I had this idea in 2011 while on deployment in the Pacific ocean. I had plans for a flat plane 440, timing order, just needed cash to build it. It would have easily been a 650hp motor that might normally be a 500 cross plane design
Nathan, thank you for your service. Cash is a problem for us all. I started this investigation back in 2009, long before the Ford Voodoo became public knowledge. Check out the prototype that we are working with now. ruclips.net/video/_dYSibqJxdg/видео.html This engine is headed for a 1970 Mustang tryout early summer 2018. Myth vs fact come early summer.
If you're talking mopar 440, you could build a 500" low deck stroker based on a 400. It turns out the 400 low deck is tougher than a pre smog 440. As well the 400 bores are thicker than any mopar B/RB engine and all the smog mopar B & RBs have many mods cast in to make them more durable. The low[er] deck B enables the strokers to half (almost) the reciprocating mass over stock 400 even though the stroke takes them out to 500 cu". This weight reduction helps by offsetting the rod angle to bore centerline at 90deg ATDC angle change from the increased stroke. Add stage VI heads which have a raised port and get this, RB intakes are designed to bolt on the low deck B with no mod! With the RB block spacer plates have to be added. They flow 350cfm unported at ~.600" lift or if you want Max Wedge ports (necessitating offset rockers), then 380cfm at 3/4 " lift. Exhaust port location is raised but the bolt pattern remains standard. With an old school solid lifter flat tappet camshaft if you couldn't get 650+hp at 65-6700rpm with the 'small' Stage VI from a 500" stroker something would have be wrong. By way of comparison, Nicks Garage had a Gen II 505 Hemi that has stock Hemi heads (so similar airflow to the Stage VI wedge) but obviously with heavier pistons pumped out 635hp on a single 4bbl dual plane intake. Aluminum blocks for these engines are getting cheap and they're cross bolted on all 5 mains too. There's even an iron block that can be either a Hemi or a Wedge (no option of one or the other - each block can be built either way) and can be optioned low deck or RB height.
@@fee9687 Depends. 400 stroker to 500 cu in. Stroker kit $2250 (pistons, crank, rods) Stage VI heads US made about $3000 assembled. They are $900ea bare but they flow nearly the same air as a Hemi head. This is where the power is coming from. I like the old school ductile iron rockers $900 and they are still available new. I'd not use a hydraulic cam with this combo. I'd use an old school solid lifter camshaft. It will turn 6700rpm that way. 440 Source have cross bolt main cap kits for the Wedge block as well as a girdle. If going the stock block route then I'd recommend buying both as well as a windage tray and drilling the block for a half inch oil pickup tube. New blocks are available for $3800 for a cross bolted iron block (4 mains) or about $5500 for aluminum (all 5 mains are cross bolted) and have revised oil passage routing. Remember the Stage VI heads on the low deck use any RB intake (because of the raised port location) except Max Wedge intake - however Max Wedge Stage VI are available also but then require offset rocker arms which cost about the same as normal high quality rockers. I hardly think the extra area of the Max Wedge Stage VI heads are worthwile on the street because they only pickup the extra +30cfm airflow at the expense of much greater lift unported - ported is a completely different story. The stock unported Stage VI flows 350cfm. An Edelbrock Hemi Victor flows 400cfm. I would expect 650hp from this 500 inch low deck stroker with Stage VI heads and a solid lifter flat tappet camshaft of .570-.625' lift and 10.5:1 comp.
Just a note, but the early flat heads and v8's where also flat plane. But it was due to them not knowing how to make the twist needed in the forging for the cross plane cranks.
The LS version of the FlatFast Crate Engines are 352 CID currantly. You can select any flywheel that you want as long as it is neutral balanced. See www.steviescrazygarage.com
Steve have you've ever seen a gas engine with no valve springs along with being a naturally aspirated with reverse turbo technology with no turbo? Sounds impossible right, well it exist. Here's another one, how about a naturally aspirated gas engine with no cam/cams? Ever heard or seen of these 2 different engines?
F1 cars and a few super cars don't use valve springs. Pneumatic valves The reason they can turn 20k+RPMs Koensigsegg has a car with what they call free valve. They also have a car that has a 700HP electric motor combined with 1,000HP turbo gas engine. It has no gears and takes off in final drive start to finish
Disappointed that these kits were so expensive. I can easily imagine building a 302 pushrod Ford with the lightest possible rod/piston assembly. Not concerned with boost, just rpm.
flat plane crank is far less tractable, so if you already have a tire eater, this makes that problem worse. These are perfect for heavy cars, or street legal cars
Horsepower becomes more a function of RPM then displacement? It's lighter and it revs faster and higher Would be fun to see a graphical interpretation of horsepower verse torque. What happens to the torque curve?
Horsepower is a function of, air flow through an engine. Using air flow, you can predict horsepower. It's just a black box. You do not care if the engine inside the box is Ford or Ferrari. All engines are just AIR PUMPS. The greater the air flow, the greater the horsepower. You can have the same air flow in a V-10 Viper engine as a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder with 45 psi of boost. Making the same horsepower. Engines are just air PUMPS.
@@nellyfarnsworth7381 Torque is corresponding to airflow but then comes fuel, ignition, shape of channels and cylinders. HP = Torque*rpm. A truck engine has more than 3000Nm but just around 700 hp because it revs low. You can have a car engine making 700 hp but just maybe 800 Nm. That engiine can not pull 100 tons.
Q: why doesn't the Mustang Coyote motor sound more like a Ferrari? A: a Coyote is the classic American crossplane (also cousin to dogs and wolves but that's another thread).
Too Bad these cranks don't have the torque numbers as a cross plane crank or I would go that way for drag racing but road racing I can see the advantage with a flat plane in that type of racing.
So you want money for an idea that no one wants? Cross plane V8's have exceeded 11,000rpm and can be fully counterweighted. Plus the flat plane needs full counterweights any weighs.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
GREAT video!! Nice animations!!
Thanks my friend...
I had this idea in 2011 while on deployment in the Pacific ocean. I had plans for a flat plane 440, timing order, just needed cash to build it. It would have easily been a 650hp motor that might normally be a 500 cross plane design
Nathan, thank you for your service. Cash is a problem for us all. I started this investigation back in 2009, long before the Ford Voodoo became public knowledge. Check out the prototype that we are working with now. ruclips.net/video/_dYSibqJxdg/видео.html This engine is headed for a 1970 Mustang tryout early summer 2018. Myth vs fact come early summer.
If you're talking mopar 440, you could build a 500" low deck stroker based on a 400. It turns out the 400 low deck is tougher than a pre smog 440. As well the 400 bores are thicker than any mopar B/RB engine and all the smog mopar B & RBs have many mods cast in to make them more durable. The low[er] deck B enables the strokers to half (almost) the reciprocating mass over stock 400 even though the stroke takes them out to 500 cu". This weight reduction helps by offsetting the rod angle to bore centerline at 90deg ATDC angle change from the increased stroke.
Add stage VI heads which have a raised port and get this, RB intakes are designed to bolt on the low deck B with no mod! With the RB block spacer plates have to be added. They flow 350cfm unported at ~.600" lift or if you want Max Wedge ports (necessitating offset rockers), then 380cfm at 3/4 " lift. Exhaust port location is raised but the bolt pattern remains standard.
With an old school solid lifter flat tappet camshaft if you couldn't get 650+hp at 65-6700rpm with the 'small' Stage VI from a 500" stroker something would have be wrong.
By way of comparison, Nicks Garage had a Gen II 505 Hemi that has stock Hemi heads (so similar airflow to the Stage VI wedge) but obviously with heavier pistons pumped out 635hp on a single 4bbl dual plane intake.
Aluminum blocks for these engines are getting cheap and they're cross bolted on all 5 mains too. There's even an iron block that can be either a Hemi or a Wedge (no option of one or the other - each block can be built either way) and can be optioned low deck or RB height.
ThePaulv12 how much money
Nathan Stephenson how much did you need
@@fee9687 Depends.
400 stroker to 500 cu in.
Stroker kit $2250 (pistons, crank, rods)
Stage VI heads US made about $3000 assembled. They are $900ea bare but they flow nearly the same air as a Hemi head.
This is where the power is coming from.
I like the old school ductile iron rockers $900 and they are still available new.
I'd not use a hydraulic cam with this combo. I'd use an old school solid lifter camshaft. It will turn 6700rpm that way.
440 Source have cross bolt main cap kits for the Wedge block as well as a girdle. If going the stock block route then I'd recommend buying both as well as a windage tray and drilling the block for a half inch oil pickup tube.
New blocks are available for $3800 for a cross bolted iron block (4 mains) or about $5500 for aluminum (all 5 mains are cross bolted) and have revised oil passage routing.
Remember the Stage VI heads on the low deck use any RB intake (because of the raised port location) except Max Wedge intake - however Max Wedge Stage VI are available also but then require offset rocker arms which cost about the same as normal high quality rockers. I hardly think the extra area of the Max Wedge Stage VI heads are worthwile on the street because they only pickup the extra +30cfm airflow at the expense of much greater lift unported - ported is a completely different story.
The stock unported Stage VI flows 350cfm. An Edelbrock Hemi Victor flows 400cfm.
I would expect 650hp from this 500 inch low deck stroker with Stage VI heads and a solid lifter flat tappet camshaft of .570-.625' lift and 10.5:1 comp.
Very good video.Thank you.
Just a note, but the early flat heads and v8's where also flat plane. But it was due to them not knowing how to make the twist needed in the forging for the cross plane cranks.
Thank you .now i know why the fox body mustang i saw sounds way it does while on back tires for half the eighth mile. Wow.
So good 👍👍
Can you flat plain a
1990 mustang 5.0?
Thank you 🙏🏽
Always wondered about kit for SBC... currently drive Maserati with Ferrari engine. Power and sound insane.
Flat plane crank in a 4.8l LS with a light flywheel should make one crazy quick revving v8.... is that something you could do?
The LS version of the FlatFast Crate Engines are 352 CID currantly. You can select any flywheel that you want as long as it is neutral balanced. See www.steviescrazygarage.com
Hey Steve,
You making those kits yet?
If so, I am looking for a kit for 5.3 L83
Yes exatly right ,I think the first Flat plane cranks V8 was build and raced by Daraque in 1908 There is one raced at Goodwood ,several times
How about a SBC Flat plane crank kit for a 383 Stroker application......That would be incredible.....
Is it displacement specifically or stroke mainly? Like a destroked 454 or 460. 350ish cubes due to the large bore.
Good lecture but what is a dampner
It's the balancer or vibration dampener which keeps the forces under control, some of the flat plane racing V8's run balance shafts.
Are it Will fit in all V8 such like s62 because i wan't to make replica of p60b40
hmm why is a 308 ferrari crank 20 lbs heavier then a stock 350 chevy crank?
Easy its twice as long
Steve have you've ever seen a gas engine with no valve springs along with being a naturally aspirated with reverse turbo technology with no turbo? Sounds impossible right, well it exist.
Here's another one, how about a naturally aspirated gas engine with no cam/cams?
Ever heard or seen of these 2 different engines?
F1 cars and a few super cars don't use valve springs. Pneumatic valves The reason they can turn 20k+RPMs Koensigsegg has a car with what they call free valve. They also have a car that has a 700HP electric motor combined with 1,000HP turbo gas engine. It has no gears and takes off in final drive start to finish
Disappointed that these kits were so expensive. I can easily imagine building a 302 pushrod Ford with the lightest possible rod/piston assembly. Not concerned with boost, just rpm.
Does anyone make a flat plane crank kit for a Chevy LS engine?
flat plane crank is far less tractable, so if you already have a tire eater, this makes that problem worse. These are perfect for heavy cars, or street legal cars
Horsepower becomes more a function of RPM then displacement? It's lighter and it revs faster and higher
Would be fun to see a graphical interpretation of horsepower verse torque. What happens to the torque curve?
Horsepower is a function of, air flow through an engine. Using air flow, you can predict horsepower. It's just a black box. You do not care if the engine inside the box is Ford or Ferrari. All engines are just AIR PUMPS. The greater the air flow, the greater the horsepower. You can have the same air flow in a V-10 Viper engine as a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder with 45 psi of boost. Making the same horsepower. Engines are just air PUMPS.
@@nellyfarnsworth7381 Torque is corresponding to airflow but then comes fuel, ignition, shape of channels and cylinders. HP = Torque*rpm. A truck engine has more than 3000Nm but just around 700 hp because it revs low. You can have a car engine making 700 hp but just maybe 800 Nm. That engiine can not pull 100 tons.
Fun Stuff!
What type of valvetrain are you using
The race engines are pretty tough since they have such a high rpm number to hit. The street engines a little less robust at 8200 RPM.
Where can I get a set up for bbc
But why doesn't the Mustang Coyote motor sound more like a Ferrari? O.o
The 5.2 GT350 uses alternating crank journals, vs down, up, up, down. It also uses an intake plenum vs individual runner.
Q: why doesn't the Mustang Coyote motor sound more like a Ferrari? A: a Coyote is the classic American crossplane (also cousin to dogs and wolves but that's another thread).
Too Bad these cranks don't have the torque numbers as a cross plane crank or I would go that way for drag racing but road racing I can see the advantage with a flat plane in that type of racing.
that's good so 4cyl is flat to
Sponsor me for a super late model engine build. That will get their attention in this region. I'll build it. You send the parts
Brokedick racer looking for s handout
@@johncholmes643 yes I built everything I have. I financed it all
Its not a handout it's a sponsorship. All the big teams have them if you know anything about racing.
12K for a fully built LS short block. He is unwilling to sell a crank and rotating assembly.
So you want money for an idea that no one wants?
Cross plane V8's have exceeded 11,000rpm and can be fully counterweighted. Plus the flat plane needs full counterweights any weighs.
I wish my engine would shake and sound like a fart.
9000rpm pushrod engine! Hang on vavletrain there gonna be some piston slap!
LMAO...
Does anyone make this kit for a Ford 351 Cleveland, or the 400