and I was just there to have fun)
I ended up leaving because it wasn't worth my blood pressure to deal with that guy
@@dr.infernous9342likely a tacobot fucking hate those fuck heads how are they not banned for abusing vote kick
@@dr.infernous9342plus you don't even get rewards for completing community made mvm anyway.
To be perfectly fair the mode is locked behind a $1 paywall so the stakes here are technically higher than an average casual match
I get that Spy is a hard class to play in MvM, just as he is in base TF2, and that can be worrying if you see someone who's apparently on their first tour playing as him... but once they start out damaging the whole team, I'd just let them continue doing their thing and shut the hell up.
Tbf that seems like what happened (unless the later shit talk got cut) but I’m willing to bet it was more out of shame than anything
Not as worrying as people with 20+ tour completions failing to deal with a tank. Tours clearly don't mean shit.
I might not one actively playing mvm, but if I would saw some 1 tour player going spy or sniper, I'd be just silently minding my own business and see if they can cook or not
Everybody can be awesome in their own way
They were complaining about spy on literally the best vanilla mission for spy.
Naw that would be something on Decoy where sniper is specifically crappier because of bad sightlines
There’s also a mission on decoy where there’s engineers on every wave and they are the biggest issue besides super scouts. On the mission, the medics also follow the engineers, so you can accidentally end up causing them to Uber. This doesn’t happen with spy backstabs. Spy can also disguise and just stand there until the right moment to sap the sentry, kill the engineer, and then go and rinse and repeat.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Disintegration.
@@wizardii4961 the only annoying part is that sometimes, the game wants you to sap the engineer and not the sentry lol.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK True. I tend to stab the engie first. The the sentry though. You just have to be fast.
Played a few tours as a spy. Can confirm the hardest part about it was not being instantly kicked by the team.
or that one person telling you to switch off of spy and won't even give you a chance to play spy
3:00 Now that there's a perfect sync!
This is making me realize how useful a quick disguise bind is
Isn't there a default button for last disguise already?
@@BulborbStan you are right, I think it's B, but I hadn't played TF2 in a while and never used it too so I forgot
I'm thinking of binding m1 to disguise as enemy spy, so I don't have to waste valuable attention on redisguising
@@dr.infernous9342personally I use the numpad coz using the same disguise over and over makes you stick out like a sore thumb. Also friendly spy disguises are incredibly noticeable when youre not approaching the enemy team since a spy disguised as a spy can’t fake a lot of the enemy spy’s cosmetics
@@dr.infernous9342 real
2:59 “You are lucky we aren’t as huge of assholes compared to people with higher tour counts than us” translation of Fred T-12000’s chat messages.
I hate the toxicity in MvM, especially when it’s disguised as pretending they are nice despite all the previous conflict with everyone prior.
he was the real spy main all along.
so fucking true but the fact its not even mvm its just tf2 in general LOL (the things you said above perfectly describe what it is) mvm is a 99% concentration of the toxic fanbase and initiates the toxicity
I'm glad you stuck to your guns especially since you have good gamesense like specifically targeting the battalions soldier is really nice
“Please we need a pyro for THE tank”
The average rottenburg experience
Mann Up slaves and the Dunning-Kruger effect will always be hand-in-hand.
This is just what only playing 2 cities does to people. They end up thinking that theres a defined team comp you need to use. Playing tours that isnt 2 cities helped me realize that every class can work in mvm so long as you known what youre doing.
Exactly. I only play Two Cities because it's the easiest to find games for (though Gear Grinder and Mecha Engine have been getting a lot of traction lately) and it's got the highest return on investment, and it's kinda fun sometimes, but I hate when players insist on sticking to the meta like glue. If Two Cities wasn't still the most popular tour by far, I would probably almost never actually play it because Mecha Engine and Gear Grinder are both easier and more fun.
Funny part is that 2cities is so god damn easy that you rarely need a specific composition for the team on 95% of the waves.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK sorry for wall of text but yeah honestly i feel like theres way too much empbasis put on team comp "meta" when there should be more focus on communication and game sense, at least in my experience, including on gigachad wave 666 which u can beat with 2 pyro 2 sniper 1 engi and 1 scout or 1 sniper 1 demo 1 pyro 1 medic 1 engi or whatever u want. i think the only thing for meta would be shield medic on certain waves with ungodly crit spam and having an engi for cleanup and bodyblock on those really long ass maps in expert, otherwise u have to chase down big scouts which gets annoying after like the 57th big scout. imo the reason people focus so hard on the team comp meta is because they want the fastest most "efficient" game so they can get to the actual game theyre playing, digital item gambling... obviouslt if someones like walking into walls and shooting other players then yeah thats kinda bad but if you have someone who knows what theyre doing, how to play the class they chose (overall strategy, more useful upgrades) and is ok with taking like idk an extra 10 seconds to finish the full game then i honestly would prefer that to a person only capable of playing two cities soldier and yelling about class picks. ive had the most fun in mvm doing weird stuff that works and had the least fun when hearing ppl get angry at eachother over video games.
everyone: NOOOOO YOU CAN'T PLAY SPY IN MVM IT SUCKS!11!!1!!!!1
Quantum: bonjour
lmao the way how they complain when your only killing the giants but they can't even kill the little bots 💀
Yeah, like... Spy literally removed main problem of the wave and all you need it to get done with everything else
My experience is more like
> pick spy
> instant unanimous votekick because "spy is useless in mvm"
they always want somebody to switch but never willing to switch their class
imagine dealing more damage than everyone as spy, and getting kicked because spy isn't viable.
I think that spy should have an upgrade like sniper does because hey if the man that can be 20 kilometers away from the robots can solo the game, maybe the french man who stabs people should also have something to kill large groups of enemies (emphasis in kill not stunt)
That gives me an idea for a spy equivalent of Sniper's Explosive Headshot-
Shocking Knifeplay. A 3-tier passive ability that can stun bots in a certain radius entirely for 0.5/1/1.5 seconds, exposing their backsides and allowing for real chainstabs.
@@grape_protogen I said kill not stunt
@@fcomolineiro7596 Well, if you have the skill to start a chainstab, what's the difference? How many ways can you find to make spy kill groups outright like a sniper?
@@grape_protogen because killing takes time so you know, not good if you're really in a bad moment
@@fcomolineiro7596 All cards on deck; Spy's entire THING is finding a good moment and stunting enemy forces. Trying to forcefully change his class identity by giving him upgrades that don't fit his identity will just screw up the balance of the game; A good spy can already outscore the other classes in damage against giants alone as seen in the video. Giving him crowd control could wreck the balance.
Excellent video my guy. People can't appreciate that spy is as effective as he is FUNN
the pain of solo queueing is that of biblical proportions
I dont understand how they can say you arent contributing while completely ignoring the kill feed
You would be surprised at what a skilled spy can do in a single game of mvm.
I know I was.
Menwhile in gear grinder: scotland gaming
i swear when the knife backstabbing syncs with the music its just amazing
If only most of Spy's mechanics weren't bugged in mvm, it would be glorious.
Also, I'm jealous of how good this looks, whenever I try the bots snap around 180 after I place a sapper despite the disguise
They are supposed to turn around and check when spy sapped a group of robots.
You need your team to be damaging them from the other side before you start the shredder
Bruh. 9 months and its still like this! I main spy and the exact complaints are there. Spy is good!
"I know you're winning and having fun but you're not winning my way and I'm angry about it."
im always skeptical about spy players but solong as they arnt 5 kills 20 deaths by round 3 i dont really care what they play, i only have a problem with people who play spy but have no idea how to play spy and so they are flat out just taking up a spot that another player could fill
God damn! I love watching you play, your style is so dynamic and independent. As a regular wave-1 spy myself, I haven't noticed too much spy hate on my end, but it's still sad to see people's prejudice against an obviously skilled player that's contributing a lot. Keep proving the naysayers wrong, king!
You make spy mains across the world proud.
God bless!
If the spy is cooking LET THAT MAN COOK
This player did the most damage than everyone else did individually, not surprising given the amount of times he back stabbed during the video but what surprises me most was he was using a speed boosting knife to ensure more back stabs rather than the dead kuni combo like most other spies.
I'm guessing because he rely on the money to heal him and many spies in mvm hasn't mastered it yet. Pubs is already hard enough to handle let alone mvm.
@@ariezonmoney doesn't heal anyone but scout
People complain about big earner and kunai not having both of each other's upsides but there is a health on kill upgrade, you can buy 2 and just not die (unless you suck or get stuck in a really bad situation)
I always start by buying 2 movement, 2 health on kill, for the survivability, then start buying DPS upgrades
the raging teammates being against you and trying to guilttrip you into changing while youre actually just doing your job is the best part of the video
1:33 bro has rapid fire explosive headshots and his excuse is single target backstabs XD
How I see it. If your good at playing spy in MVM. Play Spy in MVM.
Your can focus down the giants, your friendly neighbourhood pyro can take out the normal robots with or without team support (depending on scouts... always the dang scouts)
That reminds me how many times people told me to switch to a different class when I was an Engineer in MvM
Then I casually parried them by dealing the most damage out of the entire team on the tank and normal bots
And no it wasn't the Sentry doing the most damage, it only cleaned up stray bots and spies
wait who the heck ever tells an engineer to switch class?
it's literally always good to have an engineer, because Dispenser and Teleporter are god tier. While typically they don't do the most damage, the sentry is amazing at picking off stragglers that get past.
So many fun police in video games these days. Also they prolly don't even know how good spy can be because they don't have the patience for his high skill ceiling. I understand that, I have the same issue, but I don't instantly label someone as a "bad player" just because they're Spy.
2:52 the backstabs being in tune with the song Is majestic
bro metal crusher was so appropriate for this and i loved it
Without you the team would lose by default.
Small robots is everyone's concern but mainly Scout inflicting slowness from Mad milk and possibly Engineer.
Tank Buster classes are mostly for Pyros, Demos, Soldiers and even Sniper with Carbine + Bushwacka combo. Heavy is actually worse for Tanks thanks to the 75% minigun damage resistance to tanks.
Spy is good at keeping the Giants occupied without shooting at your teammates.
Also I totally didn't expect the Big Earner in play as I regard it as a situational weapon in B or even C tier in casual. But here in MvM it shows to be a good tool for fast escapes combined with the Dead Ringer.
tbh every spy knife is good in mvm, except the YER and maybe spy-cicle
Spy is good for MvM. He's not the best class, but he's very fun to play with. He can instantly kill many big bots and sap everything.
Truly this proves that a skilled Spy that puts in a lot of effort can be just as good as people playing other classes averagely
3:00 those stabs synced up to the music way to well-
My typical rule when I see someone with atleast 5 tours playing spy is, "Let him cook."
Spy in MVM is like Scout in DRG: if he’s REALLY good, you’re never going to see him, but you ARE going to be left wondering where all the high-priority enemies are.
2:58 Man this dude is really new in MvM high tour people dont even care most of the time. Sometimes they even see who came up whit the most dumbass idea just to make the grind on the gamemode more entretaining
"your only stabbing one target" ah alright my bad il use my revolver
Spy is actually a good pick on a few select missions. Don't let meta pushers tell you otherwise.
Which ones? I'm still intermediate-advanced boot camp
i would get why they would get angy if they were playing mann up, becouse spy is very good at one on one giant busting and not very good at groups and tanks, but that was bootcamp, its free, play whatever you want, and beat the waves
also, epic french gameplay
Why is he complaining if you guys are playing Bootcamp? That doesn't look like Mann Up since there's no rewards at the end for the team to look at
I mean at the end you see people's tour count
Well done. Now I'm going to try this in my next Two Cities tour.
4:56 indeed a metal crusher
Spy looks OP here after that lol
That guy was the 'pumpkin-spice latte gurl basic' equivalent in TF2. Call him basic to his face, he needs to hear it.
At least spy is not the worst option for mvm as i see. He can sap robots!
Spy is the only class who can backstab medics (big medics too) and become the god machine killer with speed, damage and critical (you can deal more better damage than other class with just risk your dead ringer.)
A spy could melt a giant's health and they say that he's useless.
Man’s is complaining in a Boot Camp lobby…
Syncing the stabs with the music was really satisfying
Remember: All Clases are Ok For MVM
Spy in MVM is a Nuker character, he's squishy but when utilized properly by a skilled player can make the whole experience smoother by taking out support units (ie. preventing medic ubers), stunning/debuffing with sapper so teammates can deal damage with less erratic movements, executing large bots with high burst damage so team can focus on small bots. He is quite the unsung hero in the right hands.
Tbf
Spy isn't a good choice if its actually a difficult map
Because what spy does, sniper does better
Without dying
Define a difficult map on mann up
@@mohsin3725 There is no skill required to play on Mann Up, that should be stated clear.
i am talking about Community servers where a single wave can turn Spy literally unplayable, when Soldiers get buffed ckockback and sends spy flying on every its stab, or Robot Engineers decides to completely overtake uncovered spots, or literally any other scenario when robots Does Not follow a single path. Spy is a one trick class that can only deal with a singlual enemy at once, and where is multiple coming non stop, Spy as a class, becomes a D tier for its performance. Even a Scout can do more than Spy in damage at this point
@@СлышКупи-ы3е a singular enemy class cant deal with crowd bots no shit
I played alot of community mvm and yes spy wont do shit at those moments but thats why u have another 5 player slots ur not completing the mission all by urself u just there to help killing those giants and a 950 dmg per stab does help
Fred giving me slight taco bot energy
“Don’t use Spy; he’s not good in MVM.”
>Uses Gas Passer once he goes Pyro, which is far more controversial
And still gets outdamaged, proving again that gas pyros are braindead and can't play the game. One time I outdamaged one with the huntsman.
2:56 nice audio sync
Hey how can you practice as spy in mvm? I dont wanna go to an actual mission (even not mann up) cause ik i will be bad and I dont wanna annoy my team.
robot aggro is important to learn as spy so classes who also rely on it (scout, pyro) can help you be a better spy.
i'd recommend advanced missions like bavarian botbash (rottenburg is a good spy map and has a lot of giants). watch mr underscore's spy guide if you havent.
remember that spy can be annoying to play because of aggro shenanigans and dying as him is normal
Don't worry, everyone's bad in normal missions, just follow the meta and you're practically guaranteed at least 3d place
(Speed, attack speed, armour penetration, health on kill to 2, robot sapper power to 1-2, damage resistances, regen, and jump boost)
Haven't played with kunai yet (speed is way too good for money collection), but just do everything minus the health on kill
Gotta learn how to balance them on your own, play a bunch of normal missions you'll be fine
"Ok, backstab the tank next time"
Boi hes a support class, he exist to give support by killing enemies from behind
(Mostly the big Robots)
I love play spy
Sapper enemy sentry and teleporter
Kill half of crit giant Demo + Uber medic far when I see someone chat" spy didn't anything only do sapper bot engineer"
Man that knife must be so dull after the spy dealing so many back stabs
Why do people have to be so Nitpicky about who class they get pick in MvM I understand tf2 has a toxic fanbase but come on
For the first time in my life
*Mvm player asking and wanting a pyro on their team*
0:49 name of the music please
Sonic Mania studioplis act 1
@@Ray-pd8ge thanks
"It ain't stupid if it works." Sun tzu probably
While yes it looks like everything ended up fine, not communicating with your team and not making compromises can lead to discourse where there wouldn’t be normally. Ur a good spy, but when others have to adapt and change because you WANT to play spy, it gets people upset and can lead to losses where you would have easily crushed it. I also liked the part where you synced the bomb tick tock to the sonic song
This video, you have earned my sub, destroyer of robots >:)
Why is this never the type of spy we get in my games 😭
Cause people don't want the mains to go through a training arc to get good even if it would cost some games to be on the same level as this player in the video
best compliment that guy can muster is 'i know you are not that terrible' lol what a try hard
Mvm spy main here, goddamn, I do half the damage you do and still think im a pretty good spy guess i got some giant trickstabbing to learn
And: I've watched this too many times
And 2: Classic scout at the frontlines marking and milking giants even though the rest of the team is miles away
And 3: Have reached this level of gameplay, is extremely fun
SILENCE, player greatly contributing to the team
a person with higher tour count is talking
these kinds of people are why the n and r words are in my vocabulary
What is the r word? I only know the n word because I'm a latino so only some memes reach my country
@@OmegaM3TE0R r word is "retard" and it recently has started to be considered a slur
@@eyes5204 Thanks for the clarification
babe if you got slurs in your vocabulary over a video game you got some personal problems to work out lmfao
@@poochy2479 yes lol also do NOT call me babe
I appreciate you timing the clips with the music
No, not really feeling ya. Kinda agreeing with the others.
the backstabbing is in beat with the music :o
New players are probably gonna use this video as an excuse to play spy in MvM and giving their team a harder time
I don't see the problem
It's called getting good. Someone has to start somewhere, and if they're willing to put the time in making Spy work, than why not?
@@RvBnerd618 There are some people in MvM who is being a disservice to his team like picking Pyro but not doing his job. And when people politely ask him to switch class, they will defend themselves by saying that they’re a Tacobot wannabe and thay just want to enjoy the game. I’m not saying that playing Spy is bad or Pyro is bad, i’m not a Tacobot user and i despise them. I’m just saying that if you’re doing poorly at the game and you’re just making your team an inconvenience AND you are not listening to them EVEN they ask you politely. You’re just an ass
@@RvBnerd618 And also, if you’re really good at Spy and you’re really helping the team then i say, go do it, go play Spy, it epic
The mvm spy experience is usually seeing the kick screen