I agree so strongly! There are so many book-tubers that seem to desire only likable and relatable protagonists, and I hate that. Some will even review a book negatively because the main character(s) are not likable. That’s nonsense, in my opinion.
I agree with you. There's an element of narcissism in the perspective that protagonists always need to be relatable. I would also add that villains don't have to be sympathetic. I miss villains who are just straight up evil and know that they are
Honestly, I write my protagonists as similar to me, but not quite like me. They all have different life experiences that define who they are, and that’s what makes them special.
Thank you for the videos. Much appreciated. I think another problem with their being too much of a focus on relatable characters rather than characters we need to work to understand comes from the publishing establishments themselves. An ex partner of mine was a junior editor at one of the big five, and they would rarely look at a book if the main protagonist was unrelatable. Another area this ideal is instilled is in the western universities and creative writing courses. There will always be a huge focus on making your characters relatable and likeable, which is the same in screenwriting as well - students are even given a list of likeable qualities that you 'must include'.
That disheartens me because likely I'll find myself in conflict with this. Also, honestly didn't look at it as a publishing thing. Dang, tough gig. Makes me appreciate Mark on a whole new level ☺️
@@AGWrites Yeah, I know you are getting book recommendations thrown at you every day, but one book that makes you work hard to understand the character and even society as a whole is 'A Clockwork Orange' by Anthony Burgess - you will also have to work for a few chapters to even understand the made up slang. I say this because Mark Lawrence has stated a few times that the protagonist from Clockwork Orange, Alex, was his inspiration for Jorg.
That sounds super up my alley. I'll check it out, perhaps read it alongside good omens sometime early April Now I am re-reading the blade itself to see if it holds up 👍👍
To be fair, I think with Prince of Thorns specifically, a lot of people took offense to the idea that they had to understand/connect with/empathize with a rapist-which is fair imo, though the way people express themselves is "I don't want to relate to a rapist" or "I can't relate to a rapist" etc. That being said, other than this, I do agree with you, and it's one of the reasons why I really enjoyed Jade City, because especially with a character like Hilo, I found myself not relating to him at all and actually disliking him at times because I generally dislike people like that, but also really deeply understanding him because he has had such a troubled past and has several characteristics that make him very redeemable. It's that kind of understanding of a character that creates some of the best characters because you are so conflicted over them. I wouldn't call this grimdark fantasy, but yeah, it was great.
I love this video, unrelatable protagonists are in short supply and you're right that this is also due to the reader side of things. Most people seem to be more character driven than world or plot driven in tastes and I've seen/read so many reviews of books with comments like "such a good story but I just hated this character so much," so I don't blame authors at all when they try to make their protagonists relatable, but someone I can't relate to is a breath of fresh air.
Oh boy, I've tried to get trough "The kindly ones" you can't get more unrelitable than that. I got blocked at the beginning. I'm not sure if I'll try again.
Love the videos man keep it up! I agree, more authors should be willing to make a main character that are very "unrelatable" even if some people may not like it. Makes for a much mor interesting character arc
Couldn't agree more! Especially given it makes the book stand out if the protagonist has to be understood. I mean, we're definitely talking about Jorg :D
“I don’t want to relate to your protagonist. I want to understand your protagonist” YESSSS....this can be applied to everyday encounters.
I agree so strongly! There are so many book-tubers that seem to desire only likable and relatable protagonists, and I hate that. Some will even review a book negatively because the main character(s) are not likable. That’s nonsense, in my opinion.
To add, I am only against too many characters being relatable. Not relatability as a concept.
Pin this to the top, man
I agree with you. There's an element of narcissism in the perspective that protagonists always need to be relatable. I would also add that villains don't have to be sympathetic. I miss villains who are just straight up evil and know that they are
@Doofus Glad to know I'm not alone :-)
Honestly, I write my protagonists as similar to me, but not quite like me. They all have different life experiences that define who they are, and that’s what makes them special.
That sounds amazing; there's always a bit of the writer in their characters even if they're not willing to admit it 😅
Thank you for the videos. Much appreciated. I think another problem with their being too much of a focus on relatable characters rather than characters we need to work to understand comes from the publishing establishments themselves. An ex partner of mine was a junior editor at one of the big five, and they would rarely look at a book if the main protagonist was unrelatable. Another area this ideal is instilled is in the western universities and creative writing courses. There will always be a huge focus on making your characters relatable and likeable, which is the same in screenwriting as well - students are even given a list of likeable qualities that you 'must include'.
That disheartens me because likely I'll find myself in conflict with this. Also, honestly didn't look at it as a publishing thing. Dang, tough gig. Makes me appreciate Mark on a whole new level ☺️
@@AGWrites Yeah, I know you are getting book recommendations thrown at you every day, but one book that makes you work hard to understand the character and even society as a whole is 'A Clockwork Orange' by Anthony Burgess - you will also have to work for a few chapters to even understand the made up slang. I say this because Mark Lawrence has stated a few times that the protagonist from Clockwork Orange, Alex, was his inspiration for Jorg.
That sounds super up my alley. I'll check it out, perhaps read it alongside good omens sometime early April
Now I am re-reading the blade itself to see if it holds up 👍👍
To be fair, I think with Prince of Thorns specifically, a lot of people took offense to the idea that they had to understand/connect with/empathize with a rapist-which is fair imo, though the way people express themselves is "I don't want to relate to a rapist" or "I can't relate to a rapist" etc. That being said, other than this, I do agree with you, and it's one of the reasons why I really enjoyed Jade City, because especially with a character like Hilo, I found myself not relating to him at all and actually disliking him at times because I generally dislike people like that, but also really deeply understanding him because he has had such a troubled past and has several characteristics that make him very redeemable. It's that kind of understanding of a character that creates some of the best characters because you are so conflicted over them. I wouldn't call this grimdark fantasy, but yeah, it was great.
I love this video, unrelatable protagonists are in short supply and you're right that this is also due to the reader side of things. Most people seem to be more character driven than world or plot driven in tastes and I've seen/read so many reviews of books with comments like "such a good story but I just hated this character so much," so I don't blame authors at all when they try to make their protagonists relatable, but someone I can't relate to is a breath of fresh air.
Thanks for the review, nuban! 😂😉
Oh boy, I've tried to get trough "The kindly ones" you can't get more unrelitable than that. I got blocked at the beginning. I'm not sure if I'll try again.
Love the videos man keep it up! I agree, more authors should be willing to make a main character that are very "unrelatable" even if some people may not like it. Makes for a much mor interesting character arc
Couldn't agree more! Especially given it makes the book stand out if the protagonist has to be understood. I mean, we're definitely talking about Jorg :D
I liked this book it scared me though hahaha
Well said!!