THIS WAS A TOTALLY UNNECESSARY SERVICE CALL
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- Опубликовано: 25 янв 2023
- This service call could have been prevented but instead the customer chose to skip the preventive maintenance and the result was the murder of this compressor.
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My day job is computer security and these types of failures remind me a lot of an unfortunately common attitude I've seen over the last ten years, where clients just want a checkbox exercise that says someone looked at it and aren't interested in investing any time or money into upfront preventative work. The irony is that they always end up spending more down the line because they have to go back and jerry-rig fixes and spend way more time and money fighting avoidable problems. Different industry, same deal.
Just about every industry experiences this. Automotive mechanics. Plumbers. Electricians. Healthcare.
@@JV-pu8kx yeah. to the point that even the workers got that mentality ... "it's for a customer only, so i can slack off" and those were the people that should teach me stuff (carpentry apprentice in germany at the time) and i learned something: not like this :D
I actually work in a similar IT industry where account security and permissions issues are getting completely ignored. It’s not just customer data at play here, there’s records bound by law to be safeguarded. It’s a super f*cked up situation.
We have the man hours to handle it but management doesn’t understand nor care about it. They have no experience with system/user security and their concept seems to be “well no one has told us it’s been breached, so we’re good right?”. WTF. All I can do is keep reporting my concerns in detail to maintain a paper trail showing I’m aware and not neglecting the obvious issues.
This is BY FAR the BEST HVAC RUclips page I’ve seen! From start to finish you get an in depth look at a service call. You get detailed diagnosis and troubleshooting. You even took apart the compressor and inspected it. As an HVAC tech myself I enjoy your videos. This page is GOATED 🐐
Training videos for his own techs.
Thanks for the nice words bud!! I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on RUclips come over and check it out ruclips.net/user/liveG2ksviK8zDc
The firmware in the controller really should have considered the temp sensor faulty given the value it was reading. It could have gone into lockout and thrown a code and perhaps saved the compressor.
It's annoying when lack of maintenance becomes an emergency on the weekend. It's like all that money you "saved" not doing a quarterly pm just got blown up with emergency service and parts that would probably still be fine if the sensor was noticed during a PM
100% agreed
@@HVACRVIDEOS by the way Chris, I know you don't have time to watch all those day time soap operas again? But you still have asshole written on your forehead again. Love you buddy, you be safe out there.
Regarding that case heater, it's purely resistive, so you can just do P=IV so 40W / 240V = 0.166A, then R=V/I, so 240V / 0.166A = 1440Ω, which means your resistance reading was spot on.
Thought of that as well. Then thought we never really do those equations in the field but actually could be useful
Even faster : P=V²/R, or in this case R=V²/P
@@moteuteu yeah but I find it way easier to just remember ohm's law and the power equation.
Agreed you can argue with Ohm's law and Mass
Correction math accidentally hit send before immediately correcting oopsie it happens
Love the autopsy! Be proud that you are educating many techs with your channel. So glad I found it!
To know what resistance the belly band heater should be, it said 40 watts at 240v. It is a purely resistance device basically:
P=I*V, or I=P/V = 40w/240v = rated current (i) would be 0.166A.
Ohm's law R = V/I = 240v/0.166amps = 1.445 kOhms.
That is exactly what you measured with your meter for resistance, so it's good electrically.
If you were checking amps draw, need to remember you are at 208v at that location, so
I = V/R = 208v/1.445 kOhms = 0.144 amps. (which is also exactly what you measured at 0.28 amps with 2 wraps of wire)
19:54 it’s always important to be rubbing with the rubber haha
I'm loving the compressor postmortem tear down, even if you're not a mfgr engineer. We don't have any other data besides your hypothesis to explain these things. And, it's a great dissection not many get to witness.
Nice video. I have pioneer engineering and construction. I teach commercial refrigeration and hvac to my crew in the morning before work. I have been in the industry since 1992. I appreciate your videos. I send them to my crew from time to time.
It's important to teach and help carry on years of knowledge.
Good job.
Your video timing is always divine. Just had a compressor leaking from a rust spot in its head at the suction line. Didn’t realize that was an indication of flood back. Replacing the compressor this afternoon. I like to think I would have found if it was flooding back but now I’ll DEFINITELY put it on the radar. Thanks for another great lesson Chris!!!
Hey at least it helped or potentially help someone I'm sure that this video will help someone down the road.
Not a technician but this stuff does help me with things and knowing more about troubleshooting and much more and it's just interesting how things can go and what you might learn even if it's not your field you're still able to learn from different aspects of things.
I've seen a few bad compressor us on Old frigerators.
Close to where I live they have mini splits and the other units of the larger condenser outdoor units all heat pumps as well.
Can't think of a brand name but apparently these are known to have problems I've heard about a lot of these bite the dust.
There's one even if you're quite for a way it sounds like a heavy duty vehicle of some sort or even some types of heavy equipment.
That compressor is clearly on the way out the sound is like the sound of surging and it sounds like is struggling so hard it sounds like it might go anytime.
I was actually one time going for a walk one of the units had blown in Sterling bejeebers out of me!
Pretty sure what it was the electrical connection at the compressor letgo possibly electrical fault.
Definitely would startle anyone.
I think there was one of those doing something similar in one the videos as well!
There was a huge record clearly something let loose!
She let go good I can do you that
Where are used to live even though an apartment maintenance text there was having problems with the unit all the time.
They realized I knew what I was doing was able to help make sure that everything was running right.
Was an R12 system unfortunately not only that it was old and well decrepit the outdoor unit was basically completely shot!
Leaking refrigerant for sure topped up several times!
And I'd heard they had had plenty of problems before I moved in.
They actually made it so that I can easily get to the Lauren set by just moving some insulation to just check to see if it's operating properly.
When they realize I was able to check.
Said we need to have service calls as much for maintenance.
Also generally they would have maintenance change filters however if they realize people could take care of this for themselves would just either have filters available at the office or they doing something else bringing extra the people extra filters.
First thing I did was have a digital thermostat installed it was so badly installed the Old Mercury switch one it was so out of level there is no way to even have an accurate thermostat by any means.
The melting was off by several degrees as well as the Box wasn't even leveling the first place doesn't help that you can't actually put that one level within the adjustment range!
What were they thinking putting that in.
Not only that later on bypassed the float for the condensate drain.
The system was never properly installed one the maintenance text actually read it that is what actually works properly or at least as much as it could.
Helped a little but not much the bottom panel that was meant to be removed in that top of insulation was still in place.
Originally a filter within the utility closet door.
It's so much restriction the way it was installed was pulling air into a small gap between a board holding up the indoor unit.
There was just a small gap between that and the door.
So much so that it would pull the door shut just because of the airflow.
Even though plenty of room in the door vent return air goes to show how badly things were done.
It did make quite a bit of difference but not enough to overcome the inadequacies of the install and the conditions of the rest of the HVAC system.
It was just pitiful and it was a slum there's well unfortunately.
Almost everything was online listed as Aslam and slumlord and just about everything you can think of wrong every one of the boxes checkmark checkmark checkmark rinse repeat
Bad sensors that go unaddressed are equipment killers, good preventative maintenance will prevent that. Great video chris
That sharp and metallic sound from the compressor told me immediately that there is some significant play somewhere in there.
I was somehow expecting to the compressor to have a failed crank bearing or even a bent connecting rod after trying to compress some stuff that is not compressible, but apparently the reed gave up first and it was just the top end of the connecting rod which got busted.
The piston with wrist pin play might have done some extra hammering against the valve plate after the initial event.
I am learning new things from your videos. To me this seemed first like bearings coming to a seize and braking the compressor motor that way but like you said it was more like a hydrolock event with the liquid refrigerant.
I am working in IT, have no clue about all this but I love watching your videos. Interesting until the end. I love your approach of really diagnosing things and looking at the big picture instead of just putting 'band aid' on and not actually fixing an issue, rather prolonging the 'failing state of a system'. There are so many parallels to IT systems, it's fascinating. Thank you for making these videos and enabling people from all trades just have a glance into this world.
There's nothing cooler than a satisfied box
IMO, this is one of your best video.
Great trouble shooting the floodback / ke2 issue and headpressure valve all together. I love doing these kind of calls.. but yeah not on Saturday "off" .
Great work!
Thanks so much for the nice words bud!!
Great autopsy! I'm more of a car guy (hobbyist anyway, retail by day, wanting to get into HVACR), but some of the engine knowledge carries over to a piston compressor. Hearing it run was akin to hearing an engine about ready to seize, and seeing those skirts on the pistons just confirmed it was ready to let go (or.. not let go.. ever again).
About damn time we get a long video!!!! 😂 Got home early today now I got you up on my 80inch! 💪
3:52 - "Smell my fingers." 😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣
Sorry. I had to do it. 😔
The whole time I been in the business never seen a compressor opened up that was awesome to see what happened I like the way you explained everything I learned alot I really enjoy your videos
finally a long video without long outro! kudos!
One of your best videos yet. Really enjoyed this one. Nice job on the compressor teardown, too. It was weird how the compressor at the beginning of the video suddenly started bogging down. 👍
The black oil is from the aluminum powder from the rod end and wrist pin journals. The piston and rod failure is due to the broken discharge reed valve. The broken valve allows constant discharge pressure on top of the piston, this constant pressure doesn't allow oil into the top of the piston pin journal and bottom of the rod journal. Normally pressure is relived on the top of the piston on down stroke and oil circulates around the wrist pin. This failure occurs over several months of a lack of lubrication I have seen as much as an 1" of wear between the rod and piston on larger compressors.
I finished it. I am assuming that the combination of flooding back and the crankcase heater being dropped at the bottom of the compressor, killed it. Great video. Thank you.
I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on RUclips come over and check it out ruclips.net/user/liveG2ksviK8zDc
Definitely heard that compressor slow down briefly on the phone microphone. Strange problem for a good Copeland, I figured you would find the cause of the failure. Good you caught it in time before it burnt up and contaminated the whole system. Excellent showing the disassembled compressor. Definitely liquid coming back and lack of lubrication killed that thing. Nice quality video. 👍🏻
Fella I went to a big acetylene bottle and rig with different tips never looked back. Love it so much better than oxy acetylene. I don't care what anyone says the old guy that turned me on to it wasn't wrong. The bottle lasts forever your not always out of one gas or another
After watching you pull your tools and comp onto the roof I have one comment to make...I used to do the same thing ( retired now after 45 years ) and ended up with a hernia and bowel issues that had to be operated on. May never happen to you but doctor said I wasn't his first patient that had similar results from lifting that way. Just be cautious. You do a great job of troubleshooting. I was a tech and instructor and when i watch some of these other vlogs i cringe how some do their jobs.
What's the better technique?
Dang, you know an experts and expert when smelling their finger is a quick and indepth diagnosis step in his toolchain. That was pretty cool.
The am/pm time instead of 24h always freaks me out 😂 i did think there called him out at 01:06 in the middle of the night
Thanks for the video! Love problem solving videos and watching others work through them. I work from home in tech, but this is absolutely something I like knowing more about. I feel ‘smarter’ with my own home HVAC system.
Like the addition of music when you’re soldering. I have always liked watching the process, but it seems tedious sometimes.
Thanks for the content and walking us through your “big picture” troubleshooting. Always an enjoyable day when I see a new video!
Chris, I'm a senior long term tech (got my EPA in 04) with failure analysis background from my Navy ET days. I'm primarily a Refrigeration guy, but am also fairly good with light commercial HVAC up to about 25 tons.
I'm curious why you use R407C vs R422D for R22 replacement retrofits.
I'm extremely impressed with your teaching style as it's very similar to mine. I operate on the theory that the details are absolutely critical in training because it gives folks more places to tir the information into a coherent and useful whole.
Kudos.
Being cheap with pricy things causes long term issues. I with some friends replaced a well pump we had a issue with wire connectors that's not suitable for 240 volts. It was a very pricy weight till we were given the correct part. The clamps can be a long term issue 5-10 years from now cause they are from lowes and are not 100 percent stainless steal.
Learnt some stuff. Multiple brazing montages. Today is a good day.
I feel like the compressors themselves should have some sensors and protecting circuitry. But with the option to bypass these incase the sensors become faulty.
PS: I REALLY love the compressor autopsies!
Starting at 08:06, you absolutely must overdub the music from the silent film era, 'the compressor hoist' looks like a scene from a Charlie Chaplin film!
Thank you for the education !
So in a car transmission, say a turbo 450 or whatever you want, if the paper gasket sticks to one side of valve body usually means water /moisture go in to it. I wo def if the same applies to refrigeration compressor.
What a weapon. Quick and efficient service tech all whilst filming in the other hand. Impressive!
Nothing ruins my day faster than a customer who wont get the maintenance done.
There is a greater than 90% chance when something fails they want to blame the company or technician.
I'm in a different industry (ISP) and its the same situation here too. No to preventative or periodic maintenance.
Great video and diagnostics Chris!
Whats up Chris,thanks for the video!
Incredible knowledge! Awesome work!!
This could be misleading in sooo many ways!!
I love the fans in that orientation, but if those ice up, that's going to be a nightmare of melting ice and dripping water. One of those, "as long as nothing goes wrong, it' s better" kind of things.
You just pop out the fan motors and defrost it from the inside and it usually just drains down the drain line. It's more time consuming than dropping the pan but it saves a lot of cleanup
Never usually envious of fridge men, you guys work insane hours, but I’m jealous off all that space you have to work on that compressor, you’ll never get that on vrv
This is a great video! Thanks
Great detective work Chris 👍
I had a KE2 with a bad pressure transducer causing it to open the expansion valve and flood on a Saturday evening, it was the same system style duel evaporator system as the system you where working on (also a beer walk in). I didn't have the part on hand so I just pulled the fuse out of the KE2 and ran the system as a single evaporator until monday when united refrigeration opened, they are a well trained customer so they don't leave doors open and I knew it would be fine.
Thanks for the teardown of the compressor.
Excellent work
I love the autopsies of bad equipment. You should do a whole video doing them.
Trick to test heaters: V^2/R=W so on that belly band heater: you read the 265V section, but either works. (265V*265V)/1465 ohms read on meter=47.9W. Or: (240V*240V)/40W = 1440 ohms nominal should be on the meter.
i think i saw 33A draw when it sounded like it was losing voltage
I was surprised you changed the dryer when you never actually opened up the system.
it looks like a single phase compressor was used instead of 3 phase
a single phase would have common, start and run markings a 3 phase would use a, b, c or L1, L2 and L3.
a single phase may work for a little while because large compressors like that dont have overload protectors that are removable they have the protectors internally and the protector usually opens the common connection.
in single phase substitute the 3 phase may get the compressor to start and run for a short while then it gets hot and the thermal protector opens and now the connection is going through the start/run windings and may still run but will bog down.
that is my theory.
Killing it with the braising montage scene
Good job Chris.
Kind of interesting at 33:00 when brazing the M/I it turns yellow to green instantly. I assume due to the heat, the moisture is boiled or removed out of the sensing element. Cool
Pretty sure it's a camera thing.
And I thought it was due to copper being present. I say that only because of hydrochloric acid or was it sulfuric acid reacted with copper turning green? That was in middle school and I'm now 56, SMDH,LOL!
@@natepeterson7145 Maybe, but they do turn from yellow to green when moisture is removed. Just wasn’t expecting to see it happen that quickly. They will be yellow when opened to atmos.
He didnt flow nitrogen as he should have. The green and yellow is left over refrigerant burning into carbon on the outside and inside if the piping.
❄👍💪🇺🇸 Great informative video thanks for sharing.
7:40 V=IR, P=IV, P=49, V=265, solve for R. R = V^2/P, in this case just about 1440 ohms.
I live in central Australia and ive only ever seen sump heaters wired in an Aux NC contact with the comp contactor so it only ever runs when the compressor is off. Im guessing it is different where you are due to lower ambient temperatures?
Also I like that the evaps have controllers on them. Seems quite useful. Im guessing thats from factory aswell? If i was doing a new install of a freezer/coolroom we would use 3rd part controllers to the solenoid and temp probes etc ...
Also the expasnsion devices that we deal with are largely Txv's. Some Electronic ones but only ever seen them in some package units.
Cheers
Love the vids :)
Sounds like it could use a cpr valve to keep it from flooding. Liquid could have washed out the oil causing internal damage
This would be a good video to go back and break down some argon. One thing that puzzles me is, @14m when the compressor was starting with pressure on the side it needs to draw from, and no back pressure on the side it needs to push in to- why does the amp draw start high then drop? Seems to me that the compressor could spin for fun till it was asked more and more to push up hill , then draw current... or do these have an ability somehow to get more done when the demand is low. But then to actually need more power than when they are seeing the full psi? It's hard to comprehend what is going on.
That filthy oil smells the worst, almost an immed migraine.
Me personally i wouldn't of risked contamination using that old refrigerant, unless the customer supplied the compressor
Awesome !!!
If anyone wants to know the kickass tune he had playing during the brazing montages:
Vincent Vega "Space Out" (instrumental).
I love the SoundHound app.
Shazam works good too..
Very nice sir
10:31 - A drier dries; a compressor compresses: and a rubber rubs. So, rubbing without a rubber can cause rubouts, fight?
Oil doesn't come back to the compressor when you have a restriction low charge, or low flow do to unloading / vfd running low speed. The old compressor amp draw was almost the same as the new compressor.
Great video!! I wouldn’t necessarily call it a rack system. Looked like several single compressor systems housed together on the roof. But great video overall
Had one do something similar, cut it open to see and it had copper plating on the bearings and bores making it run tight and eventually stall.
Yeah I was really surprised how good the inside looked beside the piston and valve plate... no copper plating at all
@@HVACRVIDEOS oh God , another rocket scientist? Hmmm? cost,cost,cost?
Video: Fire it up, and let's hope there's nothing more wrong with this guy...
Me: [looks at the timeline: 35 minutes of video left] Press X to doubt...
Watch the high side pressure control line when brazing
I've hit it before once and never again ! whilst system pumped down and lost the full charge
You're good!
The tag on that compressor is pretty white and shiny, was that recently replaced?
Also that rack looks similar to the rack at my local PF Chang's.
Loved your videos with the BJs units. Showed my crew at the shop meeting and they're like "hey we're all too familiar with that this guy's dealing with"
The piece at 39:46 may be the brocen off part of the reed valve. :)
Not that it matters, but P=IE. We can figure out the resistance of that crankcase heater.
Hi Bud. the thing about removing the gasket from the capilary tubes is wrong... Brass fittings to brass fittings is bad, its very hard and does not seal like copper do , hence the gasket is there. Ditch the plastic capilary tubes and use copper ones, or dont remove the gasket.
I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on RUclips come over and check it out ruclips.net/user/liveG2ksviK8zDc
Never heard one make that sound......
Sounds as if it's got the brakes on. I'm going to guess a bearing is going bad, when it gets hot it expands and it too big at that point.
Apollo 13 flight control, do we have a go or no go ? copy ? Chris are we still on VOX or on Hootie and The Blowfish- hold my hand, copy ?
Good job!! Was the pipe clamp missing that rubber boot installed that way? I don’t understand how they just disappear 🤷
32:32 Hey Chris, why aren't you using your normal staple of flare fittings on the drier and sight glass? Keep up the good work sir! 🤠👍
I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on RUclips come over and check it out ruclips.net/user/liveG2ksviK8zDc
thats the first time ive heard a compressor die like that...
Same here
@@HVACRVIDEOS oh God, you still at the counter?
Hi Chris, once again, another kick ass video, Just wanted to know how you feel about crimping your refrigerant pipes instead of brazing
Hi Chris great work as always. Just a question, regarding nylog on the pressure control flare fittings. Do you ever use a quater inch copper washer to make a seal, or is only using nylog good enough, especially on the hp side. Just wanted your opinion. Thank you
Burned refrigerant has a bit of a old burned garlicky smell .
I wonder what the software life cycle is like on those KE2 controls? I would hate to have to keep one in service connected to the Internet without being able to do security updates.
If the compressor lost a phase inside, then one of the legs u can clamp your amp meter on would show ~0 amps anyway.
That compressor had a contract put out on its life. Pew pew.
beautiful job no constructive criticism.
In regards to the crankcase heater, it's not even on the compressor. It's resting on the mounting feet.
Think one of your internal overloads has burnt contact. loses internal contact makes single phase condition. After contact cools. Makes connection again.
22:04 ignorant question... if you noticed that the temp. sensor was touching the heater, why did you replace it anyway? couldn't you have just zip-tied it to the right place and saved the client a few dollars?
Heck yeah bud 👍
Excellent video! Loved seeing the compressor teardown!
Thanks bud
@@HVACRVIDEOS in the country of India and China, that is a common practice and repair. But again, let put america back to work.
Definitely is a potential leak source when it’s rubbing in there without the rubber, for sure -19:50
zip ties on a temperature sensor is kinda bad though...
while I certainly couldn't say without being there -- that noise made me think low oil in the compressor -- not LIKLY.... but it kinda gives me flashbacks to some trouble cases. Well maybe A trouble case -- Traps are important and often tough to see
Only issue is I did not see him flowing nitrogen while brazing. Not good practice if you dont want to fill your eevs with carbon build up.
I Will discuss this on my livestream this evening 1/30/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on RUclips come over and check it out ruclips.net/user/liveG2ksviK8zDc
Does anyone know what that paste is while he is brazing? Is it a sort of coolpaste that stuf wont burn (copper, wires etc). I normally use really wet towels so nothing extra wil burn
It is called Viper Wet Rag and it is made by refrigeration technologies. You can find it at your local wholesaler and or from trutechtools.com if you use my offer code (bigpicture) one word you can get a discount at checkout and than I get a small commission from that
I wonder if that small piece of metal is caught in the liquid line drier.....would that be possible?
How low was the ambient?
Great job!