Bodybuilding Couple Have Homicidal Valentine's Day | Sally McNeil Case Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Sally McNeil?
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Me: what's a shotgun divorce?
Me a few minutes later: oh he meant that literally
When your man doesn't have a job and you're out there collecting cans to recycle you're missing a gigantic waving red flag 😨
I'd say violence from both people is a bigger red flag.
@@Catlily5 Oop! Tell ‘em!
It's sad cause people in those situations would do anything to keep the man they love, to keep up their family because they don't want to be a statistic of divorce, yet often times that's a moot point because they end up being a statistic of domestic violence.
😂
@@katelynbrown98 Yup. And these women end up being married single mothers. 😖
They are so concerned with the optics of what being a single mother looks like, that they would subject their children to unhealthy relationships, and abuse, JUST to say their kids don’t come from a broken home. When actually, they do.🙁
I adore how Dr. Grande always inserts creative puns and roasts into otherwise serious subject matter😂- it really breaks up the intensity in a fun yet respectful way. Always love hearing your thoughts and opinions, Dr! 😊
You worded that perfectly. His humor does tend to soften the heavy moments a bit. Very intelligent sense of humor.
But lbo her first husband was good to her until they got married, not until he became abusive. Love ya Dr grande
It's always nice to see the lighter side of things.
Yess I love it
I know he’s the Man! ❤😅😅
I can't help but think about their kids.
I can just imagine their fear and trauma.
Watch the documentary, they cover it as well as anyone could.
Yes, there's a doc on netflix.
@Michael Freeland weren't her kids not from him though
@@HappyDogsAndCrafts-y3qNaw they were Ray step kids.. She also had another kid with a different Man she put up for adoption.. She seemed to thrive off of drama. Some women actually despise nice guys who are drama free.. Sally seemed like she fell into that camp
The kids had an absent father, a violent step father, an enabling mother that wanted her man above all...the fact that they grew up traumatized yet seem to be doing ok today is a miracle.
The daughter ended up being abused by her child's father for 3 years (before finding the strength to leave) and the son ended up ruining his marriage due to drug abuse (before finding the courage to go to rehab): they're doing okay but their lives could've turned out SOOO MUCH BETTER if the adults around them simply behaved better.
@@TomikaKelly Vicious cycle and glad that they’re doing better
the father was absent because Sally left him and moved to the other side of the country. Is that an absent father or a father estranged by the mother? We don't know enough.
her son John Lowden got recently killed
@@happychappy8326exactly.. We just don't know.. Sally was totally unhinged and seemed to eshew having a stable relationship.
"it was not a shotgun wedding, Sally was saving that for the divorce..." 😂 savage...
His humor is great 🤣
Greatness
Yes agreed - very clever
One very sad home video shown during the Netflix doc was watching Ray get a gift from the kids labeled "Dad". And unlike numerous other stepdads who are genuinely touched by this gesture, Ray uses it to make a point that when he hits the kids with the belt as their "Dad", they no longer have the right to say no. Horrible human being.
i immigrated from a poor country to North America almost 30 years ago, this case happened in the 90s - which was when i came here
i thought i was poor and generally looked up to all white people
looking back now i realize how much poverty actually exists here, both material and mental, and not just in other places...
I was disgusted by that
just saw it, it was horrible
Agreed. Sally was someone I warmed too in the doc, quite immediately, I am happy she met another man and is now happy & catching with up with all the life she’s missed out on, I wish her & her kids all the very best in moving forwards with their lives.✨💕✨
@@Girl-101 sally choose this man. She has to take some responsibility and she certainly paid the price. The kids paid the price too.
I'm so glad you covered this! I watched it on Netflix thinking... 'I wonder what the Doc would make of this' 💭 😂
Where on Netflix?
@@keptbygrace6221 I'm in the UK - think it got its premier over the weekend. Its called Killer Sally.
@@keptbygrace6221 It's on Australia also, seems like everything I watch, next thing, there Dr. Grande doing a video on it, great minds think alike right?
Same!!!!😂
🤔❤
For almost two years, I took steroids prescribed by my doctor for an illness. One of the side effects was a drastic change in my personality, which wasn't obvious to me at the time. I'm told the steroid use by bodybuilders is much more than my prescription was, and I would imagine the anger and aggression from side effects are more intense too. Two people on steroids who didn't really like each other would be an explosive situation. I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did together.
Bodybuilders are mentally ill period. People try and hide it but it's true.
You have to have some mental illness to obsess over your body, take steroids (which have been proven to reduce life span) just so you can look bigger and more muscular (even though there is no real benefit to t his in the real world) just to go on stage in a fake tan and g string to be judged by other people.
Its sick. People who say other wise are coping.
Oh yeah, anabolic steroids are even worse than corticosteroids (Prednisone, Hydrocortisone) if you can imagine.
He had 5 different types of steroids in his system when he'd died. Insane
Roid rage.
I talk about this on a lot of true crime channels. I think steroids come i to play in a ton of domestic violence and murder cases. I took anabolic steroids in my 20’s and I can’t even express the change in my personality. I turned into a different person. Not a good person
Only one time in my life was I threatened by a woman, and that woman was a professional body builder. She was extremely aggressive. I suspect she had “roid rage”
I was threatened by several women throughout my life. Yet none of them were body builders, instead they were all Karens.
@@zacklapaglia7644
That's the worst
And Raymond didn’t? The man who weighed twice as much as she did
Aw, that's sweet to let your mom off the hook like that. You must have had only male teachers as well.. hehe But, on a serious note. This situation seems obvious, you'd have to do your best to hit her if she grabbed you, or started hitting you. Idk if you or everyone would agree, but, as I say, it seems obvious to me. So the question for me is, where do you draw the line, how do you know she is dangerous in respect to her physical capacity? What if she is a 5' nothin, 100lb street kid? Should one really let her get close and have a swing? Cz, what if it's a swipe, as in something in her hand? It's a tough issue, as gender equality continues forward, so many different issues start to come out.
Obviously, not all women are body builders, but it is just as obvious what they can achieve physically. So how did we get to this point? When it comes to gender 'roles', and physiology/bio;ogy, that is one thing, and a totally different issue, but it is easy to see how the role we play in life, male or female, greatly contributes to what we become physically, in relation to our role, the construct. In fact, I would say this is a larger factor in the physical condition we end up with. eg. A girl on a farm, active in all the operations, or a daughter to 2 marines, who grows to 6' by 12yrs, vs. a ballerina, or princessy type girl from Miami Beach, lol, Idk, but the connection is obvious, to keep it short.
Point is, if you want to be a body builder, or mma fighter, or KungFu master, and capable of defending yourself against 95% of men, that is your choice, just like it would be a wise one for men as well. But, If we are to have an equal society, should this cultural norm of men being auto-vilified, and women auto-innocent, in fights or abusive situations? We all make our choices, maybe it is the responsibility that goes with equality. If a man is within a reasonable size compared to you, then it's game on! lol Cz we even draw a line for a man on a man, right. If he's a pipsqueak, and you got the gooods, you can't beat him legit either. And no one should be hitting anyone, anyway. But that pipsqueak has to live with that fear, and feeling of deficiency, and is a victim of his choices.(even if he's not beat, he still isn't asserting authority over a stronger man) And that's exactly what is the important point for me. Women don't think like this. Most just keep the status quo of, we're women, you can't hurt us, but then assert their opinions in really disrespectful ways that a guy could never do to a guy without backlash, but they hide behind that shield. As well as their mental abuse is out of control, for the exact same reason, 'could we really hurt him as much as he hurts us?'...Umm, yeah, you could. Because the whole thing about domestic violence is the fear, and living without respite or peace. Women can inflict those things on people without violence just as easily. ... I mean, Is physical harm even the worst fate? To me, it is not. We all know the cliches of bruises heal, trust and love etc. don't always, It's very true.
The point is, it really is a construct, life. This idea highlights it perfectly. Women are just as strong and agile as men. It's right there, this woman is taller, heavier, more fit, stronger, than I am, or could ever be, and can definitely kick my ass. So why would a man never hitting a woman become a cultural thing? Don't tell me your a woman and women are naturally weaker, that's ridiculous, you choose to be weak, you choose another route to life. No species on Earth shares this imbalance. It is a choice. A string of choices creates a constructed view of the world. You could choose to be a strong developed contestant, but you don't. A man says, I'll protect you, so he accepts your construct, and can fit it with his own; 'I am strong, I have resources". And the traits that naturally develop start to be attributed to the role, i.e. things that are innate in the role, say, preparing a meal, while the man is gone hunting, they become attached to the role, and through time, masculinity and femininity develop. This all comes out of the construct of one couple, who accepted roles, and their way of life spread and was expanded on by everyone, until today, it is still happening., but there is nothing innate in what we call male and female. Again, putting biology aside. Men are not stronger, more violent, or dangerous. We have bred them to be more capable of those, and bred women to be more capable of other things. It could be a mother teaching her daughters how she learned to be deceptive and get what she wants. Obviously, intelligence, though, can overcome physical strength, this is true. So, while there is seemingly no reason for this to have developed biologically in humans, it's obvious that we 'chose' this construct, which is really just another word for culture, I can see, now.
But our exploration yielded useful results. This is further evidence confirming my assertion that, 'our faculty to choose, to decide,...'choice', is more fundamental to existence then our biology.' The metaphysical is more, it encompasses the physical. Determinism crushed again.
Peace
@@blackopal3138 Jesus, what a load of bs! Stop rambling on and inventing some new convoluted concepts, men are naturally bigger, stronger, have more muscle tissue and are more aggressive as a direct result of much higher levels of testosterone. That's an undeniable basic biology, it's repeated amongst vast majority of animals and it's essential for species survival. It's natural but it doesn't mean that human males must be destructive and abusers - that's a conscious choice. It's not a result of "breeding it in". Domestic violence is not a new phenomena, it's always been around, way more widespread and socially accepted in the past than now. It didn't have a name then, it was a matter of life.
The first shot may have been self defense but the man was on the ground when shot the second time and had no ability to advance. That means the second shot to the head (face) was murder. That shot was intended to kill and disfigure. She then has the obligation to show she has no mens Rea for her defense to be valid. She could not show this. A jury might accept one shot as reasonable if the other party is advancing but not subsequent shots.
Is there no chance he could have been advancing still? I just question it cause he was such a large guy, also it was the first shot that killed him though apparently
He could have advanced even shot once
@@jjohnsengraciesmom In court they prove he was lying on the floor when the second shot hit due to blood patterning on the inside of a lamp. Impossible had he been standing.
Loved the "Ray may have been good at lifting weights, but not at pulling his weight."
And, "When it seems obvious that the Body Building community should have selected the name Dumbbells." 😅😅
My parents owned and operated a gym for women in the 80s, until 1994. I was a child. I remember how ridiculous the women acted during those years. Steroid use was rampant. Lots and lots of fighting.
Wow
Yeah ok then
Testosterone causes aggression it's abnormal for a human to take that stuff.
There is no reason to do steroids unless you're professional.
@@jonfreeman9682 there's no reason to comment unless you're intelligent
I feel sorry for people that grow up with mental or psychlogical issues / traumas and never seek help or try to figure it out, instead they go and create a problematic marriage or relationship where they also bring kids to their already chaotic world and the circle continues 😞
i feel bad for the adults and their past struggles and mental issues and i feel bad for the kids now left to hopefully figure it out and live a healthier life 🙏🏻🦋🦋🦋
Really appreciate your comment, Stardust.
I thought the same thing: that it's a shame so many people pass along their trauma instead of working on breaking the cycles and healing.
Spot on Sal had mental problems her entire life she has a hard time excepting punishment and reality is twisted. Our parents tried to help her and Dr. Gave her medication as a teen. When she left for college she stopped and her world spiraled out of control. Her children suffer emotionally from her actions.
I just love how you nonchalantly drop your extensive firearms knowledge and expertise in some of your videos. It's a delightful touch that makes me smile everytime I hear it. Another excellently written and delivered mini dissertation Dr. Grande, bravo! 👏👏👏
Yes, it's quite amazing what information a little research will provide. BrAvO DuRh DuRh
He makes a point to elaborate on it, in numerous videos, more than is necessary to summarize the pertinent points of the case. However I don't mind explaining this to you. I totally understand that this particular element may have been a bit too nuanced for someone who communicates using terms such as "DuRh" to fully comprehend. Hope it helped!
@@SuzaWoof DuRh
@@shaunmuffoletto3760prick
I don't understand how these relationships where both people are constantly abusing the hell out of each other just.... continue the relationship when they both obviously hate each other
Often it's because the sex is really, REALLY good. Crazy in the head = crazy in the sheets.
@@derkeheath5172 gonna say the same. Angry sex then a flood of bonding hormone.
Spicy poontang is worth a great deal to many people.
Two narcissists feeding off one another.
its called trauma bond.
He needed her financial support. She was obsessed with him.
I believe that if she would have lawyered up from the beginning and not speak to police, she might have gotten away with it.
She had a very dumb lawyer
And you’d be correct. As soon as she gave that interview, her chances of being convicted went up a hundredfold.
If you are a suspect, NEVER agree to be interviewed without an attorney present. Without counsel, you are allowing the investigators to establish the narrative.
The only reason Nicole Brown Simpson, JonBenet Ramsey and Bob Crane never received justice was because the alleged murderers smartly lawyered up.
She Loved the attention
Thanks to a good justice system, she didn't
That's a lesson for all of us. Never speak to anyone without a lawyer.
This is no exaggeration… during the late 1980s, I lived in a Sacramento,CA apartment Nextdoor to a couple IDENTICAL to these two people who were also bodybuilders. Since I was a young woman, I didn’t have the courage to call the authorities when I’d hear their violent fights and what sounded like floor wrestling. My ear to the wall, they would actually punch each other and throw what sounded like weights at one another in anger. There was name calling and accusations, but now I’m second guessing whether what I’d perceived was fights, may have been sex play? There were no children living there, but it’s crazy to see this story and the associated pics because I’d have sworn they were my neighbors had this not happened in Oceanside CA
I remember when this case happened. At the time of the crime, I had a friend who dallied with body builders. After hearing stories from my friend, I vowed to stay away from body builders. The use of steroids cannot be overlooked in this case. Steroids, dysfunction- what a mess! And her kids seem so lovely!
her kids broke my heart.
Not all bodybuilders are psycho steroid junkies
body builders literally almost always fall into 1 of 2 categories: the nicest guy's you'll meet who would give you shirt off their back or roid rage freakshow who will end up murdering someone one day.
I remember one time in my gym a bodybuilder and the manager got into a fight and he kept screaming "I spend more on steroids than you make in a month" lol fucking psycho
I’ve seen people spaz on steroids before. Roid rage is a real thing.
@fidato Resource I had the misfortune of living with a bodybuilder - he was in his 50's. I never met a man nearing middle age who couldn't accept that he was now an adult. He still tried going to parties thrown by people in their 20's.
Furthermore, one day when I was making dinner he burst into the kitchen and started throwing things around, accusing me of stalking him. (I only talked to him three times since being a housemate.) The police eventually had to come down and give him a warning. Needless to say, I never wanted to be near another bodybuilder ever again. The shit they shoot into themselves clearly can't be good for them.
"Setting the bar low for Valentine's Day"....I laughed WAY harder at that than I should have. Thank you Dr. Grande. Cheers from Canada!
One thing that got me in the doc was the guy beating the kids. The son was glad he was dead. He said he was relieved. Pretty intense. I do believe her thinking it was going to be either him or her. I don't think she was in her right mind. She deserved jail time but I don't know about 25 years. Tough call.
Sons always hate's mommy boyfriend
She shot him in the face when he was already on the ground dying,that’s why she got 25 years
I think all she had to do was stand in the room and point a gun at him and wait for him to NATURALLY do what most military people are trained to do; not passively stand there and wait to get shot. As soon as he took the first step she blew out his side. She was then SOOOOO intimidated that she went into the other room, loaded another shell, APPROACHED the imminent threat to her safety, and then proceeded to blow his lower jaw off as he already lay dying on the ground (because she wanted to SUPER DUPER kill him). It was also totally ok for her to assault multiple other people because it was so wrong that she was assaulted and made to feel like the people she beat up with her own 2 hands. Bottom line: in the 21st century 2 wrongs 100% equal a right!!! She may have served 25 years but her lower jaw is still attached to her face and not mush on the carpet; so at least there is that.....
I don't know that she deserved jail time but should have been sentenced to anger management.
@@elevatedemotions4548 if they do not treat her or them well, then yes
I do think Sally killed him for jealousy reasons rather than self defense, but he was a dirt bag as well. He almost killed a man at a club by violently blinding him, and he was almost sadistic with Sally's kids. He was not innocent by any means, but Sally did indeed murder him. Still, I think it was either going to be her or him. They were both ticking time bombs.
Anabolic steroids are rarely prescribed to help aggressive people calm down and be more compassionate and understanding. It is the medicine you might prescribe to someone inflicted with meekness or rational thought.
Omg! He blinded a man?!
Saddening
blinded a man? that should carry some SERIOUS prison time
@@gangstagarf If it can be successfully argued that it was a nothing more than a self-defense move; then it convinced a prosecutor or jury not to press charges or to convict.
Steroids tend to do this
I felt so bad for those children
"The good news for them is that Sally has set the bar pretty low as to what qualifies as a good Valentine's Day." Hilarious.
Until Oscar Pistorius...
She said several times that she paid for everything and did everything to make him successful. And it was said that she loved him far more than he ever loved her. I think as long as Ray stayed, Sally was able say “He hasn’t left. He loves me the most.” And she continued to pay for everything in an attempt to give Ray a feeling of “She does so much for me. She is an amazing woman. No one else would be this good to me.” But a guy that has a woman spending everything on him does not think this way. He feels entitled. So, then it’s Valentine’s Day. She was very clear about how angry she was. “You spend it with your wife, not your wh**.” And when he was indeed LEAVING all bets were off. All that resentment for paying for everything, doing everything for him, the fighting and attacking her- she was not going to let another woman enjoy a happier relationship with him than what she got out of him. She was not going to see him just forget about her.
Absolutely spot on analysis.
Sal mooched $ from her parents. They were paying the bills. Sal spent her$ on herself. She was abusive to her children and barely cared for them.
Plus she apparently didn't give a DAMN that animal was beating her children. Beasts. Both of them.
A lot of those bodybuilders have personality issues. I know a few and all of them have agressivity and violence problems.
I really dont see how her having a dominate and aggressive personality deems her incapable of being abused physically by a spouse . Not only was he larger but he definitely outweighed her as well. She said it well in the documentary regarding the abuse..she was used to it. She was raised in abuse and often felt to never be good enough...Ray fit that exact mold for her as a partner...I dont know what kind of danger one has to be in to feel threatened by a man that chokes you until you pass out...her daughter heard the choking and stated it had happened often. Some women feel they cant get away from a man by just leaving.....also adding the fact that he disrespected her as a wife and cheated on her often. could this have been involuntary under the stress of being an abused spouse?...meaning she felt she had no other choice at this point to get away from his abuse. I dont feel the children were given an opportunity to express the abuse they themselves endured from Ray and also saw him beating / choking their mother. It is just absolutely insane to me that she served 25 years and OJ Simpson walked.........insane.
People forget that the most dangerous time for a woman is after she leaves. A lot of women endure years of abuse and statistics show that once choking happens her dying from that are really high but a lot of times it’s after they leave.
The fact your finding excuses for her is crazy. Dr.Grande no point stated that she wasnt abused.
She was.
It would be different if she was being choked, reached for a gun and shot him.
She wasnt.
She went to thew bedroom, located the shotgun, loaded it....then proceeded to confront him with it.
This is where anyone who has any logic, abused or not....uses that gun TO LEAVE.
Instead, she chose to shoot him, but him being on the ground still wasnt enough.
She then proceeded to walk back to the bedroom, expend the shell used 9which is why it was in the bedroom) reloaded, proceeded to walk back out in zero danger at this point, made sure to aim at his head, and fire.
THAT IS A MURDURER.
Not a defenseless poor woman just trying to save her life.
Thats a woman who wasnt get what she wanted and proceeded to throw a tantrum with a shotgun.
At no point does it mention her leaving....nope...she went right to the shotgun and had plenty of time they were together to leave...she didnt....abused or not, not even attempting to leave makes her 100% copable for what she did.
Should we look at all murderers, serial killers etc and look at the abuse they endured and try and act like somehow that excuses what they did???
Abuse can be a reason someone flips out...unless in a life or death situation at that moment, it can never be or should ever be an excusable reason to not be punished for their actions.
Guy was an abuser, a scumbag, but pretending she didnt have a bunch of screws loose and a bullying outlook isnt being truthful.
One of the scumbags out of the two didnt shoot the other twice with a shotgun though.
The others name was Sally, the murderer.
She should be grateful she was let out at all.
@@Spills51 I absolutely love you comment here on this whole matter!.. you put it perfectly into words!
OJ was smart, he didn't talk to police and he got great lawyers. Also I don't really think he did kill Nicole, I think he covered for their son who has since had more violent interactions with women involving knives and OJ has been non-violent since 🤷
Ray was definitely a trifling hobosexual, but Sally shot twice, reloaded the gun in a separate room, lied about this, and had an opportunity to leave or cry for help without shooting at all but didn't.
Battered or not, her life was NOT in danger when she chose to take Ray's.
"The second slug struck Ray in the face. Ray was no longer a threat at this point."
As always, well said Dr. Grande...well said.
Only to the carpet or vinyl he was staining with his blood.
Too bad it wasn't your mother
@@johnhawthorn5393 lol what? Did you respond the the wrong comment or do you just randomly go around wishing death on people’s parents?
@Rosa Petals that’s not my point. I was making light of Dr Grande’s deadpan delivery
I literally couldn’t imagine having a dumbbell thrown at me, I can hardly lift one!
Thanks for the vid, Dr. Grande!
Yes, you can, and more likely do. One litre of bottled water is the same as a one-kilogram dumbbell,
I fully support women, children & others killing their abusers (especially after they've exhausted all legal options) & don't think they should spend a day in prison for it. That's not what happened here. Ray had abused her AND her kids for years & she stayed. The difference here was he was cheating on her & it was Valentine's Day. She shot him out of a jealous rage after picking a fight and insulting his physique--his most sensitive point. He likely did choke her (not okay but nothing new either). What happened to her "plan to move to PA"? She had no plans to leave. You don't go looking for your abuser on Valentine's Day & ask who he's with if you're escaping & running for your life. Her kids are the real victims here. Both of these narcs put their drama above the interests of the kids.
just going separate ways is to difficult for some people.
LOL "he was good at pumping iron but not pulling his weight!" " it's not like she confused pumping iron with pumping lead" LOL Too funny!
Dr. Grande never disappoints with how many puns he can come up with in a single video but this one was especially good 😂
Pumping iron and pumping lead. How naughty is that?
They crack me up. Especially when he just keeps the straight face 😂🤣😅
@@camillerodriguez5161 What is important to know is was it a Rem 870 or a Mav 88?
She's guilty. She's also battered, but pursued the kill. She wasn't trying to get away as much as she was trying to prove a dominion point.
Do you mean domination?
@@wmdkitty Self-defense is only covered if you enforce the same amount of violence being put on you, and when you're clearly within the limits of danger. She literally shot him while he faced away, she literally left, and CAME back. That's not self-defense.
Creepy how she have billboards and commercials holding the same weapon she used on him
@@wmdkitty😂😂😂. Please, dear. She is a cold blood murder. Innocemt where?
This was a terribly sad story. There were both out of control. I found it really odd to hear that other woman said she was the real love of his life. A man who hits any woman cannot love another woman, that is ridiculous. She was clearly a good mother, and was dedicated to her family. She didn’t have a violent past as far as the length of her life. She became volatile when her life became volatile likely because there was no sense of control or balance. She had been a leader, and aggressive with her life choices and did the same when it came to these obstacles. The author of the book on abuse is right, woman are continually made to be evil when they finally react to their abuser. Like they took it for so long so this situation should be no different. It’s ridiculous. One of the many reasons i don’t trust the judicial branch
Clearly a good mother?? Any woman who puts her children in harms way just to be with a man is not a good mother
IRay hit Sally but it was after she was agressive with him 1st. She did the same with oir parents and older siblings. Fellow soldiers and in prison as well. But in her mind its never her fault.
“It’s not like she confused pumping iron with pumping lead”💀💀💀
Thank you so much for taking my request, Dr. Grande!❤
'Don't shoot the messenger' could be altered to 'Don't beat up the postman' in this case
Thank you Dr Grande, how can I resist this headline?
Thanks again for sharing another interesting crime case with us, Dr. Grande. Clearly, the title of this episode shouldn't have been "Mens sana in corpore sano!" Sally clearly had a violent streak in her makeup her entire life and resorted to inflicting pain on others if she felt threatened or was crossed (example: using her rings like brass knuckles). She was clearly NOT in danger from her second husband when she killed him in a rather cool, calm and collected manner. She also had no sense of humor regarding her situation since she really could have left him at any time and it was he who would be the worse for it. On the other hand, this time she took her "'Til death do us part" vows seriously and in her twisted mind could only be free of her husband if he were dead. That they were both prone to violence did NOT make her a "battered wife."
Thank you Dr. Grande. Just saw this show over the weekend, I really feel the for the children, they seemed to be okay now but their upbringing was bad and abusive. I'm conflicted about this story but an excellent pun on "dumbbells".
I dont understand how someone can assault multiple people and not be charged with something
Military culture.
@@Nylak-Otter i feel you but a postal worker? A fellow bodybuilding competitor?
if he was, he would be alive today.
@@chadwarden593 I mean, there's literally a term "going postal" to refer to suddenly going nuts and killing everyone, and bodybuilders aren't generally known for their patient and kind souls when they're roid-addled and could kill a horse on accident.
I was on steroids while I was dying of organ failure to reduce inflammation, and it made me want to maul someone, and I'm 5'1 and weigh 100 lbs and was mostly dead. I'm scrappy and have teeth, I figured I could get it done somehow.
@@Nylak-Otter yeah i understand wanting to beat ass but when u do...cops arrest you, i cant go around fighting people without police being involved at some point
Very interesting! Steroids are terribly dangerous not only to the person taking them, but for those around them. This was a new story for me, thanks for sharing 😊
@Jefferson Morant negative rizz
Ah the old self defense excuse. Odd how there's always time to find and/or reload the weapons. Sounds like typical jealousy, greed, lust, ego. Thanks Dr G😊💛💛
wow
greed? she was the breadwinner, he was a pos and abused her and her kids for years. Get your facts straight.
@@moonboot9751 I listed several things, talking about all murder cases. ASK TO CLARIFY BEFORE U ATTACK OR CRITICIZE moonie
Dr G you are on your A game in this one ❤️ and this took some heavy lifting 😂
Ace comment 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I think if Sally never met Ray, she would have never went to jail
She loved her children and I hope time heals those wounds
She would've met another "Ray" by any other name. There's plenty of them out there, and a woman pulled by her sexual attraction to them will always find them in spades. Anyone can birth and care for children; as it is Darwinian to do so.
No, not everyone can birth and care for children. That's a pretty ignorant comment.
@@laurenjwolf My ex wife did. But, when she was ready to relive her teen years and being sexually wild, she readily gave up our children to me; and I don't think she lost any sleep over it. I still have a mostly functional relationship with my ex wife. She has remarried 5 times (cheating on all of them), while I remarried once and stayed that way now for 22 years. My children's step mom cared for our children and put one through college (my son didn't want to attend college).
An animal's natural instict, (see "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins) is to procreate offspring that will produce more children. It's not that difficult a concept. Some mothers kill their children and many of them murder them in their wombs (this is anti-Darwinian of course)
Did you miss the part where she beat up a postal worker? Or that she tried to maim a female body builder during a competition? She's going to be back in jail soon enough.
Not everyone who gets into fights means they are bad people she just defends herself that way because she was abused her whole life. Give the damn lady a break.
At first I was like “Aw what a cute couple in the thumbnail” then I remembered this is Dr Grande’s channel
Lol!... I know really....I too...what a cute couple those to guys are!...
Wohoooo an all new video, now I can pretend to work and watch some Dr grande @ the office 😆
Haha don't get caught!
I mean, Sally gets a good score for respecting the Double Tap rule when you want to make sure the problem doesn't come back, but loses points for execution due to failing to clean up the evidence.
She was so close.
I read this comment before I watched the video. I'm about 34 seconds in and I'm like "this had got to be a good one.
It would have been so much worse if she'd have tried to hide it. I give her props for ringing them straight away & owning up to what she did
Thank you, Doctor Grande --You are much appreciated !!!
Your first descrption of "for" her guilty verdict is spot on. She was pissed he was cheating. She was also getting ready to go down to the bar to see if he was with another woman which she would've attempted to beat her ass.
The fact that Sally built such an impressive body, the wrestling classes where she would 'win' over men, the way she provided for her kids, her home and for her pimp, her degree of independence and mental strength to do all that and keep training, show how scared she really was inside from her abusive step father and how lonely she was when her dad left them.
She reenacted her childhood through a divorce first and then killed her step father via killing her second husband. She took revange twice but on different subjects, while trying to protect her kids.
Amazing analysis
@@mcjucy9808Did Sally always have a curvy backside?
The world stood still for a second before he dropped the dumbbells one-liner 😄
Thanks Doc. This story reminds me of how serious the steroid situation was during those years, very raw and aggressive. Appreciate your work as always, love ya🐈🐾🐾
This is going to be good. Thank you Dr. Grande! 👏 👏
Sally Connor - when the terminator movie was taken to heart
A 1980s VCR could be a deadly weapon.
Love the consistant posting Dr. Grande!! As an interesting side-note to the analysis of Sally's court answers, Military service members are NOT allowed to serve jury duty. The law says that military thinking is to, "Black and white with no grey areas." This is very true. As a veteran I had to wait for several hours in jury duty selection in Phoenix in 2021 until they discovered that I am prior service and sent me on my way.
@@kramalerav Google it, I'm not doing your homework FOR you as you didn't pay me. While you're at it, Google that in the 30's-40's Law was made stating NO actor or actress may give testimony in court due to the FACT that their employment is 'faking', representing what is not Real with absolution.
@@reachingcoldmountainbeforeyou very interesting
I so appreciate your analysis. After watching any kind of documentary I always look forward to your take on the subject. Thanks Dr. Grande!
“When two narcissist collide” should be the title!
In Relationship like this, usually one of them is a psychopath. And they are the one who kills.
Gee, I laugh so hard at the juxtaposition of Dr Grande's serious approach to serious topics and his brilliant twist of the English language to point out some obviously bizarre concepts regarding the situation! Just a joy and a delight to watch these videos!!! Can help but write a comment. They are just that good!!!
Ultimately we see it time and time again - don't spend your life building up a man. They don't appreciate you and once they succeed they will dump you. 20% of male partners leave their spouse when she gets ill because he no longer gets anything from her. When she needs him the most, he's not there. Save yourself from the life Sally had and just focus on yourself.
Wow, I remember this in the news when I lived in San Diego in the mid-90s.
Omg thanks for covering this!! Literally just finished watching the show and super curious what your thoughts are.
Im so glad Sally got out of jail and was able to find work and remarry. Cheating spouses that don't work suck! Sally was at her wits end!
Or she could have left the situation, without killing anyone. Cheating and not working, is not a reason to kill.
Hello Dr Grande! Love your videos. Can you analyze the case of Lucy Letby who's currently on trial here in England for allegedly murdering 7 babies in the hospital she worked as a nurse? I think there's also 15 charges of attempted murder. There's good coverage of the trial on the channel 'crime scene 2 courtroom'. Would love to hear your take on it, thanks!
“It was not a shotgun wedding, sally was saving that for the divorce” oml😭
i can’t even handle the albuterol treatments im supposed to be doing;
about 15 minor in i start feeling extremely irritable, anxious, and really on edge. By 20 minutes im shaking and usually end up stopping bc I hate the way it makes me feel, i get shaky, and im usually ready to yell at the innocent nurse for absolutely no reason…my brain can’t even comprehend how one could even function on three different anabolic steroids 🤯
Same here!
I love your humor!
Hello Dr. Grande. That was another great video into the relationship between Sally and Ray. I also watched the Netflix video and found it very interesting. One thing that stood out to me with Sally’s refusal to answer the question of the harm that she put her children in going to Tijuana to buy steroids. She stated that would make her look like a bad mom and she wouldn’t comment. I think that her decision to take her children with her was a very bad idea. I don’t know if that would make her a bad mother. Could you please comment on that? Also, when you refer to “concrete thinking” is that the same thing as all or nothing thinking? Thank you very much.
She said she wasn’t proud of taking them with her? All she did was avoid details because she was ashamed of it. She was buying steroids for ray. He couldn’t afford them in the US
@@garnetgoddess2059 She let Ray physically abuse her children on multiple occasions. They were clearly traumatized. Her son wrote her a letter saying he didn’t want her around his child. I would think that has more to do with her concrete thinking. It will be interesting to see what the good doctor has to say.
@@mp1201 or a classic trauma bond where your relationship to the abuser takes precedent. Concrete thinking wouldn’t make sense when she was aware enough to know she was harming her children by taking them to Tijuana. She had a lot of shame and guilt she was just unable to leave due to the trauma bond. It’s very common to see that. I worked as a victims advocate for years. Concrete thinking people show no duality like she did. She knew she was in the wrong. Her son even stated he wanted to see her again. Of course you’ll resent your mother for not leaving but she killed him for herself and them. Her son felt relief he was dead. Her daughter entered a similar relationship and she even said she finally understood why her mom struggled to walk away. It’s a chemical addiction in the brain that’s formed by the abuser.
@@garnetgoddess2059 Thank you for clarifying why Sally reacted the way she did with regards to taking her kids to Tijuana. I thought concrete thinking was along the same lines of Cluster B personality disorder. Specifically, the all or nothing thinking. Thank you again.
Hi Dr. Grande. Too bad Sally wasn't the comic character in Charles Schultz's PEANUTS. They both seemed to be totally psychonarcs=no feelings for anyone but themselves. I pray🙏 her kids are OK & don't have to relive those terrible nightmares ever again in their lives. Peace & hope your evening goes well each & everyday, love, Janine Smiley ✌👍🙂😀🤩😎😍🆒️💯❕❗⌚🛋👣👀💛💙🏡🚗🚘
This was a really strange case. After the documentary on Netflix, I was just disappointed the children seemed to suffer from the cycle as well. Thanks for the analysis videos as always.
They really did! They seemed so traumatized
This case was absolutely intriguing.Thanks for covering it. Love you and love your sense of humour. Keep up the good work and take care.
Thanks for doing this case, I know someone suggested it yesterday but this is my first time hearing about it. Sounds like they both had explosive rage, against each other & others.
I have no doubt their relationship was full of DV from both sides. I don't believe she killed him out of fear, I believe It was pure rage. The second shot to his face proves that she was no longer in "danger" just full of anger. I feel bad for the kids, having to live with those two, witnessing the DV and the murder. I hope they are doing well and broke the cycle of DV they were forced to live with. I also wonder if they have a relationship with her?
Those kids were put through a lot...
They do have a relationship with her. They said their mother was in fact the victim. Both of her kids were always on her side. He was a monster. She was no saint but he had to beat them? Rarely does a narc mom love her kids and I saw she loved hers immensely. She was only ever violent with him and his side pieces and to me that’s understandable especially being abused financially and physically like she was.
@@garnetgoddess2059 what would be understandable would be to leave him.
@@garnetgoddess2059 thank you for the update on the kids. 🙂
@@Nevermore694 yeah that’s what anyone says when they unfamiliar with how abusers trauma bond victims to them. Her own daughter was in an abusive relationship and said she finally understood how her mom felt
@@garnetgoddess2059 yeah, she learned to be in an abusive relationship from her mother…I have a full understanding of abusive relationships. When a mother stays in a relationship with an abuser, she is also abusing her child by exposing them to abuse. There is nothing strong or admirable about staying in an abusive relationship or becoming violent yourself in retaliation.
personally, team Sally. Ray had it coming with his egoistic abusive ways. You can hear the pain in the kids voices. I feel so bad for that whole family. Ray was honestly a pathetic human being and his two buddys defending him really didn’t prove much to me.
Exactly his steroid selling buddy who excused his friends cheating. I still can’t wrap my mind around how idiotic his friend sounded when he said sally insisted he stay over longer since it kept the peace but she wasn’t afraid of ray? She wasn’t abused by him but begged others to stay around. He even mentioned you had to speak to ray a particular way or he’d lose his temper. Ray was also never pleased with his body and had a major inferiority complex
@@garnetgoddess2059 exactly, the friend confirmed my opinion of Ray. His two steroid taking friends made him look even worse. And when the friend tried to play the race card at the end 🤦🏼♀️ I lost it almost.
Theres actually people who are defending him, stating that she was abusive and had anger issues. The woman was half the size of Ray, she can’t hurt him, even if she wanted to. If he didn’t like her so much, he could have left but he stayed because she was making all the money!
The kids both said she was the victim, period. They both looked traumatized every time they had to mention Ray. I wish the son was allowed on the stand. I wish she didn’t have to serve 25 years
@@emilybraverman4299 me too the son and daughter both knew what she had to endure. She was made to go to Mexico to support his steroid habit. Also it’s common for narc to find friends who enable them and that’s exactly what his buds did. Her friend was the only one to call her out when she saw bruises all over. It’s funny how she confided in in person because Of shame and protecting her abuser yet all his buds know of her “issues” but the fact she was paying his way and that’s why he was using her. He did an excellent job smearing her
“Dumbbells” 😂😂😂😂 thanks for the chuckle: I needed it today!!
Happy Monday everyone! ✌️💛✌️
Tyvm Dr. Grande! Bravo! 👏👏👏👏
Hope everyone has a great week. 💐
@@bthomson Ty! 😄😄Wishing you & everyone a very safe & happy week as well! 💖
Here we go! It’s always Grande time. Thanks for all the great vids, Grande. I can’t wait to hear about this case.
She shot him in the gut with slug from a 12 gauge shotgun and according to her he kept coming at her. That blast should have destroyed his abdomen and maybe took out his spine but he kept coming. Then she shot him in the face with the shotgun; that should have taken his head off but it didn't. I never knew that 'roids could turn someone into the Terminator.
Thanks for your analysis, Dr. Grande!
Very interesting case indeed. Anabolic steroids have not yet been described as causing restless aggressive people to calm down emotionally.
The prosecutor wasn't interested in the truth only in getting a guilty verdict. I suppose that's his job, but he didn't want to know or understand anything about domestic violence.
Is not domestic violence when you are equally violent.
I wonder if traveling female body builders/wrestlers is common? Years ago, while on vacation with my family, we were at an Amish restaurant where people are sat at tables “family style”. One of the couples sat at our table was Nicole Bass and her husband. I wasn’t familiar with her but my kids were (she was a body builder and wrestler). Let me tell you, it was an experience I’ll never forgot.
When we got home, I looked her up and found her website. One of the things offered was “private wrestling sessions”. It said something like you haven’t lived until Nicole has gotten you is a leg-scissor headlock.
She was wrestling people in bed
Some do it but its a minority and it was more popular in the 90s and 2000s.
When I saw the documentary I was convinced her deceased partner was a narc. His own close friends acknowledged his his short temper and how he had many affairs and didn’t seem to love her like she did him. I found it odd how he wanted to leave according to his friends but continually stayed allowing her to find his career. He was so arrogant and thought his career was more important. I find it a situation where he abused her. He constantly had affairs and other supply why he used her for pay his way. He never intended on leaving he was planning to keep leeching off her as long as she’d stay in line while he cheated. The home video of him mentioning be has authority to spank her kids is chilling. I don’t get how she was some crazy person to the media when ray abused her kids and she managed to never be aggressive toward them. Her many male clients saw her as completely sane and kind. I see her as an abuse
Victim tired of his cheating and all her outbursts in front of others was her losing grip on her life. The narc rarely lets anyone see a thing while the victim falls apart very publicly. Sally was just stereotyped because of her appearance and being a former marine. She isn’t very emotional when she discussed anything. That’s merely her demeanor. I find she was a mother pushed too far.
She also never cheated and narcs always have rotating supply. I don’t find her to be narcissistic at all. She also loved her children and they never saw her as a narc. A narc always treats one child as a golden child and scapegoats the other. I don’t find it odd both kids were in alignment with their mom as they were the ones in the home. Not rays friends seeing a glimpse of her outbursts from the abuse she enduring behind close doors. Her violence toward other women was always perpetuated by rays cheating. He made sure to flaunt his women or the notion something may be going on in the form of mind games in front of her to make sure violence ensued and he could further push the agenda she was crazy. She was absolutely suffering from battered women syndrome. He didn’t love her and continued to use her. A narc falls out of love the minute you aren’t of use to them or they find better supply which ray did. Sally never sought other supply and even found a healthy relationship after being released from jail. I found it very odd they used the testimony of his side piece like she isn’t being manipulated to believe his side of things. The side piece was aware he was married and has no ground to stand on
I agree with you 100%. Sally would have never killed if she wasn’t being abused the way she was. She is not a threat to the greater society. She is off the roids and done with abusive men.
@@garnetgoddess2059 if you watch closely in the police station when sally is saying good bye to her children she doesn’t really pay attention to her son she’s just hugging and kissing her daughter. Also the children were never together in the interview in the docu serie
Imo there has been a lot of triangulation
Signed a scapegoat
@@N0N4M30 her son wanted him dead. She was consoling her daughter because she was the one more emotionally affected. She’s the one who cried
@@garnetgoddess2059 her son actually mentioned that it was a relief when he found out Ray was dead.
I’m quite proud of my one-liners, but I don’t know how you do it!!! 😂
Pumping iron… Pumping lead… 👏 👏 👏 👏
Another one perfectly executed by DR .G who never misses and never seems to run out of ammunition!
I like the deadpan Valentine’s Day and pumping iron jokes sprinkled in 🤣
You are on a roll tonight with this one shotgun wedding and dumbbells I see it coming the doctor grande show live from the desilu studios
It’s interesting how many sociopaths claim people around them were bad growing up, but you have no idea if they’re lying.
Believe them. That’s why they became sociopaths. Sociopaths hardly grow up in good house holds
Sal is lying i grew up in the same house as her. Our parents were hard working middle class people. Sal had a typical wg life. She was always making bad choices & getting caught with guys then she would be punished. But would want a total pitty party from us siblings, which she never got.
@@drknow1997 this simply isn’t true.
@@teddyjackson1902 I used the term hardly.
I was listening to this quiet and intently with straight face... up until the dumbbells joke. Never stop Dr. Grande.
This doc is always spot on! Love the dry humor.
So they met on Valentine's Day and she ended it on Valentine's Day.
And her trial started that day.
Odd.
Being a jerk doesn’t justify murder. I agree w 2nd degree murder verdict. What is the impact of steroids on cognitive processes? Do the effects differ between men and women? The case… slightly… reminds me of Betty Broderick. She also was convicted on a 2nd degree murder charge. Really interesting presentation. Thanks!
She said " if I would have planned this I wouldn't have done a day In jail " I think she did plan it but him saying he was leaving her for Marianne she said F the plan
Two narcissists in a relationship. That explains it. Analysis complete.
She didn't strike me as a narcissist at all. More likely, she has some borderline characteristics. A narcissistic man and a borderline woman, a common toxic relationship pattern.
@@magdam8290 exactly
@@magdam8290she is a psychopath here. No remorse, no pain that is not about her own.
"Dumbells "😅🤣🤣
I can’t believe I just heard Dr Grande say the word “shmoes” 😂
Yess king go off
Sorry been out of mobile range .What a toxic relationship. Steroids will make people aggressive and angry , it sure happen in this relationship. Shooting him twice sounds like murder too me. Thank you Dr Grande. Brilliant analysis, sad outcome and informative topic.
Been married 45 years and we have never even yelled at each other.
The evidence in the documentary sort of proved that she shot him once, he went down and she came back and shot him in the face while he lay on the floor. Ray may have been violent towards her at some point, but she was not defending herself, there was no battered woman syndrome that kept her in the relationship, and it was a cold-blooded murder.
Her lawyer who worked with many domestic violence victims said she fit the bill as well as a psychologist who diagnosed her as a battered woman?
He was cooking when she shot him? That doesn't sound as if her life was in danger. He may have been abusive and a cheater but so was she. She shot him out of jealousy because he was having an affair, which didn't give her carte blanche to kill the guy. I don't understand why anyone would want to be a body builder to that extent. I personally find it unattractive on both men and women.