A Simple Solution for a Marginal Gain - Wind Tunnel
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Same shoe, 2 fastening solutions. Is the Boa or the humble lace up faster?
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I think this series has been a huge success. You've planned it out really well. The videos are short and snappy but full of content and information. I'm really enjoying them. You really thought through how to get enough content in the can so you can fight your way through those first 6 weeks of new born sleep deprivation. Congrats.
And actually gives us the info we are all wanting. Can't tell you how many wind tunnel videos I've watched especially from triathletes that never share the actual results
I can imagine people actually would pay for this type of content as well!
"If this series is a success" ... Hell yes. First thing I check on youtube every morning. More of this, more data, more diagrams !!!
100 rpm 165mm cranks, 6.22 km/h at pedal axle, ~9 km/h at the top of the foot at the top of the stroke, ~3.5 km/h at the top of the foot at the bottom of the stroke (obviously in the opposing direction relative to the ground)
The number (6.2 km/h) does not change, just the direction of the vector. So at the top the shoe does 61.2 km/h, in relation to the ground, at the top 47.8 km/h
*47.8 at the bottom
@@Horstelin I was quite obviously isolating the circular motion of the pedalstroke from the forward motion of a bike.
And it's not that simple at all. Even ignoring the fact that a pedal stroke has a variable angular velocity, the radial distance between the top of the shoe and the crankshaft is varying. It is the longest at the top of the pedalstroke and the shortest at the bottom of the pedalstroke (in simple theory at least, to get a real answer you would have to analyse the individual rider's pedalstroke to see how exactly their ankle angle changes over a revolution).
@@invisiblescout6335 I don't think the shoe plays a role here, assuming the foot stays in constant angle to the ground, the tip of the shoe or the heel or any point will still do a rotation with a 165mm radius.
Shit thats right, maybe i should sleep more
This series is a complete success. This is kind of info that is not at our desk, only at pro / expensive level! Thanks for giving us such info Alex
Would be interested to see this again with aero overshoes thrown into the mix. I've recently bought some aero overshoes for my lace up shoes and am wondering if they're actually faster or not than the shoes with just aero socks, due to the laces 'tripping' the airflow.
The laces are probably tripping in the wrong spot... the leading edge wouldn't be where tripping would be optimal
But agree would be interesting to see if the losses of the boa are mitigated
I thought the same initially, but the other shoes I tested threw up some results that wouldn’t reflect that train of thought. That’s Wednesday’s video.
@AlexDowsettOfficial Cool, looking forward to it ! If thats the case, im imagining overshoes might start appearing with some trip type stuff on the shoe part of it, as far as I can see everyone makes them smooth in that area at the minute.
Love this content !
@@AlexDowsettOfficial glad to know that my purchase might not have been a bad one!
Can You confirm that the insole of Torch lace is about 5mm longer than boa version? (At the same sized shoes)
You must compare Torch Lace vs road 7. Road 7 are probably more aero because of slimmer rear end. Torch boa & lace have wide heel cup and these are less aero. For best aero the rear end is more important than front of the shoes and closure system (boa or laces)☝️
Great series. Great content with easy take away points.
When Specialized had their Sub6 lace shoe, they also supplied a sleeve that you slide on over the laces. The claim with the sleeve vs. dual boa was 35s/40km, which is a lot more than what you've found here. Regardless, it would suggest that laces vs. boas is more about boas adding drag rather than laces doing any fancy turbulation stuff
I was wondering this. I use an old broken set of velotoze cut up as a sleeve over laces, interesting to see if that's faster or slower...
they compare sub6 with old road6 shoes. new road 7 have S3 boas that they have specific thread that reducing Cda więc road 7 są szybsze od road 6 dlatego tomas pidcock i peto sagan używają ich cały czas bo są to najlepsze dotchczas wykonane buty od Specialized
No doubt "The controversial cyclist" will have something to say about this. He is just an attention seeking little man who has befriended Hambini trying to slaughter all mainstream cycling channels....Keep up the inform Alex.
Came across his stuff, it's just the usual clout chasing drivel, thinking he's going against the grain and sticking it to the man.
A nice gain until a shoe lace comes loose and gets caught in the front sprocket. 🤣
The t shirt describe this perfectly
And they’re for sale 😉
NoPinz socks are indeed quite nice. They don't fall down and the materials are durable... no ripping when pulling them on.
And people spend $500 for a ceramic speed OSPW that only saves 5 watts. 🤣
If these saved 5 watts everybody would run them. They save half to three quarters of a watt apparently. You won't see claims on their website because the results are pretty embarrassing
If you go back to the wind tunnel I want to see how much turning your head impacts you aerodynamically. This is one of my pet peeves that I hate when watching bike races that come down to the wire.
Wonder if people might start adding trip strips to smooth surfaces like the top of a Bont Zero?
Easy gain and can be more comfy. Remco is on the laces this year, Pogi has been on it surprised visma hasn’t jumped into the laced nimbls yet
true but still reckon laces will be faster based on the other tests I've seen. More Nimbl riders have been riding the lace ups this season too@@Pablo_Coach
@@logojones96 Yes, but You have gain in aero departament with laces but loosing in power transfer because You don’t tighten the laces for hard efforr like sprinting, climbing.
Sure, I've always heard that but what I've noticed is the laced shoes stay tight the entire ride because the expand/contract with my foot. Instead of your foot moving and having to tighten the boas part way on a ride. So far it has been a nice change!😄@@Pablo_Coach
@@logojones96 tell me, if you tie the laces quite tightly at the beginning, after some time, when the foot swells a little due to exertion, will it not be too tight?
that hasn't happened yet, but it definitely could we will see! @@Pablo_Coach
Gotta see what those shoe covers do to both
The shoes with laces might be "faster" than those with the boa's but the boa's will always be easier to loosen or to tighten while ridding. So I guess I'll stick to boa's.
Thanks. What’s the gain with 45 km/h? Think 55 km/h will be a wish for most of us. 😅
Such a great series.
May you do more like this.
And I do need new shoes too....
Nice, will use my addidas velo samba lace up in upcoming time trial! stylish and fast.
Don't think it's the laces but rather the boas creating the drag.
I thought the same initially, but the other shoes I tested threw up some results that wouldn’t reflect that train of thought. That’s Wednesday’s video.
Rear end of the shoe more affect aerodynamics than laces or boa dials
how? @@Pablo_Coach
@@DanTuber there is a lot of turbulence and slow air behind the shoe. When rear end of the shoes have aerofoil shape then this shoes are faster (there is less turbulence and faster air behind the good aero optimised shoes). .The blunt heel causes a lot of drag. Also properly designer pedal/ shoe interface help in reducing drag.
Nope, cylinders out in airflow are slow. Has nothing to do with trips or boundary layer. You simply have larger frontal area and separated flow behind the Boa dials
I thought the same initially, but the other shoes I tested threw up some results that wouldn’t reflect that train of thought. That’s this evening’s video.
It's perfect, I found the same result in my homemade wind tunnel."
That is much much larger than I was expecting. I get that a lace is more aero than a dial, but I was assuming that anything moving around that much is so turbulent anyway, it wouldn't matter.
What's next? Clean shaven or five o'clock shadow?
Good insight. Keep these coming. I use giro empire shoes with laces so that’s good that I am getting a little help 💪🏻😂
If they are a success?, i almost take a break during work to watch the video when u upload one 😂😂
I hope this series is a success for you. By my measures (content, watchability, interest, humour, etc.) they sure are. I'm even thinking I could implement some stuff in the upcoming Ford/Chelmer TT series. Perhaps you could come to along, smash us all😮
"involving a calculation using Pi"....mmmm, pie!
I’m guessing overshoes are about to become less popular.
Bite size nuggets of aero information, answering the questions that keep me awake at night. A great series, thanks.
Did you realise, that the graph and table seems to compare the S-works shoe with boa vs the TT5 Helmet with sock?
Yes, apologies, thanks for the heads up. The tt5 labelled line is the baseline, which was the lace up shoe. I’ve had to change the label names for each vid and this one slipped through the net. But the graph is correct which is the important thing. 👌
Now I know why Pogi wears them
he just likes them more
That graph says "specialised TTs with sock" Is this one of the ones where the results got mixed? Also was great to see you at the Cicle classic yesterday!
It was the baseline that I used to compare against, so it is correct line on the graph, just mislabelled for this specific video. That line is also the spec helmet and standard position/suit
Interesting! I run boas because I assumed they would be faster than straps. I also assumed they would be faster than laces. And... I was wrong again!
Boa's are faster to put on. So if you count that time, you still could be back home earlier...
So... for breakaway laces better. What about sprinter wanting to make his shoes very tight for the last few km of a long ride in the bunch?
In this case boas are way way better solution
I woule love a talk about rim width/ rim depth/tire rolling resistance/ inner tube etc...
Why? Loads of videos on that already and some seriously good Web sites covering that as well.
Would be interesting to see how something like the bont zero+ with the velcro flap stack and dimples up
Wednesday 😉
What size shoes are there?
That's good to know. I always thought it was hilarious when bike manufacturers hit upon this revolutionary technique of fastening shoes, after years of straps and ratchets and velcro and dials - laces! Who'd've thought?
Surface area is different. Boas poking out and churning up extra air. Laces not.
I thought the same initially, but the other shoes I tested threw up some results that wouldn’t reflect that train of thought. That’s Wednesday’s video.
@@AlexDowsettOfficial Looking forward to it! Great feedback.
@@AlexDowsettOfficial Very little that's intuitive in aerodynamics. Test, test, test! Loving the series.