Prusa MMU3 vs Bambu AMS
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
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This one goes the Prusa, with the better result.
Also, on average the MMUs waste is 1/3 of the AMS, while being a little faster.
Its nice to see that Prusa really managed to get the waste quite low, I just hope the mmu also turns out to be reliable
Been solid for me so far with multiple prints... MK4 w/ MMU3
The Prusa Mk4 with MMU3 works perfectly for me.
Faster and with less waste. What more could you want?
So far, reports on MMU3 reliability are promising - everybody's been saying it's so much more reliable than the MMU2. My own MMU3 has been pretty reliable so far.
I had nothing but issues with the MMU2 to the point I gave up and sold it to someone else. I hope they are still sane. My MMU3 has been reliable so far, it just works.
@@vhoward1122 same for me. Just a huge loss of time and money. Prusa has really ruined their reputation for MMU. And I’m just really hesitant to get another one. But all the good experiences from you do give me hope.
Hey thanks for the quick Prusa slicer multi-color tutorial, I followed all of it. About to try my first MMU3 print, just the two color sheep. I'll post back how it goes. Yea my six hours build was before the buffer and reel holders add another few hours for that 🙂
Well the first MMU print went really well 🙂 I really need to make a quick video of my first setup of the little tweaks and additions I made and post to my meager RUclips channel, will try to do that within a few days. Am about to check your Prusa vs Bambu video 🙂
Great to hear! Thanks for watching!
Those both look good. I have also found that the Bambu tends to have more of an elephant foot than the Prusa does. I have found that if you don't adjust the purge settings on the Bambu you can spend a lot of time waiting for filament changes. I recently did one print with the default Bambu Studio settings and a 0.2 nozzle. When changing from black to white filament the white was clean after three purges. The printer continued to purge more than 10 more times. The second time I printed the part I adjusted the flushing volumes and I was able to cut the print time in half. It takes some tuning.
The MMU3 looks like it did a great job. I look forward to seeing some more prints of your designs from it.
I don't get any elephant foot on my X1C, but I use orca slicer, maybe that's why. I haven't used Bambu Studio since Orca Slicer was released.
Definitely things to look into. Yes especially with white to black. Thanks!
Prusa prints better. 5 vs 4 colors, prints and changes faster with less waste.
Bambu wins on ease of use though. I think the AMS is easier to load, no feeding through tubes and a buffer. And less desk space used. Although the AMS lite is a similar use of desk space.
Bambu wins big on efficient desk space usage. But with Prusa, you can use any dry box. I have connect 2 x SUNLU S4 to my MMU.
You also don't have to build the AMS.
Yes I could fit 3 Bambu X1C AMS in the space of 1 Prusa MK4 MMU3. And my helpers have a really hard time loading the MMU3. So it's been a hard decision for me on which is more efficient. Thanks!
16 V 5 colours actually.
Someone should try to change filament change gcode on bambu to work in same way as in case of MMU. There is a lot of filament left in hotend when bambu makes cut so in order to change color, extruder has to push a lot of old filament out of hotend, resulting in a lot of waste material. It would be much less when bambu would work same as MMU, lowering temperature and pulling out filament and then loading next filament and priming nozzle with that new filament by printing on purge block
I think there are ways to get this down by lowering the amount of purge in Bambuslicer. But I just wanted to start off with stock settings. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Agreed, nothing wrong with that. There is setting in bambu slicer where custom purge length can be set depending which color is being used after some specific color. For example using black after white doesnt need to purge so much as if youre using white after black etc... Happy printing :)
Booth of those looked great! Just some tweaks for lots of waste on the Bambu. In a few days the k2 plus with mmu go on pre-sale it’s a bigger bed so I did not update the Pursa MK4 and holding off for the larger bed
Oh I can't wait! Thanks!
Set your Z offset in Prusa Slicer to +0,05 and the lip will be gone :)
If there's still a little lip left you can run a test print with live adjust Z, note the value where you set it to get the perfect first layer and enter this value for future prints in Prusa Slicer.
THE perfect value will be affected by what steel sheet you're using, your filament, how well it's calibrated, ... but for my MK4 +0,05 is the best all round offset working perfectly with all plates and filaments.
Thank you!
The default settings are definitely wasteful, but there has been great progress on cutting down purge for color changes on Bambu machines. Check out the Bambulab forums.
Also, I mostly stopped having the X1C auto calibrate before each print. I hated the loss of time, hadn't even thought much about the loss of filament. I just run the auto calibration on 4 new rolls in ones step before I use them, and the X1C saves that info. Then you don't have to do it again unless you let the filament get very wet. In which case, I would re-dry it, and run the auto calibration again on it's own.
If you try all those things, I'd love to see a video update to see the new results. AMS still may use more than MMU. I don't know. But at least it won't be a drastic of a difference between the 2.
Oh that's a good point. Just get the X1C calibrated with the filament etc and go from there. Thank you!
Quite a nice video.
Even with just a smal part of the print being multicolour, the much faster filament change of the mk4/mmu3 combo already gives a faster overall print time. Cut&Poo on Bambulab realy takes it's time (and waste).
As you said you want to print a lot of theese houses, it should not matter wich printer you use. If you have the whole printbed full of tiny houses, the waste of the AMS do not realy matter much - and the bed of the Bambulab is bigger. The mk4/MMU3 is however better for prototypes/testing.
Yeah those are good points. So far, they are pretty comparable. Thanks!
Lord lubaduck! Don't let the Bambu Lab fanbois see this. :-) I have an X1C with AMS and I have a Prusa MK3.9 with a MMU3. This is the reason I use the Prusa for multi color prints and the X1C gets used for single color prints. The only way to get less waste from multi color prints is to use either an IDEX or a tool changer. I know you can do up to 16 colors with Bambu Lab, but I rarely ever do more than 2 because I mainly do text on parts.
Just comparing waste and timing isn't the only things to compare but it's definitely a start. Thanks so much!
As somebody who is currently stuck between the two and consider myself quite cheap when it comes to filament, does this apply even with Bambu Lab's long retraction update?
Thanks for the video.
Can you do the same test with the Prusa XL ?
I plan to skip adding a MMU to my MK4 and go for the XL because if the multimaterial suppor. But waste reduction would be another reasin
Sure. I find the default XL is pretty similar to the MMU/MK4 waste. Most of the time I run the XL without a tower at all so there isn't any waste. Thanks!
There is a setting in the slicer for elephants foot compensation.
I'll check it out. Thank you!
Interesting info thanks. The Creality CFS multicolour system is due out in July I think. Multi colour 3d printing is going to create a big surge in 3D printing I reckon. Laurie NZ. 😊
Can't wait!! Thanks!
I’m curious is the Prusa with mmu cost higher than Bambu Labs. The A1 mini is pretty cheap as an entry multi color printer. How long before the cost vs waste equation evens out.
Yes Prusa costs more. Multi-material is faster with less waste. The customer support is better. The printer build quality is higher. The printer is repairable and upgradable. Prusa is more reputable company. Prusa is not collecting your personal data.
Flip-side. Prusa is still playing catchup on ease of use and QoL features. Prusa's aesthetic is dated.
To compare an MK4 assembled with the MMU3, you're at about $1418. The MMU3 build is not quick. If you choose to do the kit MK4 with MMU3, you're closer to $1098. I would give yourself at least 24 hours to build.
The Bambu X1C with AMS is $1449 and can be setup in less than an hour.
Altho those are the two flagship printers, both companies have many options at different price points.
Lots of things to compare. Thanks!
@@dsjove A1 mini is so much more well built than Prusa mini.
Anderson Ronald Thomas Joseph Martinez Ruth
The Prusa MMU is much more efficient.
Hi, thanks for posting a video comparing the 2 MMU solutions. I'm not convinced the MMU3 is outright better, since it does not feature a cutter thus introduces the potential for stringy filament tips. I am impressed otherwise it's still able to keep good quality despite that drawback, otherwise it's relative cost and lack of a drybox/storge solution coupled with the lack of built in hardware to automatically troubleshoot on the fly is a tradroff. I own the X1C + AMS, I have been running filament flushes with 0.5 multiplier and used the custom GCODE for the filament retraction before cut. Bambu has since included the retraction cut in the most recent BambuStudio by enabling it as an experimental option. Anecdotally my material usage on changes went down by over 60 percent. Bear in mind I don't believe Bambu Studio accounts for retraction cutting in its estimate. Ultimately I still think the Prusa XL is the way to go right now for anyone who seriously wants to do multiple color prints more than anything else. Otherwise on a casual level the Bambu A1 + AMS Lite is very hard to beat considering the cost of entry and ease of use compared to Prusa MK3 + MMU3.
I agree the Bambu are very competitive. I like my Prusa 5XL but it still has some random quirks that make it hard to use for everything. Thanks so much!
Nice summary comparison. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Did you calibrate the flushing volumes for the bambu AMS?
Just running default and stock for now. Thanks!
Probably not, this is an honest review, read Prusa is better. Probably flushing ratio on 1.0 🤣
Prusa: Everything is 7g including waste.
Bambu: Poops before adding anything else - 9g. Not even with the tower and the print.
Yikes. I knew the Bambu was a bit worse with waste than the Prusa, but that's just insane.
It is possible to optimize it a bit, by default it poops a bit too much to avoid color bleed. I think teaching tech once made a video about it.
@@atnfn It can be optimized to a certain extent, but the underlying problem is that the cutter leaves a lot of filament in the nozzle. Bambu (or the community) would have to essentially replicate Prusa's stamping method to really make it similar to the MMU3. I'm sure it's possible, as it shouldn't require special hardware, but it would require some R&D to make sure the tip forms properly with every filament, which is what Prusa had to do to make the MMU3 work properly.
Yeah it's interesting how each company handles it. Thanks so much!
if you look into bigger models, a 50/60g part with a few colors can end up consuming a whole spool of filament. As others have said there are some options that help with the waste and there are strategies to optimize the use of every filament change (ex. print as many of the same parts at once so every color change is used on many different pieces), but even after all that, the bambu system is just insanely wasteful. Very reliable and ready to go, compared to the more complicated affair that is the MMU, but my god, what a waste.
Bambu has recently made the amount of filament left in the nozzle smaller.
Also, you do have to remember, that this is worse the smaller the volume of things being printed is. When you scale this out any amount at all, they become pretty negligible in difference.
x1c have issues with sharp corners because the first purge lines fail and bambu lidar didn't collect the data from them
I haven't noticed that before. Thanks!
Prusa looks much better tbh.
Hello can you try printing as many as you can in one bed for both mk4 and bambu? Maybe the bambu will win in terms of quantity, time, and waste if you print more than one.
That's an interesting point. Thanks!
1. Elephant foot to change, or Z offset in gcode
2. Flushing ratio probably to high
3. Prime tower? Rly? for what with so big flushing....
this is definitely not an honest review. test from the series Prusa is better before this movie starts
would be curious what the XL results would be
True. It's hard to compare everything! Thanks!
MMU tip: Use sparse layers, set the wide tower width to 200, and put it along back of plate, part to front. Save even more on wipe tower!!
Be careful with that option. There nothing that prevents you from crashing the print head into the printed part. Then you waste a lot of filament on a failed print.
@@PerMejdal if you keep the parts to the front of the distance of the forward-most part of the extruder to the nozzle, this won’t happen. I keep a non printable part of this size for reference. I print literally hundreds of parts this way for production and I never get failures (except once I had the print bed rotated and I didn’t realize! And then printed wipe tower front and part back and then cable collided with the part 🤣). It’s a reliable thing if you keep the right distance.
Thank you!
I saw comments on the Prusa web page that there are some types of filaments that can't be used on MMU3 and it's not easy to uninstall MMU3... How big is that list, and how it compares to Bambu AMS?
The only thing I have not been able to run on the MMU3 so far is TPU.
And with the Bambu AMS I can't run anything with a slim spool if that makes sense. I have some Sunlu Wood and Tronxy Support that the spools are half width. Those don't run. I have heard people say cardboard doesn't run well on Bambu. That's not been my experience so far.
Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I wonder if there is any workaround / hack to get TPU back at least temporarily. Like maybe disabling MMU3, disconecting the extruder tube and feeding TPU directly? This TPU issue is actually the only thing that holds me back from buying MMU3...
Yes I believe you can "turn off" the MMU3 in the settings and run it like a normal print. You can easily unscrew the tube that goes directly into the Extruder. I'll see if I can get this to work. Not sure if it would want it sliced for the MMU3 or without.
Wish there was a thumbnail comparison you could do to show the time and money you have to put into both systems. So many factors here on what is the better system but the AMS waste is a very serious problem.
Yes I agree there are many things to consider. Thanks!
The AMS produces a lot more waste than the MMU3. The MMU is a quite complicated addition, but with a good build quality. The AMS looks over complicated to me and the build quality is just a bit over flimsy. However I don't like neither of these solutions for multi filament prints. A tool changer (like the Prusa XL) is much faster and produces a minimum of waste. If you use the infill for filament purges the waste is even zero.
Thank you!
What's your filament favorite brand ?
I really like Overture for almost everything. My favorite wood filament right now is Sunlu Burly. And I like Amoleon for tricolor filament. Thanks!
Wow I didn't know AMS makes so much more waste.
Yes but I do find Bambu easier to load and use. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Indeed it is. Loading original filament and color management is better on Bambu.
That elephant foot is very bad on the bottom. I'm surprised you are calling the equal
You're right. But since it's on the back, it's not my main focus. Thanks!
How does the mmu flush out the filament before going to the next? Is it entirely in the tower? The bambu flushed a ton of poop. But could the bambu be setup to flush entirely into the tower instead of pooping, saving in waste as the mmu did?
With the MMU, the filament is "stamped" in the nozzle to create a nice tip, it's pulled back into the MMU, the new filament is loaded, then its purged into the tower. So the MMU can have a larger tower than Bambu, but without the poops. Personally, I just don't understand why Bambu decided to not use the tower for the entire purge.
@@logicalfundy I've a couple of bambu printers and i think i may try such an experiment. It's possible to adjust the "flush" (poop) ratio #s in the bambu and orca slicers, and i wonder if i can set that flushing # to 0 (no flush poop). We can also adjust prime tower dimensions and, maybe more importantly, it's tower DENSITY. I can try increasing tower density allot (to flush/prime allot more filament into the tower).
Although I'm pretty certain I'm not the first to try this experiment, and there's a good chance this won't work. I'll find out 😄
@@logicalfundy I'm running a quick test and I've made interesting discovery. Bambu/Orca slicers we can set the flush ratio =0 (no flush poop). And we can increase the prime tower volume density from the 45ms volume (default) to 250+ms volume.
Then i created a simple narrow rectangular model only 20 layers high. There are 4 color changes each later (gold, red, black, white). The way the bambu works, it still has to load the nozzle with each filament change, even if flush ratio is 0. This means there is still a very small poop each filament color change. But it is only enough to get new filament into the hot end.
Then when a color change occurs it pauses printing to poop a little waste. That is referred to as "pushing in new filament" which is different than the larger poops when "flushing filament". There is no "flush"because the ratio = 0.
Then it goes to prime tower. That was set to 250ms (default is 45ms vol) which means the tower is about twice as wide (it's external dimensions) compared to a default prime tower. And it is ALLOT more volume (mass? density?) inside the tower too. The idea is I'm trying to get it to perform a flush into tower instead of pooping waste+priming.
It works kinda. The tower is very fat and dense. The colors aren't as pure, because the flush poop never occurred and even with the dense print tower that's not enough to flush out prior color.
The result: the small print experiment finished 8 minutes faster than when printing with normal poop flushes and it uses only 5.45g total filament (huge portion of that was in the tower , not model) compared to 8.85g using normal flush.
Conclusion: Bambu prints cleaner when it can do it's flush rather than relying solely on cleaning out old filament and priming into a tower.
Kudos to Prusa making their MMU3 so efficient 👍
@@BennyTygohome Interesting observation. I'm watching a video by the 3D Printing Professor - and it looks like Bambu printers actually cut the filament above the heat sink, leaving a rather significant amount of filament in the nozzle.
Prusa decided to not do that and to "stamp" the filament instead, meaning no cut is made and virtually all of the filament is retracted.
@@BennyTygohomeI did this experiment almost 2 years ago after receiving my Kickstarter X1CC, but instead of a purge tower I purged to another object. It worked great until the surface area of the purged object wasn't enough at certain layers. I had barely any waste, just some short strings as you said. I think I'll revisit this sometime with the new "long retract when cut" feature of the latest firmware. It's supposed to save 25% of filament since it pulls it from the nozzle before cutting the end. In theory we should have an idea of the exact amount left in the nozzle, so it would be nice if the slicer could indicate if our purge object is adequate for every layer and we could set margin for error to make sure there's no bleed.
Stupid comparison, done by a clueless person.
The flush is horrible.
No saying AMS will is better, but what is showing here is completely misleading.
😂
Why be so rude?
@@BeefIngot because this is completely misleading and a click bait.
I'm running my own design on two printers with stock settings. I'm showing my results. I don't see anything misleading. Sorry that your favorite brand didn't "win" this one. Maybe it will win the next.
Was it prusament filament?
Yes, the green is. Thanks!
I bet the elephant's foot was due to using the generic profile in the X1 for the prusament, and if you used bambu filament in the prusa mk4 with their generic settings the same thing would probably happen. I usually run the filament calibrations for whatever I put through p1s or mk3 they both handle everything slightly different, haven't had to play with elephant foot compensation at all yet for either machine. This is just a guess though
Edit: I don't like Bambus closed sourceor the amount of waste they produce so this video was very helpful in swaying me toward getting the XL as my next purchase
Good testing and straight to the point
I usually don't have an issue with elephant foot so I will check this out. Thanks so much for the support!
Prusa Is a joke. Their junk solutions are lost touch with reality 😂 Especially considering price and hastle. Also seems like you are not optimised purge size for bambulab so this comparison is NOT fair.
The price a about the same for Prusa MK4+MMU og Bambu P1S+AMS. The comparison is fair, you can optimize on both sides. In the end of the day, the AMS have to purge a lot more, because it cut the filament, and what is left needs to be purged.
Bambu fanboys are a joke.
Just comparing stock and default for now. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting Just an FYI, but you might benefit from clicking the calibration option that is stock in Bambu studio with the correct colors selected.
Ok I'll check it out. Thank you!