As long as those pedals have been discontinued / are no more produced, I think it is fair. It is a kind of second life for those iconic products and allows many more people to enjoy those effects close to their original form. There are so many clones that are not explicitly mentionning their 'source' of inspiration. This series is so close to the original that it is nearly an hommage to the original!!
I agree with this take. The only pedal in the WA lineup here I'd say is controversial is the Warm Drive since Lovepedal is still actively making pedals, like the Zen Drive. Fulltone was out of business when the ODD dropped, but now is back, so I guess they may want to reconsider that one as well.
I think this the gentleman’s agreement amongst amongst ethical pedal builders. It’s one thing if a company that went under long ago had circuit designs that are no longer available are copied, even if there’s no modern updates (100% model remake). But most builders will want to make a few tweaks, and it’s up to the consumer to decide if they’re cool with that (I’d trust Josh since I know how he’s updated a classic circuit, there’s going to be a sound reason) It’s another thing if a company that typically just copies a circuit to put it in a cheap plastic housing using inferior components is just known for being a company that provides rock-bottom priced clones. Often their only recourse for excusing it in court is that they’re copying the second or third mark of a circuit design that the original company is offering in a mark 7 or 8 version. For me, the latter alludes to Josh’s feelings about the company cloning to even use trade dress. You don’t have to use the artwork of the cloned pedal. The rule of thumb seems to be to name the pedal something kitschy that alludes to the original pedal’s name or what its circuit is infamous for. Yeah, the average 1-guitar owner ISO a cheap copy of the pedal he played over a buddy’s place would pick up a clone like those being discussed in the video. But for those of trying to live the dream, ethics matter.
When I worked at Fulltone in Culer City, CA. He had a huge sign over the employee water fountain that said "Fake workmans comp claims are illegal" Really boosted morale, hahahaha. True story.
Over the past two years I started to build up my home studio. In my search for the best studio gear at the best price, I came across Warm Audio. I decided to give them a try with one of their mic pre’s and mics. I loved the tone & sound I was getting from those 2 pieces of gear, I ended up buying more of their gear. Now almost all of my outboard gear and mics are all Warm. I had also moved to the Austin area about a year and a half ago, for work. I realized 6 months ago, their head quarters is like 10 minutes from my house. So, I reached out, and they were super friendly and invited me to come tour their world class recording studio. I ended up attending the “Produce Like a Pro” 3 day class that Warren & Joe Carrell held at Warm studios, last month. Such an awesome experience. I can say first hand, getting to hang around their headquarters, meeting a good number of their employees, seeing how the owners Bryce & Aubrey interact & treat people. They are an awesome company, with awesome gear! They have a life long customer in me. (I also own 5 of their pedals, & all of them are awesome!!!)
Best comment award goes to my guy @jasoncalderon5415 !! We loved having you and WOW I didn’t know you had 5 PEDALS! I feel like it should be a buy 5 get one 75% off or something. 😜😘
I think he did say he’d protect his copyrights, and he is (as I expected) restarting production in Nashville. TBH Fulltone has a strong enough following that the ODD isn't worth the legal fees to stop.
Yea, Fulltone suddenly just stopped and used prices of Fulltone pedals went up above retail price so i was kinda glad when i first saw the Warm ODD because now there was an new quality product avaliable as an alternative to overpriced used originals. I didn't buy because i still have a functioning OCD but i thought the market is healthier with a product like that. Mike Fuller said nothing about picking up production somewhere else, i mean this would have been big news for me.
I love this, when pedals start to reach the $7500 dollar mark ( Klon ) without reissues from the original maker, something needs to be done. Keep it up Warm Audio, I love my Centavo!!!
First: GREAT episode JHS Team...I truly enjoy the content you provide, and your production value is off the charts! Second: I'm all for the clones, in fact I think it's a nice 'nod' to the person/people/manufacturer who made the original. I was fortunate enough to meet Daniel Scheinert [one of "The 'Daniel's" that directed the films 'Everything, Everywhere, All at Once', 'Swiss Army Man', & 'Turn Down for What' music video, etc..etc...] in Kansas City, MO in May 2023 for Destination Imagination [he was a former D.I. participant in the early 2000's]. He spoke to all of us on a panel discussion and said [and I'm paraphrasing] 'Borrow and steal from the creative person or people that you admire...you'll end up making YOUR OWN version of what you are seeking to make.' Lennon & McCartney 'borrowed' from the Everly Brothers, Little Richard, The Beach Boys, etc. Keith Richards has literally said "I've stolen all of my guitar licks from Chuck Berry". Chuck Berry stole all of his guitar licks from his piano player Johnnie Johnson [watch the film 'Hail, Hail, Rock and Roll']? So kudos to all you pedal makers, I thoroughly enjoy seeing and hearing what you come up with. Cheers! - Robbie T.
Agreed, but I don't like that, either. Though, I suppose it does elevate the Strat or Les Paul to that of violin or trumpet status, where, the design IS the instrument, one in the same.
@@bryanherward4679 It's all lame. I love Strats and I love Jimi but I don't want to build Strats and I don't want to fake that I'm Jimi. Influence and homage are one thing, just making Strats "the way you've always wanted" or totally mimicking Jimi's voice, playing, clothes, hair, y'know, but with more polished recordings or whatever--- why? I think Suhr make the finest Strats, for example, but what the hell for? Fender also makes a great Strat, and it's theirs. Me, personally, I'd just want to do or make something else. I've never gotten the whole gussied up copy market, finances aside. But still, my comment up top. The Strat or LP or Tele, SG etc. they've almost become The Instrument proper the way the violin or trumpet have. Surely there are variations between trumpet makers or violin crafters but, really, the design is settled and the design is the instrument. They've gone through minuscule changes over their long years. Sure, a Yamaha may look like a Stradivarius but there is a performance difference. I suppose that is an argument for a Suhr Strat. I just wouldn't want to make them, I'd rather make something... else. In terms of this pedal argument, if Fender wasn't making Strats anymore then have at it, but they are, in varying levels of price and build quality, so, for me, I'd do something else. But Warm Audio, make me a Foxx octave fuzz, because that's an instrument I still want to interact with and it's lost to history (hello, LM-1). Anyway, it's all a little gray.
@@mykhedelic6471 Really only meant to clarify the issue. I love Strats...but even those could be argued copied Bigsby's body...Leo just got it right the first time (minus the 3 way switch)...add the Tele and the P Bass...Don't have a problem with clones...they're old designs...Yeah Fender is still around, but Leo designed it...He used the same designs at Music Man and G&L. I don't really have a problem with Warm Audio..AS someone with over 100 pedals, I understand that cloning and circuit development is part of all of it. I try to minimize the number of Chinese clone pedals I have unless they have extra features. For example, the Mooer Elec Lady is a great Mistress clone and offers a micro case and an added mode switch. Since it's a vintage circuit, I'm not really torn about it even though EHX is still around...I'd own the EHX version if they made one. But, the OCD is personal. I hated the way the woke mob went after Mike Fuller and no one came to his defense. Pretty sure JHS even left him out of the Pedal Movie...I mean how can you tell the history of pedal s without Fulltone. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Don't want to see a rip off clone when the man was forced out of business just a couple years ago.
To add to this discussion, a bunch of the warm audio pedals especially the Jet Phaser is reselling on Reverb higher than the original price. What Warm Audio has done is very similar to what Dunlop did with the original Dallas-Arbiter fuzz faces, where those 90's fuzz reissues are re-selling pretty high as well. They found a really cool niche, and because they are being so faithful to the original and not just trying to be a wholesale knockoff, I don't have any issues. (not that anyone asked me, or cares about my opinion).
I love all the warm audio stuff. The klon clones are amazing, and because they look like the real thing it makes it even better. It makes things that should be affordable anyway available to normal people.
I love that there are amazing new and old pedals from boutique builders, but that comes at a cost. I also love that for those of us who either have limited access to boutique pedals, or can't afford them, there are more affordable clones.
It boils down to this for me: things that lead to more human beings discovering and exploring and playing music, (especially with other human beings!) is ultimately a net plus. Music and guitar have been the throughline of my life for 46 years and counting, and I KNOW I’m not the only one here who can say that music saved my life. Happy picking, pickers.
I was yelling at the TV during the Lucky Cat discussion. You guys went waaaay off topic with the feelings thing, but it’s a great question. If Warm cloned a JHS pedal no longer in production, and they sourced quality original parts and executed it extremely well, and even nailed Josh’s standards for trade dress and tone, then I’d be good with it. Because they executed well on something that was in demand and Josh has chosen to no longer make. Even if it were my own product I’d feel the same, because I chose to move on to other things.
I went into a guitar shop to buy a Charlie Brown a year ago and saw the Foxy Tone Box, immediately had to try it and then when I heard the price I COULD NOT believe it. I never EVER thought I could get a Foxx tone machine in my life. It also paired nice with the CB so I left with both! This is 100% true
This happened to me 2 days ago! Well, more like I went in to try the Legends of Fuzz, which they didn't have, but I saw this fuzzy orange box in the case and had to try it. After spending 3 hours in the shop, it beat out 5 other fuzz boxes they had. This thing is amazing.
I think what they’re doing is great. people want products they can actually get/buy, so if they make high quality clones that do exactly what you want them to do, by all means, make them and buy them.
I think warm audio and companies like them were the enema the industry needed. Its outrageous that such cool sounding gear is almost always unobtainium for non millionaires. These bits of gear sound as good if not better than the original gear they pay homage to. Due to better component tolorances & no component value drift over the decades of time the originals may suffer from. More power & sales to em. 👍
Fulltone ( The original band) Warm Audio (Tribute Band) Poorly Made Clones (ok-ish small town bar band) Local cover band is great for a local night out drinking. They're weekend warriors that play for fun and want to make money to pay for their gear and a little extra spending money. Tribute band is great if you can't see the real thing. I can't go see The Doors, but I can go see The Back Doors and almost get the real experience. These players are serious musician's that want to make a living playing music and out of love for the original band. Imitation is the best form of flattery.
The line is Chibson. If someone clones a Big Muff and slaps the words "Big Muff" and "electro-harmonix" or "ehx" or even "elektro-harmoniks" on it, then they've crossed the line.
I like what Warm Audio is doing. Allowing me to buy a pedal, that I always wanted and recognize by sight but isn't exactly the original, but is new and at an affordable price.
Clones are AWESOME! For example, I did a clone of a Tim Escobedo “push me-pull you” driven by Hemmo’s “Bazz Fuss.” I’m calling it “The Wizard of Green.” Because these are both well-known (and publicly available) DIY circuits I’m of course not going to claim design credit for myself (I didn’t even bother to alter the “gain” knob on the push me-pull you to do anything significant…I just gave it a nebulous name like “feelings” and left it in there…)
As a gear lover in a perpetual state of little to no gear money, I love what Warm Audio does, and with what little info I have (I don’t care to dig for it), I must assume that the original brands must not care, otherwise I don’t think WA would even get that far before a cease and desist. I don’t believe in magical chips, but I do believe in a good recipe. That’s what Warm Audio delivers.
This has always been warm audios thing, they have started branching out into their own designs but their goal is to bring affordability to gear the bedroom musician might not be able to afford. I would suggest taking a look at the produce like a pro interview with their founder it's very insightful
I have to say I kind of admire Warm Audio. Their painstaking recreation of these pedals is impressive. I'm reminded of Tokai re-creating classic guitars back in the 70's. I see this as paying homage to the original creations.
Love it!! Not everyone can afford a Klone, not everyone can find a Zen Drive, and some of those pedals are not being made anymore. Love the fact that this make it “accessible “.
I'm grateful for warm audio producing products that are no longer manufactured and are expensive. I own several warm products and they are awesome, affordable and capture the feel of the original. Thanks Warm for bringing us the goods!
In the 70’s and early 80’s I had an original Foxx Tone Machine. I don’t think I’m the only one that gets nostalgic for gear they had as a kid. For years I wanted another, and vintage units were ridiculously expensive $700-$800 for a beat up pedal. I’m very thankful to Warm Audio for making an aesthetically accurate replica without it being a rip off. I know in the early 2000’s someone was making complete rip offs and Steve Ridinger the original pedal maker was not happy about that. I bought Steve’s 3699 & love it but I still was nostalgic for the fuzzy pedal. Thanks Warm Audio
true reproductions should mimic the original exactly and I'm always up for preservation so having new options available while other are out of production gives the experience back to the masses. 100% support Warm audio (also own a foxy tone box)
I just got a Jet Phaser, Mutation, Odd box and Foxey Tone box in to the store I work at yesterday. They're pretty great sounding pedals across the board.
WOW, at first glance, I thought that was a OCD LOL, but it's an ODD. Honestly, if the pedal sounds good and no copyright infringements and being broken, I think it's great. That being said, the ascetics and appearance of some pedals is more iconic than its actual sound it produces. e.g. One mighty not care of the ODD looks like an OCD or not, but one would probably get a thrill out of a KLON looking like a KLON. I own the warm audio version as well as a KTR, both are great. My preference on the entire KLON thing is the JRocket Audio Archer silver. I love that pedal.
As a consumer I say keep ‘em coming warm audio people want them they can’t get them you pick up the slack from companies that can’t or won’t keep up with! Thank you warm and thank you josh!
On the trade dress specifically, I feel like if I want a fox tone machine I don’t want to hunt through millions of pedals to find the right circuit. I’m not as educated as all of that I need a bit of help and that where I think what they’re doing is more helpful than hurtful.
I think one reason people have such stronger feelings over this issue regarding guitar pedals, but NOT studio gear, is because with studio gear it happened so much longer ago. Neumann mics, for example, was birthed out of the WWII split of Germany as a country (they were derived from Telefunken) and initially Neumann was basically creating the same models that they had made when they were Telefunken but just on opposite sides of the Berlin Wall. After the Cold War ended people rediscovered the similarities of these classic tube microphones. They had different names & model numbers but were so similar. I also read an interview in TapeOp with the founder of Peluso microphones. He talked about starting his company with federal grant money under the Clinton administration during the big 90’s recession. He said he bought out of production classic microphones and reverse engineered them. Then put ads in music magazines to sell his creations. But guitar pedals - particularly the movement toward boutique manufacturers - have essentially grown in a parallel timeline with technology such as social media. It was a key ingredient to the growth of the entire industry! Makers and builders connected directly with their users, just as this show has done. There is much more personal investment from followers/users than with pro audio. I mean, I knew who Rupert Neve was, but I don’t know any of the guys who designed API consoles or Neumann mics. But I know Josh from JHS and Joel from Chase Bliss.
Im ok with it if the pedals are no longer being made or if the clone uses the topology but makes changes. Zendrives are still being made by Lovepedal. I just bought one.
It's great that Warm is making these pedals that not only look the part but sound the part. The bonus is they are available and affordable. Cherry on top is it helps limit the resellers trying to make a buck off of guitar players that don't collect & just want to make music.
I'm in the ethically conflicted camp. They definitely nailed the trade dress with what might be considered misleading accuracy. It would have been nice to see them try and put their own spin on it more like an Archer/Klon kind of thing, but I also understand the appeal of owning a replica. The Eames lounge chair comes to mind in the furniture industry. It's such a classic design and there are countless replicas and some are quite good for what they are. And the reality is many originals are simply unattainable for lots of people. Same goes for Behringer and the replica synths they're making these days. It serves a market and I think as long as their not trying pitch is as an original, and especially with out of production stuff, I think it's ok. I honestly think if someone really wants a Klon and can afford it they'll get it even with the plethora of close enough clones.
Yeah with limited releases, gear that's expensive enough to be out of reach of the hobbyist or working poor and/or out of production, I'm all for it. Clone that. People with the want and will, will buy the original. Good luck to them
@@ANWEsuigeneris It can be, but I'm not sure if any of these would qualify since it seems they're all out of production products. And they'd need to prove that a normal buyer would be confused thinking they're buying the other product. As Josh mentioned though they'd probably get a well deserved C&D letter though from any active company.
Josh you are totally right about the just guitar pedal land thing, and that is really interesting and crazy, cuz when I think about it, Pul-tec are still making pul-tecs, warm are doing those, Neumann is still making the 67-87s and so forth, but ive never heard anyone say that those are an issues, cuz people who aren't rich studio owners, and just home recordists, want to be able to use and own that gear, and like me want it to look and feel the same too! as much as sound the same. I freaking love it lol!
U would never buy an ocd pedal because ocd impacts me personally a lot and I don't think it's a joke to be taken lightly. I don't want to think about it when I look at a pedal. So this is right up my alley!
But isn’t ODD similarly something that shouldn’t be taken lightly? I teach a number of kids with oppositional defiance disorder, and it’s a pretty serious thing….
Thanks for another great live episode! Just curious if anyone else is noticing the volume issue. It seems significantly lower than other videos on RUclips and advertisements (while watching the playback). I’ve noticed this with other JHS live videos but forgot to mention it. I’m guessing it’s the live stream volume or compression settings because it doesn’t happen when you post pre-recorded videos.
I started building to get hold of things I could not find or afford.....if I could have found a fuzzface enclosure or a colorsound enclosure I would have done so and got them as close as possible to the originals. There are arguments in Studio world about whether "in the box" DAW effects need an attractive "analogue" interface or the most basic GUI...they do the same thing....at my age I go the Analogue route...I have Reaper skinned as a Midas XL3 and Revox Transport and my vsts are pretty much emulations of real rack gear. It makes me feel comfortable and immersed having grown up with "the real thing". Instead of building one, I recently bought a Foxx clone...the green one....and I looked into flocking it. I guess I'm O.K. with this thing Warm are doing...they look the part and are affordable and quality. They are not completely duplicating and attempting to pass off counterfeits. I think it gets under pedal worlds skin because every body that ever built a kit thinks they should be able to make a living out of it.
I've noticed that there is a lot of mystique around guitar pedals and guitars themselves. As a woodworker and someone who has made a lot of electronic devices, I don't see a lot of difference between two guitars or pedals. However, a lot of people may not, and some of the emotional response from people may be around the surface level copying, rather than anything logical about the company or there intentions. I have purchased several Warm Audio products and I like the products and the company. I think that as long as they aren't representing themselves as the actual competing product and they are open about their intentions (which I think they are) they're okay.
JHS made a pedal that sounds just like my Civil War era Big Muff, and I am thankful for it. However, the 2 units don’t look anything alike, and the JHS can be powered off a power brick, has better switching, etc. Cloning something long out of production down to the looks seems kinda quirky and fun enough, though better I’m sure a better package could be made. Now, in the case of the ODD/OCD, that’s surely a bold move and seems ripe for a lawsuit.
To Warm Audio's credit their reproductions/replicas/clones are extraordinarily faithful to the originals, both in function and design. I bought a Centavo based on reviews of the sound, but have to admit that seeing it on the floor makes me feel rich. They're also priced to be affordable for regular folks, which just makes their value proposition even greater. Kudos to Warm Audio, and I can't wait to see what they decide to knock off next.
This happened to me one time before I had been in the guitar world long enough to really know anything. I had like just joined Gear Talk P&W and etc. and I was looking at everyone’s boards and I saw a lot of them had a Timmy. So I googled “Paul C Timmy” and I get results of the usual like $120+ or whatever it was at the time. And then I saw one for $50. I was either in high school or my first year of college. I was thinking man I really wish I could afford a Timmy, and then I see the one for $50 and I’m like finally! So I buy it, and I realized it was a semi-sketchy website, but I’m like okay whatever. I get it, and it looks just like the real thing, at least to me who was not extremely familiar. I put it on my board and I’m like wow this is great! And then a couple months later it breaks and I’m like wow that sucks. I didn’t realize until later that it was a fake from some Chinese seller. If I would’ve known, I almost definitely would’ve bought a real Timmy to replace it, but the fake one had given me the wrong idea about it, so I ended up with something else. This is when the trade dress thing has gone too far. If I didn’t have the option of the fake, I would’ve just saved up, got the real one, and probably would still have it today. (I ended up with the MXR version anyways but still)
I just received my Mutation Phasor II a day or two ago and WOW does it sound amazing! My only issue i have is the rate, 1-2 keeps it subtle but afterwards it goes too fast I believe if these pedals were made to pay homage to previous pedals and replicate schematics and sounds to dedicate itself to older models before it then it should be fine as they’re not technically plagiarizing other pedals (besides the OCD)
I got the FOXY TONE BOX and the CENTAVO and I luv them. JOSH WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD OF EXACT COPIES. Not modeling or sort of imitating etc. AND as all of you pedal gurus made prices skyrocketing this is the revenge of the affordable. If the dumblesquenpedal the mutron pedal the centaur pedal the ocd pedal are icons then with 1000 dollars one can have the pedal board of their dreams. Warm audio is a game changer
I love the Centavo! I got a $50 gift card from Guitar Center for Christmas, so the pedal cost me under $150. I can't swing $8K on a Klon Centaur right now. Since these pedals aren't in production anymore, it's great to have a close alternative that looks and sounds the part.
Obviously with microphones and studio gear more generally there won’t be as much of a pushback on cloning because guitarists are… special people. This dynamic that JHS points out is really the difference between studios having to be more “proper businesses” then the guitarists who get to be more of the stereotypical band types.
I wanted a Klon. But I won’t sell one of my kids to get an original one (yet). The Centavo looks like a Klon, sounds like a Klon, has the Jeff Beck mod. And it is affordable. Happy days👍👍👍
Back in days of yore when the internet was still in its infancy and file sharing was all the rage I decided to start building pedals. I already had a background in electronics so I went in search of schematics. Over a period of six months I had found the schematics for just about every pedal there was out there (this was before the boutique market kicked off). On top of well known pedals I also came across those old school underground books (typed on a typewriter with hand drawn schematics) that were bursting with home recipes, creating weird and wonderful effects you’ve never heard of. I still have them on hard drive somewhere. A cornucopia of sonic wizardry.
There's a similar debate in the synth world when talking about Behringer. Behringer started making synths that are either out of production or super expensive, but it's kind of extended to modern affordable synths like some of the lower end Moog stuff
The subtext is Josh cares about it. Even though if youre not a basic consumer and arent into the topology, you might not understand because majority of the pedals are 100% copies using all the strategies of the business. But this has proved my point along the way is he a marketing guy above all. He has found a way to captivate folks, love that in a way too, obviously we want to connect to a brand anyway we can but id say that Warm Audio is only being more transparent, nobody anywhere will ever confuse one for the original.....
I love what what Warm Audio is doing. Especially when it comes to the unicorn massively inflated priced pedals like the Klon. If someone doesn’t like it, don’t buy it. Seems easy enough.
Really thoughtful discussion. I think the main thing is that no one is going to buy one of these Warm clones and be fooled into thinking it was an original.
Warm's stuff is great. I don't have any of their pedals, but I do have their WA273-EQ preamp (which is a 1073 copy) and their Bus-Comp (which is a copy of the SSL) and I think they're fantastic.
I've never tried their guitar pedal line but the online demos I've heard of the ODD don't sound like my OCD. But I have used their studio kit and meh...Godd for home recordists but there are plugins that do a far better job than their Pultec effort, which isn't even close and the one we had was rot with QC issues...Way too many far superior options (especially for their Neve circuit) to waste time and money on this stuff.
Okay so I cam back to listen to this... it's still amazing. BUT, I realized that I the first time I heard I forgot that I was on 1.5x speed. 😆 I recommend you try it👍
Great episode Josh! You covered the trade dress aspect, and the similarity of the electronic circuit, but one thing you didn't address fully is where the products are made. I am pretty certain that the WA pedals have to be made in China. Demonfx and LYR pedals are made in China, so are Warm Audio pedals I'm assuming by the price point. Warm Audio is better at making the product look good. They really care about nailing the design asthetics. I personally am particularly proud of fabricating the electronics and the metalworks in my factory and giving people careers that live in my community. I don't care about Demonfx's many copies of my pedals, because they don't look very good and their customers are not my customers (good for those customer too, I hope they have fun making music with a sound effect I inspired), and lastly, they most certainly don't sound as good as my creations. I love most copies of my work or ideas. Many people find that odd, I like it when I see my ideas in the wild, makes me feel good, I must be on the right track. There's a Kelly Kate Anna copy of the Keeley Katana that I just Love!!! I would go so far as to say his build quality is better than some of the ones I made. His pedal is gorgeous inside and out. The Katana is a unique, albeit simple, circuit that I thought about, reasoned about, toyed with the filtering and gain for 2 months or so, but spent about 2 hours on the graphics, tops! :-) I'm a little more sensitive to copying the exact circuit, I like to mod things. That's because I'm an electrical engineer. That's where my focus is. I see a pedal as, "what sound effect does it produce and by what means electronically". I have a bad problem of considering the trade dress, or looks, last. I've learned a lot from Josh Scott over the years, and one thing that I've re-learned from him is that people buy pedals in particular, with their eyes, before their ears have even heard it. Just like WA was saying, he plays his amazing Nash guitars with his eyes as well as his hands. He's inspired continuously by the looks of the guitar. Wurdz are Hard & Better Looking is Better Sounding.
Did Fulltone go too far copying the Tube Screamer? No? Warm Audio didn't go too far either. Besides, the Fulltone guy is a jerk, so whatever. As far as their "Klone" goes, somebody needs to give the finger to the whole $600 phase shifter and the $10,000 boost/overdrive idea. Although it's probably not their intention. If people need to charge that much for those pedals and the companies aren't going to make them anymore, I see no problem.
I was so excited to get a jet phaser, any possible ethical issues never crossed my mind. Always wanted an ocd, pedal, tried to by as the last, then the price on used went beyond what I was willing to pay. My point is the demand is there, and loving these pedals makes it hard to say no, especially when everyone makes similar pedals. Never stopped my from buying a Wampler or JHS pedal I want. Thanks for blowing my mind, I like to feel I have some integrity! 😂
We love you too! Appreciate the support! We run a tight ship over here. We try hard to keep our team small and our margins even smaller. There’s definitely no cash grabbing over here. Prices would need to be a lottt higher! Our goal is to spread great gear to as many musicians as possible! ❤😊
If the pedal is slightly different and it’s not made anymore then I think that’s fair enough. I’d say that the JHS overdrive preamp is in the same category as all of these. I think the ODD is more different to the OCD compared to the other pedals though so surprised this wasn’t mentioned before. I’d be more worried about the counterfeit products that are identical like those king of tones where you’re getting something that is too much of a copy
I agree there's a double standard. The entire industry is built on companies cloning or slightly altering each other's work. The great majority of companies get a pass but then people single out Warm Audio or JHS for doing what the whole industry has done for 40 years
False equivalency. The “entire industry” is not stealing trade dress, breaking the law, & reproducing part for part & design element for design element ripoffs, of in production US made pedals, in China.
@@tacdoc8736 the Tube Screamer is a slightly modified Boss SD-1. And how many Tube Screamer clones are in green boxes? How many op amp distortions are just slightly different from a RAT (or not different at all)? It sounds like your awareness of the industry's history (and present) is limited
I don't care how it looks, i care how it sounds. If some company resurects some pedal thats no longer in production, it will be welcome. About the look of this clones, i agree with what Warm's owner says. Great episode!!
As long as those pedals have been discontinued / are no more produced, I think it is fair. It is a kind of second life for those iconic products and allows many more people to enjoy those effects close to their original form. There are so many clones that are not explicitly mentionning their 'source' of inspiration. This series is so close to the original that it is nearly an hommage to the original!!
I agree with this take. The only pedal in the WA lineup here I'd say is controversial is the Warm Drive since Lovepedal is still actively making pedals, like the Zen Drive. Fulltone was out of business when the ODD dropped, but now is back, so I guess they may want to reconsider that one as well.
I think this the gentleman’s agreement amongst amongst ethical pedal builders.
It’s one thing if a company that went under long ago had circuit designs that are no longer available are copied, even if there’s no modern updates (100% model remake). But most builders will want to make a few tweaks, and it’s up to the consumer to decide if they’re cool with that (I’d trust Josh since I know how he’s updated a classic circuit, there’s going to be a sound reason)
It’s another thing if a company that typically just copies a circuit to put it in a cheap plastic housing using inferior components is just known for being a company that provides rock-bottom priced clones.
Often their only recourse for excusing it in court is that they’re copying the second or third mark of a circuit design that the original company is offering in a mark 7 or 8 version.
For me, the latter alludes to Josh’s feelings about the company cloning to even use trade dress. You don’t have to use the artwork of the cloned pedal. The rule of thumb seems to be to name the pedal something kitschy that alludes to the original pedal’s name or what its circuit is infamous for.
Yeah, the average 1-guitar owner ISO a cheap copy of the pedal he played over a buddy’s place would pick up a clone like those being discussed in the video. But for those of trying to live the dream, ethics matter.
Clarification. Lovepedal no longer makes Zendrive pedals. The one sold by Reverb are in mint condition; not brand new. @@richnewman
I love that ODD is Oppositional Defiant Disorder.
Abominable has one too called the Oppressive Cult Destroyer j which is a great name
Love is in the air! ❤
I personally have Overdrive Deficiency Disorder. My pedal board is deficient in the area of a hard clip overdrive. So I need this.
It’s a cute name for a pedal, it is NOT a cute diagnosis…
🎉
When I worked at Fulltone in Culer City, CA. He had a huge sign over the employee water fountain that said "Fake workmans comp claims are illegal" Really boosted morale, hahahaha. True story.
Sounds like a trash company lol
Over the past two years I started to build up my home studio. In my search for the best studio gear at the best price, I came across Warm Audio. I decided to give them a try with one of their mic pre’s and mics. I loved the tone & sound I was getting from those 2 pieces of gear, I ended up buying more of their gear. Now almost all of my outboard gear and mics are all Warm. I had also moved to the Austin area about a year and a half ago, for work. I realized 6 months ago, their head quarters is like 10 minutes from my house. So, I reached out, and they were super friendly and invited me to come tour their world class recording studio. I ended up attending the “Produce Like a Pro” 3 day class that Warren & Joe Carrell held at Warm studios, last month. Such an awesome experience. I can say first hand, getting to hang around their headquarters, meeting a good number of their employees, seeing how the owners Bryce & Aubrey interact & treat people. They are an awesome company, with awesome gear! They have a life long customer in me. (I also own 5 of their pedals, & all of them are awesome!!!)
Best comment award goes to my guy @jasoncalderon5415 !! We loved having you and WOW I didn’t know you had 5 PEDALS! I feel like it should be a buy 5 get one 75% off or something. 😜😘
When Fuller told the world that he was stopping production and closing shop. He opened the door... Warm Audio just walked through it. 😉
absolutely. also he was a bit pissy in the chat near the end of the stream
yeah, but he got run out of town over politics...not over gear.
I think he did say he’d protect his copyrights, and he is (as I expected) restarting production in Nashville. TBH Fulltone has a strong enough following that the ODD isn't worth the legal fees to stop.
Yea, Fulltone suddenly just stopped and used prices of Fulltone pedals went up above retail price so i was kinda glad when i first saw the Warm ODD because now there was an new quality product avaliable as an alternative to overpriced used originals. I didn't buy because i still have a functioning OCD but i thought the market is healthier with a product like that. Mike Fuller said nothing about picking up production somewhere else, i mean this would have been big news for me.
@@patricklemire9278- God keeps pointing out reasons to move to Nashville. Here's another one!
I love this, when pedals start to reach the $7500 dollar mark ( Klon ) without reissues from the original maker, something needs to be done. Keep it up Warm Audio, I love my Centavo!!!
Warm audio does a fantastic job cloning so you don't have to take your $1000 pedals to play at a dive bar. 🤟
First: GREAT episode JHS Team...I truly enjoy the content you provide, and your production value is off the charts! Second: I'm all for the clones, in fact I think it's a nice 'nod' to the person/people/manufacturer who made the original. I was fortunate enough to meet Daniel Scheinert [one of "The 'Daniel's" that directed the films 'Everything, Everywhere, All at Once', 'Swiss Army Man', & 'Turn Down for What' music video, etc..etc...] in Kansas City, MO in May 2023 for Destination Imagination [he was a former D.I. participant in the early 2000's]. He spoke to all of us on a panel discussion and said [and I'm paraphrasing] 'Borrow and steal from the creative person or people that you admire...you'll end up making YOUR OWN version of what you are seeking to make.' Lennon & McCartney 'borrowed' from the Everly Brothers, Little Richard, The Beach Boys, etc. Keith Richards has literally said "I've stolen all of my guitar licks from Chuck Berry". Chuck Berry stole all of his guitar licks from his piano player Johnnie Johnson [watch the film 'Hail, Hail, Rock and Roll']? So kudos to all you pedal makers, I thoroughly enjoy seeing and hearing what you come up with. Cheers! - Robbie T.
Isn’t the trade dress thing a silly argument when everyone has guitars that look exactly like fender or Gibson designs.
Agreed, but I don't like that, either. Though, I suppose it does elevate the Strat or Les Paul to that of violin or trumpet status, where, the design IS the instrument, one in the same.
Gibson & Fender have taken multiple companies to court & won over specific design elements of their guitars.
@@mykhedelic6471 yeah, but the "headstock law" was established after the Ibanez lawsuits...the law says bodies can be copied.
@@bryanherward4679 It's all lame. I love Strats and I love Jimi but I don't want to build Strats and I don't want to fake that I'm Jimi. Influence and homage are one thing, just making Strats "the way you've always wanted" or totally mimicking Jimi's voice, playing, clothes, hair, y'know, but with more polished recordings or whatever--- why? I think Suhr make the finest Strats, for example, but what the hell for? Fender also makes a great Strat, and it's theirs. Me, personally, I'd just want to do or make something else. I've never gotten the whole gussied up copy market, finances aside. But still, my comment up top. The Strat or LP or Tele, SG etc. they've almost become The Instrument proper the way the violin or trumpet have. Surely there are variations between trumpet makers or violin crafters but, really, the design is settled and the design is the instrument. They've gone through minuscule changes over their long years. Sure, a Yamaha may look like a Stradivarius but there is a performance difference. I suppose that is an argument for a Suhr Strat. I just wouldn't want to make them, I'd rather make something... else. In terms of this pedal argument, if Fender wasn't making Strats anymore then have at it, but they are, in varying levels of price and build quality, so, for me, I'd do something else. But Warm Audio, make me a Foxx octave fuzz, because that's an instrument I still want to interact with and it's lost to history (hello, LM-1). Anyway, it's all a little gray.
@@mykhedelic6471 Really only meant to clarify the issue. I love Strats...but even those could be argued copied Bigsby's body...Leo just got it right the first time (minus the 3 way switch)...add the Tele and the P Bass...Don't have a problem with clones...they're old designs...Yeah Fender is still around, but Leo designed it...He used the same designs at Music Man and G&L.
I don't really have a problem with Warm Audio..AS someone with over 100 pedals, I understand that cloning and circuit development is part of all of it. I try to minimize the number of Chinese clone pedals I have unless they have extra features. For example, the Mooer Elec Lady is a great Mistress clone and offers a micro case and an added mode switch. Since it's a vintage circuit, I'm not really torn about it even though EHX is still around...I'd own the EHX version if they made one.
But, the OCD is personal. I hated the way the woke mob went after Mike Fuller and no one came to his defense. Pretty sure JHS even left him out of the Pedal Movie...I mean how can you tell the history of pedal s without Fulltone. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Don't want to see a rip off clone when the man was forced out of business just a couple years ago.
You are so right about guitar pedals - I have never seen any discussion that they were "ripping off Neumann"
The warm audio stuff seems to be a proper homage to the originals, and I definitely like that.
If someone ripped off the Morning Glory you could send them a C&D letter headed, 'What's the story?'
I actually think a lot of these clones are neat and sometimes cooler than the original versions in my head.
Not to mention often much more affordable.
To add to this discussion, a bunch of the warm audio pedals especially the Jet Phaser is reselling on Reverb higher than the original price. What Warm Audio has done is very similar to what Dunlop did with the original Dallas-Arbiter fuzz faces, where those 90's fuzz reissues are re-selling pretty high as well. They found a really cool niche, and because they are being so faithful to the original and not just trying to be a wholesale knockoff, I don't have any issues. (not that anyone asked me, or cares about my opinion).
I care about your opinion!!❤😊 @gameoftones77
I love all the warm audio stuff. The klon clones are amazing, and because they look like the real thing it makes it even better. It makes things that should be affordable anyway available to normal people.
ABSOLUTELY
I love that there are amazing new and old pedals from boutique builders, but that comes at a cost. I also love that for those of us who either have limited access to boutique pedals, or can't afford them, there are more affordable clones.
I just got the Mutation Phasor. Next I'm going to get the Warm Drive. Love this company. Much appreciate all that you do. Peace
It boils down to this for me: things that lead to more human beings discovering and exploring and playing music, (especially with other human beings!) is ultimately a net plus. Music and guitar have been the throughline of my life for 46 years and counting, and I KNOW I’m not the only one here who can say that music saved my life.
Happy picking, pickers.
Amen, friend. ❤
I was yelling at the TV during the Lucky Cat discussion. You guys went waaaay off topic with the feelings thing, but it’s a great question. If Warm cloned a JHS pedal no longer in production, and they sourced quality original parts and executed it extremely well, and even nailed Josh’s standards for trade dress and tone, then I’d be good with it. Because they executed well on something that was in demand and Josh has chosen to no longer make. Even if it were my own product I’d feel the same, because I chose to move on to other things.
Joshua, you totally nailed it with the warm glory!
I went into a guitar shop to buy a Charlie Brown a year ago and saw the Foxy Tone Box, immediately had to try it and then when I heard the price I COULD NOT believe it. I never EVER thought I could get a Foxx tone machine in my life. It also paired nice with the CB so I left with both! This is 100% true
This happened to me 2 days ago! Well, more like I went in to try the Legends of Fuzz, which they didn't have, but I saw this fuzzy orange box in the case and had to try it. After spending 3 hours in the shop, it beat out 5 other fuzz boxes they had. This thing is amazing.
I think its cool that they make it actually look like the pedals thy are cloning. Help a pedal noob like myself know what to compare them to
I think what they’re doing is great. people want products they can actually get/buy, so if they make high quality clones that do exactly what you want them to do, by all means, make them and buy them.
What Warm is doing is great! I think it also pushes companies of the original to maintain a higher standard if it’s still in production.
Agree! Competition brings on progress
So very true!
have the warmdrive, centavo and now also the odd ...I really like the pedals a lot! well done warm audio 😊
I think warm audio and companies like them were the enema the industry needed. Its outrageous that such cool sounding gear is almost always unobtainium for non millionaires. These bits of gear sound as good if not better than the original gear they pay homage to. Due to better component tolorances & no component value drift over the decades of time the originals may suffer from. More power & sales to em. 👍
Fulltone ( The original band) Warm Audio (Tribute Band) Poorly Made Clones (ok-ish small town bar band) Local cover band is great for a local night out drinking. They're weekend warriors that play for fun and want to make money to pay for their gear and a little extra spending money. Tribute band is great if you can't see the real thing. I can't go see The Doors, but I can go see The Back Doors and almost get the real experience. These players are serious musician's that want to make a living playing music and out of love for the original band. Imitation is the best form of flattery.
I really enjoyed the conversation. Great episode.
The line is Chibson. If someone clones a Big Muff and slaps the words "Big Muff" and "electro-harmonix" or "ehx" or even "elektro-harmoniks" on it, then they've crossed the line.
I love Chibson's Durst Burst tho
I like what Warm Audio is doing. Allowing me to buy a pedal, that I always wanted and recognize by sight but isn't exactly the original, but is new and at an affordable price.
I have the Foxy Tone Box, and it pairs extremely well with the EHX Metal Muff.
Thank you Warm Audio for allowing me to own a Klon clone, that looks and sounds exactly like or maybe even better than a original!!!
Clones are AWESOME! For example, I did a clone of a Tim Escobedo “push me-pull you” driven by Hemmo’s “Bazz Fuss.” I’m calling it “The Wizard of Green.” Because these are both well-known (and publicly available) DIY circuits I’m of course not going to claim design credit for myself (I didn’t even bother to alter the “gain” knob on the push me-pull you to do anything significant…I just gave it a nebulous name like “feelings” and left it in there…)
As a gear lover in a perpetual state of little to no gear money, I love what Warm Audio does, and with what little info I have (I don’t care to dig for it), I must assume that the original brands must not care, otherwise I don’t think WA would even get that far before a cease and desist.
I don’t believe in magical chips, but I do believe in a good recipe. That’s what Warm Audio delivers.
This has always been warm audios thing, they have started branching out into their own designs but their goal is to bring affordability to gear the bedroom musician might not be able to afford. I would suggest taking a look at the produce like a pro interview with their founder it's very insightful
I have to say I kind of admire Warm Audio. Their painstaking recreation of these pedals is impressive. I'm reminded of Tokai re-creating classic guitars back in the 70's. I see this as paying homage to the original creations.
Love it!! Not everyone can afford a Klone, not everyone can find a Zen Drive, and some of those pedals are not being made anymore. Love the fact that this make it “accessible “.
I'm grateful for warm audio producing products that are no longer manufactured and are expensive. I own several warm products and they are awesome, affordable and capture the feel of the original. Thanks Warm for bringing us the goods!
💪🏼
Very good clones for cheaper is always a good thing
ocd costs about the same
@@kimseniorb what’s the point then
In the 70’s and early 80’s I had an original Foxx Tone Machine. I don’t think I’m the only one that gets nostalgic for gear they had as a kid. For years I wanted another, and vintage units were ridiculously expensive $700-$800 for a beat up pedal. I’m very thankful to Warm Audio for making an aesthetically accurate replica without it being a rip off. I know in the early 2000’s someone was making complete rip offs and Steve Ridinger the original pedal maker was not happy about that. I bought Steve’s 3699 & love it but I still was nostalgic for the fuzzy pedal. Thanks Warm Audio
true reproductions should mimic the original exactly and I'm always up for preservation so having new options available while other are out of production gives the experience back to the masses. 100% support Warm audio (also own a foxy tone box)
I just got a Jet Phaser, Mutation, Odd box and Foxey Tone box in to the store I work at yesterday. They're pretty great sounding pedals across the board.
if it’s not available at retail price anymore than i think it’s okay, i hope they make a mini dejavibe :)))
One of my favorite episodes yet! really enjoyed the ethics discussion
WOW, at first glance, I thought that was a OCD LOL, but it's an ODD. Honestly, if the pedal sounds good and no copyright infringements and being broken, I think it's great. That being said, the ascetics and appearance of some pedals is more iconic than its actual sound it produces. e.g. One mighty not care of the ODD looks like an OCD or not, but one would probably get a thrill out of a KLON looking like a KLON. I own the warm audio version as well as a KTR, both are great. My preference on the entire KLON thing is the JRocket Audio Archer silver. I love that pedal.
Great discussion. I really enjoy the videos, guys, keep it up! :)
I would buy an ODD over OCD because it looks better :)
I wish warm audio all the success in the world
Warm Audio: Keep doing what you're doing and continue to keep the prices affordable! 😎👍
@valerifon1 Message received! Appreciate you!!❤
I love you guys
Thank you for content like this
I want a Warm Audio lucky cat now. 😂
As a consumer I say keep ‘em coming warm audio people want them they can’t get them you pick up the slack from companies that can’t or won’t keep up with! Thank you warm and thank you josh!
On the trade dress specifically, I feel like if I want a fox tone machine I don’t want to hunt through millions of pedals to find the right circuit. I’m not as educated as all of that I need a bit of help and that where I think what they’re doing is more helpful than hurtful.
I think one reason people have such stronger feelings over this issue regarding guitar pedals, but NOT studio gear, is because with studio gear it happened so much longer ago. Neumann mics, for example, was birthed out of the WWII split of Germany as a country (they were derived from Telefunken) and initially Neumann was basically creating the same models that they had made when they were Telefunken but just on opposite sides of the Berlin Wall. After the Cold War ended people rediscovered the similarities of these classic tube microphones. They had different names & model numbers but were so similar.
I also read an interview in TapeOp with the founder of Peluso microphones. He talked about starting his company with federal grant money under the Clinton administration during the big 90’s recession. He said he bought out of production classic microphones and reverse engineered them. Then put ads in music magazines to sell his creations.
But guitar pedals - particularly the movement toward boutique manufacturers - have essentially grown in a parallel timeline with technology such as social media. It was a key ingredient to the growth of the entire industry! Makers and builders connected directly with their users, just as this show has done. There is much more personal investment from followers/users than with pro audio. I mean, I knew who Rupert Neve was, but I don’t know any of the guys who designed API consoles or Neumann mics. But I know Josh from JHS and Joel from Chase Bliss.
Wry well put!!
I think it's fine. Good ideas are for sharing.
Im ok with it if the pedals are no longer being made or if the clone uses the topology but makes changes. Zendrives are still being made by Lovepedal. I just bought one.
It's great that Warm is making these pedals that not only look the part but sound the part. The bonus is they are available and affordable. Cherry on top is it helps limit the resellers trying to make a buck off of guitar players that don't collect & just want to make music.
I'm in the ethically conflicted camp. They definitely nailed the trade dress with what might be considered misleading accuracy. It would have been nice to see them try and put their own spin on it more like an Archer/Klon kind of thing, but I also understand the appeal of owning a replica. The Eames lounge chair comes to mind in the furniture industry. It's such a classic design and there are countless replicas and some are quite good for what they are. And the reality is many originals are simply unattainable for lots of people. Same goes for Behringer and the replica synths they're making these days. It serves a market and I think as long as their not trying pitch is as an original, and especially with out of production stuff, I think it's ok. I honestly think if someone really wants a Klon and can afford it they'll get it even with the plethora of close enough clones.
Isn’t the trade dress protected?
Yeah with limited releases, gear that's expensive enough to be out of reach of the hobbyist or working poor and/or out of production, I'm all for it. Clone that. People with the want and will, will buy the original. Good luck to them
@@ANWEsuigeneris It can be, but I'm not sure if any of these would qualify since it seems they're all out of production products. And they'd need to prove that a normal buyer would be confused thinking they're buying the other product. As Josh mentioned though they'd probably get a well deserved C&D letter though from any active company.
Let's be honest, not a single person is going to be "confused" or misled here.
Josh you are totally right about the just guitar pedal land thing, and that is really interesting and crazy, cuz when I think about it, Pul-tec are still making pul-tecs, warm are doing those, Neumann is still making the 67-87s and so forth, but ive never heard anyone say that those are an issues, cuz people who aren't rich studio owners, and just home recordists, want to be able to use and own that gear, and like me want it to look and feel the same too! as much as sound the same. I freaking love it lol!
I need one of these in my life
It’s like what supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl do all the time with food and drink.
U would never buy an ocd pedal because ocd impacts me personally a lot and I don't think it's a joke to be taken lightly. I don't want to think about it when I look at a pedal. So this is right up my alley!
But isn’t ODD similarly something that shouldn’t be taken lightly? I teach a number of kids with oppositional defiance disorder, and it’s a pretty serious thing….
@@hughespODD stands for OVER-DRIVE DISORDER. 🎉
@@aubyoung1218 I mean, I guess it could, but ODD as oppositional defiance disorder is a real thing listed in the DSM-5.
@@hughesp You are surely correct on that! Just not in relation to this pedal is all. 😉
best YT show! thank you JHS crew, we love you all. Peace and Love.
Thanks for another great live episode! Just curious if anyone else is noticing the volume issue. It seems significantly lower than other videos on RUclips and advertisements (while watching the playback). I’ve noticed this with other JHS live videos but forgot to mention it. I’m guessing it’s the live stream volume or compression settings because it doesn’t happen when you post pre-recorded videos.
I did wonder why I had to turn my TV volume up to 25, when typically I'd only have it on 7 or 8, so you're not alone.
I started building to get hold of things I could not find or afford.....if I could have found a fuzzface enclosure or a colorsound enclosure I would have done so and got them as close as possible to the originals. There are arguments in Studio world about whether "in the box" DAW effects need an attractive "analogue" interface or the most basic GUI...they do the same thing....at my age I go the Analogue route...I have Reaper skinned as a Midas XL3 and Revox Transport and my vsts are pretty much emulations of real rack gear. It makes me feel comfortable and immersed having grown up with "the real thing". Instead of building one, I recently bought a Foxx clone...the green one....and I looked into flocking it. I guess I'm O.K. with this thing Warm are doing...they look the part and are affordable and quality. They are not completely duplicating and attempting to pass off counterfeits. I think it gets under pedal worlds skin because every body that ever built a kit thinks they should be able to make a living out of it.
I've noticed that there is a lot of mystique around guitar pedals and guitars themselves. As a woodworker and someone who has made a lot of electronic devices, I don't see a lot of difference between two guitars or pedals. However, a lot of people may not, and some of the emotional response from people may be around the surface level copying, rather than anything logical about the company or there intentions. I have purchased several Warm Audio products and I like the products and the company. I think that as long as they aren't representing themselves as the actual competing product and they are open about their intentions (which I think they are) they're okay.
Love my Warm 47jr Fet and 1176 comp!!
JHS made a pedal that sounds just like my Civil War era Big Muff, and I am thankful for it. However, the 2 units don’t look anything alike, and the JHS can be powered off a power brick, has better switching, etc. Cloning something long out of production down to the looks seems kinda quirky and fun enough, though better I’m sure a better package could be made. Now, in the case of the ODD/OCD, that’s surely a bold move and seems ripe for a lawsuit.
It's a good point that sometimes the new copy can be made better with modern components and such.
To Warm Audio's credit their reproductions/replicas/clones are extraordinarily faithful to the originals, both in function and design. I bought a Centavo based on reviews of the sound, but have to admit that seeing it on the floor makes me feel rich. They're also priced to be affordable for regular folks, which just makes their value proposition even greater. Kudos to Warm Audio, and I can't wait to see what they decide to knock off next.
This happened to me one time before I had been in the guitar world long enough to really know anything. I had like just joined Gear Talk P&W and etc. and I was looking at everyone’s boards and I saw a lot of them had a Timmy. So I googled “Paul C Timmy” and I get results of the usual like $120+ or whatever it was at the time. And then I saw one for $50. I was either in high school or my first year of college. I was thinking man I really wish I could afford a Timmy, and then I see the one for $50 and I’m like finally! So I buy it, and I realized it was a semi-sketchy website, but I’m like okay whatever. I get it, and it looks just like the real thing, at least to me who was not extremely familiar. I put it on my board and I’m like wow this is great! And then a couple months later it breaks and I’m like wow that sucks. I didn’t realize until later that it was a fake from some Chinese seller. If I would’ve known, I almost definitely would’ve bought a real Timmy to replace it, but the fake one had given me the wrong idea about it, so I ended up with something else. This is when the trade dress thing has gone too far. If I didn’t have the option of the fake, I would’ve just saved up, got the real one, and probably would still have it today. (I ended up with the MXR version anyways but still)
Personally, I love my King of Timbre pedal from Analogous Man. Got it for a steal on EBay! Wait a minute…
😂👍
I just received my Mutation Phasor II a day or two ago and WOW does it sound amazing! My only issue i have is the rate, 1-2 keeps it subtle but afterwards it goes too fast
I believe if these pedals were made to pay homage to previous pedals and replicate schematics and sounds to dedicate itself to older models before it then it should be fine as they’re not technically plagiarizing other pedals (besides the OCD)
I got the FOXY TONE BOX and the CENTAVO and I luv them. JOSH WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD OF EXACT COPIES. Not modeling or sort of imitating etc. AND as all of you pedal gurus made prices skyrocketing this is the revenge of the affordable. If the dumblesquenpedal the mutron pedal the centaur pedal the ocd pedal are icons then with 1000 dollars one can have the pedal board of their dreams. Warm audio is a game changer
🎉 I like you.
I love the Centavo! I got a $50 gift card from Guitar Center for Christmas, so the pedal cost me under $150. I can't swing $8K on a Klon Centaur right now. Since these pedals aren't in production anymore, it's great to have a close alternative that looks and sounds the part.
THEY HAVEN'T GONE FAR ENOUGH
Obviously with microphones and studio gear more generally there won’t be as much of a pushback on cloning because guitarists are… special people. This dynamic that JHS points out is really the difference between studios having to be more “proper businesses” then the guitarists who get to be more of the stereotypical band types.
I think there are also a lot more guitarists than there are pro studio people.
The JetPhaser... with Boss RE-20 is like Hendrix jamming with Hawkwind " Hey Joe, I got a Silver Machine" 😅
I wanted a Klon. But I won’t sell one of my kids to get an original one (yet). The Centavo looks like a Klon, sounds like a Klon, has the Jeff Beck mod. And it is affordable. Happy days👍👍👍
Back in days of yore when the internet was still in its infancy and file sharing was all the rage I decided to start building pedals. I already had a background in electronics so I went in search of schematics. Over a period of six months I had found the schematics for just about every pedal there was out there (this was before the boutique market kicked off). On top of well known pedals I also came across those old school underground books (typed on a typewriter with hand drawn schematics) that were bursting with home recipes, creating weird and wonderful effects you’ve never heard of. I still have them on hard drive somewhere. A cornucopia of sonic wizardry.
There's a similar debate in the synth world when talking about Behringer. Behringer started making synths that are either out of production or super expensive, but it's kind of extended to modern affordable synths like some of the lower end Moog stuff
The subtext is Josh cares about it. Even though if youre not a basic consumer and arent into the topology, you might not understand because majority of the pedals are 100% copies using all the strategies of the business. But this has proved my point along the way is he a marketing guy above all. He has found a way to captivate folks, love that in a way too, obviously we want to connect to a brand anyway we can but id say that Warm Audio is only being more transparent, nobody anywhere will ever confuse one for the original.....
I love what what Warm Audio is doing. Especially when it comes to the unicorn massively inflated priced pedals like the Klon. If someone doesn’t like it, don’t buy it. Seems easy enough.
Really thoughtful discussion. I think the main thing is that no one is going to buy one of these Warm clones and be fooled into thinking it was an original.
Warm's stuff is great. I don't have any of their pedals, but I do have their WA273-EQ preamp (which is a 1073 copy) and their Bus-Comp (which is a copy of the SSL) and I think they're fantastic.
I've never tried their guitar pedal line but the online demos I've heard of the ODD don't sound like my OCD. But I have used their studio kit and meh...Godd for home recordists but there are plugins that do a far better job than their Pultec effort, which isn't even close and the one we had was rot with QC issues...Way too many far superior options (especially for their Neve circuit) to waste time and money on this stuff.
36:20 This jam is one of the most badass jams I've heard Josh do. It's incredible!
Okay so I cam back to listen to this... it's still amazing. BUT, I realized that I the first time I heard I forgot that I was on 1.5x speed. 😆 I recommend you try it👍
Great episode Josh! You covered the trade dress aspect, and the similarity of the electronic circuit, but one thing you didn't address fully is where the products are made. I am pretty certain that the WA pedals have to be made in China. Demonfx and LYR pedals are made in China, so are Warm Audio pedals I'm assuming by the price point. Warm Audio is better at making the product look good. They really care about nailing the design asthetics. I personally am particularly proud of fabricating the electronics and the metalworks in my factory and giving people careers that live in my community. I don't care about Demonfx's many copies of my pedals, because they don't look very good and their customers are not my customers (good for those customer too, I hope they have fun making music with a sound effect I inspired), and lastly, they most certainly don't sound as good as my creations. I love most copies of my work or ideas. Many people find that odd, I like it when I see my ideas in the wild, makes me feel good, I must be on the right track. There's a Kelly Kate Anna copy of the Keeley Katana that I just Love!!! I would go so far as to say his build quality is better than some of the ones I made. His pedal is gorgeous inside and out. The Katana is a unique, albeit simple, circuit that I thought about, reasoned about, toyed with the filtering and gain for 2 months or so, but spent about 2 hours on the graphics, tops! :-) I'm a little more sensitive to copying the exact circuit, I like to mod things. That's because I'm an electrical engineer. That's where my focus is. I see a pedal as, "what sound effect does it produce and by what means electronically". I have a bad problem of considering the trade dress, or looks, last. I've learned a lot from Josh Scott over the years, and one thing that I've re-learned from him is that people buy pedals in particular, with their eyes, before their ears have even heard it. Just like WA was saying, he plays his amazing Nash guitars with his eyes as well as his hands. He's inspired continuously by the looks of the guitar. Wurdz are Hard & Better Looking is Better Sounding.
Great input Robert!
@@jhspedals Thank You - JHS Pedals, for doing what you do!!!
@@jhspedals I'm a big fan of Josh's playing, his improv is melodic and fun, Fire!!!!
very unique topic of discussion
Did Fulltone go too far copying the Tube Screamer? No? Warm Audio didn't go too far either. Besides, the Fulltone guy is a jerk, so whatever. As far as their "Klone" goes, somebody needs to give the finger to the whole $600 phase shifter and the $10,000 boost/overdrive idea. Although it's probably not their intention. If people need to charge that much for those pedals and the companies aren't going to make them anymore, I see no problem.
I have the Foxy Tone box and I love it
Now I just want to see a new big-box Small Stone, whether Warm Audio or EHX do it
I was so excited to get a jet phaser, any possible ethical issues never crossed my mind. Always wanted an ocd, pedal, tried to by as the last, then the price on used went beyond what I was willing to pay. My point is the demand is there, and loving these pedals makes it hard to say no, especially when everyone makes similar pedals. Never stopped my from buying a Wampler or JHS pedal I want. Thanks for blowing my mind, I like to feel I have some integrity! 😂
I don't know why, but I love them. Probably because they feel more like a love letter than a cash grab.
We love you too! Appreciate the support! We run a tight ship over here. We try hard to keep our team small and our margins even smaller. There’s definitely no cash grabbing over here. Prices would need to be a lottt higher! Our goal is to spread great gear to as many musicians as possible! ❤😊
Warm Glory!!Good work Joshua. Ace episode.
If the pedal is slightly different and it’s not made anymore then I think that’s fair enough.
I’d say that the JHS overdrive preamp is in the same category as all of these.
I think the ODD is more different to the OCD compared to the other pedals though so surprised this wasn’t mentioned before.
I’d be more worried about the counterfeit products that are identical like those king of tones where you’re getting something that is too much of a copy
I want that Centavo. It’s the closest Klon clone I’ve heard yet. And there really is something cool about that stupid pedal (Klon Centaur).
I agree there's a double standard. The entire industry is built on companies cloning or slightly altering each other's work. The great majority of companies get a pass but then people single out Warm Audio or JHS for doing what the whole industry has done for 40 years
False equivalency. The “entire industry” is not stealing trade dress, breaking the law, & reproducing part for part & design element for design element ripoffs, of in production US made pedals, in China.
@@tacdoc8736 the Tube Screamer is a slightly modified Boss SD-1. And how many Tube Screamer clones are in green boxes? How many op amp distortions are just slightly different from a RAT (or not different at all)? It sounds like your awareness of the industry's history (and present) is limited
I love warm audio. Peace Love and Anarchy.
I showed this pedal to someone who built 1000s of OCD pedals and they said the new ODD box was 100% spot on. Even down to the tiniest details
I don't care how it looks, i care how it sounds. If some company resurects some pedal thats no longer in production, it will be welcome.
About the look of this clones, i agree with what Warm's owner says.
Great episode!!
Every live I just miss Addison.
Thank you for great ideas which you came with and great ideas of others which can appeared here.