Absolutely fantastic. I’m 250#, and my three year old Race Face free hub just failed. I wasn’t sure what to do for replacement, but now the answer is clear: DT. I’m sold on the 360 degree engagement, and it looks like if anything does goes wrong after another three years, it will be easy to fix.
Sound would be the final thing of consequence to many riders. I have the i9s and my dad has the DTs. My bike is probably 3 times louder if not more, and honestly. I’m extremely proud of my angry bee sounding wheels.
I think it would have been worth adding a CK hub in your review as well because of the technical differences between all 3 hubs. For me, I'm a DT Swiss guy - 5 sets of wheels with DT Swiss hubs (2 with upgrades)!
Slik Graphics allows you numerous color choices to the decal on the DT Swiss hubs or most wheels & hubs for that matter. In this case a solution to the statement that “DT Swiss 240 hubs only come in black”. Now you can get those great DT’s giving up anything. The Swiss historically have been known make some of the best wrist watches known to man. They seem to have an affinity for small mechanisms and how each moving part works in harmony with each other. I think it’s obviously clear the Swiss can tackle building efficient and tight bicycle wheel hubs. DT Swiss hubs for me please because it a “function first approach”.
Ratchet over pawls any day of the year - coming from a professional wheel builder who knows how i9 Torch pawls (and any other pawl freehub for that matter) tend to fail when they fail... You just cant break the simple system DT Swiss and other companies employ, whereas pawls wear out - the heavier you are and the more miles you put in, perhaps alot of uphill too, the faster they will bow out. Aside from that, weight on the hub is vastly overrated. That is not an argument for or against either of these. You want to save weight on the rim and tyre if you want to feel the difference when riding. That being said, I'd toss Chris King ISO Hubs in the mix of the price range we're talking about, for they look prettier than DT Swiss are in various anodized colors available (while DT Swiss hubs are painted), are just as reliable as DT Swiss and give you the bonus of prolonging bearing life substantually by being able to adjust the play and pre-load. 72 points of simultaneous engagement is enough and will outlast any pawl hub by years without worries.
To me it sounds like the very best design was taken away (patent) by DT swiss and out of need arose the I9 design. The DT design adheres to the KISS principle and less moving parts. The other HUB manufacturer's have to adopt to fancy colors to attract buyers it seems like.
@@LightBicycleOfficial yeah, but these should be applied before building up the wheels. If you don't offer this as some kind of an upgrade, then is it maybe possible to send in some hubs?
What's the best mtb hubs .i live in Costa Rica , where it's either hot and dusty Dec- April or rainy season mud and rocks May- Nov. The environment is a totall killer here. You gotta clean bike after every ride. Average ride 60+ kilometers and 2- 5000 climbing every ride . gotta love it and I live on the ocean. Surf sometimes . Was scheduled to do La Ruta Conquistador in Nov, cancelled due to virus . look that race up !!
If anyone is wondering the best hubs you can buy are the Onyx hubs end of story. They use the same sprague clutch mechanism as a helicopter uses in it’s drive for the rotor blades. DT Swiss for the simplicity and reliability otherwise...
Hi Frolin, DT180 hubs are high quality and have a very low weight. I9 Torch and DT240s also have great value. See our full hub list here: www.lightbicycle.com/newsletter/Light-Bicycle-Bike-Hub-List-of-2020.html
DT any time. its simple (best technology mast be simple) , drag free, not too noisy, very light simple thread free maintenance.... the only down side is price but if you calculate the life span you get out of it... it will give good reason to used it. respect I9 but it falls in any category against DT including price.
No mention about rolling resistance. Dt 240 and 350s have quite a bit of rolling resistance, and I wonder how industry nine compares. I would like to eventually replace my hubs on my light touring commuter bike, but so far nothing beats the low rolling resistance of my Campagnolo hubs.
I9 for fatbike and DT for normal bike. Why - here is why. Fatbike needs to be LOUD!! People just don't hear me coming but with the I9 rear hub no problems. DT is too quiet and people don't hear me coming. In the snowy trail ride it really matters. People are standing there on my way with their dogs if I ride my bontrager hubs because they just don't hear. With I9 hubs they hear me coming and give me some room to pass. Sometimes I adjust my front brakes so that it will screeeeeeeeaaaaaaam! Helps a lot ;-) I think the I9 is showing already some sings of unreliability issues like random banging - usually after freewheeling for sure. Never happened in the DT hub though. DT I can trust :-)
I had Onyx on my last bike, I'm going DT 240 this time. DT are simple, work and optimised to be balanced in all categories, Onyx are heavily biased towards fast engagement and silence but it comes at a cost, weight. My rear wheel with Onyx felt like a brick, weight isn't only bad for gyroscopic effect or acceleration but it also impact the unsprung mass of the rear suspension a lot. In addition super high engagement hubs cause more pedal kickback further hindering suspension performance as when the chain tensions under compression there is no slack in the drivetrain. Not to mention the anodising on my Onyx was piss poor, I bought orange and exepected something like Hope orange, instead they looked like a dull washed out faded mango colour. Finally they developed notchiness and missed engagement sometimes after a while and also the grease I used somehow seized my axle in the Onyx hub and I had to tap it out hard to get it out. But the main thing is the weight, 475 grams for a hub vs the DT 240 EXP at 200 grams and also Onyx don't offer straight pull and they are twice the price. Yea the instant engagement is cool when you go do the road for the first time and you are like wow thats crazy and the silence is cool. But after I while you realise that they weigh a ton and you can feel it riding and picking up the bike back wheel off the ground, you get bored of the silence and want a cool sounding hub and this combined with the durability issues, ridiculous cost, crappy anodising and too fast engagement making suspension action under braking worse means I will never touch them again. There is a lot of cons for that instant engagement and silence.
dt swiss is better .if you look about the ratchet system and comparing to i9 pawls. in the end of the day pawls house of i9 they loosing not fitted anymore or worse case is crack around the house pawls. but dt swiss ratchet teeth are really easy to replace.and maintenance.
I've had freehub shell failures twice with I9 and had little to no product support from them. They may have high engagement but I've had to service their rear hub non stop since owning. Their pawl design isn't as robust and is prone to disengagement compared to dt swiss. The bottom... if you want fancy colors and enjoy servicing your bike excessively then go with I9. Chose dt swiss if you need a more durable, fail safe option in their star ratchet design. I will never purchase I9 due to I9's lack of accountability. You expect premium support when you pay a premium price.
I have the DT350 and do not like them, it came with the 18 teeth ratchet, I felt like I had a half rotation of the crank before engagement, it felt like a step down from the XT hubs I had. I spent another $100 for the 54 ratchet and still do not like the engagement. When I upgraded to the 54 I saw the freehub had gouges from the XT cassette, it is soft aluminum. The inexpensive hubs became very expensive. $225.00 for DT 350 hub, $100 for the 54 ratchet upgrade, another $85 if I want to upgrade to a steel freehub= a total of $410.00. For that price I should have gone with the I9.
Sorry to be skeptical but I highly doubt you, or anyone else for that mater, would notice the difference between 6* engagement and 3*. Maybe in the work stand but actually riding? Also the drag would be substantially more noticeable than the engagement, i9 hubs have massive drag I could feel it slowing the bike down which I can't say about any other hub. DT are on just about every pro bike for a reason, they just work, the failure rate on dt240 hubs is literally 0%. Stick with the hub you have and ride your bike, i9 are cool looking but a pain in the ass to own.
T Sturdy, I would certainly notice. I'm using a Chinese brand, Chosen, OEM of Halo hubs, with 120T engagement with 3 wedge pawls. The pawls have 10T each. Every time I use other bikes with more than 3° engagement it felt laggy. You'd surely feel the delay especially on technical climbs. Try 120T then ride something laggy like the Hope Pro 4 hubs. You'd surely notice.
6* vs 3* will be imperceptible, seriously the difference at the end of the crank arm is only 2.5 mm, trust me you can't tell. I don't think the best riders in the world could tell, just ride faster, more often, stop worrying about 2.5 mm... If you rode more you'd understand what durability means to cyclists. Not trying to offend you, just saying, for most of us if something is functional enough but vastly more durable, that's the one to get.
What about Stealth hubs, also sprag clutch, Box Components acquired them moved production to Asia, but not tried them, but they ha e different feel i heard in Vital mtb video
The Industry9 is a work of Art. The DT Swiss is designed by the likes of the Windows OS UI design team. Okay, maybe not that ugly. But very mediocre still...
i9 is not known for little to no maintenance.. I9 is a brand new company.. They NEED to produce those in different colors to get the buyers. Like old companies did. 95% of those old and NEW companies that did something cool, in different colors failed. They were bought or just simply nobody bought their things.. I wouldn't even say that CK or Hope are big companies. DT is bigger. Mavic is waaaay bigger. And on top of the chain sitting Sram and Shimano.. It's not easy to sell your crap. Even if it's good.
Moo i9 has been producing wheel-sets and hubs since 2005... not exactly “brand new.” This alone is probably enough to make someone question the validity of the rest of your statement.
i9 paws and rathet is made from aluminum, and you say it is robust? Joking right? Even cheapest hubs on market have their paws and ratchet made from hardened steel, and everyone who disassemble hub for atleast one time know that hardened steel is top option when materials suffering from friction. This hubs are junk for kids who like change parts every 3-6 month.
Absolutely fantastic. I’m 250#, and my three year old Race Face free hub just failed. I wasn’t sure what to do for replacement, but now the answer is clear: DT. I’m sold on the 360 degree engagement, and it looks like if anything does goes wrong after another three years, it will be easy to fix.
Sound would be the final thing of consequence to many riders. I have the i9s and my dad has the DTs. My bike is probably 3 times louder if not more, and honestly. I’m extremely proud of my angry bee sounding wheels.
Gavyn Pendleton I come from bmx road brakeless most of the time. I used those angry bees to gauge my speed. I love a loud hubto.
Put 54t ratchet into the DT hub and you also get angry bee sounding wheels.
I’m jealous
Robert Trageser how does industry 9 compare to chris king?
RollinRat Man you must work for CK , The sprague hubs by Onyx are the best, that’s why helicopters use them in their drive mechanism....
dt swiss 240s are the ak 47 of hubs
I think it would have been worth adding a CK hub in your review as well because of the technical differences between all 3 hubs. For me, I'm a DT Swiss guy - 5 sets of wheels with DT Swiss hubs (2 with upgrades)!
Very nice video! Well explained and informative. Thanks!
Thanks for your comment. We do our best. Cheers... LB Team
Slik Graphics allows you numerous color choices to the decal on the DT Swiss hubs or most wheels & hubs for that matter. In this case a solution to the statement that “DT Swiss 240 hubs only come in black”. Now you can get those great DT’s giving up anything. The Swiss historically have been known make some of the best wrist watches known to man. They seem to have an affinity for small mechanisms and how each moving part works in harmony with each other. I think it’s obviously clear the Swiss can tackle building efficient and tight bicycle wheel hubs. DT Swiss hubs for me please because it a “function first approach”.
Man, these are awesome videos. Thank you.
Ratchet over pawls any day of the year - coming from a professional wheel builder who knows how i9 Torch pawls (and any other pawl freehub for that matter) tend to fail when they fail...
You just cant break the simple system DT Swiss and other companies employ, whereas pawls wear out - the heavier you are and the more miles you put in, perhaps alot of uphill too, the faster they will bow out.
Aside from that, weight on the hub is vastly overrated. That is not an argument for or against either of these. You want to save weight on the rim and tyre if you want to feel the difference when riding.
That being said, I'd toss Chris King ISO Hubs in the mix of the price range we're talking about, for they look prettier than DT Swiss are in various anodized colors available (while DT Swiss hubs are painted), are just as reliable as DT Swiss and give you the bonus of prolonging bearing life substantually by being able to adjust the play and pre-load. 72 points of simultaneous engagement is enough and will outlast any pawl hub by years without worries.
To me it sounds like the very best design was taken away (patent) by DT swiss and out of need arose the I9 design. The DT design adheres to the KISS principle and less moving parts. The other HUB manufacturer's have to adopt to fancy colors to attract buyers it seems like.
Agree, and tooless maintenance. Being over 250 lbs I have destroyed hubs with the prawl system
I9: *makes the hydra hubs with 690 POE*
Do you offer decals for the 240 hubs to clean of the red?
We do not but there are companies that do make them. Silk Graphics would be our recommendation.
@@LightBicycleOfficial yeah, but these should be applied before building up the wheels. If you don't offer this as some kind of an upgrade, then is it maybe possible to send in some hubs?
What's the best mtb hubs .i live in Costa Rica , where it's either hot and dusty Dec- April or rainy season mud and rocks May- Nov. The environment is a totall killer here. You gotta clean bike after every ride.
Average ride 60+ kilometers and 2- 5000 climbing every ride . gotta love it and I live on the ocean. Surf sometimes .
Was scheduled to do La Ruta Conquistador in Nov, cancelled due to virus . look that race up !!
If anyone is wondering the best hubs you can buy are the Onyx hubs end of story. They use the same sprague clutch mechanism as a helicopter uses in it’s drive for the rotor blades. DT Swiss for the simplicity and reliability otherwise...
Hi what is the best hub you have in lightbicycle for road, weight and quality wise?
Hi Frolin, DT180 hubs are high quality and have a very low weight. I9 Torch and DT240s also have great value. See our full hub list here: www.lightbicycle.com/newsletter/Light-Bicycle-Bike-Hub-List-of-2020.html
DT any time. its simple (best technology mast be simple) , drag free, not too noisy, very light simple thread free maintenance.... the only down side is price but if you calculate the life span you get out of it... it will give good reason to used it.
respect I9 but it falls in any category against DT including price.
Thanks for your comment. DT can be a bit price but it is very nice to have a low maintenance hub that proforms for many rides. Cheers
Do i9 offer a 700c version for 9 speed quick release
❤both but i9 is definitely the candy shop!
On a road bike with DT swiss hubs, does it make any difference the stock 18T in comparison with the 36T star rachet?
Thank you.
18T is just fine. There isn't really a difference when it comes to road use.
No mention about rolling resistance. Dt 240 and 350s have quite a bit of rolling resistance, and I wonder how industry nine compares. I would like to eventually replace my hubs on my light touring commuter bike, but so far nothing beats the low rolling resistance of my Campagnolo hubs.
I9 for fatbike and DT for normal bike. Why - here is why. Fatbike needs to be LOUD!! People just don't hear me coming but with the I9 rear hub no problems. DT is too quiet and people don't hear me coming. In the snowy trail ride it really matters. People are standing there on my way with their dogs if I ride my bontrager hubs because they just don't hear. With I9 hubs they hear me coming and give me some room to pass. Sometimes I adjust my front brakes so that it will screeeeeeeeaaaaaaam! Helps a lot ;-) I think the I9 is showing already some sings of unreliability issues like random banging - usually after freewheeling for sure. Never happened in the DT hub though. DT I can trust :-)
Hey, thanks but where is the freewheeling noise comparison? Not less important a parameter than weight, probably even more )
I had Onyx on my last bike, I'm going DT 240 this time. DT are simple, work and optimised to be balanced in all categories, Onyx are heavily biased towards fast engagement and silence but it comes at a cost, weight. My rear wheel with Onyx felt like a brick, weight isn't only bad for gyroscopic effect or acceleration but it also impact the unsprung mass of the rear suspension a lot. In addition super high engagement hubs cause more pedal kickback further hindering suspension performance as when the chain tensions under compression there is no slack in the drivetrain. Not to mention the anodising on my Onyx was piss poor, I bought orange and exepected something like Hope orange, instead they looked like a dull washed out faded mango colour. Finally they developed notchiness and missed engagement sometimes after a while and also the grease I used somehow seized my axle in the Onyx hub and I had to tap it out hard to get it out. But the main thing is the weight, 475 grams for a hub vs the DT 240 EXP at 200 grams and also Onyx don't offer straight pull and they are twice the price. Yea the instant engagement is cool when you go do the road for the first time and you are like wow thats crazy and the silence is cool. But after I while you realise that they weigh a ton and you can feel it riding and picking up the bike back wheel off the ground, you get bored of the silence and want a cool sounding hub and this combined with the durability issues, ridiculous cost, crappy anodising and too fast engagement making suspension action under braking worse means I will never touch them again. There is a lot of cons for that instant engagement and silence.
I think it would be worth emphasizing the quicker engagement for the i9 to contrast its 30 gram extra weight.
Hi. Thanks for your feedback. Which hub do you prefer?
dt swiss is better .if you look about the ratchet system and comparing to i9 pawls. in the end of the day pawls house of i9 they loosing not fitted anymore or worse case is crack around the house pawls. but dt swiss ratchet teeth are really easy to replace.and maintenance.
Onyx!
cool
Thanks for watching.
I've had freehub shell failures twice with I9 and had little to no product support from them. They may have high engagement but I've had to service their rear hub non stop since owning. Their pawl design isn't as robust and is prone to disengagement compared to dt swiss. The bottom... if you want fancy colors and enjoy servicing your bike excessively then go with I9. Chose dt swiss if you need a more durable, fail safe option in their star ratchet design. I will never purchase I9 due to I9's lack of accountability. You expect premium support when you pay a premium price.
I have the DT350 and do not like them, it came with the 18 teeth ratchet, I felt like I had a half rotation of the crank before engagement, it felt like a step down from the XT hubs I had. I spent another $100 for the 54 ratchet and still do not like the engagement. When I upgraded to the 54 I saw the freehub had gouges from the XT cassette, it is soft aluminum. The inexpensive hubs became very expensive. $225.00 for DT 350 hub, $100 for the 54 ratchet upgrade, another $85 if I want to upgrade to a steel freehub= a total of $410.00. For that price I should have gone with the I9.
Sorry to be skeptical but I highly doubt you, or anyone else for that mater, would notice the difference between 6* engagement and 3*. Maybe in the work stand but actually riding? Also the drag would be substantially more noticeable than the engagement, i9 hubs have massive drag I could feel it slowing the bike down which I can't say about any other hub. DT are on just about every pro bike for a reason, they just work, the failure rate on dt240 hubs is literally 0%. Stick with the hub you have and ride your bike, i9 are cool looking but a pain in the ass to own.
T Sturdy, I would certainly notice. I'm using a Chinese brand, Chosen, OEM of Halo hubs, with 120T engagement with 3 wedge pawls. The pawls have 10T each. Every time I use other bikes with more than 3° engagement it felt laggy. You'd surely feel the delay especially on technical climbs. Try 120T then ride something laggy like the Hope Pro 4 hubs. You'd surely notice.
6* vs 3* will be imperceptible, seriously the difference at the end of the crank arm is only 2.5 mm, trust me you can't tell. I don't think the best riders in the world could tell, just ride faster, more often, stop worrying about 2.5 mm... If you rode more you'd understand what durability means to cyclists. Not trying to offend you, just saying, for most of us if something is functional enough but vastly more durable, that's the one to get.
Next time don’t buy the cheap 350, get the Swiss built 240s. I’ve owned both, they are not of the same quality
@@sturdyvw Lol !! 6 vs 3 degres is a world of difference. You need to ride harder!!
Only Onyx has 360 degrees of engagement
What about Stealth hubs, also sprag clutch, Box Components acquired them moved production to Asia, but not tried them, but they ha e different feel i heard in Vital mtb video
The Industry9 is a work of Art.
The DT Swiss is designed by the likes of the Windows OS UI design team. Okay, maybe not that ugly. But very mediocre still...
Guys in the comment section are saying Dt's are better or I9 are better etc. Lets be honest ,Chris King is the n1 brand period.
i9 is not known for little to no maintenance.. I9 is a brand new company.. They NEED to produce those in different colors to get the buyers. Like old companies did. 95% of those old and NEW companies that did something cool, in different colors failed. They were bought or just simply nobody bought their things..
I wouldn't even say that CK or Hope are big companies. DT is bigger. Mavic is waaaay bigger. And on top of the chain sitting Sram and Shimano.. It's not easy to sell your crap. Even if it's good.
Moo i9 has been producing wheel-sets and hubs since 2005... not exactly “brand new.” This alone is probably enough to make someone question the validity of the rest of your statement.
i9 paws and rathet is made from aluminum, and you say it is robust? Joking right? Even cheapest hubs on market have their paws and ratchet made from hardened steel, and everyone who disassemble hub for atleast one time know that hardened steel is top option when materials suffering from friction. This hubs are junk for kids who like change parts every 3-6 month.
Hi vic tor. The i9 Drive Ring and Pawls are made of hardened tool steel. They are very durable.
DT Swiss please, i dont care its black ...
Industry 9 way better. The only people who say DT are better are those who can't afford I9.
240d and i9s are not that different in price so you just sound like a fanboy.