Unicorn Overlord | Issuing a Correction + Examples of Doing Tactics Right
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- I messed up in presenting how tactics work in my previous video. Here is my correction, fully explained, as well as a reason (tho not an excuse) as to why I struggle with this system in particular.
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00:00 Intro
01:24 What I Messed Up
05:36 The Correction
12:18 Why I Struggle With It 
Игры
A better way to understand this system when it comes to picking targets, and things like what the difference between Condition1 and Condition 2 is (and yes the order CAN matter in some cases!) and how they combine, is to realize that each condition can act as either a *filter* or a *sort* operation on a list of possible targets. Here's how it works:
1) The system generates a default list of possible targets for the character (this default order is even documented in-game and relates to character position).
2) Condition 1 is checked, if it exists. If it is a filter condition, like "Back Row", then it removes all targets from the list that do not meet that condition. So "Back Row" would remove all front-row targets from the list, leaving only the back row ones (if any) remaining. If it is a sort condition, like "Highest AP", it sorts the list with a "stable sort", meaning that targets that are equal in a stat will retain their previous position. So if everyone has 1 AP, nothing will happen, but if the 3rd target has 2AP, they will get sorted to the top of the list and become the #1 target.
3) Condition 2 is checked and its filter or sort is applied to the result of the filter/sort of Condition 1. In most cases, the order of Condition 1 & Condition 2 won't matter, however, if both conditions are a sort then the order can matter. Usually Condition 2's sort will just completely override Condition 1's. However, if there are targets have equal stats in whatever Condition 2 is sorting by, since a "stable sort" is used, then the order of those targets in relation to each other would depend on Condition 1's sorting.
For example, if Condition 1 sorted by "prioritize back row", all the back row targets would be at the top of the list. Then if Condition 2 is "highest HP", then the targets will be sorted by HP. However, if there are 2 units with the same HP, one in the front row and one in the back row, than the back row one will be earlier in the list. So, Condition 1 as a sort CAN matter, but in general, if both are sort styles, Condition 2 will essentially override Condition 1. If either condition is a filter, the order won't matter.
4) If the list is empty after filter(s) applied, then this line is skipped, go to the next line. Otherwise, target the top entry in the resulting list after all of the above is done to sort and filter the list.
With the above, all you need to know is which conditions are filters and which are sorts. Things like "prioritize" and "highest" and "lowest" are sorts, and the rest are filters. Hope that helps!
Helps? This is God damn phenomenal! I will absolutely be referring back to this, thank you so much Rubikant!
@@TitaniumLegmanNo problem! There are some more details that I think further clarifies how it all works, but apparently you can't edit a pinned comment (thanks for the pin though!). I'll include my improved description of the system in a reply.
Spot on, I think! This is how I've been interpreting it more or less, and behavior matches up with my predictions based on those assumptions. There is, in fact, a lot of precise mechanical detail in the depths of the in-game guides.
@@TitaniumLegmanI wrote a comment on another video elsewhere that I think describes the system a bit better than this comment. Here is what I said:
Despite the name, these aren't really "conditions" so much as "operations performed on a list of targets," meaning that there actually is a difference between Condition 1 and Condition 2 in some cases. There are actually 3 different types of operations, and they are identified by the red text in the Condition description at the bottom of the screen. They are:
CHECK - "The skill will not activate otherwise."
FILTER - "The skill will not activate if there are no applicable targets."
SORT - "The skill will override default targeting rules."
(some of them are missing the red text, but you should be able to figure out what they are by their name, like all "prioritize" conditions are SORTs).
All of these Tactics Conditions relate to selecting a target for a skill, or doing nothing and moving on to the next Tactic if no target is found. When it is time to select a target for a skill, the game does the following steps in order:
1) Generate a default list of possible targets for the skill. For AP skills this default list is well-documented in the game's help section and relates to character positions. For PP skills it depends on the specific skill and may only include a single possible target (i.e. skills that buff an ally before they attack will only get a "list" containing that single ally).
2) Run Condition1's operation on the list, making it be SORTED, FILTERED, CLEARED, or LEFT AS-IS.
3) Run Condition2's operation on the resulting list, further SORTING or FILTERING it, or CLEARING it or leaving it AS-IS.
4) If the target list is now empty, go to next Priority and start over at step 1 (meaning generating a new list from scratch).
5) Use the skill on the first target in the list (and possibly hitting other targets in the case of area attacks).
For steps 2 and 3, here is how each operation works:
* CHECK - If the condition being checked is true, nothing happens. If it is false, the list is CLEARED of all targets.
* FILTER - Each target still in the list is checked, and any that do NOT meet the condition are removed from the list.
* SORT - The list is reordered based on a specific stat for each target, in either ascending or descending order. In the case of things like "Prioritize Scouts", it means Scouts are sorted first before non-scouts, but otherwise it is things like sorting from lowest to highest HP and the like. These sorts are "stable", meaning that if multiple targets have the same value for the stat, they will retain their previous order.
Note that if both Conditions are SORT operations, than the order DOES matter, because Condition2 will re-sort the list after Condition1 sorted it already. This is why some people claim Condition2 has "priority", because its sorting will happen last and thus potentially override any sorting from Condition1. That doesn't mean Condition1's sorting will do nothing, however.
For example, if Condition1 was "Prioritize Scouts" and Condition2 was "Lowest HP", then the only way Condition1 would matter would be in the case where 2 targets were tied for lowest HP with the exact same HP value, but one of them was a scout and one of them was not. Otherwise, if any target has a lower HP than all the scouts do, then that target would be selected instead, meaning the "Prioritize Scouts" sort would have done nothing in that case.
Reversing the order (so Condition1 is "Lowest HP" and Condition2 is "Prioritize Scouts") could easily change the result though, causing the list to first be sorted by HP, and then by "is a scout or not". This means the list will first contain scouts, ordered from lowest to highest HP, and then contain non-scouts, ordered from lowest to highest HP. Thus if there are any scouts at all in the initial list, one of them will definitely be the target no matter what HP amounts the non-scouts have.
Also note that the target list may be enemies and it may be allies, depending on the skill. In some cases, as mentioned before, it might only be a single character (such as a passive skill that activates to buff an ally just before they attack), meaning that a SORT Condition won't do anything at all.
For skills that respond to enemy attacks by performing an action on an ally (such as "Cover" skills), the list that is being filtered and sorted will contain *all allies that are being attacked*, NOT the enemy attacker! However, the attacker can still be checked in these cases via CHECK conditions available in the "Attack Type" category of conditions.
this is sick! thx man
The tactics system can be pretty tricky. We're all in this together!
Let us cling together
In my experience the conditions are basically filtering/reordering the enemy "list" based on the conditions. So "Most AP" will find the enemy(s) tied for the highest AP value and remove all the rest from the list. The "Back Row" condition will then ask if those *remaining enemies* are in the back row. This means if enemies in the front row all have higher AP than the enemies in the back row, the back row will be eliminated from the tactic before Condition 2 is checked.
TL;DR: You should probably swap Condition 1 and 2 so that it first filters out the front row, THEN looks for highest AP in the remaining back row.
This was my understanding too. I hope you're correct; as a software developer, that makes the most sense to me, lol
Yes, all the debate in the big comment thread about how it works is over complicating it with talk about of conditions overriding each other and debates about if they are AND or OR operations. Once you understand that it is not actually "conditions" in the coding sense at all, just filter and sort operations on a list, running Condition 1's filter/sort first followed by Condition 2's and then targeting the top of the resulting list (or skipping the action entirely if the list is empty after the filters are applied), then the way the game works exactly matches what one would expect.
Don't sweat it... I'm such a newbie at this genre I'd never have been able to tell the difference!! Taking my lumps learning Tactics Ogre: Reborn
Memory struggles are relatable. That's the #1 way my ADHD manifests, and it's often quite a hinderance even when it comes to gaming. I still use tons of yellow notebooks while playing stuff so i can remember stuff.
Really cool of you to share this personal info, for those of us who have the same challenges. Hopefully your knee is manageable these days, that doesn't sound fun at all. And really glad you beat it!
Much love man, keep up the awesome coverage and content!
Something useful if you use her - for everyone else in the party add a condition "not frozen" to their attacks. That way they don't hit the unit that's frozen since they are effectively neutralized. You would just need a last attack for each person without the condition so they will actually kill the frozen unit. Also I have a save with 20 mins left. Units in 12 to 17 range and all available items in the game, saved at the Lv13 repeatable. I am gonna be spending the next 2 weeks testing stuff to get a better feel for it. If you want me to test anything for ya just let me know.
Much appreciated Sidra! I'll hit ya up if I think of anything. 😁
Yep defintely didn't think about the fact that in this unit you probably don't want your other characters attacking the frozen enemy either.
I kind of wish there were more tactics pages to make a very detailed ruleset.
@@barcster2003me too, but i think they made conscious decison not to overcomplicate things. If this game does well that might be an addition in a sequel
Note: if you do use the "not frozen" clause, make sure you have an extra icebolt underneath to just target the enemy that is "lowest hp" or "lowest mag def" etc. Otherwise if you have extra AP, and the remaining enemy is frozen, your witch simply wont attack
CoffeePotato said that one of the best things about this demo is that over the hours, we the community keep learning more and more things about this game. He just learned about the visibility system in the forest and I may have shown him an item he missed related to Auch. In a way, this game is what the devs of Infinite Undiscovery wanted out of players playing their game. Although, this game has a slightly (and only slightly 😂) better title and a MUCH better game.
Your enthusiasm for the game is infectious. That's why I started watching You. ❤
Hey it's all good man don't be sorry! I am glad you figured it out and it speaks volumes to your character to make a video in order to correct the information for your viewers. I loved FF12 because I've always been good at coding so this felt natural to me but I totally understand how it could be confusing for some people. We all have our strengths and weaknesses but as long as we learn from our mistakes and keep doing our best that's all that matters. I am looking forward to your continued coverage of this game, your presentation and demeanor have been fantastic!
I’m glad you had that mess up cause now I’ve learned so much more than what I knew.
I really enjoy your videos and the way you explain things. I think you're amazing! Mistakes happen.
"Making a mistake isn't the measure of a man. It's wether they are willing to fix it."
-some famous person, I'd bet.
Man I appreciate your content for RPG/Tactics game. I was also planning to start my channel for these types of games.
chill man, great videos and no worries !
We are all learning together, I always enjoy your content.
Love the great work dude, keep it up
Super glad you’re still with us! God bless dude!
Just want to say I relate to you on the memory issues and struggle to learn new things. What you described is what I'm experiencing after having covid - my mind was never the same. As said by someone else, we're in this together and will figure it out. :)
Thanks for also putting together a new video with the corrections. I watched the old one and tried to read the comments for corrections but got a bit confused without the visual.
Looking forward to your new content!! Very excited for this game to release.
Appreciate these videos, I wasn’t going to preorder the game but the content you present has been exciting enough to have me try the demo to pre-order. Thanks for all the content!
It can be a little tedious to set up properly, but if you ever want to double check that your stuff is functioning you can use the Mock Battle system at any fort to make your squad fight another unit and set up that other unit to test each of your conditions, so for example for the witch set up a normal squad, see how the targeting works and make sure she's hitting the back row unit with high ap (if you can, set up a front line unit with more ap to make sure), then move everything to the front and put an armored unit in and fight again to see if she goes to condition 2. Could be good content for videos as well to demonstrate the tactics set ups in action though it is more work.
Enjoyed this video (and the previous one !), glad to see a correction and definitely no worries about mistakes, I would assume most of us are here cause we were looking for videos on how to fix our own mistakes we were making in our tactics set ups (at least that's why I was lol)
Thank you for feeling comfortable enough to share these parts of your life. Regardless, you are a well-spoken, articulate, and intelligent person. You have helped me so much with this game, and I get nothing but good vibes from these videos! (And to be honest, I was on the forklift at work and was listening to your “steal these teams/squads” video, and I thought to myself, “His name, more than likely, has significance to his life.”) AND NOW…. Back to UNICORN OVERLORD!!!! *says with the voice*. 😂
Thank you for the kind words Jason, I appreciate them a lot. I'm glad that I've helped you enjoy UO more, since it's such a phenomenal game! Stay safe at work, yeah? 😁
I didnt see the video you are correcting here but the explanation in this video was very helpful. Learning together make it easier to understand. I tried messing around with this in the demo but i ran out of time before i really got the hang of it.
You're vids are very helpful. Keep up the great work
Your tactics video was got me through Tricorns ride or whatever that early quest is. Youre the only tuber ive seen truly covering this game so im looking forward to whats next from you. Might be worth mentioning that even broad strokes like targeting lowest hp makes the game a lot easier.
I'm glad you beat it! Plenty of stuff to come, so I hope it continues to help ya. 😁
Thanks for issuing the correction!
No worries man I’m still looking forward to this😊
All good man. All the support!
All good man, good on you for doing your best
Its all good man, great video.
I once messed up a program by using = instead of +=, so I get making 'programing' mistakes;
Your original setup works if you set your tactics to back row instead of prioritize back row. I just tested it vs the thief merc you can have mock battles against in the fort where you can recruit thieves. I set icebolt 1 to back row + highest initiative, icebolt 2 to scout, and icebolt 3 to lowest hp. Yahna ignored the two thieves in the frontline and attacked the housecarl with substantially lower initiative. I think someone also mentioned it here but if you just want to hit someone who's fast and bench them for the battle you can set her to just highest initiative and set everyone else to avoid attacking frozen enemies.
Yeah i was just thinking that all he needed to do was switch the conditions around and change it to only back row.
Also im loving this game and loving all the content keep up the good works tom!
the minute i heard "cancer survivor" i knew you were going to say "Chemo brain". my mother suffers from this, and i know how frustrating can be. congrats on surviving cancer and we can totally figure this out together!!
I appreciate the validation on this lapniappe. Not everyone is so understanding. I hope your mother is doing well congrats to her too! 😁
I don’t think you’re bad at this game. You do very well and your videos are informative. You are still sharp. Try not to take it so hard cause there is not a bunch of people thinking you don’t know what you’re talking about. We tune in to learn and be entertained. And you are above average for sure when it comes to these games
Thanks so much for this video. I like to think of myself as a fairly genius person (yes that's self aware) but between this and the differing values based on placement in the unit, I feel like I'm just randomly plugging away not understanding what I'm doing. I went back to your channel knowing you'd have something clear on it. And also, since you first misunderstood the system it makes me feel better that I'm not alone. I do think the game can do a much better job training up the player how to use this.
Hey @TitaniumLegman love the channel!
Didn't love UO at first, like not at all, but after your channel and some success it has become my favorite game in a while.
One critique, why not have defend missions? Survive a time limit, hold a fort type mission. Seems like it could be fun
Something I discovered during a second demo run (sadly) is that when you are setting tactics when you select one it gives you a pretty specific explanation for what the tactic targets on the bottom left. Also a little red warning if the game thinks you may be messing with something. It's been helpful this run
Where it let's you know that it overrides default targeting?
@@TitaniumLegman yeah, if you highlight the condition, it tells you how it will work in more detail
I like to think of it as “AND” statements for the conditions.
So for the example in the video it’s “Highest AP AND in the back row”
But IF there is no back row then it goes to the next statement
If they had 1 more condition slot that would be massive.
I havent played with the tactics system myself much yet (and wont untill the 8th, demo too short time machine where?) BUT...
As far as I understand the system, thinking like a programmer, we go from top to bottom in a loop. IF we find a set of conditions that match, we fire off said skill. In the case of Icebolt THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A UNIT WITH THE MOST AP (Tested this before submitting, 0AP seems to be "an ammount of AP that is 0, therefore this rule ALWAYS fires ie. never have MOST AP as Condition 1 unless that is all you care about and that is the only targeting rule).
An example Witch targeting priority would look like the following:
Icebolt -> Armored -> Most AP
Icebolt -> Lowest HP -> Most AP
Magick Conferral
Condition 1 always applies, Condition 2 is checked if multiple targets fill the first condition
What this SHOULD do is the following (needs testing, not 100% on this, dont have a witch where I stopped playing, but tested with 3 on 3 squads with "comparable targeting priorities"):
Is there an armored target? If Yes. Which armored target has the most AP? SHOOT THAT. (This should only trigger if there is ANY Armored target)
Was there no armored target? There was not. Which target has the lowest HP AND the highest AP? SHOOT THAT. ( There will always be a target with the lowest HP, if we have multiple targets with the lowest HP, shoot the one with the most AP left)
Magick Conferral will use default targeting, whatever that happens to be?
Now, where things get "Interesting" is with the PRIORITIZE ARMORED rule. What this does SPECIFICALY I have no clue. How it works in detail remains a mystery. However, whereas ARMORED is a SET HARD RULE that is always applied (if an armored target exists, no matter what, thats whats getting nuked), Prioritize Armored IS NOT a hard rule.
What I mean by this is that Prioritize seems to take into account other factors, like another attack rule after it like "Infantry -> Lowest HP" actualy triggering even with an armored target on the field and targetable, when HITTING THAT INFANTRY UNIT WOULD RESULT IN A KILL. Prioritize target has some internal logic that either checks other rules in your Tactics kit OR rolls the dice wheather to trigger it or not.
Now. From all of THIS how would I go about making the targeting priority list YOU want for your witch:
Icebolt -> Prioritize Back Row -> Highest AP (or Prioritize Caster/Archer/Whatever if you specificaly want to go for a particular backliner)
Icebolt -> Prioritize Armored -> Highest AP
Iceblot -> Lowest HP
Magick Conferral
This SHOULD first target anything in the back row that has AP left.
If the back row has no AP it will target any armored unit that still has AP.
If there are no units in the back line and there are no armored units, target whatever has the lowest current HP
What this should ALSO do, if there is a target within range to be killed by your witch, they will target that unit instead. Maybe. Like I said, "Prioritize target" has a logic to it that I cant quite grasp with this few units per squad and limited testing capabilities. But I would be thrilled to hear how that one works for you.
So, does having two conditions on one line NOT combine them then? That's what I figured it would do, making Yahna scan the Backline for the highest ap, then if there's no Backline, move to the armored condition.
Is condition 1 + condition 2 not just an AND check? ie if condition 1 is true (highest AP = always true) but condition 2 (back row) is not true, it will still execute based on condition 1?
@@TitaniumLegman It checks both conditions. The thing is some of the conditions are a little generalized. For example highest initiative means it will never fail because every unit has an initiative so you need to pair it with a more restrictive thing. For example back row with highest initiative targets only the back row then gives priority based on initiative. But I think I would put something like target armors first if I wanted that to happen because otherwise it won't target armors until the entire backrow is gone because they all have an initiative.
@@TitaniumLegmanBased on the testing I did before submitting this (limited, only 3 on 3 fights, really need a higher unit cap to be 100% comfortable Im right, but what I can test does match up) Condition 1 is the priority condition. It will always trigger if it can. Condition 2 is ONLY checked if Condition 1 triggers AND multiple targets match Condition 1. For example having Prioritize Armored -> Lowest HP followed by Lowest HP -> Highest AP targeted the lowest HP unit that still had an action left when both targets were at exactly 32 HP, only one had AP left, and the armored unit had died, but targeted the armored unit with 0 AP if it was still alive.
If I made Lowest HP Condition 1 on the first attack row, NO other condition ever triggered. If I made Condition 1 Armored and Condition 2 Lowest HP, then removed all armored Units from that squad, neither Condition 1 or Condition 2 triggered because there was NO armored unit. Condition 2 only applied when Condition 1 COULD. BUT If there was an armored unit and I set Condition 2 to whatever, the amored unit always got targeted, only varying targets when I had 2 armored units in the squad as if only armored units were valid targets, thus proving that Condition 1 is the priority and Condition 2 only applies if Condition 1 does.
So yes, in a way they do combine, BUT and this is a VERY IMPORTANT BUT, Condition 1 is the master of this equation. It always applies first, and if there is anything in Condition 1 that can always apply, we never check any other row of conditions. So setting Most AP, Highest Phys Attack, Most HP, Least HP, to the Condition 1 slot, we never get past that row.
Condition 1 should either be a specific condition like ARMORED, or have the Prioritize X condition so it will "sometimes" ignore that condition in favour of a later condition, whatever the specifics of Prioritize are, and Im not sure we will know the specifics of Prioritize untill the game comes out or somebody has several 4+ man squads at high levels with a large variety of combinations of units they can pit against eachother.
I could play more to get a 4th squadmember and have a sufficient sample size to be sure, but that would only make waiting till the 8th that much more painfull.
@@Dartanisit's the reverse condition 2 is being checked first then if there are multiple targets that meets condition 2 it checks condition 1, this is easily demonstrated by testing against 2 different unit type, like caster and scout, put condition 2 prioritize scout, condition 1 prioritize caster, you'd predict that your unit will target the caster because it's condition 1 but the game does otherwise, it will target caster instead
Nothing but love!
15 thousand subs, Tom m’man! It was quite a delight to see UO give you that upwards nudge this past… wait, was it not even a week!? Aargh! In fairness it’s probably beaten by TO’s rate, but even so… Encouraging, right mate? ^.^
The fact you’re so quick to create a corrective video and own up to your (quite understandable) errors just proves you deserve the boost. Even the smallest of justices in the world is worth pointing out; as always you have such a wonderful community being built and it’s quite invigorating even for a viewer like me to see newer names in the comments section.
As always, take care my good fellow. Looking forward to the full release and how hog wild you get to go then. :-D
If it comes at the expense of FFVII Rebirth - which would probably be better after playing “Integrade” (and I’m not just saying this as an eternal Yuffie lover) and won’t be as overlooked by the bigger names - then so be. One thing that comes as a net benefit to which being that you’re never not going to have stuff you look forward to adding to the channel… never ought there be nothing in life to look forward to, lest you lose your passion. And it’s the shared communities that are forming which make this all worth it. ;-)
you can try out your tactics vs units near the barracks. this will help you try out the tactics immediately and with no risks
Thank you
Titanium Leg Man unintentionally teaching tactics while teaching the tactics system. The Irony! 😂
I think the only way to confirm is it correct is to test out in my opinion. Especially when we can do mock battles at the fort. I am just not sure if condition 1 and 2 get compared together as a group or do they compare condition 1 and then 2 before proceeding to the next tactic in the list.
One thing that I’ve noticed is that the prioritize row commands are actually unique in that unlike other prioritize commands they will always apply when possible. So if you have prioritize back row as condition 1 and prioritize armor as condition 2, if any other prioritize skill was in condition 1 the armor priority would be considered first, but since prioritize row is special you will always attack the back row, even if armors only appear in the front row
Hmmm mm, that's perplexing.
Yeah, looking at the gambits, my immediate thought was back to all of those logic circuit diagrams from intro computer science courses. NAND and XOR and all the fun ones.
Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure a programmer has probably made a little script to double check their gambits already. If something looks code-y, it can totally be tested in with code!
on my yahna i personally run:
icebolt: armored->highest AP
icebolt: lowest hp->highest AP
this means i kill tanks 1st then any other after. i dont worry too much about the threat in the backlines as once the tank is out of the way, the team striker can handle those (like the assaulting lance/slice loop of knights/paladins).
Mock Battles at fortresses are great ways to test this because you can contrive all sorts of formations to ensure that your setup is correct.
I hope this shows Atlus and vanillaware that ogre battle has a huge cult following! I hope it’s a huge success and it looks like it will be.
I do wish they had class changing.
I am just starting the game, so this comment maybe irrelevant, But I was hoping for a reputation system like ogre battle had. Especially since it seems you never accountable for letting evil people free. It always seems to be the best choice to let everyone go. Then have an ending that reflects it.
If you swapped “Back Row” to be the first condition and then “Prioritize Highest Initiative” wouldn’t that work?
If there isn’t anyone in the back row, the tactic fails and then it moves on. If there is, there would always be a “highest initiative”, even if there is only one unit. If there are more, all the better as it would figure out who has the highest initiative between them.
Also, don’t be too hard on yourself. You are obviously willing to correct mistakes, all of which we make. Great channel and great content. Thanks for all you do!
I don't know if you know but there's one "hidden item" in the tower just next to the western village in the swamps (where you recruit the witch -> Frostband Tome. You can do some awesome tactics with that :D
I didn’t learn anything from this video. Your previous video was reliable. I made minor tweaks. But still used your information for my second play through.
I was able to get through 8 hours of content from the demo and get my units to close to lvl 10.
My first play through I had only reached lvl 7
Well, I'm glad that my previous video did enough to help!
Im still not sure you are using the tactics correctly.
Order matters and you have to sometimes force what you want.
But yeah if you put something like lowest HP it will not move down because there will always be an enemy with the lowest HP. However not every enemy will be an armored unit so the armored restriction should come first. In your fixed example it first looks at initiative then it looks at the back row which will kind of get you what you want but i think you would want back row then highest initiative in that back row.
Basically think out the logic then once it fails it will move on to the next part. I have also made mess ups and realize you need to be very particular to get a desired result.
I agree. To achieve what he is trying to do. Icebolt > back row > highest initiative will work.
yep if you are trying to freeze the fastest thing in the back row target back row and highest initiative.
don't forget to set a default one that activates in general so you don't have a unit just not using their abilites because all the previous steps failed.
I looked and you want the ones that say will not activate if no applicable targets first. The ones that say will override are ones that can keep activating for example since every character has an initiative just setting highest initiative will never fail. Prioritize will prioritize but will not move down unless paired with a bigger restriction.
For example I did a test in a mock battle with anubin. I had him use crush on the back row with highest initiative and then had him fight a unit with no back row. Crush did not activate because there was no back row. Instead it jumped to my next tactic smash.
yea just like in coding, you want to put the more stricter/ harder to be meet conditions first. and less strict/easier to meet conditions last. the most ap condition wont allow the priority to ever goto 2. so he has the same issue as before. All good though were all learning with you mate !
@@sisi6679 yep I see the problem it will just target enemies in the back row and that AP thing won't really matter because of course a number of enemies have AP so it won't fail. It defintely needs to be a later step because it can fail but less so than possibly other conditions.
The unit type is a good one because if that unit type isn't present it will fail.
Like for example armors I can guarantee that the casters will target them first if I want to.
So for example you could have the thief try to take out any archers as his first tactic in the hopes you kill it before they can shoot you.
You defintely need to think about order also. Thanks for pointing out that flaw I had in the logic. It also depends on your unit setup. Some tactics will make more or less sense depending on your setup.
Can you do highest physical attack, then unit with most AP on the 1st skill? That way even if the strongest unit is on the front row, she will hit them with freeze?
But then this will also almost never use the 2nd option because of her high initiative, so you can move the target armor on the first slow to prioritize that. I guess depending on what you want her to do, bust the tank or stall their damage.
wouldn't it work if you switched your condition 1 and 2:
condition 1: back row (only consider back row, if none, move to next tactics row or just don't use attack)
condition 2: highest initiative (now sort the back row by initiative, if they are equal then just target whoever is first)
this would give you the highest initiative unit in the back row.
I THINK you could still use highest initiative if you'd like when paired with the explicite "Back Row". I'd think that the explicite back row would still ONLY target something in the back row, and if there are none, it should default to the Armored option in slot number 2. Then, if no Armored units, it should hit the enemy with lowest HP.
Everybody makes mistakes. It's okay.
I'm in a pinch with your videos. On the one hand I feel like I should figure out those systems by myself and also dodge spoilers, on the other hand I'm in awe of the game's depth as I'm a complete strategy noob and impatient.
Having a full time job makes learning the intricacies of Unicorn Overlord's systems a daunting task. Alas I'm too hyped and will always click on new content. 😅
Oh I feel ya on that. I work just shy of full time at another job too haha.
Great video!
Also, I feel like there might be a way to make yahna’s second icebolt skill even more effective. The goal of that setting is to try to kill/freeze an enemy armored unit so that they don’t guard for their allies, right? But in the case where the enemy unit has 2 armored units for some reason (maybe double hoplite, or maybe a hoplite plus fighter or some other armor), she’d just end up picking one of the two by whatever logic the game uses to pick between multiple available targets, probably hitting whatever one happened to be closer to her. In that case, I feel like it might be even better to specify the highest hp unit as a secondary condition.
That way, if there are multiple armored units, your fast magic attack is going into whichever one is the healthiest/hardest for the non-magic attacks in your unit to deal with. If icebolt happens to one-shot the enemy, then you’re left with one low health armored unit for your other actions, while if the hurt armored unit happened to be closest to yahna (maybe her first combat with them didn’t quite kill it), then you still have 1 armored unit left to guard, but in that scenario the one left to guard might have even more hp to potentially survive more guard activations to last longer
getting brain damage from all the times i’ve messed up tactics because it was like “hp > 50%” when i meant “< 50%”. always do mock battles and just watch if it does what you think -_-
edit: i totally get the memory thing. i have memory loss and issues as well. fortunately it doesn’t mess with my math stuff but it makes me bad at other games i get it.
Can you put Back Row in condition 1, and then choose the specific in condition 2? In my brain that works better...
In all my testing, condition 2 trumps condition 1. I set condition 1 to armored and 2 to lowest physical defense. It chose the 2nd every time, which was the cleric. I switched the conditions around and it chose the 2nd that time as well, which was a hoplite this time. This test was Alain vs a hoplite and a cleric.
I tried this again with conditions 1(armored). 2(scout). It always targeted the scout first. This test was using Alain vs a hoplite and a thief.
I’ve been testing these in mock battles.
Yeah most of these conditions are reording a list of targets so the first condition sorts the list of targets by armoured or not and then the 2nd condition is reording it to be lowest defense units.
My way of thinking of it, tactic options fall into one of two types: eliminating targets or prioritizing targets. If, by using the elimination type options, the number of potential targets for a tactic is reduced to zero then the tactic is skipped and the next tactic is tried. There is more nuance but those are the key points.
So just out of curiosity. When you have Icebolt 3 different times. Could you take the third priority Icebolt that says Lowest HP and simply put that on condition two of priority two and get the same effect?
I think the way to do it is “if a then b” and “if b then c”
So look at what you’re interested in trying to do.
If Yahna needs to attack the back row first, then that needs to be the first command
If Yahna needs to attack highest AP then that needs to be first command
If you want highest AP in the back row, then it goes back row -> highest AP
Hmm, I follow the logic, gotcha.
There are no mistakes in strategy games just happy accidents- Bob Ross maybe
Thank you VC 😂 I choose to believe Bob Ross would have been an avid strategy gamer.
Personally think "Icebolt - Armored" should be first. Because if the armored target tanks 2 or 3 characters attacks, then the only one actually doing damage to back row enemies is Yahna. In the case Yahna has highest initiative and goes first, Yahna probably takes out 1 character in the back row while 2-5 of your other characters beat on a tank and waste their attacks that could have been better spent on the back row enemies had the Armored enemy not been there
Your situation with memory makes sense, but you didn’t fail here. I haven’t played the game yet, but I knew something was off about that build in the other video. I couldn’t say why though. It was a logical reason, not a I haven’t played yet reason.
On the same token, you wanted precision, and the alternate builds don’t offer that. The build was a tricky cocktail of “surely we can have this”. I’d say most people have run into that issue in some form.
just want to let you know that condition 2 is checked first then if there are ties or multiple targets that meets this, condition 1 is then checked, this can be easily tested by having 2 different class unit as a target test squad, put something like prioritize scout in condition 2 and prioritize casters in condition 1, intuition dictates that caster will be targeted however in game it will target the scout instead because it's on condition 2
What... Why would it be set up like that??
no idea, the game logic is weird like this for tactics
@@rei1556 well appreciate ya letting me know. The game was rigged from the start! 😫
The fact you can laugh it off on 'brain damage' deserves alot of respect and being a cool guy
It is using Boolean logic so condition 1 AND condition 2. meaning both condition 1 and condition 2 need to be true for it to work. So if you set for C1 for scouts and C2 for flying it will never work unless somehow there is a secret unit that is both scout AND flying. Hard conditions NEED to be true or the whole thing will fail so be careful that C1 and C2 don't conflict with each other.
Not there is a slight exception and that is for the prioritize flag as it makes the condition optional (as in its preferred but doesn't need to be true) also in a situation with prioritize in C1 and C2, C1 will take priority over C2.
Hey Tom, love the videos! Thanks for sharing about yourself.
Actually this may sound weird and dissimilar but I've recovered from 20 years of Lyme disease (12 years misdiagnosed, with no proper treatment), and I'm just going to toss out some recommendations.
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Also if you have dry skin, take Epsom salt baths (or foot baths) to increase magnesium levels.
Besides the Lyme, I also have autism and ADHD, and I can't tell you how much I've improved from this over time in terms of my cognition. I also really recommend a very specific kind of meditation called "discarding", if interested feel free to reply and I'll share more!
Thanks for all the suggestions DL! I do have Saurkraut and Sourdough with breakfast quite regularly, exercise, and have begun moisturizing, so it's good to know I'm on the right path!
@TitaniumLegman That's awesome, you really are on the right track! Don't forget the CBD though, it does 3 things: 1. Anti-inflammatory 2. Eliminates harmful microbes (but leaves good ones intact) 3. Breaks biofilms which are a big reason injuries don't heal properly. You can find confirmed studies on it all, it's really been a huge help for me. Wishing you so much luck and a great recovery!
based on what you said and what others have commented, according to my own experience, for you it should be first "icebolt tactic" you want condition 1 to "back row" and condition 2 "most AP" leave the rest as is. that way you're essentially telling Yahna,
If there's a "back row" then "target the enemy with most AP" (1st tactic)
And if there's no "back row" then "whoever is armored" (2nd tactic)
If not, "whoever has the least amount of HP" (3rd tactic)
It's easy enough to test your builds through mock battles. That will show you what happens with the conditions. Your initial setup should be fine, provided you change 'priority back' to just back. That way if there is members in the back row, the fastest person should be attacked. If there is no-one in the back, then the skill should be ignored that round. If condition 1 activates, even if condition 2 fails, then you would put 'back' as condition 1 and highest initiative as condition 2. Unfortunately I'm at work and can't pull up my current character builds. I have a couple setup utilizing dual conditions.
I have one of my witches setup to attack the highest HP enemy who doesn't have burn applied. Then at the end of the round, prioritize attacking the burning enemy with that passive magic skill, which causes all enemy units to take damage. If the burning enemy is dead, then the skill activates on whoever is left.
I have been watching Iced Coffee Gaming and he made some similar mistakes with tactics and also misunderstood a couple abilities. So you are not the only one. People make mistakes. A better way to do what you are trying to do is just specify a backline class that is fast and dangerous to your unit for your witch to target. Idk which class you care about to do that with but I am sure you have something in mind. I wanted a condition to use an ability if the enemy has higher defense or magic defense but that doesnt exist either just can check if they have the highest of one of those on the enemy squad. Also you could easily test your command by disabling everything except the first line then doing mock battle against only front row people and see if you witch attacks or not. Edit: just to be clear if she does not attack and sits there doing nothing it works and if she does attack it doesn't work.
I think if you want to use your Rolf to take out flying units than the top of the priority list should be single shot first. As that is what i assume you want him to do when a flying unit is in the enemy squad rather than flame strike. As it is more the generic of the two attacks. That is so due to the only targets are the highest hp unit and there will always be a high hp enemy along as there is an enemy in the battle. Think of it this ways the more precise the command the higher it should be compared to less precise commands. For example use the poison attack on a not poisoned enemy is less precise than poison a armor unit that is not poisoned. This is so as any unit that is not poisoned is a target in the former and only one type of enemy has to be present and not poisoned for the attack to go off for the later.
This reminds me of Dragon Age: Origins. I was constantly adjusting tactics due to mistakes I made on the tactics menu. Made Nightmare Mode a ... well Nightmare.
Are you going to do another live play through? Maybe you can explore the top part this time.
Why not put back row as condition 1 and then highest initiative as condition 2? It all really depends if it functions as an "and" statement or as an "or" statement. I think its an "and" statement just cause i had my archer/spell casters attack scout (condition 1) and flyer (condition 2)
I am so glad you brought this up so I can hopefully avoid this. 😅
Bit hard to explore tactics since we have limited time. You can actually try the tactics during mock battles. You can set up the 2nd team so if will fulfill what you want to test.
So help me out if y'all can: currently my setup for Clive is assault lance first so he can get any kills in (which I want him to do broadly indefinitely until the end of the battle), but I want him to avoid armored units if he can't kill them with it, and not target thieves with evade loaded up, but then pivot to his true strike attack if either 1. There are enemies with high avoidance on the board, and/or 2. He can do significant damage to a column or enemies.
How might I arrange that for him? Thanks for any guidance y'all can give me on this 🙏🏻
ngl I didn't really touch tactics in thr demo bc of the timer, but it's one of the things I'm most excited about
they're definitely complicated tho
I suspect the Category list may be following a hierarchal Top-Down order when setting conditions. Where the Category found higher above on the list would be recommended to place as the first condition, and an additional Category lower in the list would be recommended to place as the second condition. I haven't encountered many conflicting conditions when setting my tactics where Condition 1 has a Category found higher on the list than the Category in Condition 2. For example, in your tactic where you have Action: Icebolt, Condition 1: Highest initiative, Condition 2: Prioritize back row. Your Condition 1 uses a category lower on the Category list, "Stats". Whereas your Condition 2 uses a category at the top of the Category list, "Formation".
Your initial tactic setup would, logically, make sense and the "query" would be ok. However, because you've encountered an issue or conflicting arguments between the two conditions, it means that the problem may result from a number of reasons that is not passable within the set of rules coded in the game. You'll get results like actions not executing as you'd intend or actions producing limiting results. So, in your first condition you have "Highest initiative" which is at least true with one enemy unit and the action will execute. But (this is where I suspect a rule concerning hierarchy in the Category list) because you set Condition 2 as "Formation" type category, that Category is placed above the "Stats" type category, and if the second condition ask for a category that does not exist down in the list, it may explain the undesired result you've experienced from a possible invalid input.
I've only seen a similar-ish system used for two other games before. Armored Core Formula Front and Carnage Heart. More evidence that it's a strategic engineering puzzle 😀
From my experience(Please correct me if I am wrong) if you do not set a condition that says “only” then prioritized conditions are always technically met and they will never progress.
Example: If you prioritize armored units, it will always target the armored units it can feasibly target, but if there are none, it still uses the “Prioritize armor” tactic because there is no condition set that it should not occur. It will just continue with general, default targeting from then on.
Therefore, if you want the armor priority tactic to make way for tactic 3, you must set condition 2 to “enemies present: armored” where it will not occur if there are no armored targets and will move on to tactic 3.
By that logic, your first tactic: “highest physical attack” and “back row” will always occur, because the highest attack enemy is always at least one enemy and back row is a priority and not an exclusivity. It will use tactic 1 every time and never move to tactic 2.
To get what you want, you need to set more tactics with more conditions.
Oh God.
@@TitaniumLegman Luckily, we have the option to toggle tactics on and off before each battle, if not just entirely edit them to work for that specific battle.
Overall, I think it’s best to build around the entire unit before making general sets of tactics. Depending on how many armored targets are available, Yahna could just let a Warrior handle the fighters and hoplites. Physical attackers may not even have a way to reach Yahna for them to be a threat at all. Even most Archers will target the front row because they only prioritize flyers by default, and if there is no flyer in the back row, they default to the first enemy in front of them.
@Nethermoosen oh I agree, I just figured it's better to keep things simple and show an examples of a Tactic set for one character when explaining the mechanics of it all.
@@TitaniumLegman Definitely. I didn’t mean to imply that your video was done incorrectly. I am sharing what I know since you expressed you are in the process of learning more about it. I’m just as obsessed as you are and I enjoy the conversation, dudemanbro. lol.
@@Nethermoosen I hear ya for sure! I'm excited to get to the point where I can start sharing fully customized units with people.
I had accidentally messed up my Clive so he wrecked scouts,then fliers and then targeted units below 50% if not any of those two with his kill reset thing. But...I hadn't added another attack after so he just stood there...awkwardly...looking at full health armored dudes. I ended up fixing it(just putting it to lowest health instead) but I expect more silly moments like that with this game😂
Hey, as someone who is going through a huge phase of depression and paranoia right now, i also struggle both with memory and paying attention. I managed to completely overlook a woman with a bright pink umbrella during a gray, rainy day, while going on a walk with a friend. I partially feel ya, Titanium, it sucks.....
Good luck dealing with your struggles Aurelio, and thank you for the camaraderie. It's tough sometimes.
@@TitaniumLegmanIt is. Luckily i start my in-patient therapy next week. Just need a way to arrange the delivery of my Premium Edition of Unicorn Overlord, so even if the clinic doesn`t allow me to bring my Switch along, i can at least enjoy playing the card game with fellow patients.^^
@@aureliodeprimus8018 hey, now there's a good idea! Good way fo pass the tkme and make some friends. 😁
I don't know when I started it but I've personified my army as "extremely passive aggressive"
They'll do exactly what you tell them to do.... But only what you tell them.
Btw, I so love this game. I love this battle system.. you are like a lazy strategist. Have played Ogre Battle, FF12 and Dragon Age Origins who all have similar battle system. Oh I almost forgot Soul Nomad and the World Eaters, same system.
What is the difference between hp percent and hp
Honestly seems easy to me, actually reminds me a lot of Final Fantasy XII The International Version/The Zodiac Age (The Remaster/New One/JP One). And I loved setting up the system in that game for every scenario and the job combinations were so fun. But I think it was called a Gambit system? It was amazing and was so perfect in my opinion.
Ff12 gambit systems only downside was you had to unlock more of it through progression but man was it glorious
@@TheGameReaper948that worked first time through as to not overwhelm people playing the most popular JRPG franchise of all time.
Only issue is NG+/NG- didn't keep your unlocked gambit conditions.
If you get a chance, you should go look at the tactics system in dragon age origins and see if that makes any more sense. Very similar system.
Ah, yes, DA: O. I played the entire game including the DLC, and I did it giving manual commands to the entire party all the time because I didn't like the auto battle system there. 😅
like pre battle prediction says my team will lose, then i switch troops positions and tides have been reversed with just the positioning using the same said troops 😂
Wouldn't you want armor priority to be on top though? cause if there's an armor in the front, she'll do the back row first and ignore the armor.
I'd rather have her target the back row first, specifically to avoid the issue of archers and the like.
oh cool I didn't know you where a cyborg.
anyway easy mistake to make, your cool dude.
Did you try:
1. Back row. Highest Initiative.
2. Armored
3. Lowest HP.
Seems like in this case game scan if anyone in back row. If their is it hits fastest unit. If no one it goes after any armored unit, and if no armored it goes after any one with lowest HP.
It's sounding like that's gonna be the way to do it, yes.
Wahahaha! It's just like OgreBattle, people don't understand it! Prima tried really hard to get it right, too!
I'd understand Ogre Battle no problem.
Condition one should be back row. Condition 2 should be ap then if there is no back row you are clear and you can do >1ap instead
Other wise 0 is the most ap
I assume these are AND statements not IF.
WHEN you have 1 condition it’s the only rule and IF you have two they become an AND.
WHEN the rule(s) for row are not meet
THEN move to the next row and so on.
But they could be different, I don’t plan to mess with them that deep till release. I do get why content creators would want to rush it tho, you will just need to do trail and error a few to confirm the functions.
@@Trace153 yeah maybe I should have punctuated better was on a break at work as I am now but I have some time. The first condition should be back row. The second condition should be ap. (If you are using her like I assume instead of highest it should be >1ap because 0 is still the highest in the back row and bot requirements are technically met). The second version/gambit/tactic should be your priority if there are no back row units with greater than 1 ap and that seems to be armored gotta see your third so maybe a prioritize armor would be sufficient because if not armored you can hit anyone unless you want highest ap next or lowest health. Hopefully that's more comprehensive
Later on this tactic specifically will fall apart just because if yahna had 4 actions and freezes the one with the most she will target them with the remaining 3 attacks so long as they are alive, freezing an already frozen enemy.
Its a tricky system as when u introduce more actions u have to reevaluate old strategies
@@tomin83r2 for sure. Also we don't know hat she will have for those actions and if this attack will even be viable. But for what he has now what I said is how to achieve it properly.
I think your second example works as you're intending but I don't think it's too great of a setup. Basically means she won't ever switch to target armour until the entire backrow is cleared (at least itll happen this way like 90% of the time). This doesn't seem too good? The whole problem with armour is defending other units. So the armour unit will fulfill his role of defending the backline until there is no backline
3rd example has the same 'problem' as the first example. Every character has phy attack score so the witch will target the backrow until they are dead