Grilling JR #02 The Curtain Call
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- It's considered one of the most controversial moments in WWE history, still, to this very day! It's "The Curtain Call," when five of the biggest superstars of all time, embraced following the main event at a WWE house show at Madison Square Garden, and Jim Ross is here to discuss it at length! Razor Ramon (Scott Hall) and Diesel (Kevin Nash) were on their way out the door to WCW, and this was their send off from their buddies in The Kliq, Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Two were heels, two were babyfaces, yet here they were. breaking kayfabe, in the middle of Vince McMahon's WWE ring, on hallowed ground. What was the feeling of upper management and the other wrestlers before, during, and after this took place? What should the consequences have been, and more! Plus, discussion about stars like Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Sean Waltman, and The Ultimate Warrior at this time, as well as talk about the looming WCW threat! Rate/subscribe in Apple Podcasts! New episodes every Thursday at 6 AM Hit JR on Twitter: @JRsBBQ Find JR on Facebook/Instagram: @JimRossBBQ
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I was there and too young to be a smart-mark. I remember that many ppl in the audience who were smart-marks then knew it was Razor and Diesel’s last match. I was just happy to see the Ultimate Warrior and Owen Hart wrestle even though the match was mostly Warrior chasing Owen around the ring. Seeing heels and faces embrace at the time and at that age was shocking but everyone ate it up - legendary night.
I was pissed 6 year old to learn a few months later that the house show my dad was taking me to had no more Ultimate Warrior. No disrespect to SID lol
@@keithderosas542 Understandable. Still awesome though, never got to see Sid live.
The Garden always (NY/NJ in general) had a lot of smart fans and it’s hard for real younger (fans who started watching Attitude era and after) guys to realize that pre Internet and that late 90s Boom with more real gimmicks and characters it was unheard of for guys to truly shoot or go off script like the clique did w the curtain call. The 10% or less of smart fans who knew Nash & Hall were leaving for WCW had to be blown away they were aknowledging that they were leaving and 2 babyfaces and 2 Heels were coming together.
J.R. in the image looks like he did in No Mercy for the N64
Something no one seems to mention about Hall; the guy had such a great eye for taking movies into the WWE. Not only was he Scarface, but guess who watched The Crow and gave Sting an idea for an image change? Scott Hall. Without Razor, there is no Crow Sting
Crow Sting had nothing to do with WWE..
@@schizzo8959 okay
@schizzo8959 it's all hypothetical but if WWE keeps hall we don't get nwo and we cannot get crow sting
I believe if Vince and Razor could have got the deal done Razor would've had a better long term career. Razor was my favorite at the time (1st was The Warrior) Scott brought swagg to the WWE and could have been a Great WWF world Champ with great battles with HBK HHH Mankind Undertaker etc. I know Razor had self issues but i believe working for vince would've helped him more than running wild n free with the wcw and Eric.
Yeah adding more responsibilities would not have fixed him. This is well known when it comes to addictions. There is no"fix"
I remember watching him throw up on live television very shortly after all of this. He had a great peak but he was using drugs and alcohol to cope and he kinda cracked. He also was kinda lazy in WCW and that probably would not have changed.
Amen bro. He'd still be goin I'd bet
@@BeeBumper so there is no hope? That's not accurate, of course it can be fixed.
He did as good as he could he co founded the most popular faction in wrestling history and made millions
HHH after WM12 probably told Shawn to "Stay Away " from Warrior. Shawn probably dodged a bullet that Warrior didnt stick around in 96 and that he didn't have to work w him especially if he already thought Vader was too stiff
It's interesting to hear JR say that Hall and Nash were asking for things that didn't exist.
Hall and and Nash ALREADY had a guaranteed contract when they were in WCW in the early 90's and JR had a guaranteed contract too.
EVERYONE who worked at WCW had a guaranteed contract after the Turner takeover in 1988, so I don't know why it took the WWF so long to catch on?!
This is a fascinating episode and a perfect 'companion piece' to the 'Creating The nWo' 83 Weeks episode!
Because no one affiliated with the WWF was as filthy rich as Ted Turner
The reason Austin didn't want to work with Marc Mero is someone in creative, in their genius, had him (Mero) getting slammed by Sable in I think the previous week. Austin was correct in the wrestling psychology realm: Why have anything other than a ten second squash match (which is not what they'd scheduled) with a guy who just got slammed by a woman?
1:21:00 Jim Cornette Impression its GOLD
Jim Ross is the GOAT 🐐
I heard goat tastes great with JRs BBQ sauce.
No doubt jr is a national treasure but that idiot vince never realise that
Austin wasn't even on the card at SummerSlam that year. If anything it was Bret Hart that helped more in Austin getting a push by wanting to work with him.
He really did and that fued with Bret basically made Austin and even Austin says that himself
Austin did defeat Yokozuna in a 2-minute match on "Free for All" at Summerslam for what it's worth.
How you leave the King of the Ring off of the main card at Summerslam is beyond me.
The two previous King of the Ring winners (Owen Hart in 1994 and Mabel in 1995) both wrestled for the WWF Championship at Summerslam.
And yes, it was Bret who helped make Austin a star by choosing to work with him in his comeback match at Survivor Series.
@@TheSBleeder austin on the free for all said this would be the last time that hes not booked for the ppv he was obviously right
Just found this channel and I’m now blasting through the content 👍👍
In regards of what Conrad said about the debate of when the Attitude Era started, while all those instances do have legit claims, I would say the Curtain Call was the end of the New Generation Era. Bret had left for six months, Razor and Diesel were leaving. The next eighteen months or so felt like a flux period where the WWF were just building things up and were unsure of what would happen next. The only real top stars they had with any name recognition were HBK and Taker. While they had a deep talent roster, none of the names carried any real weight to casual fans until you got to the end of 97/early 98.
💯💯💯%%% FACTS couldn't say it any better than this brother
Bret started the attitude era
Wasn’t Mantaur still around at this time?
Hahaha JR doing Corny 😂😂😂😂
He’s fantastic
The thumbnail is genius 🤣🤣🤣🤣
JR I love ya, fantastic dodge on the ‘who did they bury’ question
They "exposed the business"!
They ruined everything for the 17 people in the world who still thought wrestling isn't scripted.
@Martin McKerry Shane Douglas for 2nd
@@Stevenirons to be fair, Shane was dead on arrival with that Dean gimmick.
@Marty McK bam bam was the man
The thumbnail is gonna give me nightmares for days to come.
I believe it was the montreal screw job started it all.
Vince turn heel and he even did the promo that good guy vs bad guy is the past. He changed from commentator to significant character on the show as well.
When JR said Warrior wasn't a good worker, it was absolutely correct and fit the 'story' of the podcast. But then he went on a tangent until he ended up talking about him using the f word in a totally different situation. It is clear that JR has an agenda against Warrior when he'll try and make bad language a crime, on a pod about Hall and Nash of all people lol
You guys got to fix the popping noise in the audio
No shit. I had to bail on this episode because of it. Seems to just be on the RUclips version though, so who knows what the deal is.
I love jim ross but im calling bullshit on him being okay with the curtain call i can't help but think if this was done to bill watts his opinion would be very ďiffrent
Oh man could you imagine Cowboy Watts reaction and insanity he would have brought down on Hunter & Shawn if he was running the show then and that happened with him as the Boss?!
Bret was right about the finish with Nash.. Having your champion constantly lose and get saved by random people is stupid.
It wasn't "constant". It helped would've helped build the story and it isn't like he couldn't regain momentum.
@@Y2JLionHeart two ppvs in a row is way too much to have your champion laid out having effectively lost(by two different characters no less). It would only be reasonable if you were trying for your champion to be the weak underdog that somehow keeps winning... Possibly for the heel champion that everyone hates but somehow always walks away champion (the Ric Flair type)
The thumbnail always awesome
They look like fake Razor and Diesel.
McMahon should have never kept HHH on the roster after that curtain call.
Then HHH spends all his time breaking kayfabe and reminding people who aren't asking that it's it's "choreographed sports entertainment"
Came here for wrestling and there's a dude just talking about being in debt.
Now he's talking about flies. What is this
Ya this guy is a joke scam artist.
He looks like a fucking muppet too
jr doesn't do things for free his time is expensive they have to generate revenue
Lmao
I think the Montreal Screwjob was a happy accident. The Mr McMahon character was a success. He was that evil boss that you loved to hate. I dont think Steve Austins popularity would have started this quickly if not for the screwjob. They should have been happy that this was a house show. Imagine if this was a Raw or a pay per view, Hunter would have been so screwed that its not even funny.
an accident? lol if you think it was an accident. It's wrestling, it's a work. You know that right? the cameramen were ordered to film Bret after that happened, and he waved WCW at the camera. Yea, they'd have cut away if it were legit, kind of like when Bret beat Diesel for the belt and the cameramen were ordered to keep filming Nash saying the ''F'' word right at the camera. Oh but it's a shoot right?? give me a break lol.
@@rowds stupid
This is the perfect example of a lot of shoot stories going around today that people argue about now. Vince McMahon is behind all of it but no one knows because everyone is afraid to ask him. 😂
Seeing as how sable power bombed Marc Mero a few weeks prior to that Austin match I think steve was justified in his decision.
The attitude era started the night after Bad Blood October 97. Brian Pillman had died that weekend and Vince held a meeting with the talent. He admitted that he wasn't always right and that most of the old formulas and idea's were simply outdated.
Who else they basically replaced Diesel with SID ? By summer 96’ SID started getting a huge push
Sid was always pushed due to his size
But his title run was meant to be Vader but micheals didnt want to work with him
Note to self: Please request more adds that nobody watches for more than 5 seconds
When I think of The Kliq, I think of 4 words from Cornette lol: "Exposin' the f-kin' business!"
I have seen interviews with various people where they talked about trying to give 90-day notice to the WWE or TNA for that matter in person and being told that it wasn't being accepted even though the company has no legal right to do that so I can understand why you'd want to send it via telegram so there was a very good record with both parties having a copy that notice has been given
Plus it ain't like Vince McMahon fires is Talent personally, he has a guy to do that for him
“A Pat Patterson quick one”? 😏
Kevin Spacey learned from the best, I guess.
Before Wrestlemania that year Vince McMahon was interviewed on the Msg network and said Scott Hall & Kevin Nash were leaving. That's how it was out there. McMahon in the sane interview said Hulk Hogan wasn't marketable as a entertainer anymore.
Is that mero story same one where corny said Austin didn’t wanna wrestling and sell for a dude who just got sablebombed lol
Warrior vs Diesel an interesting attraction but that would have sucked as a match
Konrads promotions are the only promotions I watch lol. I could skipped but I always watch
Bret Hart is the GOAT.
Lol ... hbk better
@@boxinglegend2011 👎
Jr in the stripclub making it rain
Bah Gawd, look at the rack on that Jezebel!!!
ATL clubs rpetty notorious a lit goes ok b in the champagne room. More than just looking
looking at thr thumbnail, Conrad whould have made a good "Fake Razor"..
Did Jim have a cold or something? (Don’t tell Vince)
It was may 19th I was there
It doesn't and not has it ever taken 6 mf weeks to analyze a urine sample not even in the 90s
Oh yeah, JR, they didn't bury anyone, unless you mean literally. Candido anyone?
Didn’t know the curtain call was on May 19th. Don’t tell Kane!
I still fail to see how the Curtain Call served any purpose other than letting the clique stroke their ego
They shat in the palm of the hand that fed them. It wasn't 'cutting-edge', just ego gratification.
If they truly believed it was 'show BUSINESS', they could've said their fucking good-byes in the back.
Let's not forget that on the same night WWF felt they had to cut Ramon/Hall's mic off, as he was 'going into business for himself'.
But oh boy, did Triple H milk this for all it was worth. Did you know he was 'buried'?
@thievesarmy And Triple H still gets booboo-faced when reflecting on how he was 'buried'.
My recollection is that he took a few losses for a month or two and was then made Intercontinental champion.
@@henrikschmidt3964 they had him lose most of the time for a year and they took away the king of the ring and gave it to austin. They punished him because they couldnt punish shawn. But they didnt kill him because unlike kid he resigned w the company.
Henrik Schmidt Same with the DX Invasion.
@@senshix Probably worked out for the best that he didn't win king of the ring. Austin would have gotten over anyway, the kotr didn't really do that much for him as wwf had no plans for him and took them months to catch on. Triple H would have been killed by a cheesy king gimmick and may have ended up back in WCW a few years later.
@@grahamstavers5130 oh absolutely. Austin winning the kor and the Montreal screwjob changed the business to a better way. Bret is the only person hurt by the screwjob and eventhough punished hunter and the business was helped by Austin winning the kor.
The attitude era started when….”Talk about your Psalms talk about your John 3:16…Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!”
To this day, whenever I see Connection or if it is mentioned, I think back to J.R.'s "that overpriced hellhole Connecticut" comment.
The knowledge of these guys leaving was all over old school bulletin boards online.
Well yeah, that's what they said lol
JR lying his ass off ...
How is he lying?? Genuinely curious because I’m not completely hip on all the behind the scenes shit
Very interesting discussion between JR & Conrad.
Jim Ross looks like Samuel Jackson in the pic
56:28 A bigger dollar “figue?”
I understand that everyone has a different point of view on this curtain call deal. Tbh I always felt like they did it more for the fans in the area. With the biggest market in america for the wwf, most people there that night had prob been to alot of wwf events at the garden. I think that they all felt like they owed it to the Fan's who had gone to a number of events there and it was there way of saying goodbye. Yes it could of been done backstage and in other ways no doubt, but TBH I think it was more about the fans and not themselves.
Bolony they did for themselves. If for fans all wrestlers should of come out. Plus why for fans 2 friends were leaving they were saying goodbye. Not for a sec did I think this was for anyone but themselves.
Stanislaw zabisco would have never done this! 😅🤣🤣
The snowball began here.
Without the Hiatch punishment we wouldn't have gotten Austin 3:16 he only said that because of Jake's promo and Conrad always forgets or just doesn't say we also wouldn't have had "and that's the bottom line because Stone Cold said so" . 2 home runs in 1 promo.
Austin may have risen later probably not much later he had a damn good look etc
Attitude era aka ecw copy
Finally someone else who remembers. I also took some time to watch Nitro from 96/97, and you've got a heel boss, crotch chopping, 'shoot promos' and more that the WWE network tells us Vince came up with
Kevin Nash HBK HHH Undertaker Kane Madison Square Garden wwe 2023 royal rumble match
“The definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result” is a false statement. No dictionary defines insanity that way.
It’s a turn of phrase obviously
@@jillianwildman3511 then he should have said that. Because he obviously meant it as a literal dictionary quote.
Jim Ross like video Atlanta
its refreshing hearing JRs views on the kliq i think they get vilified far too much i don't doubt some of the accusations on them or the opinions of say corny but they aren't this evil mafia of wrestlers people make out. love these shows am working my way through as many s possible i have huge respect for JR as much as a figure backstage as i do as a commentator actually.
Actually they were 😂
What does that mean 150 a night for 10 nights after 10 matches there not guarantee to work?
23:46 in and 5 ads. Awesome content, love where the story is heading but I can’t listen to it anymore. Frikkin joke
The curtain call could have just as easily been done backstage. The attitude era was the beginning of where WWE rolls on its back as a give up move realizing they couldnt book wrestling matches and draw viewers. Once the territories were squashed the WWE was no longer able to rob already developed talent. That said, enter the "attitude era" (piss poor acting, hitting mcmahon with a bed pan, spraying beer from a beer truck etc) It was the next step toward turning a wrestling show into a comedy act because a so called "genious" found out he wasnt really a genious. Look how things turned out. Wrestling has been guided by a moron (vince) and its now circling the drain with the lowest ebb of popularity ever. Geniouses dont do that.
How ignorant can you be? Statements like yours are why advertisers think wrestling is low brow. WWE is raking in never before seen record profits, the man is a genius plain and simple. You don't turn a regional promotion into a global brand by luck.
@@deepblue8143 vince killed wrestling. People that buy into his shite are sloped headed mouth breathers.
@@deepblue8143 never
before seen? 😂😂😂😂 you are young. You haven’t been here long. But wrestling is finished
@@arthurmorgan7086 Record profits but wrestling is finished lol. Go to bed.
@@deepblue8143 show me
I'm glad I didn't see the curtain call
Bret not wanting to take the Jackknife was very warranted. That whole championship run for Bret that year saw him having to be "saved" for what seemed like every PPV. It felt like Taker and Diesel were just manhandling Bret back and forth like some kind of accessory attached to the belt instead of the WWF CHAMPION.
Give me a break
I agree. Everything about the reign was transitional to Shawn and because they knew about his time off (before Nash gave his notice) so they decided to use those finishes to make Taker look strong and make Diesel look strong. Kind of short-sighted because it meant Shawn didnt beat a strong champion but a guy that needed saving twice in a row and looked like he couldnt keep up with the others at the top.
I really like JR but it’s kind of stealing when Conrad uses direct quotes from other people’s interviews . Would be nice if he said as quoted in an interview with... I guess someone should just create a grilling grilling jr and just use all their content.
Hannibal has since blasted him about this
Check this out tho…Vince vs 3:16 in a inferno match 😌
How many times will we hear about AEW in this one?
6 or 7 times just finished it
CONRAD, FIX THE CLICKING IN THE AUDIO
The show was on May 19th, not May 16th. The only reason I remember is because the 19th is my birthday. lol
That's also the day that Kane lost his parents to a fire
@@jameyanderson3839 and set by the undertaker
Fake razor and diesel was weird. They torpedoed if themselves. The moment they came out the announcers buried it. They obviously knew it would fail but did it anyway.
I dont think they knew it was going to fail. I believe they wanted it to fail because it was a blananant FU to Scott and Kevin for jumping to WCW. I kinda dont blame Scott for leaving. He was only making 150 a match. No way a wrestler could live on 150 per match. They are probably in the red before they wrestle.
@@josephboza7448 have you watched the debut of fake razor and Diesel with original commentary?
@@dessertstorm7476 Yeah
They also had circuses in MSG but yes they usually was the better ones Rigling brothers stuff like that!! But I see wrestling a lot like the circuses! They both usually have giants, freaks, their words not mine, fat men, fat women, little something for everyone!
Is Jr on that soft gimmick? That girl? Where you at JR?
I don't blame triple H for not apologizing to Jim cornette or anyone else. I wouldn't have either. Especially if Vince approved the curtain call. It's not jim,s company or place to tell anyone they need to apologise. Yes I understand that corner loves the business and thats fine, but it's not like the wwf went out of business or anything like that.
The ad for his Bussiness so annoying
The attitude the Era started right after Stone Cold cut the promo on Jake the snake after the King of the ring in my opinion
Eh, it was still really hokey after. I'd say right before WM 13. Particularly where Bret pushed Vince.
I don't like that batista part of the intro
Ve-yance
Shawn is the goat!
Pfft. He hardly drew. WWF was in the shits when he was champ. I can think of more than five names who are bigger stars and more entertaining wrestlers and would be more worthy of that title. Austin, Hogan, Savage, Flair, Sammartino, Funk... I could go on. But fuck Shawn Michaels.
The Treklosopher yeah because Bret put the company in the toilet by 96,
No no no.....
Yeah Shawn Michaels was definitely the best all-around of all time. His charisma and his selling were absolutely amazing. he may not been as good technically as guys like Benoit or Guerrero and he may not have been as good on the microphone as guys like flair and he may not have drawn money like Austin but all around he's the best of all time by far.
@@Treklosopher Austin Drew more money for sure and Hogan was a Megastar but Hogan was dogshit in the ring and Shawn Michaels is hands-down the best all-around wrestler of all time. You may not have drawn as much but in ring work was better than all of them.
I'm gonna correct JR on something. You can be a Sr. or Jr. and have two different names. I only know that because a buddy of mine and his dad have the same first and last name, similar to vince and his dad, but because he doesn't go by his middle name (which is usually what happens when you have the same name, but different middle names) we call them *insert name here* Jr. and *nsert name here* Sr. or we call them big *insert name here* and little *insert name here*.
Enough will all the dam ads
Can't deal with with the sniffling in these shows. Please utilize the mute button if you aren't talking. Only the Arn and Tony shows are void of this.
Don't like it don't listen. Maybe start your own show with JR
@@thickerconstrictor9037 This is such an obnoxious response bro. Don't be that guy.
Why is Lawler dressed up like the Bad Guy?
I think the upper half of the face is actually a young Jim Ross lol
Lol it is
The Kliq was a cancer
L
Gobba Globba Glob!!?
Gobba Glob!?