Doesn't data show though that doing half reps in the stretched position produces as much stimulus and hypertrophy as full range of motion and both of which produce greater stimulus and hypertrophy than half reps in the contracted position? Meaning that overhead tricep extensions would be superior to the tricep kickback since you maximize the stretch? It's why seated leg curls are better than lying hamstring curls, even though lying hamstring curls give you a greater peak contraction because you can get your heels all the way to your butt, but the leg curls give you a greater stretch. I would maybe argue that the kickback can give you better mind/muscle connection to help you understand how to better contract your triceps doing better movements like the overhead extension, but I wouldn't argue that getting a greater contraction produces better results. And we all know EMG data isn't useful to determining actual stimulus, only signaling for contraction.
That’s all true but you may be taking the long-length (stretch) research a little too far IMO. I don’t think we have nearly enough research to throw out the contracted part of lifts all together. My reasoning for emphasizing the contraction was to show that it stresses the tricep very differently than overhead movements (which most people prioritize anyway) and we know exercise variation and novelty is important for growth! I included the EMG just to show that the long head does contract more as you extend the shoulder, not to suggest that means it’s “better” than anything else. The point of the video was to show that kickbacks are still worth including IMO - not that they are superior. I do think overhead extensions are the “best” tricep option for muscle growth, but that doesn’t mean they should be all you do. Better to have variety, especially for a muscle that crosses multiple joints like the triceps. Hope that clarifies some of that! 🙏🏻
From the data we have so far, biceps and triceps don‘t seem to grow better at longer lengths but more in mid (mid working perfectly for literally every muscle). And in the overhead position the long head suffers active insufficiency that‘s also why studies show better medial & lateral heads growth in the overhead position.
Soreness doesn't translate in feeling it doesn't translate That's the whole point of knowing what you're doing.. resistance is what gives you what you're looking for not throwing your arm behind you although yes I feel it more with 5 lb then I would with a 5 lb pull down..
@@BEY.961 ok… I said nothing about soreness. I said “listening to my body” like I feel the different muscle groups each exercise is hitting. The way Jeff talks has been more helpful than most, to me.
I swear Fitness influencers revel in confusing the hell out of people… every week it’s a new “this exercise is the best” quickly followed by a “oh wait turns out it’s actually the worst”
Triceps kickbacks have been my favorite tricep exercise ever since I tried them after you talked about them in a video years ago, lol. I feel them in my triceps more than any other workout!
@@ArchIVEDCinemayou can’t that’s why this exercise sucks lol when you put your tricep in the position for a kickback, you physically cannot do very much weight effectively. Also since it almost doesn’t stretch the tricep at all, it is one of the worse exercises. If I’m doing triceps twice a week, I am not wasting the few exercises I have on doing something that just doesn’t work so good. Go ahead and do them though if you’re a beginner, you can do anything as a beginner 🤷♂️
Valid point. Lot of variables on exercises and how to execute them, but I do appreciate the info and work you put into your channel and content. I appreciate you Jeff. Keep up the great work.
Looking good, Jeff! Your tricep guidance has changed my triceps existence. Been incorporating your backed by science videos for about a year now and wow what a difference
Dips aren’t actually very good for the long head. Any sort of pressing won’t leverage the long head enough for it to get trained effectively. Pretty good for medial and lateral heads tho
@@techcorner7084 it's still misinformation being spread by OP tho. it is definitely not highest activation to all heads of triceps as the activation of long head will be subpar in comparison to the medial and lateral heads regardless
@@techcorner7084Nope, doesn't change anything as the long head lengthens where the other heads contract and vice versa. Thus, not significantly changing the overall length of the long head throughout the movement.
The big difference is that peak tension for a dip is at the bottom, where the triceps are in extension. In the kickback, peak tension is at the end range, when the triceps are fully contracted.
Jeff, what Ryan Jewers was saying in the video with the text “This is dumb” or “there is zero reason to…” was that the bent over position (which makes it a traditional kickback) is not necessary when you can simply do the same thing standing (which would be considered a tricep extension), keeping the shoulder extended and humerus abducted a bit to give the long head more leverage due to its origin on the infraglenoid tubercle of the scapula.
I was always taught Cable/dumbbell kick backs for contraction due to the shoulder position, and single arm overhead DB extensions for the deep stretch behind your head… glad this video justifies that
(I am not a physician or someone who can provide 100% accurate info) cable kickbacks are perfectly optimal, but dumbell kickbacks are not, as all of the tension is at the top of the range of motion (at least for me) so technically it isn't the best but if you enjoy that exercise and it works for you keep it up
Nobody “has to choose” tho. Don’t over complicate it guys. Do your favourite/one that you get the best results from. Or, just mix it up now and then to keep stimulus maximised.
Omg, finally tricep kickbacks get the attention they deserve. I used to include them in my clients' programs and I always got such good responses. I think that one of the reasons they're so misunderstood is that a lot of people do it incorrectly and don't feel the benefits. However, thank you so much for spreading knowledge and helping everyone ❤. I aspire to educate myself enough so that I can educate others. P.S.- I will mention that this is a difficult exercise to do appropriately due to positioning and active insufficiency causing pain or limited muscle activation.
I used to do it this way, but I stopped because I noticed no one else was doing it this way. I think I need to go back to doing it. Thank you for reminding me of what used to be intuitively obvious to me.
Thanks for this. I was kinda skeptic of this move but I’ll have to give it a try. I haven’t been getting any real definition doing pull downs and overheads.
Thank goodness. My triceps developed because of the kickback but now they were worrying they did something wrong after looking at the hate for the exercise.
I hear both! Bending forward is also fine, though. It doesn’t actually make the exercise worse in any way. And some people feel more stable and locked in that way, which is a good thing.
@@JeffNippard well, if someone likes that version better, than that is totally fine, I agree. If someone doesn't tho, they should know, that the standing version is the same :)
@@JeffNippardfrom my understanding of the mechanics, I think bending is slightly worse, because it makes you need to actively keep the arm extended (going against gravity) as opposed to the standing variant where your body position naturally puts the arm into an extended position. Meaning you get less energy expenditure from the standing variant for a comparable stimulus
@@xyanic2496 It places the shoulder in direct opposition of gravity, but not the triceps. Hence you need to expend more energy for the same amount of work done on the triceps, making it slightly worse for triceps growth specifically. It will still produce results if done properly, but the standing version is more efficient in terms of the fatigue to gains ratio
Good explanation. The time at which a tricep "kick back" may be suboptimal is when the lifter is unable to have enough shoulder strength to keep it in a fixed position or if the elbow joint has been injured/compromised.
In terms of specificity, this movement is useful when you are climbing a ladder and you needs to swing your sword backward to attack the enemies below you.
A lot of people think gym bros are just meat heads, but I am several years into my lifting journey and still learning new things all the time. And when I apply that knowledge I get better results! Thanks for this
I love the kickback. I can feel the backside of the triceps more when I do it. From experience its a muscle that gets neglected even tho it get stimulated to some degree while doing more conventional movements. I love science based vidoes like this. There are so many people who have hiden "secrets" to weight training. Its pretty straight forward. Consistancy - form - close to failure - enough cals and protein - rest. What a PT can help you with is to find movements you like and see that you hit enough of the musclegroups to reach your goal. If you are a beginner its important to enjoy the things you do if you are not super disiplined. This is the kind of movements you can take to give you the next level in weight training. Since I started training regulary I focused on the basics to try and hit as many musclegroups as I could each week focusing on form and being consistant. Now I watch videos like this to try to hit different parts of my arm like with biceps and hammer curl. When its science based its easier to understand why. Its also more important now then before to lifting weights you can controll then weight you can egolift. My go to influensers is Mike Israetel and Jeff.
I really dislike overhead tricep extensions. When you start getting tired it feels awkward & easy to lose form. Tried your method this week. Absolutely brilliant!! Felt the burn & definitely makes so much sense. Gets straight to the point
Thanks man! Was wondering how to do triceps workout. Thsi video helped a lot! (And thanks for showing how to do it with dumbbells because yeah I don't have access to cables)
I knew it!! Always got a amazing pump with kickbacks. But since every youtuber says it sucks, I almost never do it anymore. Now I will continue to listen to my body. Kickbacks combined with an overheadstrech most be a recipe for thunder baby. Thanx!💚
Single arm cross body pull-downs are insane for the back portion of the tricep, where you come back across the body with the cable and down. The contractions are probably the most nutty out of any movement I’ve ever done
I did research and found a study stating that overhead extensions saw about 40% more tricep growth than exercises like pushdowns and cable kickbacks. On the other hand a personal perspective I feel like on kickbacks I’m smooth sailing but all of a sudden I can barely move it whereas with overhead extensions it already starts out with high tension, it feels like I only have 2 more reps left but I end up getting 10. My personal experiences aren’t as important as high quality studies but it’s still something. I would also like to add that like other Jeff Nippard videos have proven, leg curls in a more stretched position yield more hamstring growth and leg extensions in a more stretched position grew the quads more. So the overhead extension is probably the best tricep exercise but this isn’t to say that kickbacks or pushdowns are bad. You can include all of them of you work hard and don’t throw in too many sets.
Thanks for this cause I used to do dumbbell triceps kickbacks and it really felt effective but then I saw a lot of fitness influencers say it’s useless so I stopped , never had that same level of tricep pump from any other tricep exercise although am yet to add skill crushers to my routine
I’m glad that there are people dedicated to finding the limits of what’s possible. Pushing the meta. Optimization. I’ve been a gamer too long to still be worried about doing things optimally all the time. I’ve seen the value in not being worried about “optimal” performance. I’m old enough to have optimized away enough time, and I just want to like what I’m doing. Pick heavy thing up, put it back down, repeat. Makes monkey brain happy. Works good enough for, as I’m not trying to be the next Mr. Olympia. Though I for damn sure appreciate those who put in the work. It makes it easier for casuals like me to understand how the body works.
Ben Pakulksi has a great train tip on this. Kneel on the ground drop the pulley’s point to about halfway on the track, adjust as needed, grip the handles, allow your chest to open up proudly with your shoulders back and you’ll find that your elbows will stay comfortably behind your torso while never losing tension on the pully. In fact doing it this way minimizes an opportunity for momentum making any weight you use surprisingly challenging. Doing standing up right tricep extensions I comfortably do say 50lbs or more with Ben’s method 30 lbs is challenging but the contractions are insane.
It's all about getting that arm behind the back while maintaining anti-rotation through the core. You get valuable high quality rear delt engagement plus great exposure to anti-rotation to the core, glutes, and hamstrings. You can accentuate glutes and hamstrings by hinging at the hip!
I do my kickbacks in 2 different hand positions because it works out the muscles differently. So, at full extension, one of them is the normal grip that anybody uses, kind of a vertical grip. And then I'll alternate with a more horizontal grip at full extension. Also, I think a lot of people don't recognize that there is an additional benefit for the wrist when you do your kickbacks. I have arthritis and so, like playing the guitar for a long time or drawing for a long time is painful. But I actually found that if I don't have time to do specific wrist workouts as part of my routine, I can use the kickbacks and the benefit of that weighted kickback. Your wrist has to be able to carry the weight before it even gets to be challenging for your tricep.
In the middle between dumbbells and cables, in terms of consistent load, is a resistance band to hit the triceps if you’re at home or can’t access a cable at all. Cable is still better for constant tension, but bands may keep tension slightly better than a dumbbell by comparison
You’re correct my friend I’ve been training for 32 years and competed in many things I noticed the same thing when you push your arm into a position to where your hand is behind you the tricep does engage and doing nose breakers when you come up roll your arms just a little bit forward to you’ll feel the same effect
Triceps dips are my replacement for the kickback, same shoulder position but more stable. Just add incline triceps extensions (30 deg my fav) for the crazy stretch after.
It's good to know dumbells can get it done. My gym only has two cable machines, and they are almost ALWAYS in use. On that note if you look at this comments for video suggestions at all, or if you already have a video on this, I'd love to see something on ways to get similar or identical exercises to cable machines with other equipment for people who have limited access and only really use dumbells and/or barbells.
I agree with the full range of motion kick backs is my first exercise I start with on arms day . But I get my most intense burn with skull crushers and push downs in a drop-set form .
You can also do pushups with something tall under your hands. It isn't optimal, but it takes way less fancy equipment and lets your arms work while they're behind your torso.
The reason people don't like the tricep kick back is because there is little to no resistance below parallel. It still is a trash workout unless you're using cables. When you're using cables while standing you're just doing a tricep push down but modified.
For years I did kickbacks with dumbells with my triceps far behind my torso and got crazy results for a guy with no gym access and limited equipment. I knew I was doing something right. I took them out after reading into how ineffective they were, but will throw them back in for a burnout in my routine. They did wonders for me, some of the best tricep growth I'd ever had. Can't believe I took them out, gonna try with cables. If it works for you, keep it going. I should have never stopped them
I use the seated cable row and place my non-working arm on the bench to stabilise myself when i perform kickbacks. Diamond push ups and dips are really good mass builders for the triceps too
Tip for everyone that tries to do this, when you want to stretch the triceps with this excercise try to do a bit of elevation of the elbow ( like an front elevation but with the elbow flexed )
In case the main point was lost. Doing the triceps exercise while leaning forward, as shown in the first few clips in the short, makes it harder to maintain the triceps in a form where they are at peak contraction while applying load. Standing upright while applying load guarantees a far easier experience. As long as your triceps are behind the torso and you keep the elbow in a fixed position during the workout. Doing overhead is good for training the tricep stretch while under load. Doing them upright while behind the torso ensures training the tricep while contracted. Cables are better at consistently applying the weight to the target muscle if set up and positioned correctly. Dumbbells can get the job done, but not as consistently and easily as a cable can. Side note: there is such a thing as a right and wrong cable to use. Generally speaking, if the cable is attatched to a pulley that also has a pivot with a wide range of motion, you're good to go. If the pully is fixed, you might break something depending on what exercise you're doing. Fixed pulleys tend to only accommodate a few specific exercises. Pulleys that can pivot and have a wide variety of angles will accommodate a wider variety of exercises for many muscle groups
I knew it glad I stuck with it. Just started working out again 2 months ago and kept seeing videos saying kickbacks were no good but when I would do them it felt like I was working that muscle out good so glad I found justification lol
A long time ago when I started regularly doing these I noticed an almost immediate “awareness” of my triceps. That full contraction was never or very rarely felt any other time during triceps training. The load was always significantly lower, but if I didn’t do them I felt like something was missing
This is pure comedy at this point. Ever since I've been taking lifting serious again I always get video's telling me how I'm doing it all wrong like clockwork. Like this one, regarding triceps. First I was doing pressdowns, I come home put on RUclips and the first short is about how pressdowns aren't effective but overhead extentions are the best, now I do overhead presses. I did this morning. And then I come home, put on RUclips and now this video is telling me that overhead extentions aren't efficient and now kick backs are the best triceps exercise. I wonder what video I will get next when I start doing kick backs next week... 😂
this is something i noticed naturally just stretching in highschool before i started working out. idk why people don't listen to their own body cause there is SUCHHH a nice burn in the long head pulling by arm more behind my back
Doesn't data show though that doing half reps in the stretched position produces as much stimulus and hypertrophy as full range of motion and both of which produce greater stimulus and hypertrophy than half reps in the contracted position? Meaning that overhead tricep extensions would be superior to the tricep kickback since you maximize the stretch?
It's why seated leg curls are better than lying hamstring curls, even though lying hamstring curls give you a greater peak contraction because you can get your heels all the way to your butt, but the leg curls give you a greater stretch.
I would maybe argue that the kickback can give you better mind/muscle connection to help you understand how to better contract your triceps doing better movements like the overhead extension, but I wouldn't argue that getting a greater contraction produces better results. And we all know EMG data isn't useful to determining actual stimulus, only signaling for contraction.
That’s all true but you may be taking the long-length (stretch) research a little too far IMO. I don’t think we have nearly enough research to throw out the contracted part of lifts all together.
My reasoning for emphasizing the contraction was to show that it stresses the tricep very differently than overhead movements (which most people prioritize anyway) and we know exercise variation and novelty is important for growth!
I included the EMG just to show that the long head does contract more as you extend the shoulder, not to suggest that means it’s “better” than anything else.
The point of the video was to show that kickbacks are still worth including IMO - not that they are superior. I do think overhead extensions are the “best” tricep option for muscle growth, but that doesn’t mean they should be all you do. Better to have variety, especially for a muscle that crosses multiple joints like the triceps.
Hope that clarifies some of that! 🙏🏻
Great comment, completely agree. Jeff is a good dude and offers a lot of valuable information, but he can be wrong at times.
Lol, Jeff pinned and replied to a bot instead of your comment 😭
Oh wait, his answer is here now 👌
From the data we have so far, biceps and triceps don‘t seem to grow better at longer lengths but more in mid (mid working perfectly for literally every muscle).
And in the overhead position the long head suffers active insufficiency that‘s also why studies show better medial & lateral heads growth in the overhead position.
This guys channel is a gold mine. I’ve learned so much about do and don’t that have served my body well
useless information
@@BUSCA3ULLAcope
@@BUSCA3ULLA ur slow
Useless garbage just lift the weights
@@BUSCA3ULLAyou could say a video like this is useless but a lot of his other videos are amazing
Thank you for getting straight to the point. NEVER CHANGE
This channel has taught me more about listening to my body in the gym than any other. Thanks Jeff!
Soreness doesn't translate in feeling it doesn't translate That's the whole point of knowing what you're doing.. resistance is what gives you what you're looking for not throwing your arm behind you although yes I feel it more with 5 lb then I would with a 5 lb pull down..
@@BEY.961 ok… I said nothing about soreness. I said “listening to my body” like I feel the different muscle groups each exercise is hitting. The way Jeff talks has been more helpful than most, to me.
You are welcome 🥰🤗
Well hes wrong here listen too tnf hes better@@francinesmith1889
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Dumbell Kickbacks gave my arm the "crossaint" shape
Interesting, I’ve heard it called horseshoe
@@anthonyphillips7642both
They're shaped like me
Croissant* 🥐
No, they didn't.
Your GENETICS gave you those.
Exercise was also key.
But kickbacks are garbage
I swear Fitness influencers revel in confusing the hell out of people… every week it’s a new “this exercise is the best” quickly followed by a “oh wait turns out it’s actually the worst”
The industry is saturated with unqualified "experts"
True imo it doesn't matter as long as you are feeling the mind muscle connection and you go to faliure every set your muscle with grow
That is how science works, crazy isn’t?
@@miguelsabormango290 lol no thats not true most influencers are just wrong, if it was "science" they would all say the same thing
@@jacobvasquez5380 science advances everyday. Heck, even studies contradict other studies over the same topic in every branch of science
I just hope you realize how much you're helping people out in their journey including myself, thank you so much Jeff I really appreciate it.
Thank you! Finally! Ive gotten more stimulus & connection from the kickback, than any other tricep execerise ive ever done!
Triceps kickbacks have been my favorite tricep exercise ever since I tried them after you talked about them in a video years ago, lol. I feel them in my triceps more than any other workout!
Me2bro
Because they're easy lol...
@@KeithBurtons Then do more weight or more reps
@@ArchIVEDCinemayou can’t that’s why this exercise sucks lol when you put your tricep in the position for a kickback, you physically cannot do very much weight effectively. Also since it almost doesn’t stretch the tricep at all, it is one of the worse exercises. If I’m doing triceps twice a week, I am not wasting the few exercises I have on doing something that just doesn’t work so good.
Go ahead and do them though if you’re a beginner, you can do anything as a beginner 🤷♂️
@@tiernanastronskas261 I'm not a beginner but ok
Valid point. Lot of variables on exercises and how to execute them, but I do appreciate the info and work you put into your channel and content. I appreciate you Jeff. Keep up the great work.
Why should we do this exercise when the best part is the strech
this is literally the only tricep exercise i connect with, and the only one that doesn't cause my tennis elbow pain to flare up.
Try single arm tricep push downs just standing up lmao
Same. I get pain in my left elbow when doing triceps curls and skull crusher's don't give me a pump
Cant cheat the contraction with forearm.
Try katana extensions
Do more warm ups for your elbows before doing over head extensions
Looking good, Jeff! Your tricep guidance has changed my triceps existence. Been incorporating your backed by science videos for about a year now and wow what a difference
Another alternative would be dips, which gives the highest activation to all heads of triceps. Shoulder placement is similar to kickbacks.
Dips aren’t actually very good for the long head. Any sort of pressing won’t leverage the long head enough for it to get trained effectively. Pretty good for medial and lateral heads tho
@@techcorner7084 it's still misinformation being spread by OP tho. it is definitely not highest activation to all heads of triceps as the activation of long head will be subpar in comparison to the medial and lateral heads regardless
@@techcorner7084Nope, doesn't change anything as the long head lengthens where the other heads contract and vice versa. Thus, not significantly changing the overall length of the long head throughout the movement.
The big difference is that peak tension for a dip is at the bottom, where the triceps are in extension. In the kickback, peak tension is at the end range, when the triceps are fully contracted.
I like doing the hex press, dips(assisted cuz I'm not at that level yet) and rope overhead extensions which target all of the muscles in the Triceps
“You can test this out for yourself and feel the difference.”
Me with no real gym training yet:
“I FEEL NOTHING!!”
Jeff, what Ryan Jewers was saying in the video with the text “This is dumb” or “there is zero reason to…” was that the bent over position (which makes it a traditional kickback) is not necessary when you can simply do the same thing standing (which would be considered a tricep extension), keeping the shoulder extended and humerus abducted a bit to give the long head more leverage due to its origin on the infraglenoid tubercle of the scapula.
wtf
I was always taught Cable/dumbbell kick backs for contraction due to the shoulder position, and single arm overhead DB extensions for the deep stretch behind your head… glad this video justifies that
Its dumbell kickbacks that most people have a problem with, because it doesnt give the tricep a proper stretch
I'm glad to hear this as I do kickbacks at home on an incline bench. My favourite tri exercise.
(I am not a physician or someone who can provide 100% accurate info) cable kickbacks are perfectly optimal, but dumbell kickbacks are not, as all of the tension is at the top of the range of motion (at least for me) so technically it isn't the best but if you enjoy that exercise and it works for you keep it up
Nobody “has to choose” tho.
Don’t over complicate it guys. Do your favourite/one that you get the best results from. Or, just mix it up now and then to keep stimulus maximised.
Omg, finally tricep kickbacks get the attention they deserve. I used to include them in my clients' programs and I always got such good responses. I think that one of the reasons they're so misunderstood is that a lot of people do it incorrectly and don't feel the benefits. However, thank you so much for spreading knowledge and helping everyone ❤. I aspire to educate myself enough so that I can educate others.
P.S.- I will mention that this is a difficult exercise to do appropriately due to positioning and active insufficiency causing pain or limited muscle activation.
I feel sorry for your clients if you think 'kick backs' are any good. Ebay diploma by any chance?
@@KeithBurtons Of course. Anyone who disagrees with @KeithBurtons has a Ebay diploma - God (Ebay accredited)
I’ve been doing them again regularly since this video was posted. It has made a difference in the size and shape of my upper arm.
Thanks you've made me a stretch fundamentalist and now you want me to believe this?
yeah xd
This is a year old video cousin
I used to do it this way, but I stopped because I noticed no one else was doing it this way. I think I need to go back to doing it. Thank you for reminding me of what used to be intuitively obvious to me.
I actually removed the kickback from my routine from all the crap it got... but Jeff alone can bring it back. Thanks Jeff ill use it again.
Love seeing all these videos that basically validate what I've been saying for decades just from instinct.
Facts, gotta work all three heads of the triceps to grow to full capacity
Just stand up
Always learn something new from your channel! Thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge!
These topics that say "everyone is wrong" is crazy to me
I love learning about the body, and your page has helped me learn so much more
Love your science based approach to training
You're awesome, man!
This dude become a scientist to become buff
LMAOO
Thanks for this. I was kinda skeptic of this move but I’ll have to give it a try. I haven’t been getting any real definition doing pull downs and overheads.
But then you rank tricep kickbacks as the worst exercise in your latest triceps series.
Because triceps kickback with dumbbells is dumb because of tension profile grow up kid
@@nihalbhamrah4726 he calls it one of the best in this video. Did you watch the video?
He said with dumbbells, not cables. Let’s use our brain
I have to say, been following your videos for the last two months. Great tips!
Dam Jeff...... looking like an absolute Trane AC unit bro! Awesome
Thank goodness. My triceps developed because of the kickback but now they were worrying they did something wrong after looking at the hate for the exercise.
The usual critique is that you can do it standing, not bent over. So they are against bending-over execution, not the exercise
I hear both! Bending forward is also fine, though. It doesn’t actually make the exercise worse in any way. And some people feel more stable and locked in that way, which is a good thing.
@@JeffNippard well, if someone likes that version better, than that is totally fine, I agree. If someone doesn't tho, they should know, that the standing version is the same :)
@@JeffNippardfrom my understanding of the mechanics, I think bending is slightly worse, because it makes you need to actively keep the arm extended (going against gravity) as opposed to the standing variant where your body position naturally puts the arm into an extended position. Meaning you get less energy expenditure from the standing variant for a comparable stimulus
@@agx8447
But going against gravity needs more muscle strenght = harder = better...or not?
@@xyanic2496 It places the shoulder in direct opposition of gravity, but not the triceps. Hence you need to expend more energy for the same amount of work done on the triceps, making it slightly worse for triceps growth specifically. It will still produce results if done properly, but the standing version is more efficient in terms of the fatigue to gains ratio
Appreciating your content for all these years now. Keep going strong!
I'll take your word for it because the definition on your triceps is well better than mine and ive been training a long time
Jeff you have evolved into a legit workout influencer. Ty for the hard work, and legit exercises!!
Good explanation. The time at which a tricep "kick back" may be suboptimal is when the lifter is unable to have enough shoulder strength to keep it in a fixed position or if the elbow joint has been injured/compromised.
I think you’re my favorite fitness RUclipsr of all time bro. Keep up the fantastic work my man.
Thank you! As a beginner, I needed to know this
In terms of specificity, this movement is useful when you are climbing a ladder and you needs to swing your sword backward to attack the enemies below you.
A lot of people think gym bros are just meat heads, but I am several years into my lifting journey and still learning new things all the time. And when I apply that knowledge I get better results! Thanks for this
Awesome point Jeff. That makes total sense. I’ll be incorporating those in the new week💪
I love the kickback. I can feel the backside of the triceps more when I do it. From experience its a muscle that gets neglected even tho it get stimulated to some degree while doing more conventional movements.
I love science based vidoes like this. There are so many people who have hiden "secrets" to weight training. Its pretty straight forward. Consistancy - form - close to failure - enough cals and protein - rest. What a PT can help you with is to find movements you like and see that you hit enough of the musclegroups to reach your goal. If you are a beginner its important to enjoy the things you do if you are not super disiplined. This is the kind of movements you can take to give you the next level in weight training. Since I started training regulary I focused on the basics to try and hit as many musclegroups as I could each week focusing on form and being consistant. Now I watch videos like this to try to hit different parts of my arm like with biceps and hammer curl. When its science based its easier to understand why. Its also more important now then before to lifting weights you can controll then weight you can egolift.
My go to influensers is Mike Israetel and Jeff.
thanks for uploading a video of matches i need to go rewatch
Just done this Nippy and it worked a treat. Thanks 😎
This has some interesting implications for pushups vs dips and handstand to l-sit that i havent considered before
This guy is so good at explaining shit, that I sometimes forget he’s a fkn unit
I really dislike overhead tricep extensions. When you start getting tired it feels awkward & easy to lose form.
Tried your method this week. Absolutely brilliant!! Felt the burn & definitely makes so much sense. Gets straight to the point
Thanks man! Was wondering how to do triceps workout. Thsi video helped a lot! (And thanks for showing how to do it with dumbbells because yeah I don't have access to cables)
I knew it!!
Always got a amazing pump with kickbacks. But since every youtuber says it sucks, I almost never do it anymore.
Now I will continue to listen to my body. Kickbacks combined with an overheadstrech most be a recipe for thunder baby.
Thanx!💚
Single arm cross body pull-downs are insane for the back portion of the tricep, where you come back across the body with the cable and down. The contractions are probably the most nutty out of any movement I’ve ever done
I do it seated with double rope and more externally rotated, looks totaly different but is gold
Absolutely fantastic. Please do biceps next.
I did research and found a study stating that overhead extensions saw about 40% more tricep growth than exercises like pushdowns and cable kickbacks.
On the other hand a personal perspective I feel like on kickbacks I’m smooth sailing but all of a sudden I can barely move it whereas with overhead extensions it already starts out with high tension, it feels like I only have 2 more reps left but I end up getting 10.
My personal experiences aren’t as important as high quality studies but it’s still something.
I would also like to add that like other Jeff Nippard videos have proven, leg curls in a more stretched position yield more hamstring growth and leg extensions in a more stretched position grew the quads more. So the overhead extension is probably the best tricep exercise but this isn’t to say that kickbacks or pushdowns are bad. You can include all of them of you work hard and don’t throw in too many sets.
You have a phenomenal physique and your content is awesome and really helpful. Don't let anyone tell you different.
Thanks for this cause I used to do dumbbell triceps kickbacks and it really felt effective but then I saw a lot of fitness influencers say it’s useless so I stopped , never had that same level of tricep pump from any other tricep exercise although am yet to add skill crushers to my routine
I use bands with this movement and do the hyper extension way your buddy did. Great feel.
Absolutely love you and your videos Many thanks
I’m glad that there are people dedicated to finding the limits of what’s possible. Pushing the meta. Optimization.
I’ve been a gamer too long to still be worried about doing things optimally all the time. I’ve seen the value in not being worried about “optimal” performance. I’m old enough to have optimized away enough time, and I just want to like what I’m doing.
Pick heavy thing up, put it back down, repeat. Makes monkey brain happy. Works good enough for, as I’m not trying to be the next Mr. Olympia.
Though I for damn sure appreciate those who put in the work. It makes it easier for casuals like me to understand how the body works.
Ben Pakulksi has a great train tip on this. Kneel on the ground drop the pulley’s point to about halfway on the track, adjust as needed, grip the handles, allow your chest to open up proudly with your shoulders back and you’ll find that your elbows will stay comfortably behind your torso while never losing tension on the pully. In fact doing it this way minimizes an opportunity for momentum making any weight you use surprisingly challenging. Doing standing up right tricep extensions I comfortably do say 50lbs or more with Ben’s method 30 lbs is challenging but the contractions are insane.
Thanks jeff!!! This little tweak is what I've been looking for
It's all about getting that arm behind the back while maintaining anti-rotation through the core.
You get valuable high quality rear delt engagement plus great exposure to anti-rotation to the core, glutes, and hamstrings.
You can accentuate glutes and hamstrings by hinging at the hip!
I totally agree with that , but I think "cross body tricep extention" is a more natural and healthier option especially for the shoulder .
So happy to see your videos again. Esp the shortsss
Kickbacks give me such a crazy pump I almost always need to stop doing them before the set is over.
Would be good to have a shorts series about one very good exercise for each muscle (if we had to pick one)
I do my kickbacks in 2 different hand positions because it works out the muscles differently. So, at full extension, one of them is the normal grip that anybody uses, kind of a vertical grip. And then I'll alternate with a more horizontal grip at full extension. Also, I think a lot of people don't recognize that there is an additional benefit for the wrist when you do your kickbacks. I have arthritis and so, like playing the guitar for a long time or drawing for a long time is painful. But I actually found that if I don't have time to do specific wrist workouts as part of my routine, I can use the kickbacks and the benefit of that weighted kickback. Your wrist has to be able to carry the weight before it even gets to be challenging for your tricep.
In the middle between dumbbells and cables, in terms of consistent load, is a resistance band to hit the triceps if you’re at home or can’t access a cable at all. Cable is still better for constant tension, but bands may keep tension slightly better than a dumbbell by comparison
Its hard to do his with dumbbells. Took me 2 weeks to realize that im not doing it right so i had to lessen the weight first. What a humbling moment.
Do this 3 to 4 sets to past failure twice a week would go hard
You’re correct my friend I’ve been training for 32 years and competed in many things I noticed the same thing when you push your arm into a position to where your hand is behind you the tricep does engage and doing nose breakers when you come up roll your arms just a little bit forward to you’ll feel the same effect
Triceps dips are my replacement for the kickback, same shoulder position but more stable. Just add incline triceps extensions (30 deg my fav) for the crazy stretch after.
It's good to know dumbells can get it done. My gym only has two cable machines, and they are almost ALWAYS in use. On that note if you look at this comments for video suggestions at all, or if you already have a video on this, I'd love to see something on ways to get similar or identical exercises to cable machines with other equipment for people who have limited access and only really use dumbells and/or barbells.
Thank you, bro always gives helpful advice
I agree with the full range of motion kick backs is my first exercise I start with on arms day . But I get my most intense burn with skull crushers and push downs in a drop-set form .
THANK YOU! this is 💯 . now, how to set up the cable kickback so i can do both arms at once??
Starting doing this a month or so and already noticing a difference. ty mr nip
You can also do pushups with something tall under your hands. It isn't optimal, but it takes way less fancy equipment and lets your arms work while they're behind your torso.
The reason people don't like the tricep kick back is because there is little to no resistance below parallel. It still is a trash workout unless you're using cables. When you're using cables while standing you're just doing a tricep push down but modified.
Thats a good tip, but my triceps got big doing all the other exercises you said weren't as good. But keep up the good work.
I've started to incorporate them in my training and the pump and MMC I get from them is crazy.
For years I did kickbacks with dumbells with my triceps far behind my torso and got crazy results for a guy with no gym access and limited equipment. I knew I was doing something right.
I took them out after reading into how ineffective they were, but will throw them back in for a burnout in my routine. They did wonders for me, some of the best tricep growth I'd ever had. Can't believe I took them out, gonna try with cables. If it works for you, keep it going. I should have never stopped them
I use the seated cable row and place my non-working arm on the bench to stabilise myself when i perform kickbacks. Diamond push ups and dips are really good mass builders for the triceps too
Fun fact for anyone working in masonry construction holding the 2 block behind you back and picking them up that way has a similar effect
Out of date info. Peak contraction isn't 'a thing' anymore. Extended length partial or at least extended length contractions are where it's at!
Youre absolutely correct unfortunately everyone is a expert these days and most people are gulible due to influencers.
A big guy in my gym always does this now I know why 😮
Tip for everyone that tries to do this, when you want to stretch the triceps with this excercise try to do a bit of elevation of the elbow ( like an front elevation but with the elbow flexed )
Haha thanks for the end bit about dumbbells
I was like "damn my apartment gym doesnt have cables for triceps" but then you saved me
In case the main point was lost. Doing the triceps exercise while leaning forward, as shown in the first few clips in the short, makes it harder to maintain the triceps in a form where they are at peak contraction while applying load.
Standing upright while applying load guarantees a far easier experience.
As long as your triceps are behind the torso and you keep the elbow in a fixed position during the workout.
Doing overhead is good for training the tricep stretch while under load. Doing them upright while behind the torso ensures training the tricep while contracted.
Cables are better at consistently applying the weight to the target muscle if set up and positioned correctly.
Dumbbells can get the job done, but not as consistently and easily as a cable can.
Side note: there is such a thing as a right and wrong cable to use.
Generally speaking, if the cable is attatched to a pulley that also has a pivot with a wide range of motion, you're good to go.
If the pully is fixed, you might break something depending on what exercise you're doing. Fixed pulleys tend to only accommodate a few specific exercises.
Pulleys that can pivot and have a wide variety of angles will accommodate a wider variety of exercises for many muscle groups
i think ryan jewers meant you can set the cable higher and do a pushdown with your shoulder in slightl extension rather than bending down
Exactly he just said there is no point in doing them bending down
@@arielsasson2673So how to perform them can you send a video link?
Muscular range rather than tendon range
I knew it glad I stuck with it. Just started working out again 2 months ago and kept seeing videos saying kickbacks were no good but when I would do them it felt like I was working that muscle out good so glad I found justification lol
A long time ago when I started regularly doing these I noticed an almost immediate “awareness” of my triceps. That full contraction was never or very rarely felt any other time during triceps training.
The load was always significantly lower, but if I didn’t do them I felt like something was missing
This is pure comedy at this point. Ever since I've been taking lifting serious again I always get video's telling me how I'm doing it all wrong like clockwork. Like this one, regarding triceps. First I was doing pressdowns, I come home put on RUclips and the first short is about how pressdowns aren't effective but overhead extentions are the best, now I do overhead presses. I did this morning. And then I come home, put on RUclips and now this video is telling me that overhead extentions aren't efficient and now kick backs are the best triceps exercise. I wonder what video I will get next when I start doing kick backs next week... 😂
dumbbells I see are useless on kickbacks, but great tip cables and the tension it provides. awesome sauce.
this is something i noticed naturally just stretching in highschool before i started working out. idk why people don't listen to their own body cause there is SUCHHH a nice burn in the long head pulling by arm more behind my back
Love high rep dumbbell kickbacks as a tricep finisher