I will only try to add to your point as i see it valid through and through by leaving my experience here.i used to play with spyros as a DM for years.i mainly played my dwarven fighter "sandman" wich like any proper dwarf fighter back in 2nd edition had a wisdom and inteligence score of 8.at a point the party was presented with the following riddle:what has cities but no buildings,forests but no trees, sea with no water etc.this was 3rd or 4rth on a sequel of ridles and i was pumped to find one.so as soon as i figured he was describing a map i urged to yell it to my teammates,feeling proud that i secured some exp to us.well i did,for them at least,my penalty for acting "out of character" was bigger then the earnings (as it should be).that made me realise that a character is ment to be a person.with his limitations as abilities,most of the time neither of the 2 are even close to our human ones.after all is a fantasy game....trying to feel real :D
Oopsie 😆 That's a shame, but indeed there was a lesson to be learnt! He's a softie now, he wouldn't have punished you, but would have definitely pointed it out 😉 He never corrects me when my ideas aren't worthy of a 20 intelligence on my wizard though 😜😜😜
Yes! That's a choice the DM makes to minimise the metagaming from players, whether it is intentional or not! And a great way to do that! It's not always viable but it helps a lot when something important is in play. I have a video planed for that too, to talk about the ways we can minimise the risk of unintentional metagaming with tactics like this one. Glad to already know that it'll be useful! 🤗
The problem is when your character has knowledge that you as a player don't have :D :D :D . Jokes aside, the dark side of avoiding metagaming is when some players use it as an excuse to make the game of other players difficult. For example justifying actions because of their alignment (lawful stupid etc). The truth is that it's impossible not to metagame, but we are trying to remain as much in character as possible. The more experienced players become, the less immersed and invested in their characters they become. That's a sad truth. Remember your first character and how deeply you felt everything they went through? And remember your 50th character and how distanced you were from it? It takes people who love immersion in general to remain loyal to the rp and the atmosphere. Lastly, players and DMs who play often, they already know the monsters abilities and how to counter them with their characters (they also know how to design their characters to fit any situation). On the other hand, newbies, have no freaking idea. I have often experienced games where a group can finish a fight very fast and successfully, or it can take ages with great effort (and wipes), just due to the DnD knowledge (or lack thereof) of the players. This could be a flaw of the game.
😂 😂 😂 20 intelligence looking at you! 🙈 Well, that's a problem we can't really solve I'm afraid 😅 As for the lawful stupid... Well, at least that's something we've learnt to just shut down over the years. There is no subtle or convenient way to go about this, we just have the talk. What you say about more experienced players is true too, we do a lot of work behind the scenes to stay invested, personally, I keep journals etc to help me. As for monster stats and tactics, I'll have a video soon with a few tips that can help, so hopefully there will be some solutions in there 😃 It still remains a choice though, for each player to try on their part for an overall better experience around the table 🤷♀️
What I will do much of the time as a DM if there's a situation where not all of the party is privy to certain information, I'll convey that information only to those who are privy to it. In the example of the rogue scouting ahead for traps, I'd tell the rogue privately whether or not there were traps, and then let the rogue decide what to do with the information. The same with the party member making the insight check. This cuts down on the meta-gaming.
Yes absolutely!!!! That's a great tactic! I have a video coming up with such ways to avoid unintentional metagaming and make it easier for everyone, coming soon 😃
For number 3 type of metagaming. For monsters Tasha’s has an excellent page on monster research information. Take an action and roll a skill check then you know things about it. Back in 1E I placed “Monster Manuals” in the treasure. These books were monster lore. So, if your pc had read the monster manual on orcs, I allowed the player to open the Monster Manual to the orc page.
Oh absolutely, skill checks on monster knowledge are part of the fun, however each DM wants to do it! The art on the wall is not from D&D, it's a print from Paolo Barbieri, you can find it here to see with detail: instagram.com/p/CHAncNaMge5/? It's a girl/witch creature!
Metagaming can be good and bad too! Its a thin line... Bad metagaming can be very unpleasant but the good metagaming can be very very helpful! Excellent video!
is really a biased point of view that adds nothing to the dialogue, did you take 1 minute of the video talking about the metagaming that is necessary for the game to run? something to the metagaming that comes into play because there is not a line in the game or mechanics that impose/suggest/remember the master to supply the obvious basically deducible information to players? 99% of the time players are blindly fighting some cultists/assassins that soak hits or are immune to hits with no feedback if they are keeping their guts in place with the belt, or are immune to the weapon and have been just stuck on their bare neck with a two-handed ax and receive neither a bruise what ac has the enemies can be not public information (and this is a choice on of a table want to manage the mechanics of the fight), but that they are wearing a plate mail and use a shield is evident, and is by far a priority in the description of an enemy that knowing that he is a moon-elf dressed as Nerul priest (two information that for many characters would reasonably be beyond two successfully skill check the subtype of elf (nature?) recognizing the deity of the priest from a jolly Roger (religion) a suggestion to call a piece of information as reserved to the party? "hey guys I keep this information for me to use it in a personal sidequest ", after twenty similar situations in which the player shared all the information one must call of the difference or everybody will take it as obvious that he shared.
The next video is all about the metagaming that is necessary for the game to run smoothly, I have mentioned this in this video too. Other than that, I'm really having a hard time understanding your comment.
think a moment in what you or your master describe to the party, then what the player will consider a piece of useful information for the situation, usually there is a wide discrepancy, wider it is more is the desire for the players to look at the stat block of the enemies or the chance that someone is noting the numbers that are and hit and miss to pinpoint the AC, in the 4th edition, there was a condition bloodied that was when a creature was under 50% of hp, a lot of features apply to this status, some creature goes berserk, some character starts hitting harder a bloodied enemy, this was a mechanic to force everyone to signal where the clock of the situation was, it's damn useful cause often after some rounds the master can lose track of how badly the characters are wounded and avoid unintentional kills, but also remained the master to communicate to players that the enemy is wounded and are going down or that he is not, I've seen a ton of fights in which as a player I had no idea if my enemy was on his last leg or he was fresh and can outlast us, everybody that played a fight that goes over the 4th round has been in this situation. on the part of a positive example of metagaming, this is an interesting video of Matthew Colville, that illustrates how he near killed a party by missing to introduce some metagaming information to the party. ruclips.net/video/8Q8bVPpc84A/видео.html
@@igorzuccolin6981 I still don't see how a misstep from the DM leads to intentional metagaming but if your DM and you are on the same page, I'm definitely not here to tell you how to play, as I also said during the video 🤷♀️
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I will only try to add to your point as i see it valid through and through by leaving my experience here.i used to play with spyros as a DM for years.i mainly played my dwarven fighter "sandman" wich like any proper dwarf fighter back in 2nd edition had a wisdom and inteligence score of 8.at a point the party was presented with the following riddle:what has cities but no buildings,forests but no trees, sea with no water etc.this was 3rd or 4rth on a sequel of ridles and i was pumped to find one.so as soon as i figured he was describing a map i urged to yell it to my teammates,feeling proud that i secured some exp to us.well i did,for them at least,my penalty for acting "out of character" was bigger then the earnings (as it should be).that made me realise that a character is ment to be a person.with his limitations as abilities,most of the time neither of the 2 are even close to our human ones.after all is a fantasy game....trying to feel real :D
Oopsie 😆 That's a shame, but indeed there was a lesson to be learnt! He's a softie now, he wouldn't have punished you, but would have definitely pointed it out 😉 He never corrects me when my ideas aren't worthy of a 20 intelligence on my wizard though 😜😜😜
Love you man! Miss you! Good all times! Can't wait to play all together again!
I'm always learning so much from these videos! Thank you, thank you
Yes! That's a choice the DM makes to minimise the metagaming from players, whether it is intentional or not! And a great way to do that! It's not always viable but it helps a lot when something important is in play. I have a video planed for that too, to talk about the ways we can minimise the risk of unintentional metagaming with tactics like this one. Glad to already know that it'll be useful! 🤗
@@MyrtosArtCorner Always!!!!!
@@patirving705 🤗🤗🤗
The problem is when your character has knowledge that you as a player don't have :D :D :D . Jokes aside, the dark side of avoiding metagaming is when some players use it as an excuse to make the game of other players difficult. For example justifying actions because of their alignment (lawful stupid etc). The truth is that it's impossible not to metagame, but we are trying to remain as much in character as possible. The more experienced players become, the less immersed and invested in their characters they become. That's a sad truth. Remember your first character and how deeply you felt everything they went through? And remember your 50th character and how distanced you were from it? It takes people who love immersion in general to remain loyal to the rp and the atmosphere. Lastly, players and DMs who play often, they already know the monsters abilities and how to counter them with their characters (they also know how to design their characters to fit any situation). On the other hand, newbies, have no freaking idea. I have often experienced games where a group can finish a fight very fast and successfully, or it can take ages with great effort (and wipes), just due to the DnD knowledge (or lack thereof) of the players. This could be a flaw of the game.
😂 😂 😂 20 intelligence looking at you! 🙈 Well, that's a problem we can't really solve I'm afraid 😅 As for the lawful stupid... Well, at least that's something we've learnt to just shut down over the years. There is no subtle or convenient way to go about this, we just have the talk. What you say about more experienced players is true too, we do a lot of work behind the scenes to stay invested, personally, I keep journals etc to help me. As for monster stats and tactics, I'll have a video soon with a few tips that can help, so hopefully there will be some solutions in there 😃 It still remains a choice though, for each player to try on their part for an overall better experience around the table 🤷♀️
Totally agree on the metaming and the problems it can cause in the gameplay and the experience of the whole party. Great video!
Thank you so much!!!! It's a big subject and it definitely needs caution!
What I will do much of the time as a DM if there's a situation where not all of the party is privy to certain information, I'll convey that information only to those who are privy to it. In the example of the rogue scouting ahead for traps, I'd tell the rogue privately whether or not there were traps, and then let the rogue decide what to do with the information. The same with the party member making the insight check. This cuts down on the meta-gaming.
Yes absolutely!!!! That's a great tactic! I have a video coming up with such ways to avoid unintentional metagaming and make it easier for everyone, coming soon 😃
For number 3 type of metagaming. For monsters Tasha’s has an excellent page on monster research information. Take an action and roll a skill check then you know things about it. Back in 1E I placed “Monster Manuals” in the treasure. These books were monster lore. So, if your pc had read the monster manual on orcs, I allowed the player to open the Monster Manual to the orc page.
The artwork in the background with the pumpkin. What is the creature above the pumpkin?
Oh absolutely, skill checks on monster knowledge are part of the fun, however each DM wants to do it!
The art on the wall is not from D&D, it's a print from Paolo Barbieri, you can find it here to see with detail:
instagram.com/p/CHAncNaMge5/? It's a girl/witch creature!
Metagaming can be good and bad too! Its a thin line... Bad metagaming can be very unpleasant but the good metagaming can be very very helpful! Excellent video!
Agree! More videos coming up on the positive metagaming too! Thank you so much!!!!
Metagaming is part of d&d! If we can avoid and/or minimize the bad, the game will be always better!
Absolutely!!!! Thank you so much for watching!!
is really a biased point of view that adds nothing to the dialogue, did you take 1 minute of the video talking about the metagaming that is necessary for the game to run? something to the metagaming that comes into play because there is not a line in the game or mechanics that impose/suggest/remember the master to supply the obvious basically deducible information to players?
99% of the time players are blindly fighting some cultists/assassins that soak hits or are immune to hits with no feedback if they are keeping their guts in place with the belt, or are immune to the weapon and have been just stuck on their bare neck with a two-handed ax and receive neither a bruise
what ac has the enemies can be not public information (and this is a choice on of a table want to manage the mechanics of the fight), but that they are wearing a plate mail and use a shield is evident, and is by far a priority in the description of an enemy that knowing that he is a moon-elf dressed as Nerul priest (two information that for many characters would reasonably be beyond two successfully skill check the subtype of elf (nature?) recognizing the deity of the priest from a jolly Roger (religion)
a suggestion to call a piece of information as reserved to the party? "hey guys I keep this information for me to use it in a personal sidequest ", after twenty similar situations in which the player shared all the information one must call of the difference or everybody will take it as obvious that he shared.
The next video is all about the metagaming that is necessary for the game to run smoothly, I have mentioned this in this video too. Other than that, I'm really having a hard time understanding your comment.
think a moment in what you or your master describe to the party, then what the player will consider a piece of useful information for the situation, usually there is a wide discrepancy, wider it is more is the desire for the players to look at the stat block of the enemies or the chance that someone is noting the numbers that are and hit and miss to pinpoint the AC,
in the 4th edition, there was a condition bloodied that was when a creature was under 50% of hp, a lot of features apply to this status, some creature goes berserk, some character starts hitting harder a bloodied enemy, this was a mechanic to force everyone to signal where the clock of the situation was, it's damn useful cause often after some rounds the master can lose track of how badly the characters are wounded and avoid unintentional kills, but also remained the master to communicate to players that the enemy is wounded and are going down or that he is not, I've seen a ton of fights in which as a player I had no idea if my enemy was on his last leg or he was fresh and can outlast us, everybody that played a fight that goes over the 4th round has been in this situation.
on the part of a positive example of metagaming, this is an interesting video of Matthew Colville, that illustrates how he near killed a party by missing to introduce some metagaming information to the party.
ruclips.net/video/8Q8bVPpc84A/видео.html
@@igorzuccolin6981 I still don't see how a misstep from the DM leads to intentional metagaming but if your DM and you are on the same page, I'm definitely not here to tell you how to play, as I also said during the video 🤷♀️