Old World Army Guide: High Elves Overview
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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Rob takes to the High Elf Realms to stride along with his knife eared pals. Watch this video to learn more about the units of the High Elves and their folk.
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Rob: You obviously don't want to be taking heavy casualties
Me: Awfully bold of you to assume I have the skill to control this
I'm so sorry x
I look each day for your videos. Old world looks to be carried by people in the community like you who build hobby excitement. Thanks for the video.
I think the key selling point you're missing about the Swordmasters is their Initiative 6 which becomes 7 with Elven Reflexes. They are able to take a charge from I4 Heavy Cav from enough distance to get the +3 Ini boost and STILL the SM will be striking simultaneously and obliterating them with WS6 S5 AP2 Cleaving Blow. Striking first and reducing the amount of damage you'll be taking in retaliation is crucial for expensive, hard-hitting yet relatively fragile elves (Priestley & co were mostly inspired by the glass cannon "fast and can dish out great dmg but can't take much back & suck at attrition" design/description of elven warriors/warfare from Poul Anderson's THE BROKEN SWORD rather than Tolkien's Noldor).
White Lions are the absolute worst of the three because of Strike Last - they will lose so many models before they can strike back and even their +1 Armour advantage isn't much better than the SM's 6++ against non-magical shooting. King's Guard and Stubborn might be their saving grace but I think Strikes Last is such an enormous handicap that they won't be enough to make up for it.
Phoenix Guard are the better "all-comers" choice with an excellent balance between dmg dealing potential and durability but they are also a bit more expensive and being only S4 can be a real problem against high T stuff (that S5 AP2 of the Swordies is a such a sweet spot in terms of general purpose dmg output) while Initiative 5 isn't as impactful as Initiative 6 when you consider that the Ini stat scales in potency like the Richter scale for earthquakes considering the most common Initiative levels of opponents.
Both SM and PG are either 1/2 (I think SM are the best overall; just like with Lions they also benefit from the +1 A spell from High Magic much more than the PG) and White Lions are absolutely the worst (unfortunately; as I've always found those lil' elvish Varangian Guard/Heraclean warriors to be quite cool and they were at their coolest during 5th Ed. with all those cool rules)
In the games I’ve played the sword masters have…. Underperformed. They basically performed as well as tomb guard.
The Phoenix Guars tho? They are fantastic. Hit hard, take hits, the martial prowess is insane as well
@@matthewmalovich64 Anecdotes like that aren't meaningless/worthless but they can be misleading/shouldn't be heavily relied upon (yet) when the sample size is low. I've also played 2(two) test games with a HE list with SM utilizing a wide frontage backed by lvl4 High Magic (SM have overall better synergy with the Fury of Khaine & Shield of Saphery than PG) and they performed exceedingly well against WoC and Empire but I wouldn't be confident in ranking their performance based on those two alone. I wonder what the tournament data / pick rates will eventually reveal from a respectable sample size... (a lot of this is also matchup dependent of course - the value of high Ini/S etc.)
I've played a bunch of games with HE (having the rules a bit early myself) and I can say there's a place for all 3 options. Swordmasters are your are an in-between - they don't need the charge like White Lions tend to, and can still blender things in combat. But they're the most brittle of the options once they get punched (watch out for chariots and shooting - recommend taking them in small-mid sized units). White Lions are the PUNCH in the army (beyond some bolt throwers/monsters). AP-2 still gives knights a 5+ save, but -3 pushes that to a 6. Add in the St4 (up to St6) and they hit harder than nearly anything in the list. They need the charge typically, though with the right magic support, they can do just fine taking a charge. Phoenix Guard are the defensive unit - I've literally sat an inch in front of an enemy unit and just pulled a "Come at me bro" - I'd rather lose a few elves to your attacks and get an extra 5-7 halberd attacks. Don't miss out on the Leadership 9/Veteran either - they're very reliable.
I think the key with HE elite infantry is knowing what role each excel at and trying to set up your combats as much as possible to take advantage. That means having extra drops to line up your battle line and having lots of chaff/magic to control the battlefield (eagles are more incredible than ever - they panic easily themselves, but they don't CAUSE panic due to having 3 unit strength). Tiranoc chariots and Ellyrian Reavers are also incredibly useful for this - the former for long-bomb chaff clearing on a cheap platform and the latter for spicy 18in march/pivot action to threaten flanks, warmachines, and wizards. The extra inch of movement we have over most other armies' chaff is key!
Just my two cents. I've been having a blast with high elves for a while now - they require more thought than some armies, but it's worth it!
@@Na_bro_leon I've been meaning to give Lions a chance by supporting them with some redundancy in defensive spells so they can take a charge and survive in enough numbers to make use of those S6 AP3 attacks. Prolly gonna be lvl4 Illusionist Archmage with Chracian Hunter (with Silvery Wand; -1 to Hit Sig spell + Doppelganger) and a Loremaster Prince (General) with a Lore Familiar and that easy to cast 7+ Battle Magic spell that gives 5++ to the unit you're in. Both in a large-ish White Lion unit for something of a Deathstar perhaps (can take challenges for the chars and Stubborn)...
Could you pair the WL with a high initiative character to clear some of the enemy front line first, thus increasing their chance to perform
Still the best overview videos out there. Easily :) I'm not planning on playing HE, but this was still very enjoyable and informative. Fair play!
Wow, thanks!
I know you question how much impetuous will mess up your ability to use a unit, but I love that GW brought some realistic command and control issues into the game, and kind of wish they would do more. It's extremely historically accurate, both for knights in the Middle Ages who were usually overly aggressive and probably because they were all standing there together in full armor were often willing to tell the king they weren't doing what he told them to do, as well as cavalry in general from the Middle Ages and into the Renaissance. Elite cavalrymen would be extremely skilled horsemen and very well trained warriors, so having 'drilled' or having high Leadership wouldn't have anything to do with it, it was a question of attitude. If you as a commander sent your cavalry over to engage the enemy, they would often smash into the first thing they saw, and you might not see them again for the rest of the day as they were running around the countryside slaying fleeing infantry. It may not be perfectly implemented here, but I hope they do more stuff like this, not less.
But it's not a realistic command and control issue. It's flat fifty-fifty that you can do nothing about. If it was a leadership check instead then it would be a genuinely engaging mechanic. You could try and keep control by keeping them nearer your general, using spells/items that help with leadership, and also your opponent could try to exploit it by using ld debuffing spells. It would be interesting! I agree with all the rest you wrote.
@@jacekay6031 And enters the "in the way" great eagle to prevent them from charging.
@@sebastiencarrieres8825 Yeah that's the best mitigation, unless your opponent can shoot down a 3W T4 no save model of course. But blocking your knights with a big bird is hardly a realistic command and control technique!
@@jacekay6031 But you aid it's a "fifty fifty you can do nothing about."
@@sebastiencarrieres8825 Yes I meant you can't do anything about the fifty fifty roll. You can't influence it with generals ld, spells/items etc like you can with similar issues like stupidity.
The Army Guide series(and this entire channel) have been brilliant. Looking forward to the Dwarfs
I second that!
I havnt been as happy hobbying in years as i have been since i sourced some High elves to paint for Old world - did not know how much i missed the game
Another great informative and concise video, Rob is crushing it with the Old World content 🔥 one thing which might be useful would be to have some quick basic list. Not for list building per se but just to help understand how much "stuff" you can actually get in an army
Interesting take on the SM / PG / LC, I had it pretty much reverse.
SM is going to be awesome at clearing the front rank before they enemy gets a chance to strike. Paired with the banner that causes terror they could be an effective center block and a real nuisance.
LC fit oddly in an army that relies on high initiative. The step-up mechanic has the potential to really cripple them before they have the chance to do anything - or they’ll be confined to fight lower tier enemy. Something that could be interesting is to pair them with a character that has a high initiative, lots of attack to potentially reduce the amount of attack they take, then have a better chance at fighting back. If someone wants to challenge that character you use one of the LC as a decoy and keep the lord to clear the front line.
I have yet to play any games with these new rules, but I still rate the White Lions on paper. Assuming you can get the maximum charge bonus, strike last doesn’t seem that bad; I think they could do some real damage as long as the get the charge off. I guess they would suffer in a protracted combat, so the other 2 units do seem more reliable in that regard
My first ever army was the high elves from the 4th edition box set. The one with the little cardboard bolt thrower 😂 boy they have changed in the past 25 years!
As a wood elf player, I’ve always been a little jealous of high elves having armour options - But damn! What is it with all super hitty elven cav being so easy to charge bait! Wildriders - Frenzy, Dragon Princes with impetuous!
cause they wanna get stuck in
@@stonem0013 it plays against the high elves being super disciplined - super elite/veteran.
One way of dealing with impeteus on dragon princes is to put a Eagle in fornt of your dragon princes to prevent them from charing, and when you want to charge bring in the eagle aswell!
This will work until someone shoots the eagle, and its a unnecessary point of extra failure to use the unit.
@@biffertson If you want flavourless units go and play AoS.
@biffertson it offsets their many strengths as a unit. Similar to frenzy - it grants more power at the price of control
I've never clicked on a video as fast in my life. High elves are bad baby
Same
Really pumped about Lothern Seaguard, got 2 Island of Blood boxes lying around + some additional ones so a brick of 23 with a BSB in it feels like a really solid core. Prince of Griffon, some flank charging swordmasters, Ellyrian Reavers to harass and that feels like a solid 1250 starting list to add more fun stuff to once everything get re-released
Both Elgi mobs reviewed before proper Dawi throng?! That goes into the book.
Your videos are hands down the best Old World content on the net, I look forward to every single one!
Do you want some real punch? Take a lvl 4 Illusion Archmage on Frostheart Phoenix, give him Ogre Blade and Lore Familiar in order to take Spectral Doppleganger spell. Enjoy those 2D6 magical automatic hits at S5, AP -2, Armour Bane (1) and Multiple Wounds (D3) which will always strike first :)
Reads illegally hard. I´m listening.
Spot on about the swordmasters. I think they way to play them is minimum size units (70-84 pts) and used as if they were a detachment to give an extra punch for your core infantry blocks. Let's see if it works out.
You really need to master the core and supporting units to gain combats with HE. That's how it has always been (except for 8th).
That's how I used them in 8th edition.
Nobles spread throughout any elite infantry units with a great weapon will be key. Making the most of strikes first/strikes last cancelling out, you get a very high initiative round 1 of combat noble at Strength 6 to make sure you can get rid of some fighting rank models when you have been charged. Help save some of your unit when they are in a sticky situation. The Chracian Noble i made with the Chracian Honour (axe with +2 strength, -3ap, strikes last) is fantastic on a strikes first character in a unit of White Lions. So turn 1 hes hitting at initiative 7 when charged and can help out the slower White Lions in defense. Not many units go before him.
But 2 attacks?
@@Krathify Nobles have 3
Great video as always! I think dragons might become the hammers of this army, supported by reliable infantry blocks that can hold the line, like spearmen with shield wall and phoenix guard.
This day just got so much better! Thanks for the High Elves video 😁❤️🤘
Wonderful video, looking forward to the character creation deep dive.
I am considering HE to represent my Araby project from AoS, which came from whfb. The idea is to mix max units to show the range of an army, the goal is to also try to represent some of what is seen from Warmaster and dreadfleet. There are three ways the army could be represented: mundane: using Bret or empire, desert nomads: WE or fantastical: He. I am leaning with HE as they allow for a wider range of fantasy things and include things like elementals from dreadfleet. The rules for the HE can also be interpreted as different fighting styles and weapon skills that allow for asf, not to mention in lore they often traded horses and goods with Araby. There is also overlap with the blade of leaping gold, which is something The Red Duke took from a duel in Araby on crusade. Though there are some hiccups with representing the units. HE have the sea guard which covers both the melee and range units.
Unit conversion:
Prince/ Arch + star dragon : Djinn + dude
Mage : sorcerer
Archers : archers
Spearmen : spear/ sword men (depends how much of sticklers people will be for wysiwyg)
Silver helms : knights/ desert riders
Pheonix guard : Royal guard
Frost Phoenix : tempest elemental
Flame Phoenix : fire elemental
Great eagle : carpet rider (sad not a shoot but oh well)
If you have any suggestions for wargear or units I’m all ears. Wondering if I taking a handmaiden to unlock sisters would be a worthwhile replace for regular archers.
Great review!
White lions taken in a small unit of 12 moving through cover can make them an absolute terror to fight. A noble with Chracian hunter and axe adds a huge buff to them, 3 x Ws6 S6 -3as attacks at I5.
Otherwise Phoenix guard are going to be pretty deadly to face
Looking forward to some long form nerdy breakdowns of all the armies in autistic detail. Keep ‘em coming!
Learning old world and seeing someone breakdown this sort of thing is nice
Another phenomenal review. I like the parts where he made me feel special. ❤
I cant believe Rob did this army write up of these pointy knife-eared bastards before the chaos dwarfs. 10/10
Swordmasters are baller. They hit before practically anything in the game and can break through armour easy with cleaving. Fury of khaine on them makes them nuts damage.
Best HE faction focus I've seen so far on YT, can't wait for the rest of the videos you mentioned. Keep up the good work!
Phoenix Guard > Swordmasters > White Lions. But I don't know if I'd even take Swordmasters right now. Phoenix Guard are auto include. They're not only more survivable than the other elite "heavy" infantry but the extra ranks makes up for any other offensive deficiencies compared to the other two, imo.
I used to use minimum sized units of them to run around to hit flanks to add damage and flank bonus. Phoenix guard on the front or side with swords hitting as well should work. Not large units as they aren't survivable enough for that.
About your proposal to put the Handmaiden into a "elite combat block to buff them up": Since she cannot have any Elven Honours, be aware she can only join Ulthuan Militia (not exactly elite), Sea Guard (who lose their best rule if she does), White Lions* (*if she is the general, which she can only be if you don't have a Prince and no Noble outside the BSB), Phoenix Guard and Sisters of Avelorn. So Phoenix Guard then.
Yeah I was thinking the same way. I also thought of maybe having her until turn 2 or 3 before combat on a Lothern Sea Guard unit to use the Horn of Isha for a sweet Volley and then move her away, but there are so many turns just to do only one trick, that is good, but not insanely good.
I’m currently writing a Saphery themed list that I suspect won’t be super effective, but should be very fun. It’s core is 2 Archmages in a block of Sword Masters, 1 running High Magic to give them Ethereal and a 5++, and the other Illusion with a good magic weapon and Lore Familiar to put out the Illusion assailment. I suspect it’s far too many eggs in one basket, but can’t wait to give it a go. Keep up the great content!
Sounds fun! Just remember that you won't be able to cast that 5++ spell once in combat (or really anything besides an assailment or range: self spell). Not a problem on your way in, but if you get into a protracted combat, you can be without some of your defense!
Very true! I’ve put wards on both the Archmages to protect them in case combat is protracted or the spell fails or is dispelled. Like I say, I very much doubt it’s going to be that good, but it should be fun to push around, and I have a friend who likes the challenge of facing weird combos like it.
It's going to be crazy fun seeing how people will build these armies, man. Thanks again, Rob! Awesome work!
People are underestimating shadow warriors I think. great stat line, the 30" range means that you are short range at 15", so hitting at 3+ even if you move, with armour bane I've found them very effective. Also tried giving a mage their honour and having him scout and then skirmish with them, scooting out of charge arc and then fireballing and stuff. Good fun.
Love this info. Keep bringing it
25:00 Ok so i should preface this with mostly i have been playing against a largely infantry bound Warriors of Chaos army.
So between the three Phoenix Guard, White Lions and Swordmasters of Hoeth, the Phoenix Guard are solid infantry units, they've served me well in games i've used them though i have found them to not do so great against monsters.
I've found the White Lions to be a bit meh with my games, the best i've got out of them is monster hunting which they are good at but they feel a bit over kill against heavy infantry and not worth the cost.
The Swordmasters however have been my go to option of these three, give them a Loremaster and they can cut through a enemies elite heavy infantry units at best at worst they will be tied down for a turn till you can charge them with other units in the flank.
Prince on a big old dragon, loads of silver helms and some dragon princes, job done
Play on your opponents side of the board - that's why I am not worried about Impetuous because my whole army is going to be charging
High elves have always been very tempting, great overview - been really enjoying the series! Had my first game with my vampire counts the other day and it was a lot of fun, already planning out future lists
Love it more of these for the core fractions please
I played my first game of Warhammer Old World (WOW? xD) last night. It was amazing. I'm really looking forward to playing more of it. I hadn't played a game like it since WHFB 7th edition more than 10 years ago so it all came flooding back to me, particularly the parts where my friends Swordmasters would chop down my skaven and I couldn't do anything about it. So here I am, preparing myself for that inevitable duel again, where High Elves slap chop all my models with Strike First as I suspect they all have again.
Great video, thanks for reading, looking forward to seeing your breakdowns on all the factions!
Looking forward to this one! Great content from you guys,look forward to more!
I'm planning on an elf army with loads of Swordmasters inc a wizard and a big unit of seaguard... just need to decide what else to put in it. Maybe bolt throwers and chariots
Great run down, really enjoying these overviews.
Great video - I love your enthusiasm and passion - it's got me excited to dust off either my old high elves or wood elves (or both why not) and give The Old World a try out. I had a soft spot for sword masters which I think was more 12 year old me thought they looked the coolest and liked the lore about them swiping arrows out the air mid flight with two handed swords rather than anything more analytical than that - that and i just think elves with axes is silly on a basic irrational/emotional level.
Best Old World content out there, by a long way. Keep up the good work.
Elven Honours are so much fun! What a great addition. Current favourites are “Shadow Stalker”, either on a Noble with the Reaver Bow (classic), but even on a mage (who hilariously even gets to have a bow of Avelorn). Glittering Robe from Illusion for a level 1 would be a good fit, or a deep-striking drain magic in your opponents face? Yes please. One could even use an Archmage and scout a vortex on the enemy lines. Spicy. “Blood of Caledor” is a good way to give a mage a nice 3+ armour save on a horse but, well, impetuous. I agree with Val and you that “Spectral Doppelganger” from Illusion suffers from the fact that mages usually aren’t good fighters. In come “Loremaster” and “Warden of Saphery”. The Loremaster for sure suffered from WHFB 8th edition, a level 1 with 1 spell is just not as good as a level 2 with 8 spells, like it used to be. You would have to waste the lore familiar to guarantee you get the Spectral Doppelganger, but suddenly you are dishing out 2D6 hits at S6 and AP-2 with strike first in addition to the 3/4 S6 AP-2 attacks he does normally. That’s devastating, The riskier version is putting “Warden of Saphery” on a mage, either also level 1 with the lore familiar or an archmage and hope to get it randomly. Now you do 2D6 S5 AP-2 hits with killing blow! Hot damn.
It's interesting, you can also mount your lvl 4 on a Star Dragon for 4+ armor save, give it the sword of might, talisman of protection, silvery wand and seed of rebirth. And you can have a meat chopper, that also has some decent resilience and is highly probably that will have the Doppelganger for 2D6 s4 AP -1 that will definitely contribute to combat resolution.
Impetous shouldn't be an issue if you place that mage as a lone character behind your line facing forward
Excellent video. This got me excited for the gaming element again
Great video! Really like these army reviews and overviews on your channel
Very well put together and presented video as ever - thanks, these are really helpful in giving us a concise rundown of what the different factions have got with a nice smattering of your own instincts about them thrown in.
I tend to find myself feeling that for my taste too many of the units are a bit too special (one or two things that mark a unit out are enough for me), but that's just modern Warhammer. It's a lot to remember and these videos will be a pretty useful reference point down the line if I can get back to playing as I hope to.
The dragon princes being impetuous, does not mean you control them 50% of the time.. if there is no target you control them 100%. If there is a target (or More then one) you have to charge on 1-3. But you can still chose the target of said charge. So its a bit More nuanced.
A skilled opponent will try to make use of this. As can you, I think ellyrian reavers and shadow warriors should be used to clear weak enemy units en screen the dragon princes from making charges you dont want.
The 2 A on the unit, its sheer impact is superb.
I mean, if I was a dragon prince, I wouldn't listen to me.
Really loving these overviews looking forward to the Dwarf one👍
Very informative video. The guy I’ll probably end up playing against the most is a dedicated HE player. I love my undead so it’s helpful to see what he can do
Put those elves in some trees and they'd be pretty cool
Always loved the swordmasters if I ever get round to high elves multiple units of them will be first on the roster!
Don't forget that HE always have some very powerful magic items to boost their characters and units with.
Great quality video mate, well done.
Nice overview! A tip for pronunciation. Chrace is like Krace and not Trace, it's i-thil-mar rather than I-thi-li-mar and I think the 'th' in Lothern is just like in 'southern' or 'northern'. Not sure about the last one though.
It's easy to miss, but white lions have move through cover and open order. On an infantry unit this could be combined to allow them to move into difficult terrain, pivot 90 degrees, and the following turn charge the enemy in their flanks. Totally negating striking last with a +4 initiative (or +5) with elven reflexes
Love these jerks, great video man, your knocking it out of the park dude.
This is the one I've been waiting for!
I also ''love'' how being impetuous doesnt seem to have any possitive effect on the unit's point cost.
These guys were my first army book back in 2008. I still have that book.
Great video thanks, will there still be a part 2?
Awesome. Loving your army overviews
I wait every day for these videos no joke
Love it - awesome work, Rob!
I've played a bunch of games with High Magic. While there are great tools there, it might struggle to really maximize Walk Between Worlds (it's best on a combat unit, but the rest of the lore doesn't itself well to casting out of combat). I've switched over to Illusion and whooo boy - a Chracian Hunter Archmage with Chracian Blade (St5, AP-3) with the doppleganger spell slaps. Throw in -1 to hit spell and surrounded by White Lions that can challenge for the mage if it's your general, and it's been nasty! (Of course with risk - even with a 5+ ward and 5+ regen, he dies fast if in a challenge). Ultimately the honours are real fun - a couple are stellar especially!
Feed me more information i love it
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Oh man, so many things!
Honours I've thoroughly enjoyed: Chracian Hunter, Warden of Saphery, and Sea Guard (the first two granting your wizard a dope weapon and the ability to join elite units, and the last to be able to put the wizard on a flying chariot - providing an armor save, +4 wounds, and SWIFTSTRIDE HEAVY CHARIOT - the only in the game!) If your mage is not the general and/or you're going to run around solo or in a skirmishing fast cav unit, Pure of Heart is the way to be immune to panic.
I've tried Shadow Stalker a few times, and while it's fun to give your shadow warriors an extra lil ASL punch in the unit, they mostly end up Fire and Fleeing their way about the board, so not the best use of the points in my experience (chariots/chaff game usually ends up being the bane of existence for these units). Annointed can also be interesting in a Phoenix Guard block, but the unit is already expensive enough that adding more to it feels like a trap.
@@Na_bro_leon A High Elf Archmage Illusionist with "The Warden of Saphery" Honour and The White Sword (or the Dragon Slaying Blade) can cast that Doppelganger spell with both Killing Blow AND the Monster Slayer effect which is even more horrendously powerful (S6 AP2 with the White Sword as well).
@@xenosophont You don't get bonus from both weapons.
@@grlmgor Killing Blow comes from the Warden Honour (not tied to any weapon) and Monster Slayer can either come from The White Sword or the Dragon Slayer Blade - whichever one you've picked...
Elves were hit with the NERF hammer HARD!
Yup. Ive been playing into chaos warriors a lot and I cant wound them. A combination of low strength and poor dice trash my "elite" units
@@tomsawyer7151 yeah evryone I’ve spoken to has the same problem it’s really sad
I bought Bretonnians, printed Chaos Dwarfs but plan to collect and play High Elves. Hopefully they're released before the end of the year.
Thx.
20 seaguards, full command, razor banner ab2, veterans, loremaster cloak. plus courage of aenarion. with stand and shoot counting in combat res. best core choice out there...
Another way of looking at that is 342 points (plus a spell) for 20 T3 5+ save models. I think Sea Guard are decent but you just might be over investing at that point.
Lets not forget about all the potential failed charges due to impetuous, as it may force you to charge while un max range of charge, but you probably wont get this on the dice. I really think they didnt think this rule out all that well.
Remember that rules forcing you to charge were automatic on all editions where the charge was a fixed amount and then in 8th edition the rule let you pass a ld test before being forced to charge precisely for the maximum range baiting reason.
12:18 the real reason you'll be taking this character is to get access to Sisters of Avelorn as a 0-1 Core unit which absolutely mogs any other HE Core unit.
Super smart point. Thanks for the input
The Handmaiden has to be your general to get the Sisters as a core unit, and she only has ld 8 so for her to be your general you can't take a Prince or a Noble in the same army. Pretty big price to pay.
@@jacekay6031 You're correct. One would assume the character version of a unit would have a higher Ld stat but it's the same Ld8 as the Sisters of Avelorn (You don't think it be like it is, but it do.). However; a HM General coupled with an Archmage on Star Dragon and mostly Ld9 frontline troops like PG and DP's plus the Panic rerolls from Valour of Ages ain't that bad of a price to pay for not having to fill your entire Core with the kind of "meh" units HE have for their Core selection. Definitely not ideal but still...
Yeah I agree. I think if you're going to try and use the Handmaiden then that's the way to do it. Hilariously there's no max on the sisters, so your core could be entirely filled by a single unit of 33 Sisters of Avelorn with a High Sister!
@@jacekay6031 You can still take a BSB since they aren't allowed to be General anyway.
The traitorous Elgi before the noble Dawi???
In the book you go!
"Lothern SEAcutter" :D
Yet another amazing video. Smashing it mate
Hear me out. You take a big unit of Seaguard. You add a handmaiden and razor banner. You pop the horn of isha the turn before you get charged. That means you get the effect when you shoot, when you do stand and shoot and when you fight the first turn. All with armour bane 2 and naval discipline
Sadly the handmaiden can join them since they require a sea guard honor’d character, and she can’t take honors. As far as the razor banner goes… very much yes, probably the best place to put it in the game
Ok very interested in a MSU of swardmasters. I think you have to play them in msu, its so hard for opponent charge them! The only question is protect them from shooting. Eagles can do the job! Thats what I hope!:)
Need a goos faction to balance all the chaos in my house. Why not point ear boyz
Character idea: archmage of shadow with the warden of saphery special rules.
Give him a magical armor and a sword of hoeth and make good use of the spectral doppelganger 2d6 st5 ap2 auto hit.
Yes big man! Been waiting for this
Great video as allways 😊 Bring on the might of Ulthuan!
To paraphrase "rolling 6's to wound makes the Sisters of Avelorne AP3". Is this a new rule where any 6's rolled to wound get an extra AP1? Thanks, Rob!
Thats what armour bane does
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Thanks, time for me to read the new rule book!
I think that the Skycutter is a missed chance: would it have been BS5 it would have been viable as a flying ballista...as it is it won't get hits on target unluckily...
P.s. I love your videos, can't wait for magic items and elven honours!!
Been waiting for this one!
Dear lord these guys are going to be a tough out.. I think the first thing I'm thinking about with every list is "What Am I Going To Do About The Damn High Elves" 😅
I don't see Impetuous being too much of an issue. If you really really don't want them to charge you can always block them with another unit at the declaration stage (just be careful because if they could possibly charge they still need to declare it!). But really you want to be charging with these guys. Almost all the time and into anything. The key is to ensure you have something supporting them (either forward scouts like Shadow Warriors to cover an exposed flank, or another cavalry unit to charge something next to them).
I really like the Sword Masters. They are the elite of elite killers. They're lack of attacks should be fine because they will be targeting enemy units that are expensive. Things like Ushabti and Sepulchral Stalkers are going to be wasted by these guys (3+ to hit and wound with no armour save will result in a large number of wounds). I think Phoenix Guard are maybe overall slightly better, but they and the White Lions have a different target profile.
Oh, and if I take a Skycutter I'm adding 2 guns; the Bolt Thrower and a Wizard!
for the impetuous Dragon princes you can put them in marching column and they can't charge lol
Rob... the "punch" is in the Star Dragon and the Lvl 4 archmage
How come? CONVINCE ME
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Need I read you the dragon's stats (you did in the video...) and remind you that it cvan have ward 5+ and regen 5+?
If I ever play high elves I'd be really tempted to go with an archmage on star dragon plus two dragon mages lmao
I am a bit outraged by the treatment of our infantries (which are really good, do not get me wrong) when compared to dwarven units honestly. The Hammerers are INSANE. I get the impression that none of HE's 3 special heavy infantries can touch them face to face. The best special infantry that has the offensive potential to go past their armour and toughness 4 (the White Lions), now even attack AFTER them (which is a paradox). Maybe now, counting that there's no more "step-up", the swordmasters would behave a little better?
Looking at things, and from previous edition experience, elves are an army that punish cowardice and indecision. You're going to lose models. Plan for losing models. Expect it. That includes characters. You've got 2-3 wounds and T3. I don't recommend spending hundreds of points on defensive charms over taking more models in the army. You'll lose elves to models that cost half to a quarter of their points model on model.
The reason elves were given always strike first in Warhammer Fantasy as an army wide special rule was because of the way combat works in older editions. You'd get charged and your infantry would just be massacred, easy to wound and with any strength on the attack you'd not have any saves, you'd need double 1's for leadership on the break test and get run down. It lead to the era of the high elf cavalry armies that didn't match the lore of the faction. Very non-cannon armies being the only real way high elves could compete, needing the heavy armor and large threat distance to be any kind of threat against most armies with all the core/special/rare infantry left at home. So in 7th they got always strikes first and now at least all that infantry gets a chance to swing.
Now being charged doesn't automatically mean you're losing on initiative, and the weapons control AP so it's not rare for the elf infantry models to get to roll an armor saves now. Plus losing combat with leadership 8-10 is very unlikely to simply flee from combat meaning they are less likely to be cut down. Plus the army wide rule for re-rolling panic tests for heavy casualties and being fled through! There are so many old high elf weak points that have been effectively been patched out. I don't think there's an army that benefits more from the new combat resolution results more than high elves. The Old World has been amazingly kind to this army compared to older editions of Warhammer Fantasy.
omg, you've not mentioned how badly High elves were trashed in this edition.
There is no evidence for that. You are suffering an emotional reaction
@@SquareBasedOldWorld their stats and special rules are objectively worse than before, hardly emotional. But sure, there's no evidence right, just showing a little lack of knowledge of 8th edition you are.
@nathanofthefranks2955 it's a new edition there's no real metric to compare them by.
Only played one HE game so far but the best combo i had on the board was the razor standard in sea guard with a character holding the reaver bow, they did lots of damage into a T4 4+ save heavy infantry unit and were my MoM. Phoenix Guard had a tough game but I think the dice spiked badly for them in their most important combat phase so probably not a fair test of them, i do agree somewhat on Swordmasters with you as a unit thats not quite killy enough for their low survivability to cosr ratio. Dragon Princes look trash to me unfortunately with impetuous, maybe small units to counter charge near a gunline? But I'd prob still pick silver helms or chariots for that just in case I want to hold back for another turn.
phoenix guard have been heavily nerfed. like trashed tbh
Just a thought on Dragon Princes and Impetuous in general..... Can we not screen them with Reavers and Eagles? Also, presumably if they are in charge range of multiple targets you can still choose who they charge? I guess the game plan as a HE player will be to make sure that there is at least one unit that you actually want to charge in range.
I'm currently trying to figure out Ripperdactyls for the Lizards. I have loads of Raptadons that I want to proxy, but yeah impetuous.....
Pretty sure the British light cav were known to be drilled and impetuous
We need a best Star Dragon builds episode! :D
well Dragon Princes are a waste of points tbh, Phoenix and Sea Guard are the way to go for Inf, Dragon and hero deffo i also use the Frost/Fire Phoenix with Archmage so 2 monsters. Chariots have performed well for me as have the Silver Helms and Reavers. The Shadows are great in ambush and as scouts and can nip in places others fear to tred haha...could go on and on but space to small, had 12 games with HE so far///love them so much!! Nice video i like the way you try and stay neutral haha.
Thinking about sword master Prince with the honour that he gets the killing blow and then armor of Calador, dragon helm and stone of rebirth 3+ armor safe 5+ ward save and 5+ regenaration safe i think he is pretty tough to crack.
Sward masters should have kept their 2 attacks and be the most hated unit in the old world XD
Tbh I do think your rating of White Lions vs Swordmasters is wrong. I think Swordmasters with their (pretty much) always striking first and Cleaving blow makes them the superior Killy unit. White Lions should have gotten Cleaving Blow to suit their "HEY YOU LARGE THING, YOU DIE" vibe and Swordmasters should have kept their extra attack. Thus the unlikely swing-back that the White Lions get would be worth more. This would have kept the niece for both (Swordmasters could take out lords and elites, White Lions take out anything tough).
But - Phoenix Guard. I do feel have actually fallen so hard. Magical attacks are everywhere and they don't have such a huge WS to make up for their T3. I can't see a real point to them when 2 units do what they do only cheaper (yes, worse - but cheaper) or with a ranged attack.