Deere 220R Self Leveling Loader Proves itself! vs. Non-Self Leveling!
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- Опубликовано: 5 ноя 2020
- Tractor Time with Tim tests the 220R MSL loader. We'll compare the range of motion, as well as the lift capacity. The 120R MSL disappointed us with only a minor (if any) increase in lift capacity. Let's see if the 220R can make up for this!
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You need a commission on every compact tractor sold. I bet you have helped sell thousands by now. Thanks for another awesome video.
The 220R with MSL is pretty impressive 👍🏻, congrats on the new tractor Jason!
I was amazed at the lift capacity difference between the two. Impressive video and test results. Great job Tim and Christy! Blessings!
This was a great visual comparison between the two loaders. Thanks again for another awesome video!
Very informative. I appreciate all that time you boys took. Thank you
Good video Tim, interesting to see now that John Deere really screwed the pooch with the 120R. I've had about a month with my MSL now and could not see the logic in anyone buying a 220R NSL with a new tractor now. The same guy will likely try and scrutinize me again buy I'll say it anyway. It definitely brings some safety into to play, the level of the bucket/forks/hay spear is one less thing that I need to focus on since I am rarely alone when doing round bales and fork work. 49%, WOW!!!
I agree. The only possible advantage I could see with the NSL would be that for moving loose material, the NSL curls a bit more to secure the spoils a little better without dribbling. Tim just did another video recently showing the differences between loading the MSL vs NSL buckets with gravel.
This comparison along with the one series is great thank you 👍
Cool tractor Jason you’ll love it.
Good info for folks in teh market. Thanks for sharing!
Very intersting results.
Im looking at upgrading from my 1025r to a 2 series. And i wasnt looking at the msl, but now i am.
Great comparison guys!
For some reason I love the sound of a 2038r and 3032e at idle it just sounds amazing but both tractors did pretty good in my
Opinion
Impressive lift results! Almost off sets the lack of a full curl capacity. I'm pretty good at manually leveling my bucket / forks when lifting (my tractor allows lifting the boom and leveling the bucket at the same time) but I can see safety factor of the self leveling system for new operators
That's why I went this way. Lack of experience and my primary use being forks it seemed like a no brainer!
Great video. That’s my biggest complaint with my 2038r is the lift capacity. I put firewood in 330 & 275 IBC totes. And it can’t lift it with my forks. Maybe I should think about getting the self leveling loader.
Good stuff. Ballast immediately comes to mind. That is a lot of weight up high. Calling the Rimguard guy now 😃 With great power comes great responsibility...
Ha! Yea. Rimguard really helps the 2038r.
That would be OUTstanding... I have the H165 setup on my 3039R - I've love to have a self-leveling unit.
Tim I figured out why the msl lifts more!!! Look at the angle of the cylinder to the boom on both!! The msl has a wider stance than the nsl. Look at the triangle shape essentially!!! Which is also why it won’t quite lift as high
Tim I enjoy watching you and your family on this channel and I wished I had a need for 1025r and your dad would be proud of you that you still like to play with tractors and equipment and you'll always will be a farm boy
Thanks for the kind words!
manual says no more than 40% curl for backdragging, love the comparison videos Tim
Tim, you are geeking out way to much on the loader issue. Still a 👍
Ok, i think we are about done with this. ...but it was a MAJOR announcement. Big new product that we think folks will be interested in seeing.
Can you test the lift capacity of the 220 NSL and MSL using different attachments? such as pallet forks or other?
I guess the reason for the loader going faster near the top is pure physics. The loader arms are getting closer and closer to being vertical, and thus making it more of a vertical movement rather than a horizontal movement like it is in the beginning. It's like rising a flagpole. The higher it gets the less force you need to rise it.
Wow that's a big difference and the complete opposite with the 120r. Wonder if JD will alter the MSL 120r in the future or at least match it to the NSL 120r in capability.
Awesome video, I am torn between JD 3025e open station and the Bobcat 2025 w/cab both with loaders, close in price and dealer proximity. I am not a proponent of backhoes, prefer a stump bucket (save$$$). The bobcat has better ground clearance, ldr capacity and height. Biggest is the name and resale, primary use is snow removal so the cab is really enticing. See that you have bobcat loader but wish it was a 2025 tractor for your review, would make it easier to decide. Keep them coming, stay well, and God bless.
A 3025e isn't a very sought after tractor. I think it would be harder to sell than the deere's with an R. You can't even find a 2 or 3 series R deere now. All sold out. But if you are primary looking at snow and you can afford it a cab is the only way to go.
Wow! Did you do a graph comparison on the 120 loader? Looks like the engineering staff at Deere really put some effort in that design. Great Video Tim! Thanks.
Yes, in the 120r MSL vs. NSL episode.
I prefer the NON-self-leveling loader. If it needs to be leveled I will do it, but thanks for offering.
I have an MSL for a 4044R. My biggest complaint is the lack of curl compared to our old loader; we are constantly moving gravel and can't get the bucket filled to the same capacity as the NSL.
I'm waiting for a 320MSL...!
I would be really curious to see the turning radius compared between the 1 and 2 series Deere's, very similar to what you did with the comparison of the BX and 1- Series. I bought the 1-series because it is primarily a mower for me, and that turning radius makes it much nicer of a machine. I would love the taller tires on the rear, but do not want to sacrifice the turning radius in my yard.
I can tell you the front wheels turn as sharp it appears as the 1 series. The JDs at least turn the wheels more than some competitors. This was hard to find outside of Tim's testing. It's also why I switched my interest from 🍊 . That lift difference and turning radius swayed me.
Thanks! The turning radius was my main reasoning as well for going green! I just have a hard time imagining the 2 series can turn as well as the 1, just a matter of how big a difference.
@@kyleanderson5315 I went 2025r. No mower yet, but grapple, box blade, tiller and forks. When my mower is 3 or 4 years older, I'll get the 60d. I'm very happy.
2025r is similar radius only slightly more. The 2032/8r has a much larger turning radius.
Man those numbers look like more then self leveling Tim! Amazing the difference!! I adjusted the idle on 1025r so that could speak over it. I'm kinda thinkin that maybe should have went with 2038. I noticed that 2038 is a very nice machine. I do like 1025 allot though. Expecially after the idle adjustment. Thank you very much for your time and efforts on this and every video you take the time to make!!!!
I adjusted the idle on my first 1025r, but it made it vibrate so much worse. I think it contributed to my early air cleaner bracket failure. So, I have left the idle at factory on my later 1025r’s
Oh, and the 2038r is MUCH more tractor than the 1025r...in every way except for turning radius.
@@TractorTimewithTim thank you Tim!!!
I’d like an explanation from JD, telling us why in the Sub Compact Utility Series MSL Loaders lift substantially more weight that NSL Loaders, but when looking at the figures of the Five series MSL to NSL - the MSL Loader numbers are substantially less.
These videos are why I got a TTWT shirt and a sticker. Great content. Thanks for sharing this, Tim.
Thanks Greg!
Any chance your local dealer will let you borrow a 3e again with MSL to test!? I think if this one lived up to the specs I have renewed faith that the 300e might too! Thanks for the video!
Funny that I should see this just after I returned from my JD dealer. I was looking at a 2032R and we talked about this self-leveling loader. It looks like the self leveling feature adds about $2600 to the cost of a straight 220R. Looks like it might just be worth the difference.
I don't remember you addressing this but, when I inquired about the new radial tires, he informed me that they can't fill them with fluid without sacrificing most of the advantages of the tires. So, he priced in wheel weights with the tires. I already have the weight box.
Whatever. Rimguard is worth the money. You can still run low psi with Rimguard.
@@TractorTimewithTim - I contacted Carlisle Tire Co technical support. They informed me that putting fluid in these tires voids their warranty.
Tim, Very much enjoyed watching the test. Does Jason have more to mow than just the front yard shown?
Not right now LMAO. Back yard too but currently looking for land. House is very temporary!
Fully understand. Good luck with your search and maybe Tim can do an update in the future showing you and Tim at work on your new property. I, for one, will be interested; I think others may be too.
I agree the self leveling is much better on the 200 series.
Tim a thought that has occurred to me. Not sure if it applies to your 2 series, but on your 1 series you have a diverter for the grapple. This does cause a small amount of resistance (much like Ethernet every connector, bend, etc causes resistance). It would be interesting to run the test again without your grapple diverters plumbed in.
Hey Eric. This 1025r has the Deere third function.
The 2038r has the Artillian diverter.
We discussed this off camera with the following conclusion...
The diverter is only on the dump/curl circuit.
We are explicitly trying to avoid using the curl circuit in this testing...for simplicity reasons. We don’t want to introduce more complexity.
I’m thinking the diverter would not impact the boom lift characteristics. Your thoughts?
Diverter resistance may impact speed but not pressure and therefore not lift capability.
@@TractorTimewithTim Good point, I wasn't thinking about it only on curl function.
Hi Tim. There at about the 1:15 mark, when the buckets are at full height, it appears (on my small screen) that the MSL has a bit of the dump cylinders visible. Any idea if the bucket gains a bit of curl as lift height increases?
Hmm. I wasn’t driving it. It was supposed to be fully curled.
In the lift capacity portion, you can see that the bucket actually tips downward a bit at full height, so I don’t think you would see improved curl at height.
Also, the ‘waist high’ range is the important part. That is where we need the ‘shake shake’ to keep material in the bucket.
Just my thoughts.
I definitely defer to your experience. (That’s why I’m here!) Just asking because I’m curious. These eyes are easily deceived. 🙂
Wow that 220R MSL is a beast.. I never seen anything like it, the way it would just keep climbing when it seems it should have stopped. It’s deffinelty in the design of the FEL.. has to be.. do you know if the hydraulic rams are the same?
I believe they are...but not totally sure.
Interesting 🤔
Excellent information. This is just my opinion and nothing more and what i have seen from the tests provided: if you use mainly pallet forks or have less experience with a loader tractor, the self lever is the way to go. From what ive seen from the test, you'll sacrifice the amount you can carry in the bucket, but safer for less experienced operators. I would look at the non self leveler if you plan on mostly dirt and gravel work, but will have remember to level the bucket the higher you raise it. If you have the extra coin and are going to use your tractor daily, the ideal solution is Msl for the pallet forks and Nsl with a bucket. What's your opinions?
On the 120r, I agree. However, with the 220r,the increased lift capacity is enough to be relevant in the discussion. 50% increase in capacity!!! Wow.
@@TractorTimewithTim Bucket capacity of loose material would be what i look at when curling. The ability to lift more is always welcomed! I wonder if an oversized bucket would offset the the lack of ability to fully curl a full bucket load like the NSL loader. I would not of noticed a difference until you put them side by side. If you ha e an opportunity, how about a time trial on loading a truck with mulch or sand. That would be a test i think would factor in to the bigger picture. As you stated, MSL, more weight capacity. NSL, looks like more bulk capacity with same size bucket. Not trying to argue, just really intrigued.
We’ll show loose rock in a soon to be upcoming episode. It is definitely different. Much easier to get a bucket load with the nsl.
@@TractorTimewithTim Please also show use in that video with pallet forks unloading & loading off a truck & trailer.
Yesterday I lifted about 10, 10 inch Terra Cotta pots in by 120R bucket and had no trouble at all. I don't know the weight of them but I'm pretty sure their close to the load your lifting. Great information Tim, fun to watch. Did you try the same test with Jason's 2032R to see how much different the lift capacities would have been?
Yes. He has 2800 PSI pressure, so a bit more lift capacity than my 2038r. More so at the bottom of the lift range...not much more at full height. We didn’t introduce that topic in the video to avoid confusion.
So the lower HP machine had more lift capacity? Talk about confusing.
Would be identical lift capacity if the hydraulic pressures were set identically.
HP is not really relevant.
I have one for you Tim. I have a m59 kubota that has a self leveling button you push. It works well if you pull the lever all the way back, but if you feather the control it won’t work right. I love this feature by getting the best of both worlds. I just wish you could feather the control! Does deer offer anything like this?
Does that work going down too?
@@upandadam9080 works pretty good up and down, but if you move it really slow the curl won’t stay in line with the lift, up or down. But for moving dirt and stuff works great. I sometimes have delicate loads on and have to move extremely slow.
Is that a Limbinator saw I see on your shop floor? Are going to do a video on it sometime?
It doesn’t work well with Johnny 2. So we’ll have to use it with J5. Yes, we intend to show it. Limbsaws.com use code TTWT for a 5% discount.
Tim and Jason good comparison
God Bless All
PaK
Hi Tim how did the plastic work on the flooring in the new garage have a day love from TEXAS
still in process. "So much time, So little to do. Wait a minute...strike that....reverse it!" --- Willy Wonka
220r msl loader 👍
Thats a lot of tractor for such a small yard I hope he has somewhere to use that thing
Forgive my ignorance here, but at 3:10 the MSL loader can’t be manually curled a little bit further to handle a dirt load better?
We showed max curl...and you can see it by seeing that the cylinders are fully retracted.
@@TractorTimewithTim thanks Tim!
As much little problems I have having with my 1025r I’ll still keep my little Johnny
Do you have to change the mounting brackets to go to the MSL?
No.
Takes me 4 passes with my 6’ finish mower behind my Kubota 😂
It would have been cool to see if switching the loaders on the tractor would have had the same results.
His 2032r has 2800 psi. So, it has a bit more lift than our tractor. We did test it, but didn’t want got confuse this episode.
What is the price difference between msl and nsl
Someone commented above: $2600
(for future reference)
I'm guessing Mr Jason is single, OR he has an incredible wife, OR his wife is very satisfied with his huge.......
.....back yard. It's a wholesome channel so we'll go with back yard.
Married, AWESOME wife who is very into motorsports herself. Not one to sit by and watch she is a driver for sure.
How much more was the MSL option on the 2032R?
I do not know for sure. You should be able to use the build your own tool on the Deere site to determine this.
@@TractorTimewithTim I tried doing this but couldn’t find the option when building a 2032R on Deere.ca or even Deere.com.
I did find the link to build the 220R loader but it kept crashing each time on both websites. Maybe you might have some luck 🤷🏻♂️
Someone else commented "I guess it is worth an extra $2600”.
After using both loaders with the auto level would you have any hesitation on buying the self leveling loader? Or would you keep the one that does not auto level ? Do you find the quarks to be too much with the auto leveling loader? Thanks for you opinion on this .
For the 1025r, I would buy NSL.
For 2038r, I’m not sure...the increased lift capacity would be helpful!
Dear Santa....
Ironically enough… the 220R MSL loader lifts more in weight capacity than the 330R NSL loader. The two R series platform is far better than the current dated 3R series tractors.
Who would thunka?
Having both, I would strongly disagree.
Having said that, the ergonomics on the 2R are great.
The 3R has amazing turning radius, much more nimble than the 2R.
The 3R has much more pulling power than the 2R.
Yes, the 3R is quite dated, but it is an amazing tractor.
I would guess the self-leveling feature has the loader continuously in a bind and that's why it appears to hit a wall, then slowly work through it. That's why it moves so slowly.
As to why it has greater lift capacity, I would guess there are differences in the angles where the cylinders are connected or somethjng like that. Perhaps they had to make adjustments in those angles to give the loader enough oomph to work overcome the bjnd...
...but the 120r loader behaves differently.
...oh and I lifted all of those weights !!!
If I keep this up, I’ll be in great shape!! :-)
@@TractorTimewithTim lol. Glad you were up to the task. I hope you're feeling as well as it seems you are. I wonder why the two MSLs behave so differently...
So, let me see if I get it right.
The Non-self-leveling is like votes for Trump where they come in and stop at some point.
Self-leveling is like votes for Biden where they keep slowly trickling in until it jumps to the top.
IS that about right?
Yes. Keep counting (etc) until you win.
The terrible truth.
Are you better off than you were 2 years ago? SMH!!