IndyCar is stuck in 2007
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- There's been a ton of talk about IndyCar's lack of direction recently. I throw my two cents into the ring with a balanced critique of what IndyCar does extremely well and what could be improved on as the Penske Era moves into the future.
#IndyCar #Indy500 #Penske
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I personally wish Indycar was stuck in the early 1990's
@@3338MAN I wasn't here for that but it looked fun in the highlights real 😁
@@3338MAN yay so many deaths
I will be 70 in April. I’ve been an F1 fan since Watkins Glen 73. Yes, there was the bog.
I started getting into Champ Car/CART/IndyCar in the late 70s (Danny Ongais/Interscope Racing and of course Penske Racing, the Andretti(s), & the Unsers). American open wheel racing lost me when it was dumbed down by Tony George when he threw a hissy fit and created the IRL. I know George has been gone for a long time but it never got me back.
i agree....but i dont think that its the way to survive nowdays....
@@drjian we agree and were hoping Roger Penske would fix what Tony George broke but 3 years later nothing has changed.
Being an IndyCar fan is not easy. It takes perseverance, resilience, and more than a little bit of patience and the hope that one of these days the people at the top won't shoot themselves in the foot once again.
When Danica came along in 2005, I thought that was a good thing, because it got a lot more attention on the series than it had had since before The Split. And I thought they could go from there, and build the whole thing back up to where it had been. But by 2007, I remember being so annoyed that the whole marketing strategy seemed to be about riding Danica's coat tails...and that idiotic "I am Indy" thing with Gene Simmons. Meanwhile you had major sponsors like Target and 7-11 that refused to use their drivers (Tony Kanaan, Scott Dixon, and Dan Wheldon) in mainstream advertising...outside of during a race. The drivers HAD personalities, but the world outside of IndyCar racing had no way of getting to know them.
Oh, and one of the WORST things that year, when Indy 500 winner and that year's eventual champion, Dario Franchitti had his airborne flips two weeks in a row at Michigan and Kentucky, I remember seeing on the national news after one of those wrecks, "Ashley Judd's husband crashes".
I still feel like it's the best racing series in the world. A race is over in less than two hours unless it's the Indy 500 and the competition is great too. Hence why it's the best and most competitive racing series in the world.
🍻🍻
at least you don't have the FIA using the rulebook as a political tool
@@ariansmovies I feel quite the opposite. Everyone drives 98% the same thing, top to bottom. As someone who knows the history of the kinds of technology that were introduced into Championship-class racing, the ancient name for IndyCar, I cannot help but agree with the late Bobby Unser who called the entire direction of the series disgraceful. I do not enjoy seeing yo-yo passingpassingpassingpassingpassing. I want to see the leaders be determined by whom the best is at that point in the race. I want to be able, at all, to see Michael Andretti rocket into a HUUUUGE lead in 1992, and Mark Donohue rocket into a huge lead in 1971. I want to be able to see, at all, Rick Mears running down Gordon Johncock by a second a lap in 1982, and Al Unser, Jr. running down Emerson Fittipaldi, without any prior indication in the race, by half a second a lap in 1989. I want to see Johnny Rutherford show just how much better ground effect is back in 1980, where second place Tom Sneva shrugged and showed not a hint of thinking it unfair when he said, "Against THAT car, we had no chance and we knew it", and I want to see the crowd hang their heads in disappointment if the car that has led 170/177 laps of the (1987) race, and ABSOLUTELY DESERVES to win, even the eventual winner almost apologetically concedes in victory lane, falls out. I want to see the turbine, an engine completely alien to the field it challenged and came within ten miles of beating. I want to see someone decide that moving the engine to other sections of the car (the turbine was to the left of Jones on a track where the wall is to the right) is a good thing, and I want to see how fast clean diesels can go, if they can keep up with the modern spark plug cars. I want to see a world where people accept that different entries ARE different, and some design that year is just plain better than everyone else, so everyone else should learn and then get faster. I am not bored by a sports team dominating a game that they deserve to win a championship in, and I am not bored by the best drivers in the world driving away from those not as good. I am tired of Racing Socialism, and I am tired of IndyCar pissing away a quarter century following its dead end path.
So, we disagree.
I've been watching indy car racing for a long time. It was much more fun when it was ran by CART
To bad Tony George and IMS management thought they were god and formed the horrible IRL series and business model. However what ruined CART was they forgot IMS was an independent organization and championship within the biggest race with a lot of money from the owners and thus why CART didn’t last but knew how to put on a better series glad both sides are together for the last 15 years almost but the fans are no longer into AOWR like they used to be.
What is Cart?
@@Recon6delta Championship Auto Racing Teams
CART the best Series ever IMO.
I loved CART too, and those sleek machines.
As an IndyCar History RUclipsr, I can attest that May has the most amount of attention. And that's understandable but compared to most months, May towers above them all in terms of monthly views. I think we should shine a spotlight on more races outside of Indy.
dude your channel is great. I appreciate all the little known history that you share as well as the groovy music that plays in the backgrounds of your videos. thanks for what you do keep up the good work!
About to binge your content
you're content is incredible bud! You and David are the 1-2 punch an IndyCar fan needs to become a die hard
Just became a subscriber to your channel!
I think putting long beach right after would help a lot in my opinion. I'd pick Iowa before to build experience and hype for oval, then go to long beach to help keep up with the prestige. I think those 3 races are the perfect example to show off IndyCar
Biggest thing for me is the short season, done in September and some gaps of 3 weeks makes the season choppy and kills the energy imo. Gotta at least race every other week to really build something.
The legacy of Boston Consulting, who had the idea to cut off the season early to avoid running against the NFL.
@@Tittymaster while not a bad idea running about every week would keep moment high. I'm mostly a Nascar fan, I tune into Indy when I remember it's on but if they ran every weekend I'd probably tune in a lot more. Squish the schedule together or fill the gaps.
Also more ovals
Fully agree, it feels like we only go racing for like 6 months of the year then Indycar is completely forgotten about for another 5 ½ months until 5 mins before the new season starts.
so many double headers too. . . would rather see more venues
Hi David I'm a fan from the UK and my interest with Indycar started when Alonso did the 500. But I didn't stick around because it was so difficult and expensive to watch. But since Sky F1 started showing it and McLaren joined I gave it a second chance and have been hooked since. It feels like Indycar is more popular than ever in the UK even though it is still niche here.
So in a way Indycar is benefiting from F1 in the UK by being on their channel.
I'm a big fan of Pato, he's such a great personality.
“The 500 is doing well, who cares about the rest of the season?” was exactly USAC’s attitude in the ‘70s that prompted Dan Gurney, Pat Patrick, and some guy named Roger Penske to get the teams together and form CART. It wasn’t surprising to see that attitude come back in the TG era since in many ways he was just trying to relitigate the 1979 split because family honor or whatever. But it’s very frustrating to see it persist in this post-TG era particularly when one of the guys who knew how bad that line of thinking was 40 years ago is now in charge and should know better.
And all was lost when that little rat Kevin Kalkoven sold them out.
I'm a NASCAR fan, and I haven't really followed IndyCar or open wheel racing in general, but David... you're videos are very educational and I appreciate your enthusiasm for this discipline of racing. You are definitely an heir to the throne of Robin Miller in regards to open wheel journalism.
Roger is the Bernie Ecclestone of Indycar
Nothing surprises me more than watching clips from first day qualifying at Indianapolis to see a 99% empty grandstand. What the hell happened? That used to be the second-largest spectator event in the world.
“And it’s a new track record!” - Tom Carnegie
@@3338MAN - Boy, you just don’t understand … Indy is Hallowed Ground.
What happened? Greedy control freaks like Tony George and Roger Penske.
500 aside, Indycar is just a spec car series for rich kids.
@@sking2173 "You just don't know what Indy means" - Little Al.
The 25-8 rule spoiled it. Now they do not set pole and day 1 so the only purpose is the set the order for the middle and back.
I cannot express just how on-point this is. IndyCar is such a massively underutilized series and business. So much potential that I feel is wasted or not acted upon (and I'm saying this as someone who would love to work with them too). If IndyCar literally just copied some of the basic procedures and practices F1 uses (some low hanging fruit as far as I'm concerned) that alone would be a big step forward.
But on the positive side...its the only Motorsport thats big and doesn't go full on show/marketing like nascar and f1 currently are heading
@@mrbungle3310 I think that point speaks heavily to its loyal fanbase more than anything, which is certainly a positive. They've got the core fanbase, now let's extract some potential!
I feel like Liberty needs to buy IndyCar
@@alistairfannell6694 Not sure Liberty is in the business of acquiring a distressed asset that's losing market share to their own property on a daily basis. 😆 But I'm sure they could turn it around pretty quick if they did buy in.
I stand corrected...Apparently they were actually interested at one point.
Well spoken David, about time somebody spoke out about the stagnation Indycar is in.
13:25 " hey boss we just had 2 million viewers on youtube can you believe it!?"
Tony george " 2 million viewers watching our product for FREE?? We need to put a stop to that "
I’m glad you made this video, man. I love this sport so much and I want it to grow! It’s a shame that IndyCar is still not growing big. People are sleeping on IndyCar due to too many reasons…
This sport deserves more attention!
Why can’t they promote their non-Indy 500 races like the Indy 500? We need more ovals and a 50/50 ovals and circuits schedule. The sport NEEDS to be promoted better on TV and social media. There’s so many options they can do, but I feel like they haven’t done too much. Maybe some effort, but not as much as I thought. There’s gotta be something to make IndyCar grow again!
I am glad that ratings are up and far counts are up, but man, the sport has a chance to be popular alongside with NASCAR and F1
It's a bummer that IndyCar had problems with Pocono and Fontana, because I think the Triple Crown of IndyCar Ovals could've helped with promoting other IndyCar races outside of the Indy 500 without taking away from it.
Also, I've always been under the impression that Road America and Long Beach are far more iconic tracks than all of the American tracks that F1 races at, granted Miami and Vegas have almost no history. Couldn't IndyCar use that to their advantage?
@@francisdawson4092 especially Long Beach since F1 was there.
But Formula 1 is just that damn popular
@@francisdawson4092 Excellent set of points. IndyCar needs a calendar full of noteworthy races, and a Triple Crown season-within-a-season would REALLY have helped with raising the interest level in the series. I was chatting with people during the replay stream of a Fontana 500 CART race a few days ago - the speedways are IndyCar's best party trick. The speeds are a brilliant way to hook people in and convince them that this series isn't just a slower version of F1, and IndyCar's progress has really been hampered by the lack of a proper speedway oval on the schedule (aside from Indy and the flagging TMS).
And, while I hate the whole marketing side of running a racing series, I do think IndyCar needs to do a better job of getting across just how much history they have at tracks like Long Beach, Road America, and the like. Not to mention, if you're gonna add races, don't add gimmicky sideshows like Nashville. Bring back genuine classics like Mont Tremblant. IndyCar needs to dig deep into its history to make the series championship _mean something._
IndyCar is at the end of the day a national racing series. Sure it has a race in Toronto but it's still a U.S national series. The FIA Formula One World Championship is a World Championship that can race in different countries across the world and make a profit. If Indycar were to go to France for instance, it just wouldn't be as profitable. Yes the sport can improve but it will never be as popular as F1
@@Atrail_Mckinley4786
Depends on what you mean by "more popular". Globally probably not, but domestically it used to be more popular than f1 and still should be. Depends on what the goal of the series is.
David, your passion for IndyCar is evident and I'm glad to see you're not afraid to address the shortcomings of the sport we all love so much--that's been sorely lacking since the passing of Robin Miller.
The fact that IndyCar cannot get Milwaukee onto the schedule just about sums up them tbh. The world's oldest track in IndyCar heartland. Meanwhile they'll run 2 races at the IMS road course without issue or the crashfest at Nashville. Can't get a race in Mexico going either, or Pocono.
A historic series with museum piece automobiles and a stale vision for the future, from the outside looking in. First race as a spectator 1958, first race as a crewman 1973
I like what Roger has done so far. Car counts are up. Schedule has stability. 14 races are on local NBC. TV ratings are up as well. I think some fans are being unrealistic and expecting too much too soon especially since everything was at a standstill thanks to COVID.
All good points.
F1’s popularity grew during Covid… time to stop using that as a crutch 🩼
This I agree with. Indycar is at least stable. It only really needs growth. Compare that to the dumpster fire NASCAR is in.
@@SeraphoftheRoundTable I don’t disagree but that dumpster fire still draws a bigger crowd
@@jstoli996c4s F1's popularity grew primarily because someone other than Mercedes showed a capacity to win races. Plain and simple. It's amazing what multiple winners will do for the popularity of a 'racing' series.
I've attended so many local Sat night racing venues where the open wheel modifieds (in other words, the most Indy-like cars) go LAST because they are the most exciting. The answer is there, somewhere between Iowa and Milwaukee, and NOT in straight line bad ass speed. Handling along with speed, close racing, grit and grime. In those circumstances open wheel will always be more exciting than stock cars. F1 has become so hospital clean and bland - that will work in Europe and sports washing countries, like European football (soccer) does. For Indycar to reach the summit in America again, it's management needs to think NFL not Premiere League.
24 events, 8 ovals, 6 street, 10 road. No need for double headers, but if there are some, they would take place at the same event. Therefore Iowa would be two races, but we'd still visit 7 more ovals.
Michigan and Pocono 500 miles for a triple crown would work as well.
You have to have more events to have more eyes, and you have to be more consistent with race spacing to keep them focused.
The problem with IndyCar right now, is Roger Penske. Not anything he does specifically, but rather, how he owns literally everything around it. When a Penske Driver, In a Penske owned car, on a Penske ran team, sponsored by Penske, wins the Penske series championship on a track owned by Penske, it does nothing for the intrigue of the sport. Just save the trouble next year, give everyone the year off, and let Roger give himself his own trophy and sign a nice big check to himself. It would be like if the France family started a NASCAR team and just dominated. No one wants to see that shit.
As a European F1 fan, the entry of McLaren was big for us here. IndyCar has a foothold, a small one, but it’s growing here. Pato is a huge boost to IndyCar. As a hardcore McLaren fan I see him as a crazy quick stateside McLaren driver, rather than just an IndyCar driver.
Those true Indy Car fans hear your words loud and clear, because we recognize the same problems you eloquently stated. Perfect.
David, don't apoligze for making your videos too long. We Indy fans love the content. You're doing an awesome job. Keep it up.
The trouble with Indy Car is that they are not exploring social media like Liberty Media for F1. Unless they make an immediate change, they will die as Sears, JC-Penny, Toys R Us etc.
I never understood this in Indycar over the past decade and a half and it’s PREVALENT in NASCAR today. These Fortune 500 companies and lack of commercials involving the drivers. Target and Verizon all over Indycar and I never saw a commercial with any Indycar driver. Where are the Bass Pro commercials with Truex and Dillon? Where are the Body Armor commercials with all the athletes across the board with Blaney? I would love to see these driver sponsor contracts because I wouldn’t sign that crap if I didn’t get at least 2 commercials.
I consider myself an Indy enthusiast and yeah I do come from F1, but what made me like IndyCar was being the best open wheel category of the continent, I live in Panama and I hope IndyCar goes outside North America, maybe a race in Brazil would be nice. it doesn't need to be global just it can be bigger continentally and specially with marketing.
Let's be honest, F1 already is the #1 open wheel series in the USA for casuals. IndyCar has to do something quickly if it wants to respond.
The other thing to point out is that the product being pushed by F1 is not that good. The cars are ugly, the engines are totally uninspiring, and the DRS racing is utter junk, and yet they are getting all this popularity?!?! Honestly, stay normally aspirated, maintain push to pass, keep the fabulous US road and street circuits and have definite overseas winning events, (Brazil, Mexico, and Australia). MAKE THE CARS EXCITING BECAUSE F1 CARS ARE NOT AT THE MOMENT!! Now’s the opportunity to go down the opposite path. Do that and true motorsport fans will turn out in droves.
The #1 problem IndyCar has is poor quality TV broadcasting which is mainly too damn many commercials. F1 has terrible racing but it's better TV because the race isn't all chopped to pieces.
Yes, yes! TV direction has been horrible and the ads are only a part of the problem (it still sucked on ad-free streams like SkyF1).
Their whole marketing team needs a rework. Team sites have horrible Team Stores with garbage merchandise. The mobile app is bad. The website needs work. Event planning and marketing around those are not horrible but the off-track stuff needs help.
Big example of a DTS-like show for another series is with both Nascar and MotoGP. Both of them had docuseries that released this past year, and nobody have a hoot.
One thing that confuses me is why we haven't seen 500 mile races at Michigan, Chicagoland, Kansas, Fontana, etc in several years. So many great superspeedways going to waste.
The way IndyCar chased away Porsche in 2019 was incredibly dumb. They could have milked Porsche's entry into the sport so HARD. That would have been a nice story to create digital content and drive interest.
A TV show is a bit outdated. IndyCar should not copy Drive To Survive, or it will always be compared to it. They need to find their own niche. As far as digital content goes, IndyCar needs to start and run with it. There needs to be a library of it in case someone gets hooked.
New chassis and a third engine supplier would be great.
I have mixed feelings about the Penske era so far. I really don't like the way that he's handled IMS, from the merch store to the new fencing that is being used to keep the fans corralled instead of free roaming.
I know that the series would have folded had the George family been running things when the lockdowns happened. So I'm thankful for Penske on that front. But the series itself has been on cruise control for too long, especially with the great personalities and talent it has. Hell, I even like the public facing media and management people. I just hate the idea of IndyCar not thriving because Penske wants to keep the status quo of the 500 being the crown jewel and everything else staying way behind.
We love IndyCar and have been going to the Texas Motor Speedway race for the last two years since moving up here. Glad last year’s race was better. It was nice to meet you there. Also, glad they will keep going and hope it continues for a long time. I really enjoy the drivers and how nice and approachable most of them are. Scott McLaughlin even remembered us from last year when we were in the autograph line this year. He was talking to us too much, and we got rushed along for holding up the line. My son Luke’s favorite number is 3, but his favorite driver is Alexander Rossi who has also been really nice and approachable when we’ve met him. We also like Will Power because his son is almost the same age as my son Luke. We hope to get Luke into karting soon. He is the biggest racing fan ever. He is constantly playing with his race cars at home. I’m not sure why he plays with his NASCARs more when he prefers IndyCar and wants to be an IndyCar driver, but NASCARS are available at Walmart. We are able to get new ones every few weeks. IndyCar also needs a few more races in a year and a new chassis that fits the aero screen better. Increasing engine counts would be great as well, and we can always dream about a new manufacturer joining sometime soon. The marketing things you talked about definitely make sense too. I’m telling all my friends to go to the IndyCar race at Texas Motor Speedway next year. Forgot to mention some more international races. First obvious one would be Mexico. I also like how others commented about keeping and adding more high speed ovals to be different from F1. Please keep Texas, not that it’s good racing, but it’s really close to us. Hopefully they can fix it and make it better for everyone.
I definitely think the first thing Indycar needs to do is take inspiration from F1 and how they run social media and make their own interpretation on presenting Indycar to casuals across said, social media. Basically rework their entire social media process. That would be just a start
The thing F1 has going for it in the US is the broadcasts are _Ad Free_ while NBC is pretty notorious for it's horrid amount of ads, especially with the Olympics. DTS is much more accessible on Netflix since more people have Netflix than a Peacock subscription. Even if IndyCar gets their own DTS, it'll be seen as a poor imitation, and will likely be streaming on a platform most people don't have.
David, I'm 13 years older than you and love your intelligent analysis of INDYCAR and NASCAR, my favorite motorsports series since childhood. Your input is beyond your years and I hope others look at you like a Robin Miller or my favorite guy ever, Dave Despain. Your already as good as those few legendary former INDY/NASCAR pit reporters.
A lot of these issues sound like many of the problems F1 was facing before the Liberty takeover.
Do we think it’s completely out of question to have two races in England, Brands Hatch and Donington? A couple races in Japan, Motegi and Tsukuba, and a race in Australia ideally Phillip Island and New Zealand at Pukekoe Park? They should also race at the F1 track in Mexico!
Indy car died when the cars became specified. Indy was an event where each of the car makers made their OWN car with the engine they wanted. Remember the Coyote, Lotus, Lola, Chaparral, etc. Low slung like the Johnny Lighting Special. Now all the cars are the same and it fricking boring.
I remember the great Dean Van Lines Willard Battery Offy Special! Those Limey's and there silly rear engined cars ruined Indy
As an F1 fan, I'm wondering if the Indy community is also as active? This might be a crucial difference. In F1, whichever the platform, from Insta to Reddit, the community is very reactive, each weekend dozens of new memes are created, news discussed, thousands of posts made, questions asked...
It makes the sport lively and welcoming.
A good way to solve it cold be doing something like WEC did with the Hypercar BOP system, to bring in great brands. Ferrari, for example...talked with Indy but, in the end, made the choice to go there...
Mansellmania wasn't really a thing, he moved the needle in foreign markets, but in the US no one really cared that he was in CART(Andretti was probably a bigger deal to F1 because of American ratings at first). They actually had to cancel a string of Mansell autograph signings at KMarrt from lack of interest.
IndyCar needs to aggressively target the Nascar and F1 audiences.
It is easier to market Indycar to the F1 audience in my view because many F1 drivers head to Indycar after they get done in F1 & because there are similarities between the two series in terms of tracks & cars. The bubble on F1 in the US is eventually going to burst & Indycar needs to be ready to attract those F1 fans. As for marketing to the NASCAR audience, Indycar should be careful because there's still this stigma unfortunately that the majority of NASCAR fans hate motorsports that race on road/street courses & hate those kinds of tracks in their own series. If Indycar really wants to target the NASCAR audience, they need to market the oval races in a way that does not piss off the traditional Indycar fans.
@@chrisguardiano6143 I fully agree. I think IndyCar would probably need two separate marketing strategies for each audience.
Marketing, promoting, communication, marketing, promoting, communication. This needs to be the focus and it’s sadly not.
The Indy 500 is "NOTHING" like it used to be. I grew up in Indy during the 60's,70's. I worked for UPI in the mid 70's at the Speedway. I was a full time crew member of a team in the late 90's.
The month of May is better than it's been in a while. But it will "NEVER" be as big as it was in it's heyday.
Said it before and I’ll say it again. If Indycar wanted to distance itself from F1 and pitch it to a European audience, they shouldn’t have brought in the aeroscreen. Yup it would be more dangerous, but motorsport is dangerous. Deal with it. They could’ve pitched it as “real open-wheel racing”. Instead, with the introduction of hybrid power trains, all they are doing is remaining a lesser form of F1, and by not having international races. It is always going to have a niche appeal.
All they really need to do now is crank up the RPM's to near CART levels and bring back Michigan and California (if it is still around).
IndyCar has so much potential. It could rival F1, but it needs to make a few changes. The cars are too bulky looking. They need to mimic F1 cars, look more swoopy, and handle better. Also, maybe they could go to a v8 normally aspirated engine, so that more manufacturers could be involved.
7:07 Ironically, I became a fan in 2014
I'd love to see them return to Michigan for a 500 mile race
Some cause for optimism here: F1 was terrible at social media until Liberty bought the series, so everything they've done to get attention again was only done in, like, the last six years or so. Before that Bernie Ecclestone appeared to both hate and fear this sort of thing, actively taking down content made by fans with copyright claims. F1 went from one of the worst sports for social media presence to one of the best relatively quickly.
If indycar is stuck in 2007 then they better bring back the Grand Prix of Cleveland
"But Dabid, muh hybrids will fix everythang..."
No, I'm sorry. No one in the paddock want's hybrids, none of the drivers want hybrids, none of the team owners want hybrids, none of the sponsors care about hybrids. Making your cars stupidly expensive, complex, and overweight is not going to help drive more people to your series. Especially not when the issue is simply, we don't have enough engines to suppy the teams so they can race...
Here's my simple 5 step Roadmap to get Indycar moving in the right direction.
1. Hybrid systems idea is put on hold until we have new chassis that are purpose built to handle them. In the mean time, the new 2.4 and the old 2.6 will be BOP'ed against each other to increase potental entries. 2.6 will be rented on a per race basis while the 2.4's will be leased for the whole season.
2. A video game, made by Reiza Studios, will come out as fast as humanly possible. Indycar Racing Season 202X or a Indycar Racing Season 202X Expansion for AMS 2 featuring whatever tracks they don't have in the game yet. The license will be ripped away from MSG and be left open for anyone to license for a resonable fee, under the condition the entire series is highlighted and not just the Indy 500. The goal is more connection to the fans, and not "Mah Indy 500"
3. Put the 500 Mile oval races back of the schedule. Pocono and or Michigan, I don't care what it takes. One or the other. We're going back to the Glen and Cota too. Why Indycar left those super popular races I will never know?
4. Hire enough socal media staff, so when I type in "When is the next indycar race" I actually get the start time for the Next Indycar Race and not the last one.
5. Send Indycar on a raid of the F1 races. I want Indycars doing donuts in the parking lots, drivers signing autographs and taking pictures, and if we could find someone crazy enough to sneak a indycar out onto the track during F1's free practice then we do it. I want planes with banners that say "Wouldn't you rather be watching Indycar?" I'm talking full media, gorilla warfare styled blitz to make sure when people leave, they go, "What the hell is Indycar, and why are these people so nuts about it?"
you hit the nail on the head. The hype and interest that F1 is gaining huge ground in the US and should make indycar start to innovate or fade into the background
All you have to do is look at the event that F1 just did in Las Vegas to see how popular F1 has become in the US
Liberty media set their sights on the American market and they are taking it incredibly seriously.
to liberty their due, they have been able to accomplish something that F1 has been scratching up a wall to do in the last couple decades
COTA, Miami, now Vegas it's just a matter of time
That popularity is due to a tv show that perhaps Indycar should explore. Nothing drives interest like behind the scenes cameras that allow you to really fall in love with the drivers.
@@SaintGBar22 Drive to survive is used way too much as an example when it's impact was not all that signifigant. Yes that show brought in some new US viewers that wouldn't have watched f1 in the first place.
I would say that F1's choice venue to host new races in the US Miami,vegas has much more to do with the popularity boost than that show ever did. anyone who knew anything about F1 saw that show for what it was, marketing with fake soap opera drama
@@jasontomlinson618 I think DTS’ main impact is the humanizing of the drivers. That’s how you bring storylines into life. F1’s always had drama (every racing driver has to be at least somewhat egotistical, so drama’s a natural outcome), DTS just allowed the casual fans to actually know about it.
I have zero doubt Indycar’s got the potential to be the same. I mean, the racing is already closer (and arguably, better, although that’s an opinion), so if you can market it right I don’t see why the US domestic audience couldn’t be fully pulled into indycar.
i mean F1 didn't even try hard until Liberty took over. Ecclestone was an amazing business man but had no clue about modern 21st century marketing.
@@jasontomlinson618 i think you overestimate people. Even here in Europe a lot of viewesr fell for DTS. Now we're stuck with their stupid comments and fanboying.
Many thoughts, but the main one is Indy has a very international driver base yet only markets to North America.
Seems like they could tour Australia in February, spend September in Europe or something like that would be big winner
I hope one day the EuroSpeedway Lausitz and Surfers Paradise will be back on the schedule.
A lot of the teams can’t afford that is the problem
I’m a European, a Brit to be more specific and I really like Indycar I think it’s just pure motorsport and it pains me because it is SO underutilised it’s insane, but unfortunately Indycar as a business just don’t get it, it feels very separate and a little bit like it’s stuck in the mid 2000s or even the Bernie era where it’s stuck in it’s ways and won’t accept that the world has changed so much but it hasn’t changed with it, Indycar needs to double down on what F1 has done so well and throw itself into the modern world without hesitation and they need to do it now more than ever, yes F1 has it’s flaws and it’s downsides, but it’s probably the biggest or most popular sport in the world right now behind Football and that’s because liberty realised the biggest issue with the Bernie era, they’ve taken the time to modernise it, give fans so many shows like Jolyan Plamers analysis, DTS, podcasts, weekend warmup, the debrief, chasing the dream, promoting Formula 2 and Formula 3 so much on their socials, they’ve given information and access to fan off grid content through social media to the point where if a fan really threw themselves at it, they’d end up knowing as much as the actual teams know. unlike Indy, they’ve understood the absolute gold mine it is if done correctly, Tik Tok, Instragram, Twitter (as cursed of a place that is), to keep it ever going with the changing times so that the sport is always moving and isn’t for a second “out of time”, as much flack as DTS gets, it’s done absolute wonders for F1 and has literally boosted it right into P1, and rightly Liberty have noticed that and doubled down on making it modernised, making it a show, making it a pure entertainment spectacle. I know Penski’s laid down that Indycar doesn’t need a DTS styled show and for the series to be completely modernised but coming from someone who’s watched F1’s rise to the top spot in global sports, there are 24 races next year, 3 of those in America and they’re all sold out, and now with a fully American driver in Logan Sargent who’s insanely talented and has climbed his way through the F1 ladder, F1 is taking America by storm, and if serous alarm bells ain’t ringing then unfortunately the series will never get any bigger than it is
I love IndyCar and I catch every race every year. There are some issues I have with the sport though. Such as the Indy 500 being the only race that gets great promotion (particularly TV), adding more content to their RUclips channel, adding more races to the calendar and going to new places, bring back the other 500 races, and bringing in Larson, KFB and others to do the Indy 500.
I would prefer a 20-21 race schedule (adding races at beginning of season), having shows on their RUclips channel talking about IndyCar (for example NASCAR's Backseat Drivers), adding new venues and having more NBC races and less cable/Peacock races, and helping racing superstars like Larson find a competitive seat for the Indy 500.
Indy car is like Formula 2 for those that have nowhere else to go. Like the MLS, it’s where to get a good paycheque when F1 is not an option and you are not prepared to do sports cars.
Indy car winners should go to F2 and prove they are F1 class.
Firestone don’t help, they are owned by Bridgestone. Bridgestone have worldwide presence, Firestone is a sub brand.
Too many rinky-dink races, bad street courses and small ovals.
Television coverage is third rate, and it’s not sold overseas well. I’m not asking for F1 style three day show, but you need a quali day or sprint and a race day that has more than yokel jabberwalky. Get technical info out to public.
Reduce the pit stops, in and out and in and out ad nausium just doesn’t cut it.
Finally, I can read the sponsors on the car, I don’t need a bimbo driver rhyming them off .
The split really impacted it
I agree totally
It was a trainwreck before the split.
The split brought new drivers that we would never have seen .. aka Tony Stewart
All thanks to that crybaby Tony
Loosing a lot of american talent to nascar hurt a lot.
My two teenage daughters are really into F1 to the point of going to race watch parties with their friends and knowing lots of driver names and standings. They have no interest in IndyCar, which doesn’t bode well for the future. Just my anecdotal experience.
As an Indy car fan from the 1970's, I have this to say of today's racing, BOREING!!! I grew up as a teenager in the 70's and watched legends race. Bobby & Al Unser, Gordon Johncock, Johnny Rutherford, A.J. Foyt, Tom Sneva, Mario Andretti, and many more. These were names that were known. Now who's racing? I know Scott McLaughlin from SuperCars and know he has A LOT of talent, but who else is there? Other than another two or three drivers I can't think of anyone else.
One thing that carried over from the split was one chassis. No one can work to make the car better other than dampers, big deal. Here's a thought, let teams work on their car and develop it during the offseason. Then before the season starts have a test session run by IndyCar and equal / even out the cars. It's a nasty phrase that gets lot of people upset but it works, BOP or Ballance of Performance. GT World Challenge has proven it works.
The cars are the same, everything is equal and no variation. It was interesting to see different cars race such as Penske, Coyote, Wildcat, Eagle, and McLaren. Foyt ran a Foyt engine, there were Drake Offy's, then with ground effects there were Cosworth DFX engines while some were still running Offy's. Put a price cap on development and let's bring some innovation back to racing and then the best car/team will win.
BTW, as a suggestion to David - maybe make a preview video of 2023 Indy NXT and lower series drivers. 99% of those who watch Indycar, I'm sure, have no idea about 80% of the guys there.
Indycar just fucked up with the iracing also even Dale JNR said he cant understand why they did that. Indycar is not F1 and it seems like they want to jump into things ahead of time before they ready, Without laying a foundation first like David just said. I have found indycar so boring that i started watching the old Cart races 92,93,94 seasons and upwards. those races was crazy good. the fans where there all the seats filled and now you watch it and think what happened. This whole iracing thing made so many new young fans come to iracing to race it but also become indycar fans. I have never seen so many people angry over a move like this especially from the younger generation.
Gettin' real sick of every racing series saying they need to do a "Drive to Survive". No series can replicate the success of it, so refocus on your own racing product.
I've been watching F1 and Indycar at the same time since late 2017. I can tell you that F1 grabs my interest more because they put out better content for me to watch than Indycar with their stale social media platforms. I began to notice Indycar as an underrepresented sport in 2018, my first full year of following it.The 2018 Indy 500 is what made me take this sport seriously but not so much the other races aside from Long Beach and etc. That's always been that way for me since.
The F1 2018 game, the TV broadcast, social media, etc, made me the passionate American F1 fan I am. Drive to Survive skyrocketed my interest and it hasn't declined since. Whenever I watch a F1 race, I'm always hyped for them because of how they present themselves with the sexy glamor as you mentioned.
The build-up nor the aftermath of an Indycar race gets me as hyped and some of that you can say is how the sport's current culture is at the moment. The Indycar championship fights and finales doesn't feel like it has enough value nor importance compared to NASCAR and F1 and I felt that this past season
Indycar lacks interest for me to really have the same or similar exuberance I have for F1. No video game, lack of storylines, lack of promotion, lack of social media engagement. The sport is very isolated and that needs to change for it to grow
I understand everything you've said about gaming and social media for fan engagement, but doesn't the fact that the ACTUAL RACING in F1 is stupifyingly boring compared to IndyCar bother you?
@@MotownGuitarJoe F1, Indycar, NASCAR, IMSA, and other motorsports have great racing. What constitutes great racing with the sport you associate the most with is for you and everyone else to decide
This is a great question. I've felt that Penske only cares about the 500. So far, his ownership has been exactly what I thought. No, it's not sinking but not much is happening, and that which which is, is unnecessary from a sporting standpoint. Bigger engines and half-assed hyrbid system stuck into these cobbled up 10 year old car, which now qualifies for historic races? Yet more ovals that no one goes to?
This series needs new cars on real race circuits outside of Florida and the Rust Belt. It's not even a national series, it's largely regional. And I shouldn't find out on Sunday that a Saturday night race that no one was at ran. Honestly, I find out there are races on my Google feed after the fact, while I get non-stop NASCAR updates, even though I don't read about that series, nor have I watched a race in a decade. Does Indycar even have marketing?
I like your point of pushing personalities. I started listening to Connor Daly's Speedstreet podcast this year and hearing the interviews he does and guest he has makes me feel more connected to the sport. Indycar should definetly be pushing the podcast more kinda like NASACR does with Corey Lajoie's Stacking pennies podcast.
You need to learn to walk before you can run. What I mean is, Indycar ought to stop focusing on F1 and start to focus on Nascar instead. F1 is the football of motor racing. And no I'm not talking about that boring rugby spinoff that is trying it's hardest to invade Europe and failing miserably. F1 fans worldwide would rather watch Indycar than Nascar. So thats your target right now. Not F1.
Maybe IndyCar needs to hire Liberty Media, who own F1 these days, to give it a plan to get into social media, improve the IndyCar website, and improve the overall reach of IndyCar. I think that some of the venues that IndyCar races at need improvements for fans that attend too.
Kyle Larson was never promoted. He lives his life at local dirt tracks close to 10 months out of the year talking to real people and signing autographs. Do you think those Indy Car drivers have any interest in building a genuine fan base like that?
Yes, they are.
I prefer Indycar over F1, but a lot of times I find the F1 race broadcast so much more interesting and engaging than the one that is done on NBC for Indycar, that I will find myself watching the entire F1 race, and struggle at times to watch the entire Indycar race. I know it's good for the sports to have a major broadcaster, but NBC has terrible timing with commercial cutaways, unnecessary interviews mid-race, and going split-screen to show announcers/interviews which can just completely take you out of the action. Indycar needs to take a page out of F1's book when it comes to broadcasting a race, because it is hard to recommend the sport to an F1 fan when that is the product they put out.
Can IndyCar expand overseas? South America, Europe, Asia & Australia? That way IndyCar can look to get more international fans rather than just American fans. But of course they need to work on the sponsorship side because going overseas will be a lot more expensive.
I've been an F1 fan since the 80's and I think this year Indy Car is more watchable than F1. In F1 you're lucky if 2 teams are fighting it out, usually 1 team just steamrolls the rest of the field. It seems that races in Indy are more competitive, you can watch to the end of the race. I also think the announcers are better in IndyCar, probably because I remember Walker, Hobbs, and Varsha. IndyCar could use some improving but the races are interesting and that's the important part, right?
I believe that the biggest problem with Indycar is that the vast majority of American racing fans are primarily NASCAR fans. They are also big into the Indy 500, but could care less about the rest of the Indycar season.
I can't get through an IndyCar race. The non-stop onslaught of advertisements that break up the race just destroys it for me. Even the split screen stuff is too much. It's a tough nut to crack, but it they could get rid of that I'd try to get back into it. I also think it's important to have an online subscription to watch ad break free.
Firstly we need new cars/chassis. At least 2 manufacturers say Dallara/Lola/Glikenhaus/Ligier etc
Cars need to be low downforce: Indy 500 levels of downforce for street circuits. This will promote close racing and more passing.
Cars need to be light. 550kgs
Huge width tyres 20” rear 15” front on 15” diameter rims.
Engines: either 3 litre twin turbo crossplane crank V8 or
6 litre crossplane V8 with 3:1 bore to stroke ratio pneumatic valves and no rev limiter.
Engine life 1 per race weekend.
Gearbox: 8 speed semi automatic seamless shift. (Standardised)
Fuel: Change to E-fuel renewable gasoline (away from alcohol) this will satisfy the environmental element along with Efuels used in all road and air travel SAF.
If you built cars that fans actually enjoy to watch them people will be interested. I’m talking cars with up to 1500hp in race trim that are super light, sound amazing, are super agile, lol awesome and are just as quick as F1 cars.
Not sure about multiple car mfgs, I actually like this series for being a DRIVERS' championship with everybody having a reasonable chance (except Foyt, sigh). Low downforce - fully agree (but then F1 fangirls would ridicule even more slow lap times, who cares, frankly). Lighter cars - not going to happen for many reasons. Engines not going to happen either. One race engines would be great, I actually think that all racing series should strongly focus on individual events - the thing that people pay money to watch, btw - and not the "championships", this includes the carryover penalties too (more an F1 thing than Indycars, but just in case).
Can we finally admit that the Indycar broadcast deal is a mess. I shouldn’t need three different networks and streaming services to enjoy one sport. If Indycar wants to compete with F1 they need a streaming service like F1 TV where you get all the sessions, all the on boards on demand and race archive
Top brass has ALWAYS been a problem for the series minus RP. We need former racers to run the series not corporate people who haven’t lived the life. Maybe a marketing executive and that’s about it. And BTW Where the hell is our indycar platform game?!!
It's a pity that the "split" ended. Indy has not taken a single page from the CART playbook. It's far too insular. CCWS had gained a small foothold in some of the F1 marketplace with events in Australia (Gold Coast but the move Mar/Apr to Oct was a bit daft), Japan (Motegi), the UK (Rocko), mainland Europe and Mexico.
For F1 fans the hard things to deal with (one I like) are: that if a driver gets assistance and can get back racing its ok, ovals turn left, turn left, (although as a spectator thing the whole field can be seen), back then only one engine supplier and no manufacturer teams (still none bar maybe McLaren) - made it hard to identify with/support a team without prior knowledge.
If Indycar wants to survive it needs to become more relevant to non-US-based fans and to do that it has to bring back offshore races. Legs could be "bundled" eg UK/EU a week apart, Aus/Jap (add Malaysia) a week apart and Mexico with, say, (Argentina, Brazil or Columbia) as a pair a week apart.
Expand out of the US/Canada, demonstrate the differences - eg methanol as fuel. Ditch single tyre supplier and single chasis supplier (I think some teams make their own - Pensky?) move with the times - not so much the Petrol/Hybrid but possibly hydrogen-fueled engines as a difference to exploit.
Who are the stars of indycar? These days it's drivers from other series and no names. Back before the cart IRL split the stars were the drivers, owners, sponsors and the cars themselves. A handful of chassis makers, a few engine builders and two tire companies to choose from. Real competition, real danger, real fans.
We need 4 more races a year including 2 more ovals.
Yes 4 more races... but 4 more ovals. too many street and road already.
....and what 2-4 ovals would those be??? Most ovals are own by ISC which means a schedule date that won't compromise a NASCAR date at any particular track. Furthermore it means renting the track rather than Indycar receiving a sanctioning fee from the track. Indycar already proved this doesn't work when they rented Phoenix for three years. The fan turn out was piss poor at best all three years. Also the product on the track was a complete shit show. The fact there were few fans in the stands was the only saving grace the last year of the contract. So in short, Indycar would be in the red so deep it's a financial looser before a wheel is turned.
Penske has already stated that he's in this to make money,,,,not spend money. It's clear that Indycar fans "want" more ovals, but they DON'T GO to oval races. Fan turn out at TMS and Gateway were both jokes. Before you tell me Iowa was so great, area hotels weren't even close to selling out until the stage acts were announced only weeks before the race weekend. The stands were full of country music fans, not Indycar fans.
To continue tracks like MIS and Pocono now have PJ1 in the turns so they're pretty much write offs. 178 mph at TMS and the possibility of hitting the wall is one thing, doing the same at 230 mph+ is suicidal. So can't consider those tracks. If you don't know what PJ1 is, then you're not much of an Indycar fan.
As for Milwaukee, it's it's own worst enemy. The Wisconsin State Fair Board (otherwise known as the Wisconsin State Fair Mafia) has wanted to do away with the Milwaukee Mile for decades and turn it into a multi level parking lot. Prior CART/Indycar race promoters have been run out of town penniless as the fair board makes sure they get their cut first, no matter what. Also, Indycar has lost the local blue collar fans that once filled the infield at Milwaukee. Michael Andretti's "Indy Fest" was a fatal flaw in their promotion as they placed it in the infield for an additional fee to the race fan and NO ONE was allowed to get out to the turns to see any racing action. Everything was fenced in and only media were allowed in the turns. The local Indycar fan have learned they get a lot more bang for the buck at American Family Field just a hop skip and a jump down the road from the fair grounds.
So I ask again, what oval tracks can be added??? Before responding, google ISC owned tracks so you know those tracks are off the radar.
@@bryantdunbar3476 NASCAR should buy Indycar from Penske to make it work. NASCAR has proved it can handle IMSA well enough. The oval product has been bad since 2012 specifically because this car and various aero designs have not done as well and the pre-2012 dallara and panoz chassis in both IRL and Champ Car did on ovals.
@@scott_johnson_ no NASCAR would ruin IndyCar with stages and playoffs
@@scott_johnson_ I think I read your message right and if I do there's only one response,,,,,,Las Vegas.
When I compare Indycar to F1 the main gap I'm immediately seeing is branding. Or lack thereof on the Indycar side.
Roger got screwed in racing but a lot of the uber wealthy got even wealthier through the Covid deals that passed. I agree with David here. Roger's doing fine financially...
I was quite irritated that Indycar seemed to largely ignore the results of the big survey they did last year. Great perspective as always David.
Outside of May, when you look at the TV numbers, they hover about the same race to race. To me, that says that it’s more or less a core group of people that tune in each week. That group will be there through thick and thin. Do they have 18 races or 18 events? There is a difference between the two. Indy is an event. The rest are just races. In CART’s heyday, each race felt like something special. A season long soap opera to a point. Stories carried from face to race. They played up the speed, the technology and the danger involved. The drivers were gladiators battling in the arena of speed. That feeling doesn’t come across today. There were not drive through penalties for avoidable contact. There were moments like Mario Andretti going to victory lane in 1989 at Long Beach after Little Al punted him out of the way. That carried on to Indy and was a story line the first week of practice. My nephews consider INDYCAR low rent Formula 1 (their words not mine) and they don’t care about the better racing in INDYCAR compared to Formula 1. Substance over glitz no longer wins the day and it’s time INDYCAR figures this out.
I've been a fan of Indycar for over 50 years, but I don't know the behind the scenes workings of it. Right now only Chevy & Honda provide the engines, and it seems like they don't even want to. Last year's Indy 500 would have had more entries, except Honda would only sell 17 engines & chevy 16 engines. Toyota has said they have no interest. How can you increase car counts when engine manufacturers don't even want to be in the sport?
The problem with indycar is that it is a Championship around one race (Indy 500), the only race that matters is the indy 500, thats why is a very short Championship. CART got it right in the 90's it wast the best series even better than F1.
F1 keeps taking more market share in America while IndyCar snoozes. Roger Penske can create a new era.
At the end of the day, it's essentially a National championship and always has been. The opportunity would be to lean on it's history, unique traditions and American exceptionalism - attract the best drivers the US has to offer, make badass cars and continue to demonstrate that Indycar teams and competitors are indeed the best and what THEY do.
Indy's peak in popularity and attendance was when CART had the best drivers in the world and a race on 3 other continents.
@@ZontarDow Yes! Overseas events have a long history in Indycar, but have always been something of a showcase. And those years showed that North American drivers were as strong as anyone - which remains the case.
Dump the spec chassis and let other manufacturers take a shot at it. Swift is still around. Lola is trying to come back. Too bad Reynard's gone. Heck, even Penske had his own chassis. Same with the engines. Don't limit it to Honda and Chevrolet. Bring back more ovals like the super speedways of Michigan and Fontana, and bullrings like Phoenix and Loudon. Get Cleveland and Surfer's Paradise back on the schedule. Make it more like...............CART.
As far as the Indy 500, open up the rules engines, chassis, and aero. That's when you needed the whole month of May and see the return of one offs and privateers with real bumping.
What I believe really hurt American open wheel racing is when the tobacco and alcohol money spigot got cut off. The cubic dollars that Marlboro, Kool, and Player's threw at the sport bolstered and promoted the sport as a whole as well as the respective teams they sponsored. Gone are the iconic red and white, green and white, and blue and white race liveries.
To add to the “COVID is not an excuse” argument, look at all the crap NASCAR has done since COVID hit. Midweek races, LA Colliseum, Bristol Dirt, Pocono doubleheaders, Atlanta reconfiguration… the list goes on an on. Not all of the ideas are great and not all of them worked, but at least they’re TRYING. If anything, it feels like NASCAR has has used COVID as an opportunity to try new things, whereas IndyCar has used it as an excuse to do the same old same old.
McLaren, Juncos, and to a lesser degree Romain, Jimmie, and Bus Bros have been doing all the heavy lifting for marketing.
At first, I wasn't really sure what you meant, but as the video went on you make some very good points. The problem that IndyCar will always have is that it's not global. Perhaps they should really think about having races in different countries. The drivers are global already, but of course the teams are not. One thing that I think that Formula 1 will regret in the long term is that they seemed to favor consumer car manufacturers to be the basis for the teams. This is fine when there is technical commonality between road going cars and race cars, but that is going to be less and less true over time, and Formula 1 can't turn into Formula E. Pure race teams that can make a profit will be the future, in my opinion, and IndyCar is mostly there already. I don't know about the profitability, but that could be improved with a full on media push, and improvements to the venues for fans, so each race can attract more fans. If you look at the last U.S. Grand Prix in Austin, at the Circuit of the Americas they had over 400,000 fans over the weekend. I find it annoying that the television coverage for IndyCar is limited to mostly qualifying and the race, and sometimes qualifying isn't even aired, and I have even missed some of the races this season because there were only on streaming. I enjoy IndyCar and I enjoy Formula 1, but I like Formula 1's TV coverage, because you get to see FP1, 2 and 3, and then qualifying and then the race. You get to participate in the entire weekend, and that just doesn't happen in IndyCar.
F1 still only had 5 different winners this year despite having more races than Indy Car. And how many races did Verstappen win? 10? 11? Bor---ing!
The joke called F1 is even worse than the crash & burn derby NASCAR has become.
Re. Social media - Interesting, as I was thinking that they DID mysteriously exist somewhere within the TV firmament - but that you had to pay for it somehow.
TV coverage did exist up to a very acceptable level when Englishman Nigel Mansell had followed up his F1 World Championship by getting his new DWC in Indycars - so what happened?
I've been following Racing since the late 1950s and even raced dirt track oval and motorcycles and by far the most exciting race, a true edge of your seat race, was Indy Car's last race at Fontana with multiple lead changes every lap and hundreds of passes back in the pack. 3,4,5 wide virtually every lap. I understand the stress on the drivers but from a fan's perspective you could not top that race. Compare that with F1 where it is almost illegal to pass without using a cheat of DRS. Unfortunately Indy Car dropped the Fontana race.
Atmosphere in Toronto is fantastic