Note that it’s also possible to achieve isobaric with drivers nested magnet to cone, or even back to back - think KEF Blade - for a more aesthetically sleek design, but the build will be a bit more complicated. I’ve done several of the latter configuration in not just subs, but “fullrange” multi-way towers as well; this arrangement can also significantly reduce cabinet panel resonances.
So I used these GRS speakers in some enclosures that I designed with the help of WinISD and this video--2 enclosures of 7 cu ft each. They're big but my gosh, it's incredible. It makes my home theater sound like the movie theater. My wife said tonight, "why do you need it to shake the whole house?" and that confirmed that I had made the right choice. My first sub build and it was a huge success. Thanks for the inspiration!
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing! If you're up to it, we would love to see some of the pictures. Throw some up on the forum. Or even a quick video. I would love to see it. toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/
I seriously appreciate your videos. Been watching for several years here and there but recently subscribed because I’m going full DIY on my next home theater system. So many options available on your channel, and your level of knowledge and willingness to share is second to none. Thanks so much Toid!
I built two enclosures with 4 Skar Audio IX-10 D2 10" 400 each. powered by Crown XLS 2002. that's eight subs at 4 ohms. This is one outstanding sub. I have tuned in at 24hz. and frankly, I have unlimited power. since I own a brand new Yamaha RX-A6A with independent sub-outputs. I have every 4 subs on one side. spending $2000 -$ 4000 on a retail sub is insane. there is a company called stereo integrity. they make the best subs I ever heard,
I built a box with just 1 of the GRS 12 4he version - down firing. The internal volume came out to 3.85 Cu Ft. Using 4" abs for the port. It sounds great and goes down to around. 18hz. I added a 5/8 inch thick mdf top and did an epoxy pour on it. Turned out beautifully. Looks like a nice coffee table in the corner near the couch (main listening position.
The first original maker of this type of speaker system was AWA in Australia in the 1960's. They used 2 x 8inch speakers face to face, and the performance was equal to a Certwin Vega 15inch bass speaker.
Sometime the least expensivce is also the vest for your application, you know the room , what amp, all the thing many people do not know when buying a pre made sub. Good luck with this idea
Nice work! Looks like the subs will stay relatively cool drawing just 62.5 watts each. If you want a smaller box you can add mass to the cones at the expense of sensitivity. I found out long ago that you can have 2 out of 3 of the following but not all 3 at once. Efficiency, low frequency extension and small enclosure size.
@@Xbs_Rebasscould also put both isobaric pairs into an isobaric configuration, which would cut box size and efficiency in half again, but then design the box with a rise of 3 db right around the target frequency. as long as the response is relatively flat within the passband, tuning will allow for an even smaller box. so give up 3db, but have a box potentially in the 1.5-2cuft range.
I have one of the 8" version of those subwoofers. For the $20 its really great. Now that I know I like them I think Ill buy another and one of their high output ones. Then put the 2 normal 8" into my wife's speaker cabinet. It just has cheap Zenith paper cones from the 70's right now.
Clamshell is great for a really small enclosure. However, if you don't want to turn the enclosure into a table & don't want to see the magnets, you can make 4 holes (2x front, 2x rear) & you see nothing but cone w/ the magnets inside. This method is only viable if you don't require the smallest size a clamshell orientation can allow though. Good video!
Great to see, I'm not the only one using isobaric subwoofer. I'm using 4 subs with RCF P400 18" woofer in 150L enclosure tuned to 25Hz. PS keep the distance between the Woofers to a minimum. AWESOME 😲👍👊
You mean the isobaric distance, or the distance they are side to side? Should the surrounds ever *touch* in isobaric loading? I really don't know how that works, at all...
Fantastic video! I was in the middle of designing an isobaric sub using the new HE variants of the same driver you are using and I stumbled on this video. You took away all my doubts!
and clamshell desing also cancel 2nd order distortion making it even cleaner, plus back side of woofer for some reason also has higher Sd, so even more air contact
Everyone tells me isobaric is an old alignment that's no longer viable or necessary. This shows why it is...space savings! Great build! I may have to build an end table version of one of these for my theater.
Actually it is an old alignment that's no longer viable or necessary, because it's possible to design woofers that perform the same way with just a single conventional driver. But the 10SW-4 are an example of the drivers that used to be common when isobaric alignments were popular, and it works. It shows the main limiting factor of this woofer design is the strength of its motor.
This woofer is available now so the alignment is still viable. Sure you can design a woofer with higher motor strength and cone stiffness that wouldn't require iso but it would be far more expensive. Again, ISO is still 100% viable in the year 2021.
@@jstrahn Perhaps, but consider the cost impact of Isobaric. When you couple two woofers together, that requires you first buy two woofers. And you don't gain any swept volume capability; both woofers are acting on the same piston diameter and can only move it so far. If you can design one woofer (or find one off the shelf) to do the same work, while keeping it slightly less expensive than 2x the cost of the cheap woofer, then you've already come out ahead.
@@Acoustic_Theory So show me the 10" sub for $40 that matches this. That can play as low with as much output in the same amount of space. The last point being the key. It is viable because it brings the space requirement down to a manageable level.
I’m building 2) 3cuft sealed boxes with 2 JBL 2226h in each box mounted face to face. The drivers were sourced on EBay and Reverb. The last isobaric subwoofer I built went down to seismic frequencies.
Of course your large sealed system will be the best, I'm sealed fan myself...the BR is OK and the performance is nice, but do you hear some mechanical noise from the reversed drivers. When I made push pulls like this the noise was always a drawback.
i recently made a new enclosure for my old z2300 sub (only used the sub for a few years) and well, F3 of the original was 56Hz, new F3 is 27, it's incredible what you can do with existing speakers and 30€ for mdf gets you
Nice! I looked at these a while back and though they seemed to go pretty deep, the box size just was way too big for 1 driver, as you said. Using 4 in an isobaric/compound combination really made it easy to place design back to being able to model on just 1 driver, albeit with much more power handling. Hmm. Maybe I'll revisit them and see what they can do in a bandpass configuration... Also, you could get some nice gloss black paint and detail the bare backsides of those outside drivers. Your own artistic ability is the only limit.
Bandpass doesn't model well, at least with my old calculator. Too high of a Qts. But the quick calcs show that optimum ported box should have a Fb of just over 24 Hz and an F3 of 17 Hz. Interesting.
@@TheTrueVoiceOfReason yeah I was trying six order bandpass and it really didn't model well. It was basically giving you an f3 in the 60hz range and an f3 in the 28 Hertz range I think. It just really wasn't what I was hoping for
I enjoyed this video Toid. I just bought a set of inexpensive subwoofers. the GRS 10SW-4HE. They are currently about $55 each Of course the QES is much lower as it has a much stronger motor and 11mm Xmax vs 8.5 compared to the ones you used in your video. They model very well in WinISD. I suspect they may not of been available at the time you built your project. I was going to build them with a ported enclosure but now decided to just go with a sealed design. I figure with room gain I should be just fine; but now wish I had bought the 12SW-4HE's they work in the same size box but handle about double the power before XMax is an issue. I have done that a lot. Buy drivers only to change my mind for a different pair before I even start to build the enclosure.
I shook my front metal door with just one 8” sub at 18Hz. I placed it in a PVC tube about 96” long and 4” diameter. That’s all it took. Simple, light, loud, efficient.
@@Bassotronics Do you happen to know how low of a frequency it can do? I can't seem to find a sub that can hit down to 20 Hz. I'm wanting to build this for my van. A long tube enclosure would be perfect for what I want to do.
I like these odd ideas and low bass! I recently build a sub that hits 14 Hz with only 1 10" driver. OK, it's a little more expensive, but not too much. I used a Seas L26ROY with a 4 m long folded transmission line in a 2 m tall tower.
Next time try modelling the subs using Basta. Basta can actually account for port losses and power handling to predict a more accurate max SPL response.
I have a Bag End setup in my home theater. A pair of Dual 18" with their ELF1 processor. These subs are 4 ohm. I drive these with a Krell FPB600, which easily makes 1800 watts a channel at 4 ohms. This setup will go to 8Hz. But its a little more than $100.
That's cool. I like to use their GRS12SW for cheap sub builds. Just a few dollars more for the 12" version and needs a smaller cabinet. But It's not anything like my Dayton DCS450. I have it in a sealed box with the Dayton DSP-LF and it is so clean and sensitive for movies.
A couple years ago I bought 20 of 12 inch versions for around 14 bucks each, I haven't done it yet but I want to build a infinite baffle with all of them running off of a big crown amplifier. I have everything to build it but I just don't have the time
@@Ohm_Breaker Sorry to say I never got around to even starting the project but I do have 20 of the GRS 12SW-4 12" subwoofers and the amp is a Crown XLI 3500. All the stuff is now about 5 years old but still new in the box. The past few years I’ve only been home long enough to sleep and shower. I still do plan on building the described infinite baffle, it should only take a weekend. There’s a bedroom with a 7’ wide closet on the other side of the living room. I’m going to use the wall separating the living room from the closet/bedroom to mount all 20 drivers in between the studs in 5 groups of 4 subs per bay. That’s the extremely simple layman’s rundown of what I plan on doing. The project you plan on building sounds awesome, I would like to hear more about it.
All parts, out the door, with the Dayton SPA 250, extra speaker wire etc. is actually closer to $400. That being said, I am nearly done with this build and couldn't be more excited! P..S. this sub/box is much bigger than you think
It's nice to see some who is willing to think outside the box, pardon the pun cool idea 💡 I have an up firing 6" sub in a tube, it fires into a cross ❌ tube, after seeing what you did, I'm going to fit another sub on top and push pull, but using the cross ❌ tube idea 💡.
I have. If I remember correctly the 12-in version didn't model nearly as well. I think it went lower, but it needed a huge box. But I haven't modeled it currently so I'm just going off of memory.
I have 2 of the 12's, converted an old stereo cabinet from the 60's to a dedicated sub cabinet. These guys hit down to 17 in my cabinet( both downfiring), the whole damn house shakes on 400 watts!
Very nice video. For those who may be more cosmetically oriented, as you mentioned and may not like the look, these could easily be compound loaded with the usual cone facing outward design. In this case the second woofer behind will be facing the same direction and it's cone spaced just far enough behind the magnet of the first one. The cardboard coupling chamber can be made using heavy duty concrete pour tubes cut into rings and wood glued between the same facing woofers. Of course, in this case the woofers will be wired together in phase.
Back in 90's when home theater subs only came with 100 watt amplifiers I went down to a local car audio shop and picked a 12 inch orion in a 4th order sub box with external amplifier and Omg bass for my home theater was insane. I now own 4 definitive super cubes best bass ever.... 🔊
So I got all geared up to order the 4 subs and it's out of stock everywhere. However, the GRS 12SW-4 12" are in stock and only $10 more a piece. They seem to have a lower frequency, but I don't want to get in over my head in designing the box. Should I be able to use the same dimensions as you use? Or should I research the proper calculation for 4 of those in isobaric load?
I had 4 of these in a car in a 5cu.ft. box on 500 watts rms and they sounded nice but they were pretty quiet, one 600 watt audiopipe 12 in a 2.5 cu.ft. box was louder and the audiopipe was $65 vs the grs at $80 and the 12 hit the lows way better but the grs are great if you aren't going for volume
Did you see the Boss CXX10 CHAOS EXXTREME? It's very slightly different in Xmax (1.5mm less) and SPL (1dB less) and is $4 more, but it ups the power from 120/240W (GRS) to 400/800W. Need a slightly bigger box (6.375^3') and the ports need an extra 1.5".
@@Toid I build a box for a guy's SUV. In a 10 cu. Ft. Box tuned to 33Hz the Boss Phantom 12's (four of them) sounded... Kind of pesky/poppy/shitty. They are not constructed better than these woofers. They are poly cone, rubber surround, not very large ferrite magnet, and i think 2 inch voice coil. Over $80 each for them. I was not impressed. For fun, i hooked them up to a 50W x2 amp (all four lol) and they sounded decent on that, actually. They did not particularly like high wattage I think. The Kickers he replaced them with did better. I'm not a Boss fan. Lying to consumers.
loaded question. if you are comparing two identical speakers, the isobaric will outperform a single speaker in quality due to the added motor to control the same amount of air space. adding increased cost to achieve increased quality very similar to choosing a better speaker, most typically. This is a process used before we had dual voice coils and stacked magnets. Not as common anymore.
@@dluepnitz Thanks, no one answered this quesion like you, everyone says it's outdated but no one said why, I guess the "had dual voice coils and stacked magnets" is the answer.
Only thing is, might want to be careful with these though, the power rating is for thermal performance only, and xmax is quite easy to reach, so go easy with them!
I have two of the high excursion GRS 12's being driving by that Icepower amp project you talked me into. The bass was so unreal in my media room that I had to relocate the thing to my garage because even my teenage kids were compaining that pictures were rattling on the walls upstairs. So i sit here with them belching some Weeknd (and related) for the appreciative neighbors. They were 60 bucks a piece and I tossed them in 1.25 ft3 sealed boxes. They are comically strong. Almost embarrassing. Almost.
Haha, that is awesome. I haven't had any experience with those ones yet, but I've heard good things. Sometimes it's just amazing what you can DIY for the price. Sounds like you found the perfect sweet spot for that.
so if i make it into a table like you said, do i have to glue stuff on there lol? would be pretty annoying to remove all the placeables to play a speaker
Hie ...there is something that i need to ask ....so when making an isobaric box we we half the internal volume that I understand, what about the port does it stay the same as it would be in a full sized volume box for one sub or it must be adjusted also?....
I'm actually sitting about 5 feet from a ported 18" cabinet that's almost exactly 6 cubic feet after accounting for driver and structural volumes :D tuned to approximately 27 Hz but it's for my bass guitar so that's plenty low, I had to downtune my 5-string 2 full steps to hit that low G at 24.50 Hz, and considering going lower since it's still quite loud and tonal. Might even go all the way to E0 (20.60Hz) on my B0 string since there's still enough SPL to hurt your unprotected ears
I have Morel Octwin 5.2 home speakers with the 10" Isobaric loaded subwoofers and I can say these drop cleanly below 20Hz with ease! I also love the fact that an Isobaric configuration also cuts the distortion level by half at the same frequencies.
@@potatojake197 Yea maybe... Gonna simulate that tommorow morning in hornresp. I probably have to go for isobaric loading no matter wich driver's as i don't have much room.
Thanks for this video, it highly reminds me of a idea i had.... : -) I build my own subwoofer years ago which is a isobaric single reflex type with 2x 10" speakers and a build in amp, it serves as a side table and weighs in at 55 Kg (121 Pounds) The subwoofer manages to put out just a notch under 30Hz, it still makes for some unexpected moments when a low frequency sound effect in a movie kicks in.
Given two subwoofers, would switching the phase and driver direction within and between the cabinets usefully reduce mechanically induced distortion? This might be beneficial at extreme excursions though whether the ear is sensitive to it or not is another issue. Great channel! Thanks for another great video!
What about building 2 boxes, each with 2 woofers and wiring them to the one amp? Could one then have the benefits of effectively having a pair of subwoofers with the benefits that brings?
You can definitely do that. I thought about doing it myself. The main benefit is being able to position your subwoofers so that you get smoother base response across a wider area.
What did you do to get WinISD to play nice with the specs of the driver? No matter what I do, it throws integrity errors and gives really odd graphs, other tools seem to have integrity issues as well. I was curious about comparing the standard variant to the high excursion variant, I was also curious about comparisons of the 8s, 12s, and 15s in both lines.
I have crown xls 1502 2pcs . I want to build reference series 8-10 inc subwoofer for music . What brand sub speaker do you particularly recommend for my project ?
Nice!!! I have a very difficult question that i haven't find on google,... on a Woofer for a concert, like nexo, D&B Audiotechnik, HK audio, ETC, wich is the correct HZ tunning on a vented enclosure... Those brands, which are the Correct HZ tunned??? I have an 18+ Sound 18" inch 2000 Watt
Would have likes to see some bassy music pumping thru those. Also maybe a shot of the windows shaking tooo. Great build otherwise perfect for a basshead 🙌🙌🙌🙌👍👍👍👍
How would the 12” version of the sub stack up? I have a pair of Dayton sub 1200s that I love but they don’t hit low enough for me. Would this be a worthwhile upgrade if I swapped the woofers out and used the same box / amp? Anything else that would Give me an upgrade to that setup?
I watched this and immediately thought it was too good to be true. But is it? Where would the high end subwoofer outperform this setup? How would the sound compare to a high end subwoofer? If you wanted to push it to the max what amplifier be? Are you using a DSP to get this flat curve? Awesome video!
@@Toid Do you think a DSP could pull some ULF without damaging the subs? I would love a budget sub like this that could hit the emergency button of the brain😉
Note that it’s also possible to achieve isobaric with drivers nested magnet to cone, or even back to back - think KEF Blade - for a more aesthetically sleek design, but the build will be a bit more complicated.
I’ve done several of the latter configuration in not just subs, but “fullrange” multi-way towers as well; this arrangement can also significantly reduce cabinet panel resonances.
These subs are 2x the price now, glad you were able to get a good deal!
Right now, (Oct 2024), they are $21ea at Parts Express. So a great deal again.
So I used these GRS speakers in some enclosures that I designed with the help of WinISD and this video--2 enclosures of 7 cu ft each. They're big but my gosh, it's incredible. It makes my home theater sound like the movie theater. My wife said tonight, "why do you need it to shake the whole house?" and that confirmed that I had made the right choice. My first sub build and it was a huge success. Thanks for the inspiration!
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing! If you're up to it, we would love to see some of the pictures. Throw some up on the forum. Or even a quick video. I would love to see it. toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/
@@Toid Will do!
I can't hear any of the 20hz through my phone speaker therefore this sub must not work.
Haha! Best comment ever!
@Yama Fanboy The Forbidden Knowledge
Did you know phone speakers are weak?
🤣🤣
You need 4 iPhones to hear it
Loved this video, it just goes to show that Knowledge and Specs can get you what you want without having to spend an arm and a leg !!
I seriously appreciate your videos. Been watching for several years here and there but recently subscribed because I’m going full DIY on my next home theater system. So many options available on your channel, and your level of knowledge and willingness to share is second to none. Thanks so much Toid!
I built two enclosures with 4 Skar Audio IX-10 D2 10" 400 each. powered by Crown XLS 2002. that's eight subs at 4 ohms. This is one outstanding sub. I have tuned in at 24hz. and frankly, I have unlimited power. since I own a brand new Yamaha RX-A6A with independent sub-outputs. I have every 4 subs on one side. spending $2000 -$ 4000 on a retail sub is insane.
there is a company called stereo integrity. they make the best subs I ever heard,
I built a box with just 1 of the GRS 12 4he version - down firing. The internal volume came out to 3.85 Cu Ft. Using 4" abs for the port. It sounds great and goes down to around. 18hz. I added a 5/8 inch thick mdf top and did an epoxy pour on it. Turned out beautifully. Looks like a nice coffee table in the corner near the couch (main listening position.
The first original maker of this type of speaker system was AWA in Australia in the 1960's. They used 2 x 8inch speakers face to face, and the performance was equal to a Certwin Vega 15inch bass speaker.
Sometime the least expensivce is also the vest for your application, you know the room , what amp, all the thing many people do not know when buying a pre made sub. Good luck with this idea
Nice work! Looks like the subs will stay relatively cool drawing just 62.5 watts each. If you want a smaller box you can add mass to the cones at the expense of sensitivity.
I found out long ago that you can have 2 out of 3 of the following but not all 3 at once. Efficiency, low frequency extension and small enclosure size.
i'd give up a little bit of the lows and tune it to 28-34 hz so I could get 1.5-2.5 cubes instead
@@Xbs_Rebasscould also put both isobaric pairs into an isobaric configuration, which would cut box size and efficiency in half again, but then design the box with a rise of 3 db right around the target frequency. as long as the response is relatively flat within the passband, tuning will allow for an even smaller box. so give up 3db, but have a box potentially in the 1.5-2cuft range.
I have one of the 8" version of those subwoofers. For the $20 its really great. Now that I know I like them I think Ill buy another and one of their high output ones. Then put the 2 normal 8" into my wife's speaker cabinet. It just has cheap Zenith paper cones from the 70's right now.
Clamshell is great for a really small enclosure. However, if you don't want to turn the enclosure into a table & don't want to see the magnets, you can make 4 holes (2x front, 2x rear) & you see nothing but cone w/ the magnets inside. This method is only viable if you don't require the smallest size a clamshell orientation can allow though. Good video!
Great to see, I'm not the only one using isobaric subwoofer. I'm using 4 subs with RCF P400 18" woofer in 150L enclosure tuned to 25Hz.
PS keep the distance between the Woofers to a minimum. AWESOME 😲👍👊
You mean the isobaric distance, or the distance they are side to side? Should the surrounds ever *touch* in isobaric loading? I really don't know how that works, at all...
Fantastic video! I was in the middle of designing an isobaric sub using the new HE variants of the same driver you are using and I stumbled on this video. You took away all my doubts!
Oh yeah We were just talking about a design using the he on the Forum. toidsdiyaudio.com/community/postid/7148/
this should get 2 million views
and clamshell desing also cancel 2nd order distortion making it even cleaner, plus back side of woofer for some reason also has higher Sd, so even more air contact
Everyone tells me isobaric is an old alignment that's no longer viable or necessary. This shows why it is...space savings! Great build! I may have to build an end table version of one of these for my theater.
Agreed! All alignments are viable, to someone.
Actually it is an old alignment that's no longer viable or necessary, because it's possible to design woofers that perform the same way with just a single conventional driver. But the 10SW-4 are an example of the drivers that used to be common when isobaric alignments were popular, and it works. It shows the main limiting factor of this woofer design is the strength of its motor.
This woofer is available now so the alignment is still viable. Sure you can design a woofer with higher motor strength and cone stiffness that wouldn't require iso but it would be far more expensive. Again, ISO is still 100% viable in the year 2021.
@@jstrahn Perhaps, but consider the cost impact of Isobaric. When you couple two woofers together, that requires you first buy two woofers. And you don't gain any swept volume capability; both woofers are acting on the same piston diameter and can only move it so far. If you can design one woofer (or find one off the shelf) to do the same work, while keeping it slightly less expensive than 2x the cost of the cheap woofer, then you've already come out ahead.
@@Acoustic_Theory So show me the 10" sub for $40 that matches this. That can play as low with as much output in the same amount of space. The last point being the key. It is viable because it brings the space requirement down to a manageable level.
I’m building 2) 3cuft sealed boxes with 2 JBL 2226h in each box mounted face to face. The drivers were sourced on EBay and Reverb.
The last isobaric subwoofer I built went down to seismic frequencies.
Of course your large sealed system will be the best, I'm sealed fan myself...the BR is OK and the performance is nice, but do you hear some mechanical noise from the reversed drivers. When I made push pulls like this the noise was always a drawback.
i recently made a new enclosure for my old z2300 sub (only used the sub for a few years) and well, F3 of the original was 56Hz, new F3 is 27, it's incredible what you can do with existing speakers and 30€ for mdf gets you
I have a working Z2300. One of the best ever. It sits collecting dust now. Congrats on your refresh.
Nice!
I looked at these a while back and though they seemed to go pretty deep, the box size just was way too big for 1 driver, as you said. Using 4 in an isobaric/compound combination really made it easy to place design back to being able to model on just 1 driver, albeit with much more power handling.
Hmm.
Maybe I'll revisit them and see what they can do in a bandpass configuration...
Also, you could get some nice gloss black paint and detail the bare backsides of those outside drivers. Your own artistic ability is the only limit.
Bandpass doesn't model well, at least with my old calculator. Too high of a Qts.
But the quick calcs show that optimum ported box should have a Fb of just over 24 Hz and an F3 of 17 Hz. Interesting.
@@TheTrueVoiceOfReason yeah I was trying six order bandpass and it really didn't model well. It was basically giving you an f3 in the 60hz range and an f3 in the 28 Hertz range I think. It just really wasn't what I was hoping for
I enjoyed this video Toid. I just bought a set of inexpensive subwoofers. the GRS 10SW-4HE. They are currently about $55 each Of course the QES is much lower as it has a much stronger motor and 11mm Xmax vs 8.5 compared to the ones you used in your video. They model very well in WinISD. I suspect they may not of been available at the time you built your project. I was going to build them with a ported enclosure but now decided to just go with a sealed design. I figure with room gain I should be just fine; but now wish I had bought the 12SW-4HE's they work in the same size box but handle about double the power before XMax is an issue. I have done that a lot. Buy drivers only to change my mind for a different pair before I even start to build the enclosure.
Killer build! Loved the intro
Thanks man! I appreciate that!
I shook my front metal door with just one 8” sub at 18Hz.
I placed it in a PVC tube about 96” long and 4” diameter. That’s all it took. Simple, light, loud, efficient.
How does an 8 inch speaker fit a 4 inch tube? I'd like to build that.
@@kleinstruction874
You need an 8" diameter PVC or Cardboard tube, then adapt it to fit the 4" tube.
I'm very intrigued. Which specific 8" driver are we talking? This sounds like an interesting experiment
@@sule_imani
Could be any high powered 8”.
The one I used was Massive Audio Hippo
@@Bassotronics Do you happen to know how low of a frequency it can do? I can't seem to find a sub that can hit down to 20 Hz. I'm wanting to build this for my van. A long tube enclosure would be perfect for what I want to do.
I like these odd ideas and low bass!
I recently build a sub that hits 14 Hz with only 1 10" driver. OK, it's a little more expensive, but not too much. I used a Seas L26ROY with a 4 m long folded transmission line in a 2 m tall tower.
Just a little bit more expensive 😂 Sounds like an awesome build!
Next time try modelling the subs using Basta. Basta can actually account for port losses and power handling to predict a more accurate max SPL response.
I have a Bag End setup in my home theater. A pair of Dual 18" with their ELF1 processor. These subs are 4 ohm. I drive these with a Krell FPB600, which easily makes 1800 watts a channel at 4 ohms. This setup will go to 8Hz. But its a little more than $100.
Haven't heard isobaric since my younger days when I studied car stereo relentlessly. Always wanted to do a tube style clear plexiglass isobaric setup.
Low low bass is great. I'd love more of the builds on some DIY channels to be about producing the best sound quality not loudest and lowest.
That's cool. I like to use their GRS12SW for cheap sub builds. Just a few dollars more for the 12" version and needs a smaller cabinet. But It's not anything like my Dayton DCS450. I have it in a sealed box with the Dayton DSP-LF and it is so clean and sensitive for movies.
Amar Bose had this design in the Bose 701 . It's brilliant.
In '94 i ran 4 15" orion xtr duals in a clam shell design n powered them with a earthquake p4300 4 channel amp. I cdnt keep my car together
Would you be able to make a box that fits in the floor joists. I’ve always wanted to try it.
A couple years ago I bought 20 of 12 inch versions for around 14 bucks each, I haven't done it yet but I want to build a infinite baffle with all of them running off of a big crown amplifier. I have everything to build it but I just don't have the time
Did you get around to going this?
If so how did it go?
I'm planning a biuld with 16x grs 15pf-8 with each one in a H frame.
@@Ohm_Breaker Sorry to say I never got around to even starting the project but I do have 20 of the GRS 12SW-4 12" subwoofers and the amp is a Crown XLI 3500. All the stuff is now about 5 years old but still new in the box. The past few years I’ve only been home long enough to sleep and shower. I still do plan on building the described infinite baffle, it should only take a weekend. There’s a bedroom with a 7’ wide closet on the other side of the living room. I’m going to use the wall separating the living room from the closet/bedroom to mount all 20 drivers in between the studs in 5 groups of 4 subs per bay. That’s the extremely simple layman’s rundown of what I plan on doing. The project you plan on building sounds awesome, I would like to hear more about it.
All parts, out the door, with the Dayton SPA 250, extra speaker wire etc. is actually closer to $400. That being said, I am nearly done with this build and couldn't be more excited! P..S. this sub/box is much bigger than you think
Sweet! Can't wait to see the final project!
Awesome Video! Isobaric loading can be very interesting for some drivers!
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to do it with some crazy expensive drivers, but it works for this.
I liked the downfiring table, nice video!
It's nice to see some who is willing to think outside the box, pardon the pun cool idea 💡 I have an up firing 6" sub in a tube, it fires into a cross ❌ tube, after seeing what you did, I'm going to fit another sub on top and push pull, but using the cross ❌ tube idea 💡.
So glad I got to see the build, awesome!
Have you modeled the 12" version of these subs?
I have. If I remember correctly the 12-in version didn't model nearly as well. I think it went lower, but it needed a huge box. But I haven't modeled it currently so I'm just going off of memory.
I have 2 of the 12's, converted an old stereo cabinet from the 60's to a dedicated sub cabinet. These guys hit down to 17 in my cabinet( both downfiring), the whole damn house shakes on 400 watts!
Very nice video. For those who may be more cosmetically oriented, as you mentioned and may not like the look, these could easily be compound loaded with the usual cone facing outward design. In this case the second woofer behind will be facing the same direction and it's cone spaced just far enough behind the magnet of the first one. The cardboard coupling chamber can be made using heavy duty concrete pour tubes cut into rings and wood glued between the same facing woofers. Of course, in this case the woofers will be wired together in phase.
Antônio from Brazil. Nice job changing 0,9 QTS cheap drive to a 0,45 Qts nice subwoofer.
Back in 90's when home theater subs only came with 100 watt amplifiers I went down to a local car audio shop and picked a 12 inch orion in a 4th order sub box with external amplifier and Omg bass for my home theater was insane. I now own 4 definitive super cubes best bass ever.... 🔊
So I got all geared up to order the 4 subs and it's out of stock everywhere. However, the GRS 12SW-4 12" are in stock and only $10 more a piece. They seem to have a lower frequency, but I don't want to get in over my head in designing the box. Should I be able to use the same dimensions as you use? Or should I research the proper calculation for 4 of those in isobaric load?
I haven't designed a box around the 12s.
@@Toid can you point me in the right direction so I can design one myself? Are there size requirements formulas I need to be aware of?
@@Padenormous why don't you start asking on the forum and we can help out. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/community
Is there any sort of double cone filler that you can suspend between the two woofers for improved isobaric coupling by reducing the airspace?
Great video
That Bass is what I give my neighbors, sundown audio x18 and 4000 watts driving by slow and loud LOL 🤤 gotta love it
Nice budget! May I suggest painting "eyes" on the rear of the woofers.
I had 4 of these in a car in a 5cu.ft. box on 500 watts rms and they sounded nice but they were pretty quiet, one 600 watt audiopipe 12 in a 2.5 cu.ft. box was louder and the audiopipe was $65 vs the grs at $80 and the 12 hit the lows way better but the grs are great if you aren't going for volume
Did you see the Boss CXX10 CHAOS EXXTREME? It's very slightly different in Xmax (1.5mm less) and SPL (1dB less) and is $4 more, but it ups the power from 120/240W (GRS) to 400/800W. Need a slightly bigger box (6.375^3') and the ports need an extra 1.5".
Boss is one of those brands that I don't trust their specs. So if have to get one in and see how close the specs are to their published specs.
@@Toid I build a box for a guy's SUV. In a 10 cu. Ft. Box tuned to 33Hz the Boss Phantom 12's (four of them) sounded... Kind of pesky/poppy/shitty. They are not constructed better than these woofers. They are poly cone, rubber surround, not very large ferrite magnet, and i think 2 inch voice coil. Over $80 each for them. I was not impressed. For fun, i hooked them up to a 50W x2 amp (all four lol) and they sounded decent on that, actually. They did not particularly like high wattage I think. The Kickers he replaced them with did better.
I'm not a Boss fan. Lying to consumers.
Will a single speaker beat the isobaric in sub sound quality if we don't care about the box size?
loaded question. if you are comparing two identical speakers, the isobaric will outperform a single speaker in quality due to the added motor to control the same amount of air space. adding increased cost to achieve increased quality very similar to choosing a better speaker, most typically. This is a process used before we had dual voice coils and stacked magnets. Not as common anymore.
@@dluepnitz Thanks, no one answered this quesion like you, everyone says it's outdated but no one said why, I guess the "had dual voice coils and stacked magnets" is the answer.
Have (4) of these 10 in grs in my car for the last 3 years. They sound great. Run the grs 6.5 (2) per front door also sound great for the price
Some of the GRS subs are staggering good for the price point.
5:18 no it really looks like the face of
"HOLY SHIT 20HZ BASS!!!" OoO
I like your build, exposed subwoofers looks awesome!
Another awesome build and video Nick! I might need to go out on a spend soon! 😁
Only thing is, might want to be careful with these though, the power rating is for thermal performance only, and xmax is quite easy to reach, so go easy with them!
I have two of the high excursion GRS 12's being driving by that Icepower amp project you talked me into. The bass was so unreal in my media room that I had to relocate the thing to my garage because even my teenage kids were compaining that pictures were rattling on the walls upstairs. So i sit here with them belching some Weeknd (and related) for the appreciative neighbors. They were 60 bucks a piece and I tossed them in 1.25 ft3 sealed boxes. They are comically strong. Almost embarrassing. Almost.
Haha, that is awesome. I haven't had any experience with those ones yet, but I've heard good things. Sometimes it's just amazing what you can DIY for the price. Sounds like you found the perfect sweet spot for that.
so if i make it into a table like you said, do i have to glue stuff on there lol? would be pretty annoying to remove all the placeables to play a speaker
Sweet video!
Cool I'm goin to mod your box plans to fit in the trunk of my car that should be interesting
Hie ...there is something that i need to ask ....so when making an isobaric box we we half the internal volume that I understand, what about the port does it stay the same as it would be in a full sized volume box for one sub or it must be adjusted also?....
I'm actually sitting about 5 feet from a ported 18" cabinet that's almost exactly 6 cubic feet after accounting for driver and structural volumes :D tuned to approximately 27 Hz but it's for my bass guitar so that's plenty low, I had to downtune my 5-string 2 full steps to hit that low G at 24.50 Hz, and considering going lower since it's still quite loud and tonal. Might even go all the way to E0 (20.60Hz) on my B0 string since there's still enough SPL to hurt your unprotected ears
I too share the love for the low lows
Thinking about doing this with one pair in 1 cuft with a 12" passive, for a cheap space saver for my sedan. Just got to figure out what radiator..
I have Morel Octwin 5.2 home speakers with the 10" Isobaric loaded subwoofers and I can say these drop cleanly below 20Hz with ease!
I also love the fact that an Isobaric configuration also cuts the distortion level by half at the same frequencies.
I love isobaric subwoofers
I'm doing an isobaric build as well. Don't these need to be wired in phase. I'm confused now.
Another nice proj Toid.
I put 16 GRS-10SW-4s in 30 cubic foot wall tuned to 22hz on a Audiopipe APNK4001.
Dang!
This gives me crazy ideas to make subsonic noise😁 A tapped Horn with subs in an isobaric setup tuned to 11hz I wonder what driver's to use tho...🤔
Use some Skar SDR-18's
@@potatojake197 Yea maybe... Gonna simulate that tommorow morning in hornresp. I probably have to go for isobaric loading no matter wich driver's as i don't have much room.
@@kaedeschulz5422 If you don't have a lot of room maybe an 18" isn't a good option lol
Dude I got 8 6.5 on the yung 300 big box tuned to 50 it's insane
Would this be good for music bass or more for movie stuff?
Thanks for this video, it highly reminds me of a idea i had.... : -)
I build my own subwoofer years ago which is a isobaric single reflex type with 2x 10" speakers and a build in amp, it serves as a side table and weighs in at 55 Kg (121 Pounds)
The subwoofer manages to put out just a notch under 30Hz, it still makes for some unexpected moments when a low frequency sound effect in a movie kicks in.
I have two 12s d d 2000 watts what amp would be good for them but under two hundred.ty
Given two subwoofers, would switching the phase and driver direction within and between the cabinets usefully reduce mechanically induced distortion? This might be beneficial at extreme excursions though whether the ear is sensitive to it or not is another issue. Great channel! Thanks for another great video!
Isobaric already significantly reduces mech distortion as long as you don’t exceed mechanical xmax
Anyway to do this sealed or is the sound quality of the ported good? Want nice, tight, controlled bass.
What about building 2 boxes, each with 2 woofers and wiring them to the one amp? Could one then have the benefits of effectively having a pair of subwoofers with the benefits that brings?
You can definitely do that. I thought about doing it myself. The main benefit is being able to position your subwoofers so that you get smoother base response across a wider area.
Might shake my house but does it sound good?
Is it musical or a single note bass bomb?
What did you do to get WinISD to play nice with the specs of the driver? No matter what I do, it throws integrity errors and gives really odd graphs, other tools seem to have integrity issues as well. I was curious about comparing the standard variant to the high excursion variant, I was also curious about comparisons of the 8s, 12s, and 15s in both lines.
Liked instantly... I have been waiting for a subwoofer video! I am still looking for a reply about the RV Theater room.
Thanks Again....Carry on Toids.
Great video. Learned alot.
Some upgrades to the Dinas would be amazing!
Living in a small apartment, large builds tend to become a bit out of reach 😕
I N .... yeah, the other problem is trying to use it without the neighbor banging on the ceiling with a broom stick. (turn that !@#$ down!)
I have crown xls 1502 2pcs . I want to build reference series 8-10 inc subwoofer for music . What brand sub speaker do you particularly recommend for my project ?
I'm a believer. Isobaric loading, should be used more often.
Definitely should not be ignored.
Ok it's been a year... They still kicking ass😁
They are.
Nice!!! I have a very difficult question that i haven't find on google,... on a Woofer for a concert, like nexo, D&B Audiotechnik, HK audio, ETC, wich is the correct HZ tunning on a vented enclosure... Those brands, which are the Correct HZ tunned??? I have an 18+ Sound 18" inch 2000 Watt
Hi i have a mordaunt short subwoofer that used too work ok now it just sits there pulsing do you have any idea what could be wrong
How much power from the amp using four of these?
Power to the mighty woofer.
I use cerwin vega cva121 im in loveeee in this 21 inch booofer if i find another one in good price will buy
Would have likes to see some bassy music pumping thru those. Also maybe a shot of the windows shaking tooo. Great build otherwise perfect for a basshead 🙌🙌🙌🙌👍👍👍👍
How would the 12” version of the sub stack up? I have a pair of Dayton sub 1200s that I love but they don’t hit low enough for me. Would this be a worthwhile upgrade if I swapped the woofers out and used the same box / amp? Anything else that would
Give me an upgrade to that setup?
Unfortunately it wouldn't be a simple swap to get lower. However if you built this setup you should be able to still use the same amplifier.
This is great! Thank you!
So we want to build a "portable" box to make some raves outside. Are these suitable energy consumption wise?
I watched this and immediately thought it was too good to be true. But is it? Where would the high end subwoofer outperform this setup? How would the sound compare to a high end subwoofer? If you wanted to push it to the max what amplifier be? Are you using a DSP to get this flat curve? Awesome video!
No dsp. However if you want to dsp the low end for your room, check out my dsp-lf video. It's definitely a value buster subwoofer.
@@Toid Do you think a DSP could pull some ULF without damaging the subs? I would love a budget sub like this that could hit the emergency button of the brain😉
have you tried using this sub for music? or is this mostly for a home theater application
Hi can’t see then see the plans or the build page. I want to build one but i would like dimensions and the wiring diagram
Here’s a direct link: toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/iso-100-build-20hz-for-under-100/
@@Toid wow , thanks 🙏
why do you not use car 10s subwoofers which have big magnets?